Episode Summary:
This episode of The Zweig Letter Podcast, hosted by Randy Wilburn and joined by marketing co-host Luke Carothers, traces Carley Chastain's unique path through the architecture profession. Carley, an emerging architectural professional at Marlon Blackwell Architects in Northwest Arkansas, shares how she was drawn to architecture not by tradition, but by curiosity, community, and a keen desire to make the built environment serve real people.
From Auburn University's Rural Studio—where students design and build for underserved communities—to Mass Design Group's healthcare infrastructure projects in Rwanda, Carley unpacks the transformative power of purpose-driven design. Her journey from Alabama to Montana, Boston, and Kigali has shaped her approach to design as one focused on social impact, community resilience, and equity. Listeners will gain perspective on how intentional architecture can shape lives, tackle rural housing and infrastructure gaps, and deliver facilities that truly respond to community needs.
The conversation also spotlights the next generation of AEC professionals prioritizing equity, resilience, and local advocacy. Carley's reflections offer valuable strategies for increasing diversity, retaining talent, and ensuring architecture's continued relevance for the future.
All this and more on this episode of the Zweig Letter podcast.
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On today's episode of the Zweig Letter Podcast, we're
Speaker:diving into the journey of a young architect who's
Speaker:reshaping what it means to design with purpose. Carley
Speaker:Chastain didn't take the straight path from Alabama
Speaker:to Montana, from Boston to Kigali,
Speaker:Rwanda. She's built homes, hospitals,
Speaker:and community hubs with one question in mind. How
Speaker:can design serve the people it touches? She's
Speaker:worked with international nonprofit leaders like Mass Design Group,
Speaker:learned from the celebrated Rural Studio program, and
Speaker:now brings that global perspective home, literally,
Speaker:to northwest Arkansas, where she's part of the team at
Speaker:Marlon Blackwell Architects. Carley is part of a
Speaker:new generation of professionals in the AEC space, people
Speaker:who are just as concerned with resilience and equity
Speaker:and community impact as they are with blueprints
Speaker:and budgets. So whether you're a young designer, a seasoned
Speaker:firm leader, or someone just curious about where
Speaker:architecture is headed, this conversation is for you.
Speaker:Welcome to the zweigletter podcast. Putting
Speaker:architectural engineering, planning and environmental
Speaker:consulting advice and and guidance in your ear, Zweig
Speaker:Group's team of experts have spent more than three decades
Speaker:elevating the industry by helping AEP
Speaker:and environmental consulting firms thrive. And these
Speaker:podcasts deliver invaluable management, industry
Speaker:client marketing, and HR advice
Speaker:directly to you free of charge.
Speaker:The Zweig Letter Podcasts Elevating the Design Industry
Speaker:one Episode at a Time
Speaker:hey, folks, Randy Wilburn here from the Zweig Letter Podcast. Excited
Speaker:to be with you for another episode. We've got something really special for you today.
Speaker:We're joined by Carley Chastain from Marlin
Speaker:Blackwell Architects, along with my partner in crime, Luke
Speaker:Carruthers from the marketing department. I and he's a man about
Speaker:town on so many levels at zweigroup. Luke and Carley,
Speaker:it's so good to see you guys. How are you doing? I'm doing well, Randy.
Speaker:Thanks for asking. It's great to be here. Carley and I got the chance
Speaker:to connect earlier this year at the Mass Timber Design Conference at the University
Speaker:of Arkansas, and I was really impressed with her ability to
Speaker:connect passion and purpose with her work. So I'm really
Speaker:excited. I'll stop talking and let her talk. I'm
Speaker:just excited he's setting you up, Carley. He really did.
Speaker:Running around that Mass Timber conference with Luke was a delight
Speaker:because I'll tease a little bit of what I'd like to talk about. It's so
Speaker:important in the architecture space to know people who do
Speaker:other things than practice architecture. And I would consider Luke one of
Speaker:my favorite contacts within the industry. At large. And
Speaker:getting to talk to him about the work going on locally was
Speaker:fantastic. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great perspective that
Speaker:Luke brings to the table and Zweig Group in general as
Speaker:somebody that works on, not necessarily in the business,
Speaker:but on the business of architecture and design. It brings a
Speaker:different perspective and it can really be helpful to practitioners like
Speaker:yourself and your colleagues at Marlon Blackwell, as well as any
Speaker:of the other firms that Zweig Group comes in contact with. So, you
Speaker:know, I want to jump right into it because you have, you have a wealth
Speaker:of experience for such a young person. I want to ask you what
Speaker:first drew you to architecture and, and you know,
Speaker:specifically nonprofit community based work.
Speaker:That's a great question. I know a lot of people who grew up playing
Speaker:with LEGO sets or playing in sims and said, this is what I want to
Speaker:do with my life. I was not one of those people. I thought that I
Speaker:would go into psychology. I thought that I would go into
Speaker:forest management. There were a lot of different options on the table. But
Speaker:when I went to Auburn University and toured the architecture building,
Speaker:I was completely captivated by the energy. It wasn't
Speaker:like anything I'd ever seen. The buzz, the dedication, the
Speaker:purpose was, were signals to me that this was going to be
Speaker:more than just a job, more than just a 9 to 5, but
Speaker:something that could direct my life. And I mean,
Speaker:and Auburn has a really special program there. I
Speaker:would love for you maybe to kind of unpack your experience
Speaker:at Auburn specifically. I mean, you are in Arkansas
Speaker:now, but Auburn holds a special place in your heart.
Speaker:You know, for the time that you were there for school, but then also for
Speaker:all the things that you learned. Could you talk just a little bit about their
Speaker:program and why it is so important for people to learn about it?
Speaker:Yeah, I'd be happy to. For all your listeners out there that are Auburn fans
Speaker:or not, I want to give a quick war eagle,
Speaker:but Auburn University is known within the
Speaker:architectural department for a variety of incredible programs. Actually,
Speaker:the Urban Studio and the Rural studio are both
Speaker:5th year options for students completing the architecture program. In the
Speaker:Urban Studio, you go to Birmingham and work one on one with
Speaker:city planners and local architects to understand urban design. But in
Speaker:Rural Studio, you go out to Hale County, Alabama, which is one of
Speaker:the poorest counties in the entire US to engage
Speaker:in rural development practices and design build
Speaker:in which you and a team of typically
Speaker:three other fifth year students will be given a project
Speaker:brief for a local community project and work together
Speaker:to interface with the community and design and build a project for that community.
Speaker:And that really set the tone for what I viewed
Speaker:as the rest of my practice so far. Yeah,
Speaker:and was. So were you fully aware of those two
Speaker:options when you first started at the U of A, at the U of A
Speaker:program at the Auburn University program? I was only
Speaker:peripherally aware, actually. My parents are both big Auburn fans
Speaker:and raised me in Auburn shirts and Auburn
Speaker:rooms with Auburn songs on the radio. And
Speaker:I swore that I wouldn't go, actually. Sorry to say,
Speaker:I thought that, you know, what I really wanted was to go a little bit
Speaker:further afield. But when I saw that architecture department,
Speaker:I was captivated and wanted to do a little bit more
Speaker:research before I dove headlong into it and found out that
Speaker:Auburn Architecture was at the time rated one of the top undergrad
Speaker:programs for architecture in the country.
Speaker:And looking into it, realized that it was because of,
Speaker:you know, in no small part due to some of the programs that Auburn offers,
Speaker:including the two that I mentioned, as well as study abroad programs and other
Speaker:pretty incredible development opportunities. And so when I started,
Speaker:the idea of what I would do with my fifth year was impossibly distant.
Speaker:I wasn't quite sure where I would end up
Speaker:by year five. And in fact, couple years
Speaker:into it, started to wonder if this was the right thing.
Speaker:Because, you know, architecture school, like a few other undergraduate
Speaker:programs, really takes students that are used to a high
Speaker:school structure of here's an assignment that you need to deliver and I will give
Speaker:you a grade based off of how well you deliver this assignment. A good
Speaker:architecture program will upend that
Speaker:expectation and give students open ended questions
Speaker:to solve. And that flipped my world upside down.
Speaker:And I started to wonder like what this could actually look like in
Speaker:practice. And some of the more successful practices in
Speaker:Alabama, at least the ones that I was exposed to, were
Speaker:involved or served clientele
Speaker:that I think were typically doing really well for
Speaker:themselves. And that was not something
Speaker:that I found too interesting. I grew up
Speaker:in a world that was not particularly engaged with the
Speaker:design of our built environment. Even as much as, you know,
Speaker:the typical American will spend 90% of their time inside and we
Speaker:don't have a sort of a public understanding of how our spaces are
Speaker:designed or we don't participate in how our spaces are
Speaker:designed. Especially if you live in a single family home in a
Speaker:typical American town. And this whole world was
Speaker:completely new to me and I thought I was maybe a little bit out of
Speaker:place. I would ask my classmates like, do you have parents who do this?
Speaker:What do your parents do that was my number one question. I would ask all
Speaker:the classmates, what do your parents do? And a lot of them, they would say,
Speaker:oh, my, my parents are contractors or my parents are real estate
Speaker:agents. And I thought that I really was at
Speaker:some sort of disadvantage for not having sort of this prior
Speaker:experience with the way that this profession functions. And I
Speaker:was getting a little bit dissuaded from an engagement with the
Speaker:industry, right. Because how in the world am I supposed to engage
Speaker:in the culture that I knew with this profession that
Speaker:I've picked? And then one day we had a lecture at Auburn
Speaker:done by Michael Murphy, one of the co founders of Mass Design Group. And I
Speaker:thought, this is a new way of practicing that I hadn't
Speaker:been exposed to yet. And I wanted to stick with my
Speaker:program and apply to the Rural Studio, which engages in that
Speaker:community design aspect. And we have some incredible
Speaker:project briefs at the Rural Studio. And
Speaker:architects practicing from all over the world will come in and
Speaker:critique our work and talk to us about our projects and tell us, you
Speaker:are so lucky to be doing something like this. I wish I was doing something
Speaker:like this. And I would always think, okay, but how
Speaker:would I be able to do work like this when I leave? Because I'm on
Speaker:the receiving end of a brief. But that doesn't mean that as an architect I
Speaker:know how to go out and get that work. So I was always fascinated
Speaker:with what not just what the students were doing at Rural Studio, but what the
Speaker:staff were doing because they were the ones working behind the scenes over the
Speaker:summer throughout the year to interview clients to
Speaker:understand pre existing conditions. Do you own your land?
Speaker:Do you have infrastructure? Do you have sewer? Do you have
Speaker:wastewater? Do you have plumbing? And then filtering that information
Speaker:to then set up the students for success when we got there. And
Speaker:I thought if I didn't understand how that process worked, then I
Speaker:was potentially doomed to practice
Speaker:on the receiving end in which I wasn't playing an active
Speaker:role in how projects get decided or what projects are needed. I would only
Speaker:ever be downstream of what someone else wanted. And that's not to
Speaker:say that that's a bad thing, but I wanted a broader view
Speaker:of how development work and how construction work happens,
Speaker:not only in the US but in other countries. Yeah. Yeah. Well,
Speaker:I love that. Luke, were you going to say something? No, I was going to
Speaker:say it's. So one of the things that I was particularly interested
Speaker:going into this interview is that you clearly have
Speaker:a passion for the built environment. Not specifically
Speaker:just architecture, but kind of the interconnected nature of it. So one of the
Speaker:things I was interested in was what was the space that made you
Speaker:understand or want to engage with architecture in the built
Speaker:environment. So it's very interesting to me that you
Speaker:entered it not through a family connection or something when you were
Speaker:young. It was a physical space when you were visiting a college, which I
Speaker:think speaks to the power of the Auburn Design Studio. But it's a nice
Speaker:bookmark for this conversation or bookend that. Our first
Speaker:conversation took place in the Fay Jones Design Building
Speaker:at the University of Arkansas, which is personally my favorite space. That made a
Speaker:lot click for me. So I just think it's a really interesting
Speaker:genesis point for a career. Yeah, I agree, I
Speaker:agree. And so because I kind of see where you're going, Carley,
Speaker:with how you're describing your experience. So what I want to do is maybe
Speaker:just quickly unpack that experience specifically with
Speaker:the Rural Studio before we jump into Mass Design Group, because it sounds
Speaker:like the Mass Design Group was really what laid the foundation for
Speaker:you and to have the experience on the front end that you talked about
Speaker:of looking at things from a developer perspective, from
Speaker:a Genesis perspective, as opposed to the just the receiving end
Speaker:of hey, we need you to design something. Right? And that's. There's a little, there's
Speaker:a difference there. But one of the projects and you shared it with me and
Speaker:we'll put a link on the in the show notes for this. But tell us
Speaker:about the $20,000 house project from Rural Studio.
Speaker:What was it like to design and build that? Oh
Speaker:man, talk about in over your head. So for folks
Speaker:doing their doing their homework and doing some research, I would always encourage
Speaker:people to look up some visual support media for
Speaker:these sort of conversations. The what was once known as the
Speaker:20k house project has now been rebranded to the Front porch
Speaker:initiative because 20k is really
Speaker:exciting. I would love to spend 20k on a house,
Speaker:but in this day and age, 20k on a house means that you end up
Speaker:in a cardboard box, maybe with a septic system. And that was. That
Speaker:was born out of conversations when this program first started. So this
Speaker:is a subset program of the Rural Studio. Rural
Speaker:Studio will often deliver project briefs to its
Speaker:students as either community projects that
Speaker:may be sort of singular projects unto themselves
Speaker:in communities surrounding Hale county and the surrounding counties.
Speaker:We also have a long running research project which is
Speaker:the formerly known as the 20K House Project, now known as the Front Porch
Speaker:Initiative, which is a bit of a research project in
Speaker:which they started building single family homes in a rural setting back in
Speaker:2001, with the goal of competing
Speaker:with local prices for a trailer, perhaps.
Speaker:Right. So trailers will depreciate in value the second you walk off with them.
Speaker:But a house will allow someone to develop equity in the land
Speaker:that they own or equity in the community that they live in.
Speaker:So, using design principles, material
Speaker:selection, and radical reconsideration
Speaker:of the way that housing is delivered in a rural
Speaker:setting, the Rural Studios Front Porch Initiative strives
Speaker:to examine obstacles to home ownership
Speaker:in rural communities. So one of my favorite stories about the
Speaker:Front Porch Initiative is actually a project that's not
Speaker:in the Front Porch Initiative at all. It's actually the fire station
Speaker:in New Bern, Alabama. Because during this process
Speaker:of building homes for people in this rural community,
Speaker:the team discovered the other obstacles to
Speaker:homeownership, such as fire insurance. And
Speaker:insurance prices for the homes in these areas were exorbitant because the
Speaker:closest fire department was a 25 minute drive away. And
Speaker:they realized that to better the
Speaker:community and bring everybody that much closer to attaining
Speaker:homeownership and equity was to build a volunteer fire station.
Speaker:And that is so exciting to understand the
Speaker:systems at work and the challenges that you're trying to address on a community level.
Speaker:The fact that Rural Studio would have the bandwidth, the foresight
Speaker:to say, if we're going to keep doing housing for individuals,
Speaker:we need to provide community infrastructure. It's one of my favorite
Speaker:projects. It's so fantastic, like, from a material standpoint and a detailing
Speaker:standpoint, but also from like a systems standpoint. It works on so
Speaker:many different levels. And I love, I love going by there anytime I'm in New
Speaker:Bern. In New Bern now. Is New Bern part of Hill County?
Speaker:Yes. Newburn is a part of Hale County. Okay. The Rural Studio
Speaker:program is headquartered. Yeah. And just north of us
Speaker:is Greensboro, which is the county seat and where many
Speaker:students, including myself, end up finding lodgings. Yeah.
Speaker:So, you know, it's funny, not that you blew my mind, but you did say
Speaker:something that I honestly never thought about the proximity of a fire
Speaker:station in relationship to the cost of
Speaker:insurance and things of that nature. And the reason why I'm not thinking of it
Speaker:like that is because where I live here in Fville, literally on the
Speaker:next block is my fire station. So I mean, it. They. They would
Speaker:be at my house before I hung up the phone, right? Oh, yeah. And you
Speaker:never, you take those things for granted that especially in rural areas,
Speaker:that could be a real issue. And then of course, you got the insurance cost.
Speaker:Insurance is already expensive, let alone adding to the Fact that. Oh,
Speaker:well, because you're. You're so far away from the local
Speaker:fire department, we've got to charge you more or we
Speaker:can't insure you. Yeah. Like this is cost prohibitive. Like,
Speaker:you think that you have saved up what you need to start a construction loan
Speaker:for your dream house, and it turns out your insurance cost
Speaker:is going to be like 25% of your monthly payment on your
Speaker:mortgage. Wow. Yeah. And, you know, not to skip too much in the
Speaker:chronology, but I'm working on a project right now in a rural setting in another
Speaker:state where a huge consideration is water.
Speaker:Like, we have to meet code requirements for fire suppression. Given the client that we're
Speaker:working with, and the local water Source is at
Speaker:98% capacity. What do we do? Do we drill? A test
Speaker:drill, cost $20,000? Do we talk with water association? Do
Speaker:we build fire or water tanks, water towers? What's in our
Speaker:budget? What do we need to do? Like, rural projects in and of themselves are
Speaker:so much more complicated than
Speaker:people give them credit for. And I think it takes a particular kind of
Speaker:practice to be able to engage in some of those. My boss, Marlon,
Speaker:has a saying that he sort of passes around the office, which
Speaker:is, you know, we talk about vernacular. Right. Because vernacular is really important
Speaker:to building in rural settings. And what said is
Speaker:vernacular is what you do when you can't afford to get it wrong. Yeah,
Speaker:I like that. But your original question
Speaker:was about the Front Porch initiative. And, you know, to kind of
Speaker:maybe bring in some narrative conclusion on that. That was
Speaker:my project brief when I was there with my team is we did the
Speaker:21st version of a. What was known
Speaker:then as a 20k home. We did a two bedroom home in
Speaker:adjacent Perry County, Alabama, for a local
Speaker:client there who owned land that had been
Speaker:subdivided from, I believe, a father or a grandfather
Speaker:who had lived on the land before him. Wow. And correct me if I'm
Speaker:wrong, but one of the parts of the initiative is that these
Speaker:homes can be replicated. That there is like
Speaker:that those blueprints can be used Exactly. For another project. They often
Speaker:are. Yeah. They took the house that we designed
Speaker:while we were there, and they have replicated it a few times since. They
Speaker:built it to a different energy standard in
Speaker:Opelika, Alabama, which is outside of Auburn, with, I believe
Speaker:it was Habitat for Humanity. And then they used that house
Speaker:to run energy tests and see how it stood up.
Speaker:Part of the question that the program asks is, you know, as
Speaker:architects, we're only one step in the process and
Speaker:receiving a Brief. Designing the project, documenting it
Speaker:and issuing construction documents are what you
Speaker:may view as sort of the typical scope of work of an architect on a
Speaker:residential project. If we're involved in a residential project at all, it's pretty rare because
Speaker:by code we don't have to be. But the second those plans leave our hands
Speaker:and go into the hands of a contractor, what are prevailing practices in
Speaker:the area? What are local resources in the area? What is
Speaker:the comfort of the different trades that practice in that area with taking
Speaker:those plans and saying, go above and
Speaker:beyond and tape every seam and seal
Speaker:every joint so that the house is airtight and meets
Speaker:particular standards to provide, you know, miles
Speaker:of energy efficiency over what you may typically see in a. In a neighborhood
Speaker:of spec homes in a development in a town like
Speaker:Opalika, Alabama. I love the iterative nature of your
Speaker:experiences with this because one thing has kind of built on another
Speaker:to inform. It seems like maybe how you even approach design,
Speaker:right, as an architect, like 100% so.
Speaker:And from that vein, I'd love for you maybe to talk a little bit
Speaker:about how your experience, specifically as you
Speaker:moved on from the Rural Studio, your experiences with Mass Design
Speaker:Group and your time in Kigali kind of shaped your approach to
Speaker:design. Oh yeah. So, you know, I
Speaker:mentioned earlier that I kind of had this desire to see what was going
Speaker:on outside of my state. I wanted to get context. I
Speaker:remember writing actually a scholarship application while I was in school that, you know,
Speaker:ultimately I wanted to leave home and
Speaker:study and get context. This sort of feeling of being,
Speaker:you know, from outside the industry compelled me to go get some
Speaker:context. And I wanted to leave the state, maybe leave the country, get
Speaker:some experience and bring it home. And the first
Speaker:opportunity that I got to do so would love to, you
Speaker:know, plug and shout out here to the Hundredfold Studio in
Speaker:Kalispell. Not in Kalispell, the Hundredfold Studio in
Speaker:Lakeside, Montana. They run a beautiful practice
Speaker:that engages in nonprofit architecture. And they were
Speaker:my first experience with a really intentional practice that
Speaker:engages in the education of staff and
Speaker:mission aligned architecture. So the premise of the practice
Speaker:is that is a community oriented nonprofit and
Speaker:they choose what they work on. And often their most
Speaker:common partner at the time, I believe was YWAM Youth with a Mission.
Speaker:So they had a partnership with a larger organization and a really
Speaker:incredible dialogue in which they would talk about what the
Speaker:organization needed at home or abroad and
Speaker:work to make sure those needs were met. So the project I worked on there
Speaker:at the time was for a local community center for ywam
Speaker:in Lakeside. So the job site was like
Speaker:a couple hundred yards from the door of the office.
Speaker:Incredible. And the offices of the people running the community center
Speaker:were a couple hundred yards from the front door of the office. And it was
Speaker:so hyperlocal in such a beautiful space. And all of those things were
Speaker:intertwined. And I got to work there for about five months,
Speaker:working to learn energy modeling
Speaker:and energy analysis programs so that the
Speaker:projects that we built for people served them as best as possible.
Speaker:And then while I was there, did some phone
Speaker:interviews and accepted a fellowship program. My next
Speaker:fellowship program with a nonprofit architecture firm, Mass
Speaker:Design Group. And from Montana, went back to Alabama
Speaker:and packed a new set of bags because, if you can imagine, I didn't really
Speaker:need my ski jacket in Rwanda.
Speaker:Yeah, different weather. Exactly. So I had to swap out my ski
Speaker:jacket for breezy shirts, cotton.
Speaker:And I think I packed a suitcase in a backpack
Speaker:and went to Boston for some
Speaker:initiation training to. Because that's where Mass
Speaker:Design Group is based, right? That's right. That's right. Their
Speaker:American headquarters is in Boston, and then their
Speaker:Rwandan headquarters is in the capital city, Kigali. And
Speaker:in the Boston office, I'm sure things have fluxed
Speaker:quite a bit. And they now have a few different satellite offices throughout the country.
Speaker:But in the Boston office, I think it was maybe something like 10 to 20
Speaker:people. But in the Kigale office, it's a
Speaker:multidisciplinary office of folks from
Speaker:many different countries. And they were, you know, over a hundred people
Speaker:when I worked there in 2018. Okay. How
Speaker:long were you there? I was there for 14 months. Wow. Wow,
Speaker:that's exciting. Luke, you got a question? Yeah, no, I was going to say, like,
Speaker:I. I love that you mentioned that desire for context.
Speaker:And Randy, you mentioned the iterative experience of your education.
Speaker:And I'm really curious, and I think Randy is too. You go across
Speaker:the world. What brings you back to the South? What made you take a
Speaker:chance on Martin, On Marlon Blackwell? Oh, man.
Speaker:Working for Marlon Blackwell is not necessarily
Speaker:a chance I took on him, but probably more of a chance he took on
Speaker:me. I came into his firm
Speaker:with about two years of experience in non
Speaker:traditional nonprofit work. When I worked at Maas,
Speaker:working in Kigali, we were completely local.
Speaker:Working within the political
Speaker:infrastructure within Rwanda necessitated
Speaker:local solutions, you know, politically and economically. What are you going to
Speaker:do? Import aluminum storefront from
Speaker:Kenya on your hospital project? No, we. We would
Speaker:fabricate windows and doors on site. And so what that looked like, you know, from
Speaker:a get like Technical here for a second. We would do
Speaker:fabrication drawings of windows and doors. So in my
Speaker:time there, I never saw a specification book, a project
Speaker:manual, and that's completely core to practicing
Speaker:in an American environment. So even though I had a couple years of experience,
Speaker:that didn't necessarily equate to a couple years of experience of someone who'd been
Speaker:practicing in the U.S. now, I had quite
Speaker:the aura of someone who was willing
Speaker:to hop around and learn
Speaker:and take chances and dive into things, but had a
Speaker:little bit of catching up to do. And so diving into the
Speaker:practice at MBA was fascinating
Speaker:because in my five years working here, we're not
Speaker:just, you know, a local firm here in Fayetteville, though we
Speaker:are. We're really, really proud to be a local firm in Fayetteville. I've had friends
Speaker:who've gone on and coworkers who've taken other opportunities, and they
Speaker:report back, like, I miss the systems at
Speaker:Marlon Blackwell architect's office. Like, the way
Speaker:that we're able to, like, organize and vet and discuss and
Speaker:design is incredibly unique, and I'm so, so
Speaker:lucky. Like, all these experiences that I had in Alabama
Speaker:engendered this, like, real, like, sense of importance in local, local
Speaker:design. Alabama, Montana, Kigali. When I worked
Speaker:in Alabama, I worked in my community. When I worked in Montana, I worked in
Speaker:my community. When I worked in Kigali, same thing. I
Speaker:worked on a design project where we were doing a biomedical
Speaker:center, a center of excellence, and took that through design. And then they
Speaker:told me to switch gears while they were trying to figure out how to get
Speaker:that project off the ground. And I was going to go work construction administration on
Speaker:a local hospital. And every day, I'd get on the back of a motorcycle and
Speaker:drive to site and inspect the fabrication of those windows and doors I
Speaker:talked about and try to solve problems that came up as we went
Speaker:along. And, you know, I left Kigali, unbeknownst to
Speaker:me, right before COVID broke out, but the hospital had just opened, and I got
Speaker:news that that hospital was one of the first to serve the first
Speaker:COVID patients in Kigali. And that was. That was crazy. That
Speaker:was so important to me. And so coming to, you know, Marlon
Speaker:Blackwell's firm here in Fayetteville, he's known within
Speaker:the profession for understanding
Speaker:local traditions and local materials. And I was like, there's no
Speaker:other way for me to do this at this point. So it's.
Speaker:It's got to be this. I was like. I said I wanted to, you know,
Speaker:get context, and then Come back. And so I had a list of firms in
Speaker:the south, and Marlon had just
Speaker:won the gold medal for American
Speaker:practice from the American Institute of Architects. And,
Speaker:yeah, he's kind of a big deal.
Speaker:Yes, he is. Yeah. I mean, we've. We've had. I mean,
Speaker:we're. We've kind of have. When it comes to architectural design in northwest
Speaker:Arkansas, because that's actually where we're all sitting as we record
Speaker:this. We kind of have an embarrassment of riches of design
Speaker:professionals in this area. And, I mean, you think about Fay
Speaker:Jones and his impact, and, I mean, he sat under
Speaker:the man, Frank Lloyd Wright. And so, you know, I mean, I just
Speaker:think that there is a. People don't. You know, I know Arkansas is kind of
Speaker:a flyover state, but there's a lot happening here, and there's a lot of cool
Speaker:design work emanating throughout the world that starts right here
Speaker:in Arkansas. So I think that's. That's worth mentioning.
Speaker:So I guess. Oh, my gosh. No, it's. It's true. No, so that. Actually, I'm
Speaker:glad you brought that up, because when I was looking at different firms that are,
Speaker:like, well known in the south for the kinds of practices that they
Speaker:do and the projects that they produce, I got wind that
Speaker:a lot of different, you know, firms here were aiming to
Speaker:get on the design excellence list in northwest Arkansas.
Speaker:And I thought, like, I'm really lucky, really, really lucky
Speaker:to have ended up here, because from what I can tell, if I
Speaker:was at another firm, we might just be doing work here anyway. Right.
Speaker:But now I get to be a part of that community and a part of
Speaker:that legacy. Like, no one has connections. Like Marlon Blackwell,
Speaker:architect staff has connections. That's not just Marlon. And he's so well
Speaker:connected. He's, you know, been invested in this community for 33 years.
Speaker:But, like, the staff he retains, like, we have so many
Speaker:talented Arkansans in this office
Speaker:whose dad's neighbor knows a guy
Speaker:who can, like, give us some insight as to, you
Speaker:know, who to talk to at the city about this project under development. Right. And
Speaker:that's so important. Yeah, it is.
Speaker:So you've mentioned a couple of things I want to go back to real quickly
Speaker:before we move on the hospital in Kigali. Now, you
Speaker:mentioned earlier in the podcast that because you didn't come from a
Speaker:traditional background, that a lot of your peers did when you were matriculating through
Speaker:Auburn, you know, maybe their parents were real estate agents or
Speaker:contractors or so on so forth, but now your family has a Healthcare
Speaker:background, Is that correct? How did that
Speaker:impact when you worked on healthcare projects, especially that hospital
Speaker:in Kigali, did that impact in any way, shape or form inform you
Speaker:in terms of how you approach to the design, given that
Speaker:you have some familiarity with others that have, you
Speaker:know, worked in that system? It's such a good question.
Speaker:So when I say that my family has, you know, background in healthcare,
Speaker:my dad works in pharmacy. My mom is in marketing for a
Speaker:toxicology company. My sister, big shout out
Speaker:to Dr. Chastain. She just entered into her residency program in North
Speaker:Carolina. Bravo. I know. Big snaps. That's
Speaker:exciting. Dr. Castane. My uncle is my dentist.
Speaker:My brother's going into a mental health program
Speaker:for counseling. And so my background,
Speaker:or any sort of exposure that I had, actually had to do more with individual
Speaker:practitioners of healthcare of maybe
Speaker:diagnosis and treatment. Working for Mass
Speaker:Design Group, specifically for the Global Health
Speaker:Core Fellowship, meant that I was introduced for the
Speaker:first time to public health, which was a foreign concept to me,
Speaker:but it was perfect because public health has to do
Speaker:with the infrastructure of our healthcare system, and
Speaker:architecture is the infrastructure of our built environment. So there are
Speaker:individual practitioners, right? Folks on the call, folks
Speaker:who are individually engaged within the system, but then
Speaker:there's the system itself. So it's, you know, to sort of
Speaker:parallel the conversation. Healthcare is not just about
Speaker:diagnosis and treatment, but about evaluating the systems in which we
Speaker:live to promote holistic preventative care.
Speaker:And that was such an interesting learning experience
Speaker:because again, right after I moved to Arkansas, Covid breaks
Speaker:out and all these conversations that I've been having and learning about
Speaker:our public health systems, which is, how are
Speaker:vaccines available and administrated? What's messaging around vaccines?
Speaker:What are our rules and guidelines for how we conduct
Speaker:ourselves in a public space in order to limit transmission of what might be
Speaker:a viral disease, really, really moved to
Speaker:the spotlight. And the job that I was hired to
Speaker:do at mba, the project that I was hired to staff was
Speaker:the Heartland Whole Health Institute here in northwest. Arkansas, which is how
Speaker:appropriate. I know, man. I'm like, I can't get away from this.
Speaker:I told them. I was like, you know, I told my family, love that you
Speaker:guys are in healthcare. That's not my thing. I'm gonna go do buildings.
Speaker:And then, of course, lo and behold, I'm on hospitals and
Speaker:community health centers and health
Speaker:institutions and having such interesting conversations
Speaker:about each of our individual practices within the context in which we
Speaker:practice. Yeah, well. And for the uninitiated that are listening to
Speaker:this podcast and other parts of the country. The whole health institute is
Speaker:certainly a beacon of light here in northwest Arkansas.
Speaker:It is part of the Alice Walton School of Medicine.
Speaker:There is a whole bigger program that's happening because
Speaker:northwest Arkansas is one of the fastest growing MSAs in the country.
Speaker:And so that's. We have needs for a little bit of everything.
Speaker:And when you have, thankfully, one of the richest women in the
Speaker:world in Alice Walton that sees a need in health care and wants to fill
Speaker:that need right in the backyard where she grew up, makes a huge difference. And
Speaker:it creates opportunities for people like Carley and for Marlon
Speaker:Blackwell Architects, as well as any other design firm that's in
Speaker:this area, as well as those that are in other parts of the country that
Speaker:are coming here to work and finding opportunity to be a part of
Speaker:the built environment right here in our own backyard.
Speaker:And I think we should also mention that it is one of the most beautiful
Speaker:structures in a place that has a lot of beautiful structures.
Speaker:It is truly breathtaking. It's like they keep trying to outdo themselves.
Speaker:Every time I look up, I can't wait to see the finish of Crystal
Speaker:Bridges, which is our outstanding museum, because
Speaker:they're just doing a whole nother expansion of it. But yeah, every time I look
Speaker:up, there's. I mean, there's, you know, what they always say is the indicator of
Speaker:the health of a city or an area are the number of
Speaker:cranes that you see in the air. And at one
Speaker:point I lost count after seven cranes in downtown
Speaker:Bentonville not too far back. So, yeah, that's always a
Speaker:good sign when you see that right here in northwest Arkansas. So
Speaker:it's funny you say that. There was a report that I
Speaker:read and was integrating into a write up for another project we did
Speaker:the ledger in downtown Bentonville that
Speaker:stated that Bentonville has the highest cranes per capita of any city
Speaker:in the U.S. yeah, yeah. I mean, I think they overtook Miami or
Speaker:someplace like that. So it's pretty. It's pretty impressive. So
Speaker:insane. Yeah. Wow. I mean, there's so many different directions we
Speaker:can go, but I want to find a place where we can land this and,
Speaker:and be respectful of the amount of time that you've given us. We're so
Speaker:thankful for this. There are a couple of things that you said that I wanted
Speaker:to kind of piggyback on because as a young design professional,
Speaker:I think it's important for your peers to hear this, but I would love
Speaker:for you to share your thoughts on how you see the role of
Speaker:architects evolving in the next 10 years. What do you think
Speaker:is possible for your profession. Right.
Speaker:That will keep people in the profession, because there
Speaker:are some that are leaving the profession for a
Speaker:variety of reasons. And that's one of the things that, as I've worked at Zweig
Speaker:Group over the years, I was always alarmed by, because we need design
Speaker:professionals. You know, engineers, architects, environmental consultants, planners,
Speaker:construction management. We need all of those folks. We don't need anybody leaving
Speaker:the profession. But I would be curious to know from your
Speaker:perspective, Carley, where do you see the role of architects
Speaker:evolving in the next 10 years? Or what do you hope for? Oh,
Speaker:man, I know that's a lot. That's a huge question. Okay.
Speaker:So in my head, I'm like, sort of splitting this into two, actually different
Speaker:questions, because, like, where do I hope the profession goes
Speaker:Might actually be a little bit different than, like, the
Speaker:health of the profession right now. So the question of retention
Speaker:is really important to me as a woman in the industry,
Speaker:because I think recently we passed a milestone,
Speaker:this might have been a couple of years ago, in which more than 50%
Speaker:of architecture graduates from an undergraduate program. Over
Speaker:50% of them are women. And, you know, I think
Speaker:we've seen some of the instances of
Speaker:opportunities that exist in this space, especially through
Speaker:programs like Elevate her and others that are really
Speaker:making it a point to highlight women in the design
Speaker:profession at every level and every vocation.
Speaker:And so I think it's important for us to kind of have that conversation. Right.
Speaker:Because, you know, you've talked about so many different things that you've
Speaker:experienced in your short time in the industry, and you've. I mean, you've.
Speaker:You've lived the lives of a couple of architects in this short time, and you
Speaker:still got a ways to go. So it's like. I know. You know. Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, it's. Yeah. So it's like you got to be excited about what the
Speaker:future holds. And especially I'm excited just hearing your story,
Speaker:because if more architects get to experience what
Speaker:you've experienced in such an early period in your
Speaker:profession, then there really is a lot of hope for where the design
Speaker:industry is going in the future, you know, And I don't
Speaker:want to answer your question for you, but it's just an outside observer looking
Speaker:on the inside of what I've seen interacting with so many design
Speaker:professionals around the country. Around the world, for that matter. Yeah,
Speaker:absolutely. And so I think what I've done
Speaker:is capitalize on a privilege afforded
Speaker:to me by the status of my family
Speaker:and the ability to go to school and Then the ability again
Speaker:to use income driven repayment plans on my student
Speaker:loans to go and make $600 a month at a
Speaker:nonprofit firm for four months. Because I can
Speaker:and I did those non traditional experiences
Speaker:in order to explore different opportunities and then
Speaker:transitioned into what is now a more traditional, salaried,
Speaker:professional trajectory within the firm that I work in at the, in the U.S.
Speaker:but from like a broader standpoint, that's not going to be everyone's experience.
Speaker:And the field can really do a number on you in
Speaker:the early years. So the stat that I wanted to look up and not misquote
Speaker:is that over 50% of architecture graduates are women, but
Speaker:only between maybe 17 to 23% of licensed
Speaker:architects are women. So in those years between getting out of school
Speaker:and getting the license that will allow you to practice
Speaker:yourself or capitalize on opportunities within a firm
Speaker:where you're employed, women drop off. And that's important
Speaker:because we need a diversity of life experiences to
Speaker:design the environment that we're living in. You need people from different
Speaker:backgrounds, socioeconomic backgrounds,
Speaker:racial backgrounds, gender backgrounds to engage in this profession
Speaker:because we are handing other people the built environment. We live in a
Speaker:specialized economy where we're all trying to do our part
Speaker:to make life easier for us collectively. And
Speaker:if we're delivering, one note, spaces to an increasingly
Speaker:diverse population here in the US then architecture
Speaker:will continue to lose relevancy to the general
Speaker:public and we will only ever be a profession
Speaker:that is dialed in and caters to
Speaker:the rapidly reducing number of people who can afford our services.
Speaker:Okay. So the future that I look to is
Speaker:one in which we have a diverse workforce
Speaker:that has advocacy, the local, state and
Speaker:national level, for the relevancy of our services,
Speaker:the health of the built environment, and,
Speaker:you know, well designed policies and
Speaker:planning for the spaces that we live in. Yeah,
Speaker:I was curious from. I love that, that
Speaker:when we talk about the future, you frame that from the perspective of retention
Speaker:recruitment. And retention is, is what we do at Zweigroup. And so
Speaker:I, I wanted to hear that question from the framework
Speaker:of if you're speaking to a firm leader that's trying to
Speaker:recruit young, passionate architects, you're not alone. There are
Speaker:other people that care and they care very much. So
Speaker:if you're speaking to a firm leader, how would you tell them to recruit and
Speaker:kind of widen that net? Oh, man. So I've
Speaker:never had to face the challenge of recruiting someone else. I've always been on the
Speaker:receiving end of that. And so speaking to the receiving end,
Speaker:I would want to see Firm leaders that are engaging within their local
Speaker:community, that, you know, keep relationships with
Speaker:people, maybe at the city level or the local level, that know the
Speaker:phone number of the lumberyard. And that when I come into your
Speaker:firm, I can be equipped with those same resources to get good work done.
Speaker:That's huge. As well as being able
Speaker:to develop incoming work, a pipeline of
Speaker:work that continues to benefit and
Speaker:build in that local community for the people that I care
Speaker:about, my neighbors. Doing good work. Well, detailed,
Speaker:attentive, not necessarily expensive, but intentional
Speaker:and well crafted. Acknowledging that architecture is a
Speaker:field, a very, very broad field involved in
Speaker:coordinating with a lot of different professions, and that it sort of takes
Speaker:understanding and maintaining relationships with those different
Speaker:professions to continually forward the quality of work
Speaker:that we do. Yeah, that makes. I mean. I mean, I hear everything you're saying.
Speaker:You add personal professional development to it, a strong mentoring
Speaker:program. There are a number of things that a firm can do, all of
Speaker:which I know you're getting at. Marlon Blackwell. You know, these are. These. It's
Speaker:clear. And that makes a huge difference. And I tell firm leaders all the time,
Speaker:time. It's not rocket science, but you have to be
Speaker:intentional about making sure that those things are happening and
Speaker:making sure that it's not an afterthought. Because a lot of times people just
Speaker:try to bolt something on, and we all know what happens when you bolt
Speaker:something on that wasn't originally tended to be part of a structure. It
Speaker:doesn't usually last. From the
Speaker:beginning. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, man, this has
Speaker:been good. Carley, if anybody listening to this wants to
Speaker:just connect with you or get in touch with you, maybe another young professional,
Speaker:young peer that's heard this and was really encouraged by what you've shared
Speaker:and what your experiences have been up to this point. As a
Speaker:design professional, what's the best way for them to get in contact with you? Well,
Speaker:that's a great question. My email is
Speaker:C A r l e yrlin Blackwell.com
Speaker:and you can talk to me there, and I will answer any
Speaker:sort of questions of that nature. What's going on? How's work?
Speaker:We want to get a coffee. Yeah, I love that. If they're local. If they're
Speaker:not local, just reach out to her. She might even get on a zoom call
Speaker:with you and have a conversation. But I suspect that you'll probably see
Speaker:Carley speaking at events somewhere, whether
Speaker:on either coast or somewhere in the middle of the country at some point in
Speaker:time about her experiences. Because, guys, we just scratched
Speaker:the surface of what this young lady has been able to do in the design
Speaker:industry in a short period of time. And so I'm just
Speaker:excited because if Carley represents what the design industry
Speaker:can look forward to with design professionals, we're in good hands.
Speaker:So, Carley, I just. I wish you nothing but continued success. And I'd
Speaker:like to. I don't want to put a period here, but I want to put
Speaker:a comma, because I want to come back at some point in time and continue
Speaker:this conversation on, because I know you're going to continue to do some great stuff.
Speaker:So that is so kind. Thank you very much for having me and.
Speaker:Absolutely. Conversations. This is a really, really wonderful
Speaker:opportunity for me to reflect on work and, you know,
Speaker:realign what I'm doing even today. Yeah. Well,
Speaker:I appreciate that. And be sure to share this episode with Marlon. With Marlon when
Speaker:it comes out, or I'll. I'll. I'll send it to him because I do know
Speaker:Marlon. So, yeah, I've had a chance to. I've had the pleasure of sharing a
Speaker:stage with him, but he's an outstanding individual, a wonderful human being first
Speaker:and a great architect, so that's a good combination to have.
Speaker:So anyway, Carley Chastain, thank you for joining us
Speaker:today on this White Glitter podcast. We really appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate you
Speaker:guys. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much, Carley. Yeah, for sure. For
Speaker:sure. Luke, thank you for joining me again. As always, I appreciate you
Speaker:running it back with me to have another great conversation with another great
Speaker:design professional. I think we're going to go ahead and wrap it up here.
Speaker:I'm Randy Wilburn, the host of the zweigletter podcast, along with my
Speaker:colleague Luke Carruthers. We're excited that you're joining us here. Remember, this
Speaker:White Glitter podcast can be found on every major podcasting platform,
Speaker:including YouTube. If you want to learn more about Zweig Group, please
Speaker:Visit us@zweiggroup.com you can also
Speaker:subscribe for free to the Zweig Letter newsletter, which
Speaker:comes out every Monday, rain or shine. I'm your host, Randy
Speaker:Wilburn, and we'll see you back here soon with another
Speaker:zweiglettr podcast. Peace. Thanks
Speaker:for tuning in to the zweigletter podcast. We
Speaker:hope that you can be part of elevating the industry and that you can
Speaker:apply our advice and information to your daily
Speaker:professional life. For a free digital subscription to the
Speaker:Zweig Letter, Please visit the zweigletter.com
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