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24: A Therapist's Advice To Deeper Connection In Your Marriage | Melissa Tablada
Episode 2428th August 2024 • Ever Be • Mari Wagner
00:00:00 00:47:18

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Mari has guest Melissa Grace Tablada on the show who is a licensed marriage and family therapist to talk about how to increase connection between spouses in marriage. The conversation dives into enhancing marital connection, effective communication strategies, and the significance of intimacy in a Christ-centered marriage. Melissa shares practical advice, including the SPICE framework for intimacy and the importance of quality time and date nights. The conversation also explores how Natural Family Planning (NFP) can strengthen marital bonds and offers guidance for young parents to maintain their connection. This episode is filled with valuable insights and actionable steps to build a stronger, healthier, and more connected marriage.

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Melissa's Links

- 25 Questions for Better Connection (Freebie): melissa-tablada-s-school.teachable.com/p/questions-for-better-connection 

- 14 Day Marriage Connection Challenge (Discount code EVERBE for 15% off): melissa-tablada-s-school.teachable.com/p/marriage-connection-challenge

- Connect on IG: https://www.instagram.com/melissagracetablada/

- Inquire about services: https://www.melissagracetablada.com/contact

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Transcripts

Speaker:

Hey, I'm your host, Mari Wagner,

and you're listening to the ever be

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podcast where faith meets lifestyle.

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I'm so excited you're here, whether you're

a new listener or a longtime follower,

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I know there's something here for you.

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Pull up a chair and listen in for

insightful real life conversations

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and actionable steps on how to claim

the full life God created you for.

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If you're a woman desiring to live

a Christ centered life in today's

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modern world, then this is for you.

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Welcome to Ever Be.

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Mari Wagner: Hey friends, happy Wednesday.

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Welcome to ever be today.

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We have a special friend,

my dear friend, Melissa.

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She is actually a really close friend

of mine and was my NFP practitioner when

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Trey and I were engaged back in the day.

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Um, so she has so much insight

into marriages and families.

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She's also a licensed, uh,

marriage and family therapist, and

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she's just able to give a really

beautiful, honest, and good advice.

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Just expertise perspective

from, um, or for these topics of

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marriage and family life fertility.

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Uh, she has so many

beautiful things to share.

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So Melissa, welcome to every beat.

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Can you just give us all a little

introduction about yourself?

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Melissa Tablada: Yes.

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Thank you for having me.

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I'm so excited to be here.

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And yeah, I love thinking about our

friendship over the years since.

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2018 I think and just all

the different seasons that

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we've walked through together.

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But yes, hi ever be community.

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I'm Melissa.

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Um, my husband and I have

been married for six years.

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We have two kids.

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Our son Orly is three and our

daughter Winslet is a year and a half.

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Um, before having the kids, we walked

through our own season of infertility

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and thank God with the support of

Creighton and NAPRA technology, we

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were able to work through that and

find healing and have our children.

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Um, and so I've been always super

passionate about fertility care.

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So I am a fertility care practitioner

with Creighton, which I love so

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much and could talk endlessly about.

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Um, but before that, my primary

education training and professional

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focus, um, is that I'm a licensed

marriage and family therapist.

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So actually I work.

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I work primarily with individuals.

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It's a very common, like, misunderstanding

with my license title, but with couples

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as well, but, um, mostly I'm working

with individuals and couples from a

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Catholic worldview, Catholic lens of

the human person and what it means to

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be human and find healing and wholeness.

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and also looking within the context

of the family system, which is.

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what it means to be a

marriage and family therapist.

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I'm looking at an individual or a couple

from the systemic point of view of the

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family that they're part of, what they

learned in their family of origin,

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growing up, what their experience is

now and how we can just, yeah, um, live

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out the calling that God has for us

each individually and in our marriages.

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And so right now I'm in a season of

raising babies and running businesses

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Mari Wagner: That's beautiful.

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I love just the way that you just

described that whole system because

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there's so many different things that go

into How we approach our marriage how you

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know our relationship thrives or hurts

um, depending on our own experiences and

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what we're bringing into marriage, so

it's much more complicated than Um than

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we think um, so today we are going to

be talking about marriage Um advice for

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marriage couple married couples, but also

just diving a little bit deeper into the

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idea of building a strong Um Beautiful,

healthy connection with your spouse.

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And I think that this can be something

that people desire more of in like

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a, like a wide range of however

many years you've been married.

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It just because you've been married one

or two years doesn't mean that like you

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never need improvement in your connection.

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It could be something that newlyweds

are looking for as well as people that

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have been married for a long time.

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So I'm excited to dive into kind of like

your tips and tricks, especially from

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your perspective as a marriage therapist.

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So I guess.

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Um, first question to start off, um, as

a licensed marriage therapist, right?

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From your expertise, what do you feel

like are common difficulties that people

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struggle with or couples struggle with?

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Um, do you have any tips or

advice to remedy or avoid them?

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Melissa Tablada: Yes, this

is one of my favorite topics.

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I actually just gave a talk yesterday

also on connection and marriage.

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It's like something so close to my

heart, something that I love focusing

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on in my own marriage with the couples

that I work with, it's such a beautiful

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topic to focus on and learn in.

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So first thing I want to say is that

what I learned in school back when

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I was in grad school, and when I

began seeing clients eight years ago,

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um, on average couples will wait.

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Six years from the time that

they notice a problem until the

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time that they seek professional

support, which is way too long.

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And at that point, usually one

person is completely checked out

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and unwilling or uninterested in

doing the work that therapy takes.

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And so my first tip is don't be average.

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That's the average.

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Don't be average.

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Be proactive.

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We all have issues.

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I am a marriage therapist

with a very healthy marriage.

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And my husband and I both go to

therapy individually and together.

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We need it.

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It's good for all of us.

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We all have stuff to work on.

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We all have stuff to improve.

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I will say, um, because I am the

specific population that I work with.

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I'm primarily working with Catholic

young adult women and Catholic young

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adult couples or younger couples.

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And so something I love about this

community is that we tend to be a

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little bit more proactive about seeking.

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Healing and wholeness and

personal growth and development.

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So many of the clients that I'm working

with in therapy are in the early stages.

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They're not waiting six years.

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They're like, we're not even married yet.

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And we want to work on our relationship

where we've been married for 10 days.

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And we want to work on our

relationship, which is.

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Such a gift to themselves

and to their marriages.

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So, um, that's so good.

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It's not across the board that

people are waiting far too long.

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And even if they are like, let's say

you've been married 20 years and you're

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listening to this and you're thinking

like, oh my gosh, it's too late.

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It's never too late.

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You're never too disconnected for God

to bring, um, reunification and, and

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reconnection, but the sooner that we

can work on our issues, the better.

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Um, So specifically, I would say some of

the more common problems that people are

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coming into therapy with are regarding

communication and conflict resolution.

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Those are like the top two

things that people are telling me

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every single day communication.

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As far as that goes, there are a few

really simple communication skills that

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I teach almost all of my clients because

they're so simple and so basic, but

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unless we learned them, unless our family

of origin, taught us really healthy

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communication, then we're just modeling

and repeating whatever we learned.

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And so sometimes that's not the

most healthy forms of communication.

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I'm actually working on a resource right

now to, um, compile these like really

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simple communication skills and do that.

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Share it with everyone.

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So stay tuned for that.

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Not sure if it's exactly ready when this

is launching, but at some point, that's

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just like really simple, just a few

things, but to give people something to

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work on right now, I would say when it

comes to communication, people are often

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thinking about what they're going to say.

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And if we were to shift into actively

listening and really understanding

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our spouse, that's going to change the

entire dynamic of the communication.

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If we.

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Learn how to truly listen, listen

actively, listen to understand,

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ask good questions, seek to know

why they think what they think,

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why they feel what they feel.

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It's going to solve so many

of our communication issues.

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Um, and so a simple tool for that

is to just start asking after

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your spouse has shared something.

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me make sure I'm understanding you

correctly and then reflect back what

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you think you heard because chances

are, especially if there's a lot of

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conflict in your marriage, you probably

didn't hear what they meant to say.

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And they maybe didn't even

say what they meant to say.

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There's just so much misunderstanding

that we can clear up if we're actually

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seeking to understand what the

person is saying and really listen.

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So that's like something so simple.

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If you just start saying Let me just

check and make sure I, I get you.

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Let me make sure I heard you correctly.

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It's going to clear up so

many of our communication

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Mari Wagner: can I just say

something about that really quick?

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Personal experience using

that tip has been so amazing.

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I think I'd heard it from you.

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And then we also went to like a

marriage retreat held by the JP2

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Healing Institute in October.

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And they gave that tip too.

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And even just, they were

like, pick whatever.

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Argument or a thing that you like can't

both agree on in the last like six months

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to a year in your marriage and use it for

this and we like at the retreat used it

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and it was like We just got to a whole new

level of understanding It's not like it

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was resolved right then and there but we

got to a whole new level of understanding

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just in the first time Of using that

especially when you both I think it's

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so important when you're in conflict

resolution Like in, in conflict resolution

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mode, when you're like in the middle of

it to kind of just be like open and candid

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and like, okay, let's try doing this.

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You know, like you can just say

like, let's try this strategy.

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Cause I want to be able to understand

you and just like outline it

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right there in the conversation.

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And so even just both of us.

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Sitting down knowing like we're gonna try

this and we're gonna try once again to

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like face this issue and see where we land

It was like this like armor Was able to

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like come down a little bit because you

both know that you're coming from a place

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of like seeking to understand each Other

and you both might know like I might not

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get through to him or he might not fully

understand what I'm saying But I know he's

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at least in a place where he's like Trying

to and like actively listening and he's

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going to repeat back and I have a space

to actually clarify Instead of everybody

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trying to talk over each other trying

to like be like, that's not what I said.

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That's not what I said So

it's been really helpful

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Melissa Tablada: Yeah, I make, uh,

there's so many things that I could say.

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We could talk about this all night.

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One thing I'll say is if, if people

haven't used this before, practice it

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in a moment that's not tense first,

because it's, it's, really hard to

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practice a skill for the first time.

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When you're angry, um, you

just automatically go back

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to whatever you're used to.

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So I remember when my husband and I

started using this in our early marriage.

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Just like such a most ridiculous example.

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I asked him to grab me the peanut

butter and he was like, let me

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make sure I hear you correctly.

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You want me to grab you the peanut butter?

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And like, because we

intentionally went through like.

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Okay.

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This is a skill that we

want to get really good at.

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And in order to get really good

at it, we need to practice it in

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neutral, calm, like happy moments.

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And so I just remember him

practicing it in that moment and

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being me being like, you're nuts.

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But it was so helpful because then

we've been able to use it so often in a

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Mari Wagner: I love it.

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Melissa Tablada: higher conflict.

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And, um, yeah, it's really

that if you haven't already.

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And then just one more thing

about conflict resolution,

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because you mentioned too.

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that is something coming

up so often with couples.

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I feel that yes, communication has such.

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Um, a big part in that, but also I

think that conflict resolution has

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a lot more to do with the couple's

connection, which is our hope topic today.

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But if we are feeling disconnected

across the board or just day to day,

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it's going to be so much more difficult

to resolve conflict when it comes up,

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when it's like a bigger issue that needs

management versus if we are putting

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energy into connection and intimacy and

we have a healthy, holy relationship.

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Positive foundation to stand

on when a conflict arises.

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We're just going to naturally be a lot,

um, have a lot more skills and ability

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to work through that conflict if we

were already connected to start with.

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So I would start with building

the connection so that conflict

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Mari Wagner: Yeah, that's great advice.

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I love all that and totally agree.

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Um, moving on to a slightly different

topic, but still on the same vein of

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connection, specifically how to deepen it.

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Um, any practical tips you have

to share in general are welcome.

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But specifically, I want you to touch on.

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Conversations.

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I feel like those are something

that people and ourselves included

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have had trouble with in the past.

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Um, I know, especially for us, this

is kind of a personal situation, but

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like we spend so much time together

because we work together, we live

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together, we have the same friends, like.

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Pretty much the only thing we

don't do together is work out

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because we go to different gyms.

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And so a lot of the times we'll

sit down at a date night and

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be like, so how was your day?

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It's like, well, I was with you.

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Like, I already know what you did today.

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And even for couples who don't

work remotely from home together, I

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know a lot of times I've heard from

friends, like we go to date nights

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and it's like, what did you do?

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And it's like, I just kind

of hear about work or.

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You kind of just talk about the kids and

you kind of lose a little bit of that.

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Like, how are you individually?

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Or like, what else can we talk about

besides just like the day to day?

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Do you have any advice?

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Let's just start there

with the conversation.

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Do you have any advice on what to

talk about or like how to spark

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interesting and good connecting

conversations with your spouse?

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Melissa Tablada: Yes, I what you

named it like those questions.

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How are you?

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How was your day?

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They're just awful questions pretty

much most of the time that lead nowhere

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Because we're conditioned to know that

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Mari Wagner: Yeah.

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Melissa Tablada: questions don't mean

anything Like those questions are

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a greeting you pass somebody in an

elevator and they say how are you?

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How was your day?

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Like it doesn't mean anything

It doesn't mean you actually

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want to know about my day.

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And so we're just conditioned that

those questions don't mean anything.

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Um, and they don't

warrant a real response.

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If I asked my husband, how was your day?

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He will, it will give us no context,

no information, no connection.

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He will almost a hundred percent

of the time be like, Uh, you know,

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the same stressful, like just a

very generic, very like, okay.

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I don't want to talk about work kind

of response, there's so many better

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questions that we can be asking.

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is something huge.

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People are asking all the time.

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I have a free download with

25 conversation starters.

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That I will give you the link

so you can share it with people.

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Um, but basically things like,

how did you see God today?

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What's one thing you learned today?

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Because even if you were spending the

entire day with your spouse, you don't

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know the answer to those questions.

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So, you know, practically what

he did, you know, he was working,

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you know, he was at the gym, but

you don't know how he saw God.

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You don't know how he felt loved.

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You don't know one thing he

wished he did differently.

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So things like that we can just open

up the floor for a more dynamic,

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more meaningful conversation if we

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Mari Wagner: I love that.

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Those are, it's really just

about digging a little bit deeper

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and it takes work on both ends.

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I think if we want a more fruitful answer

from our husband or our wife, like we

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also need to put a little bit of effort

into like asking a more fruitful question.

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So I love those examples.

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And I didn't know about your freebie.

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I'm definitely going to download

that freebie because I know that

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you have a real and we saved it and

we've gone back to it on date nights.

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You have a real that's like,

Top 10 conversation starters

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or something like that.

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And I'll be like, Oh,

Melissa has this reel.

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Let's go back.

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So I'm sure I'm excited to

download the full, the full guide.

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Um, okay.

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So let's just circle back

to my first question.

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Cause I asked it in like three parts.

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Basically first question I asked was.

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Within this whole bigger question was

just like in general, now that we talked

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about, like, what do you feel like

are the biggest struggles people have

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that are inhibiting that connection?

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Like what are practical ways

to actually increase and deepen

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connection with your spouse?

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Melissa Tablada: Okay, so I want to give

three practical tools that I find really

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helpful And I find are really helpful

with my clients as well So number one if

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anyone is a Creighton user or familiar

with Creighton You're gonna be familiar

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with spice and I find some people think

spice is like a little cheesy or kind of

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roll their eyes at it But I think it's

Such a practical and such a useful tool.

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I use it in my own marriage.

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I share it with my client,

my therapy clients that have

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nothing to do with Creighton.

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So SPICE is an acronym for intimacy.

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Looking at a whole person

because intimacy is not just.

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Physical.

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It's not just sexual intimacy

is our whole selves and in

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marriage we need to be focusing on

intimacy in many different ways.

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So SPICE stands for spiritual,

physical, intellectual,

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communicative, and emotional.

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And it's so practical.

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There's so many times my husband and I

have felt disconnected that we've been

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like, okay, let's sit down, let's assess.

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Which of these areas are we doing well at?

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Are we connected in?

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And which of these areas

are we doing poorly at?

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Are we disconnected in?

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And then we can talk about, okay, so

let's say if we're feeling spiritually

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disconnected, we haven't really been

connecting in a spiritual way lately.

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What does that mean?

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How do I appreciate

connecting spiritually?

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And how does he appreciate

connecting spiritually?

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Are we going to mass together?

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Can we go to mass more together?

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Is that possible?

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Are we praying together daily?

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How do we each appreciate

praying together daily?

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Because for my husband

and I, that's different.

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And I.

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Connect most through God, most

with God through the rosary.

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And he connects most with God through the

divine office and the office of reading.

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So that having that conversation

and like, okay, so maybe some days

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we can pray the rosary together.

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Maybe some days we can do the divine

office and then we're both going to

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be growing closer to God while growing

closer to each other, even as simple as

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asking your spouse, how can I pray for you

today is incredibly connecting because.

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You're getting to know the inner

workings of their heart in a deeper

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way and understanding what's on their

mind, what's on their heart, what

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are they praying for, and it's going

to help you know them even more.

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When we think about physical, I could

talk so much about each of these, but

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physical is so much more than sex.

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Although of course for married

couples, that's incredibly important.

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Um, it that's so much more dynamic,

we need to be, you know, kissing.

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Are you kissing for more

than point three seconds.

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Um, and just in passing really quickly.

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Are you actually spending time

giving each other a long hug?

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Should never be underestimated.

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That's so connecting for couples.

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There's so much research on a hug

that's like long and significant or

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a kiss that's long and significant.

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Um, more than just a couple of

seconds can be so connecting.

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Sometimes couples are just like

passing shifts in the night,

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not even talking to each other.

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not spending time with each other.

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Just like, there's so much going on.

364

:

There's kids and there's work and

there's taking care of the home.

365

:

And there's so much going on.

366

:

So just setting aside time to spend time

together, have a meaningful conversation,

367

:

share what goals are you working on?

368

:

What are you dreaming of where,

you know, just life conversations.

369

:

Yeah.

370

:

Is so helpful.

371

:

So spice is one tool really useful,

really practical, really tangible.

372

:

The second one, everyone, I don't

think there's anyone at this point

373

:

in the world that's not familiar

yet with the love languages, but

374

:

it's again, one of those like really

practical tools that can sometimes be

375

:

disregarded as like too simple, but

it's really the simple things that make

376

:

the most difference on a daily basis.

377

:

And if you haven't taken the

love languages quiz in a while,

378

:

they definitely change over time.

379

:

So I would revisit it if

it's been a few years.

380

:

Quality time, acts of service,

words of affirmation, physical

381

:

touch, receiving gifts.

382

:

Um, at this point in our marriage,

I am for sure physical touch and

383

:

AJ, my husband is for sure acts of

service and we're complete opposite.

384

:

Most of the time when we were

dating, it was different.

385

:

He was words of affirmation.

386

:

I was, um, I think quality time.

387

:

And so we just always have to know

what is The love language of my spouse

388

:

so that I can be intentional and they

can feel connected because I'm going

389

:

out of my way when, if AJ will just

like just his hand on my leg, just

390

:

hands, just a long hugger kiss, like

I said, him playing with my hair while

391

:

we're, he's watching a football game.

392

:

Like the simplest thing makes

me feel so connected to him and

393

:

Mari Wagner: I feel like

my head is just bobbing.

394

:

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

395

:

To everything you're saying.

396

:

Cause I'm like, Yes, these are so freaking

good and I love revisiting the spice

397

:

because I feel like that's like a Nuance

that like people haven't heard but also

398

:

always love driving back the five love

languages because I agree I think people

399

:

have heard a lot about it and just kind

of dismiss it as like, oh, that's just

400

:

like Level one basics and it's like

actually it's really hard to master in our

401

:

experience We are the same as you guys.

402

:

I'm physical touch trey's acts of service

And our natural disposition I feel like

403

:

is to just initiate love in the way that

we know best so like if i'm like feeling

404

:

a moment of like butterflies in my stomach

i'm like Oh my gosh, i'm gonna go hug

405

:

him or like i'm gonna go kiss him or like

We're on the couch and like literally

406

:

my foot could just be under his knee and

i'm like so content and for him he's just

407

:

like You Like trying to love me by like

getting up and filling up my water or like

408

:

doing the dishes or like making breakfast

while I get ready And it's easy to miss

409

:

each other sometimes if we're only loving

each other in the ways that we receive

410

:

love best So it's never too simple.

411

:

Like you said it's the simple things

that I really feel like drive at home.

412

:

I

413

:

Melissa Tablada: I know Mari,

we're in the same marriage.

414

:

AJ sometimes is like, I cleaned

the whole house for you.

415

:

And I'm like, I

416

:

Mari Wagner: know

417

:

Melissa Tablada: care

if the house is clean.

418

:

Like, it doesn't mean I'm like, I

419

:

Mari Wagner: Yes

420

:

Melissa Tablada: appreciate the

fact that you put in so much time.

421

:

And I appreciate the fact

that our home is clean.

422

:

Like, it's not that I don't

appreciate it, but I don't feel.

423

:

feel connected to you like that.

424

:

I don't feel loved versus if you would

just come up and like bear hug me, I

425

:

will feel like the most loved wife in the

426

:

Mari Wagner: And that's I think I

427

:

Melissa Tablada: time.

428

:

And it's like,

429

:

Mari Wagner: was just gonna say yes

And I feel like the good the word there

430

:

that I feel like is good to use In your

marriage or even for me to think about

431

:

is like connection versus love because

I think like love is so big And like

432

:

we never like how could you not feel

loved if I like, you know We never

433

:

like don't want to make the person feel

loved but I think that word connection.

434

:

It's like, okay Yeah, sure I feel like you

are loving us and loving our family and

435

:

loving me by doing all these like chores

for us But I feel most connected when you

436

:

hug, kiss, rub my back, whatever it is.

437

:

So that's a really good distinction.

438

:

Melissa Tablada: Yes.

439

:

And so last practical tip,

again, go back to the basics.

440

:

And I love what you said

about the love languages.

441

:

It's like, people are like, okay,

but you know, that's level one

442

:

and I'm on level 10 and so I have

to do these more things like.

443

:

Actually, most of the time we don't,

we need to go back to the basics and

444

:

do the simple things and do them really

well, because even me who has been

445

:

married again, like we have a healthy

marriage, we love each other so much.

446

:

We go to therapy ourselves.

447

:

I am a marriage therapist and still,

I am generally terrible at loving him

448

:

through acts of service because it's so

hard because it's not my love language

449

:

and it's not my natural thought.

450

:

And I have to put so much energy

and effort into doing that.

451

:

Okay.

452

:

So last.

453

:

Practical, um, tool for increasing

connection on a daily basis.

454

:

there are four points of connection

generally, like this will be different.

455

:

And especially for you, who you

and your husband work together.

456

:

So it'll be a little bit different,

but generally I think about four points

457

:

of connection throughout the day.

458

:

One, when we wake up one, when we like

part ways in the morning, one, when

459

:

we come back together at the end of a

workday or whatever was going on that day.

460

:

Um, and then bedtime when

we're going to sleep.

461

:

And if we, we can either, those four

points of connection throughout the

462

:

day can make or break a relationship.

463

:

If you are at each of those points

of connection, if we think about

464

:

making eye contact, greeting each

other in a warm way, like that, we

465

:

actually are interested in each other.

466

:

We actually like each other.

467

:

We like, look forward to

that connection moment.

468

:

Um, and then embracing in some

way, a hug, a kiss, a hug.

469

:

Just the acknowledgement of the presence

of the other person where it's so easy

470

:

that the alarm goes off and you grab

your phone and you go on your way and

471

:

you haven't acknowledged each other

or, um, somebody walks in the door.

472

:

And I remember like early in our

parenthood experience, I would

473

:

be just so tapped out by the

time that AJ got home from work.

474

:

I'd be literally standing in the driveway.

475

:

He would walk, drive into the driveway.

476

:

I would.

477

:

Essentially toss him a baby and then run

away because I needed some time to myself.

478

:

And at some point he was like,

I, that doesn't really make

479

:

me excited about coming home.

480

:

And I was like, you're totally right.

481

:

And I need to figure out how to spend

the last hour of my day before you

482

:

get home in a different way so that

I'm not just like sitting, waiting,

483

:

counting the seconds until you get here.

484

:

But I'm like actually looking

forward to seeing my husband, who

485

:

I love and miss throughout the day.

486

:

And it's not just about what I need,

but it's about, you know, Again,

487

:

making this a moment of connection.

488

:

And so that makes such a difference if

we can master like those four points

489

:

of connection, doing them well, when

we wake up, when we part ways, when

490

:

we come back and when we go to sleep.

491

:

Mari Wagner: Yeah.

492

:

Melissa Tablada: can make such a

493

:

Mari Wagner: No, I love that.

494

:

Okay.

495

:

So earlier you talked about

Creighton, you talked about NFP.

496

:

So we're going to move

into that a little bit.

497

:

Cause I think it's really

important and still related to

498

:

increasing connection in marriage.

499

:

How can NFP help create more of

a connection and even like spark

500

:

a connection in the bedroom?

501

:

Melissa Tablada: So good.

502

:

Love this question because I love the way

503

:

Mari Wagner: Yes.

504

:

Melissa Tablada: my worlds come together.

505

:

Like NFP and marriage therapy

are so connected to each other.

506

:

The statistics for NFP supporting

marriage is incredible.

507

:

Like it's so compelling.

508

:

Mari Wagner: Can you just explain

what is NFP in case there are

509

:

people who maybe have never heard

about it or it's their first time?

510

:

Probably would be good to just talk

about like, just quickly, what is NFP?

511

:

Melissa Tablada: So natural family

planning, uh, we'll use the term NFP.

512

:

This is what the church gives us such a

gift as a way of planning our families

513

:

in a way that's moral responsible.

514

:

So, um, we can chart our cycles.

515

:

This is what I teach with Creighton.

516

:

We can chart our cycles, understand

our fertility, and then either avoid

517

:

pregnancy or achieve pregnancy or just

monitor health and the health of a

518

:

reproductive system in a effective way.

519

:

So when I was in grad school, I was

in a very liberal, very non Catholic,

520

:

very non NFP friendly university,

um, studying to be a therapist.

521

:

And I did a whole project to

present and like make my case for

522

:

NFP to our couples counseling class

because people didn't know about it.

523

:

And I wanted therapists to be equipped

with the information of something

524

:

that's incredibly supportive.

525

:

for married couples.

526

:

So first, for couples, married couples

who use NFP, um, use family planning,

527

:

natural family planning in their

marriage, the divorce rate is 58

528

:

percent lower than couples who don't.

529

:

Okay, of course, this is not causal.

530

:

So it's not like use NFP and then, you

know, you have no chance of divorce.

531

:

That's not what I'm saying,

but it is significant.

532

:

It's compelling.

533

:

It's a very significant statistic

and number to pay attention to.

534

:

There's something about couples

who are practicing natural family

535

:

planning that make their marriages

so much stronger and so much more.

536

:

Um, long lasting life, lifetime lasting

who use NFP in their marriages also

537

:

report better communication, increased

intimacy, um, and many other things.

538

:

So the research shows that using NFP is

supportive to our marriages, how Okay.

539

:

This is something that

couples are learning together.

540

:

So going back to spice that we mentioned

earlier, the I stands for intellectual.

541

:

This is a form of intellectual

intimacy, couples, learning something

542

:

together, learning a new skill together.

543

:

It opens the door for daily communication

about fertility, health, family planning,

544

:

and communication is also another

form of intimacy, good communication,

545

:

having good, meaningful conversations.

546

:

we're using NFP, couples are supporting

each other by going to sessions together.

547

:

Even often, I'll have the man doing

the charting, um, which is a great

548

:

way for couples to work together.

549

:

And it'd be a couple's responsibility

as opposed to birth control pills

550

:

being a woman's responsibility or like

condoms being a man's responsibility.

551

:

But this is something a couple is

working on together and being a team.

552

:

Um, Um, as far as taking care of it.

553

:

So that makes such a big difference.

554

:

And then as far as you

mentioned, like the spark goes.

555

:

when we, my husband and I give the

marital sexuality talk for our arch

556

:

diocese marriage prep, um, retreat.

557

:

And my husband always describes

this honeymoon effect that NFP

558

:

gives, especially for couples who

are using NFP to avoid pregnancy.

559

:

That means that there's a time, which

is the fertile window in the cycle where

560

:

the couple would be avoiding intercourse.

561

:

And so during that time, we have the

opportunity to be intentional with

562

:

loving each other and connecting with

each other, um, in a way that maybe

563

:

we did more of before we were married.

564

:

Before sex was happening, we were

more intentional in different

565

:

creative ways of connecting.

566

:

Then it gives this opportunity to come

together again and reunite and, um, have

567

:

this like wedding night experience all

over again, every cycle, which is so

568

:

beautiful because if we use it that way,

this like anticipation and time of looking

569

:

forward to being together again, it can be

so beautiful for keeping that spark alive.

570

:

Um, and just, yeah, having

this honeymoon effect every

571

:

Mari Wagner: Yeah, no, I love that you

talked about all that because I think

572

:

there are a lot of misconceptions about

nfp out there And I know you've talked

573

:

a lot about them on your page as well

before but I think one of them is that

574

:

people think that there's Less intimacy

in a marriage when you use nfp when

575

:

the reality is just looks a little bit

different But from what you're talking

576

:

about and probably your experience

with clients You see that there's

577

:

actually not just greater like physical

intimacy, but greater like emotional.

578

:

Um intimacy as well within a couple

Would you would you say that that's true?

579

:

Melissa Tablada: Yes.

580

:

So research says that couples who are

practicing NFP have just as much sex.

581

:

So the like frequency wise, the

amount of sex that's happening is

582

:

pretty much the same across the board.

583

:

But like we said, the quality of the

connection, the level of intimacy,

584

:

the greater, um, communication,

connection, intimacy, all those

585

:

things are significantly increased,

significantly better among NFP users.

586

:

Mari Wagner: Okay.

587

:

So now let's talk about

couples that have children.

588

:

So we don't have any children yet, so

I can't really speak from experience,

589

:

but I have a lot of mom friends and

something I hear often is, you know,

590

:

I love my spouse and when, when kids

came into the picture, things changed

591

:

a little bit, you know, like there's

more strain on the marriage or harder

592

:

times to find time to connect or date

nights just don't really happen anymore.

593

:

So how can you speak to

these moms out there?

594

:

I think young moms, especially with little

kids where it's maybe like harder to

595

:

escape for a little bit with your husband

and find those like maybe more intense.

596

:

date nights.

597

:

Uh, what advice would you give

to them to kind of find that

598

:

reconnection in their marriage?

599

:

Melissa Tablada: Yes.

600

:

I want to first say if you're feeling

that way, you are absolutely not alone.

601

:

We experienced that so much.

602

:

Um, after our son was born three

years ago, the hardest part

603

:

of that transition for us was

feeling disconnected in marriage.

604

:

And we didn't even really realize it

for a little bit, but I think about a

605

:

month or a month and a half into it at

some point, AJ said to me, like, we're

606

:

doing a great job working as a team

to take care of our baby, but I think

607

:

we're working so much like side to side,

looking at the baby, taking care of him.

608

:

We haven't actually turned

towards each other and looked at

609

:

each other, like basically since

he was born and he was right.

610

:

And that was really helpful to

just name that that was happening.

611

:

And then to come up with a game plan

of Like what can we do to reconnect

612

:

and maintain our connection as parents

now with especially with a little

613

:

baby who Everything feels urgent

because a little baby, a newborn

614

:

or young kids are fully 100 percent

dependent on you and your spouse isn't.

615

:

They're an adult.

616

:

They can feed themselves.

617

:

They can go to the bathroom themselves.

618

:

They can take care of themselves.

619

:

And so it's easier to neglect your

husband or your wife or your kids.

620

:

marriage you can get by, you

can live where your baby can't.

621

:

And so, um, dr.

622

:

John Gottman, if anyone is not

familiar with him, he's a psychologist

623

:

specifically focused on marriages and

has done over 50 years of research on

624

:

marriages, super great resource for

married couples, but he found that 67

625

:

percent of couples experienced a decrease

in the quality of their relationship

626

:

in the first three years of marriage.

627

:

Um, after a baby was born.

628

:

So just all of this to

say, you're not alone.

629

:

This is such a common experience.

630

:

And this was the number one thing

that people were coming to me with.

631

:

Like, this is a problem.

632

:

How do I manage this?

633

:

How do I reconnect with my spouse?

634

:

And so because of that, because it was

such a common question last year in

635

:

October, I launched my marriage connection

challenge for new parents specifically.

636

:

And.

637

:

Actually, like it applies to all the

challenge applies to all couples,

638

:

but the examples and the way that

the languages is just specifically

639

:

geared towards that time of life.

640

:

Cause it's such a time of life, but

it's a 14 day challenge with short

641

:

videos Every day Every day has a

theme scripture and like just a really

642

:

simple challenge that you're able to,

um, put in, you're able to have the

643

:

capacity to do these little challenges.

644

:

Even if you have a baby that's.

645

:

two weeks old, you can spend two

minutes of your day connecting

646

:

with your spouse in a certain way.

647

:

Um, and the feedback from

that was so beautiful.

648

:

I was hearing from couples that

after the first day, they felt more

649

:

connected than they had in years.

650

:

And for example, like the first day,

the challenge, and I'll share here,

651

:

the challenge for the first day is just

to make eye contact for two minutes.

652

:

But when we have a newborn, eye

contact is not happening at all.

653

:

And are we spending quality time together?

654

:

Are we looking at each other?

655

:

Are we having these meaningful again,

like going back to the basics, but

656

:

it's just so easy to get away from

the basics when we have a newborn.

657

:

Um, so yeah, going back to the

marriage connection challenge.

658

:

I have a code 15 percent off.

659

:

They can use the code ever be, um, to join

that if that would be helpful for them.

660

:

But.

661

:

Things like date nights, things like

eye contact, things like holding hands,

662

:

like really going back to the basics.

663

:

How did you feel connected to

your spouse before having a baby?

664

:

Have you done that since having a baby?

665

:

That's like a question I

would start with because

666

:

Mari Wagner: Mm hmm.

667

:

I love that.

668

:

Okay.

669

:

Can you speak to the

importance of date nights?

670

:

Um, this isn't a new concept, right?

671

:

Everybody has heard of date nights.

672

:

It's not a foreign thing.

673

:

We've all been on a date night, but

I know that sometimes even with or

674

:

without kids, the more you get into

your marriage, it's almost like

675

:

they kind of start to slip away.

676

:

And I think that like, when we are in

the dating stages, That's like your main

677

:

points of connection with your spouse.

678

:

Like when you're doing all these like

wonderful things to woo each other

679

:

and sweep each other off your feet

and then you get married and then your

680

:

points of connection are so much more

frequent, but less special, you know,

681

:

in a way like, you know, we're brushing

our teeth together or we're making

682

:

dinner or we're eating or we're just

driving to the next place or whatever.

683

:

It's just more frequent

points of contact, but less.

684

:

Butterflies are happening.

685

:

And so can you talk a little

bit about date nights?

686

:

Why are they important?

687

:

Maybe some tips on how people

can make it a priority if it's

688

:

something we struggle with right now.

689

:

Melissa Tablada: Yeah.

690

:

Being together.

691

:

All the time doesn't necessarily mean

that we're having quality time together.

692

:

If we're, we're just existing

together, which is beautiful.

693

:

Like there's something so beautiful

about just living all of the day to day

694

:

mundane moments, like you said, brushing

your teeth together and doing all of

695

:

that and like being best friends with

your spouse and going through day to

696

:

day together, but we need quality time.

697

:

We can not be, we can't maintain.

698

:

Connection just by existing

in each other's presence.

699

:

We need real quality time and date nights

not only offer the opportunity for that

700

:

quality time, but also encourage us

to put in a little bit of extra time,

701

:

energy, effort into preparing ourselves

for our spouse and presenting ourselves.

702

:

Well to our spouse.

703

:

So yes, we love each other at baseline.

704

:

We love each other as we look when

we wake up in the morning, all grungy

705

:

and everything, but it communicates

such an, it's such an active love

706

:

and communicates love and that the

other is important to us, that we care

707

:

about how they see us, that they're

an important person in our life.

708

:

When we put in a little bit of extra

time and energy, um, into preparing

709

:

ourselves for them, which often

happens with date nights, whether it's

710

:

a date night out or a date night in.

711

:

But it's easy to stop doing that

when you've been married for some

712

:

time or just busy or distracted.

713

:

And,.

714

:

The other thing with date nights is

especially like think about a date

715

:

night and anything can be special.

716

:

We just have to make it special.

717

:

It just means we're turning towards

each other and we're intentionally

718

:

spending time focused on our marriage.

719

:

I remember something I heard at a

marriage retreat when we were first

720

:

married and it really impacted me a lot.

721

:

This woman who was.

722

:

A more seasoned wife had

been married for many years.

723

:

She said early in her marriage.

724

:

She just got really comfortable and um,

you know, into the rhythm of daily life.

725

:

And she was a stay at home

mom and a stay at home wife.

726

:

And she was taking care of the home

and she just got really comfortable.

727

:

Like she would go to the gym and she

would stay in her workout clothes.

728

:

And like, maybe she wouldn't get

around to showering that day.

729

:

And at some point her husband

made a comment about that.

730

:

Like, what?

731

:

You never get dressed anymore.

732

:

You never, you know, and she kind

of got offended by that first, like,

733

:

Mari Wagner: Right.

734

:

Melissa Tablada: just love

me as I am kind of thing.

735

:

But then she also said,

well, I'm not seeing anyone.

736

:

I'm not going anywhere.

737

:

And then she realized that she was

communicating the message and even

738

:

thinking to herself, my husband is no one.

739

:

He doesn't matter.

740

:

He's not worth it.

741

:

Getting dressed for only others are

worth getting dressed for and taking

742

:

care of myself for and showering

for and she realized how How

743

:

distorted that was that the person

who was most important in her life?

744

:

Who's she loved most in her life

who she knew would accept her and

745

:

love her no matter what she looked

like But she was also treating him

746

:

as if he was the least important.

747

:

He was not worth, only other people were

worth her putting in the effort for.

748

:

So even looking at a date night that way

of like a date night could just be us

749

:

having dinner together at home, but it

just means I put care and energy into.

750

:

Being here with you and I care about

you and there was a little bit of extra

751

:

Mari Wagner: hmm.

752

:

Yeah, I love the whole idea of just Um,

making the effort to make things special

753

:

and even taking the effort to feel things

especially, you know, like I, I think one

754

:

thing we, we talk about often with other

couples is like, well, it just doesn't

755

:

feel like it does when we were dating.

756

:

Like we can go on these dates or we can,

you know, try and connect in these ways,

757

:

but it doesn't feel the exact same.

758

:

And it's like, well, yeah, you're

in a different place of life.

759

:

It's, it's not going to feel

the exact same, but we can also

760

:

make that intentional decision

to do something a little bit.

761

:

Out of the ordinary to make it special

like we would when we were dating or to

762

:

even receive it in a special way of just

like, Hey, he put his stuff down and like

763

:

kissed me like, Oh my gosh, I'm going

to choose to be like excited about it

764

:

instead of like, Oh yeah, it's my husband.

765

:

I get a kiss from him every day.

766

:

You know what I mean?

767

:

So even changing the, the, the mindset

on both ends of like, I'm going to

768

:

make an effort to do something special

and make an effort to like receive the

769

:

intention in a special way as well,

I think is, is a helpful tool there.

770

:

Melissa Tablada: Yes, we have so much

more control over our feelings than

771

:

we give ourselves credit for than we

think that we do And I think it's pretty

772

:

trendy like in social media and things to

romanticize our life but really like Do it

773

:

Mari Wagner: Yes.

774

:

Melissa Tablada: your marriage romanticize

everything your spouse does because the

775

:

only thing that that will do it will not

stop you You're still gonna see what the

776

:

problems are that you need to address.

777

:

You're not gonna ignore ignore those

don't do that But what I'm saying is

778

:

look for the littlest thing that you can

Enjoy and romanticize and make beautiful

779

:

because those are beautiful things.

780

:

Every little thing matters.

781

:

And the more we pay attention to

the little things and appreciate

782

:

them and express gratitude for them,

the more our spouse is encouraged

783

:

to continue doing more of that.

784

:

So we should romanticize every

785

:

Mari Wagner: Yes.

786

:

Absolutely.

787

:

Melissa Tablada: can

788

:

Mari Wagner: Well, this conversation

has been so helpful and so fruitful.

789

:

I know that I'm going to be taking

so much away from this conversation

790

:

today into my own marriage.

791

:

Uh, before we just wrap up and talk

a little bit more about where people

792

:

can find you, do you just have any

like last encouraging words or advice

793

:

for people that are listening in?

794

:

Melissa Tablada: Yeah.

795

:

One quote that always

sticks in my mind is St.

796

:

John, Chris's dome.

797

:

He said, when a husband and wife are

united in marriage, they no longer

798

:

seem like something earthly, but

rather like the image of God himself.

799

:

And that is what we're called to.

800

:

It's so beautiful.

801

:

And also.

802

:

We are all so fully human and We

all have experienced brokenness.

803

:

We all come from families

who are not perfect.

804

:

And so going to impact the way

that we show up in marriage.

805

:

Marriage can sometimes be very difficult.

806

:

And, um, one thing that I think is

a really helpful lens, and maybe

807

:

I'll just leave everyone with this,

is when we go through challenges

808

:

and difficulties and conflict, In a

sacramental marriage, all of that can be

809

:

used for our good and is so important.

810

:

is meant for our good.

811

:

Um, so when challenges come up,

we're meant to grow through that

812

:

and find greater levels of healing

through that experience and become

813

:

more connected to our spouse and

to God through that experience.

814

:

And so it just brings, I find that

brings like, even for me, a lot of

815

:

hope into, um, my experiences when

I'm struggling on my husband and

816

:

I's worst days together in marriage.

817

:

It just helps me have hope that of

knowing that God is in this with me.

818

:

He hasn't abandoned me and he's

going to find a way to bring

819

:

goodness out of this because he

brings goodness out of everything.

820

:

So I think that can help us

when we're just in the thick of

821

:

Mari Wagner: That was so much truth and

so much wisdom packed into that little

822

:

quote and that little explanation.

823

:

So I'm glad I asked that question and

that we just get to end on that note.

824

:

Uh, Melissa, where can people find more

of you and just find all your services?

825

:

Melissa Tablada: Yes.

826

:

So definitely you can find me on

Instagram, Melissa Grace Tablada.

827

:

That's where I'm most active,

um, services that I offer.

828

:

So I offer marriage and family

therapy services specifically

829

:

for those who are in Florida.

830

:

Unfortunately, therapist

licenses are limited by state.

831

:

Um, but I do also offer relationship

coaching services for clients who are

832

:

around the country and around the world.

833

:

So if anyone's interested in

those services, emailing me is

834

:

the best way to get in contact,

Melissa, grace, a lot of at gmail.

835

:

com.

836

:

And then lastly, the resources I

mentioned, the marriage connection

837

:

challenge for new parents, which I'll

share the link with you for, um, and

838

:

the code ever be, we'll give them

a discount questions for a better,

839

:

a better conversations that's the

free download and then coming soon.

840

:

Basics on communication

skills, because I know

841

:

Mari Wagner: Yes, that's

going to be so helpful.

842

:

All your resources are so helpful.

843

:

So definitely if you're listening

in and go check Melissa out.

844

:

Melissa, thanks so much

for being with us today.

845

:

It's been a joy to have you, um, on

the podcast for your very first debut.

846

:

Melissa Tablada: Yay,

847

:

Mari Wagner: See you next Wednesday.

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