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Should runners avoid all ultra processed foods?
Episode 2412th July 2024 • Cook Eat Run • Charlie Watson
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Should Runners Avoid All Ultra Processed Foods?

This week on Cook Eat Run, we tackle the ever-controversial topic of ultra processed foods with renowned dietitian Nichola Ludlam-Raine, better known as NYX Nutrition. Join Charlie as she delves into Nicola's new book, "How Not to Eat Ultra Processed Foods," and uncovers practical advice for runners who often rely on these foods for fuel.


Understanding Ultra Processed Foods


Nicola breaks down what ultra processed foods (UPFs) are, tracing their origins and explaining why they have garnered such a negative reputation. Learn about the spectrum of UPFs, from junk foods like sweets and fast food to healthier options like hummus and wholemeal bread, and why not all UPFs are created equal.


Making Informed Choices


Discover how to make better food choices without eliminating convenience. Nicola shares tips on identifying healthier alternatives and balancing your diet to include nutrient-rich whole foods alongside occasional UPFs. She also offers practical advice for busy parents and athletes on how to navigate the complexities of food labels and ingredient lists.


Sports Nutrition and UPFs


Are sports nutrition products considered UPFs? Nicola addresses this pressing question and reassures athletes that using gels, bars, and drinks designed for performance is perfectly acceptable. Learn how to balance your diet to include these products without compromising your overall health, and get tips on pre-run and post-run fuelling strategies.


Connect with Nic on Instagram at @nicsnutrition for more tips and to learn about her group coaching programme launching this July.


Grab her new book “"How Not to Eat Ultra Processed Foods” Here:

https://amzn.eu/d/09kpu0N6


Connect with Charlie online @therunnerbeans / www.therunnerbeans.com 

Grab a copy of Charlie’s book ‘Cook Eat Run’ 


The Cook Eat Run Podcast is sponsored by XMiles - the One Stop Nutrition Shop - use discount code COOKEATRUNJULY10 for 10% off site wide at Xmiles.co.uk


This podcast is produced by Buckers at Decibelle Creative decibellecreative.com / @decibelle_creative

Transcripts

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>> Charlie: Hello and welcome back to the Cook Eat Run podcast with X

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Miles. I am so excited about today's episode because

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I feel like it's a topic I get loads of questions about

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online, especially when I share any food that I'm

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eating. So I'm excited to get down

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to business with dietitian Nicola

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Ludlam Rain to talk about ultra processed

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foods. So Nicola's better known to

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me anyway, and those who followed her online for a while as

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NYX nutrition.

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>> Charlie: I followed her blog and Instagram for.

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>> Charlie: Probably ten years and I'm so thrilled that her debut

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book is out next week on the 18 July

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how not to eat ultra processed foods. Her book is

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a four week plan to help you reduce the amount of ultra

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processed foods in your diet. But today's

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episode takes it back a little bit, outlining what ultra processed

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foods, are, why we should be limiting them in our diet,

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and crucially, what to do as runners that often

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rely on ultra processed foods to fuel our, miles

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for pre post and on the run fuel.

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Spoiler alert, Nick doesn't suggest that we stop using

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sports nutrition products, thankfully. Otherwise it would be a

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bit awkward for a podcast sponsored by XMiles, a sports

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nutrition specialist. You can save 10%

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off site wide this month with code

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cookeatrunjuly ten. So it's the ideal time

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to stock up on electrolytes to ensure you're hydrated for your summer

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runs.

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>> Charlie: So, Nick, thank you so much for joining me. I'm so

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excited to talk about something that's really a hot topic

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at the moment, which is ultra processed foods.

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You've got a book are, all around the subject coming out soon, which we will

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go into a little bit later. But first, can you just

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explain what ultra processed foods actually

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are?

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>> Speaker C: Yeah, so the word ultra processed foods, it seems

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to have been in vogue in the last year or so, but

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actually it was first coined around the

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2009 mark in Brazil. And

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basically, ultra processed foods are foods that have been

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heavily modified, made in factories,

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and contain ingredients that you wouldn't usually

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find in a home kitchen. So basically, like a

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classic example is a packet of skittles. You

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cannot create them at home, they have to be

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industrially produced. So that's what in essence,

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UPfs are. However, some

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healthy foods also fall into the category.

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So it was designed as a

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population like tool, was the

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nova, which is where ultra processed foods, the definition has come

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from. It was never designed to be like, that food is

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healthy, that food is unhealthy.

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>> Charlie: So why is it that we or the media

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has jumped on this bandwagon and said,

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ultra processed foods are awful. We need to avoid

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them.

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>> Speaker C: It's because studies are coming out that

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shows that, people who have diets that are high in

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ultra processed food, say, 80% or more,

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have poorer health outcomes. So whether that be

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weight gain, type two diabetes, high blood pressure,

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high cholesterol, even mortality.

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However, when you look at these, like, systematic

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reviews and meta analyses, the studies tend

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to be of poor quality. In general, there are

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some good quality, and, sometimes they

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haven't taken into account maybe a person's bmi,

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or do they smoke their socioeconomic

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status. So I do

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believe that there is problems with diets that are really

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high in UPF, but we can put a blanket

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ban on upfsitive. and as with all foods,

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it's the portion size and the frequency in which we eat

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them that matters the most.

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>> Charlie: Okay, so we've kind of said ultra

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processed foods, upFs, are processed in a factory.

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I mean, I think that when I think

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of food, I think of a lot of like, our food has been processed

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in a factory at some point, whether it's just the packaging

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or creating the food product, things like

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granola and things that we typically think of

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as quote unquote healthy. Are, there

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some that you can give advice on? Like,

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these are ones you should be. These are ultra

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processed foods that you should be limiting and enjoying in

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kind of moderation. And some that you're like, actually, this

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is still fine. It does need a certain amount of processing to

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get from wherever it was grown or

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reared or whatever to your table.

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>> Speaker C: Exactly. So I would say like 90 odd percent of the

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foods that we eat are processed, quote unquote,

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in some way. So, whether that be washing, drying,

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freezing, even at home, we do

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processing. But then ultra processing takes

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it that one step further. And it

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requires these additives to

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preserve shelf life, to make it look good, to

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make it tastier. Three months down the line.

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Now, upfs, come on. Spectrum. And this is

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why I was so passionate about writing the book. Because not all

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ups, like all foods, are created equal.

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So you've got ups on one side of the

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spectrum. the typical kind of like, your soul

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foods, often referred to as junk foods,

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like McDonald's foods,

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chocolate, bars, sweets, ben and

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Jerry's ice cream. You know, all these foods that taste

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delicious and they nourish us. maybe

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from a mental health, psychological point of view, for out

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celebrating with friends. However, they don't do that

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much for us physically in the long run. Especially

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if we have too much of them. But then on the other side of

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the UPS spectrum, you've got

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healthier. So basically higher

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nutrient value foods such as hummus,

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oat, milk, weetabix, whole mill bread,

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that can definitely feature within a healthy, balanced

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diet on a daily basis, but

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technically are classed as ups because of

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the ingredients. Now, there is

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research emerging and I can always link, sending the

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link to a paper that shows that foods, for example,

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that are high in whole grain, even though they might have a

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UPF, tagline to them, they

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are not associated with those poorer health

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outcomes because of the benefits that they

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provide. They're high in fibre, the high in B vitamins.

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So actually, I don't believe. And you

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can't bundle all upfs into the same

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category. yes. So there is problems with the

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research and, you know, the clickbait headlines that we're reading.

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>> Charlie: Yeah, I think it can be quite scary for people, especially,

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like, you've got kids, I'm trying to work out, what am I

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feeling, Bertie? And often it is like

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convenience and needing something that is

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going to be stable in a

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nappy bag, that I can then be like, here you

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go. Like you're hungry. Out on the go.

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so when we're choosing, like, what would you give advice in

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terms of, like, when we're choosing the foods? Because

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sometimes, let's be honest, we need the convenience.

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How would you suggest people kind of make that

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decision? Or what. What information can we give to people

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to help make informed decisions when it's kind of like,

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this is the ultra processed food that we want to kind of avoid and this

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one is fine, like everyday

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consumption, like you said.

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>> Speaker C: Yeah, and it's a great question. And I'm, you know, a busy

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working mom with two little kids, like age two and

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five, and we do have things like. Like frozen fish fingers

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and baked beans and, although some

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supermarkets do sell non upf versions of

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them, I do not have the time to go around all these individual

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supermarkets selecting it. However, what I would

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say is that, let's say you've got a food item that

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you consume on a daily basis and you

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would like to reduce your intake of

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additives associated with ups. Ask

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yourself, is there an alternative? And, like, one of the easiest

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switches that we often do, not

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always, but is, for example, bread. So, like

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Jason's sourdough, even the

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own brand, sourdough bread, tend to be like,

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emulsify free. There's nothing wrong with

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emulsifiers, but if you're just trying to cut

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down on your additive consumption, trying to increase whole

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foods, that might be a good starting point. And then

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taking it a step further, what quite a few of my family

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members have done, because they eat bread every single day, so

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making one little change has a big impact on the

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diet. They've actually got themselves a bread maker,

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which they actually say over the course of, I think it's like a year or

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two is going to save them money. It doesn't require much

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time. And, they've now got really creative

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making different flavoured breads, adding, you know, olives and sun dried

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tomatoes and things like that. So that's

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one way that we can reduce ups. But

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ultimately, as a dietitian, I always focus on what should

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people be doing more of? And if you are

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focusing on whole foods, reaching five a day,

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having more whole grains, two parts of fish a week, one of which is

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oily, all these guidelines, which we've been spouting for,

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like, decades now, your consumption

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of ups will naturally decline.

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So I always say the 80 20 rule, if you're living your life,

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you know, 80% whole foods and nourishing foods, you can

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have 20% of what you fancy. and

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interestingly, I would bundle those more

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nutritious upF foods that I mentioned, the

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hummus, oat, milk, even like, weetabix, into my

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80%. Because let's take

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weetabix, for example. The non UPF version of weetabix

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would be shredded wheat, but shredded wheat isn't

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fortified. So I choose to give my kids

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weetabix because it's got added iron. It's

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plant based iron. But, yeah, so

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there are lots of nuances depending on what food. And

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that's why you can't just say, don't eat upfs.

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>> Charlie: It's so, like, you and I have degrees in this, and I

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sometimes find myself in the supermarket being like, what is the best

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option to give for me and also for my son?

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And I'm like, if this is taking me this long, to make this

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decision, like, it's so

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overwhelming that no wonder there's so much kind of

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confusion and misinformation.

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>> Speaker C: When I first started writing the book, I had to do some serious

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talking to other dietitians and reflecting, thinking,

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like, what does this information mean and how best

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is the information to be translated? And that's like, I've got

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15 years of experience doing this. So, yeah, you're

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not alone. And, like, I think a classic example, when I

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really started looking at food labels and ingredients

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lists, is I went on the train and I ordered a

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sandwich, and this sandwich, the ingredients

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list, there might have been about

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hundred ingredients in this one sandwich if

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I had made the sandwich at home, which I

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probably would do if I was going on a train regularly, but I

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don't. So once in a blue moon is fine. It might have

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had less than ten ingredients in total. So

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that's just like, one great example of how,

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you know, it depends on how often you do something, you know, what do

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you need to change your book?

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>> Charlie: How not to eat ultra processed foods is a 30 day plan to

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help people make small changes to their diets. And out at the end of

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July, we'll make sure to link it so that people can buy it.

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And can you tell us a little bit more about the book, the

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recipes, the advice kind of included? Obviously, don't give away all of

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your secrets. We want people to get the book, but just

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a little summary.

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>> Speaker C: Yeah, so the book so. Well, it's 60,000 words,

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so I'm not going to give away all of it. But

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it's kind of in two parts. And the first part is kind

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of like the reasons why we should be eating

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more whole foods and fewer ups.

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And I talk a lot about the psychology of eating

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as well. So, like, understanding the different

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types of hunger. And I think that this is really important

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because we know, you know, that if you give someone a

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diet plan, nine times out of ten, like, it might

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sound like a good idea, but it doesn't work out

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because you need the backstory and you need the why. And what

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the book does is it gives people the tools

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to make informed choices and decisions.

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And what I do is I walk you through week by

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week. Week one, we look at drinks and snacks.

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We then look at breakfast, lunch, evening meal, and then there's

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an optional week five for desserts. So

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often when people are wanting to make changes to their diet, it can be

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really overwhelming. They've got all this information and

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misinformation, and they don't know where to start. So I

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always say, start with a food diary. Be

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your own diet detective. Write down what you're eating, and, most

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importantly, why, for example, are you

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having a packet of biscuits at 03:00 p.m. because your lunch

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was a tomato soup, there was no protein,

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there was no whole grains. So actually, it's not

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about taking away that packet of biscuits. It's about

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adding in nutrients at lunch. And then you might just have

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a couple of biscuits at, mid afternoon, or maybe none at all,

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because you haven't had that craving hit because you're satisfied from

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lunch. So that's like the premise of the book. And I've

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included, I think there's over like 20 recipes and

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I like over 100 different meal and snack

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ideas that are easy to do.

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and especially if you're busy. There's a premise

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that I encourage people to cook once, eat twice. So

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there's lots of different tricks and things,

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practical ideas and ways that you can modify your environment

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to make the healthy choice. The easy choice, like opening the

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fridge, other crudites and healthy dips.

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Is there a fruit bowl on the side? Where is your biscuit tin? Is it

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next to the kettle? Or is it in an inconvenient location,

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like a cupboard?

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>> Charlie: I love that. Yeah. And I've definitely been guilty and being like, why am I

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starving? And then I'm like, oh, yeah, I had soup and, nothing for lunch.

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And like 304:00. Mine is

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like starving. Bit of boredom,

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you know, like kind of wanting to get to the end of the workday

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habit, other people's choices. So, yeah, I can't wait

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to read the book. So this

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podcast is aimed primarily at,

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runners, at, cyclists, at endurance athletes,

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many of whom rely on sports nutrition to fuel

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their long runs, their training, their races.

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Do we count sports nutrition products as

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upfs, as ultra processed foods?

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>> Speaker C: That's a big question. I mean, so there's lots of different

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products that fall under that term, everything from whey

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protein to sports drinks and sports gels.

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And I had a little Google before we were

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speaking at, the actual ingredients in these

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products. And, so I'm sorry to say that, yeah, most of

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these products would be classed as ups because there's things like

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maltodextrin, there's a lot of ingredients that you wouldn't

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have in a home kitchen. However, there

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is a caveat. These health

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complications, for example, like type two diabetes and

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high blood pressure, are arising from

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people basing their diets on,

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ultra processed foods. And the problem with

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ultra processed foods in general is that they

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encourage the overconsumption of calories

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because they're very easy to eat and they're very moreish, you know, because

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they taste good. And secondly, they

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displace other nutrients because if you've got a

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diet that's really high in UPF, then you're not

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eating the whole foods. However, runners and

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athletes are a completely different kettle of fish. They

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in general will have a healthy,

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balanced diet based on whole foods with sufficient

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carbohydrates and protein to fuel their training. And then

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these products are an add on to

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support your training. And let's say you're

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having an energy gel partway through a run,

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that glucose is going to be metabolised almost

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instantly. You don't need the presence of insulin to absorb that

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glucose because your muscle cells are, contracting and

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are absorbing it from the blood. So you're not going to get a

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prolonged sugar spike, which can

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cause problems to do. The eyes and

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kidneys and such like. So it's a completely different

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kettle of fish.

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>> Charlie: I'm really glad you said that because I personally know

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that I feel better

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and perform better on

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gels that are designed specifically for me to be

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taking mid run rather than a banana

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or something that's going to be higher in fibre or higher in fat

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or just take longer to digest. So, yeah,

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that's, that's really good to hear. And, what about

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our, pre run and our post run fuel?

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So I personally really like

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Rice Krispies squares as a pre run. When

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I'm doing a really early morning run, I don't have

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time to make a whole breakfast and I don't have time to

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sit, eat it and digest it. I

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choose a Rice Krispies square, which

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is definitely ultra processed. but

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should I be making that change or is it okay

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because I am doing it maybe twice a

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week? There's a reason I'm having that Rice Krispies

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square to fuel my run and then I'm coming back and having like, eggs

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on toast or something.

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>> Speaker C: Exactly. So first of all, the frequency, so you're maybe

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doing that twice a week. And second of all, you're having

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it a certain time before a

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run. So as that glucose is being broken

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down, your muscle cells are literally mopping it

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up. And also there is goodness

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and adverted commas in all foods. So that Rice Krispies

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Square has probably got some added nutrients in there as well. And

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then you're following it up with whole foods.

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And let's say if we said, right, we're going to swap

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that rice Krispies Square for a banana and nut

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butter, that banana and nut butter could actually sit

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quite heavy on your stomach and then cause you to feel sluggish

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and then you're not going to get a great workout in and it might

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affect you psychologically. you and I both know that health

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is more than just what we eat. It's how

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we're feeling, it's how we're working out how we're feeling from

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a mental health point of view, as well as socialising and stress management.

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So it's all of these things together. So I think

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it's doing what is right for you. But

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keeping in mind, what does your diet look throughout the week? So

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if, say, you were following it up with another rice Krispie bar,

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we could say, well, maybe afterwards, you know, we

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could think of, you know, more adding in some whole grains and

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protein, which you are doing naturally.

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but let's say it was, it might be the flip side.

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Someone's having a fairly wholesome lunch and

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then a couple of hours later they're going on a run and

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actually they have to get back to work really quickly. So maybe

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in that scenario, maybe a protein shake is the best

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thing because we rather them have a protein

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shake than leave it four or 5 hours before their

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next meal. Because there's that window of opportunity. It's not 30

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minutes, but within 2 hours after a workout, you really want to

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be getting in some carbohydrate and protein. So I would

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say either before or after getting those whole

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foods. But then the other side of, you know, if

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it's a high GI food, then it doesn't really

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matter because it's for a purpose.

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>> Charlie: Okay. So we're kind of looking at as a, as

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a whole week rather than necessarily

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each day. Like, how often you having them. What's

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the purpose for having them? Is it just because

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you haven't eaten a good enough, you know, a

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fulfilling enough lunch that you're reaching for this ultra

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processed food? Or is it that it actually, because it digests so

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quickly, because you get the glucose spike

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that's perfect for your run?

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Yeah, that reassures me.

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>> Speaker C: Yeah. A food diary would give you that information and

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reassurance.

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>> Charlie: Yeah. My cupboard is literally full of rice krispies squares. I

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feel like the local, supermarket think I'm completely mad,

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but, yeah, it's the only thing that sits really well for

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me. in terms of. So

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for marathons, we car blowed

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and that's like the three days before the race.

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And thinking about what I used

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to carb load, quite a lot of it is going

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to have been ultra processed. I used rice

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krispies, I used sports nutrition drinks. I

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had random crackers from Trader

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Joe's. I had Gatorade. I had,

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I did try and have some whole foods. So I had like

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coconut water and orange juice. Like fresh orange

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juice,

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bagels, pancakes.

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So I mean, a real mixture.

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>> Charlie: The.

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>> Charlie: We probably do that. most people are running a marathon

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less often than twice a year. Three times. I mean,

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maybe some people are running more often than that. But is that

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okay for us to be using those

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when it is over a longer period of time? So it is

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over that three day period, but still serves a

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purpose?

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>> Speaker C: That's a really good question. And I would say, I mean, I would

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almost like write down all of the different carb options

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which you're going to be getting in and, just have a look to see if

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there is a balance because as well

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as, the carbohydrates, you want to be asking yourself,

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like, what other nutrients do I want to get in? Like, do I want

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to get in some b vitamins? Do I want to make sure I'm getting

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in some protein as well? and within the

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whole foods, for example, pasta is not

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an ultra processed food, it's just wheat and a bit of

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water. You've got a couple of questions there. is it white

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pasta or is it wholemeal? You might

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choose white pasta when you're carb loading because it's got less

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fibre in. So you're going to be able to get more

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of it inside of you. And the same, for example, with rice, you might

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go for white basmati or even white long

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grain as opposed to whole grain. So

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there's always, I always say, make informed

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decisions based on your lifestyle and

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scenario. So I would say, ideally, yeah, go for whole

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foods, but if you need to get in those ups, then it's

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fine. And, I think I gave an example recently on social media.

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You mentioned some crackers. I love

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these Ritz crackers. And I had a look at the ingredients and they

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totally were ups. I would say just serve

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them alongside some whole foods. So why not have some

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crudite, some carrot sticks and cucumber and

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hummus alongside to make it into a little bit more

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of a nourishing snack. So you still got your carbohydrate, but then

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you've also got some nourishing foods in there as well.

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But really, you know, three days or

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six days out of a year is not going to have a

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massive impact. So yeah, I would

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say, yeah, keep in mind balance, but also in

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context of, the whole year and it's not that many

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days, I think, with.

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>> Charlie: The studies and I'm sure you've found this, but often

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it's looking at sedentary people, people that

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you don't take into consideration or they don't necessarily

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take into consideration the rest of the lifestyle choices these

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people are making. and so

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actually, if you are

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healthy, exercising, eating whole foods the

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majority of the time, choosing these kind

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of the ultra processed foods,

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as you say, like kind of having some in the 80% that

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are like the healthy ones and then having some in the 20%

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actually makes you. Gives

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you balance. Because I think we can become obsessed,

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especially as athletes, with what we're putting in our body

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and it can become an unhealthy obsession.

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>> Speaker C: Exactly. I was actually just before you said that, I was

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going to say, I feel like the whole conversation around ups

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is creating a lot of unnecessary health anxiety.

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It's almost like worrying the worried. Well, even

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more if you've got athletes who are out there running,

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I could guarantee that they're not going to have an excessive amount of

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alcohol in their system, they're not going to be

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smoking. the stress management should be pretty good

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because they'll be outside and running, so they

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shouldn't have to worry about the amount of

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upfront. something that does spring to mind, actually,

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especially when you're like carb loading for a

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marathon and we're talking about fibre intake is

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just for runners, especially to keep an eye on their

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bowels. And if you are, for example,

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training for a marathon, why not carb load for three

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days, as a practise, and

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see how your body responds? Because it would be

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horrendous if, for example, you were like, do you know what? Healthy eating is

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going to go out the window. I'm going to have a load of UPF carbs, a load of white

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cubs, and then you get constipated and like, on the marathon

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day, you know, your bowels haven't opened, so that's something

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to keep in mind as well.

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>> Charlie: Yeah, definitely. Like, the pre race poo is

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essential. I feel like runners talk about these

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kind of things way more than the average person. But

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your line of work, you talk about them. I'm sure it's just as much as I

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do. But, on that note,

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thank you so much. Where can people find you if they've got more

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questions? Want to learn more about the book? And I know you share

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a lot of really good, helpful,

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evidence based nutritional information, so

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where can people find that?

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>> Speaker C: Thank you. So I usually hang out over on Instagram.

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I'm ixnutrition nicsnutrition. And,

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yeah, the book, how not to eat ultra processed

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is out very soon. 18 July. Available from

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Amazon and all good bookshops. But yes, spoiler alert,

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it's not about never eating upfs again.

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>> Charlie: Thank you so much. I will link all of that below. and

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yeah, I'm, so glad to hear that we can keep in our

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hummus and our rice Krispies squares and

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m most importantly, our sports nutrition.

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>> Speaker C: Cool. Thank you so much for having me, Charlie.

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>> Charlie: Thank you so much for listening to this episode

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of the Cook Eat Run podcast.

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Really appreciate any feedback, any reviews you

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can leave wherever you listen to your

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podcasts. Don't forget you can use code

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cookeatrunJuly 10th for 10% off site

Speaker:

wide at ex miles and they've actually got a really cool new

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nutrition calculator to take the stress out of

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calculating your endurance fueling strategies.

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You can create a personalised nutrition plan tailored to your

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sport, distance, predicted time, and then build your

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nutrition list by adding products to match the plan.

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So it'll give you targets like pre run carbs, on the

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run carbs, post run carbs, protein,

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etcetera and you just drag and drop. Or you kind

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of search for the products that you know you like. Or

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you can have a look and search through their list of products and it will give you

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some suggestions. So definitely give that a go.

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Give it a try. Use code cookeatrunjuly ten to

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save on your list. Thank you so much for listening to today's

Speaker:

episode. Please don't forget to subscribe and like leave a

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rating and review. Share the episode if you enjoyed it. Thanks

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so much to Nicola for coming on and chatting with

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me and so much luck with her book. You can can

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get it at all good bookshops from the 18th of, July.

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It's called how not to eat ultra

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processed food. So definitely give that a look up and

Speaker:

see how you get on. Let me know what you think.

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