Mari has guest Melissa Grace Tablada on the show who is a licensed marriage and family therapist to talk about how to increase connection between spouses in marriage. The conversation dives into enhancing marital connection, effective communication strategies, and the significance of intimacy in a Christ-centered marriage. Melissa shares practical advice, including the SPICE framework for intimacy and the importance of quality time and date nights. The conversation also explores how Natural Family Planning (NFP) can strengthen marital bonds and offers guidance for young parents to maintain their connection. This episode is filled with valuable insights and actionable steps to build a stronger, healthier, and more connected marriage.

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Melissa's Links

- 25 Questions for Better Connection (Freebie): melissa-tablada-s-school.teachable.com/p/questions-for-better-connection 

- 14 Day Marriage Connection Challenge (Discount code EVERBE for 15% off): melissa-tablada-s-school.teachable.com/p/marriage-connection-challenge

- Connect on IG: https://www.instagram.com/melissagracetablada/

- Inquire about services: https://www.melissagracetablada.com/contact

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Episode Sponsors

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West Coast Catholic - westcoastcatholic.co

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Hey, I'm your host, Mari Wagner,

and you're listening to the ever be

2

podcast where faith meets lifestyle.

3

I'm so excited you're here, whether you're

a new listener or a longtime follower,

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I know there's something here for you.

5

Pull up a chair and listen in for

insightful real life conversations

6

and actionable steps on how to claim

the full life God created you for.

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If you're a woman desiring to live

a Christ centered life in today's

8

modern world, then this is for you.

9

Welcome to Ever Be.

10

Mari Wagner: Hey friends, happy Wednesday.

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Welcome to ever be today.

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We have a special friend,

my dear friend, Melissa.

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She is actually a really close friend

of mine and was my NFP practitioner when

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Trey and I were engaged back in the day.

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Um, so she has so much insight

into marriages and families.

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She's also a licensed, uh,

marriage and family therapist, and

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she's just able to give a really

beautiful, honest, and good advice.

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Just expertise perspective

from, um, or for these topics of

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marriage and family life fertility.

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Uh, she has so many

beautiful things to share.

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So Melissa, welcome to every beat.

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Can you just give us all a little

introduction about yourself?

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Melissa Tablada: Yes.

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Thank you for having me.

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I'm so excited to be here.

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And yeah, I love thinking about our

friendship over the years since.

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2018 I think and just all

the different seasons that

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we've walked through together.

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But yes, hi ever be community.

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I'm Melissa.

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Um, my husband and I have

been married for six years.

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We have two kids.

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Our son Orly is three and our

daughter Winslet is a year and a half.

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Um, before having the kids, we walked

through our own season of infertility

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and thank God with the support of

Creighton and NAPRA technology, we

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were able to work through that and

find healing and have our children.

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Um, and so I've been always super

passionate about fertility care.

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So I am a fertility care practitioner

with Creighton, which I love so

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much and could talk endlessly about.

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Um, but before that, my primary

education training and professional

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focus, um, is that I'm a licensed

marriage and family therapist.

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So actually I work.

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I work primarily with individuals.

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It's a very common, like, misunderstanding

with my license title, but with couples

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as well, but, um, mostly I'm working

with individuals and couples from a

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Catholic worldview, Catholic lens of

the human person and what it means to

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be human and find healing and wholeness.

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and also looking within the context

of the family system, which is.

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what it means to be a

marriage and family therapist.

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I'm looking at an individual or a couple

from the systemic point of view of the

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family that they're part of, what they

learned in their family of origin,

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growing up, what their experience is

now and how we can just, yeah, um, live

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out the calling that God has for us

each individually and in our marriages.

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And so right now I'm in a season of

raising babies and running businesses

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Mari Wagner: That's beautiful.

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I love just the way that you just

described that whole system because

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there's so many different things that go

into How we approach our marriage how you

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know our relationship thrives or hurts

um, depending on our own experiences and

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what we're bringing into marriage, so

it's much more complicated than Um than

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we think um, so today we are going to

be talking about marriage Um advice for

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marriage couple married couples, but also

just diving a little bit deeper into the

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idea of building a strong Um Beautiful,

healthy connection with your spouse.

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And I think that this can be something

that people desire more of in like

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a, like a wide range of however

many years you've been married.

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It just because you've been married one

or two years doesn't mean that like you

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never need improvement in your connection.

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It could be something that newlyweds

are looking for as well as people that

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have been married for a long time.

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So I'm excited to dive into kind of like

your tips and tricks, especially from

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your perspective as a marriage therapist.

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So I guess.

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Um, first question to start off, um, as

a licensed marriage therapist, right?

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From your expertise, what do you feel

like are common difficulties that people

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struggle with or couples struggle with?

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Um, do you have any tips or

advice to remedy or avoid them?

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Melissa Tablada: Yes, this

is one of my favorite topics.

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I actually just gave a talk yesterday

also on connection and marriage.

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It's like something so close to my

heart, something that I love focusing

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on in my own marriage with the couples

that I work with, it's such a beautiful

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topic to focus on and learn in.

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So first thing I want to say is that

what I learned in school back when

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I was in grad school, and when I

began seeing clients eight years ago,

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um, on average couples will wait.

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Six years from the time that

they notice a problem until the

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time that they seek professional

support, which is way too long.

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And at that point, usually one

person is completely checked out

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and unwilling or uninterested in

doing the work that therapy takes.

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And so my first tip is don't be average.

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That's the average.

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Don't be average.

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Be proactive.

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We all have issues.

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I am a marriage therapist

with a very healthy marriage.

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And my husband and I both go to

therapy individually and together.

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We need it.

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It's good for all of us.

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We all have stuff to work on.

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We all have stuff to improve.

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I will say, um, because I am the

specific population that I work with.

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I'm primarily working with Catholic

young adult women and Catholic young

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adult couples or younger couples.

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And so something I love about this

community is that we tend to be a

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little bit more proactive about seeking.

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Healing and wholeness and

personal growth and development.

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So many of the clients that I'm working

with in therapy are in the early stages.

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They're not waiting six years.

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They're like, we're not even married yet.

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And we want to work on our relationship

where we've been married for 10 days.

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And we want to work on our

relationship, which is.

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Such a gift to themselves

and to their marriages.

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So, um, that's so good.

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It's not across the board that

people are waiting far too long.

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And even if they are like, let's say

you've been married 20 years and you're

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listening to this and you're thinking

like, oh my gosh, it's too late.

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It's never too late.

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You're never too disconnected for God

to bring, um, reunification and, and

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reconnection, but the sooner that we

can work on our issues, the better.

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Um, So specifically, I would say some of

the more common problems that people are

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coming into therapy with are regarding

communication and conflict resolution.

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Those are like the top two

things that people are telling me

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every single day communication.

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As far as that goes, there are a few

really simple communication skills that

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I teach almost all of my clients because

they're so simple and so basic, but

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unless we learned them, unless our family

of origin, taught us really healthy

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communication, then we're just modeling

and repeating whatever we learned.

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And so sometimes that's not the

most healthy forms of communication.

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I'm actually working on a resource right

now to, um, compile these like really

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simple communication skills and do that.

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Share it with everyone.

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So stay tuned for that.

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Not sure if it's exactly ready when this

is launching, but at some point, that's

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just like really simple, just a few

things, but to give people something to

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work on right now, I would say when it

comes to communication, people are often

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thinking about what they're going to say.

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And if we were to shift into actively

listening and really understanding

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our spouse, that's going to change the

entire dynamic of the communication.

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If we.

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Learn how to truly listen, listen

actively, listen to understand,

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ask good questions, seek to know

why they think what they think,

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why they feel what they feel.

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It's going to solve so many

of our communication issues.

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Um, and so a simple tool for that

is to just start asking after

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your spouse has shared something.

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me make sure I'm understanding you

correctly and then reflect back what

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you think you heard because chances

are, especially if there's a lot of

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conflict in your marriage, you probably

didn't hear what they meant to say.

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And they maybe didn't even

say what they meant to say.

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There's just so much misunderstanding

that we can clear up if we're actually

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seeking to understand what the

person is saying and really listen.

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So that's like something so simple.

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If you just start saying Let me just

check and make sure I, I get you.

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Let me make sure I heard you correctly.

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It's going to clear up so

many of our communication

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Mari Wagner: can I just say

something about that really quick?

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Personal experience using

that tip has been so amazing.

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I think I'd heard it from you.

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And then we also went to like a

marriage retreat held by the JP2

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Healing Institute in October.

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And they gave that tip too.

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And even just, they were

like, pick whatever.

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Argument or a thing that you like can't

both agree on in the last like six months

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to a year in your marriage and use it for

this and we like at the retreat used it

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and it was like We just got to a whole new

level of understanding It's not like it

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was resolved right then and there but we

got to a whole new level of understanding

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just in the first time Of using that

especially when you both I think it's

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so important when you're in conflict

resolution Like in, in conflict resolution

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mode, when you're like in the middle of

it to kind of just be like open and candid

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and like, okay, let's try doing this.

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You know, like you can just say

like, let's try this strategy.

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Cause I want to be able to understand

you and just like outline it

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right there in the conversation.

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And so even just both of us.

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Sitting down knowing like we're gonna try

this and we're gonna try once again to

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like face this issue and see where we land

It was like this like armor Was able to

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like come down a little bit because you

both know that you're coming from a place

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of like seeking to understand each Other

and you both might know like I might not

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get through to him or he might not fully

understand what I'm saying But I know he's

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at least in a place where he's like Trying

to and like actively listening and he's

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going to repeat back and I have a space

to actually clarify Instead of everybody

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trying to talk over each other trying

to like be like, that's not what I said.

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That's not what I said So

it's been really helpful

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Melissa Tablada: Yeah, I make, uh,

there's so many things that I could say.

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We could talk about this all night.

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One thing I'll say is if, if people

haven't used this before, practice it

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in a moment that's not tense first,

because it's, it's, really hard to

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practice a skill for the first time.

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When you're angry, um, you

just automatically go back

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to whatever you're used to.

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So I remember when my husband and I

started using this in our early marriage.

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Just like such a most ridiculous example.

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I asked him to grab me the peanut

butter and he was like, let me

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make sure I hear you correctly.

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You want me to grab you the peanut butter?

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And like, because we

intentionally went through like.

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Okay.

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This is a skill that we

want to get really good at.

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And in order to get really good

at it, we need to practice it in

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neutral, calm, like happy moments.

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And so I just remember him

practicing it in that moment and

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being me being like, you're nuts.

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But it was so helpful because then

we've been able to use it so often in a

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Mari Wagner: I love it.

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Melissa Tablada: higher conflict.

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And, um, yeah, it's really

that if you haven't already.

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And then just one more thing

about conflict resolution,

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because you mentioned too.

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that is something coming

up so often with couples.

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I feel that yes, communication has such.

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Um, a big part in that, but also I

think that conflict resolution has

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a lot more to do with the couple's

connection, which is our hope topic today.

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But if we are feeling disconnected

across the board or just day to day,

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it's going to be so much more difficult

to resolve conflict when it comes up,

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when it's like a bigger issue that needs

management versus if we are putting

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energy into connection and intimacy and

we have a healthy, holy relationship.

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Positive foundation to stand

on when a conflict arises.

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We're just going to naturally be a lot,

um, have a lot more skills and ability

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to work through that conflict if we

were already connected to start with.

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So I would start with building

the connection so that conflict

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Mari Wagner: Yeah, that's great advice.

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I love all that and totally agree.

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Um, moving on to a slightly different

topic, but still on the same vein of

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connection, specifically how to deepen it.

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Um, any practical tips you have

to share in general are welcome.

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But specifically, I want you to touch on.

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Conversations.

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I feel like those are something

that people and ourselves included

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have had trouble with in the past.

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Um, I know, especially for us, this

is kind of a personal situation, but

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like we spend so much time together

because we work together, we live

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together, we have the same friends, like.

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Pretty much the only thing we

don't do together is work out

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because we go to different gyms.

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And so a lot of the times we'll

sit down at a date night and

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be like, so how was your day?

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It's like, well, I was with you.

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Like, I already know what you did today.

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And even for couples who don't

work remotely from home together, I

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know a lot of times I've heard from

friends, like we go to date nights

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and it's like, what did you do?

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And it's like, I just kind

of hear about work or.

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You kind of just talk about the kids and

you kind of lose a little bit of that.

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Like, how are you individually?

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Or like, what else can we talk about

besides just like the day to day?

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Do you have any advice?

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Let's just start there

with the conversation.

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Do you have any advice on what to

talk about or like how to spark

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interesting and good connecting

conversations with your spouse?

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Melissa Tablada: Yes, I what you

named it like those questions.

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How are you?

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How was your day?

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They're just awful questions pretty

much most of the time that lead nowhere

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Because we're conditioned to know that

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Mari Wagner: Yeah.

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Melissa Tablada: questions don't mean

anything Like those questions are

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a greeting you pass somebody in an

elevator and they say how are you?

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How was your day?

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Like it doesn't mean anything

It doesn't mean you actually

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want to know about my day.

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And so we're just conditioned that

those questions don't mean anything.

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Um, and they don't

warrant a real response.

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If I asked my husband, how was your day?

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He will, it will give us no context,

no information, no connection.

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He will almost a hundred percent

of the time be like, Uh, you know,

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the same stressful, like just a

very generic, very like, okay.

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I don't want to talk about work kind

of response, there's so many better

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questions that we can be asking.

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is something huge.

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People are asking all the time.

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I have a free download with

25 conversation starters.

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That I will give you the link

so you can share it with people.

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Um, but basically things like,

how did you see God today?

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What's one thing you learned today?

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Because even if you were spending the

entire day with your spouse, you don't

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know the answer to those questions.

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So, you know, practically what

he did, you know, he was working,

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you know, he was at the gym, but

you don't know how he saw God.

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You don't know how he felt loved.

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You don't know one thing he

wished he did differently.

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So things like that we can just open

up the floor for a more dynamic,

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more meaningful conversation if we

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Mari Wagner: I love that.

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Those are, it's really just

about digging a little bit deeper

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and it takes work on both ends.

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I think if we want a more fruitful answer

from our husband or our wife, like we

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also need to put a little bit of effort

into like asking a more fruitful question.

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So I love those examples.

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And I didn't know about your freebie.

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I'm definitely going to download

that freebie because I know that

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you have a real and we saved it and

we've gone back to it on date nights.

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You have a real that's like,

Top 10 conversation starters

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or something like that.

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And I'll be like, Oh,

Melissa has this reel.

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Let's go back.

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So I'm sure I'm excited to

download the full, the full guide.

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Um, okay.

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So let's just circle back

to my first question.

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Cause I asked it in like three parts.

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Basically first question I asked was.

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Within this whole bigger question was

just like in general, now that we talked

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about, like, what do you feel like

are the biggest struggles people have

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that are inhibiting that connection?

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Like what are practical ways

to actually increase and deepen

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connection with your spouse?

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Melissa Tablada: Okay, so I want to give

three practical tools that I find really

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helpful And I find are really helpful

with my clients as well So number one if

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anyone is a Creighton user or familiar

with Creighton You're gonna be familiar

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with spice and I find some people think

spice is like a little cheesy or kind of

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roll their eyes at it But I think it's

Such a practical and such a useful tool.

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I use it in my own marriage.

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I share it with my client,

my therapy clients that have

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nothing to do with Creighton.

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So SPICE is an acronym for intimacy.

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Looking at a whole person

because intimacy is not just.

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Physical.

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It's not just sexual intimacy

is our whole selves and in

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marriage we need to be focusing on

intimacy in many different ways.

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So SPICE stands for spiritual,

physical, intellectual,

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communicative, and emotional.

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And it's so practical.

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There's so many times my husband and I

have felt disconnected that we've been

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like, okay, let's sit down, let's assess.

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Which of these areas are we doing well at?

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Are we connected in?

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And which of these areas

are we doing poorly at?

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Are we disconnected in?

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And then we can talk about, okay, so

let's say if we're feeling spiritually

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disconnected, we haven't really been

connecting in a spiritual way lately.

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What does that mean?

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How do I appreciate

connecting spiritually?

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And how does he appreciate

connecting spiritually?

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Are we going to mass together?

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Can we go to mass more together?

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Is that possible?

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Are we praying together daily?

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How do we each appreciate

praying together daily?

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Because for my husband

and I, that's different.

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And I.

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Connect most through God, most

with God through the rosary.

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And he connects most with God through the

divine office and the office of reading.

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So that having that conversation

and like, okay, so maybe some days

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we can pray the rosary together.

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Maybe some days we can do the divine

office and then we're both going to

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be growing closer to God while growing

closer to each other, even as simple as

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asking your spouse, how can I pray for you

today is incredibly connecting because.

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You're getting to know the inner

workings of their heart in a deeper

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way and understanding what's on their

mind, what's on their heart, what

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are they praying for, and it's going

to help you know them even more.

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When we think about physical, I could

talk so much about each of these, but

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physical is so much more than sex.

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Although of course for married

couples, that's incredibly important.

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Um, it that's so much more dynamic,

we need to be, you know, kissing.

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Are you kissing for more

than point three seconds.

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Um, and just in passing really quickly.

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Are you actually spending time

giving each other a long hug?

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Should never be underestimated.

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That's so connecting for couples.

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There's so much research on a hug

that's like long and significant or

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a kiss that's long and significant.

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Um, more than just a couple of

seconds can be so connecting.

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Sometimes couples are just like

passing shifts in the night,

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not even talking to each other.

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not spending time with each other.

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Just like, there's so much going on.

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There's kids and there's work and

there's taking care of the home.

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And there's so much going on.

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So just setting aside time to spend time

together, have a meaningful conversation,

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share what goals are you working on?

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What are you dreaming of where,

you know, just life conversations.

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Yeah.

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Is so helpful.

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So spice is one tool really useful,

really practical, really tangible.

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The second one, everyone, I don't

think there's anyone at this point

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in the world that's not familiar

yet with the love languages, but

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it's again, one of those like really

practical tools that can sometimes be

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disregarded as like too simple, but

it's really the simple things that make

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the most difference on a daily basis.

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And if you haven't taken the

love languages quiz in a while,

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they definitely change over time.

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So I would revisit it if

it's been a few years.

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Quality time, acts of service,

words of affirmation, physical

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touch, receiving gifts.

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Um, at this point in our marriage,

I am for sure physical touch and

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AJ, my husband is for sure acts of

service and we're complete opposite.

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Most of the time when we were

dating, it was different.

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He was words of affirmation.

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I was, um, I think quality time.

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And so we just always have to know

what is The love language of my spouse

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so that I can be intentional and they

can feel connected because I'm going

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out of my way when, if AJ will just

like just his hand on my leg, just

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hands, just a long hugger kiss, like

I said, him playing with my hair while

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we're, he's watching a football game.

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Like the simplest thing makes

me feel so connected to him and

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Mari Wagner: I feel like

my head is just bobbing.

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Yes, yes, yes, yes.

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To everything you're saying.

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Cause I'm like, Yes, these are so freaking

good and I love revisiting the spice

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because I feel like that's like a Nuance

that like people haven't heard but also

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always love driving back the five love

languages because I agree I think people

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have heard a lot about it and just kind

of dismiss it as like, oh, that's just

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like Level one basics and it's like

actually it's really hard to master in our

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experience We are the same as you guys.

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I'm physical touch trey's acts of service

And our natural disposition I feel like

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is to just initiate love in the way that

we know best so like if i'm like feeling

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a moment of like butterflies in my stomach

i'm like Oh my gosh, i'm gonna go hug

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him or like i'm gonna go kiss him or like

We're on the couch and like literally

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my foot could just be under his knee and

i'm like so content and for him he's just

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like You Like trying to love me by like

getting up and filling up my water or like

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doing the dishes or like making breakfast

while I get ready And it's easy to miss

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each other sometimes if we're only loving

each other in the ways that we receive

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love best So it's never too simple.

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Like you said it's the simple things

that I really feel like drive at home.

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I

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Melissa Tablada: I know Mari,

we're in the same marriage.

414

AJ sometimes is like, I cleaned

the whole house for you.

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And I'm like, I

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Mari Wagner: know

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Melissa Tablada: care

if the house is clean.

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Like, it doesn't mean I'm like, I

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Mari Wagner: Yes

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Melissa Tablada: appreciate the

fact that you put in so much time.

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And I appreciate the fact

that our home is clean.

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Like, it's not that I don't

appreciate it, but I don't feel.

423

feel connected to you like that.

424

I don't feel loved versus if you would

just come up and like bear hug me, I

425

will feel like the most loved wife in the

426

Mari Wagner: And that's I think I

427

Melissa Tablada: time.

428

And it's like,

429

Mari Wagner: was just gonna say yes

And I feel like the good the word there

430

that I feel like is good to use In your

marriage or even for me to think about

431

is like connection versus love because

I think like love is so big And like

432

we never like how could you not feel

loved if I like, you know We never

433

like don't want to make the person feel

loved but I think that word connection.

434

It's like, okay Yeah, sure I feel like you

are loving us and loving our family and

435

loving me by doing all these like chores

for us But I feel most connected when you

436

hug, kiss, rub my back, whatever it is.

437

So that's a really good distinction.

438

Melissa Tablada: Yes.

439

And so last practical tip,

again, go back to the basics.

440

And I love what you said

about the love languages.

441

It's like, people are like, okay,

but you know, that's level one

442

and I'm on level 10 and so I have

to do these more things like.

443

Actually, most of the time we don't,

we need to go back to the basics and

444

do the simple things and do them really

well, because even me who has been

445

married again, like we have a healthy

marriage, we love each other so much.

446

We go to therapy ourselves.

447

I am a marriage therapist and still,

I am generally terrible at loving him

448

through acts of service because it's so

hard because it's not my love language

449

and it's not my natural thought.

450

And I have to put so much energy

and effort into doing that.

451

Okay.

452

So last.

453

Practical, um, tool for increasing

connection on a daily basis.

454

there are four points of connection

generally, like this will be different.

455

And especially for you, who you

and your husband work together.

456

So it'll be a little bit different,

but generally I think about four points

457

of connection throughout the day.

458

One, when we wake up one, when we like

part ways in the morning, one, when

459

we come back together at the end of a

workday or whatever was going on that day.

460

Um, and then bedtime when

we're going to sleep.

461

And if we, we can either, those four

points of connection throughout the

462

day can make or break a relationship.

463

If you are at each of those points

of connection, if we think about

464

making eye contact, greeting each

other in a warm way, like that, we

465

actually are interested in each other.

466

We actually like each other.

467

We like, look forward to

that connection moment.

468

Um, and then embracing in some

way, a hug, a kiss, a hug.

469

Just the acknowledgement of the presence

of the other person where it's so easy

470

that the alarm goes off and you grab

your phone and you go on your way and

471

you haven't acknowledged each other

or, um, somebody walks in the door.

472

And I remember like early in our

parenthood experience, I would

473

be just so tapped out by the

time that AJ got home from work.

474

I'd be literally standing in the driveway.

475

He would walk, drive into the driveway.

476

I would.

477

Essentially toss him a baby and then run

away because I needed some time to myself.

478

And at some point he was like,

I, that doesn't really make

479

me excited about coming home.

480

And I was like, you're totally right.

481

And I need to figure out how to spend

the last hour of my day before you

482

get home in a different way so that

I'm not just like sitting, waiting,

483

counting the seconds until you get here.

484

But I'm like actually looking

forward to seeing my husband, who

485

I love and miss throughout the day.

486

And it's not just about what I need,

but it's about, you know, Again,

487

making this a moment of connection.

488

And so that makes such a difference if

we can master like those four points

489

of connection, doing them well, when

we wake up, when we part ways, when

490

we come back and when we go to sleep.

491

Mari Wagner: Yeah.

492

Melissa Tablada: can make such a

493

Mari Wagner: No, I love that.

494

Okay.

495

So earlier you talked about

Creighton, you talked about NFP.

496

So we're going to move

into that a little bit.

497

Cause I think it's really

important and still related to

498

increasing connection in marriage.

499

How can NFP help create more of

a connection and even like spark

500

a connection in the bedroom?

501

Melissa Tablada: So good.

502

Love this question because I love the way

503

Mari Wagner: Yes.

504

Melissa Tablada: my worlds come together.

505

Like NFP and marriage therapy

are so connected to each other.

506

The statistics for NFP supporting

marriage is incredible.

507

Like it's so compelling.

508

Mari Wagner: Can you just explain

what is NFP in case there are

509

people who maybe have never heard

about it or it's their first time?

510

Probably would be good to just talk

about like, just quickly, what is NFP?

511

Melissa Tablada: So natural family

planning, uh, we'll use the term NFP.

512

This is what the church gives us such a

gift as a way of planning our families

513

in a way that's moral responsible.

514

So, um, we can chart our cycles.

515

This is what I teach with Creighton.

516

We can chart our cycles, understand

our fertility, and then either avoid

517

pregnancy or achieve pregnancy or just

monitor health and the health of a

518

reproductive system in a effective way.

519

So when I was in grad school, I was

in a very liberal, very non Catholic,

520

very non NFP friendly university,

um, studying to be a therapist.

521

And I did a whole project to

present and like make my case for

522

NFP to our couples counseling class

because people didn't know about it.

523

And I wanted therapists to be equipped

with the information of something

524

that's incredibly supportive.

525

for married couples.

526

So first, for couples, married couples

who use NFP, um, use family planning,

527

natural family planning in their

marriage, the divorce rate is 58

528

percent lower than couples who don't.

529

Okay, of course, this is not causal.

530

So it's not like use NFP and then, you

know, you have no chance of divorce.

531

That's not what I'm saying,

but it is significant.

532

It's compelling.

533

It's a very significant statistic

and number to pay attention to.

534

There's something about couples

who are practicing natural family

535

planning that make their marriages

so much stronger and so much more.

536

Um, long lasting life, lifetime lasting

who use NFP in their marriages also

537

report better communication, increased

intimacy, um, and many other things.

538

So the research shows that using NFP is

supportive to our marriages, how Okay.

539

This is something that

couples are learning together.

540

So going back to spice that we mentioned

earlier, the I stands for intellectual.

541

This is a form of intellectual

intimacy, couples, learning something

542

together, learning a new skill together.

543

It opens the door for daily communication

about fertility, health, family planning,

544

and communication is also another

form of intimacy, good communication,

545

having good, meaningful conversations.

546

we're using NFP, couples are supporting

each other by going to sessions together.

547

Even often, I'll have the man doing

the charting, um, which is a great

548

way for couples to work together.

549

And it'd be a couple's responsibility

as opposed to birth control pills

550

being a woman's responsibility or like

condoms being a man's responsibility.

551

But this is something a couple is

working on together and being a team.

552

Um, Um, as far as taking care of it.

553

So that makes such a big difference.

554

And then as far as you

mentioned, like the spark goes.

555

when we, my husband and I give the

marital sexuality talk for our arch

556

diocese marriage prep, um, retreat.

557

And my husband always describes

this honeymoon effect that NFP

558

gives, especially for couples who

are using NFP to avoid pregnancy.

559

That means that there's a time, which

is the fertile window in the cycle where

560

the couple would be avoiding intercourse.

561

And so during that time, we have the

opportunity to be intentional with

562

loving each other and connecting with

each other, um, in a way that maybe

563

we did more of before we were married.

564

Before sex was happening, we were

more intentional in different

565

creative ways of connecting.

566

Then it gives this opportunity to come

together again and reunite and, um, have

567

this like wedding night experience all

over again, every cycle, which is so

568

beautiful because if we use it that way,

this like anticipation and time of looking

569

forward to being together again, it can be

so beautiful for keeping that spark alive.

570

Um, and just, yeah, having

this honeymoon effect every

571

Mari Wagner: Yeah, no, I love that you

talked about all that because I think

572

there are a lot of misconceptions about

nfp out there And I know you've talked

573

a lot about them on your page as well

before but I think one of them is that

574

people think that there's Less intimacy

in a marriage when you use nfp when

575

the reality is just looks a little bit

different But from what you're talking

576

about and probably your experience

with clients You see that there's

577

actually not just greater like physical

intimacy, but greater like emotional.

578

Um intimacy as well within a couple

Would you would you say that that's true?

579

Melissa Tablada: Yes.

580

So research says that couples who are

practicing NFP have just as much sex.

581

So the like frequency wise, the

amount of sex that's happening is

582

pretty much the same across the board.

583

But like we said, the quality of the

connection, the level of intimacy,

584

the greater, um, communication,

connection, intimacy, all those

585

things are significantly increased,

significantly better among NFP users.

586

Mari Wagner: Okay.

587

So now let's talk about

couples that have children.

588

So we don't have any children yet, so

I can't really speak from experience,

589

but I have a lot of mom friends and

something I hear often is, you know,

590

I love my spouse and when, when kids

came into the picture, things changed

591

a little bit, you know, like there's

more strain on the marriage or harder

592

times to find time to connect or date

nights just don't really happen anymore.

593

So how can you speak to

these moms out there?

594

I think young moms, especially with little

kids where it's maybe like harder to

595

escape for a little bit with your husband

and find those like maybe more intense.

596

date nights.

597

Uh, what advice would you give

to them to kind of find that

598

reconnection in their marriage?

599

Melissa Tablada: Yes.

600

I want to first say if you're feeling

that way, you are absolutely not alone.

601

We experienced that so much.

602

Um, after our son was born three

years ago, the hardest part

603

of that transition for us was

feeling disconnected in marriage.

604

And we didn't even really realize it

for a little bit, but I think about a

605

month or a month and a half into it at

some point, AJ said to me, like, we're

606

doing a great job working as a team

to take care of our baby, but I think

607

we're working so much like side to side,

looking at the baby, taking care of him.

608

We haven't actually turned

towards each other and looked at

609

each other, like basically since

he was born and he was right.

610

And that was really helpful to

just name that that was happening.

611

And then to come up with a game plan

of Like what can we do to reconnect

612

and maintain our connection as parents

now with especially with a little

613

baby who Everything feels urgent

because a little baby, a newborn

614

or young kids are fully 100 percent

dependent on you and your spouse isn't.

615

They're an adult.

616

They can feed themselves.

617

They can go to the bathroom themselves.

618

They can take care of themselves.

619

And so it's easier to neglect your

husband or your wife or your kids.

620

marriage you can get by, you

can live where your baby can't.

621

And so, um, dr.

622

John Gottman, if anyone is not

familiar with him, he's a psychologist

623

specifically focused on marriages and

has done over 50 years of research on

624

marriages, super great resource for

married couples, but he found that 67

625

percent of couples experienced a decrease

in the quality of their relationship

626

in the first three years of marriage.

627

Um, after a baby was born.

628

So just all of this to

say, you're not alone.

629

This is such a common experience.

630

And this was the number one thing

that people were coming to me with.

631

Like, this is a problem.

632

How do I manage this?

633

How do I reconnect with my spouse?

634

And so because of that, because it was

such a common question last year in

635

October, I launched my marriage connection

challenge for new parents specifically.

636

And.

637

Actually, like it applies to all the

challenge applies to all couples,

638

but the examples and the way that

the languages is just specifically

639

geared towards that time of life.

640

Cause it's such a time of life, but

it's a 14 day challenge with short

641

videos Every day Every day has a

theme scripture and like just a really

642

simple challenge that you're able to,

um, put in, you're able to have the

643

capacity to do these little challenges.

644

Even if you have a baby that's.

645

two weeks old, you can spend two

minutes of your day connecting

646

with your spouse in a certain way.

647

Um, and the feedback from

that was so beautiful.

648

I was hearing from couples that

after the first day, they felt more

649

connected than they had in years.

650

And for example, like the first day,

the challenge, and I'll share here,

651

the challenge for the first day is just

to make eye contact for two minutes.

652

But when we have a newborn, eye

contact is not happening at all.

653

And are we spending quality time together?

654

Are we looking at each other?

655

Are we having these meaningful again,

like going back to the basics, but

656

it's just so easy to get away from

the basics when we have a newborn.

657

Um, so yeah, going back to the

marriage connection challenge.

658

I have a code 15 percent off.

659

They can use the code ever be, um, to join

that if that would be helpful for them.

660

But.

661

Things like date nights, things like

eye contact, things like holding hands,

662

like really going back to the basics.

663

How did you feel connected to

your spouse before having a baby?

664

Have you done that since having a baby?

665

That's like a question I

would start with because

666

Mari Wagner: Mm hmm.

667

I love that.

668

Okay.

669

Can you speak to the

importance of date nights?

670

Um, this isn't a new concept, right?

671

Everybody has heard of date nights.

672

It's not a foreign thing.

673

We've all been on a date night, but

I know that sometimes even with or

674

without kids, the more you get into

your marriage, it's almost like

675

they kind of start to slip away.

676

And I think that like, when we are in

the dating stages, That's like your main

677

points of connection with your spouse.

678

Like when you're doing all these like

wonderful things to woo each other

679

and sweep each other off your feet

and then you get married and then your

680

points of connection are so much more

frequent, but less special, you know,

681

in a way like, you know, we're brushing

our teeth together or we're making

682

dinner or we're eating or we're just

driving to the next place or whatever.

683

It's just more frequent

points of contact, but less.

684

Butterflies are happening.

685

And so can you talk a little

bit about date nights?

686

Why are they important?

687

Maybe some tips on how people

can make it a priority if it's

688

something we struggle with right now.

689

Melissa Tablada: Yeah.

690

Being together.

691

All the time doesn't necessarily mean

that we're having quality time together.

692

If we're, we're just existing

together, which is beautiful.

693

Like there's something so beautiful

about just living all of the day to day

694

mundane moments, like you said, brushing

your teeth together and doing all of

695

that and like being best friends with

your spouse and going through day to

696

day together, but we need quality time.

697

We can not be, we can't maintain.

698

Connection just by existing

in each other's presence.

699

We need real quality time and date nights

not only offer the opportunity for that

700

quality time, but also encourage us

to put in a little bit of extra time,

701

energy, effort into preparing ourselves

for our spouse and presenting ourselves.

702

Well to our spouse.

703

So yes, we love each other at baseline.

704

We love each other as we look when

we wake up in the morning, all grungy

705

and everything, but it communicates

such an, it's such an active love

706

and communicates love and that the

other is important to us, that we care

707

about how they see us, that they're

an important person in our life.

708

When we put in a little bit of extra

time and energy, um, into preparing

709

ourselves for them, which often

happens with date nights, whether it's

710

a date night out or a date night in.

711

But it's easy to stop doing that

when you've been married for some

712

time or just busy or distracted.

713

And,.

714

The other thing with date nights is

especially like think about a date

715

night and anything can be special.

716

We just have to make it special.

717

It just means we're turning towards

each other and we're intentionally

718

spending time focused on our marriage.

719

I remember something I heard at a

marriage retreat when we were first

720

married and it really impacted me a lot.

721

This woman who was.

722

A more seasoned wife had

been married for many years.

723

She said early in her marriage.

724

She just got really comfortable and um,

you know, into the rhythm of daily life.

725

And she was a stay at home

mom and a stay at home wife.

726

And she was taking care of the home

and she just got really comfortable.

727

Like she would go to the gym and she

would stay in her workout clothes.

728

And like, maybe she wouldn't get

around to showering that day.

729

And at some point her husband

made a comment about that.

730

Like, what?

731

You never get dressed anymore.

732

You never, you know, and she kind

of got offended by that first, like,

733

Mari Wagner: Right.

734

Melissa Tablada: just love

me as I am kind of thing.

735

But then she also said,

well, I'm not seeing anyone.

736

I'm not going anywhere.

737

And then she realized that she was

communicating the message and even

738

thinking to herself, my husband is no one.

739

He doesn't matter.

740

He's not worth it.

741

Getting dressed for only others are

worth getting dressed for and taking

742

care of myself for and showering

for and she realized how How

743

distorted that was that the person

who was most important in her life?

744

Who's she loved most in her life

who she knew would accept her and

745

love her no matter what she looked

like But she was also treating him

746

as if he was the least important.

747

He was not worth, only other people were

worth her putting in the effort for.

748

So even looking at a date night that way

of like a date night could just be us

749

having dinner together at home, but it

just means I put care and energy into.

750

Being here with you and I care about

you and there was a little bit of extra

751

Mari Wagner: hmm.

752

Yeah, I love the whole idea of just Um,

making the effort to make things special

753

and even taking the effort to feel things

especially, you know, like I, I think one

754

thing we, we talk about often with other

couples is like, well, it just doesn't

755

feel like it does when we were dating.

756

Like we can go on these dates or we can,

you know, try and connect in these ways,

757

but it doesn't feel the exact same.

758

And it's like, well, yeah, you're

in a different place of life.

759

It's, it's not going to feel

the exact same, but we can also

760

make that intentional decision

to do something a little bit.

761

Out of the ordinary to make it special

like we would when we were dating or to

762

even receive it in a special way of just

like, Hey, he put his stuff down and like

763

kissed me like, Oh my gosh, I'm going

to choose to be like excited about it

764

instead of like, Oh yeah, it's my husband.

765

I get a kiss from him every day.

766

You know what I mean?

767

So even changing the, the, the mindset

on both ends of like, I'm going to

768

make an effort to do something special

and make an effort to like receive the

769

intention in a special way as well,

I think is, is a helpful tool there.

770

Melissa Tablada: Yes, we have so much

more control over our feelings than

771

we give ourselves credit for than we

think that we do And I think it's pretty

772

trendy like in social media and things to

romanticize our life but really like Do it

773

Mari Wagner: Yes.

774

Melissa Tablada: your marriage romanticize

everything your spouse does because the

775

only thing that that will do it will not

stop you You're still gonna see what the

776

problems are that you need to address.

777

You're not gonna ignore ignore those

don't do that But what I'm saying is

778

look for the littlest thing that you can

Enjoy and romanticize and make beautiful

779

because those are beautiful things.

780

Every little thing matters.

781

And the more we pay attention to

the little things and appreciate

782

them and express gratitude for them,

the more our spouse is encouraged

783

to continue doing more of that.

784

So we should romanticize every

785

Mari Wagner: Yes.

786

Absolutely.

787

Melissa Tablada: can

788

Mari Wagner: Well, this conversation

has been so helpful and so fruitful.

789

I know that I'm going to be taking

so much away from this conversation

790

today into my own marriage.

791

Uh, before we just wrap up and talk

a little bit more about where people

792

can find you, do you just have any

like last encouraging words or advice

793

for people that are listening in?

794

Melissa Tablada: Yeah.

795

One quote that always

sticks in my mind is St.

796

John, Chris's dome.

797

He said, when a husband and wife are

united in marriage, they no longer

798

seem like something earthly, but

rather like the image of God himself.

799

And that is what we're called to.

800

It's so beautiful.

801

And also.

802

We are all so fully human and We

all have experienced brokenness.

803

We all come from families

who are not perfect.

804

And so going to impact the way

that we show up in marriage.

805

Marriage can sometimes be very difficult.

806

And, um, one thing that I think is

a really helpful lens, and maybe

807

I'll just leave everyone with this,

is when we go through challenges

808

and difficulties and conflict, In a

sacramental marriage, all of that can be

809

used for our good and is so important.

810

is meant for our good.

811

Um, so when challenges come up,

we're meant to grow through that

812

and find greater levels of healing

through that experience and become

813

more connected to our spouse and

to God through that experience.

814

And so it just brings, I find that

brings like, even for me, a lot of

815

hope into, um, my experiences when

I'm struggling on my husband and

816

I's worst days together in marriage.

817

It just helps me have hope that of

knowing that God is in this with me.

818

He hasn't abandoned me and he's

going to find a way to bring

819

goodness out of this because he

brings goodness out of everything.

820

So I think that can help us

when we're just in the thick of

821

Mari Wagner: That was so much truth and

so much wisdom packed into that little

822

quote and that little explanation.

823

So I'm glad I asked that question and

that we just get to end on that note.

824

Uh, Melissa, where can people find more

of you and just find all your services?

825

Melissa Tablada: Yes.

826

So definitely you can find me on

Instagram, Melissa Grace Tablada.

827

That's where I'm most active,

um, services that I offer.

828

So I offer marriage and family

therapy services specifically

829

for those who are in Florida.

830

Unfortunately, therapist

licenses are limited by state.

831

Um, but I do also offer relationship

coaching services for clients who are

832

around the country and around the world.

833

So if anyone's interested in

those services, emailing me is

834

the best way to get in contact,

Melissa, grace, a lot of at gmail.

835

com.

836

And then lastly, the resources I

mentioned, the marriage connection

837

challenge for new parents, which I'll

share the link with you for, um, and

838

the code ever be, we'll give them

a discount questions for a better,

839

a better conversations that's the

free download and then coming soon.

840

Basics on communication

skills, because I know

841

Mari Wagner: Yes, that's

going to be so helpful.

842

All your resources are so helpful.

843

So definitely if you're listening

in and go check Melissa out.

844

Melissa, thanks so much

for being with us today.

845

It's been a joy to have you, um, on

the podcast for your very first debut.

846

Melissa Tablada: Yay,

847

Mari Wagner: See you next Wednesday.