I’ve told a lot of stories over the years, but watching Jen Welter tear up while reading a handwritten note from one of her linebackers? That one stuck with me.

Jen was the first woman to coach in the NFL, but what makes her story unforgettable isn’t just that milestone. It’s what it took to get there. No guidebook. No road map. Just a clear plastic bag, a heart full of determination, and the guts to cold call the Arizona Cardinals.

She opens up about the good, the gritty, and the completely unexpected parts of being “the first”—and why those handwritten notes might’ve mattered more than any play she called.

What You’ll Discover:

• Why a simple handwritten note made national headlines (06:20)
• What it really felt like to step onto that NFL sideline (10:35)
• The power and pressure of being “the first” in a locker room with no precedent (23:04)
• How one cold call changed the course of her life (27:22)
• Building trust one conversation, one linebacker at a time (41:42)
• Why women in leadership need true advocates, not just mentors (57:13)

There’s something about Jen’s journey that stays with you. The behind-the-scenes moments that don't make it into the highlight reel. The quiet decisions. The handwritten notes. The way she just kept showing up with no rulebook to follow. The quiet courage it takes to be the first. Jen’s story is a master class in showing up fully—even when the playbook doesn’t exist yet.

If you’ve ever wondered how to keep showing up when the path isn’t clear, this one’s for you.

To watch the video version on YouTube, click here: https://youtu.be/1g34SPXKy4s 

To see the full transcript and much more, check out the blog post: https://www.lindsaycz.com/show-notes/jen-welter

Connect with Jen Welter

Follow Jen on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/welter47/ or check out her website: https://www.jenwelter.com/. 

Check out this ESPN article celebrating 10 years since Jen Welter was hired: “How Jen Welter's hire 10 years ago opened NFL to more women”

To see the iconic photo and read more about the handshake moment between Jen Welter and Sarah Thomas, check out this article.  

[00:00:27] And that every single one of my players was in that moment, too. Like this is that big dream for that little boy who caught a pass and said, maMamaI'm gonna play in the NFL one day. Right? Stop it. Stop it. This is where they all are, right? But that's, yeah. And the second I realized that, and realized as a coach, it's not about you anymore, right?

[00:00:57] Lindsay: Hey everybody, I'm Lindsay Czarniak, and this is Things No One Tells You. This is a podcast about the behind-the-scenes moments that shape who we are, those things that are also really relatable and really connect us.

[00:01:29] Hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of Things No One Tells You. I have known forever, basically, that I wanted to talk to this woman for an episode because I really couldn't wait for you guys to hear her story. I am talking today to Dr. Jen Welter, and I'm gonna give you some backstory here.

[00:02:09] I was at the Indy 500 last year, and e.l.f. Cosmetics, which I love, asked me to partner with them to do a. Twitch broadcast at the 500, talking about makeup, talking about race car drivers who were women, talking about the sport in general. And lo and behold, I go into this tent that is amazing with all this makeup hung on the walls to look like it's in a race shop.

[00:02:54] And I was sent to cover a story, work on a feature for ESPN, on Dr. Jen Welter, because she had just made history as the first female coach in the NFL. She was working with the Arizona Cardinals, and what I remember most is watching her with the players. When we went there, we went to practice. I remember showing up there, it was so hot, and we're on the practice field and there's Jen just doing her thing, just in it with all the players talking to 'em, you know, laughing with them, getting on them, bringing them things.

[00:03:40] A coach who knows how to school you on and off the field. And that is so Jen Welter, because one of my favorite stories in this episode is a story that she shared with me back in the day about one of the ways that she found to really get to her players, and you know, in football and other sports. But what I've learned is, besides the common phrase that players always say of Don't get too high, don't get too low, something coaches always talk about is that the really, really good ones know how to reach basically how to, how to like

[00:04:35] And so I want you to listen for the story that she shares about a funny moment and how she did that and how one of the players basically called her out. And I think it's great. I'm so glad he did. In this conversation, Jen is gonna take us back to what it's like actually being the only woman in the room.

[00:05:24] She was coaching the linebackers out there, correct? Yeah. And Jen. it was so cool because I just remember there, I have so many memories about that moment, like going out there, talking to you and the thing that sticks out most is watching you inside the bubble, just. With the players, you know? And so there are so many other things.

[00:06:00] Jen: Well, first of all, let me give y'all background on how I remember this lady, because she did the, I'm gonna make you cry interview.

[00:06:07] Lindsay: No.

[00:06:09] Lindsay: Really?

[00:06:22] Lindsay: Really?

[00:06:30] Now I thought that that would never make it out of the locker room. I was just

[00:06:38] Jen: And these were not game notes. These were like about you as a human. Right. And one of my linebackers at the time, Kevin Minter, had told a reporter about these notes and I looked at 'em and I was like, Kev, you kind of sold me out.

[00:07:18] You mean like this one? And it was the note from Kevin and I was like, oh. So she got me to do the like, now I've gotta read this note on camera. And meanwhile I get a text from Kevin at the same time. I don't know if you knew this. No. And he said, he just sent me a text which said, coach, make sure you get my note back.

[00:07:41] Lindsay: Wow. Yeah. And he still has it. And he still has it. He has it at his mama's house. He said that recently, right?

[00:08:07] So to actually be able to have that human connection. Was something that they really thrived with, right? And it's not that a woman is better or worse, but how good is it to have a combination of different voices around such a tough scenario? Because what they might be able to talk to me about, they may not have been able to talk to another coach about and vice versa.

[00:08:59] Lindsay: Oh, so what did the note say and take me back to the, the beginning of when you decided you wanted to write the note. So the notes 'cause you did it for Yeah, several players. I did, yeah.

[00:09:19] And I mean, I swear at that time, I mean, people don't know how hard it was and I, I did my best to just hold it together. But, you know, the commentary was either she's the death of the patriarchy or the champion for all women kind. Right. Like nobody was neutral, no gray area. No, there was, there was no gray area.

[00:10:06] It'd be like, dun, dun, dun. Like everybody would turn like, here's this chick. Like, I don't know what they thought if the linebackers were gonna just come out and forget how to tackle, but like, it was, you know, it was intense. And the night before that first game, like that Saturday night is, it's the time when all the guys are with their families.

[00:10:31] Lindsay: So, first game of the season, right? And

your first time with them in their first NFL game of the season.

[00:10:44] It was this, and, and I remember like, my mind was just so loud with every bad possible scenario, right? Like, picture yourself running out on the field and face planning and Fred, like international news, you know, like we've all been there, right? It's so human. And I couldn't get out of my own mind or out of my own way.

[00:11:25] Right? But that's, that's, yeah. And the second I realized that and realized as a coach, it's not about you anymore, right? This, this moment isn't about me, it's about all of those men and that the voices in their head were probably as cruel as mine. And I want, I wished I could have every one-on-one conversation I'd had with every one of those men because I knew what the voices in their heads would say if it was my voice.

[00:12:13] And, and then I got back to my hotel and I sat up pretty much all night and just remembered every one-on-one conversation. 'cause I was big on one-on-ones with the guys. I'm not a yeller, you know, like it's that personal minute that somebody just needs a minute. Right. And Kevin's note in particular was about owning the huddle because at that time the question mark surrounding Kevin Minter is he was having to step up in some really big cleats.

[00:12:59] Lindsay: Bruce Arians, who was the head coach of the Cardinals.

[00:13:08] And that speaks to Bruce as a human. But everybody was comparing Kevin to Larry Foote. And, the question was, could he own the huddle? 'cause Kevin's a little bit more on the quiet side, right? You have no question about whether he could hit the gap, whether he knew each knew his job, none of those things, but owning his huddle.

[00:13:49] Because after I got myself through that very hard note and realized this first of all, that like when you're writing notes, you should paste yourself. Because if you start out with me with really long notes in the beginning, then you have to write really long notes to everybody because

[00:14:07] Jen: That's right. Right? That's right.

[00:14:09] Jen: Yeah, it makes a difference. And guys, compare everything. So the last thing I wanted…

[00:14:16] Jen: We know this for real, you know this, know compare everything something, but like No, no, no. Really, they compare everything. Oh, that's, can you imagine if, like, I wrote a book to one guy and the next one was like, have a great game.

[00:14:50] And then the next day I'm like, wow. Oh, I gotta, I got a game to get to. So it was the best thing in the world because the time flew by because it wasn't about me, it was about them. And as a coach, that's what's so important. But now like, let's talk about a rookie. Okay? 'cause I'm a full rookie, like I went from women's football and being in a place where the closest I've ever, ever been to in NFL sidelines was the nosebleed section to now my first NFL game as a coach.

[00:15:43] I, I had no idea. So I take my notes like they, you didn't have like a coaching, like credentialed that No, I mean, I have a coaching credential, but nobody said like, you don't have to go in the main, like nobody said anything. And I also didn't know where I was gonna change. I was not gonna change in the locker room.

[00:16:18] Right. No one told me anything, but then I'm like, what do I do with my notes? Like I don't want them to take my notes. So I put all of my notes into a clear plastic cardinals bag. And I'm like carrying it with me. I don't know how I'm gonna get the notes in the locker room. I don't even know if I'm really supposed to go in, 'cause I don't want to be awkward for the guys.

[00:16:54] Lindsay: And Bettcher at the time

[00:17:05] And he looks at me and he's like, coach, it's way too late for notes. We put in the game plan on Wednesday and I'm like. It's not that kind of note, right? Like these are on like leadership. Oh, he thought you were, oh, wow. Yep, yep. 'cause again, things that nobody told you, nobody told me anything. Nobody told me you couldn't write notes.

[00:17:48] Like, and this poor equipment guy, I mean, he'd been with the Cardinals for a very long time and he'd never had to deal with having a woman there, right? Like when he called me the first time I talked to him and he was like, tell me what your pants size is, sir. What kind of pants are we talking about here?

[00:18:09] Lindsay: Oh my god.

[00:18:25]  Bettcher said you would put these notes in their locker for me. And I like ran away before he told me it was not okay. So you know, all of these things on like a day that everyone else assumes that I know because they all know it. It's fluid, it's second nature for them. But I'm the ultimate outsider, so nobody's telling me anything.

[00:19:01] And he goes. Do you know what we coach is doing this time? And I was like, no. And he goes, go and talk to the coaches on the other side. Make sure that you have a relationship with them because you know this game is not for long. And in a heartbeat you could be out of a job. And he said, you won't have the same connections that we did.

[00:19:40] Right? So then. It goes by so fast. I did not faceplant in front of the world. The linebackers made plays. I met Sarah Thomas. It was Sarah Thomas's first game was mine, so okay. We had a handshake before the game. And you wanna talk awkward, like they're like, you're gonna accidentally on purpose kind of run into this person for this iconic handshake because this is the first time in the history of the NFL.

[00:20:24] She was like, I just wanna do my job. I wanna do this thing. Like, why do I have to meet this woman? Like, you know, make it a big deal. Make it a big deal. And she said, we talked about this later, and she goes, Jen, when I met you, she is like the first thing that you said. You just made me laugh and I knew we were gonna be okay.

[00:21:00] We know it was you. What did you say? Right? So we get through the handshake. Both Sarah and I survive. I think, you know, I have not made the worst decision in the history of the NFL. 'cause a few of the guys were like, coach, we appreciate those words. And I'm like, they're happy. It's quiet. We're good. And then a reporter came up to me after the game and she said, you know, history was made tonight, university of Phoenix Field.

[00:21:56] And all I could think of was, well, you own your huddle then Kevin Minter, right. Lead and do it your way. And that's, that's really what it was. And but what a funny thing because you know, like getting back to the things that no one tells you. No one told me anything. Right. Like, I literally was like, well, I better just put things in the clear plastic bag 'cause you know that they don't want anybody.

[00:22:27] Lindsay: And if you, if you unpack that, it's, it's probably, tell me if I'm wrong, but like you don't. You don't necessarily wanna ask head coach Bruce Arians those questions. Of course, you could. Or you know, you could, but it's, it's that point of like, Hmm, I should know this, but you really shouldn't because no one's done it.

[00:23:04] Jen: you don't wanna be difficult. Right. Like, and it's, it we're so used to, I think when you're used to being the one, it's like there are certain places where you can just mitigate the awkward and Yes, that was, that was always me. But like, you know, Bruce Arians is such a cool dude 'cause he would just laugh about things.

[00:23:45] So I mean, I looked like I was super sagging, like all of my basketball shorts that were below my knees or wrapped up. So I looked like I had a spare tire 'cause I had to wrap 'em up like six times. Yes. So I wouldn't trip over myself. But like on the first day I put on like, you know, the fitted cap that doesn't have a place for a ponytail.

[00:24:07] Lindsay: gotta be like, and it's gotta be

[00:24:20] And so I just took it and I like chucked it and BA starts laughing. He goes. It didn't last too long, coach. And I said, it doesn't have a place for a ponytail. And the next day he made them give me like a, a hat with a ponytail. So I at least had the option, right? Like it was just, he just laughed. He was like, he goes, you don't have to wear the hat coach.

[00:24:55] Lindsay: I mean, wait. And so one of the things I love, too, is you cold-called, right? Like you really, and, and I, when I was thinking back about your story, 'cause obviously you just mentioned it, Jen is a player, she is a phenomenal player, is a medalist, like, is just all the things.

[00:25:39] That wasn't happening. I just knew I wanted to do television. Yeah. Like I thought I wanted to do maybe news or entertainment, sports. I was lucky enough to like have my journey pivot along the way in this amazing way because I did not realize how, how much I would love the world of sports covering it as a journalist.

[00:26:16] 'cause we were so old that that's how you know, you read your stuff

[00:26:25] Lindsay: So we are, we're wonderful Scorpios who are just so young and donate. That's right. We don't, he so, but the guy I remember on the other line, he was like, Oh Lindsay, it's so funny.

[00:27:00] And then they're like, oh, by the way, we need you next week in Atlanta. And I'm like, but is my senior year. I just graduated and they're, you know, that's it. All my friends are going to the beach. I'm like, see ya. I am such a believer in following your instincts and your gut and just cold calling. So tell me how you did it, because obviously you impressed somebody to get all the way to making an impression on Bruce Arians to have him invite you out to Arizona.

[00:27:44] And then we got a new head coach, Wendell Davis.

[00:27:53] Jen: Well, I would say it was painful and one of the best things I've ever done in my life. Clinton Solomon, who was a former Chicago Bears wide receiver, probably gave me some of the best advice I have ever had in my life.

[00:28:34] But if it's a matter of us versus them. Then it'll be all of us with you included. And that's a different dynamic. And so I didn't, I didn't understand that at first until he stepped up as a champion in a real way. And then it changed the whole dynamic because man, I was earning respect by being there and taking the hits, et cetera.

[00:29:29] Yeah, and spoiler alert, like when you're on Practice Squad, you still get hit and it means it matters less. So they don't care if you get hit and you get hurt, right? Like so you're taking all the hits. And so you know, those guys, like we came together and made something really special and he still talks to about it to this day, is like, it changed all of us for the better.

[00:30:12] When we got a new head coach the following season, Wendell Davis and Wendell saw how the guys responded to me that got him interested. Then he grilled me on football and what was good with the team and what wasn't, and. I had already decided I, I couldn't physically do another year. Right. Like, I mean, I'm, I'm good.

[00:30:58] and then the next day, like Wendell calls me and says, you have to coach this football team. And I instinctively said, no girls don't do that. 'cause at that time there were, yeah, at that time there were no women coaching in, in professional men's football. So there was no one I could look at and say, I could do what she's doing.

[00:31:41] And so I just instinctively said no. And thankfully coach football coaches are really stubborn. They don't like to be told no. And he said, not a lot of guys are gonna give you this opportunity. You're taking this job. And I said, no. And I hung up on him. Then he called me back and told me about myself because he had already taken the job on my behalf.

[00:32:23] A lot of weight on the shoulders, but we also don't quit. So it's really important when you see something in, in a woman or somebody who's not been represented in a certain way, that you direct them, that you show them and you directly mentor them, because we may not do it on our own. I wouldn't have, um mm-hmm.

[00:33:00] I can't teach how those guys respond to you and how they respect you. Like you're the right person for this. Thankfully we had, a pretty outstanding general manager at that time who brought me in first as a player and then okayed me being a coach, which was none other than Hall of Famer, Tim Brown. So I've had some very strong advocates throughout my career, like him, you know, like Bruce Arians.

[00:33:50] How can I support you? Yeah. 'cause you need the conversation to be pushed somewhere. And that's the power of great journalism and great conversation because it was a reporter, and I wish I knew who, 'cause I would send flowers who asked Bruce Arians because of Sarah Thomas being hired if he could ever see a woman coaching in the NFL.

[00:34:36] Like, isn't there, [00:34:37]

Lindsay: There is, in fact, well, the media has one,

[00:35:09] So he has a movie about playing in the IFL while I played in the same league. And I think I did it better. You know, they say Who wore it better? I think I did. But you know, I, I just called on behalf of my head coach because my head coach wanted to talk to their head coach 'cause he'd heard about what Bruce Arians said about a woman coaching in the NFL.

[00:35:56] Yeah. And Wes, and it was right before NFL draft though. So this is what's funny. So for those of you who have watched the movie draft day, so again, things no one tells you, like that whole thing of like, there's a life and we're gonna have like a funeral in the field and do all that stuff. That does not exist before NFL draft.

[00:36:17] Lindsay: Even sleeping, that happens.

[00:36:38] But it's, you know, it's this NFL draft timing is not good. So if you'll leave me his number, right? Like, I will have Bruce call him back. I completely thought I had gotten blown off.. I did not think, like, yeah, Bruce Arians is definitely calling back. But I was really proud of myself that I was ballsy enough to call the Cardinals.

[00:37:20] And he goes, No, I didn't. And I was like, when did you figure it out? He is like, when I met you.

[00:37:33] Jen: I mean that, oh, he's like what a, you know, Wes is like, he is so, he's such a, a great guy. And I like, I literally was like, dude, 'cause he has an eidetic memory. Like, the guy is brilliant. Like, Wes is truly brilliant. And like, I was like, I would, I would like, you know, and he was the assistant at that time, so some people don't even pay attention, but I'm like, this guy's a star, right?

[00:38:08] It was good play call. I, at that time though, thought he would, was on track to go like the GM route, but he always said he wanted to be a head coach. So I think he's well on his way.

[00:38:25] Like in getting them, and you had already had that experience, like you said, but getting the players to be on board with taking coaching from a woman.

[00:38:54] But I found out when I, when I wrote my book, I went back and talked to BA about what went into that decision and he told me something that was really quite brilliant and it's advice I would give anybody who wanted to maybe make change but didn't, didn't know he set that situation up for success beforehand.

[00:39:44] And then maybe filtered down. You know, so many times when somebody enact change, it's like, you're gonna do this because we've got a girl now, and here you go, right? Yeah, yeah. Like, here you've got a girl and they're like, we don't know if we want a girl. Right? No, he, he went to them first and he left it up to the leaders in his locker room to make that call.

[00:40:42] And I will tell you. Those guys knew everything about me before I walked in the door. They had watched my game film, Lindsay, they did their really home. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They were like, coach is a dog. Like she could tackle anybody. Like they were like, I watched your game film. Like they're like, I You really played with those guys.

[00:41:20] Where's the docu, coach? What's going on? Like, we, we haven't seen the story anywhere and, and, and we're not, we're not happy about it. Yeah. I saw Calais at the Pro Bowl and he is like, coach, I had to check everybody, you know, we got women around now, a lot of women in the league, and I have to say, I had to tell him, but I had the first, and so I think.

[00:42:07] And I think we'd had somebody get cut that he was close to, and Sea Red was upset about it, right? Like, and I was like, Hey, are you good? And he was like, he just looked at me. He was like, you really are who you say you are, aren't you? And I was like,

[00:42:41] 'cause as many times as I've like really liked vibed with guys in camp, I wait now until I see if they make the roster because I don't, I don't wanna get hurt.

[00:42:54] Jen: Yep. And I said I'm doing nobody any favors if I don't go a hundred percent. Like I would always regret it and I'm gonna, I'm gonna do everything that I have for as much time as I have.

[00:43:31] And I just kinda looked at him and I was like, oh, I didn't know that. And he is like, you didn't, did you? And I was. No, I'm not, I'm not from this world, right? Like, I'm not, I'm not fluid in some of those things that people would expect that you knew. And I think, you know, for him it was really refreshing that I was, you know, I was just there for the football.

[00:44:05] Lindsay: I think that, you know, what's fascinating about that is right, it's like you're showing them that they're seen.

[00:44:30] Jen: Yeah.

[00:44:41] But at some point, someone along the line typically is like, oh, don't talk to that. Like, especially if there's a contract negotiation. Yeah. Or if, if a guy is facing uncertainty, then all of a sudden they're not supposed to have the connection or the conversation with the coach. And I have always, I know that that's a part of the business.

[00:45:17] Yeah. Now I know that, you know, there are reasons that obviously people need representation, but I do think you can't get beyond the real people to people importance of, as you've been saying, the relationship of it. And I think that's also why what you said in the beginning of this conversation, you bring to the table that amazing connection.

[00:45:48] Jen: best feeling in the world. Seriously. Like what? Like it's the best feeling in the world. I mean, there's, first of all, a good, a good tackle doesn't hurt the tackler or the tackley, right?

[00:46:23] And, you know, we've talked about, you mentioned a little bit, and I didn't get to lean in, was like, a day in the life like my women's Yes. Training camp, right? So one of the things I believe is that tackling every woman should know how to do it. It's not a football imperative, it's a life imperative, right?

[00:46:56] Like the guys will remember it when I tell them. And the first thing I say is, I can tackle your ass and not even mess up this face. Like this makeup will not move because this part of my face should not come into contact. Now in a live game, yes. Like somebody turns and you're stu, you're gonna get that right.

[00:47:40] So I'm gonna wrap my arms around. So your booty cheek's right here. My cheek is here. I'm gonna use the bottom bubble as a shelf, right? Because that's something good to hold onto because you've gotta get low. Right? So low woman wins. This is a game of leverage. Okay, so, cheek to your cheek, l

[00:48:01] Jen: Right, bottom bubble. I'm gonna grip there and then I should be able to, the way I teach it is I should be able to pick you up off the ground and walk three steps and then put you down. Because if I do that fast, then it's just gonna be like a DDT. And those are the ooey tackles, right? Like those are the ones where you see a guy get underneath him and he kind of body slams him.

[00:48:47] Once I do this, I have no strength. I have no power. Even in doing this, you feel like, right, like the body image is bad. So you're here, boom. Cheek to cheek use the bubble lift and you wanna make sure you don't leave any of your junk in the trunk. Okay. So a lot of times when people lose power on their tackle, it's 'cause their booty's still back.

[00:49:30] So I should be like really super like this DDT and drop and that's how you become like a lights out, consistent tackler. And it's really a rugby style tackle. That's because that's awesome. I played rugby first. Yes. And it is the best feeling.

[00:49:57] It makes so much sense. How far do you think women have come? We know that now women are everywhere, but I think there's still a lot more to be done. Like I think, like I, I wanna see more women coaches out there, you know, I wanna see you there on the sidelines too. Like what, what is it that you think women need to do or what can we do more of to see more of that?

[00:50:43] I think that's very important because one of the hardest things is the connectivity, is like, you know, I tell people, they're like, well, is it harder because you're a woman? I'm like. It's not harder, per se, just because your gender is different. Like, let's take that out of the equation, but let's also be a little logical.

[00:51:24] Because they're all always gonna be question marks, and there's always a narrative beyond what we can control of, oh my gosh. Like, I mean, think about it. What if, what if Bruce Arians had been looking for a woman to hire, right? Like, I wanna hire a woman coach. Does anybody know a woman? Harder for less likely that they would have known a woman who was capable because they weren't in all of those natural networking scenarios.

[00:52:21] Yeah. So whether you talk about a publicist, never had one, a manager, never had one. An agent never had one. Because I was there before it was a thing. It became a thing, but when I did it, everybody was like, hmm. That's interesting, right? Like, and I think, you know, these are the things that we, you, we don't know what we don't know.

[00:53:15] I'm like, I would do that, but I don't know how one does that, right? Like, how does one move from one thing to another? Like if you don't have that direct guidance or mentorship. Or an advocate who's in those conversations speaking for you, then how do people know you're available? Right? Like, you can put yourself out there to an extent, but Yeah, you know, I've had, I had someone, you know, just recently say, well, do they know you're available?

[00:54:08] Like, there's, there's, you know, there's a give and take. And if you don't have advocates who can help position you for success in the ways that. The people who are making those decisions know how to hear that conversation, then you're probably not in some of those conversations.

[00:54:39] Oh, always. It's sort of like, and I can relate to what you're talking about being a woman covering sports. Yeah. 'cause there were absolutely trailblazers that I looked up to. But still, I feel like I was enough on the fray of it that it's like you're still having to figure it out. Because those trailblazers were like at really high points where I was, was not at that point.

[00:55:26] Yeah, a clear plastic bag. Right.

[00:55:53] You like, you must have all of the answers. And I kind of go, me, me, me. Nope. I got, I got more questions than answers most of the time. But like, there's this thing about people who are really capable, like, I would say this with you. Like, everything I've ever seen you do is like on point. Super professional looks gorgeous, right?

[00:56:39] I, I don't know how to do that. And they'll be like, oh, come on. You really do. You're just, you're just downplaying yourself like, no girl. I'm not, I don't know. I, I don't know. Or, or you're, you're holding back the secrets from me. I'm like, Nope. No. Pretty much being honest and sometimes honesty is too much.

[00:57:11] Jen: Yeah, and like then you don't wanna be too available 'cause then you're what, you're thirsty. Right? Right. Like, I've had people say like, she's, she promotes herself too much. And I'm like, well obviously I don't promote myself enough 'cause I don't have a job.

[00:57:21] Jen: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean it's, it's kind of the, you know, I think it's, it's all about socialization and culture, right? like…

[00:57:37] Jen: You know, as an outsider, you have the benefit of, I guess, just being fresh, right? Because you haven't been like sis, you know, beaten down by the system or whatever. But you also don't know things that probably you should, like I am quite certain that there are people who don't like me, who have never met me.

[00:58:58] I made a dollar a game, so that doesn't go very far, right? Like that was the most I made as a woman. Oh yeah. Like you, you know? So being a pro was a state of mind, but it doesn't mean that there was money attached to everything. I did. My first coaching job, I made $75 a week, and most of the time those checks were bouncing, so, mm-hmm.

[00:59:50] Like, I just had to figure it out. I think sometimes the perception of somebody. And the reality of what they're facing or what their hustle is, or what their motivation is, or what their drive is, can be very different. I mean, I remember having it was probably one of those moments, and I'm sure you've had these, like, have you ever had someone who was in a position just financially, where the rules were different from them?

[01:00:49] What I need to know is, do you love football like I love football? And it was probably to his benefit that he was not in front of my face because I may have, I may have demonstrated that cheek to cheek kept wrap and drop, and it probably would've been the best tackle of my life. But I remember tears coming to my eyes.

[01:01:55] Love the game that much. This isn't a hypothetical. This is real life, and I certainly hope that no woman who went through what I did ever has to hear you ask that question. And I was so broken in that moment because I thought he'd come so much further than that. But that's, that's the perception versus the reality.

[01:02:55] Women are paid to play. So our path, because of that, means that we have had to sacrifice so much that everything we do is driven by the love of the game and finding ways to afford to stay in the game. So I think with that, there's such a, you know, like even going back to the self-promotion thing, like again, what, what would you ask me to do?

[01:04:06] Lindsay: Well, you have, you continue to blaze the map and the trail, and I mean, that's true. And you do not only on the field with coaching, with playing, but I mean, you are such an advocate, and I, I love what you're doing with the day in the life, and I know people heard you talk about it, but you are literally changing the lives of women, which is great.

[01:04:52] And it was like we had to interact and learn all the things about the equipment staff. And like, once you know that, and once you also understand positions and players, then you really become a fan, 'cause then you can make your decisions and figure out who you're gonna follow. That's awesome. But also, like you were just down at the Super Bowl and you were doing the activation, trying to champion other amazing women in sports.

[01:05:20] Jen: Oh, let's see. Well, I have to give a shout-out to my sidekick. I have a rescue dog. I'm a big believer in rescues. She rescued me, right? And I think she's a pit chihuahua mix.

[01:06:08] So I want to figure out how to get that out there. But with that credit, I do have a bestselling book in FS and spiders. Okay. Right. Bugs and spiders never would've gotten that one. Where can people get your book? So there are still three or four, maybe on Amazon. But the rest of them will hopefully come out.

[01:06:52] And then, number three, I am a really good pickleball player, so, oh, just played in, I love it. Jake Plummer's celebrity Pickleball Tournament last weekend, or, well, two weekends ago. But I am, I'm a big-time pickleball player, so I am always up and, you know, probably. Not very good. You know, you gotta stay outta the kitchen in pickleball.

[01:07:30] Lindsay: I love it. Okay. Well, the last time I saw you in person was the Indy 500 when we were both there, talking about e.l.f. Cosmetics which was so awesome.

[01:08:03] And then look at Revlon with Ilona Maher and what they've done there. And then, I think it was L'Oreal who came in and did a commercial with the hockey coach and the NHL. Like, I just love seeing that we're starting to realize that you can be beautiful and a beast, right? Like it doesn't have to be, this one or the other.

[01:08:57] their influences on places that are not just about influencers, but are truly influential from a cultural standpoint. Because when we do that, and we know, you know, Dove's been doing some great work on how many girls drop out of sports because of body consciousness, right? Yes. And we wanna show them that you can be beautiful and badass and that your body area is not just an issue, it's not just, it's not an accessory to someone else's success, right?

[01:10:02] Lindsay: I agree. It's like letting or finally embracing that women should be seen for all of who they are and embracing that part of it too, and thinking about how, as a man getting ready to go out there and play a game, they have certain things that make them feel strength and confidence, and power. And for women, it's embracing that piece of it.

[01:10:25] Jen: I always, I always played in my pigtail braids and, my eyeliner and mascara because one of the things I realized early on in my career is one of the things that pissed people off is that I was cute and small. I was never gonna outdo anybody, but ooh, I could mess with them.

[01:10:59] Lindsay: Love it. Jen Welter, you're the best. Thank you so much.

[01:11:05] Lindsay: I also love Jen's story of really figuring out not only the locker room logistics, but getting there in the first place.

[01:11:34] And I also really know that the players she impacted are better now because of their experience with her. So can't wait to see what Jen Welter does next. Thank you so much for joining us, Jen, and thank you for being here for Things No One Tells You. Don't forget a please rate and review, subscribe wherever you get your podcast.

[01:12:08] Listeners, we would love to grow this community. We are so grateful that you're a part of it. See you next time.