Shownotes
In this episode, we explore how yoga practices such as self-awareness, movement, and breath can help navigate grief. Edy shares her personal journey and how it guided her to develop therapeutic practices for others. The discussion includes how grief manifests in the body, the importance of movement and breath in emotional release, and practical tools for therapists to aid clients. We discuss innovative concepts like the Liberation Protocol and sexual grief, offering listeners insightful strategies to handle grief.
MEET Edy Nathan
Edy Nathan MA, LCSWR is an author, public speaker, and licensed therapist. She is an AASECT-certified sex therapist, hypnotherapist, and certified EMDR practitioner with more than 20 years of experience. Edy earned degrees from New York University and Fordham University, with post-graduate training at the Ackerman Institute for Family Therapy. She practices in New York City. In her expertise as a grief therapist, she interweaves her formal training as a psychotherapist with breathwork, guided imagery, ritual, and storytelling. Trauma, abuse, and grief cause the soul to become imbalanced: The goal of the work is to find emotional calibration or balance to defy the depth of darkness and the grip grief often has on the psyche. She believes that everyone experiences grief throughout their lives. Grief is not just about the death of a loved one, but the losses we experience in life.
Find out more at Edy Nathan and connect with Edy on Facebook, X, and Instagram
Unmasking the Pain of Loss: Helping Clients Identify & Work with Grief
Trauma-Informed Yoga for Therapists: A Practical Approach
- Understanding how the body holds grief
- The concept of sexual grief
- Empathy and self-awareness in grief
- Practical breathing techniques for anxiety
- Understanding anxiety and the nervous system
- The power of journaling for grief
- Breath work practices for self-regulation
Connect With Me
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Facebook: Yoga In The Therapy Podcast
Join the private Facebook Group: Bringing Yoga Into the Therapy Room
TikTok: @YogaChris58
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How To Build Competence and Confidence in Integrating Yoga Into the Therapy Room
Transcripts
Chris McDonald: Grief is a journey, not a destination. So how can yoga practices like building self awareness, movement, and breath help us to navigate its waves? In this episode, I sit down with Edie Nathan, a renowned grief therapist and author, to explore how her own experiences with grief helped guide her to develop practices to help others navigate it.
We'll discuss how the body holds grief, the power of movement and breath in releasing emotional pain, and the unique ways that people experience grief. She's also going to share some practical tools that therapists can use to help clients process loss. Tune in for a heartfelt discussion on how integrative practices can support deeper self awareness and emotional release through movement and breath.
On today's episode of Yoga in the Therapy Room podcast. Stay tuned. Welcome to Yoga in the Therapy Room, the non traditional therapist guide to integrating yoga into your therapy practice. I'm Chris McDonald, licensed therapist and registered yoga teacher. This podcast is here to empower therapists like you with the knowledge and confidence to bring yoga into their practice safely and ethically.
So whether you're here to expand your skills, enhance your self care, or Or both. You're in the right place. Join me on this journey to help you be one step closer to bringing yoga into your therapy room.
Welcome to the Yoga in the Therapy Room podcast, the non traditional therapist's guide to integrating yoga into your therapy practice. I'm your host, Chris McDonald. In today's episode, we're talking about the universal emotion we all experience, and that's grief. Grief is a deep and often challenging experience for all of us to manage.
But grief isn't just emotional, it also lives in the body, affecting our breath, our posture. our relationships, and can impact our overall sense of well being. But what if we could use movement and breath as tools to help release emotional tension? Today I'm joined by Edie Nathan, a grief therapist, speaker, and author who brings a wealth of knowledge on navigating loss.
Together we'll explore what can block grief and how shifting our approach to grief through curiosity can help us on the path to healing, whether you're a therapist looking for new ways to support grieving clients, or if you're someone on your own journey through loss, this conversation is here to offer insight, validation, and practical tools for healing.
Welcome to the Yoga in the Therapy Room podcast, Edie. Oh, it's so good to be here, Chris. Yeah, so happy to have you. Can you share with listeners how you first discovered yoga?
Edy Nathan: Well, I was I was a very big girl at a very young age, and my parents did everything to try to get me to be a thinner person. So, they sent me to fat camp.
That's just what it was called at the time. I mean, no ill will toward anyone. One, but that's where they sent me and that was the first place that I learned yoga. And it was, it was very freeing and it was actually quite a metamorphosis for me because I felt so locked in a body that, um, was uncomfortable often and was certainly being judged a lot more than I even care to share.
There was a realization that I was actually. quite flexible and that even though I had the abundance of my protective weight that I could learn to flow and I could do backbends and I could do headstands and it didn't matter. My weight didn't matter.
Chris McDonald: Your weight didn't matter. That's powerful. Yeah.
That's beautiful. So what interested you in learning more about grief and sharing that with the world? Mm hmm.
Edy Nathan: Sure. So it's never easy to lose a loved one and everyone's response to those losses are their own and when I was 27, I lost my partner and we had been together for two years. The first year he was an actor and he was traveling and acting all over and the second year he was dying.
And when he died, I was 27 and I was like, Oh, now what am I gonna do? What is going on here? And what happened was I looked for groups, I looked for people I could talk to, and what I learned was that truly the commentary then was, don't worry darling, you're young, you'll find someone else, and that was so the wrong answer, and I was in the corporate world, I mean, that's what I was planning to do, I was going to go into the corporate world, Training and I stopped all of that.
I went back to school. I got a master's degree and said, you know, I need to learn about this grief thing and I need to learn how to put a language to it that actually makes sense that is available to anyone and isn't structured by finite stages that didn't make sense to me because they were actually written by it.
Kubler Ross for the dying, not for the living grieving. And so I, uh, that's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so now I, um, I wrote, I wrote a book on it many years later and realized that, that grief, as we all know, is non linear. It doesn't follow a path. And we wanted to, gosh, it would be so good if we knew we're going to get, yeah, right.
We're going to get into grief and we're going to. Follow, you know, it's a flow chart and I'm
Chris McDonald: right here now. I know it's coming. Okay. I'm done with that. And,
Edy Nathan: and it is, it's, you're, you're right. It's like, okay, I'm done holding this posture right now. Okay. I've got 30 seconds left before we change poses. And it's like, nope, nope.
There is no change in pose when walking with grief. When walking with grief.
Chris McDonald: Yeah. And it just reminds me, I'm in a grief yoga training right now, and Oh, are you? David Kessler came in there. Oh, yeah. He's awesome. But he talked about things not to say to people. At least you were young. I imagine that's what came across to you.
Because anytime we say at least, that's minimizing the grief.
Edy Nathan: Totally. Yeah,
Chris McDonald: that just stuck with me.
Edy Nathan: And young, too, is minimizing. Yeah. Because it's almost saying, right? It's saying, it's saying, well, you're young, so you don't, you shouldn't be grieving.
Chris McDonald: You're good. Yeah. I feel like there's a lot of ways that grief can get blocked because people don't know what to say or they say those things that can really just shut people down.
Totally.
Edy Nathan: Yeah, that's exactly right.
Chris McDonald: Have you found other ways that grief gets blocked?
Edy Nathan: So when you ask about other ways that it gets blocked, are you thinking about the body? Are you thinking about how we live in the world? There's a lot of ways that I can go with that.
Chris McDonald: Yeah, either way. Yeah, I think both, so.
Edy Nathan: Well, so certainly we know, we know, and you know, even in terms of yoga, how when the body is stuck or not able to move into a certain position or pose, that there's a message there, that there's communication that is going on between your body, your soul, your psyche, and your, you know, certainly the emotions, and we know that the gut holds emotions and the gut holds grief.
I mean, it's a place where grief loves to reside. Grief can reside in muscle aches. Grief can reside in the throat chakra being completely closed. Grief can reside in the shoulders. I mean, it, it loves to traverse the body. And, and so in terms of that, and how does it get held, it's going to be different for everyone.
I, I say, you know, grief is like your fingerprint. It, no one experiences it in exactly the same way. Your pain points are going to be different. Based on your family of origin, based on your education, based on how healthy or unhealthy you are or have been, based on how much exercise you do or don't do. So you know, there's a lot of places where grief can lodge itself and there are a lot of places where when you notice it, when you breathe into it, when you become still with it, when you decide, Oh, I'm, I'm going to just, I'm going to sit with this and I'm going to let myself breathe.
into it and I'm not going to be afraid of it. Instead, I'm going to allow it to support my breath and when I release the breath, I'm going to accompany an image. Now the image that just came out of me when I have thought of my struggles with grief was like a ball of fire. And so I released that ball of fire that Exists sometimes in my gut that causes my tummy to burn and I, I summon it and I blow it out and that breath of the, the, the release breath actually relaxes not only the body, but the nervous system, you know, and allows grief, the part of grief that we want to push down and not recognize it allows it to be recognized and it allows it to flow.
out.
Chris McDonald: I know you said, how does grief get blocked in the world as the other path to that we could talk about? So how does it get blocked?
Edy Nathan: Well, it can be a life stopper for some folk, right? And, and it depends on the kind of grief, you know, we can talk about the grief that occurs when you lose a loved one.
And that's been the focus right now up to this point, I'm currently working on another book called sexual grief. I don't know that that's the title, but the sexual grief effect is an idea that, you know, I've been working on as a, as a sex therapist and as someone who integrates certainly the body and the soul and into the work of grief that the people who have struggled seemingly in my practice struggled the most.
Um, When I go out and I speak to audiences, one of the things that they, they, they, they say is, you know, the, when someone is a survivalist from a predatory event, what happens with the grief that they hold in their body really often doesn't get attended to, you know, you, and so I really look at this sexual grief as a grief that is a natural response to a sexually event.
traumatic imprint that has happened to someone and it comes from some kind of event that occurred either from an external source like another human or it could be situational because of your, of how you were raised perhaps and this, this kind of grief kind of needs to be liberated. And, uh, so when it's not liberated, the way that we get stuck with it is in our bodies, maybe we get very tight, maybe the lower back really affects us, but it also affects how we live in the outside world, how successful.
we are, how we learn, how we retain information or not, how we hold friendships or intimate relationships. And that can come from and out of the sexual grief effect.
Chris McDonald: Sounds like the impacts it can impact every part of a person's life. You got it, Chris. Yeah. You got it. You know, I've never heard it called sexual grief.
I think that's interesting.
Edy Nathan: Yeah. It's an innovative term that I've created and it makes sense. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Really trying to get this message out because people, you know, people can be working on the traumatic imprint that affects them. What I'm looking to do is find a way to help people become more specific as to what's really going on.
And this grief piece is being, has been missed, you know, we can talk about doing these exercises, going to therapy and all of this helps. It all helps, but we also need to understand that if someone is imprisoned by something that has gone down in their lives, that has stopped them or interrupted their lives, movement can certainly help, but we need to help them find a way to no longer be imprisoned.
That's why I've created what's called the Liberation Protocol, which are tools and strategies that we can use. that work through hostage negotiation strategies so everyone learns how to negotiate for their own freedom.
Chris McDonald: That's wonderful. So it sounds like really empowering practices.
Edy Nathan: It is. It's all, it's empowering and it incorporates.
The body, the mind, the psyche, and one's spirituality, whatever that means. It's not for me to identify, but there are many folks who are spiritual. It doesn't mean they're religious. And I really want to be able to, you know, there's no judgment here. It's just, it's a, it's an idea and some people choose to explore it and some people don't and all is good.
Chris McDonald: Yeah. So how can increasing self awareness help people move through grief?
Edy Nathan: So when you are able to identify what's going on with you and think, oh, I'm experiencing anxiety right now, oh, my back is killing me, or the soles of my feet hurt, instead of just thinking what's wrong with me, what would happen if you also asked, is there grief there?
Is there something that is also going on within me that I, that I need to look at or face. And yeah, it could be truly that you have a backache. You just carried a hundred pound box and your back hurts, you know, and then it could also be something that keeps kind of knocking at your door and, you know, the back carries so much.
And so what, what's my load. And what am I carrying? And what we often don't want to do is look at or step into or partner with things that we don't want to talk about or look at. And grief is one of those, especially if you've been struggling and it's perhaps because of the loss of a loved one or perhaps it's because you didn't get that job you thought you were going to get and you didn't, didn't interview the way you imagined you were going to interview or you, you've had multiple breakups and What is common among all of those breakups is you it's time perhaps to start to look at is there a kind of grief in you that's holding you back and maybe it's less about how to get to the other end and think it's going to be over but rather engaging with it like a partner and being curious and the curiosity is the first strategy to the liberation protocol and if we can just be Curious, like in a pose, to be curious.
What's happening with my breath right now? As I struggle to perhaps stay in this, what is going on with my struggle? Am I saying, get out, get out? Or am I saying, breathe into it? Or am I saying, somebody help me? Or am I just wanting to collapse to the floor and say, just let me? Let me be. And that those are decisive questions of curiosity instead of just shutting down.
Chris McDonald: Yeah, questions of curiosity. So it sounds like, so the self awareness is the beginning point of the liberation protocol. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And what is the next step with the protocol?
Edy Nathan: The first is that that curiosity and the next is Empathy, and it is empathy that is not so much self serving as it is being able to care for the part of you that's hurt.
And it's, I call curiosity the radical curiosity. I call empathy with awe, because it is going in with awe. And there's something that is a Buddhist framework. which is called Shoshin, it's Japanese, and it means beginner's mind. And the idea of entering into any of the protocol, the liberation protocol, in each of the different strategies is to go in with that beginner's mind to say, I think I know, and I'm sure you know a lot, and how can I come in More innocent, more, oh, I know what empathy is, okay, but what about empathy that is odd, that has an awe to it, an empathy that has kindness, an empathy that wants to not indulge, but actually care.
Empathy that cares, yeah. And doing it, and procuring that empathy with your awesomeness, and with Respect, because I think of awe, in awe, but in awe of empathy
for what it can do to help us.
Chris McDonald: Therapist, have you noticed the limits of talk therapy and you're wanting to explore a more somatic approach with clients? Do you want to add more trauma informed body based tools to help your clients regulate their emotions more effectively? Join me for Trauma Informed Yoga for Therapists, a practical approach, a free 45 minute online training designed to help you bring trauma informed yoga into the therapy room in a way that supports nervous system regulation and healing.
In this training, you'll learn three simple yoga techniques to support nervous system regulation, trauma informed ways to introduce yoga into therapy, a short practice you can start using immediately. Don't miss this opportunity to deepen your skills and expand your therapeutic toolkit. Save your spot now.
Go to hcpodcast. org forward slash trauma informed yoga. That's hcpodcast. org forward slash trauma informed yoga. Trauma informed yoga. You're also welcome to get the link in today's show notes. I will also be, I will also be sharing how you can sign up for my yoga basics course for therapists after the training.
See you there.
So where does movement come in with the liberation protocol?
Oh, it's all
Edy Nathan: over
Chris McDonald: it.
Edy Nathan: All over it. So I've kind of brought it in, even as I've described it. So the curiosity of being in a pose. It is, you know, when I think of yoga, I think truly of it as liberating parts of the self, of liberating the body of, of moving either, you know, in flow or to one's own flow, or, you know, depending on your practice and what you practice and how you practice it, it can take on so many different dimensions.
And the idea, you know, of any of the poses, any of the poses that it, that they are. An opening up and even the child's pose, which doesn't feel like you're opening, but actually you're, you're going in as you are going in, you're opening up and that opening up is okay. I'm in my child's pose, and my, you know, I, I will sometimes not do it completely correctly, and I'll put my hands up, but I will create an encasement, and that's how it feels.
It feels like I'm creating an encasement, and I am creating my own safe space, because truly, no one can really create. safe space for me, but me, and it's on me to do so, and so there I am creating this safe space for myself, and I'm going inward, and it is so expansive. It is talking to all the different parts of me that just want to be connected to self.
Yeah, well, that sounds really deep, too. I think it can be, but you know, grief is deep. You know, it's, it's right? Grief is deep. You're shaking your head, so I can see it in you. I can see it in your face, Chris. Yeah, grief is a big deal.
Chris McDonald: It is. And I find that, you know, I've told several people that I'm taking this grief yoga training, and people have this look like one lady goes, grief is scary.
But I think that that's very common, isn't it? That people are afraid of grief. Have you experienced that as well?
Edy Nathan: Oh,
Chris McDonald: yeah,
Edy Nathan: absolutely. Grief is, it's terrifying, you know, and what we know is that when you avoid the anxiety, because anxiety is one of my 11 phases of grief, I have broken down the phases of grief in my book, It's Grief, and in It's Grief, those 11 phases and one of them is fear and anxiety.
What we know about anxiety is Because I've experienced it. It's like, get away from me, get away from me. I don't want to feel it. I don't want my heart pounding. I don't want the sweaty palms. I don't want sweat rolling down my back. I don't want to feel my teeth grinding. I don't want to feel like I can't focus.
Oh my god, this feels horrible. It just feels terrible. And the more we try to run from it, the bigger it gets. If we decide to step into it and we go, okay, here I am. Yep, I'm going to feel what I'm going to feel. And I'm going as hard as it is, I'm going to try to regulate my breathing. And the way that I'm going to do this is, because usually when you're anxious, if you say to yourself, I can't breathe, I can't breathe.
I don't know. Have you ever heard somebody say that when they're anxious, I can't breathe. Right. And the chest can be
Chris McDonald: constricted.
Edy Nathan: Yeah. So I didn't come up with this. Wish I had, but I didn't, you know, so I don't know who I borrowed it from, but I think it's brilliant. And that is okay. So you say you can't breathe, you can't breathe, you can't breathe, taking a breath and hold it and hold it and hold it.
And then let it go very, very slowly like this sssss.
Now, what you have just told your brain, Chris, is if you were able to take in a breath, hold it and let it go. Were you breathing? Yes. So you've really just you know redone the message, you've changed the cognitive message, and you've gone from a negative cognitive message of I can't breathe to a more positive one.
Oh. I held my breath. I let it go slowly. I'm breathing. I can breathe. So that brings some calm, I'm sure, to the nervous system. You bet. Yeah, that nervous system, it starts to become a little less dysregulated and a little more regulated and The nervous system is very much part of the brainstem, which is like this area of the neck, and it's connected to the spine, and it's connected to the brain, and it's a whole rigmarole that I'm not going to go into, but if you want to know more about the nervous system, and And all of this, look up Dr.
Stephen Porges work. His name is spelled P O R G E S, Dr. Stephen Porges, if anybody is interested in this whole nervous system piece.
Chris McDonald: Yeah, it's so helpful to learn from him and Deb Dana. Oh, Deb Dana. Yes. Yeah. She's also quite brilliant. Absolutely. I think that can be so helpful to learn more about yourself, too, and your nervous system and for those listening who may not be sure what's happening to them.
Because I think that's a lot of it, too. If we don't know, if we have all these symptoms of anxiety and racing hard and sweating, we don't understand ourselves. It's going to be more scary.
Edy Nathan: It is. It's very scary. And I had some pretty bad anxiety when I was going to school, college, and I can't, I was in Manhattan and I can't tell you how many ERs I visited with my, my panic attacks.
And they just kept saying, there's nothing wrong with your heart. There's nothing wrong with your heart. And I'm like, are you sure? Because it really feels like there's something wrong. And that's the thing is that they. It was really, it was just just it's never just anxiety because it's so uncomfortable and is often, it loves to partner with grief, you know, and when it's ignored, it gets bigger.
And when you start to address anger and some of your issues around anger, it dissipates. So that's just a little trick. Like, don't be afraid to tap into anger. A lot of people don't. Especially females.
Chris McDonald: We're told not to be
Edy Nathan: angry. Right. That's right. Don't be angry. Do not be angry at all. Just be demure.
Chris McDonald: Yeah, that's what I found is a lot of women have, have difficulty really expressing it, getting it out, because it's never felt safe. It's been shut down so much and from other people.
Edy Nathan: It's true. I also. actually just, just published a very small journal called It's Grief Notes to Self. And it's a three month journal because I think sometimes like facing a journal that has one year's worth of pages feels really overwhelming.
And I know for me, it feels really overwhelming. So I decided, you know what, I'm just going to put together like a three month journal and there are prompts on every page. It is, they are the same prompts, you know, where are you stuck? Who are your allies? or your, your superpowers, and what's the metamorphosis you're looking for?
And those are the three prompts, those are the only three prompts, every single page. And then, at the back of this journal, there are five pages of emotions, because we so often can't think. of precisely how do we feel and what's going on. And you know, when, when we talk about yoga, there are poses and those poses are precise.
They may be taught differently depending on the teacher, but they're precise. Child's pose is child's pose and there's a prescribed way to do it and to get into it and to be in it. That precision can sometimes create a sense of internal safety, and so the words in the back of the journal are there to create a place where, even though you might not be able to think of the word, you can look at anxiety or you can look at anger or sadness or even joy.
Really joy can be just as hard to experience as anger or sadness. And to say, oh, okay, you know what, it's more this than that. And that is a way
Chris McDonald: to get to know the self. So true. I know you tapped into some breath work. Is there other breath work practices that are helpful for grief?
Edy Nathan: So, I don't necessarily think of the breath practices that I do just about grief.
I think that because I walk around with grief, you know, I will never, I don't forget my partner and certainly the people that I've, that I've lost or the, the traumatic imprints that I carry within me. And so, Rather than thinking, oh, this is only for grief, I want to give it a broader spectrum of, I want to tap into myself.
The third strategy is developing a rapport with the self. And that rapport is like a kinship. And it's like, okay, so I'm having a hard day today, and I need to, to really allow myself. I'm having a hard day today, and I need to allow myself a chance to honor that hard day. And so one of the things that, that I like to do is I, I like to put my hands about like a little bit of like where my heart is, maybe a little bit above both hands.
And I like to feel the pressure of those hands. And I'm going to just move my screen down a little bit so everybody can see, should they watch this. So, It's, and I'm pressing, and what I'm going to do is I'm going to breathe within my upper chest into my hands, and I'm going to do that now, and then I'm going to hold that breath.
Three, four, five, and then as I breathe out, I'm going to tap my chest.
What do you notice? It
Chris McDonald: just feels easier to breathe and like it
Edy Nathan: feels
Chris McDonald: like calmer.
Edy Nathan: Yeah.
Chris McDonald: Yeah.
Edy Nathan: So we're going to do that again, and this time we're going to, it can be in two parts. So this time, keep the hands in that upper, upper part of the chest and put pressure there, but this time you're going to breathe from your lower belly.
And then you're going to continue to breathe up, and then you're going to continue to breathe up. And you're going to hold it, hold it, hold it, and then when you release, you're going to completely release the breath, and you're going to then release the hands. One, two, three, and shake the hands. What do you notice now?
Chris McDonald: Feels
Edy Nathan: like a release of some sort. Yeah. We didn't name it. We didn't have to, right? That's exactly it.
Chris McDonald: With curiosity, I'm just noticing it just feels like a lightness.
Edy Nathan: Yeah. And how long did that take? 30 seconds?
Chris McDonald: Exactly. Yeah. So that's, I like that. That's like a simple one listeners to, to give that a go and see how that feels in your body.
Edy Nathan: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. With your body, with your breath. That's exactly right. And frankly, if you're in an office. Yes. And it's not something you're going to do like in front of everyone. I mean, we do need to go to the restroom every once in a while, so do it in the restroom. Close the door. Yeah. You know, go to, if you can get out, you know, and go for a walk.
If you can take lunch or take a break. I always used to tell people, pretend you're a smoker because people who are smoking go out and they take a break. And so they're really, in a weird way, they're really taking care of themselves. They're removing themselves from the work environment. So just pretend you're a smoker.
Don't have a cigarette. Have a breath.
Chris McDonald: Have a breath break. I like it. Yeah. Oh, that's so powerful to give yourself that time and space. And I think as mental health therapists, it's even harder at times to, to give back
Edy Nathan: to ourselves. It is. And one of the things that, that I do, I, and I, and I, I work primarily in a hybrid kind of fashion.
So I'm mainly online. And what I find is I do these exercises right along with my clients or right along with the people who are workshopping with me. And when I do it, I'm really doing it. I'm not faking doing it. You know, I'm not just talking you through. This is what child's pose looks like. I'm doing it because I want to write.
I want to experience it right along with you. And it's also serves maybe selfishly a dual purpose of. I'm going to take care of me a little bit as I'm showing you something and we can work this together.
Chris McDonald: Yeah,
Edy Nathan: yeah,
Chris McDonald: for sure. I think it helps with that co regulation too. The dual benefit is so impactful.
Dual benefit, that's right. Which is another good reason to bring some yoga practices into your therapy room.
Edy Nathan: I'm a big believer in the breath work, the stretching, and I will do all different kinds of stretching and not everybody can, you know, can stretch the way that you do. I suggest, but we will always find ways to make it work and even if someone is bound in their chair, then let's just move from left to right and breathe in and breathe out.
Let's rub your hands. I can't
Chris McDonald: see Edie. She was turning her head from left to right. Yes. I'm so sorry. That's okay. So we can work back. Yeah. That's good.
Edy Nathan: Absolutely. Thank you for that. And you were going to rub your hands together and then you can rub your hands together and create heat. And this is another 1 that that I really like because you're creating movement.
You're creating blood flow and get your hands really hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot. And then put them on your face. And just think of love. Just think of love right now. And breathing in, and out, and then let your, drop your hands. That's a nice break
Chris McDonald: too.
Edy Nathan: These are all things that can be done in 30 seconds or less.
And what they do is they break, they break a thought. They break an embodiment.
Chris McDonald: Yeah, I could see how therapists could use this with clients as well to say, what came up after you did that?
Edy Nathan: You bet. That's exactly. So kind of
Chris McDonald: really that tuning in, that self awareness
Edy Nathan: and. That's
Chris McDonald: right. Emotion wise, energy wise.
And the curiosity, so it's all connected. And then non, and I, you didn't mention this, but I'm thinking the nonjudgmental too came with curiosity, right? Can I just notice without judgment? Yeah. It is what it is. There it is. There it is. And I know you did some tapping with the chest. Was that from like EMDR or was that something?
So, you know, I,
Edy Nathan: so EMDR is, is a very specific protocol. And so I'm not going to say that it's from EMDR. I am going to say though, that what I've learned is. sometimes tapping and actually, so I'm tapping on my chest right now. It's very rhythmic from cultures that held much ritual as part of their daily life.
Some of the rituals included drumming and, and I'm, it doesn't matter. where these cultures are, but they're all over the world. And the drumming was a way to actually communicate, but also to regulate the rhythm. And so I almost like, I like to think of it as you're drumming on yourself to regulate the self.
Chris McDonald: Yeah, I think rather than, yeah,
Edy Nathan: rather than Saying that you are doing EMDR because it's, that is such a very specific protocol that I don't want to mix the two.
Chris McDonald: Right. I don't use EMDR so, but I knew there was some of the bilateral. Yeah, I,
Edy Nathan: yes, yes. And it's powerful. I use, I use a, I use a fair amount of EMDR.
I really do, do love it. If anybody is interested in learning more about it, just put in EMDR and you'll get more information than you could ever imagine. Yes. But it's wonderful. It's really, it can, it can be very, very helpful for anyone stepping into understanding more about how if grief is complex and complicated for them, how to hold it in a different way, because it's not about erasing it because it would be erasing you.
Yeah. So
Chris McDonald: true. So what's a takeaway that you could share with listeners who may be thinking about talking about grief with clients but are unsure about it? Is there any words of wisdom that you'd like to share? So
Edy Nathan: thank you for that question. It's a, it's a, it's a great question. Grief is tricky. And sometimes when we as clinicians use the word grief, when it doesn't relate explicitly to the loss of a loved one, people are avoidant around it because it doesn't fit them, or that's the way it feels to them, this doesn't fit me, this, this isn't any part of me.
So in, again, trying to find new languaging and a new way to kind of approach it, what I've replaced grief with often, when want to do an exploration around someone's grief is I'll say what are you yearning for, or what are you hungry for, or what's missing. And those are all words about grief, because when we lose someone, we're yearning for them to return.
When we lose something, we're hungry to experience it again, or not. or we're hungry to not feel this way, but there's, when there's a hunger or a yearning or something feels like it's missing, then you're not using grief, but the paradigm is there.
Chris McDonald: Yeah, I think that's a great way to, to look at grief in a different way than people are used to, but I think that kind of really defines it, can be helpful for people.
Yeah. So what's the best way for our listeners to find you and learn more about you?
Edy Nathan: Certainly my website, which is just my name, E D E D Y Nathan, N A T H A N dot com. And my books are on Amazon. It's grief, the dance of self discovery through trauma and loss. And then it's grief notes to self, which is the journal.
Uh, and that's, and that's on Amazon. And it's also on, uh, on my website and. on the website. It's actually a PDF so you can fill it in. So it's a download. So you can certainly get it on Amazon, but you can also get it on my website, which just happened. So I'm very excited about this. I am going to be doing grief workshops.
Uh, I'm just starting a whole new kind of range of offerings. And, uh, you can also see me and read me on Substack. And just again, if you go to my website, all the information, you can just log into Substack and it's free or you can, you know, subscribe, whichever you prefer. And those are some of the best ways to get in touch with me.
Chris McDonald: Yeah, and listeners will have that in the show notes in case you're driving or can't write down her information so you can access it there. But podcast. This has been really enlightening. Oh, thank you, Chris.
Edy Nathan: I thoroughly enjoyed being a guest here.
Chris McDonald: That brings us to the end of another episode. Be sure to tune in next Wednesday when another episode drops.
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