Shownotes
There is a version of salon ownership where you grow the team, fill the chairs, take the whole space, and still lie awake on a Sunday night doing sums in your head. Siobhan from Siobhan Hair Artistry lived in that version for four years. She started mobile with a plastic basin and a bag of colour, moved into a home salon, rented a chair, then ended up renting the entire hair space at Cliff Newport with an apprentice, her mum and a team around her. And in her own words, she had no clue what she was doing. No break evens. No idea what the business had to make in an hour just to stand still.
Then last June she smashed into the back of a car on the motorway, fractured her sternum, and was back on the floor two weeks later doing foils with a broken chest because the bills did not stop. That was the moment the maths stopped being about the business and started being about her.
Six months ago she made the decision she had been avoiding. She let go of the apprentice she loved and went back to just her and her mum. She is busier now than she has ever been. She is also less tired, she knows exactly what she needs to make every week, and her clients keep telling her she seems like herself again. This is a conversation about what it actually costs to hold a team together when the numbers underneath are not working, and what happens when you finally stop.
What we cover
- Building from mobile hairdressing to a home salon to renting a whole salon space
- Employing a team with no break even figures and no idea what the business had to make
- A senior stylist who quit on her first day
- Why your team will never be invested in your business the way you are
- The car accident, the fractured sternum, and going back to work after two weeks
- Letting go of an apprentice she loved and finding her a job with a friend
- Knowing your weekly numbers before you employ another person
- Income protection and super when you are a sole trader
- Fair Work, hard conversations, and why so many Australian salon owners have stopped hiring
- Being busier on her own and less tired than she was with a team
- Why you have the right to change your business, whenever you want
She did not go backwards. She went back to the thing that was working all along.
How do I know if my salon is in fight or flight?
If your body is braced every time your phone lights up, if you check the schedule five times a day, and if you cannot remember the last week that felt calm, you are in it. Siobhan spent four years there and only recognised it once she was out.
Should I let staff go if my salon is not making enough money?
There is no single right answer, but the starting point is knowing whether each week is profitable before you decide anything. Siobhan let her apprentice go because the business could not hit its numbers consistently once anyone was sick or on leave, and she found her a job with a friend rather than leaving her without one.
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcripts
[00:00:11] Samara: I want you to love this business like I love this business," but they're not invested in this business.
[:[00:00:15] Samara: You know? They are- Yes ... at the end of the day working for a business.
[:[00:00:30] Samara: Are we under? Are we over? Are we good? Because if you can't do that, then don't fucking employ anyone.
[:Like, the last thing I had to do was let go of my apprentice.
[:[00:00:56] Siobhan: for the first time in four years, I'm at a place where- I just look after myself.
I work, I have my weekends off, I do all of that. And also too, the financial side, I'm like you now, I know my numbers.
[:[00:01:14] Siobhan: Yeah.
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[:[00:01:41] Samara: morning. We are
[:[00:01:44] Samara: in for today.
Oh, so much talking.
[:[00:01:48] Samara: I said, "Julie, when I get home, don't speak to me. No one speak to me."
[:[00:01:59] Samara: After, we've got three pods and then I've got a call with Sadie's teacher, and then I've got a coaching call.
Yeah. So I'm gonna be maxed out. She's gonna
[:[00:02:09] Samara: In saying that though, like really, we talk probably as much in the salon.
[:[00:02:16] Samara: Yeah, I do too.
[:joining us this morning. And I am excited- I know ... for the tea. I even
[:[00:02:31] Jen: a tea- ... in
[:[00:02:39] Jen: Kevin
[:[00:02:40] Jen: wasn't
[:[00:02:44] Samara: Yeah. And then we were just friends, and I think then when we saw each other one day it was just like we'd already seen each other 90 times.
[:[00:02:53] Samara: Kindred spirits.
[:[00:02:55] Samara: Yeah. And then you were, like, putting some stuff up and I was like, "This just feels like a podcast."
Yes.
[:[00:03:06] Samara: This just feels like a podcast. Yeah. I know. Yes, you do. And look, we're very much like that, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Do things respectfully but
[:[00:03:14] Samara: Yeah. 100%.
[:I dream of this sometimes. So I need to know how you did it, what happened, and how everything's okay.
All right, start from the beginning.
[:that I couldn't go to people's houses anymore. I was wasting time- Mm ... traveling. Mm. And so many people wanted to get in with me, so, I was able to move into a house and started my home salon, which I was there for, like, three years. And again, so busy, like, had to, you know, stop taking new clients, all that kind of stuff.
And then the big C word hit, COVID, and that just changed kind of everything that I thought I wanted to do in my, my business. So, I was so comfortable at home. I loved being at home. My clients loved me being at home. But I had to move out of the house that I was in because they were selling. Mm.
[:[00:04:34] Siobhan: Moving forward from that, the house didn't even end up selling, so that they rented it back out after I moved out which was so, like, okay. But then at the same time, I'm like, "Well, the universe wanted me-
[:[00:04:48] Siobhan: to branch out and take the next step." So I ended up renting a chair at a salon, like, in a suburb nearby which was very short-term.
I was only there for, like, six to nine months, which it was really good. Like, it was good being there. It helped me kind of, like, branch out and be like, "Oh, okay, I can work in a space with other people." Mm. Because I always thought when I was on my own, I'm like, "Okay, this is nice, and it's comfortable, but it's pretty fricking lonely."
Mm. Yeah. Like, when you're working, like, just in a room in your house 24/7, sometimes I wouldn't even leave the house for, like, two weeks. Mm.
[:[00:05:21] Siobhan: was doing that at home. 'Cause I wouldn't leave too. Yeah. Yeah, and you love your clients, and you love them coming in, but you just have that little bit of, like, disconnect from what's work and what's, what's home really.
Mm. I mean, my housework was always done, which was good. I could always, like, cook my dinner and all that kind of stuff while they're processing and everything, but it was very lonely. So once I kind of, like, branched out and started renting a chair, it was ... It made me realize, oh God, this is actually, like, a pretty good deal.
And I know a lot of people now are more leaning towards renting chairs and being in collaborative spaces just because it's so, it's- It's nice to have people around you ... it's just fun. Yeah. Yeah. And it's nice to have people around and bounce off. Which led me to my home now, which is at Cliff Newport.
So I started renting a chair at their space in Redcliffe, so that's where she started. So Catherine owns, it was called Cliff Beauty Collective. Oh yeah, Cliff Beauty Collective then. And there was just two chairs, a basin, and then she had her, like, lash beds, like, three lash beds. So it's very small space.
We were all kind of like, I could turn around and be like, "Hey," like, to her and her clients 'cause they were right there. And it was just such a good vibe and, and I was very, very lucky to have found Catherine through one of my friends who knew that I wanted to move on from the salon where I was at. She's like, "I've got a friend.
She's exactly like you. You guys are like twins. You need to come work here." And it was in that, I guess, like, interview meeting her that she let me know that they were building a salon at Newport. So as soon as I as soon as I moved into the Redcliffe space, I knew Newport was happening, and I knew that's where I was going, like, with them.
And for the last four years we've been at the Newport space. So when I moved there, I decided, okay, I'm getting busier. There's an opportunity for me to rent more chairs. And it went from, okay, let's rent two chairs to, oh, well, might- let's just do four, because I might put on an apprentice, and then we're gonna need more chairs.
And then I'm like, okay, well, I've got me and an apprentice, and now I'm gonna hire my mom, which is another part of the story. But I'm gonna hire my mom, so maybe we need more chairs than that, and it just turned into me renting-
[:[00:07:44] Siobhan: the whole hair
[:[00:07:46] Siobhan: Mm. Yeah. Like, within that salon.
And God, that was such a huge, like, huge thing for me. 'Cause, like, I'd spent so much time just being in this little, like, bubble and being on my own, and then all of a sudden having staff, and I had no fricking clue what I was doing. Like, I literally had no clue. I didn't even have, like, break evens, or I didn't even have...
Like, I knew the bills, but I didn't even know how much we had to make an hour to, like, keep that running. Mm. And so I kind of, like, launched myself into it. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna learn, like, along the way. And over the last four years it has just been crazy- ... to the point that I am now back to just working on my own with my mom.
[:[00:08:40] Siobhan: Mm-hmm.
[:[00:08:42] Siobhan: And then I hired a senior stylist- Yeah ... who quit on her first day when we opened in Newport.
[:[00:08:51] Siobhan: Which was, which was amazing. What do you
[:[00:08:54] Siobhan: she just left at the end of the day.
Just said, "I, I don't wanna work here anymore," and just left on her first day. And so then I was like, okay, I've, I've organized and done everything for the team that I've got now, and, and, yeah- And now you
[:[00:09:16] Siobhan: and now I don't have that team. So it was just me, my mom, and the apprentice. And that was very, very stressful.
'Cause obviously you spend so much time, like, planning and organizing to, like, for those people- Mm ... and then they can just up and leave- Mm. Yeah ... like that, and there's nothing you can do about it- Mm-mm ... kinda thing. And then over the years I've hired people that have, you know, stayed short-term. I've had some long-term, like, employees.
But by the end, and this is, like, very recent, like, this is, like- What, like six months ago
[:[00:09:51] Siobhan: had, you know, a very interesting employee you know, leave the space, which has actually... It was a blessing in disguise, as stressful as it was. Was
[:[00:10:03] Siobhan: oh yeah, a decent, decent amount of time.
[:[00:10:06] Siobhan: Yeah. And it was, yeah, it was a blessing in disguise in that it helped me make the decision at, that I did.
[:[00:10:15] Siobhan: And now it's just me and Mum working together.
[:[00:10:19] Siobhan: And honestly, the stress-
[:[00:10:23] Siobhan: the financial stress, the emotional stress, the mental stress, everything is, like, just kind of, like, calming down, and I'm like, "Okay, this is, this is where I'm meant to be now."
[:[00:10:34] Siobhan: Yeah. Like where I started. And but, you know, I've had those experiences now, so it's kind of like-
[:[00:10:41] Siobhan: Yeah ... checked
[:[00:10:42] Siobhan: Yeah. Been there, done that, checked it off, and I'm like, "Okay, I'm good on my own."
[:[00:11:04] Siobhan: I think I'm very much a person that I give a lot of myself to people, and I care a lot, and I'm very empathetic, and I think that worked against me in a lot of ways. Mm. And I think the main thing that I really was like, "Holy shit," like I never thought it would kind of be like this, is that as much as you want to have a relationship with your employees, and as much as you kind of like give, give, give, and you care about them, and you kind of like do as much as you can for them, at the end of the day, not all of them, but for most of them, it's a job.
[:[00:11:47] Siobhan: It's a job for them. Mm. And it's, it's a job that just pays their bills. And so, yeah, at the end of the day, if anything goes on in their lives that they need to like quit suddenly or, you know, can't show up at work suddenly or whatever, it's, yeah, the, it's, they've got their own lives, and at the end of the day it's just a job.
[:when people left. But you were like, "Hold on, it's just a job." Yeah. Mm. Just as much as when clients choose to leave. They're paying you-
[:[00:12:36] Samara: for a service. Yeah. So you can't be mad at a client if they, uh- Yeah ... wanna go elsewhere- Mm-hmm ... because they're paying you. They don't owe you anything. Your team's kind of the same, and it's really like a hard pill to swallow.
But I think once you learn it, I think you can much better lead- Yeah ... it. Yeah. Because if you can, does, you can still get close to your team, but if, I think you can compartmentalize a little bit more that- Yeah ... they are still working for you and their lives still come first.
[:[00:13:01] Samara: And I think in the beginning you kinda don't think that way because- Oh, no
it's, you know, you th- you go, "But I need as much, I want you to love this business like I love this business," but they're not invested in this business.
[:[00:13:12] Samara: You know? They are- Yes ... at the end of the day working for a business.
[:[00:13:15] Samara: It is a job.
[:Mm. Like I've always struggled with being like, "Okay, well maybe this person's different, and like maybe they'll love this place just as much as I do, and like put in 100% all the time like I do." And it's just, it's just not the case. Mm. And I think that was the hardest thing for me. And- I think it was just so much easier for me to make the decision that I did, which was so hard.
Like, the last thing I had to do was let go of my apprentice. Mm. And I loved her. Like, she'll probably listen to this now. She'll be like, "Oh, she loved me." But like, I put a lot into her, and she was kind of like my first apprentice that was... Like, I've had a couple of apprentices kind of like come and go, but she was like the first one that I thought, "Oh my God, I'm gonna see her through her apprenticeship, and she's not going anywhere."
[:[00:14:12] Siobhan: Like, and I knew that in my head. I'm just like, "She's not going anywhere." Like, we have such a good relationship and-
[:What level was she?
[:[00:14:23] Samara: Yeah. Okay.
[:Like, they've learned all of the- Fundamentals ... all of the fundamentals. Like, all of like the like ground level stuff, and now they're starting to really like step up. You know? Like the next six months she's gonna like pop off- Mm. Yeah ... kind of thing. And she had already developed, 'cause she had been with me since school-based, school-based apprentice, and then came out of school and started her apprenticeship like full time.
She had developed so many relationships with clients. Clients were trusting her. Like, I could move clients onto her, like things like that, and so it was getting to that point. The only reason that I couldn't keep her on was just it was way too much financial stress on all of us-
[:[00:15:07] Siobhan: to be able to hit our bottom numbers consistently every single week without anyone being sick- Mm.
Yeah ... without anyone going on annual leave, without anyone like having time off, anything like that. Mm. And then also too, like if I was sick, she can't be there on her own. Mm.
[:[00:15:26] Siobhan: You know? Like things like that. So it would just be too much of, Yeah, it would just be too hard- Mm ... to be able to keep her on, and that was like the saddest thing.
[:[00:15:35] Siobhan: Really. It was sad. I like bawled my eyes out. She
[:[00:15:40] Siobhan: Yeah. So I I actually found her a job with one of my friends. Oh, perfect ... and she's there now. She's been there, and I've been watching her journey, and she's been doing so well. But if I could have like a few more of her, Mm.
It would've been, it would've been fine, or if I could just clone myself it would be fine. But
[:[00:16:01] Siobhan: Basically. Basically. So my mom has been in the hair industry since I was so young, so I grew up in her salon. And- It's... I, I honestly grew up never really wanting to do hair.
Like, I was always in the salon and everything, but you... it was never, I guess, like, I never sat back and thought, "Oh yeah, I'm gonna do this. Like, I'm gonna follow in mom's footsteps and do this." But it wasn't until I was in high school, and I'm pretty much every hairdresser's the same. We don't concentrate, we don't sit still, we are disruptive in class, and all that kind of stuff, so my grades were just shocking.
Like, shocking. And she basically said if I don't get my grades up, I'm doing an apprenticeship with her. So it didn't happen, and so I did an apprenticeship, and then just started hairdressing- Mm ... working in her salon in Wellington. So you did
[:[00:17:01] Siobhan: Yes.
[:[00:17:02] Siobhan: she was, she was definitely hard on me in a good way.
[:[00:17:08] Siobhan: In a good way. And it, because I was, like, 15, 16, you know, we're hard too. We're hard to handle.
[:[00:17:15] Siobhan: You
[:[00:17:21] Siobhan: Yeah. And like, things like if I tried to call in sick you know, she'd be like, "No, you're not sick," and she would just come to my house-
and like, make me come to work. Like, things like that, you know? Like, it's... So you have it a little bit harder- Yeah ... when your mom's your boss. But at the same time, you know, I, yeah, I really, like, value that time that I had with her as a teenager, and I think it kind of like, I was always such a good teenager.
I was the good girl, you know, didn't really get into much trouble, but I think it kind of kept me, kept me in line, which is good.
[:[00:18:02] Siobhan: So, I, when I finished my apprenticeship, 'cause I grew up in Rockhampton, so I'm not from Brisbane.
But I had finished my apprenticeship, worked as a hairdresser for a couple of years. I moved to Brisbane in my early 20s, and I actually did nursing. Oh.
[:[00:18:19] Siobhan: Yeah. Yeah, so I did enrolled nursing at The Mater. And ended up doing that for a couple of years after I finished training, and moved to the UK for a couple of years, and then it wasn't until I moved back from the UK that I was just like, "Okay, what am I gonna do?"
Like, what's my, like, career choice now? And Mom was working at a salon around the corner from where she lives in Narangba, and she was just like, "I can get you a job here. Do you wanna come back to hairdressing?" And I was just like, "Okay." I'm like, "Righto." So I just got back, like, not even touching hair that much for, like, what, like, almost five years.
[:[00:18:57] Siobhan: And just starting into a salon with a full book of clients, and it just comes back to you. Mm. Like, it took a little bit, but it just comes back to you, because it's just so, like, ingrained. It's like riding a bike. Yeah. Funnily enough, I actually got fired from that job.
[:[00:19:14] Siobhan: I think, so the owner of that salon, he wasn't a very nice guy.
Mm. He was, he was pretty horrible. And I, you know, saw it pretty much from the get-go, but I was just like, "Okay, I'll just work here and just see how we go." And because I hadn't been back in Australia for a couple of years 'cause I lived in the UK, I said to him, "I need Christmas off this year because I haven't seen my family for like two Christmases and I'm go- I'm spending time with my family."
And he's just like, "No, you can only have like the public holidays off." Ugh. "Like, you have to come back to work." And I was just like, "Okay." So
[:[00:19:51] Siobhan: I know. I know. I
[:[00:19:55] Siobhan: Yeah, I know. It doesn't... Yeah. Anyway, so he so I kind of like gave it back to him a little bit.
And yeah, one Saturday I'd finished working on that Saturday, and he came in and he... I was counting up the till and doing all that, and we always like, at the end of the week, we count, count up the till and just give him the money and all that kind of stuff. And as soon as I pass the money over, he's just like, "Oh, and your key please."
And I was like, "What?" I'm like, "Excuse me?" And he's just like, "Oh, I need your key. Like, we just don't think you're the right fit in here." And I'm like, "Okay." So I gave him the key back and like left. And I was like crying. I was just like, "What the hell is happening?" If I knew what I knew about Fair Work now, I probably would've done something about it.
But that weekend, that's when I got my like hair kit, plastic basin, and started- Mm ... my mobile hairdressing, and that's how my business came to be, basically. Yeah. And then Mom basically messaged him at the start of her next shift and said, "Oh, I'm not coming in today. I quit."
[:[00:20:57] Siobhan: She was casual, so it's
[:[00:20:58] Siobhan: a- Okay, that's an
[:Fair Work. Yeah. What do you know about it? Everything. Girl,
[:[00:21:06] Samara: about- I feel like this is a thing that no one- Agree ... really knows.
[:I wanna get this right Area manager-
[:[00:21:29] Siobhan: for Rild.
[:[00:21:30] Siobhan: So she's like, she, she's worked her way quite high up, always been in, like, HR, people management- Roger David- ... all that kind of stuff ... does that still
[:[00:21:38] Siobhan: I don't think so. I don't
[:[00:21:40] Siobhan: No. I
[:[00:21:43] Samara: Me too. That was what was going through my head. I'm like- Yeah ... I don't think that exists anymore.
[:[00:21:46] Jen: Anyway, continue.
[:Like, "Can I say this? Can I say that?" Like, "What do I do?" And she would kind of pull me in line and just be like, "You can't do this. You can't say that. You can't do this." And like, at every single roadblock you'd be like, "Well, what can I do?" Yeah. Yeah. Like, what can I do then? And then it's like even when you need to have certain conversations, you can't just say what you need to say.
Mm. Yeah. And I feel like a lot of the time if you could just sit down with someone and be so, especially employees, and just be so open-minded and being like, "This is what you're doing. I'm not gonna freaking deal with it anymore."
[:[00:22:35] Siobhan: If you don't pull your head in, this is what's gonna happen." But you literally can't say that and then you have to run rings around it- Mm
and do, like, performance management and all that kind of stuff. And I think, like, the gray area is where sometimes, like, for some people, again, not, not all employees, but for some employees the respect just doesn't happen because they're just like, "Oh, well you can't do this." Mm. "I know you can't do this.
I know you can't do that" kind of thing. Yeah. So, but yeah, I've learned a lot about fair work in the last four years.
[:[00:23:11] Siobhan: Yeah.
[:[00:23:21] Siobhan: Yeah, it's hard.
[:[00:23:40] Samara: Mm.
[:[00:23:42] Siobhan: Yeah.
[:[00:23:55] Siobhan: Yeah.
[:If you've got a good thing- Yeah. Oh, yeah, we had
[:[00:24:02] Samara: Like I just... I, I truly don't believe that. Not everybody wants to work for themselves. Some people just love- Not everybody should work for themselves. No. And not everyone
[:[00:24:07] Samara: No. You know, a lot of people just love coming to work, doing their job, and going home.
Like, they don't have to deal with any of the back shit that I have to deal with. Yeah. But it's just becoming harder to have larger teams, unless you have so much structure and you kinda step back. I think we're such emotional beings as hairdressers- Yeah Yeah ... that it's really hard for us to do the, the that and the other side of it.
Yeah. For us we're like, "Oh, just put me on the hair and it's easier, and I know everything's managed, and I know it's done the way I like it." And- Yeah ... but it's exactly right, is what's gonna happen? Who's gonna train our future apprentices? Like what- Yeah Yeah ... does this look like? Because I am, I feel lucky enough that I have trained some incredible apprentices- But I'm done training apprentices.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, so if those apprentices all go out and do their own thing, who trains the next generation?
[:[00:25:00] Jen: Yeah.
[:[00:25:09] Siobhan: Mm ...
[:you know, like... And I go, I had some angel apprentices- Mm ... and Indy's still with me now, and she's a dream, and I've been very lucky with apprentices. I've had the most incredible girls. But you do go, it's all so exhausting because you have to find more time in what you're already doing to future train, and then you're like, if that person leaves straight away, I've gained nothing back from it.
Yeah. You've like providing the time and making- Yeah ... sure they're doing the things, and it's just, it's too mu- it's, you get to a point where you're just like, "I'm tired. It's too much." Yeah. It's too many things. Yeah. It's t- too, and it's not my love, it's Jen's. Yeah. And again, if people like Jen get exhausted by it- Yeah
we're fucked because- Yeah ... who's going to actually train the next generation?
[:[00:26:02] Samara: and it's gonna have to completely flip its models and of what that looks like in Australia. That's scary. So I don't know. I don't know what the answer is here, but we're having too much of this conversation where the salon owner- Yeah
is exhausted- Yeah Yeah ... because there's no help and no support, and then everything, we feel like w- it's us that it's getting judged, and we're- Yeah ... having to, I don't know, it's, I don't know what the answer is- Yeah ... but it's, it's rough.
[:Yeah ... your own personal life, and then you're having to run a business. Like I had a really traumatic car accident last year. In June last year, I had a car accident. On the motorway, me and my partner were driving back from my brother's house, and we just smashed into the back of someone on the highway.
Mm. Mm. And the whole front end of my car like came in, all the airbags went. I was like in such shock, I like hardly remember like-
[:[00:26:58] Siobhan: what happened. But I fractured my sternum from it, and like I've got a whiplash injury. Yeah. And so- That's a very hectic injury to have, especially for a hairdresser.
For sure. It's all upper body, like all upper body stuff. And the most, which this is so crazy, but the most stressful part for me of that whole thing was when can I get back to work?
[:[00:27:23] Siobhan: When can I get back to work? 'Cause I've got employees, I've got bills to pay. I have to try and pay myself because I have personal bills.
Mm. And it's like you, there's, apart from your employees and like your business, there's no like help for like self-employed people or- Correct. Yeah ... small businesses in that way, unless you've got like personal income protection and all that kind of stuff. Which I
[:[00:27:47] Siobhan: I know ... to anybody who has- I know now that, now that I'm on my own- Yes
I'm like, okay, I'm definitely doing this. So if you're on
[:[00:27:57] Jen: You still have to pay the bills ...
[:Yeah.
[:[00:28:07] Samara: you know, you're not gonna just walk away. Like, I think people see an income as a sole employee and they're like- Yeah ... "So much better than what I'm getting." Yeah. But then once you break down all of the- Yeah ... additional hours, the sick pay, the super- Yeah ... the holiday pay, it's for everything extra you're doing, is it really worth it?
Exactly. That's why- Yes ... you know, working for someone, you're just like, "It's sorted." Yeah. You know, if something happened to the girls, they know they're good. Yeah. They know I have them. Yeah. Whereas we need to make sure that we have us, and it's things like that.
[:Yeah. Like, just rem- remembering that you still must have your sick pay. You still must- Yeah ... pay your super. Yeah. Like, you don't want... You c- can I just say, to all those young people out there-
[:[00:28:55] Jen: like, retirement comes around real fast.
[:[00:28:58] Jen: Real fucking fast. And it
[:You're like, "I'm s- I'm never getting old." But all of a sudden you're like, there is
[:[00:29:08] Samara: Yeah, me too.
[:[00:29:15] Siobhan: same.
[:[00:29:16] Samara: I'm f- I'm 30 for five more minutes it feels like.
[:[00:29:26] Samara: Yeah
[:[00:29:32] Samara: Yeah.
[:[00:29:35] Samara: Lee was the same way, my partner. He owned his own business for years and never, ever paid himself super. So like, he should be sitting at, you know, like by his age he should be at $180,000, $200,000 in super.
Mm. And he had like $19,000 in super from when he was young. Yeah. And it's like one day. Like, and you can't just be like, "We'll see what happens when it gets to there." Like even for us, we bought a- our new house in our 40s, which means technically it's not paid off until we're 70.
[:[00:30:04] Siobhan: God. Yeah.
[:Yeah. Like, where do we live? Like, you've gotta think about all the financial things that come with that because you can't work forever.
[:[00:30:20] Siobhan: Yes.
[:[00:30:21] Siobhan: girl. So I actually started putting my super away properly.
Like, direct debit comes out in the middle of the week too, so I don't even think of it. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's already taken out before I even do, like my end of week, you know, finances.
[:[00:30:39] Jen: See, I've always paid it weekly.
[:[00:30:41] Samara: Yeah. I, I haven't- Yeah ... 'cause it just never was a thing, so you just pay it monthly.
And I, or, or quarterly. I, my mon- al- it always went away, so it never- Yeah, you would... Yeah Like, so I was m- I was, I'm so meticulous with those things. But I think for every business owner that's new and every business owner that's struggling, it's like the super can get left, and then all of a sudden they get this huge super bill- Oh, yeah
and it's terrifying.
[:[00:31:08] Siobhan: Yeah ...
[:[00:31:10] Samara: And that's the thing is you know I am at the stage in my business where I know week to week whether I was profitable or not.
[:[00:31:17] Samara: That's a really, really, really- a fun place to be at. It's like everybody knows I love finances, I love teaching them because... And don't get me wrong, I'm also not a stickler. Jen tells me that what?
[:without flinching. Without flinching. Sure.
[:[00:31:47] Siobhan: my God. I'll just
[:[00:31:52] Siobhan: Oh my
[:[00:31:54] Jen: Because you know where, where
[:[00:31:56] Siobhan: Yeah. Yep,
[:into such a nightmare.
[:[00:32:03] Samara: Mm-hmm. But I know where every dollar is, in my personal life and in my business-
[:[00:32:07] Samara: that I can make decisions like that off a whim because I know that I'm fine. Like, nothing is made out of hopefully- Yeah ... I don't need this for something else. Yeah. Yep. That's the beauty of it. I can make decisions and drop 5 or $10,000 on a Christmas party for my team because I know where every dollar lives.
[:[00:32:25] Samara: And I think that is power, whether you're on your own or whether you own a business with lots of people, by the end of the week you should know whether that week was profitable or not. And it's so simple. Like- Yeah. Yeah ... it's not rocket science. It's really looking at your costs over a week and really- Yeah
putting them where it needs to be, and your tax, and the super being paid- Yeah ... and all of the things. Yeah. So you can look at your account on a Monday, everyone knows I'm meticulous on a Monday, and everything can be transferred out to where it needs to be. To be. And you go, "All right, how did the week look?"
Are we under? Are we over? Are we good? Because if you can't do that, then don't fucking employ anyone. Yeah. Sorry, I'm in my swearing era today. Don't employ anyone because if you don't know what that looks like, employing someone is the most terrifying thing you can possibly do. And it just, it can
[:[00:33:14] Siobhan: Yeah. Yeah.
[:[00:33:14] Siobhan: And that's where I was when I moved the business to Newport, and I had no fricking clue.
[:[00:33:20] Siobhan: I had no clue.
[:[00:33:28] Siobhan: 100%.
[:but still making more. And e- even one of my clients, I think about her all the time, I've had a client that I've had for years, God bless her, and she's like, "Samara, just put your prices up." And she's already spending, like, 5, $600 on my dress. She's like, "Just put your price up." Like-
[:[00:33:47] Samara: you know, you have... And that's okay.
Some people aren't gonna afford it, and some people aren't gonna see the value in it. Yeah. And that's okay. Those people go.
[:[00:33:53] Samara: But if you have the clients that you can put your prices up with and know that they're still gonna be in your chair each week because they really value your service- Yep ... it feels completely different.
[:[00:34:22] Samara: Yes. Yep.
[:[00:34:24] Samara: And if you're fully booked, you can put your prices up. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. If you are fully booked with a wait list, put your prices up. It's okay to do that. That's the only way to make more money. Actually Mia Connor put something up about this. She's a- Makeup artist ... makeup artist. Everybody knows who Mia is generally.
And she's just like, "The thing is, is I don't have any more capacity than what I have." Yeah. "The only thing I can do to make more money to support myself is to increase my prices. That's it. That's the only thing I can do."
[:[00:34:53] Samara: And she's like, "And sometimes I price myself out," but she's like, "But I'm okay with that because the ones that wanna pay it will pay it because-"
[:[00:35:02] Samara: You know? And then she's like, "And then I don't have to be exhausted, busting my ass in seven different places." She's like, "Instead, I get to be focused on one wedding or one bridal party," whatever that looks like. Yeah. So I just think, yeah, I- We kind of went off tangent, but I do think that, as you said, you can't price yourself based off anyone around you.
You've gotta price yourself based- and don't, if you are quiet, don't up your prices. Like, if you're dead and you're like, "But I need to make money and I'll just up my prices," this is not the point of it. It's make sure your pri- prices are solid based on your expenses, but then as you get really fully booked, which you should be, especially yourself-
[:[00:35:44] Samara: and if not, you need to find out why, then you can put your prices up and go, "Well- Yeah ... I am, I'm at capacity." Yeah. And that's kind of where you're at now.
[:[00:35:55] Samara: Yeah.
[:[00:35:56] Jen: And see, I really loved when you spoke about why you went into business for yourself-
[:[00:36:03] Jen: what you thought that that was gonna look like, and how actually taking what might be perceived as a step back has given you the business that you always wanted.
[:Mm.
[:[00:36:23] Siobhan: Because, like, I would be like-
[:[00:36:29] Siobhan: Yeah ... you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Like I had nothing to give. Mm. And so, like, here I am back at work two weeks after the accident with a broken fucking sternum- Yeah ... because I have bills to pay.
Mm. Like I have stuff to do. And like, yes, I wasn't on the floor from 9:00 till 5:00. Like, I was going in, like, for a couple of hours a day just to do, like, the foils in one client's hair. Mm. Yeah. And have the girls finish it off. But, like, just being there and being present 'cause I wanted to be, 'cause if I sat at home I was literally just, like-
[:[00:36:59] Siobhan: Yeah
struggling. Yeah. And, and, and checking, like, the schedule, like, multiple times a day being like, "Okay, yep, that client's been. Okay, no one's no-showed." Like- Mm ... all that kind of stuff. It was crazy. And so yeah, my mental capacity just went down.
[:[00:37:14] Siobhan: Because I'm like, "I've got nothing to give anyone." And do I think that affected the way that I could show up for my clients and employees?
Absolutely. Mm-hmm.
[:[00:37:24] Siobhan: Like, the amount of clients that have said to me in the last couple of months that it has just been Mom and I, like, "Oh, you just seem so much more, like- Mm ... relaxed. Like, you just seem like yourself again." Mm. Yeah. Like, because I was just so distracted. Mm. And then, like, you throw in, you know, employees being assholes- Mm.
Yeah ... and, like, employees needing, like, mental health days, and I'm like, "Girl," like-
[:[00:37:49] Siobhan: I'm standing here physically injured still doing the job." Mm. And, like, I'm not saying that mental health days aren't, like, a- I know everyone needs a mental health day. I know everyone, like, mental health is such a huge thing, especially in this industry.
But, like, the resentment comes in-
[:[00:38:05] Siobhan: like, really bad. Yeah.
[:[00:38:11] Siobhan: Go ahead.
[:[00:38:17] Jen: like-
a sense of self-responsibility ...
[:She's like, "Whereas my daughter won't get out of bed every day." Yeah. Like, she's just like, "I can't. It's too hard. My mental health is..." You know, and she's just like, "We haven't built... We need to build the resilience in our kids." Yeah. Like, not be so quick to save them- Yeah ... because they get into a job and they crumble.
Yeah. Yeah. And you're like, because someone said to them, "I, I'm not happy with how you did that." And they're like, "Oh, I need a mental health day 'cause someone told me I wasn't doing a good job when I was sitting on my phone."
[:[00:39:02] Samara: You know,
[:[00:39:06] Samara: Yeah. Like, again, like, the, we have to build resilient kids.
[:[00:39:11] Samara: And, like, Alba today, she's like, "I forgot my shoes." I'm like, "Oh well, you'll deal."
[:[00:39:15] Samara: Like, her footy boots. I'm like, "Well, that's your job, Baba. I'm not saving you. I'm already busy."
[:[00:39:20] Samara: not. Like, no. But we just so quickly save them for the things that they haven't done- Yeah
that it ends up... You know, we, I was having this discussion yesterday, and it's really hard. I saw it from a different point of view where- someone we know, their daughter got in trouble for something, but they're just kind of like, "We would rather her say no, it's, it's not me," so that sh- the fall and effects- Mm
don't affect her in life. And I was like, I said, "Delai, sorry, but if that's our bar we're taking, she's taking her fall." Yeah. Yeah. Because if you do something wrong, you are taking the fall even if it means that it dramatically changes your life, because that's how you learn, little girl. But that's a- Yeah
[:[00:40:04] Samara: Yes. Yeah. But I think when you're saying that, like, don't get me wrong, I know mental health is important. No. I know that. I know that I- Yeah ... like, oh my gosh, on the weekend I had such... I haven't had anxiety for ages and I just lived in this anxiety spiral. Mm.
But I don't make that anyone else's problem because I'm like- Yeah ... I know- Yeah ... I have resilience- Yeah ... and this is the steps I have to take- Yeah ... to actually, like, move me forward. Like, these are things, I've been doing that bloody breathing. If, I was like- ... I thought that was the dumbest thing about learning at that conference.
I thought the breathing was the dumbest thing. I can tell you, five and five breaths, I have done so many of them over the past week. But I know that we have to teach ourselves these things because the anxiety comes from having the hard conversations, and then you have the hard conversation, everyone feels better again.
[:[00:40:48] Samara: But, like, we're not leading our kids to being like, "All right, let's have the hard conversation." We're just like, we have to tiptoe around them. Fair work, we're tiptoeing around it. Mm-hmm. Instead of just being like, "Let's have this hard conversation. Let me make you better, let you make me better." Yeah.
Rather than just, yeah, I don't know. It's a really-
[:like you were- Mm-hmm ... with having your sister and saying like, "Okay, this is the situation." Yep. "What can I say? What can I do?" So that you know that you're going in In, in the r- in the right way. Yeah. I mean, we had a conversation about that recently. I had a staff member that was injured, and I know, like especially your old boss that fired you would've been like, "You have to come to work, da, da, da, da."
I was like, "You are not allowed on the premises until I have written from a medical professional that you are capable- Yeah ... to be here." Yeah. Like, my whole family works in are solicitors. Like, the entire family.
[:[00:41:56] Jen: It... Uh, they're either solicitors or m- medical professionals. It's like, "You're not allowed to be here."
[:[00:42:01] Jen: You need to leave." Yep. "Come back when you've got a doctor's certificate that says you're allowed on site." Yep, 100%. 'Cause I know the fallout that will happen- Mm ... when someone then goes off to their... It's like, "Oh, I don't know, but I just went back to work." It's like, "Nope." Yep. "Get out." Yep.
[:But I feel like even though it was, I look back now and I'm so grateful th- for that experience because it made me who I am today.
[:[00:42:29] Samara: Yeah. It made me fast. It made me on the ball. It made me think about all the other things. Like, because that was like if you work, fair worked that, holy moly, I would've walked away with a billion dollars in bloody- compensation.
Yeah. But it really kind of gave me this, like, work ethic that I don't think I would've got in other places. Yeah.
[:[00:42:53] Samara: But I don't know. I think it's a, it's a tricky... All of that is a tricky subject, but anyway, go back. I just had to, like, hit on that because I think sometimes I, I completely agree with mental health, but, like, what are we doing to this younger generation- Yeah, where's the line?
Yeah ... that we're like, "All right, why can't you get out of bed?" Yeah. Like, what is it? Yeah. What is it? Where are you feeling this right now? Like, what are you doing about it? How are we helping ourselves? Yeah. And I think we built this resilience back in when we started hairdressing. We built a resilience that we were like, okay, like even the girls the other day sent me a meme, and they were like, "Samara," and India and Laura sent it to me.
They're like, "Samara, this is you." And it was, like, a hairdresser out at 4:00 or 4:00 AM, like, drunk, partying, and then it was, like, hairdresser at 9:00 AM. Yes. And she's, like, foiling. Yes. Yes. And they're like, "Samara, this is you." I will- And I was like, "That built so much resilience, babe." It
[:[00:43:42] Siobhan: did. I will never forget, I was...
This is when I was an apprentice for my mom. Will never forget going out, getting home at, like, 5:00 AM. Yeah. 4:00 or 5:00 AM. I would've been, like, 18, so I could, like, you know, back it up. But I was s- I was still probably still a little bit drunk. Oh,
[:[00:44:01] Siobhan: You know? Very drunk. We were all drunk on a Saturday.
We
[:[00:44:04] Siobhan: Yeah, and I'm there doing foils on someone, and I was so sick. I was shaking so much the foil was like ch, ch, ch, ch. And I was just like, "If you would just excuse me one second." And then you go out the back and have a vom- And you spew and come back ... and have a little vom.
And have a V. And then, and, and, and a V and a meat pie or something. Oh,
[:[00:44:22] Siobhan: Meat pie with peas- Yeah. ... tomato sauce. And then you're like, "Righto, let's get back into this." Yeah. Yeah. And then you'd go out again that night.
[:[00:44:29] Siobhan: It was...
[:[00:44:32] Siobhan: so funny.
[:my girls are, like, absolute... Like, Laura's like, "I do not go out on a Friday. We finish at 4:00." Laura's like, "That's... I need to rest."
[:[00:44:41] Samara: But I was like, "That's why I can have five kids and run my life, because I know how to, like-
[:[00:44:45] Samara: Yeah ... put the pressure on me." Yeah. Back it up. Back it up.
[:[00:44:48] Samara: I know how to run a full day of clients and back, but I do feel like, we can all say this 'cause we're all working on the floor, but I am now floored when I finish on a Friday. Oh. Oh,
[:[00:45:03] Samara: I- I
[:Yeah. I do one, and I
[:[00:45:12] Samara: I do two 12, or it's normally, like, 13.
[:[00:45:16] Samara: No break. No. Zero break. I actually can't. I just go. The girls always yell at me- Yeah ... but I'm like, "That's an hour I could fit someone in." Yeah. That's, I'm sorry, I don't have that time. I know. I
[:[00:45:24] Samara: And I know people will come at me and be like, "Yeah, but..."
idn't get up out of bed until:I, like, made- I cooked a
[:[00:45:51] Samara: just cheese on Saturday night. It was so
[:[00:45:54] Samara: was, like, cheese toasties, tomato soup from scratch, but then I also decided to do a baked brie. Don't know why. You did a baked Camembert. Saturday night is for baked cheeses, guys.
[:You do, like, the Camembert or the brie, and then you cut it into little segments, and then you put the salami in. Oh. And then you drizzle it with hot honey, and you bake it in the, Oh my God. Oh. And then you just scoop that up.
[:honey. I did it with pecans, heaps of pecans, and then- Yeah ... honey all over the top, and then baked it for ages- Ah ... until, like, the whole thing exploded.
[:[00:46:32] Samara: Oh,
[:[00:46:34] Jen: Chloe Ferver, I hope you're not listening to this, because it was not on my fitness tracker that I just ate cheese.
[:[00:47:05] Siobhan: Girl
[:[00:47:09] Siobhan: You know what, though? The last few months that I've been working on my own, I am, I'm so busy. Like, I'm booked back to back from the moment I step foot in that salon to w- to when I leave. Most of the time I leave later than what I initially think.
Sometimes I double up clients on my own, sometimes I don't. I am less tired-
[:[00:47:30] Siobhan: 100% ... than I was when I had a team. Because, oh yeah. It's all
[:[00:47:33] Siobhan: is not there. I am less tired. Yeah. Yeah. I can work.
[:[00:47:35] Siobhan: Yeah. I could work my ass off. I can, I can do it... Well, I don't choose to, but like I could do a 12-hour day if I needed to.
[:[00:47:42] Siobhan: Like...
[:[00:47:47] Siobhan: Yeah ...
[:[00:47:52] Siobhan: Yeah, good.
[:Whether your team is 10 and it feels peaceful, or your team is you and it feels peaceful, the whole point of having this business is to not feel like you're in fight or flight.
[:[00:48:06] Siobhan: Yes.
[:[00:48:16] Jen: No. I, and I think that's a really good point to make as well. Even though we're all like, uh, like I think definitely there are people with big teams-
[:[00:48:25] Jen: that- That don't
[:[00:48:26] Jen: that don't feel like they are, you know, exhausted, overwhelmed, da da da da, and they've got systems and processes in
[:and that's fine ... really radical honest, because I think there's also a lot of people like me back in the day that was like, "It's fine." And I was like, "Not."
[:[00:48:45] Samara: Yeah. Like if you just keep saying it, doesn't mean it's true.
[:[00:48:57] Samara: Mm.
[:I work, I have my weekends off, I do all of that. And also too, the financial side, I'm so, I I'm like you now, I know my numbers.
[:[00:49:29] Siobhan: I know exactly what I need to make every single week to have every single bill, tax, everything covered, and anything on top of that, I know, okay, I can put that aside, or maybe I'll pay myself an extra-
[:Mm ...
[:[00:49:49] Jen: Principles ...
[:[00:49:57] Jen: Look, I'm very pro-AI Yeah I think we all know that.
[:[00:50:01] Siobhan: And I figured it out, like, I figured it out on my own.
You know? Yeah. Like-
[:[00:50:08] Siobhan: it out Figure it out. Figure it out. Yeah. And, like, now I'm like, I'm so comfortable with, like, my personal finances and my business finances that I am now experiencing for the first time in four years, like, somewhat, not so much, like, whole financial freedom, but, like, somewhat financial freedom, which just makes it so much more worth it.
[:[00:50:35] Siobhan: Yep ...
[:what is the point of this? Yes. Yeah. Like, I'm putting myself through so much stress and so much pressure, and day to day I feel like I'm gonna, like, hurl, and then you're also financially not abundant from it. Yep. That, that goes what is the point? Like, I understand if you are fi- in fight or flight and your business is wildly successful and you are killing it- Yeah
so you can pay for all the other things to be done. To be done. Yeah. You know, you can pay for all of the bits and pieces to be sorted because you're financially so abundant. Yeah. But if that's not the case, you just really need to reassess where you want... Like, how do you wanna feel in life? Yeah. Yeah.
Because I think that's a big thing of coming to, like, my late 30s, early 40s, is just like how do I actually wanna feel? How do I actually wanna show up? What does my life look like? How can I better myself? And, you know, we talk about that all the time, but if you're in such fight or flight, it's really hard to kind of be like, "Okay, now I need to make sure I drink enough water, and now I need to make sure I go for a walk," and- Yeah
because you're like, "Where? In what time?" But if you're loving what you're doing, you're like, "Oh, I'll fit that in that day," or, "I'll make sure- Yeah ... that I do this- Yeah ... this day." And-
[:[00:51:50] Samara: and you get to the point where you s- feel so valued by your clients as well- Yeah ... because they're like, "You are yourself."
[:You're sitting back, thinking, "What am I gonna do?" Like, "How am I gonna make that decision?" And sometimes, like, making the decision, you have a feeling of like, "Well, I can't make that decision 'cause I've come so far." Mm. Like, I feel like I'm gonna waste the last four years of my life of what I've been building and everything, but-
[:[00:52:36] Siobhan: at the end of the day, it wasn't serving me. It wasn't- Yeah ... serving me personally. It wasn't... There were, yes, there were some moments that filled my cup, and I was like, "Oh, this is nice." Like, this is what I've kind of wanted. But at the end of the day, once everything was kind of, like, taken away, it was like- Oh.
[:But you're clinging onto what- But what you're doing is you're clinging onto- Yeah ... these small moments- Yeah ... like, that you're like, "Oh- Yeah ... 95 of this is shit," but 5%, like this little, like- This little 5%, yeah ... oh my gosh, someone told me that I was doing a good job today. Like- Yeah. You know? And it's the same in personal life, that that's what gets posted, and that's what you're holding onto.
Yeah. Because 95% of your life is in fight or flight My life was like that pers- like personally- Yeah ... obviously years ago. Yeah. And now my life is not like that at all, so even for me, I don't even... Like, I post things, but I'm actually off social media right now because, again, I wanna come back to myself and have that break.
Mm-hmm. But then the same thing on the other side, the same as with your business. If there's only a 5% that you're holding onto, you're like, "But that felt so nice when they did that for me," but 95% feels like- Yeah ... I am drowning- Yeah ... you really need to get back to the balance, because it can feel 95% good and 5% bad.
Like, it can- Yeah. Yeah ... feel the opposite. Yeah. Because if I look at my team now, again, if I posted now how, personally how wonderful Lee was all the time, everyone would be like, "Shut up." If I did the same with my team now, with Indy and Laura and Ton, if I posted how much I adored this team, it... And I look back, and I used to post that all the time with my big team, but it was probably in moments that I just needed to hold on to- Yeah.
Yeah ... when everything else was falling apart. Yeah. Whereas now if I posted how much I adore them, everyone would be like, "Shut up," because I love In- I love the team that I have so much. Mm-hmm. I'm so content- Yeah ... that people can see it in me. Yes. It's not like-
[:[00:54:46] Samara: No. Yeah.
'Cause I'm just so... Like, we don't hardly even post anymore because I'm like, we're just laughing full time. We're idiots full time, and I just like, even with Indy, she's gone on holiday. She's like, "I don't, it's, I love my job."
[:[00:54:58] Samara: It's weird not to be here. Love being here with you guys." But it's just so nice that it's not, you're not just saying it because you need to tell yourself- Yeah
that that's how you feel- Yeah ... in order to get yourself through.
[:[00:55:09] Samara: It's like you actually feel it and embody it, and then that's why your clients are like, "You look great."
[:[00:55:18] Samara: Just don't have as much- Oh, girl ... stress anymore.
Yeah.
[:[00:55:29] Samara: Yeah.
[:[00:55:32] Samara: got lost. And I think other people... I was thinking about that. I think other people can still make that decision.
If you got a team because you don't love doing hair, and you still hate all of it, flip your life on its axis and do something else. Yeah.
[:[00:55:43] Samara: Like, you don't have to stay doing this job- No ... if this job doesn't fill you, because we know hairdressers that don't like what they do should not be hairdressers.
[:[00:55:50] Jen: Anyone that doesn't like what they do shouldn't be doing what they're doing. Shouldn't be doing it. Shouldn't be doing what
[:[00:55:54] Samara: So I was like- Yeah ... change it up. Do something different. Go and be a rep or go do something. Yeah. Or get out of this industry altogether. It's never too late to be like, "I need to- Yeah
flip this on my head 'cause I'm- Yeah ... I don't love it."
[:Yeah. I'm ch- I gotta change it up kind of thing. Mm. And they're just like, "Oh my God, because you did it, I'm ... I, I never thought that I could do it." But once other people start being honest about it and putting it out there, like when I put up the post being like, you know, the changes that have been made, and then I, like, backed it up with another post, like, talking about, like, why I made the decision that I did.
People are just like, "Oh, shit, you can make changes in your business." Mm. Yes. Just because you've got a team and just because you've been doing this for X amount of time doesn't mean that you can't change it.
[:[00:56:51] Siobhan: You know, your life changes over that, like, time period.
[:[00:56:55] Siobhan: Your employees' lives change, changes over that time period.
Mm. Why can't you? Mm. Like, why can't you change?
[:[00:57:02] Siobhan: And so yeah, it's been really good.
[:Mm. Mm. And you do. Mm. Everybody has the right to change, and I know it feels- Treat
[:with your apprentice, where you go, "Actually, just like they put themselves first, I have to put myself first." Yeah, it
[:[00:57:44] Jen: Yeah ...
[:[00:57:46] Samara: love that.
[:I cried about it so much. Like, I was crying almost every single day. Like, just standing in the shower just being like, "How am I gonna get rid of Ellie?" Like, you know, like things like that. And, but at the end of the day, I'm just so glad. I, in that moment, I was just like, it's okay. In six months' time you're gonna look back and you're gonna be like- Mm.
Yeah ... okay, and here we are- Yeah ... almost at the six-month mark. Yeah. And I'm just like, best decision I ever made.
[:[00:58:15] Siobhan: Yeah.
[:[00:58:18] Siobhan: Yeah. Mm.
[:Yeah ... for a lot of people.
[:[00:58:32] Jen: And we're just really happy that you're looking after yourself-
[:[00:58:35] Jen: I'm doing good ... and that you are thriving.
[:[00:58:41] Jen: Pleasure. Okay, guys, thanks so much for listening. We will be back very soon.
