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Architecture With Heart: Carley Chastain on Equity, Community, and Global Inspiration
Episode 25316th October 2025 • The Zweig Letter • Zweig Group
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Vernacular is what you do when you can’t afford to get it wrong.

  • Carley Chastain

Episode Summary:

This episode of The Zweig Letter Podcast, hosted by Randy Wilburn and joined by marketing co-host Luke Carothers, traces Carley Chastain's unique path through the architecture profession. Carley, an emerging architectural professional at Marlon Blackwell Architects in Northwest Arkansas, shares how she was drawn to architecture not by tradition, but by curiosity, community, and a keen desire to make the built environment serve real people.

From Auburn University's Rural Studio—where students design and build for underserved communities—to Mass Design Group's healthcare infrastructure projects in Rwanda, Carley unpacks the transformative power of purpose-driven design. Her journey from Alabama to Montana, Boston, and Kigali has shaped her approach to design as one focused on social impact, community resilience, and equity. Listeners will gain perspective on how intentional architecture can shape lives, tackle rural housing and infrastructure gaps, and deliver facilities that truly respond to community needs.

The conversation also spotlights the next generation of AEC professionals prioritizing equity, resilience, and local advocacy. Carley's reflections offer valuable strategies for increasing diversity, retaining talent, and ensuring architecture's continued relevance for the future.

Key Takeaways:

  • Community-first Design: Purposeful engagement with local people and issues creates projects that are meaningful and sustainable—whether it’s rural housing or urban centers.
  • Tackling Obstacles Holistically: Carley’s experience on the $20K House and the Front Porch Initiative demonstrates how architects can identify and address systemic barriers like access to fire stations and insurance, not just building design.
  • Value of Diverse Experience: Exposure to international practice and local development, as well as cross-disciplinary networking, gives young professionals context and resilience—qualities vital for evolving the AEC industry.
  • Advocacy and Retention: To retain diverse talent, firms must foster strong community connections, empower staff with local resources, and invest in personal and professional development.
  • Importance of Public Health: Architecture’s role extends to building infrastructure that supports public health and preventive care—a lesson Carley saw firsthand with Mass Design Group in Kigali and current healthcare projects in Arkansas.

All this and more on this episode of the Zweig Letter podcast.

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Other episodes you'll enjoy:

From Specs to Stories with Cherise Lakeside

Bridging Design and Construction with Dan Crist

AI Transforming AEC with KP Reddy

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Transcripts

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On today's episode of the Zweig Letter Podcast, we're

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diving into the journey of a young architect who's

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reshaping what it means to design with purpose. Carley

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Chastain didn't take the straight path from Alabama

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to Montana, from Boston to Kigali,

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Rwanda. She's built homes, hospitals,

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and community hubs with one question in mind. How

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can design serve the people it touches? She's

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worked with international nonprofit leaders like Mass Design Group,

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learned from the celebrated Rural Studio program, and

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now brings that global perspective home, literally,

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to northwest Arkansas, where she's part of the team at

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Marlon Blackwell Architects. Carley is part of a

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new generation of professionals in the AEC space, people

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who are just as concerned with resilience and equity

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and community impact as they are with blueprints

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and budgets. So whether you're a young designer, a seasoned

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firm leader, or someone just curious about where

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architecture is headed, this conversation is for you.

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Welcome to the zweigletter podcast. Putting

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directly to you free of charge.

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The Zweig Letter Podcasts Elevating the Design Industry

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one Episode at a Time

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hey, folks, Randy Wilburn here from the Zweig Letter Podcast. Excited

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to be with you for another episode. We've got something really special for you today.

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We're joined by Carley Chastain from Marlin

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Blackwell Architects, along with my partner in crime, Luke

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Carruthers from the marketing department. I and he's a man about

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town on so many levels at zweigroup. Luke and Carley,

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it's so good to see you guys. How are you doing? I'm doing well, Randy.

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Thanks for asking. It's great to be here. Carley and I got the chance

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to connect earlier this year at the Mass Timber Design Conference at the University

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of Arkansas, and I was really impressed with her ability to

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connect passion and purpose with her work. So I'm really

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excited. I'll stop talking and let her talk. I'm

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just excited he's setting you up, Carley. He really did.

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Running around that Mass Timber conference with Luke was a delight

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because I'll tease a little bit of what I'd like to talk about. It's so

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important in the architecture space to know people who do

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other things than practice architecture. And I would consider Luke one of

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my favorite contacts within the industry. At large. And

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getting to talk to him about the work going on locally was

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fantastic. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great perspective that

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Luke brings to the table and Zweig Group in general as

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somebody that works on, not necessarily in the business,

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but on the business of architecture and design. It brings a

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different perspective and it can really be helpful to practitioners like

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yourself and your colleagues at Marlon Blackwell, as well as any

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of the other firms that Zweig Group comes in contact with. So, you

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know, I want to jump right into it because you have, you have a wealth

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of experience for such a young person. I want to ask you what

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first drew you to architecture and, and you know,

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specifically nonprofit community based work.

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That's a great question. I know a lot of people who grew up playing

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with LEGO sets or playing in sims and said, this is what I want to

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do with my life. I was not one of those people. I thought that I

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would go into psychology. I thought that I would go into

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forest management. There were a lot of different options on the table. But

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when I went to Auburn University and toured the architecture building,

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I was completely captivated by the energy. It wasn't

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like anything I'd ever seen. The buzz, the dedication, the

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purpose was, were signals to me that this was going to be

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more than just a job, more than just a 9 to 5, but

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something that could direct my life. And I mean,

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and Auburn has a really special program there. I

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would love for you maybe to kind of unpack your experience

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at Auburn specifically. I mean, you are in Arkansas

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now, but Auburn holds a special place in your heart.

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You know, for the time that you were there for school, but then also for

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all the things that you learned. Could you talk just a little bit about their

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program and why it is so important for people to learn about it?

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Yeah, I'd be happy to. For all your listeners out there that are Auburn fans

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or not, I want to give a quick war eagle,

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but Auburn University is known within the

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architectural department for a variety of incredible programs. Actually,

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the Urban Studio and the Rural studio are both

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5th year options for students completing the architecture program. In the

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Urban Studio, you go to Birmingham and work one on one with

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city planners and local architects to understand urban design. But in

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Rural Studio, you go out to Hale County, Alabama, which is one of

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the poorest counties in the entire US to engage

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in rural development practices and design build

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in which you and a team of typically

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three other fifth year students will be given a project

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brief for a local community project and work together

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to interface with the community and design and build a project for that community.

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And that really set the tone for what I viewed

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as the rest of my practice so far. Yeah,

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and was. So were you fully aware of those two

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options when you first started at the U of A, at the U of A

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program at the Auburn University program? I was only

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peripherally aware, actually. My parents are both big Auburn fans

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and raised me in Auburn shirts and Auburn

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rooms with Auburn songs on the radio. And

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I swore that I wouldn't go, actually. Sorry to say,

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I thought that, you know, what I really wanted was to go a little bit

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further afield. But when I saw that architecture department,

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I was captivated and wanted to do a little bit more

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research before I dove headlong into it and found out that

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Auburn Architecture was at the time rated one of the top undergrad

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programs for architecture in the country.

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And looking into it, realized that it was because of,

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you know, in no small part due to some of the programs that Auburn offers,

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including the two that I mentioned, as well as study abroad programs and other

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pretty incredible development opportunities. And so when I started,

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the idea of what I would do with my fifth year was impossibly distant.

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I wasn't quite sure where I would end up

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by year five. And in fact, couple years

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into it, started to wonder if this was the right thing.

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Because, you know, architecture school, like a few other undergraduate

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programs, really takes students that are used to a high

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school structure of here's an assignment that you need to deliver and I will give

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you a grade based off of how well you deliver this assignment. A good

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architecture program will upend that

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expectation and give students open ended questions

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to solve. And that flipped my world upside down.

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And I started to wonder like what this could actually look like in

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practice. And some of the more successful practices in

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Alabama, at least the ones that I was exposed to, were

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involved or served clientele

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that I think were typically doing really well for

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themselves. And that was not something

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that I found too interesting. I grew up

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in a world that was not particularly engaged with the

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design of our built environment. Even as much as, you know,

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the typical American will spend 90% of their time inside and we

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don't have a sort of a public understanding of how our spaces are

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designed or we don't participate in how our spaces are

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designed. Especially if you live in a single family home in a

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typical American town. And this whole world was

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completely new to me and I thought I was maybe a little bit out of

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place. I would ask my classmates like, do you have parents who do this?

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What do your parents do that was my number one question. I would ask all

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the classmates, what do your parents do? And a lot of them, they would say,

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oh, my, my parents are contractors or my parents are real estate

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agents. And I thought that I really was at

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some sort of disadvantage for not having sort of this prior

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experience with the way that this profession functions. And I

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was getting a little bit dissuaded from an engagement with the

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industry, right. Because how in the world am I supposed to engage

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in the culture that I knew with this profession that

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I've picked? And then one day we had a lecture at Auburn

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done by Michael Murphy, one of the co founders of Mass Design Group. And I

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thought, this is a new way of practicing that I hadn't

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been exposed to yet. And I wanted to stick with my

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program and apply to the Rural Studio, which engages in that

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community design aspect. And we have some incredible

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project briefs at the Rural Studio. And

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architects practicing from all over the world will come in and

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critique our work and talk to us about our projects and tell us, you

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are so lucky to be doing something like this. I wish I was doing something

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like this. And I would always think, okay, but how

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would I be able to do work like this when I leave? Because I'm on

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the receiving end of a brief. But that doesn't mean that as an architect I

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know how to go out and get that work. So I was always fascinated

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with what not just what the students were doing at Rural Studio, but what the

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staff were doing because they were the ones working behind the scenes over the

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summer throughout the year to interview clients to

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understand pre existing conditions. Do you own your land?

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Do you have infrastructure? Do you have sewer? Do you have

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wastewater? Do you have plumbing? And then filtering that information

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to then set up the students for success when we got there. And

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I thought if I didn't understand how that process worked, then I

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was potentially doomed to practice

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on the receiving end in which I wasn't playing an active

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role in how projects get decided or what projects are needed. I would only

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ever be downstream of what someone else wanted. And that's not to

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say that that's a bad thing, but I wanted a broader view

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of how development work and how construction work happens,

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not only in the US but in other countries. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

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I love that. Luke, were you going to say something? No, I was going to

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say it's. So one of the things that I was particularly interested

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going into this interview is that you clearly have

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a passion for the built environment. Not specifically

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just architecture, but kind of the interconnected nature of it. So one of the

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things I was interested in was what was the space that made you

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understand or want to engage with architecture in the built

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environment. So it's very interesting to me that you

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entered it not through a family connection or something when you were

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young. It was a physical space when you were visiting a college, which I

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think speaks to the power of the Auburn Design Studio. But it's a nice

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bookmark for this conversation or bookend that. Our first

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conversation took place in the Fay Jones Design Building

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at the University of Arkansas, which is personally my favorite space. That made a

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lot click for me. So I just think it's a really interesting

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genesis point for a career. Yeah, I agree, I

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agree. And so because I kind of see where you're going, Carley,

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with how you're describing your experience. So what I want to do is maybe

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just quickly unpack that experience specifically with

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the Rural Studio before we jump into Mass Design Group, because it sounds

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like the Mass Design Group was really what laid the foundation for

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you and to have the experience on the front end that you talked about

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of looking at things from a developer perspective, from

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a Genesis perspective, as opposed to the just the receiving end

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of hey, we need you to design something. Right? And that's. There's a little, there's

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a difference there. But one of the projects and you shared it with me and

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we'll put a link on the in the show notes for this. But tell us

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about the $20,000 house project from Rural Studio.

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What was it like to design and build that? Oh

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man, talk about in over your head. So for folks

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doing their doing their homework and doing some research, I would always encourage

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people to look up some visual support media for

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these sort of conversations. The what was once known as the

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20k house project has now been rebranded to the Front porch

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initiative because 20k is really

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exciting. I would love to spend 20k on a house,

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but in this day and age, 20k on a house means that you end up

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in a cardboard box, maybe with a septic system. And that was. That

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was born out of conversations when this program first started. So this

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is a subset program of the Rural Studio. Rural

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Studio will often deliver project briefs to its

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students as either community projects that

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may be sort of singular projects unto themselves

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in communities surrounding Hale county and the surrounding counties.

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We also have a long running research project which is

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the formerly known as the 20K House Project, now known as the Front Porch

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Initiative, which is a bit of a research project in

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which they started building single family homes in a rural setting back in

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2001, with the goal of competing

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with local prices for a trailer, perhaps.

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Right. So trailers will depreciate in value the second you walk off with them.

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But a house will allow someone to develop equity in the land

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that they own or equity in the community that they live in.

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So, using design principles, material

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selection, and radical reconsideration

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of the way that housing is delivered in a rural

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setting, the Rural Studios Front Porch Initiative strives

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to examine obstacles to home ownership

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in rural communities. So one of my favorite stories about the

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Front Porch Initiative is actually a project that's not

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in the Front Porch Initiative at all. It's actually the fire station

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in New Bern, Alabama. Because during this process

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of building homes for people in this rural community,

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the team discovered the other obstacles to

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homeownership, such as fire insurance. And

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insurance prices for the homes in these areas were exorbitant because the

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closest fire department was a 25 minute drive away. And

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they realized that to better the

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community and bring everybody that much closer to attaining

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homeownership and equity was to build a volunteer fire station.

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And that is so exciting to understand the

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systems at work and the challenges that you're trying to address on a community level.

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The fact that Rural Studio would have the bandwidth, the foresight

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to say, if we're going to keep doing housing for individuals,

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we need to provide community infrastructure. It's one of my favorite

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projects. It's so fantastic, like, from a material standpoint and a detailing

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standpoint, but also from like a systems standpoint. It works on so

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many different levels. And I love, I love going by there anytime I'm in New

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Bern. In New Bern now. Is New Bern part of Hill County?

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Yes. Newburn is a part of Hale County. Okay. The Rural Studio

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program is headquartered. Yeah. And just north of us

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is Greensboro, which is the county seat and where many

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students, including myself, end up finding lodgings. Yeah.

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So, you know, it's funny, not that you blew my mind, but you did say

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something that I honestly never thought about the proximity of a fire

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station in relationship to the cost of

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insurance and things of that nature. And the reason why I'm not thinking of it

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like that is because where I live here in Fville, literally on the

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next block is my fire station. So I mean, it. They. They would

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be at my house before I hung up the phone, right? Oh, yeah. And you

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never, you take those things for granted that especially in rural areas,

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that could be a real issue. And then of course, you got the insurance cost.

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Insurance is already expensive, let alone adding to the Fact that. Oh,

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well, because you're. You're so far away from the local

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fire department, we've got to charge you more or we

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can't insure you. Yeah. Like this is cost prohibitive. Like,

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you think that you have saved up what you need to start a construction loan

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for your dream house, and it turns out your insurance cost

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is going to be like 25% of your monthly payment on your

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mortgage. Wow. Yeah. And, you know, not to skip too much in the

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chronology, but I'm working on a project right now in a rural setting in another

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state where a huge consideration is water.

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Like, we have to meet code requirements for fire suppression. Given the client that we're

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working with, and the local water Source is at

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98% capacity. What do we do? Do we drill? A test

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drill, cost $20,000? Do we talk with water association? Do

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we build fire or water tanks, water towers? What's in our

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budget? What do we need to do? Like, rural projects in and of themselves are

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so much more complicated than

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people give them credit for. And I think it takes a particular kind of

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practice to be able to engage in some of those. My boss, Marlon,

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has a saying that he sort of passes around the office, which

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is, you know, we talk about vernacular. Right. Because vernacular is really important

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to building in rural settings. And what said is

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vernacular is what you do when you can't afford to get it wrong. Yeah,

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I like that. But your original question

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was about the Front Porch initiative. And, you know, to kind of

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maybe bring in some narrative conclusion on that. That was

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my project brief when I was there with my team is we did the

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21st version of a. What was known

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then as a 20k home. We did a two bedroom home in

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adjacent Perry County, Alabama, for a local

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client there who owned land that had been

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subdivided from, I believe, a father or a grandfather

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who had lived on the land before him. Wow. And correct me if I'm

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wrong, but one of the parts of the initiative is that these

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homes can be replicated. That there is like

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that those blueprints can be used Exactly. For another project. They often

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are. Yeah. They took the house that we designed

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while we were there, and they have replicated it a few times since. They

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built it to a different energy standard in

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Opelika, Alabama, which is outside of Auburn, with, I believe

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it was Habitat for Humanity. And then they used that house

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to run energy tests and see how it stood up.

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Part of the question that the program asks is, you know, as

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architects, we're only one step in the process and

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receiving a Brief. Designing the project, documenting it

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and issuing construction documents are what you

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may view as sort of the typical scope of work of an architect on a

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residential project. If we're involved in a residential project at all, it's pretty rare because

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by code we don't have to be. But the second those plans leave our hands

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and go into the hands of a contractor, what are prevailing practices in

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the area? What are local resources in the area? What is

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the comfort of the different trades that practice in that area with taking

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those plans and saying, go above and

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beyond and tape every seam and seal

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every joint so that the house is airtight and meets

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particular standards to provide, you know, miles

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of energy efficiency over what you may typically see in a. In a neighborhood

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of spec homes in a development in a town like

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Opalika, Alabama. I love the iterative nature of your

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experiences with this because one thing has kind of built on another

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to inform. It seems like maybe how you even approach design,

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right, as an architect, like 100% so.

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And from that vein, I'd love for you maybe to talk a little bit

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about how your experience, specifically as you

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moved on from the Rural Studio, your experiences with Mass Design

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Group and your time in Kigali kind of shaped your approach to

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design. Oh yeah. So, you know, I

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mentioned earlier that I kind of had this desire to see what was going

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on outside of my state. I wanted to get context. I

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remember writing actually a scholarship application while I was in school that, you know,

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ultimately I wanted to leave home and

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study and get context. This sort of feeling of being,

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you know, from outside the industry compelled me to go get some

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context. And I wanted to leave the state, maybe leave the country, get

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some experience and bring it home. And the first

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opportunity that I got to do so would love to, you

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know, plug and shout out here to the Hundredfold Studio in

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Kalispell. Not in Kalispell, the Hundredfold Studio in

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Lakeside, Montana. They run a beautiful practice

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that engages in nonprofit architecture. And they were

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my first experience with a really intentional practice that

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engages in the education of staff and

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mission aligned architecture. So the premise of the practice

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is that is a community oriented nonprofit and

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they choose what they work on. And often their most

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common partner at the time, I believe was YWAM Youth with a Mission.

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So they had a partnership with a larger organization and a really

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incredible dialogue in which they would talk about what the

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organization needed at home or abroad and

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work to make sure those needs were met. So the project I worked on there

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at the time was for a local community center for ywam

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in Lakeside. So the job site was like

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a couple hundred yards from the door of the office.

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Incredible. And the offices of the people running the community center

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were a couple hundred yards from the front door of the office. And it was

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so hyperlocal in such a beautiful space. And all of those things were

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intertwined. And I got to work there for about five months,

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working to learn energy modeling

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and energy analysis programs so that the

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projects that we built for people served them as best as possible.

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And then while I was there, did some phone

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interviews and accepted a fellowship program. My next

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fellowship program with a nonprofit architecture firm, Mass

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Design Group. And from Montana, went back to Alabama

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and packed a new set of bags because, if you can imagine, I didn't really

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need my ski jacket in Rwanda.

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Yeah, different weather. Exactly. So I had to swap out my ski

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jacket for breezy shirts, cotton.

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And I think I packed a suitcase in a backpack

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and went to Boston for some

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initiation training to. Because that's where Mass

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Design Group is based, right? That's right. That's right. Their

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American headquarters is in Boston, and then their

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Rwandan headquarters is in the capital city, Kigali. And

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in the Boston office, I'm sure things have fluxed

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quite a bit. And they now have a few different satellite offices throughout the country.

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But in the Boston office, I think it was maybe something like 10 to 20

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people. But in the Kigale office, it's a

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multidisciplinary office of folks from

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many different countries. And they were, you know, over a hundred people

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when I worked there in 2018. Okay. How

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long were you there? I was there for 14 months. Wow. Wow,

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that's exciting. Luke, you got a question? Yeah, no, I was going to say, like,

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I. I love that you mentioned that desire for context.

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And Randy, you mentioned the iterative experience of your education.

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And I'm really curious, and I think Randy is too. You go across

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the world. What brings you back to the South? What made you take a

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chance on Martin, On Marlon Blackwell? Oh, man.

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Working for Marlon Blackwell is not necessarily

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a chance I took on him, but probably more of a chance he took on

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me. I came into his firm

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with about two years of experience in non

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traditional nonprofit work. When I worked at Maas,

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working in Kigali, we were completely local.

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Working within the political

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infrastructure within Rwanda necessitated

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local solutions, you know, politically and economically. What are you going to

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do? Import aluminum storefront from

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Kenya on your hospital project? No, we. We would

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fabricate windows and doors on site. And so what that looked like, you know, from

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a get like Technical here for a second. We would do

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fabrication drawings of windows and doors. So in my

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time there, I never saw a specification book, a project

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manual, and that's completely core to practicing

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in an American environment. So even though I had a couple years of experience,

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that didn't necessarily equate to a couple years of experience of someone who'd been

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practicing in the U.S. now, I had quite

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the aura of someone who was willing

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to hop around and learn

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and take chances and dive into things, but had a

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little bit of catching up to do. And so diving into the

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practice at MBA was fascinating

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because in my five years working here, we're not

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just, you know, a local firm here in Fayetteville, though we

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are. We're really, really proud to be a local firm in Fayetteville. I've had friends

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who've gone on and coworkers who've taken other opportunities, and they

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report back, like, I miss the systems at

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Marlon Blackwell architect's office. Like, the way

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that we're able to, like, organize and vet and discuss and

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design is incredibly unique, and I'm so, so

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lucky. Like, all these experiences that I had in Alabama

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engendered this, like, real, like, sense of importance in local, local

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design. Alabama, Montana, Kigali. When I worked

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in Alabama, I worked in my community. When I worked in Montana, I worked in

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my community. When I worked in Kigali, same thing. I

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worked on a design project where we were doing a biomedical

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center, a center of excellence, and took that through design. And then they

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told me to switch gears while they were trying to figure out how to get

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that project off the ground. And I was going to go work construction administration on

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a local hospital. And every day, I'd get on the back of a motorcycle and

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drive to site and inspect the fabrication of those windows and doors I

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talked about and try to solve problems that came up as we went

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along. And, you know, I left Kigali, unbeknownst to

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me, right before COVID broke out, but the hospital had just opened, and I got

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news that that hospital was one of the first to serve the first

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COVID patients in Kigali. And that was. That was crazy. That

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was so important to me. And so coming to, you know, Marlon

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Blackwell's firm here in Fayetteville, he's known within

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the profession for understanding

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local traditions and local materials. And I was like, there's no

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other way for me to do this at this point. So it's.

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It's got to be this. I was like. I said I wanted to, you know,

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get context, and then Come back. And so I had a list of firms in

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the south, and Marlon had just

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won the gold medal for American

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practice from the American Institute of Architects. And,

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yeah, he's kind of a big deal.

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Yes, he is. Yeah. I mean, we've. We've had. I mean,

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we're. We've kind of have. When it comes to architectural design in northwest

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Arkansas, because that's actually where we're all sitting as we record

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this. We kind of have an embarrassment of riches of design

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professionals in this area. And, I mean, you think about Fay

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Jones and his impact, and, I mean, he sat under

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the man, Frank Lloyd Wright. And so, you know, I mean, I just

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think that there is a. People don't. You know, I know Arkansas is kind of

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a flyover state, but there's a lot happening here, and there's a lot of cool

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design work emanating throughout the world that starts right here

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in Arkansas. So I think that's. That's worth mentioning.

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So I guess. Oh, my gosh. No, it's. It's true. No, so that. Actually, I'm

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glad you brought that up, because when I was looking at different firms that are,

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like, well known in the south for the kinds of practices that they

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do and the projects that they produce, I got wind that

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a lot of different, you know, firms here were aiming to

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get on the design excellence list in northwest Arkansas.

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And I thought, like, I'm really lucky, really, really lucky

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to have ended up here, because from what I can tell, if I

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was at another firm, we might just be doing work here anyway. Right.

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But now I get to be a part of that community and a part of

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that legacy. Like, no one has connections. Like Marlon Blackwell,

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architect staff has connections. That's not just Marlon. And he's so well

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connected. He's, you know, been invested in this community for 33 years.

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But, like, the staff he retains, like, we have so many

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talented Arkansans in this office

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whose dad's neighbor knows a guy

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who can, like, give us some insight as to, you

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know, who to talk to at the city about this project under development. Right. And

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that's so important. Yeah, it is.

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So you've mentioned a couple of things I want to go back to real quickly

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before we move on the hospital in Kigali. Now, you

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mentioned earlier in the podcast that because you didn't come from a

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traditional background, that a lot of your peers did when you were matriculating through

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Auburn, you know, maybe their parents were real estate agents or

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contractors or so on so forth, but now your family has a Healthcare

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background, Is that correct? How did that

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impact when you worked on healthcare projects, especially that hospital

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in Kigali, did that impact in any way, shape or form inform you

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in terms of how you approach to the design, given that

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you have some familiarity with others that have, you

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know, worked in that system? It's such a good question.

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So when I say that my family has, you know, background in healthcare,

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my dad works in pharmacy. My mom is in marketing for a

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toxicology company. My sister, big shout out

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to Dr. Chastain. She just entered into her residency program in North

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Carolina. Bravo. I know. Big snaps. That's

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exciting. Dr. Castane. My uncle is my dentist.

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My brother's going into a mental health program

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for counseling. And so my background,

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or any sort of exposure that I had, actually had to do more with individual

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practitioners of healthcare of maybe

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diagnosis and treatment. Working for Mass

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Design Group, specifically for the Global Health

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Core Fellowship, meant that I was introduced for the

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first time to public health, which was a foreign concept to me,

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but it was perfect because public health has to do

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with the infrastructure of our healthcare system, and

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architecture is the infrastructure of our built environment. So there are

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individual practitioners, right? Folks on the call, folks

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who are individually engaged within the system, but then

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there's the system itself. So it's, you know, to sort of

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parallel the conversation. Healthcare is not just about

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diagnosis and treatment, but about evaluating the systems in which we

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live to promote holistic preventative care.

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And that was such an interesting learning experience

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because again, right after I moved to Arkansas, Covid breaks

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out and all these conversations that I've been having and learning about

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our public health systems, which is, how are

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vaccines available and administrated? What's messaging around vaccines?

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What are our rules and guidelines for how we conduct

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ourselves in a public space in order to limit transmission of what might be

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a viral disease, really, really moved to

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the spotlight. And the job that I was hired to

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do at mba, the project that I was hired to staff was

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the Heartland Whole Health Institute here in northwest. Arkansas, which is how

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appropriate. I know, man. I'm like, I can't get away from this.

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I told them. I was like, you know, I told my family, love that you

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guys are in healthcare. That's not my thing. I'm gonna go do buildings.

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And then, of course, lo and behold, I'm on hospitals and

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community health centers and health

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institutions and having such interesting conversations

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about each of our individual practices within the context in which we

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practice. Yeah, well. And for the uninitiated that are listening to

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this podcast and other parts of the country. The whole health institute is

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certainly a beacon of light here in northwest Arkansas.

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It is part of the Alice Walton School of Medicine.

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There is a whole bigger program that's happening because

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northwest Arkansas is one of the fastest growing MSAs in the country.

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And so that's. We have needs for a little bit of everything.

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And when you have, thankfully, one of the richest women in the

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world in Alice Walton that sees a need in health care and wants to fill

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that need right in the backyard where she grew up, makes a huge difference. And

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it creates opportunities for people like Carley and for Marlon

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Blackwell Architects, as well as any other design firm that's in

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this area, as well as those that are in other parts of the country that

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are coming here to work and finding opportunity to be a part of

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the built environment right here in our own backyard.

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And I think we should also mention that it is one of the most beautiful

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structures in a place that has a lot of beautiful structures.

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It is truly breathtaking. It's like they keep trying to outdo themselves.

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Every time I look up, I can't wait to see the finish of Crystal

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Bridges, which is our outstanding museum, because

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they're just doing a whole nother expansion of it. But yeah, every time I look

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up, there's. I mean, there's, you know, what they always say is the indicator of

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the health of a city or an area are the number of

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cranes that you see in the air. And at one

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point I lost count after seven cranes in downtown

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Bentonville not too far back. So, yeah, that's always a

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good sign when you see that right here in northwest Arkansas. So

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it's funny you say that. There was a report that I

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read and was integrating into a write up for another project we did

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the ledger in downtown Bentonville that

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stated that Bentonville has the highest cranes per capita of any city

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in the U.S. yeah, yeah. I mean, I think they overtook Miami or

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someplace like that. So it's pretty. It's pretty impressive. So

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insane. Yeah. Wow. I mean, there's so many different directions we

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can go, but I want to find a place where we can land this and,

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and be respectful of the amount of time that you've given us. We're so

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thankful for this. There are a couple of things that you said that I wanted

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to kind of piggyback on because as a young design professional,

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I think it's important for your peers to hear this, but I would love

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for you to share your thoughts on how you see the role of

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architects evolving in the next 10 years. What do you think

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is possible for your profession. Right.

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That will keep people in the profession, because there

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are some that are leaving the profession for a

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variety of reasons. And that's one of the things that, as I've worked at Zweig

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Group over the years, I was always alarmed by, because we need design

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professionals. You know, engineers, architects, environmental consultants, planners,

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construction management. We need all of those folks. We don't need anybody leaving

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the profession. But I would be curious to know from your

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perspective, Carley, where do you see the role of architects

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evolving in the next 10 years? Or what do you hope for? Oh,

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man, I know that's a lot. That's a huge question. Okay.

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So in my head, I'm like, sort of splitting this into two, actually different

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questions, because, like, where do I hope the profession goes

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Might actually be a little bit different than, like, the

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health of the profession right now. So the question of retention

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is really important to me as a woman in the industry,

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because I think recently we passed a milestone,

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this might have been a couple of years ago, in which more than 50%

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of architecture graduates from an undergraduate program. Over

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50% of them are women. And, you know, I think

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we've seen some of the instances of

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opportunities that exist in this space, especially through

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programs like Elevate her and others that are really

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making it a point to highlight women in the design

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profession at every level and every vocation.

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And so I think it's important for us to kind of have that conversation. Right.

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Because, you know, you've talked about so many different things that you've

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experienced in your short time in the industry, and you've. I mean, you've.

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You've lived the lives of a couple of architects in this short time, and you

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still got a ways to go. So it's like. I know. You know. Yeah.

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I mean, it's. Yeah. So it's like you got to be excited about what the

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future holds. And especially I'm excited just hearing your story,

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because if more architects get to experience what

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you've experienced in such an early period in your

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profession, then there really is a lot of hope for where the design

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industry is going in the future, you know, And I don't

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want to answer your question for you, but it's just an outside observer looking

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on the inside of what I've seen interacting with so many design

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professionals around the country. Around the world, for that matter. Yeah,

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absolutely. And so I think what I've done

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is capitalize on a privilege afforded

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to me by the status of my family

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and the ability to go to school and Then the ability again

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to use income driven repayment plans on my student

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loans to go and make $600 a month at a

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nonprofit firm for four months. Because I can

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and I did those non traditional experiences

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in order to explore different opportunities and then

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transitioned into what is now a more traditional, salaried,

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professional trajectory within the firm that I work in at the, in the U.S.

Speaker:

but from like a broader standpoint, that's not going to be everyone's experience.

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And the field can really do a number on you in

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the early years. So the stat that I wanted to look up and not misquote

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is that over 50% of architecture graduates are women, but

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only between maybe 17 to 23% of licensed

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architects are women. So in those years between getting out of school

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and getting the license that will allow you to practice

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yourself or capitalize on opportunities within a firm

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where you're employed, women drop off. And that's important

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because we need a diversity of life experiences to

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design the environment that we're living in. You need people from different

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backgrounds, socioeconomic backgrounds,

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racial backgrounds, gender backgrounds to engage in this profession

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because we are handing other people the built environment. We live in a

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specialized economy where we're all trying to do our part

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to make life easier for us collectively. And

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if we're delivering, one note, spaces to an increasingly

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diverse population here in the US then architecture

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will continue to lose relevancy to the general

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public and we will only ever be a profession

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that is dialed in and caters to

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the rapidly reducing number of people who can afford our services.

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Okay. So the future that I look to is

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one in which we have a diverse workforce

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that has advocacy, the local, state and

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national level, for the relevancy of our services,

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the health of the built environment, and,

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you know, well designed policies and

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planning for the spaces that we live in. Yeah,

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I was curious from. I love that, that

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when we talk about the future, you frame that from the perspective of retention

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recruitment. And retention is, is what we do at Zweigroup. And so

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I, I wanted to hear that question from the framework

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of if you're speaking to a firm leader that's trying to

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recruit young, passionate architects, you're not alone. There are

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other people that care and they care very much. So

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if you're speaking to a firm leader, how would you tell them to recruit and

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kind of widen that net? Oh, man. So I've

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never had to face the challenge of recruiting someone else. I've always been on the

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receiving end of that. And so speaking to the receiving end,

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I would want to see Firm leaders that are engaging within their local

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community, that, you know, keep relationships with

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people, maybe at the city level or the local level, that know the

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phone number of the lumberyard. And that when I come into your

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firm, I can be equipped with those same resources to get good work done.

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That's huge. As well as being able

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to develop incoming work, a pipeline of

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work that continues to benefit and

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build in that local community for the people that I care

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about, my neighbors. Doing good work. Well, detailed,

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attentive, not necessarily expensive, but intentional

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and well crafted. Acknowledging that architecture is a

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field, a very, very broad field involved in

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coordinating with a lot of different professions, and that it sort of takes

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understanding and maintaining relationships with those different

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professions to continually forward the quality of work

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that we do. Yeah, that makes. I mean. I mean, I hear everything you're saying.

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You add personal professional development to it, a strong mentoring

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program. There are a number of things that a firm can do, all of

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which I know you're getting at. Marlon Blackwell. You know, these are. These. It's

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clear. And that makes a huge difference. And I tell firm leaders all the time,

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time. It's not rocket science, but you have to be

Speaker:

intentional about making sure that those things are happening and

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making sure that it's not an afterthought. Because a lot of times people just

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try to bolt something on, and we all know what happens when you bolt

Speaker:

something on that wasn't originally tended to be part of a structure. It

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doesn't usually last. From the

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beginning. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, man, this has

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been good. Carley, if anybody listening to this wants to

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just connect with you or get in touch with you, maybe another young professional,

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young peer that's heard this and was really encouraged by what you've shared

Speaker:

and what your experiences have been up to this point. As a

Speaker:

design professional, what's the best way for them to get in contact with you? Well,

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that's a great question. My email is

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C A r l e yrlin Blackwell.com

Speaker:

and you can talk to me there, and I will answer any

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sort of questions of that nature. What's going on? How's work?

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We want to get a coffee. Yeah, I love that. If they're local. If they're

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not local, just reach out to her. She might even get on a zoom call

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with you and have a conversation. But I suspect that you'll probably see

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Carley speaking at events somewhere, whether

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on either coast or somewhere in the middle of the country at some point in

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time about her experiences. Because, guys, we just scratched

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the surface of what this young lady has been able to do in the design

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industry in a short period of time. And so I'm just

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excited because if Carley represents what the design industry

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can look forward to with design professionals, we're in good hands.

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So, Carley, I just. I wish you nothing but continued success. And I'd

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like to. I don't want to put a period here, but I want to put

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a comma, because I want to come back at some point in time and continue

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this conversation on, because I know you're going to continue to do some great stuff.

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So that is so kind. Thank you very much for having me and.

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Absolutely. Conversations. This is a really, really wonderful

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opportunity for me to reflect on work and, you know,

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realign what I'm doing even today. Yeah. Well,

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I appreciate that. And be sure to share this episode with Marlon. With Marlon when

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it comes out, or I'll. I'll. I'll send it to him because I do know

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Marlon. So, yeah, I've had a chance to. I've had the pleasure of sharing a

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stage with him, but he's an outstanding individual, a wonderful human being first

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and a great architect, so that's a good combination to have.

Speaker:

So anyway, Carley Chastain, thank you for joining us

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today on this White Glitter podcast. We really appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate you

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guys. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much, Carley. Yeah, for sure. For

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sure. Luke, thank you for joining me again. As always, I appreciate you

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running it back with me to have another great conversation with another great

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design professional. I think we're going to go ahead and wrap it up here.

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I'm Randy Wilburn, the host of the zweigletter podcast, along with my

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colleague Luke Carruthers. We're excited that you're joining us here. Remember, this

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White Glitter podcast can be found on every major podcasting platform,

Speaker:

including YouTube. If you want to learn more about Zweig Group, please

Speaker:

Visit us@zweiggroup.com you can also

Speaker:

subscribe for free to the Zweig Letter newsletter, which

Speaker:

comes out every Monday, rain or shine. I'm your host, Randy

Speaker:

Wilburn, and we'll see you back here soon with another

Speaker:

zweiglettr podcast. Peace. Thanks

Speaker:

for tuning in to the zweigletter podcast. We

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hope that you can be part of elevating the industry and that you can

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apply our advice and information to your daily

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professional life. For a free digital subscription to the

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Zweig Letter, Please visit the zweigletter.com

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subscribe to gain more wisdom and inspiration, in addition

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