Should Runners Avoid All Ultra Processed Foods?

This week on Cook Eat Run, we tackle the ever-controversial topic of ultra processed foods with renowned dietitian Nichola Ludlam-Raine, better known as NYX Nutrition. Join Charlie as she delves into Nicola's new book, "How Not to Eat Ultra Processed Foods," and uncovers practical advice for runners who often rely on these foods for fuel.

Understanding Ultra Processed Foods

Nicola breaks down what ultra processed foods (UPFs) are, tracing their origins and explaining why they have garnered such a negative reputation. Learn about the spectrum of UPFs, from junk foods like sweets and fast food to healthier options like hummus and wholemeal bread, and why not all UPFs are created equal.

Making Informed Choices

Discover how to make better food choices without eliminating convenience. Nicola shares tips on identifying healthier alternatives and balancing your diet to include nutrient-rich whole foods alongside occasional UPFs. She also offers practical advice for busy parents and athletes on how to navigate the complexities of food labels and ingredient lists.

Sports Nutrition and UPFs

Are sports nutrition products considered UPFs? Nicola addresses this pressing question and reassures athletes that using gels, bars, and drinks designed for performance is perfectly acceptable. Learn how to balance your diet to include these products without compromising your overall health, and get tips on pre-run and post-run fuelling strategies.

Connect with Nic on Instagram at @nicsnutrition for more tips and to learn about her group coaching programme launching this July.

Grab her new book “"How Not to Eat Ultra Processed Foods” Here:

https://amzn.eu/d/09kpu0N6

Connect with Charlie online @therunnerbeans / www.therunnerbeans.com 

Grab a copy of Charlie’s book ‘Cook Eat Run’ 

The Cook Eat Run Podcast is sponsored by XMiles - the One Stop Nutrition Shop - use discount code COOKEATRUNJULY10 for 10% off site wide at Xmiles.co.uk

This podcast is produced by Buckers at Decibelle Creative decibellecreative.com / @decibelle_creative

>> Charlie: Hello and welcome back to the Cook Eat Run podcast with X

Miles. I am so excited about today's episode because

I feel like it's a topic I get loads of questions about

online, especially when I share any food that I'm

eating. So I'm excited to get down

to business with dietitian Nicola

Ludlam Rain to talk about ultra processed

foods. So Nicola's better known to

me anyway, and those who followed her online for a while as

NYX nutrition.

>> Charlie: I followed her blog and Instagram for.

>> Charlie: Probably ten years and I'm so thrilled that her debut

book is out next week on the 18 July

how not to eat ultra processed foods. Her book is

a four week plan to help you reduce the amount of ultra

processed foods in your diet. But today's

episode takes it back a little bit, outlining what ultra processed

foods, are, why we should be limiting them in our diet,

and crucially, what to do as runners that often

rely on ultra processed foods to fuel our, miles

for pre post and on the run fuel.

Spoiler alert, Nick doesn't suggest that we stop using

sports nutrition products, thankfully. Otherwise it would be a

bit awkward for a podcast sponsored by XMiles, a sports

nutrition specialist. You can save 10%

off site wide this month with code

cookeatrunjuly ten. So it's the ideal time

to stock up on electrolytes to ensure you're hydrated for your summer

runs.

>> Charlie: So, Nick, thank you so much for joining me. I'm so

excited to talk about something that's really a hot topic

at the moment, which is ultra processed foods.

You've got a book are, all around the subject coming out soon, which we will

go into a little bit later. But first, can you just

explain what ultra processed foods actually

are?

>> Speaker C: Yeah, so the word ultra processed foods, it seems

to have been in vogue in the last year or so, but

actually it was first coined around the

2009 mark in Brazil. And

basically, ultra processed foods are foods that have been

heavily modified, made in factories,

and contain ingredients that you wouldn't usually

find in a home kitchen. So basically, like a

classic example is a packet of skittles. You

cannot create them at home, they have to be

industrially produced. So that's what in essence,

UPfs are. However, some

healthy foods also fall into the category.

So it was designed as a

population like tool, was the

nova, which is where ultra processed foods, the definition has come

from. It was never designed to be like, that food is

healthy, that food is unhealthy.

>> Charlie: So why is it that we or the media

has jumped on this bandwagon and said,

ultra processed foods are awful. We need to avoid

them.

>> Speaker C: It's because studies are coming out that

shows that, people who have diets that are high in

ultra processed food, say, 80% or more,

have poorer health outcomes. So whether that be

weight gain, type two diabetes, high blood pressure,

high cholesterol, even mortality.

However, when you look at these, like, systematic

reviews and meta analyses, the studies tend

to be of poor quality. In general, there are

some good quality, and, sometimes they

haven't taken into account maybe a person's bmi,

or do they smoke their socioeconomic

status. So I do

believe that there is problems with diets that are really

high in UPF, but we can put a blanket

ban on upfsitive. and as with all foods,

it's the portion size and the frequency in which we eat

them that matters the most.

>> Charlie: Okay, so we've kind of said ultra

processed foods, upFs, are processed in a factory.

I mean, I think that when I think

of food, I think of a lot of like, our food has been processed

in a factory at some point, whether it's just the packaging

or creating the food product, things like

granola and things that we typically think of

as quote unquote healthy. Are, there

some that you can give advice on? Like,

these are ones you should be. These are ultra

processed foods that you should be limiting and enjoying in

kind of moderation. And some that you're like, actually, this

is still fine. It does need a certain amount of processing to

get from wherever it was grown or

reared or whatever to your table.

>> Speaker C: Exactly. So I would say like 90 odd percent of the

foods that we eat are processed, quote unquote,

in some way. So, whether that be washing, drying,

freezing, even at home, we do

processing. But then ultra processing takes

it that one step further. And it

requires these additives to

preserve shelf life, to make it look good, to

make it tastier. Three months down the line.

Now, upfs, come on. Spectrum. And this is

why I was so passionate about writing the book. Because not all

ups, like all foods, are created equal.

So you've got ups on one side of the

spectrum. the typical kind of like, your soul

foods, often referred to as junk foods,

like McDonald's foods,

chocolate, bars, sweets, ben and

Jerry's ice cream. You know, all these foods that taste

delicious and they nourish us. maybe

from a mental health, psychological point of view, for out

celebrating with friends. However, they don't do that

much for us physically in the long run. Especially

if we have too much of them. But then on the other side of

the UPS spectrum, you've got

healthier. So basically higher

nutrient value foods such as hummus,

oat, milk, weetabix, whole mill bread,

that can definitely feature within a healthy, balanced

diet on a daily basis, but

technically are classed as ups because of

the ingredients. Now, there is

research emerging and I can always link, sending the

link to a paper that shows that foods, for example,

that are high in whole grain, even though they might have a

UPF, tagline to them, they

are not associated with those poorer health

outcomes because of the benefits that they

provide. They're high in fibre, the high in B vitamins.

So actually, I don't believe. And you

can't bundle all upfs into the same

category. yes. So there is problems with the

research and, you know, the clickbait headlines that we're reading.

>> Charlie: Yeah, I think it can be quite scary for people, especially,

like, you've got kids, I'm trying to work out, what am I

feeling, Bertie? And often it is like

convenience and needing something that is

going to be stable in a

nappy bag, that I can then be like, here you

go. Like you're hungry. Out on the go.

so when we're choosing, like, what would you give advice in

terms of, like, when we're choosing the foods? Because

sometimes, let's be honest, we need the convenience.

How would you suggest people kind of make that

decision? Or what. What information can we give to people

to help make informed decisions when it's kind of like,

this is the ultra processed food that we want to kind of avoid and this

one is fine, like everyday

consumption, like you said.

>> Speaker C: Yeah, and it's a great question. And I'm, you know, a busy

working mom with two little kids, like age two and

five, and we do have things like. Like frozen fish fingers

and baked beans and, although some

supermarkets do sell non upf versions of

them, I do not have the time to go around all these individual

supermarkets selecting it. However, what I would

say is that, let's say you've got a food item that

you consume on a daily basis and you

would like to reduce your intake of

additives associated with ups. Ask

yourself, is there an alternative? And, like, one of the easiest

switches that we often do, not

always, but is, for example, bread. So, like

Jason's sourdough, even the

own brand, sourdough bread, tend to be like,

emulsify free. There's nothing wrong with

emulsifiers, but if you're just trying to cut

down on your additive consumption, trying to increase whole

foods, that might be a good starting point. And then

taking it a step further, what quite a few of my family

members have done, because they eat bread every single day, so

making one little change has a big impact on the

diet. They've actually got themselves a bread maker,

which they actually say over the course of, I think it's like a year or

two is going to save them money. It doesn't require much

time. And, they've now got really creative

making different flavoured breads, adding, you know, olives and sun dried

tomatoes and things like that. So that's

one way that we can reduce ups. But

ultimately, as a dietitian, I always focus on what should

people be doing more of? And if you are

focusing on whole foods, reaching five a day,

having more whole grains, two parts of fish a week, one of which is

oily, all these guidelines, which we've been spouting for,

like, decades now, your consumption

of ups will naturally decline.

So I always say the 80 20 rule, if you're living your life,

you know, 80% whole foods and nourishing foods, you can

have 20% of what you fancy. and

interestingly, I would bundle those more

nutritious upF foods that I mentioned, the

hummus, oat, milk, even like, weetabix, into my

80%. Because let's take

weetabix, for example. The non UPF version of weetabix

would be shredded wheat, but shredded wheat isn't

fortified. So I choose to give my kids

weetabix because it's got added iron. It's

plant based iron. But, yeah, so

there are lots of nuances depending on what food. And

that's why you can't just say, don't eat upfs.

>> Charlie: It's so, like, you and I have degrees in this, and I

sometimes find myself in the supermarket being like, what is the best

option to give for me and also for my son?

And I'm like, if this is taking me this long, to make this

decision, like, it's so

overwhelming that no wonder there's so much kind of

confusion and misinformation.

>> Speaker C: When I first started writing the book, I had to do some serious

talking to other dietitians and reflecting, thinking,

like, what does this information mean and how best

is the information to be translated? And that's like, I've got

15 years of experience doing this. So, yeah, you're

not alone. And, like, I think a classic example, when I

really started looking at food labels and ingredients

lists, is I went on the train and I ordered a

sandwich, and this sandwich, the ingredients

list, there might have been about

hundred ingredients in this one sandwich if

I had made the sandwich at home, which I

probably would do if I was going on a train regularly, but I

don't. So once in a blue moon is fine. It might have

had less than ten ingredients in total. So

that's just like, one great example of how,

you know, it depends on how often you do something, you know, what do

you need to change your book?

>> Charlie: How not to eat ultra processed foods is a 30 day plan to

help people make small changes to their diets. And out at the end of

July, we'll make sure to link it so that people can buy it.

And can you tell us a little bit more about the book, the

recipes, the advice kind of included? Obviously, don't give away all of

your secrets. We want people to get the book, but just

a little summary.

>> Speaker C: Yeah, so the book so. Well, it's 60,000 words,

so I'm not going to give away all of it. But

it's kind of in two parts. And the first part is kind

of like the reasons why we should be eating

more whole foods and fewer ups.

And I talk a lot about the psychology of eating

as well. So, like, understanding the different

types of hunger. And I think that this is really important

because we know, you know, that if you give someone a

diet plan, nine times out of ten, like, it might

sound like a good idea, but it doesn't work out

because you need the backstory and you need the why. And what

the book does is it gives people the tools

to make informed choices and decisions.

And what I do is I walk you through week by

week. Week one, we look at drinks and snacks.

We then look at breakfast, lunch, evening meal, and then there's

an optional week five for desserts. So

often when people are wanting to make changes to their diet, it can be

really overwhelming. They've got all this information and

misinformation, and they don't know where to start. So I

always say, start with a food diary. Be

your own diet detective. Write down what you're eating, and, most

importantly, why, for example, are you

having a packet of biscuits at 03:00 p.m. because your lunch

was a tomato soup, there was no protein,

there was no whole grains. So actually, it's not

about taking away that packet of biscuits. It's about

adding in nutrients at lunch. And then you might just have

a couple of biscuits at, mid afternoon, or maybe none at all,

because you haven't had that craving hit because you're satisfied from

lunch. So that's like the premise of the book. And I've

included, I think there's over like 20 recipes and

I like over 100 different meal and snack

ideas that are easy to do.

and especially if you're busy. There's a premise

that I encourage people to cook once, eat twice. So

there's lots of different tricks and things,

practical ideas and ways that you can modify your environment

to make the healthy choice. The easy choice, like opening the

fridge, other crudites and healthy dips.

Is there a fruit bowl on the side? Where is your biscuit tin? Is it

next to the kettle? Or is it in an inconvenient location,

like a cupboard?

>> Charlie: I love that. Yeah. And I've definitely been guilty and being like, why am I

starving? And then I'm like, oh, yeah, I had soup and, nothing for lunch.

And like 304:00. Mine is

like starving. Bit of boredom,

you know, like kind of wanting to get to the end of the workday

habit, other people's choices. So, yeah, I can't wait

to read the book. So this

podcast is aimed primarily at,

runners, at, cyclists, at endurance athletes,

many of whom rely on sports nutrition to fuel

their long runs, their training, their races.

Do we count sports nutrition products as

upfs, as ultra processed foods?

>> Speaker C: That's a big question. I mean, so there's lots of different

products that fall under that term, everything from whey

protein to sports drinks and sports gels.

And I had a little Google before we were

speaking at, the actual ingredients in these

products. And, so I'm sorry to say that, yeah, most of

these products would be classed as ups because there's things like

maltodextrin, there's a lot of ingredients that you wouldn't

have in a home kitchen. However, there

is a caveat. These health

complications, for example, like type two diabetes and

high blood pressure, are arising from

people basing their diets on,

ultra processed foods. And the problem with

ultra processed foods in general is that they

encourage the overconsumption of calories

because they're very easy to eat and they're very moreish, you know, because

they taste good. And secondly, they

displace other nutrients because if you've got a

diet that's really high in UPF, then you're not

eating the whole foods. However, runners and

athletes are a completely different kettle of fish. They

in general will have a healthy,

balanced diet based on whole foods with sufficient

carbohydrates and protein to fuel their training. And then

these products are an add on to

support your training. And let's say you're

having an energy gel partway through a run,

that glucose is going to be metabolised almost

instantly. You don't need the presence of insulin to absorb that

glucose because your muscle cells are, contracting and

are absorbing it from the blood. So you're not going to get a

prolonged sugar spike, which can

cause problems to do. The eyes and

kidneys and such like. So it's a completely different

kettle of fish.

>> Charlie: I'm really glad you said that because I personally know

that I feel better

and perform better on

gels that are designed specifically for me to be

taking mid run rather than a banana

or something that's going to be higher in fibre or higher in fat

or just take longer to digest. So, yeah,

that's, that's really good to hear. And, what about

our, pre run and our post run fuel?

So I personally really like

Rice Krispies squares as a pre run. When

I'm doing a really early morning run, I don't have

time to make a whole breakfast and I don't have time to

sit, eat it and digest it. I

choose a Rice Krispies square, which

is definitely ultra processed. but

should I be making that change or is it okay

because I am doing it maybe twice a

week? There's a reason I'm having that Rice Krispies

square to fuel my run and then I'm coming back and having like, eggs

on toast or something.

>> Speaker C: Exactly. So first of all, the frequency, so you're maybe

doing that twice a week. And second of all, you're having

it a certain time before a

run. So as that glucose is being broken

down, your muscle cells are literally mopping it

up. And also there is goodness

and adverted commas in all foods. So that Rice Krispies

Square has probably got some added nutrients in there as well. And

then you're following it up with whole foods.

And let's say if we said, right, we're going to swap

that rice Krispies Square for a banana and nut

butter, that banana and nut butter could actually sit

quite heavy on your stomach and then cause you to feel sluggish

and then you're not going to get a great workout in and it might

affect you psychologically. you and I both know that health

is more than just what we eat. It's how

we're feeling, it's how we're working out how we're feeling from

a mental health point of view, as well as socialising and stress management.

So it's all of these things together. So I think

it's doing what is right for you. But

keeping in mind, what does your diet look throughout the week? So

if, say, you were following it up with another rice Krispie bar,

we could say, well, maybe afterwards, you know, we

could think of, you know, more adding in some whole grains and

protein, which you are doing naturally.

but let's say it was, it might be the flip side.

Someone's having a fairly wholesome lunch and

then a couple of hours later they're going on a run and

actually they have to get back to work really quickly. So maybe

in that scenario, maybe a protein shake is the best

thing because we rather them have a protein

shake than leave it four or 5 hours before their

next meal. Because there's that window of opportunity. It's not 30

minutes, but within 2 hours after a workout, you really want to

be getting in some carbohydrate and protein. So I would

say either before or after getting those whole

foods. But then the other side of, you know, if

it's a high GI food, then it doesn't really

matter because it's for a purpose.

>> Charlie: Okay. So we're kind of looking at as a, as

a whole week rather than necessarily

each day. Like, how often you having them. What's

the purpose for having them? Is it just because

you haven't eaten a good enough, you know, a

fulfilling enough lunch that you're reaching for this ultra

processed food? Or is it that it actually, because it digests so

quickly, because you get the glucose spike

that's perfect for your run?

Yeah, that reassures me.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. A food diary would give you that information and

reassurance.

>> Charlie: Yeah. My cupboard is literally full of rice krispies squares. I

feel like the local, supermarket think I'm completely mad,

but, yeah, it's the only thing that sits really well for

me. in terms of. So

for marathons, we car blowed

and that's like the three days before the race.

And thinking about what I used

to carb load, quite a lot of it is going

to have been ultra processed. I used rice

krispies, I used sports nutrition drinks. I

had random crackers from Trader

Joe's. I had Gatorade. I had,

I did try and have some whole foods. So I had like

coconut water and orange juice. Like fresh orange

juice,

bagels, pancakes.

So I mean, a real mixture.

>> Charlie: The.

>> Charlie: We probably do that. most people are running a marathon

less often than twice a year. Three times. I mean,

maybe some people are running more often than that. But is that

okay for us to be using those

when it is over a longer period of time? So it is

over that three day period, but still serves a

purpose?

>> Speaker C: That's a really good question. And I would say, I mean, I would

almost like write down all of the different carb options

which you're going to be getting in and, just have a look to see if

there is a balance because as well

as, the carbohydrates, you want to be asking yourself,

like, what other nutrients do I want to get in? Like, do I want

to get in some b vitamins? Do I want to make sure I'm getting

in some protein as well? and within the

whole foods, for example, pasta is not

an ultra processed food, it's just wheat and a bit of

water. You've got a couple of questions there. is it white

pasta or is it wholemeal? You might

choose white pasta when you're carb loading because it's got less

fibre in. So you're going to be able to get more

of it inside of you. And the same, for example, with rice, you might

go for white basmati or even white long

grain as opposed to whole grain. So

there's always, I always say, make informed

decisions based on your lifestyle and

scenario. So I would say, ideally, yeah, go for whole

foods, but if you need to get in those ups, then it's

fine. And, I think I gave an example recently on social media.

You mentioned some crackers. I love

these Ritz crackers. And I had a look at the ingredients and they

totally were ups. I would say just serve

them alongside some whole foods. So why not have some

crudite, some carrot sticks and cucumber and

hummus alongside to make it into a little bit more

of a nourishing snack. So you still got your carbohydrate, but then

you've also got some nourishing foods in there as well.

But really, you know, three days or

six days out of a year is not going to have a

massive impact. So yeah, I would

say, yeah, keep in mind balance, but also in

context of, the whole year and it's not that many

days, I think, with.

>> Charlie: The studies and I'm sure you've found this, but often

it's looking at sedentary people, people that

you don't take into consideration or they don't necessarily

take into consideration the rest of the lifestyle choices these

people are making. and so

actually, if you are

healthy, exercising, eating whole foods the

majority of the time, choosing these kind

of the ultra processed foods,

as you say, like kind of having some in the 80% that

are like the healthy ones and then having some in the 20%

actually makes you. Gives

you balance. Because I think we can become obsessed,

especially as athletes, with what we're putting in our body

and it can become an unhealthy obsession.

>> Speaker C: Exactly. I was actually just before you said that, I was

going to say, I feel like the whole conversation around ups

is creating a lot of unnecessary health anxiety.

It's almost like worrying the worried. Well, even

more if you've got athletes who are out there running,

I could guarantee that they're not going to have an excessive amount of

alcohol in their system, they're not going to be

smoking. the stress management should be pretty good

because they'll be outside and running, so they

shouldn't have to worry about the amount of

upfront. something that does spring to mind, actually,

especially when you're like carb loading for a

marathon and we're talking about fibre intake is

just for runners, especially to keep an eye on their

bowels. And if you are, for example,

training for a marathon, why not carb load for three

days, as a practise, and

see how your body responds? Because it would be

horrendous if, for example, you were like, do you know what? Healthy eating is

going to go out the window. I'm going to have a load of UPF carbs, a load of white

cubs, and then you get constipated and like, on the marathon

day, you know, your bowels haven't opened, so that's something

to keep in mind as well.

>> Charlie: Yeah, definitely. Like, the pre race poo is

essential. I feel like runners talk about these

kind of things way more than the average person. But

your line of work, you talk about them. I'm sure it's just as much as I

do. But, on that note,

thank you so much. Where can people find you if they've got more

questions? Want to learn more about the book? And I know you share

a lot of really good, helpful,

evidence based nutritional information, so

where can people find that?

>> Speaker C: Thank you. So I usually hang out over on Instagram.

I'm ixnutrition nicsnutrition. And,

yeah, the book, how not to eat ultra processed

is out very soon. 18 July. Available from

Amazon and all good bookshops. But yes, spoiler alert,

it's not about never eating upfs again.

>> Charlie: Thank you so much. I will link all of that below. and

yeah, I'm, so glad to hear that we can keep in our

hummus and our rice Krispies squares and

m most importantly, our sports nutrition.

>> Speaker C: Cool. Thank you so much for having me, Charlie.

>> Charlie: Thank you so much for listening to this episode

of the Cook Eat Run podcast.

Really appreciate any feedback, any reviews you

can leave wherever you listen to your

podcasts. Don't forget you can use code

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Give it a try. Use code cookeatrunjuly ten to

save on your list. Thank you so much for listening to today's

episode. Please don't forget to subscribe and like leave a

rating and review. Share the episode if you enjoyed it. Thanks

so much to Nicola for coming on and chatting with

me and so much luck with her book. You can can

get it at all good bookshops from the 18th of, July.

It's called how not to eat ultra

processed food. So definitely give that a look up and

see how you get on. Let me know what you think.