Episode overview

What if the thing holding your business back is not your product, but the conversation you keep avoiding? In this episode, recorded ahead of The Influencers 2026, Anthony Perl sits down with Aaron Smith and Andrew Cominos, the two sales operators behind the new membership Sell Mates. They call themselves your professional idiots, and they are on a mission to change how business owners feel about selling. Their definition is refreshingly simple: sales is a conversation with a pathway and an outcome. The problem, they say, is not that people cannot sell. It is that nobody wants to be a salesperson.

Key talking points

• Why they describe themselves as your professional idiots, and why that honesty is the whole brand
• Sales as a conversation with a pathway and an outcome, and why people fear being a salesperson more than they fear selling
• The $5,000 day problem: paying to sit in a room and spending half of it being upsold to the next package
• The Sell Mates promise: no pitch, no upsell, and a doing session rather than a talk about doing session
• Go get a duck: why action beats waiting for every duck to line up in a row
• Consistency over epic: fixing the feast and famine cycle instead of chasing the million dollar month
• Why 96% of small businesses fail in their first ten years, and what that says about who is advising them
• Business can be lonely and sales can be hard, and why community is the fix for both

About Aaron Smith and Andrew Cominos

Aaron Smith and Andrew Cominos are the founders of Sell Mates, a new membership built for business owners who are good at what they do but winging the selling. Aaron is the founder of Morphability, a growth consultancy, and he has spent decades leading sales for technology businesses across Australia and New Zealand. Andrew is the founder of Project Remarkable, a men's performance coaching practice, and he learned sales the hard way, knocking on strangers' doors before training around 500 staff at Godfreys and then building his own sales business. They met at an event and spent two hours talking, and they have been building together ever since. Sell Mates is a sponsor of The Influencers 2026, and their founding event runs in Sydney on Tuesday 1 December 2026.

The Influencers 2026

The Influencers 2026 is one morning in Sydney: Wednesday 7 October 2026, 8.30am to 12.00pm, Northside Conference Centre, Crows Nest. The theme is there's more than one way to become influential, explored through five lenses: media, communication, marketing, leadership and business. Tickets and group bookings are available via influencers2026.com.au.

Links

• Listen to the episode: https://youtu.be/1XGuiHe4Mvw
• The Influencers 2026: influencers2026.com.au
• Sell Mates: sellmates.com.au
• Podcasts Done For You: PodcastsDoneForYou.com.au

Hashtags

#Sales #BusinessGrowth #SmallBusiness #TheInfluencers2026 #SydneyEvents #Leadership

Anthony Perl: Influences

Conversation, and this is one with

two self-confessed professional idiots,

Aaron Smith and Andrew Kominos

from Sellmates, spelt with an S,

influencing how businesses sell.

Now we get into what holds people

back and how to move forward.

Their brand is built on fun

and directness.

They're unashamedly themselves, so

just listen in.

Apologies for the language.

They are the perfect fit as sponsors

of the Influencers 2026, and along the

way, they show the power of podcasting

by not selling, just demonstrating the

influence you can have by being you.

So let's become influential.

All right.

Well, we're going to get underway with

a special episode of our Podcast Done

For You show and the Influencers

sub-special, and underneath that,

we're gonna talk to two people who

are cellmates.

Uh, that's the best way to describe

the two of you.

Uh, Aaron and Andrew, welcome

to the podcast.

Aaron & Andrew: Thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

Well, I suppose we've

got to get underway by letting you

introduce yourselves to the audience.

The way I like to do it is to put

it in the context of saying, well,

the Influencers is all about how

you want people to perceive you.

So with that in mind, what

is it that you will emphasize

in wanting to introduce yourselves

to the audience?

So who's gonna kick off?

Aaron & Andrew: We're your

professional idiots.

So, yeah I love that.

That's exactly right.

Professional.

Yeah, no, can't say that one.

There's offensive, and then there's

like- Probably shouldn't

… probably shouldn't.

Yeah, no, we are, we are definitely your

professional idiot, and that is the best

way to sum us up.

Uh, what, what are you though, mate?

Like, we, we aren't actually one human

being- No, we're not … surprisingly.

You, you are the, you are one

half of Something to Say Sunday.

Um, the, the short answer here is we,

we are, we- You are … have been, I, I am

a person who's been in, in and around

sales for donkey's years, from I think

12 and 13, walking around the streets,

uh, you know, convincing people

to let me wash their cars or mow lawns

or whatever the hell it was at that time.

I'm very much out there talking

to people.

I love watching people do

different things.

And that's awkward too, just I love

watching the evolution of people

as they go through their sales journey

and their business growth journey.

Um, I run a business currently, uh,

that walks into businesses and

help them get out of their own way

effectively and, and enable their

success, build growth and sales

engines, and I, I just love this shit.

This is one of the greatest

things that you could possibly do.

Um, and, and I, I know there are a

percentage of people who just hate it,

but, but I f- I fucking love it.

They're wrong.

They're wrong.

They are wrong.

They need to love it.

They should.

They're incorrect in life.

They are incorrect in life.

That's me in a nutshell.

Uh, I'm, uh, Andrew.

I'm Darren.

I'm Darren.

That's it.

Uh, so I'm, uh… So I've been in

sales for-- since I was eighteen.

I've, you know, I've been, you know, the

national trainer, director of sales,

all the thing for multinationals, and

then I came into small business.

Wound up thirty-six kilos overweight in

a toxic relationship with myself, my

business, and, uh, my, my wife, uh,

well, my fiancée at the time.

Uh, and then, um, I, uh, split

up with that person, and then

I sold my business at the time.

I went on my own little, what I

used to call a healing journey,

uh, but now a congruency journey.

Uh, and I became, uh, I put the

thousands of hours of personal

development I had done in my life

into practice, and I became a

performance coach for, um, high-level

men in business, and so I've been doing

that for a while.

And then the, the, in the world, the

universe, whatever you wanna call it,

just kept putting like sales work

and fractional sales work just in

front of me, just kept slapping me

in the face with it, no matter how

much I avoided it.

And, um, I just realized that

there was something here that needed

to be done for other people.

And my thing is just how do I empower,

or how do I… I just wanna fucking

bring joy to people.

Actually, is that… It's like

I was gonna say, how people be

their best self.

But actually, all I want is just to

bring joy to people.

All right.

And I think there's a lot of, in the

world right now, there's a lot of

necessa- necessity for joy comes from

not just knowing how to bring joy

to yourself, but more importantly

also, not more importantly, but

also knowing how to generate the

life you actually truly want.

Yeah.

And people don't realize that that

comes from sales.

I mean, I was saying last night, uh, who

was I saying it to?

You know, I've built ev- I've built

multiple businesses at this point, and

every single time in multiple different

industries, service, product,

doesn't matter.

Every time I've gone from zero to

six, multiple six figures in less

than twelve months.

Not because I'm so amazing, just

because, you know, like Seth

Godin says, um-

Everyone booking to get their

ducks in a row.

I just go get a fucking duck.

The way I look at it is I'm not

saying that from an ego point of view

like I'm amazing.

I'm saying that like I'm retarded,

so if I can do it, you should

be able to do it.

You know what I mean?

So s- so for me, um, I just became

a, a… My thing is performance and, uh,

you know, being your best self at the

highest level, but also, uh, selling

and just bringing joy to people.

So I run a couple of companies, Project

Remarkable, um, uh, and, uh, Remarkable

Rooms, which connect-- which

is a high-level connection,

uh, agency.

Those place thing-- Those two

businesses are very, very invite only.

And so the brilliant thing about what

we're gonna talk about, which is

SellMates, which you mentioned before,

is it's just mates.

It's for everyone.

It's for everyone.

It's for literally everyone and

everyone.

Bo-both in our business, and

my, my business Morphability is

very much the same.

It-- There are only a… You know,

you-you're at a certain maturity

level or at a certain size scale

or whatever, where you can afford

our services.

It's not designed as a… You know, you

need to invest in the time and effort

that we've spent time and effort

learning through our craft, and that

has an appropriate price tag.

Mm-hmm.

SellMates does too.

And I think this is the bit that we-

Oh, I'm so excited … identified was

that the gap in the market was that

if you're starting out, there's no

real help for you that doesn't result

in other dickheads around the room

trying to sell you shit for the entire

day that you're standing with them.

And that was the start of this

premise, was how do we give you

as much as we can where we don't just

talk at you for the day, but we

actually get you to write it and do it.

It's a doing session.

It's not a talk about doing session.

The whole idea, it's the whole

premise of, um-

How do you pay a remarkably small

of- A no-brainer fee or something

to work out

a no, a no-brainer amount of money-

Yeah … to actually get shit done and

not be upsold to the titanium, platinum,

phoenix package with extra- Extra

bells and whistles.

Uh, yeah … like whatever the

bloody thing is.

Yeah.

Right?

Because I mean, I actually saw a post

on social media, and we're, we're doing

that whole 15-minute introduction thing

like you mentioned.

Yeah.

And, um, there was, uh, it was

about like, it was like, like remember

the whole, the whole, um, uh, the,

yes, last night, literally last night

I commented on a, on a, uh, a post.

Someone had been to a thing for, paid,

what was it $1,650 or something to

go to a full day, a two-day event,

and they spent a quarter to half of

the time literally selling to them the

next program, which is what they do.

You spend $5,000, they sell you

the 15,000.

You spend 15,000, they sell you the

30 and 40,000.

And so one of the great things this

is about is get everyone in a room,

get shit done, and know that the only

person that's gonna try and sell you

something is the bloody sponsor,

because, well, they paid for the room.

Yeah, they paid for the room.

So that's fair.

So that's fair.

Yeah.

Love it.

I love it.

It's, it's, it's interesting watching

the dynamic of the two of you.

So, so just how did that happen?

How did you, how did the two of you

find each other in the first place?

Aaron & Andrew: Okay.

So-

I don't know.

It's a-- Tell me, who is it?

It's my story.

This is a popcorn run.

I feel like this is actually my

story to tell.

It's your story.

So, um, how do I frame this

the right way?

I went to a-- Let's just call it, I

went to, uh, an event called Cars,

Watches, Legacy.

Yes.

Uh, and, uh, Aaron happened

to be there.

When I met Aaron, uh, we spent the

next two hours just bromancing out.

It was literally like just hard

bromancing.

Like it was very sensual.

Uh, it was, uh, uh… But anyway,

uh, we were just talking shit for

the next two hours.

Yeah.

Mainly about people.

Uh, no, uh, but we were just talking

shit for, um, for the next two

hours, just making, having laughs.

And then we realized we actually have

very, very similar life experiences,

not just in sales, but also just

in pro-personal life- Yeah

… experiences.

And so we were just talking about that

for hours on end.

Uh, and then, um, we sort of just

kept in touch.

He lives in Sydney, I live in Brisbane.

You know, we ended up having Yochi,

uh, was it perhaps a week or something?

Yeah.

Or was it a month later?

Yeah, a month later, whatever.

And then we had deep chats there, and

then, uh, we sort of just kept in touch.

And then, um, how it actually happened

was I was going through a business

partner split at the, at the time,

and, um, and I was developing

something new, and the sales stuff was

really punching me.

And I'm like, I don't know what

happened, like in the moment,

I just had this infant, like

infant idea, right?

It was very infantile.

There was nothing created around it.

It was just like, oh my God, what if?

I, I just… I don't know if you've

ever experienced the moment you

know who you need to talk to about

a certain thing.

Like you just know in your body, in

your soul, like this is the person

I need to talk to about this.

And I'd just gone through a business

partner split, so it made no sense

to go to someone else and go like,

"Hey, I'm thinking about…" You know?

And so, but I, I, I talked to Aaron.

I literally, I think I messaged or

I think we got on the phone the next

day or something.

Yeah.

Or that day.

Yeah.

I think it was either that day.

And I told Aaron, and then we just

sat there for a couple hours just

building this idea out and, um, I

was like, "Well, I suppose I have to

go into business with someone now

because like I didn't create the

idea myself." Uh, so you know, I kind of

fucked myself there.

Um, no, like… No, but like, uh,

but that was… I mean, do you--

Was that the same, pretty much the same

experience for you?

I see that way.

That's what, that's what it was for

me, is like just I knew Aaron was

the guy, and I just was like- And

then here we are.

And for me, I'd, in that conversation,

I, you know, even just talking to

Andrew, I, I knew that at some point

in time there was something that we

would do together.

'Cause it, it's just, particularly

with what he was doing with, with,

with the business back then, it

was a, it was a, it was just

done differently.

Mm. Everyone does the same

shit packaged differently.

And, and Andrew had, was onto

something that was really good, and I

went, "Well, hey, how do we, how do

we play together in that area?"

And that certainly, um,

seeded that idea.

I think my, my original thought

was, was a little more narrow, and we

broadened that out to being what it is

today in Sellmates, and I, and

that's, you know, that's been fun.

I like, you know, it's, it's been a

very quick-moving object, much to

the, uh, upset of, of, you know, of

my, my, my wife sat there, um, two

days ago and on the couch, and they're,

you know, just sitting, debriefing

the day, and was like, "Oh my God,

this thing is just going at a million

miles an hour."

I'm like, "You know, really?" I'm

like, "Well," and that's kind of okay.

Like, you know, I've had a honeymoon in

the middle of it.

We've done a bunch of things,

playing catch up, rah, rah, rah.

But like, why fuck around?

Like, just get in, get it done.

Get, get on with it.

Like, you've got a fucking great

idea, and it's gonna work, and it's gonna

make a difference to people.

Then just fucking do it.

Well- You know, that's it.

Damn.

F too.

Let's fucking go home.

Uh, and by the way,

I should point out to everyone

that's listening in, if they haven't

cottoned onto it already, Sellmates

is with an S, right?

For s- For sales.

For sales.

Just, you know, there's a… I, I

th- it's a lovely play on words, by

the way, uh, you know, for anyone-

Aaron & Andrew: Well, that was our

whole idea, right, is learning to

sell, but also, you know, being stuck

in there with your mates- Oh, 100%

and you're in, you're in business.

And I think it's funny 'cause, um,

there's-- What the fuck is that?

So, um, um, sorry.

There's photos in front of me

and someone's sitting there like

Right?

And I'm just like, I have no idea what's

happening here.

Um, anyway, uh, but Sell Mates is

the idea that you-- it's not just sales.

You're in there with your mates, and we,

we're leaning pretty hard into the mates

thing because one of the things I've been

saying lately is, you know, business

can be lonely, sales can be hard-

Yeah … right?

We fix both.

You know what I mean?

Um, you know, so we give you a, a

community of people that are just there

to have a really good time- Yeah

and also, and also do business

and buy from you.

Literally buy from you.

And so, and that we encourage that.

It's like, dude, people

are in the room.

Go buy some shit and go sell some shit.

Not this like you walk in the room,

and they're like, "We don't sell

in this room." We do, right?

You have fucking eyes.

Absolutely.

Like, go get a duck.

There's two hundred ducks in this room.

Go find one, right?

Make it your duck, right?

Uh, anyway, so there's that.

But then I think the other thing

is, um, the mates element is just good

humans, you know.

Like, one of the things… I, I don't

want to tell you how we're going to

do it, but one of the things we're

toying with is a way of getting people

to leave their wanker at the door.

Yes.

Do you know what I mean?

As you walk in, leave your wanker

at the door, right?

Because we don't want it

in this room.

You know what I mean?

This is a room of good humans, good

people doing good things and, and, and

change, and changing the environment.

So I think, um, it's leaning into that a-

that mates element and just creating…

I mean, I'll just fucking come

out and say it.

I want to do two for me, right?

And I want to know your two

things, actually.

But for me, my two things are this.

I want every other sales str- coach

or big coaching firm to fucking

hate me, right?

You know, I want them to, I want them

to be like, "Why are they doing this?

Oh my God, it's so ridiculous.

Nee, nee, nee." Like, fucking do it.

Don't care, right?

And the second thing, um, the

second thing I want to do is, um,

change the, the failure rate, right?

There's nine- ninety-six percent

of small businesses fail in the first

ten years, right?

And I want that, I want that- Lower

… lower, right?

And I, I, and I know that we can

do that, right?

Um, and I think that's the, the

big thing for me is like, you know,

if, if the, the brand is about, you

know, disrupting the crap out of the

industry and the market and the, the

business and sales coaching market

and just… And if, and if everyone

hates that, well, then that sounds

like a you problem.

Correct.

I think it's-- My, my two would be

fairly similar, and I know it's a

bit of a cop-out, but at the end

of the day- Mm. I think you're right.

The market is there for it.

It-- There's a, there's a lot of

crap in the market right now that

just floats around there, and it, and

a lot of it is all talk and no action.

Mm. And I think that's the

biggest thing.

I mean, even in my, uh, my consulting

firm, there's a… The get shit

done sessions, we put them into

everyone's calendar every single week

because they're… You just need time

to get shit done in your day, and

you need to get out of your own way

to go and do that.

Mm.

And so for me, that's the, this

is the action time.

This is the ability for us to actually

get people out of their own way, get

them out of their distraction town

of the office and wherever it is

they might be doing the things they

probably know they shouldn't be doing,

and actually get them doing things.

I think a lot of mine is actually,

um, the idea of overcoming, like for

a lot of people, I'm noticing one of the

big keys, um, like I like the way you

said it, is you came home and there's

all this stuff to do, and then you and

Kim are like sitting on the couch, and

you're, you're like, she's like, "I feel

like this went a mile a minute."

Right?

"I feel like this headed this way and

this, that, and the other." It's like,

what is happening?

It's like, because Andrew has no fear.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, I don't… I'm not, I'm not

here to fuck around.

I'm not here to… I don't need to

worry about whether, you know, oh, are

we gonna fail?

Is this gonna work?

Am I gonna spend that five

thousand dollars?

Am I gonna do this?

I'm just like, "Just go." Right?

And the moment you just go,

like- Give, give yourself permission

to do that.

Exactly right.

Give yourself permission to fail.

You know what I mean?

And so, like, it's just no fear.

Things can-- Like, your capacity

as a human is actually infinite.

Yes.

Right?

It just depends on whether you

live in emotional expansiveness or

emotional pressure.

Your logic capacity is freaking- Huge

… boundless, right?

It's boundless.

The problem is not whether you can

handle the stuff.

The problem is what's the

emotional pressure or emotional

expansiveness you put on yourself?

Yeah, that's the difference.

And so I think the, the answer is part

of this is about, you know, not just,

um, the get shit done, it's the like,

how do we remove the fear so you can

get the shit done.

Correct.

Do you know what I mean?

And so at the start of all of

the day, then seeded throughout

everything, as you can probably

imagine, there's gonna be a very

big elements of performance.

Like how do you perform?

How do you overcome fear?

How do you, how do you drive forward?

So there'll be a massive mindset

element, uh, but it'll literally be

about, you know, generating big

amounts of sales.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Consistent sales.

Not… I don't need you to be

a billionaire.

Correct.

What I need you to be is fucking

consistent, so you're not going

into the feast and famine.

Correct.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

I'd prefer not, yeah, instead of the

most sales teams in my experience have

the ups, downs, you know, big trough,

peaks and troughs.

Should we let, should we let

the podcast host actually

say something?

We probably should.

Pause.

Anthony Perl: Just every now

and then I'll just ju- just jump

Aaron & Andrew: in.

Anthony Perl: I love it.

We like the triple, triple A here.

I'm just like that extra A

that's jumping on the end here.

Uh, big A. That's right.

Yeah.

Well, d- so, so tell me, um, you know,

how do you… Well, look, no, let's

just scrap that.

Let's, I wanna know what the biggest

amount of BS is that you guys see that

really pisses you off, that gets in

the way of people

Aaron & Andrew: I'll, I'll just be,

I'll just be today.

I feel like, I feel like you'll be nicer

around because- From an industry

standpoint, there's, there's a lot of

talk and no action.

There are way too many people charging

a shitload of money individually to

businesses that can't necessarily

afford it- Mm … and taking

their time to enable an upsell.

And I appreciate the capitalist

mindset to that.

However, there is a way that everyone

can win, and all boats can rise

with the tide.

And I think your, your commentary

about reducing the failure rate's

a critical one.

If ninety-six percent of

businesses fail in the first ten

years of operation, we're doing

something wrong.

Mm. Or, or whoever is surrounding

them, advising them, guiding them,

talking to them, communicating with

them, they're doing something wrong.

And so for me, the ability for us

to come in there at a no-brainer

price tag, just go, "Please stop

listening to all the other dickheads who

are highly capable dickheads, but

they're, they're, they're not enabling

your success in the right way.

This is no bullshit.

It's no frills.

You are literally coming here to

build and execute on your plan.

And then we'll keep you in check

on the way through because that's how

we all grow and develop." We were

the dickheads.

But that's, it's, I love- Accountability

… there's an accountability piece

because I can as- we, we talk about

this all the time in both with my, with

our kids and also in, in, in our, our

work partnerships.

I can, I can either feed you once, or

I can teach you to fish and feed you

for a lifetime.

And that part for me is what this

community is about.

We're here to teach you how to fish.

I think for me, the thing that,

mm. Wait for the… Are you ready?

You've, you've, you've prepped

for this.

Have you got it?

The thing that, the thing that drives

me probably the most mental is that.

Uh, no, the thing that drives me the

most mental is, uh-

I think Aaron's nailed That there's

a lot of people that are going

in one-on-one in the business.

But I think the thing that gets

me is, is what I said before about

the, the five thousand dollar day.

You're in a room with two hundred

or three hundred or five hundred or

a thousand other people, and a highly

intelligent business person, highly

intelligent, and a highly capable human

is on the stage.

And what they're, what they're

thinking about-- And don't me wrong,

I'm not saying we're thinking

about anything different, right?

But what they're thinking about is,

"How do I make a, you know, a multi,

multi-million dollar business? How do

we generate as much as we can? How do

we impact as much people as we can?"

Right?

"But more importantly, you've

spent five thousand dollars. How do I

get you into the fifteen thousand

dollar package and generate more

profit?" This, that, and the other.

Um, and that's great, but they

didn't come there, they didn't

spend their, very often for these

people, their last five thousand

dollars- Yes.

Right … to go get a loan, to pay,

do your fifteen thousand dollar

program, which they'll do because

you sell them the, the big idea.

Yes.

Right?

They spent their five thousand

dollars to come and get shit done, so

they could hopefully go home and feed

their family.

So they could hopefully go home

and, uh, and, you know, be the man

that brings home, you know, uh, that

builds the business that, you know,

their wife is now proud of them.

They, they, you know, they, they do

it so they can, so that it can be the

wife that goes home to support the, the

husband that, you know, has been in

an accident, and now she does the

thing 'cause she was a mom first.

Or maybe she's try, or maybe she's

the, the beautiful, the, the, the woman

that's like, you know, building the

dream she always had and, and, you

know, supporting her family and

supporting this, that, and the other.

I mean, it doesn't matter which way

it goes, but what matters is these

people are all people that have

dreams and values in their own life.

Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

And the thing is, you take that twenty

thousand dollars from them, they

could have put that twenty thousand

dollars into some marketing, into

building a website, into whatever the

thing is, right?

You-- But they nee- they can't do

any of that stuff until they've--

And some of them know this, until

they do their sales stuff first, right?

Right.

Because you need to go get

a fucking duck.

You need to know what your

message is.

You need to know what your pattern

of action is.

You need to know what your, um,

what your questions you need to ask,

the problems you need to solve, how

to say the thing you need to say,

what is actually gonna get people

to take action with your product.

You know, there, there's all those,

those, those things that you need.

Um, they, and people know they need that.

And so the idea here is like, what

pisses me off is like, how dare you

take someone's last twenty thousand

dollars because you think, right,

the, you know, be- because you,

you're just caring about the growth of

your own business, and you're so

caught up in your own narcissistic

self-fucking image- Right

that you think that you can, um, put-

Oh, felt really good … uh, but

you can put, you can put two hundred

people in a room And know that, you know,

that every one of those is gonna get

amazing results, and they're gonna make

millions of dollars.

Yes, the 10% of your people do.

Correct.

And, and I'm not saying that we're

gonna be different, but at least

we only charged you a thousand

fucking dollars.

Correct.

Do you know what I mean?

Not, not 20.

Right?

At least we just didn't upsell you.

You know, at least we gave you the,

the metrics for a reasonable price

tag that doesn't ruin your life

at the same time.

So the, the part of me is that, is

one of the things.

And the other thing, the other

part of me is, is, um, teaching people

how to sell is an irrelevant concept

if they don't have a strategy

or a process.

Correct.

Right?

And a lot of people are

teaching to sell.

Uh, and actually my favorite one, my

biggest most is if I see another fucking

business coach te- try and be- try

and teach people to sell, I'm like,

"Dude, you don't know how to sell.

You are a business strategist and a

business coach. And yes, you built your

business 'cause you had really,

really good things, and maybe you know

how to physically sell your stuff

because you've learnt how to sell."

But there's a difference between

knowing how to sell, right, and

understanding buying psychology

and understanding sales psychology

and understanding, uh, how to

strategically build sales processes and

sales strategies.

And so what we wanna-- what I

wanna do, and what we wanna do is

give a small, tiny little business a

sales department that they can…

Like, the foundation of a

sales department that they can

launch off, right?

Because if you put a sa- I, and I've seen

teams do it, right?

You put a, a team of people, um,

you put… Sorry.

The, the, uh, a bigger business,

well, not bigger, like a

million-dollar business or

two-million-dollar business will

hire their first salesperson.

Yeah.

And they'll just drop them in, and

they go, "He's been a salesperson for

20 years. He'll crush it." It's

like, actually, no.

What he's gonna do is run around

like a hot mess 'cause he's a

fucking salesperson.

He's good at soft skills.

What he needs is a foundation, a

process, and a strategy, and a set

of actions that you go, "Go do this,"

and he goes, "Okay."

And then he goes and does it and puts

his little flavor on it, and suddenly,

boom, he gets results, and he gets

consistent results.

And so, um, yeah, it pisses me off

when people step out on their own.

It pisses me off when people charge

people way too much money, uh, for

For no reason, you know?

And, and both Aaron and I have really

expensive products that we both

charge, by the way.

Can we point that out?

There, there is- The difference

is- … a time and a place for that.

Yeah, there is a time and a

place for that.

We both have that, and we charge it to

the right people, and that's why both

of what we do is very invite-only.

Mm-hmm.

And you can generate really exceptional

success doing that.

You don't need to destroy half the

fucking population just so you can feed

your ego, be on the fucking front stage

of, you know, every magazine on the

planet and have and run this 3,000 or

10,000-person event and go, "Look at me

charging everybody $20,000." And, you

know, like Yeah.

Like I said, anyway, I told

you, I, that's what I was like.

You got on the roll.

It's good.

It was good to watch.

That's my story.

It's a good story.

So let me… Uh, two,

two more questions I want to ask you

both before we, before we finish up.

Now, one-

Aaron & Andrew: Well, I'm done

being, being released.

Anthony Perl: Because otherwise

we're gonna be, we're gonna be

here for hours.

We're gonna talk, we're gonna talk

about having a different podcast

altogether after we finish this one.

But we-- But let me ask you this.

The word sales, is that one of

the turn offs for a lot of people?

Is that what just makes people just

stop and go, "Eh?" I know I'm from, like,

from a marketing background, right?

So the idea of sales was always jarring.

And one day someone said to me, "Oh,

you've got to have a sales conversation."

And I suddenly went, what if I just

focused on the word conversation instead

of the word sales?

And suddenly all the fear went out the

window because, you know, just thinking

about that whole concept of sales and

selling to people, like, you know,

it, it can jar.

And you know, some, some people,

clearly to you guys, it comes very

naturally, but it doesn't to everyone.

Aaron & Andrew: I think that's half

the challenge.

Like, yes, sales can be a dirty word.

It's certainly in, in the industry that

I cut my teeth in, in terms of building

things up in, in IT managed services.

Everyone hated salespeople.

It was like, "Oh my God, you can't

have a salesperson. You can't have them

talking to people."

Well, hang on.

It depends on the conversation

they're having.

It depends on how they've

been enabled.

It depends on how your business

encourages them to work.

Sales isn't about shoving square pegs

through round holes.

It's about uncovering and

identifying opportunities.

It's about having, to your point, the

art of conversation.

And, you know, I appreciate

the marketing theory and, you

know, bringing out the crayons.

But, um, from a sales perspective,

it is… There's an art to it, but

it doesn't have to be impossible

for everyone.

Can I simplify it?

Hand, bro.

I've said it to you before, but I

think you'll love this, is I, I, I

was finding a way to teach my clients,

when I was running The Results Guys,

to teach them what sales really is in

the simplest format.

Yep.

And I came up with this line.

Excellent.

And they're like, "What is sales?"

It's conversation with a pathway

and an outcome.

Correct.

That's what it is.

I feel like- That's what selling is, is

like learn how to have a conversation

that leads a party to a, to an outcome.

Correct.

Right?

That's it.

A, a positive outcome for them.

It's like your job is to help people

make the decision that is right for

them, even though that they don't have

enough knowledge to know what's

right for them.

Correct.

Right?

It's, it's like, um, I think sales

is a- People are terrified of sales.

Yeah.

People are terrified of selling.

But I actually think what tends

to happen- They're also terrified

of salespeople

Yeah, I think that's the bigger one.

Yeah.

Um, it's actually funny because,

um, since you mentioned that, is

selling is not what they're afraid of.

No.

Sales is not what they're afraid of.

They're afraid of being a salesperson.

And being tagged with it forever.

Right.

Yeah.

People don't want to be a

salesperson, right?

'Cause people are like, "Oh my God."

But it's funny because when, how

many pe- how many salespeople have

you met in your life that you're

like, "That guy was really good.

He was really cool.

He nailed it.

Oh, I'm so happy," you know?

Right.

You just don't want to be a

shitty salesperson.

That's what you don't want to be.

Correct.

Right?

But you're happy with the good one.

So I think, uh, the answer is,

um, for a lot of them, is I think

a lot of people know they need

to sell and they need sales, right?

They're just afraid of it.

And so if we can give them a space to

come where they can feel like there's

good people, there's good fun, because

seriously, look at our brand and look

at the way we handle this interview.

We don't care.

We're just, we're just… This is why

we're so excited about Sellmate.

So we know- And I'm just gonna

put it out there.

I meant to say it before when I

said the two, the two things, it was

one of the two, but then I used

another one 'cause I forgot, 'cause,

you know, ADHD.

Uh, um, the, the thing for me, and

I'll just throw it out there and

I don't care, make everyone in the--

all the sales coaches in the

industry haters.

And number two, right?

Really?

Be the biggest sales community on the

face of the earth.

Right?

Um, like, just bring, bring

everyone together.

Yeah.

And in a way that they're like, "You

gotta be a part of Selmates." Yeah.

Like, if you're not a Selmate- The

fuck are you doing?

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And just make it so easy to be a

part of it, you know what I mean?

Just give a place for people to

belong, because I think that's

what people don't realize.

If you've been in sales, and everyone

who's been in sales will understand what

I've said, when you are in a sales team,

a re- a good sales team, you truly feel

like you belong.

Right.

There's a sense of camaraderie- Yes

…and teamwork, and it's like

you're going to war together.

You know what I mean?

It's so beautiful.

Like, and, and you know, it's really

funny 'cause I feel that around me in

business right now.

I've got some amazing people

like Russell Pearson, like Steve

Mack, like you.

Uh, like, and, and people like around,

it just make me feel like we're going

to war together.

Yep.

You know what I mean?

And it's just so beautiful.

So I just, I, I want that for everyone.

I think the lack of, like everyone's

trying to run, everyone's trying

to run their own race, and I don't

think they need to.

I don't think they have to.

I mean, whether, which, you know,

however you go and find people

to play with and people to work with,

and people that make you better

at what you do, that's what we're

trying to build.

Like a group full of people who just

lift each other up.

Our, our, our job collectively is to

just get you excited about sales and get

you excited about selling, and get

you excited about having conversations

with people that lead to the outcomes

that both they and you want.

Anthony Perl: Ideally.

Anyone who's not got excited about

sales from having listened to the two

of you for the last, uh, half hour- …is

kidding themselves.

Uh, now I got one final question I

need to ask both of you, is who

are your greatest influencers?

Aaron & Andrew: Oh.

It's a good one.

It's a good question.

I know the answer to that pretty much.

You start, Gav.

Uh, uh, Tony Robbins would

definitely be my greatest influence.

Like, just as much as, um, you

know, say what you will, but, you

know, I think I've done thousands of

hours of personal development and,

and a lot of it started with him.

You know what I mean?

He's just… Like, I think, I think

people say, can talk about all

the greatest minds in history, but I

think in the last hundred years, he's

probably the person that's influenced

the world the most.

Yeah.

Because all the people that you,

that you see that he, that have

influenced the world the most,

guess who they got influenced by?

Very often they'll, they'll reference

Tony in a lot of their stuff.

Yeah.

Oprah, you know, uh, Akon, the

presidents of the United States,

several of them, you know what I mean?

It's just ridiculous.

So Tony Robbins has been a massive

one for me.

The other one is Brendon Burchard.

Absolute machine, um, of

a human being.

He's one of the foremost

performance coaches on the planet.

Uh, if you haven't read his books, you

should definitely go read them

Hmm.

I, I'm probably a little more, more

insular in the way actually that

I've approached life from sales.

It's been largely self-started.

I was probably not quite as out there

in terms of going, and I haven't done

thousands of hours of sales training.

No, no, no, I didn't say sales training.

I said personal development.

Personal development.

Sorry.

I'm not sales training.

Just different.

Different.

Um, and yeah, so for me, I, I'm

probably more insular and more

focused on them.

More recently, I'm certainly jumping on

the Lencioni train.

Um, Patrick Lencioni and what

he's done from a business structure

and awkwardness and conversations

and, you know, the, you know, uh,

five dysfunctions of a team and that

sort of thing.

I-- That for me speaks volumes

in terms of how businesses get

better and how businesses have the

right conversations at the right times.

Individually, though, um, I, I get

surrounded by the people that I hang

out and believe that everybody I come

across has something to teach me.

And through my career, through my

journey, that's been different leaders

in my businesses, and they've all

tended to be rather direct about what

they need, what they want, what

the expectations were, and I was

happy to sit there behind them.

Um, I joke about my old boss, um, he's,

he-- we're at an IT managed service

provider, and I, I joke about the

fact that he gave me equal pats on

the back and slaps on the back of the

head in whatever measure that

required, depending on what I needed

in any moment.

But he gave me the freedom, exactly,

gave me the freedom to actually go

and learn and harness and work

and develop and actually grow our

sales organization and triple it

over the course of my tenure there.

And it was just, got the space

to do that.

And so, um, mine is again, more local

rather than the Anthony Robbins

of the world and, and, and a

bit more global.

Um- Anthony Robbins.

Well, yeah, I, I mean, yeah, I'm

not, not gonna… Yeah, that.

Anyway, that's my answer.

Short answer.

Cool.

We will never give you a long

answer short.

No, we won't.

The short long road or

the long short road.

Give me plenty of food

Aaron & Andrew: for thinking.

Anthony Perl: That's a whole

nother debate.

The long short road or the

short long road.

You gotta work that one out.

Aaron & Andrew: Correct.

Correct.

Anthony Perl: Guys, it's been an

absolute pleasure.

You're gonna be at the Influencers

event, so, uh, encouraging everyone

to, uh, reach out while you're there,

and, uh, we'll include details

on, in the show notes of how people

can get in touch with you guys.

But sellmates.com.au,

right?

Aaron & Andrew: Be clear and clear.

That is all you need to start with,

and come and have a chat with us.

Anthony Perl: Excellent.

Well, thank you so much for being part

of the podcast.

Aaron & Andrew: Thank you again.

Thanks.

Anthony Perl: Well, that's

this conversation wrapped up.

If it got you thinking about your

own influence, The Influencers 2026

is on Wednesday, October 7th, at

the Northside Conference Centre in

Sydney, and tickets are available via

influencers2026.com.au.

The link, of course, is also

in the show notes.

I'll be there on the day, so if you

want to talk about how my team and I

can help you have a podcast that

becomes a content machine for your

business to improve your influence and

make you a voice of brilliance,

come talk to me.

Until then, and don't forget to

keep an eye out for the next episode.