Think everyone should start a podcast? Christopher Anderson disagrees. After 15 years hosting The Unbillable Hour, this law firm owner turned podcasting veteran has some brutal truths about who should—and shouldn't—hit record. Discover the one non-negotiable requirement that separates successful shows from expensive hobbies, why your most popular episodes might be hurting your business, and the hard lesson it took Christopher over a decade to learn about building genuine audience trust.

What You'll Learn:

• The single most important thing you need before starting any podcast
• Why vanity metrics are destroying most business podcasts
• How to deliver content your audience needs, not just what they want
• The real difference between speaking on stages and podcasting for business
• Why consistency beats popularity every single time
• Whether joining a podcast network is worth it (and the trade-offs involved)
• How to know if podcasting actually deserves a place in your business strategy

Resources

Guest Links:

• Christopher's email: christopher@sunnysidelaw.com
• The Un-Billable Hour Podcast: https://legaltalknetwork.com/podcasts/un-billable-hour/

Podjunction Ecosystem:

• https://podjunction.com/
• Sadaf's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sadafbeynon/

I'm not gonna go out there and say everybody should podcast.

'cause if everybody podcasts, then you know, we're back to Andy Warhol.

Right.

15 minutes of fame.

Not everybody should

podcast.

Mm-hmm.

If you don't have a message, don't do it.

Hey there, I'm Sadaf Beynon, and this is Podjunction Podcast, the

show where business leaders share how they use podcasting to grow,

connect, and build their brands.

Today I'm talking to Christopher Anderson, a powerhouse in

law, business, and podcasting.

Christopher is the founder of New Leaf Family.

A firm rethinking how Family Law is done and host of the Unbillable Hour,

a go-to podcast for law firm owners who want to run smarter businesses.

He's also part of a podcast network and a and a regular speaker at Top legal events.

Christopher, I've been looking forward to this welcome.

Thank you very much.

I've been looking forward to it as well.

Thank you.

I'm glad to be here.

Thank you.

Thanks for having me.

You're very welcome.

Christopher, you launched the unbillable hour back in 2009,

which was seriously early days, especially for the legal world.

What gave you the confidence to start a podcast then, when

it wasn't a mainstream tool for businesses or professional growth?

Yeah.

Uh, you know what?

That's, uh, I, I could.

I could, um, make up stories about what gave me a whole bunch

of confidence, um, back then.

But the answer is, uh, that, uh, the, the Legal Talk Network,

which produces my podcast mm-hmm.

Um, approached me, um, and asked me to take over a podcast where

the host had, the previous host had just basically been floundering.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and uh, I agreed to do it 'cause I felt like I had a.

Really important message to share, um, that I've been sharing it.

You know, you ask what made confidence to do a podcast.

Yeah,

I mean, I've been sharing that message by going from state bar to state

bar, airplane to airplane, hotel to hotel, um, speaking to rooms of

2050, sometimes a couple hundred.

I'm at a time and each speech, once it was over.

For the most part was over.

Like there are some that are still out there that the bar recorded and

they put it out on their website, but people don't really, after about

a year, don't go back and watch it.

For sure.

Hmm.

Um, and so, you know, the o the opportunity when was presented

to me to reach the same number of people, talk, give, deliver my

message, um, in a way that was.

Reachable by the entire country all at once.

That was perpetual to some degree.

Yeah.

Was very attractive.

Yeah.

Wow.

That's incredible.

And, and what was it that you really wanted to get out there?

What were some of the things you were

Oh, I mean, my, my main message is like, I've got two primary messages.

Yeah.

Um.

One is, you know, one is speaking to lawyers.

Hmm.

Um, and law firm owners in particular, that, um, it doesn't

have to be the way that it's been.

Hmm.

That if they're committed to having successful law firm,

that there are relatively easy.

Relatively simple methods to build that in a successful, profitable way that do

not require the sacrifice of yourself and your family and and your life the

way that a lot of law firm owners do.

Mm-hmm.

And the second message will is to law firm.

Clients, people who need the services of a law firm, which is

that disputes don't need to be settled the way that they have been.

Disputes don't need to be high conflict disputes don't need to be high drama,

and the two messages go together because the message to the law firms is the same.

Right?

It's by both sides, both the lawyers and the clients.

Thinking about law in a different way that we can achieve the results that I believe

are available to every single law firm owner out there, if they're willing and,

uh, you know, to do things differently.

Wow.

So how did you then position your podcast to stand out for those

two groups and actually serve them

Well, so the, the.

Unbillable hour podcast mm-hmm.

Really serves the lawyers.

Right.

I, it's not aimed at clients.

Okay.

Um, I don't think clients are, or were at least then Hmm.

Um, going to a network that was aimed at the, at, you know, the Legal Talk network.

Um, there are consumer facing podcasts that, um, that we've done and we, we

guest host on others and we, we, we use other platforms for reaching our clients.

Um, but you know, the message that I was pushing out back when we started

this in 2010, um, you know, so 15 years ago, that it is that, um,

message for the law firm owners mm-hmm.

That there is a better way.

Great.

And also when you started, did you already see the podcast as a

business development tool, or did those benefits emerge over time?

No, I absolutely saw it as a business development tool.

Tool.

I'm not into wasting my time.

Um, and you know, there's, there are several wrong reasons to do podcasts.

Um,

they all have that in common, is that they don't have a, they don't have a

business development, um, motivation.

Um.

You know, vanity.

I like to hear myself on the radio.

That'd be one reason.

Um, you know, there, there and there are others.

Right there, there, there, there are all sorts of what I call vanity

metrics that people are after.

Oh, if enough people see me, oh, if enough people, um, download me, oh,

you know, this, this'll be good, but without defining what good

means, um, and, you know, it's.

People tote the benefits of podcasts and that they don't involve much time

commitment and, you know, you can just create 'em and then they're perpetual.

But honestly, they do involve time commitment.

Mm-hmm.

To do them well, you need to be prepared.

Um, you know, I interview guests every week with a different aspect,

um, of their business, um, that can address needs of law firm owners that

can address law firm professionals.

And if I don't know.

Enough about what?

About the guest and their, and what their, what their message is

that I'm a terrible interviewer.

Um, so, you know, it, it does require all of that.

But so the, the answer is absolutely business development.

I don't, I have some rules when it comes to marketing and there's, there's

the same with podcasting, which is, which are, um, the first one is that

you have to have some expected result and you have to ask your users,

your listeners.

Your attendees, whatever, you know, the, the medium is.

Mm-hmm.

Um, to give you back that goal.

Um, and that goal shouldn't be watching my podcast.

Or listening to my podcast, that's what they're already doing.

So, and it doesn't have to be much like, it could be just email me.

It could be leave me your information.

It could be ask for this thing that I'm, that, that, that you can download.

But some way that I can now continue to engage with that audience,

um, and build them, uh, into an audience that follows the message

that I'm trying to put out there.

So that that message becomes over time, more and more.

Powerful.

So that's one possible call to action.

Mm-hmm.

And then once you do the podcast, you gotta see if it's actually happening.

Right.

You know, I wanna see that the number of downloads per month

are going up into the right.

Um, that, uh, that, you know, that we're, we're re that, that the list that

we're building is continuing to grow.

That the people that are returning and engaging, um, you know, all these metrics

that we hypothesize at first, then we have to check that they're really happening.

Yeah.

Um, when looking back, was there a key moment when you realized that

your podcast was actually moving the needle for your business?

Because I know you used it was very strategic, but was there a point in

time when you thought this is working?

Um, you know, I watched the metrics, so, you know, there

wasn't, there's no turning point.

Um, you know, the first few episodes I wasn't expecting much traction.

We got some, but you know, I just watched it over time and

I, you know, I really annoyed.

You know, the producers, um, don't have to have producers.

By the way, if people are listening like you, there are metrics companies Yeah.

Libson and others that, um, will give you back, um, no matter what platform

you're podcasting on, and you can get it back from, um, apple Podcasts,

you can get it back from YouTube, you can get it back from where, wherever.

Mm-hmm.

Um, you listen to your podcast.

Or whether wherever your listeners listen to your podcast mm-hmm.

You get back the statistics and you can see all sorts of things,

like how many people downloaded, how much did they listen?

Did they listen a little?

Did they listen a lot?

Did they return?

Yeah.

Um, did they, you know, if you had a call to action, you know, you can have

other metrics through your CallRail and through other, other platforms

where you can see, okay, yeah, I got this much engagement on this one.

This, this was really good.

You know?

And then you learn things like you learn.

One of my favorite learnings during this is that the shows that people really

should be paying attention to mm-hmm.

Are not the most popular shows.

Um, and the shows that are,

uh,

less important for the growth of their businesses are the more popular shows.

Hmm.

Um, everybody shows up for shows over the years about new marketing techniques.

Everybody shows up for those.

Um.

These days, every, you put AI in the title and people are showing up.

Um, but it's not what they really need, right?

Mm-hmm.

It is, is it is not useless.

It's not without value.

Hmm.

Um, but, you know, I often tell a story about my son, um, who, uh, through

elementary school, middle school, even into high school swim, he was a swimmer.

Hmm.

And I, you know, as many swim parents do, it took him to all the practices, um, and.

He hated butterfly.

I loved backstroke, which is funny 'cause as when I swam

growing up, I hated backstroke.

But, um, I was pretty good at butterfly, but he hated butterfly.

And so, you know, I often relate to people, it's like, you know, when

you get to choose what podcast you listen to, like if he listened to a

podcast about swimming, he would never listen to the podcast about butterfly.

Mm-hmm.

Because butterfly is painful, butterfly is hard, it's slow to learn.

Um, and so he would listen to the.

Podcasts about freestyle and backstroke.

Yeah.

That's what he is good at.

He's fast.

He wants to learn to get faster.

That's great.

Hmm.

Um, and that's, that's I think the danger of podcasting is that, you

know, your audience will do that.

They'll listen to the stuff that they're already good at

to confirm their greatness.

Yeah.

Um, and so it's important mm-hmm.

Um, in the podcast to deliver.

A variety of content, including the stuff they should be listening to, and

hope that they've grown enough to trust you so that they'll listen to that.

Yeah.

Um, but, uh, but yeah, the, you know, over all the metrics teach you this.

Right?

So you're watching the metrics.

You're like, oh, they listen to this.

So then you get to adjust how you deliver.

Yeah.

Um, and you get to change your mix and combine what the market's telling you with

what the message is that you're trying to deliver to the market and find mm-hmm.

Try to find a happy medium.

Yeah.

And how do you do that?

How do you help them, um, find the unpopular topics

to be more 'cause Yeah, then

you tease 'em, you just say, you know, oh, next month we're gonna be

talking about this and uh mm-hmm.

I know that sounds boring to you, but you better be there.

Um, 'cause it's gonna help your law firm in this way and that way.

Right.

You can speak to exactly where they are.

You can, you can be, you can echo the voice that's already in their head and,

and then join the conversation that they're already having with themselves.

Mm-hmm.

Um.

To kind of pattern and interrupt it a little bit.

And, but you know what it does is it also takes time, right?

Yeah.

It takes trust.

So, you know, doing a podcast for 15 years, um.

I don't know, like what percentile that makes me.

Mm-hmm.

You know, like as, as far as, you know, the, the longest lived

podcast, but I bet it's pretty high.

Yeah.

Um, and, um, you know, that you develop that trust over time and people would

be like, okay, well if he says so, I'll at least give it a try, you know?

Yeah.

I'll try, I'll try the, the healthier, um, food this one time,

uh, and see if I can digest it.

Yeah, that's a really interesting, um, what you're saying because

there's an element of your content resonating with your audience too.

Right.

So, but you are saying that over time, as they begin to trust you, they're,

they're willing to explore those unpopular or maybe uncomfortable topics, um, to

see if it does resonate anyway, right?

Yeah.

That's, that's the goal.

Mm-hmm.

Um, because, 'cause again, my message podcasting's different, right?

Mm-hmm.

Um.

If you put together friends or that I'm dating myself, but, uh,

or like what's a popular severance?

Hmm.

Um, it's a great show on Apple TV that I just finished

watching a couple months ago.

Um,

your goal generally is to get, keep them coming back.

Mm-hmm.

And so.

You know, media, traditional entertainment, media, let's call it.

Yeah.

Um, wants to give the audience more of what they want.

Now, you know, you might have a niche show.

Okay?

This one's really gives tweens who, like vampire stories,

um, what they want, right?

Mm-hmm.

And so we're just gonna keep them coming back.

We're not trying to keep, keep everybody coming back.

And I think that's true of most entertainment media.

If you try to keep everybody coming back, you know you're gonna fail.

Um, but.

Um, you know, particularly today, like 30 years ago, maybe you would've been more

successful, you know, cheers was probably trying to keep everybody coming back.

Yeah.

Um, MASH was trying to keep most people coming back.

Mm-hmm.

But, you know, today it's more niche, you know, so severance is trying to

keep a certain audience coming back.

Um, uh oh.

There's a new one about, there's always, there's always some zombie ones going on.

They're trying to keep a different audience coming back.

Yeah.

Um, but podcasts.

Are have a different goal, right?

Mm-hmm.

I think at least the good ones and certainly mine.

Um, see what I just did there?

I just called mine a good one.

Um, yeah, you want 'em coming back, but the whole point was to deliver a message.

Mm-hmm.

The whole point was to move the needle.

The whole point was to change the world and.

You can't give in to the desire to get everybody coming back

mm-hmm.

At the expense of continuing to do the education, to continuing

to do, uh, the delivery that the whole thing was intended.

And I think a lot of people do.

Like you watch, you watch several things out there.

Some of the more popular, you know, like I'm know, I'm not gonna name

names, but I'm none, I'm not one of these wonderful, great podcasts

that have audiences of millions.

Mm-hmm.

Um.

But you watch them and very often they all kinda drift into more popular mm-hmm.

Um, broad-based, watered down.

Mm-hmm.

Um, echo chamber, uh, messaging and, and I think for, for, for

podcasts that we're talking about here, that's not what we're after.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I think you're absolutely right.

As you were talking, I was thinking too that the, the

content becomes quite diluted.

It's not a core message that you're continuously communicating.

It's you're trying to, because you're trying to reach the masses, you're,

um, spreading yourself quite thin.

Yeah.

And then you're not, yeah.

You're, you're, you're achieving something different.

Yeah.

You're achieving downloads, you're achieving.

Money.

Hmm.

Right.

You're monetizing.

Um, and that's a, that's a, that's a different animal to me.

That's not what we're talking about here.

That's right.

We're talking about outreach.

We're talking about, um, delivering a message to an audience that

will then interact with you and engage with you in other ways.

Absolutely.

The podcast, for me anyway, and for what we're talking about is not the

end unto itself as it is for some.

Yes, absolutely agree.

Um, Christopher, you're also part of a podcast network.

How did that come about?

Actually, I think you've mentioned it a little bit, you touched on it, but how has

that shaped your show's reach and growth?

Well, what's nice about it is it's, you know, the, um, the reach

it, you know, I, I, I don't have to just rely on myself, right?

Yeah.

So the, the network itself, um, does its own promotion, its own advertising,

its own outreach, um, cross-promoting.

Different properties, um, on the network so that I get exposure

through other successful podcasts.

They get exposure through mine.

Um, I, uh, and what I love about the network that I'm on is it's

not particularly incestuous.

Hmm.

Um, there are, you know, I've had experience, I've been invited and

participated in some networks that.

You know, I'll be a guest on yours if you're a guest on mine.

And it's just becomes this circle.

Yeah.

Um, of

self-serving, uh, guest ships and, you know, it provides content.

And you know what, as a starting point, that's not so bad.

Right.

To get you out there, to get you used to doing it.

That's good.

You know, a lot of these that I, that I've joined over the years have been, you know,

mostly people who haven't done it before.

Um, they like being in a. Friendly environment and that's great.

But at the end of the day, what's really great about a good network

is that they are just continuing to expose your content to a wider

audience, to pick up more people that need that content, that to whom the

message is relevant and important.

Um, and it just reduces the lift on me.

Yeah.

Um, and my team to have to do that all by ourselves.

Hmm.

Could we.

Probably, um, I mean, uh, you know, it's, it's not rocket science,

but it makes, makes it easier.

Um, it makes it faster.

Um, and, you know, other things that the network provides for me is, um,

I show up, I, my guest, I, I I name the guest, we invite them, they agree,

and then we let the network know.

And

I show up.

They show up.

We have a show.

Um.

If the network produces it, network puts it out there.

I don't, I wouldn't know how to put a podcast on a platform to save my life.

Um, you know, I, now I have other people that do that for me.

Mm-hmm.

So I can focus on the content.

Mm-hmm.

And being as good a host as I can.

Yeah.

That's cool.

If there was someone listening a podcast or listening who's thinking

about whether they join a network or go solo, what do you think are the key

trade-offs that they should consider?

There are no trade-offs.

You go to a network?

No.

No.

Seriously.

I mean, the only trade off is it's solo.

You could just start today.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Turn on your camera.

Yeah.

Do QuickTime, um, or whatever's on your computer.

Some sort of recording platform.

Mm-hmm.

Um, that you've got available to you right now.

Record.

And publish.

You know, put it, you know, putting it up on YouTube is super easy.

Um, find some other platforms to put it up on and get started.

So, instant start.

That's it.

Yeah.

You know, going to a network requires a little bit of lead, right?

You have to find one, you have to see if they'll accept your

content and we'll let you on.

Um, there may be standards, um, and things like that, uh, that make it a little bit

more difficult, but you're the, the, the.

Reward for that small amount of effort upfront is, is really just,

uh, expanding your reach and teaching you what you don't know, right?

Mm-hmm.

Um, just sitting in front of a microphone and talking is not podcasting.

Yeah.

Um, and, uh, there are, there are things to learn and you'll learn 'em

faster when you have people around you who've been there and done that.

Yeah, that, that's for sure.

If you don't mind, I just wanna change angles a little bit.

How, um, that you've spoken on big legal tech stages, um,

you know, all over the world.

How does podcasting compare as a platform for influence and connection?

That's an interesting question.

Um, I don't, I don't know.

Mm. Um.

Um, I don't know.

How do apples compare to hot dogs?

I don't know.

Um, they're both delicious.

Um.

Those are just two different animals, and I don't think, one,

I don't think they're exclusive.

Hmm.

Um, you know, could you do one without doing the other?

Sure.

If you do both, they amplify each other.

Um, you know, we're, we're even gonna try a concept with my podcast.

Hmm.

Um, coming up.

Not ready to fully announce it yet, so I'll just talk about it.

Okay.

In broad terms.

But we're gonna take the podcast live.

Um, and so combining the ideas.

Um, but you know, like I said before, the problem with speaking on stages,

no matter how big the stage, um, you know, I've been, I've been on

stages with audiences of over 3000.

Hmm.

Which, you know, it's nothing, right?

You know, it's, it's not a stadium, right.

It's not an arena, but it's when you walk in front of you, tell you what, when you

stand on the stage for the first time in front of 3000 people, you feel it.

Mm. Um, and.

The truth is that that's one and done.

Yeah.

You, if you're really good, you'll reach those 3000.

Some people in that 3000, you know, some people will be looking at their

phone, some people will thought they were in the different room, whatever.

But you know, you'll reach a certain percentage of the people,

um, and it's one and done.

And.

It's really hard to find out who was in the room.

Hmm.

Um, and to, you know, get good engagement with them.

But it's also

more powerful.

There's nothing like a live audience.

Right.

The production is more energized.

The performer or entertainer or mm-hmm.

Podcaster is more energetically aligned.

Like the, the vibrations of the audience and the, and the speaker meet each other.

Every show is different and, and you're able to reach people more deeply.

No, I don't care.

You know?

Mm-hmm.

How much podcasting you've done staring at a screen.

Um, is not the same.

Yeah.

And you know, we're, we're well past.

You know, ev every every episode we do is like being in a room of thousands, right?

We get thousands of downloads

Hmm.

Every month.

Um, but you don't feel that energy.

No.

In fact, you don't feel any different if you're getting

10,000 downloads or a hundred.

Um, it's the same.

You're staring at a screen.

And you know, if you ever do a live podcast, um, which I've done, that's

not even any better because by the time you've got a thousand people

on, you can't see any of them anyway.

Yeah.

It's just a number at the bottom of the screen.

Yeah, that's great.

Um, so they serve different purposes.

So yeah, the energy quality, I think of a live performance, live

presentation can be really good.

Mm-hmm.

It can also be really bad.

There, there are bad audiences and bad days.

Um.

And you know, if you do your podcast and it's really bad, you just say,

you know what, let's do that again.

Yeah.

And you put out the good one.

But when they're really good, they're really good.

But the problem then is it's over.

Right.

And even if your presentation was recorded, the truth is that people

don't really go back and watch recorded presentations very much.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Whereas the podcast, like, I think I said at the beginning, like, you

do that, it's not one and done.

It's one and done and done and done and done and done and done and done and done.

It's like you, you, it has a huge multiplier effect.

Yeah.

You get the audience that downloads that month, you get the audience

that downloads your back catalog.

I'm always shocked at how much back catalog downloads

mm-hmm.

We get.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and for our listeners, that's just, uh, when people, like people learn about.

The show and come to the unbillable hour for the first time today, and

then they come next month and they realize, oh, I really like this.

What else has this guy done?

Yeah.

And it'll go back through all the previous shows and again, usually

download the freestyle and, uh, avoid the, the, the butterfly.

Yeah.

But,

uh, it still, they'll, they'll download old stuff.

So, you know, stuff I recorded years ago.

Hmm.

Um.

It still has power, and that's different.

Right.

You don't get that from live presentations, so Yeah.

It's, it's hotdog and apples.

Yeah.

Um, or apples and hotdogs, but, uh, but they both have their place.

Hmm.

What lessons have you learned about building connection then

with your audience, whether it's digital or in person?

Consistency.

Hmm.

Right.

I think the biggest lesson is, is that.

You gotta, you gotta get 'em on multiple platforms.

Mm-hmm.

Um, you've gotta be out there doing multiple things, um, so

that they see you not just in the podcast, but they see you live.

They see you in print, they see you by email, they see you on the

internet, they see you in social media.

Um, and your message, that message is being delivered across

all those different platforms.

Mm-hmm.

And it's a consistent message.

And then the other, you know, the other thing is that you're

delivering consistently.

Like you, for you, you asked earlier about what advice to people that are

thinking about doing a podcast and also whether they should go with the network.

Well, one of the cool things about the network is like, if I

don't, I'm not feeling it this month, I'm just like, I'm busy.

I don't feel like doing it.

Um hmm.

I got them calling me going, Hey, where's your, where's your episode?

You know, or even better, like these days, I mean, it's, we're

booked, the studio's booked.

I'm booked, I think I'm booked in the studio for the rest of the year.

Hmm.

So, you know, if that date's coming, I better have a guest.

I better have some content.

Um, and uh, you know, it gives you that sort of accountability and a little

bit of a goose to, to keep moving Yeah.

Forward.

Um.

So, yeah.

But it's, it's, yeah.

And that, and that gives you that consistency, right.

Because your audience, if you don't, if you don't show up

Hmm.

When you're supposed to, they, they'll go find somebody else who will.

Yeah.

Great.

Um, Christopher, what would you say to professionals, maybe in law, finance,

healthcare, who are still hesitant or on the fence about starting a podcast?

I think, you know, if you have to ask yourself why you're on the fence.

Mm.

Right.

This is not, I'm not gonna go out there and say everybody should podcast.

'cause if everybody podcasts, then you know, we're back to Andy Warhol.

Right.

15 minutes of fame.

Um, not everybody should

podcast.

Mm-hmm.

If you don't have a message, don't do it.

If you're thinking about it as advertising, don't do it.

Hmm.

Um, you know, so I'm pushing people.

To some extent to the other side of the fence.

Um,

however, on the other hand, if you find yourself creating content already,

you do have a message and you're doing tiktoks and you're doing live talks,

and you're doing reels and you're doing other kind, and you're doing

social media posts on LinkedIn on.

Facebook on meta, um, on ig, uh,

and you're doing email blasts and, and you're doing paid search and all

this other stuff, and you've got a message you want to get out there.

Like, to the extent that it's not just another advertising, but you wanna

longer format to deliver your message more deeply to your audience or the

audience that you wanna build, then do it.

Right.

But, uh, and, but then do it with a purpose.

What is, what are you trying to achieve?

How do you know you'll get there?

Um, and if you've got that, then, then do it.

It's not difficult, right?

It's not technologically challenging.

It's not technically challenging.

However, showing up, you know.

On a regular basis and creating that content so that the audience who expects

it gets it delivered and having that message out there, it's also not easy.

If it was easy, everybody would do it.

Yeah.

Um, so I guess my, my advice, you know, your question was what advice do you have?

Is, is, is.

If you have a reason, then do it.

Hmm.

And if you don't, then don't, like, it's not magic pixie dust.

Yeah.

Um,

and you don't, not everybody needs to add some podcasts to what they're doing.

Mm-hmm.

Um,

but if you have a message and you, you, you'd like to find a way to

deliver it in a different way to your audience, then by all means.

Yeah.

I like that.

'cause I think sometimes it can, people can, can get caught up in trends.

Yeah.

And everyone's doing it, so I gotta have one too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, absolutely.

And I, yeah, I think that clouds that, that creates a lot of noise.

Yes, absolutely.

Christopher, this has been really insightful for me.

Thank you for joining me today.

It's my pleasure.

Thanks for having me on.

I really appreciate the questions.

Oh, no, you're very welcome.

But before you go, if someone wants to connect with you or tune

in to the Unbillable Hour podcast, where should they go to do that?

Okay.

So yeah, if you want to connect with me mm-hmm.

Um, you can just email me at christopher@sunnysidelaw.Com.

Um, and, uh, we will be glad to respond to that, the Unbillable Hour podcast,

which I recommend if you're a law, particularly if you're a law firm owner.

Yeah.

Or you just wanna listen to how, you know, how a podcast is done.

Well, um.

You can, you can find us on Legal Talk Network.

You can find us on Spotify.

You can find us on um, YouTube, uh, apple.

Um, but uh, the main one is you can go just to

//legaltalknetwork.com/podcasts/un-billable-hour/ or just go to Legal Talk Network and

type in Un-billable and you'll find us.

Um, and uh, that's where all the shows are, um, all the way back for 15 years.

So.

Amazing.

Thank you.

That's how you reach us.

Excellent.

To those listening, all of Christopher's links are in the show description.

Awesome.

And if you've been wondering whether podcasting could help you connect

more deeply, build credibility.

Or grow your business like it has for Christopher.

I hope this this episode has given you a fresh lens and maybe

even the nudge to give it a shot.

Thanks for listening, and bye for now.