In this conversation, Sabine and Leo unpack the meaning of a supposed Sun Simiao quote: "Wish for a small heart and a big gallbladder!" To understand the multiple layers of possible meanings, especially as applied to the physician and the ruler, we draw on the significance of "heart" and "gallbladder" in traditional Chinese medicine, classical philosophy, and literary and modern Chinese language.

• What does it mean when we describe a person as having a "small heart" or "big gallbladder" in Chinese?
• And in contrast, what does it mean to say the same thing in a Western language?
• How are associations about the liver and the gallbladder or "gall" possibly universal, and how do they differ?
• To what extent are these attributes of human personality inborn or cultivated?
• What is their connection to medical ethics?

We touch on Zhuangzi's "heart fasting," Xunzi's views on the gallbladder as a descriptor of human personality, Buddhist mindfulness and meditation, and even the qualities of decisiveness and presence as attributes of a good healer.

After listening to this episode, we hope you let us know your thoughts in our free discussion forum at FrolickingFish.com and consider joining us for deeper explorations by becoming a member of our Golden Koi School.