We're gonna dive into why crawling is more than just a milestone. This was new to me, you guys, and apparently it's a foundational for sensory and motor development and how to navigate some red flags and take early action. So listen into this episode 'cause it really is going to give you some valuable wisdom about your baby's development.

I'm so excited about this conversation. Welcome Allison. Thank you so

Allison: much for having me. I am so excited. And yes, I wear both hats that often overlap as a physical therapist. That's what I, you know, am trained in. And I love working with kids. And also I come from the mom end of being a mom of four. And yes, two boys, two girls.

But my twins are the first borns and they are boy, girl twins. And then I have a boy, and then I have a girl. So it's like a nice, my, my, technically my oldest is a girl. Then her brother was a minute later. Then two years, LA later I had my, my second boy and then, my youngest, you know, there it was four kids within five and a half years actually.

Trish: Okay. You put me to shame. But my last one is way like there's a big distance. He's the only one at home, so.

Allison: Yes, yes. And my kids have gotten very big. My twins just turned 14, my second one just or my third technically.

Just turned 12 yesterday and then I have an eight and a half year old. So we're out of the baby stage. But, but I still immerse myself in the baby toddler stage 'cause that's where I really focus my, my work.

Trish: I love that. So I would love to just hear how you narrow down to that. You know, specific of a niche with child development and where your passion comes from that and just what moms need to know.

Allison: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Such a, such a packed question, right? Yeah, it's a lot. So much child back, so much time back. Yeah. And so, okay, so when I went into physical therapy, I always loved working with kids. Like I was always the camp counselor and I babysat and I did all those kind of things with kids as I was a teenager growing up.

I wanna work with kids. And I went into, I actually started out in a sensory gym and I went into the school setting and eventually focusing on babies, but I've worked with everything from newborns through maybe age 11, 12, that, early, preteen and and so I've run the fall gamut.

In my more recent years, I've gone much more, you know, dove very heavy into the baby. Field. And there are so many reasons for that. One is it's really the foundation. This is the beginning, this is the start. And I think when I was in the school system for seven years, I asked, I would do an intake.

So they're really set up for success for later on. And so I ended up going more into the baby area. I love it. And I think that there's a big gap there because there's not a lot of, there's either so much information or not enough information. It's a little bit of both, right? Where there's, the parents are like overwhelmed with so many different areas, but not a lot in this specific area.

And so I love to educate parents and really bring to the forefront how important these milestones are.

Trish: I love that so much. So tell me like, what are some things that moms need to know? That are like, you need to know this, and this is really important because it sounds to me like when you were working with the kids in the school system.

There were things that were missed. Are there things that were missed by professionals or parents and

Allison: professionals? Yeah, so I, there, there are a few different things that we can touch on. Certainly, and I'll specifically say to that in terms of, those children in, you know, kindergarten.

And old, different areas that. Kids need to be successful in preschool and kindergarten. Maybe they're falling on their friends when they're sitting in circle time, they can't sit up straight. They're constantly touching things around them. Okay? These are all things that when kids get to preschool, kindergarten, first grade, they need to do right.

However, a lot of those kids did struggle. They didn't crawl. That is one of the big ones. They never crawled. Wow. Or Yes, right. It's amazing. They, or they did some compensating sort of crawl, right? So they either never crawled, they went straight to walking, maybe they just sat and they were just comfortable sitting and then they went straight to walking.

Trish: So when the parents went to the pediatricians for that, because they probably did, what were they told?

Allison: Yeah, so really good question. And a lot of times, and I hear this all the time now, that parents go to the pediatrician and they're noticing, my baby isn't rolling yet. I don't know if I should worry about that.

Or My baby is, you know, only army crawling, not crawling. They're doing some funny movement, right? And a lot of times they will hear. Wait and see, wait and see, wait and see. Don't worry about it. Not all babies do these milestones. Okay? Eventually your baby will walk. Don't worry about it. Now, I, I don't love to, you know, knock on pediatricians because mm-hmm.

Right. And so their perspective often is, the case is as long as baby can get from point A to point B eventually, it doesn't matter how they get there. Right. It doesn't matter how and, and really the challenge is also then if a parent with a five-year-old goes to the pediatrician and says, you know, my baby's struggling in school with not my baby.

My child is struggling in school, they're not cutting, they're not, they're falling on their friends. They might refer them out to service. Oh, you know, check with the school system for. Services in school. They're not always going back and remembering, Hey, when that child was nine months old, did they crawl?

Parent that that pediatricians always talk about, reflect on, think about. And so when a parent does come to them with a concern, it's not necessarily like, it's not their area of expertise, right? And so, yeah, they're not necessarily, you know, going to jump at that. There are many pediatricians who do they refer out, they say go for an evaluation, go for services.

But so often they're not. And it's really unfortunate because we have this key opportunity during. This early development period to make sure our babies do these movements right? Mm-hmm. One of the things about crawling is that it's the last opportunity for us to weight bear through our arms, right?

And once we, once we stand up, we are walking around and we aren't getting all that strength that we need in our shoulders. So this really begs the question, well, what is the connection between crawling and all the skills I mentioned? Right, right. Like, why, what, what, actually, I don't think I even mentioned that yet.

So I just mentioned that shoulder strength. This is the last chance that babies are really, you know, weightbearing through their shoulders, through their arms, developing their, their hand strength, and all of that strength. It's like math. It builds on each other, right? And so if they put out on this key time to strengthen up their muscles, this is when they are later on, going to struggle with some of those fine motor skills that actually need a lot of arm strength, the shoulder strength that they need for those fine motor skills or self dressing skills like buttoning and zippering, things like that.

They can actually maintain good posture when they're sitting at their desk and not fall over, not fatigue. And so these are really, really critical things about crawling that support. Higher level skills in school.

Trish: Okay. So these things that you're saying that's happening in kindergarten. Are they being associated with physical things or behavior things?

That's a really good question. Yeah. 'cause I'm wondering if teachers think they're staying outta someone's, they're not staying outta someone's space. That would make your mind think it's a behavioral thing.

Allison: Yes. Yes. And it's, it, it is actually a very common thing that happens, right in those preschool, kindergarten classrooms, Uhhuh, where it's like, you know, stop touching your friends.

Are proprioception and vestibular. The proprioceptive sense is what is body awareness is, you know, where is my body in space and if I close my eyes, I know where my hand is, I know that my toes are wiggling. Right. But, but children don't have that. It has to develop over time. And the way that sense develops is through a lot of deep pressure through the joints of the body, which is what crawling offers us, right?

Yeah. And the vestibular sense helps us with balance. And the way that develops is when the head moves in different ways against gravity, which is what rolling and crawling provide us. Mm-hmm. And so this is when later on when you know, we, we need to sit up with good balance. We want to make sure that we are maintaining our personal space.

There's a range of normal, they're still developing it, but. As they, this is a very, very important foundational element in order to help them later on. And so y you're right that sometimes those kids that are constantly wiggling, they can't even sit at in a chair. They'll fall off their chair in kindergarten.

There are those kids and it's actually because they're lacking body awareness. They don't interesting know their body is in space and so. They can't contain themselves without touching everything around them or having very hard, sitting in a chair with armrests or something that will contain them.

'cause just sitting on the floor, they fall over. They, they don't know where their body's in space. They actually like can't feel their body. It's

Trish: so fascinating. Yeah. So what they really need is to be referred to you when they're not crawling.

Allison: Yes, yes. And so that's really what we want is when we're starting to see.

You're like, mm-hmm. I can't, I'm thinking about so many other things. I can't think about kindergarten just yet. Right. And I totally. Totally relate to that, right. One step at a time. But what are the things that parents should really focus on in these early months, right? Which is we wanna make sure that our babies are on track with development.

We want to pay attention to some things to make sure that babies are, continuing to make progress towards their milestones and with good quality of movement, that they're doing it the right way. And so if we delve into that a little bit deeper. There are certain milestones that, there's a range of normal of what those milestones are and when babies should achieve them.

We also have rolling, which is achieved usually between four and six months sitting. Six to eight months, crawling seven to 10 months and then walking, there's a huge range of normal Yeah. For 10 all the way up to 15 months. And some will even say up to 18 months. And there's a huge range of normal for the, you know, of walking.

But all of these milestones, we want babies to meet them within the range of normal, but anytime in that range is. Acceptable. Right. If your baby right isn't meeting the same milestone as your neighbor's baby at the exact same time, it's okay. Right? Yeah. It's totally fine. You don't have to panic, but you do wanna pay attention to these milestone.

Some babies do that, or Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah. Right. Or scoot around on their mom or,

Trish: or they crawl with the, like. With their legs kind of extended on their toes. Like their button air. Yes.

Allison: Yes, exactly. Exactly. You know, so like there's all these different variations. Mm-hmm. But the variations aren't giving us all the benefits that, that they need for that strong foundation that we're trying to set for the normal baby crawl.

Yeah, exactly. So

Trish: at what point, during that window, would you say that it might be wise to seek out an opinion? Yeah.

Allison: So if. What we wanna see is continuous progress. So, and that's, that's a really good question 'cause like right, like, well, what if my baby is, you know, five months and isn't rolling yet? Do I pat it down?

Are they trying to reach for toys across their body? Are they trying to maybe get onto their side, but they haven't like, fully mastered the role yet? Right? Or for crawling is baby. You know, pushing up through straight arms is baby trying to tuck their knees under. Maybe they're rocking on all fours or they're doing like a plank sort of movement or something like that.

We wanna see baby trying to get towards those milestones. And if you are seeing continuous progress and you're still within the range of normal, great. And even if you know your baby is, six months exactly, and your baby hasn't fully mastered rolling back to belly and they're only doing belly to back.

Like lumping around, you know, they, they're making no effort to move. Or your

Trish: mom instinct is saying, this isn't, yes. Like something outright right? My baby's not

Allison: making any effort towards moving. Or you are noticing asymmetries or very stiff jerky movements, or your baby feels really floppy. That's what we call low tone is like, it would feel very floppy and they're, every time you like, pick them up, their arms kind of like wiggle, you know?

Yeah. And you feel, they feel very loose. And they're also not moving. That's when, right. That intuition, that mom tuition, right, where you're like, something just doesn't feel right. And that's when I would, you know, absolutely bring it up with your pediatrician. But if you still get that like, wait and see, comment, use, you feel in your gut whether or not that feels right, like mm, yeah, but waiting and seeing, right.

A parent is the best advocate for their child. Mm-hmm. Right? You know, your child best. Your pediatrician can have your best interests at heart, your baby's best interests at heart. But at the end of the day, you're the one who knows them best. You're the one who sees them the most often, who sees them when they're, you know, happy and awake and or sad and tired, and you're the one that's going to really know,

was this just like, in the doctor's office, they didn't wanna perform and so they, the doctor didn't see, baby was naked and tired and hungry, angry and stranger danger and wasn't performing. Or is it really that they're, that they're really not, making any of that progress and we really need a little bit further help.

Trish: Yeah. So that leads me to, let's say the doctor is just. Dismissing them. Are there some things that key words or triggers that they can say to, 'cause a lot of them have to have a referral, right?

If you push and you say, but I am worried and I need more. Okay. It's, it's not in the doctor's, it's not a negative for the doctor to refer you out. You know what I mean? Right. Like they might say, wait and see, but if you really say like, listen, I know you're telling me to wait and see. Don't be afraid to be the quote unquote crazy mom.

A lot of us to be the person. Yeah. The person, right. A lot of us feel nervous about that at the end of the day. You not in a mean way, but like you're just another patient, right? Like

Trish: I say this all the time in birth stuff. Yes. They're gonna go home, they clock out. But it's your life, correct? Yeah,

Allison: exactly.

Like they go home, at the end of the day, they've seen, two dozen patients probably more and like. Even if they think about you as being like, oh, this worried mom that I had. Okay, so you're the worried mom. Yeah. Okay. You're worried. That's actually what you're in that moment. That's okay. Yeah. And they go home.

But if you are like, no, no, no. So don't be afraid, number one. Yeah. To be that person, to be that mom. You don't have to worry about it. Just remember, go in and say, I need to advocate for my child. That is what I'm here for. And it's sometimes you have to like even turn on your brain, right? Like naturally you're like, no, I don't wanna bother anyone.

You know what? Then turn on and say, right now I'm taking that hat off. Yeah. And I'm putting on the mom hat that I need, or the parent hat that I need and I'm going in and doing that. Okay? So that's number one. Number two, if you are in the United States, every state has an early intervention program.

You still have to qualify for an evaluation and then they have to set it up so it can actually take a lot of time to get that done. Also in different states, different states have different payment plan options. So like I know some states like New York, it is fully free. Well, where I am in New Jersey, there's like a payment scale based on your income.

Okay. So it really varies state to state and what you have to pay. And then in many states you can go to a PT directly. There is no referral. It depends on your insurance and your state. Outside of the United States is a completely different ball game, obviously, and not one I could speak to as much, but I do know, 'cause I work with, a lot of international families as well in the UK and Canada and Australia, that it could also take a very long time to get services.

And even services can be very, very limited. It could be a once a month like consultation. Right. And they're not actually providing ongoing services. And so I do offer an online membership for families as well. That, and that people can come to,

Trish: sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you because No, at all.

Working in this space that I work in, I realize, and I have a couple clients who are lactation consultants and they've had to address that misconception that it needs to be in person, but actually you're in your own habitat and the doctor or the lactation, or in your case, you as a doctor, you're seeing them.

I feel like there's a huge benefit to that as well.

Allison: It's so interesting you say that because I, this is gonna sound crazy, especially as a physical therapist, you feel like it's a physical thing that you need somebody hands on with your baby. Yeah. Can I tell you that since I've started my membership, I have seen more success through the membership than I have with in-person therapy, which is, that makes so much sense to me for me to say that, and I'm gonna tell you why.

And in my case, with babies, I even find it more so because as they're moving through the developmental milestone, right? Every few weeks changes things, right? It changes things for the baby, new skills that they should be working on. And also a big component of it is stranger danger. And so once we have babies who are six months old, eight months old, 10 months old, the when and I treat, they don't wanna leave Mom.

They don't want to leave mom. Right? Yeah. Or maybe the babysitter or their daycare worker, whatever it is. Right. And so when I've treated in person, and I know that I know how to treat babies, but the sessions are, oh, babies crying a lot of the time. Not because of anything I'm doing specifically, but they don't like me.

That's just what they do. Yeah, that's what they do. They're allowed to, and you have the

Allison: Yep. Exactly. And so and so I'm handling the baby and I'm trying to do things and often I end up having to educate the parent anyway on what to do, because we're gonna get more outta the session.

So number one is when we're working virtually, I find that. The parent is already going to have better success because we're not dealing with all the, the crying. Right? Yeah. I also find that when, parents are going to sessions, that it's your baby is never going to have the perfect sleep schedule, the perfect feeding schedule, the perfect diaper schedule, so.

I inevitably have parents come, they missed the nap this morning. The session's gonna be a disaster, right? Yeah. We, we, he didn't eat well and now it's gonna be, you know, he's crying 'cause he's hungry. And now like we're, you know, do we spend the time during the session feeding or not? You know, all those kind of things.

When you go to a a, a session once a week, maybe twice a week, you're gonna get through early intervention, but that's very atypical. Often it's once a week. It's like going to the gym once a week versus actually doing 20 minutes of exercise every day, right? Mm-hmm. You're not going to see the same. The same change, the same rate of success with only once a week.

Yeah. And so what I find is when parents join my membership and they're getting, they're learning what to do themselves, I say, what I want parents to do is five to 10 minutes, twice a day. And that is going to make all the difference. And parents start seeing progress literally within days, sometimes like overnight.

This is not for everybody, right? And there are many cases that in-person, help is really, really important. But. I find that, sometimes parents will join my membership in addition to in-person therapy 'cause they won. I was wondering that as well. Yeah, I have a lot of that.

I have a lot of parents who, like, they're doing in-person therapy, but they're like, but I need more. We need more. We're not seeing fast enough. You know, we're not seeing if I don't know what to do at home when my baby's on the floor and just playing. Like, I wanna make it useful. And so they're joining in addition to that.

And in that end, sometimes it's really taking a long time to get, in-person services. And so they'll join the membership while they're waiting for the evaluation. And what's funny is sometimes by the time the evaluation comes, the child isn't qualified anymore 'cause they've made so much progress.

Yeah. But maybe if they do, then fine. But at least we didn't waste all this precious time, right? Where, you could just be waiting for an evaluation versus hands-on and starting to implement things and seeing progress very quickly.

Trish: So let's just say they are waiting for an evaluation and they come to your membership.

Allison: Right. So what the way the membership works is when you join, you get access to all my on-demand courses. So I have courses on rolling, crawling, walking, and infant massage. And so you get access, you can start watching right away depending on what you know, where your baby's at, what milestone they're approaching.

What I also have is live group Zoom calls twice a week for my members so they can come on anybody and I, they vary at times 'cause I'm literally accommodating like a worldwide, yeah. Membership, which is amazing. So we try to accommodate all time zones. So it's weekly or twice a week. That I host these group calls and you can come and I give every person who joins a few minutes so they can show me a skill or they can show me their baby and I can say, you know what, here are the three activities I want you to work on this week.

And it's discounted for members, and this is this way they can get that, additional support if they, if they feel that they need that.

Trish: I love that. I I love that. So then they also have each other to. Can have community with, correct. Exactly. Exactly.

Allison: Yeah. And like, it's nice, you know, 'cause so many parents do feel stressed when, again, their niece or nephew is doing something and they were only born a week before their baby, or, yeah.

You know, their neighbor's baby. All the kids at daycare or maybe even their older child did things so fast and they never even thought about milestones. And then the next baby, they're like, well. Wait, what? What? Why isn't this baby moving at all? Like, what's going on? You know? And so, and

Trish: then Nana is saying,

Allison: oh, he's not crawling yet.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Everybody has an opinion, right? Yeah. Everybody comes an opinion and, and that's stressful, right? Or the mother-in-law who buys the shoes for the first birthday, he's like, wait, what do you mean they're not walking yet? And it's like, no, any time they don't need to be walking by their first birthday.

I learned so much by listening to the other parents' questions, by listening to your answers to the other parents. Like, I learned so much in this call that I now know what to do. You know? Yeah. Because I able to watch this other baby.

Trish: I was able to, you know what, that happens in my hangouts too, right? From my pregnant moms.

They hear the other person who might be 38 weeks and they're only 18 weeks, and they're hearing it and navigating it. It's one of the most powerful things.

Allison: It is. It's, it's really, it really is so powerful when you're like, no, no, no. My, my things aren't. I'm not the only one dealing with this. Yeah, a hundred percent.

Allison: Sure. So my website is tots on target.com, so that has, you know, everything you need to know is, is on there. Yeah. Tots on target.com. I'm also on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube. My handle is Tots on Target, very simple. And, and the membership is called The Tots Spot. And that is Oh, I love that. Yeah.

And it's right on my membership. You can actually, if you're in the United States, you can use, your H-S-A-F-S-A accounts, for, your, like the money you could put aside, yeah, can tax money. And then you can put aside, so you can use that, you can join monthly or annually.

And it's a really great way to come and join and be the best advocate for your child, right? Yeah. At the end of the day, we just, we all want the best for our kids. That's just what we want. And so, yeah. And so this is a great way to do that, to feel like you are not waiting around for anyone to give you permission to help your baby.

And not have to ask permission, not have to wait and, all that kind of stuff. Not have to get dressed and leave the house. Yes. That too. Right. And especially like when you have to put your baby in the car and rushing and they need a diaper change. Yeah. Like, it's so stressful to get outta the house.

Yeah. And, and this way you don't, you don't have to do that.

Trish: I love it so much. Well, thank you so much for coming today. It was really nice to meet you. Thank you so much for having me. I love being here. Thank you. And let me just ask really quick before we hop off, do you have any kind of like checklist or anything that you, that you would like for us to share with our

Allison: audience?

Sure. I have several free, resources for your, for your listeners. On my website, you can find a free milestone checklist. Okay. Which lists all the mini. And major milestones from birth. I think it goes to like 18 months. So that's a really helpful like checklist of just remembering like, you know, if you don't remember like, wait, what did she say about playing with toes?

Delve a little bit deeper into what all these things are and what I need to know, so it's all free for the taking on tos on target com.

Trish: Awesome. Thank you so much for coming today. Thank you for having me.

Okay, mama. I hope today's conversation with Dr. Allison gave you some peace and some confidence. Remember, you are this baby's number one advocate, and just paying attention and knowing these things ahead of time is so much power. Now if you have a little one who's struggling to meet milestones or just feeling unsure, you don't have to wait or wonder, you can reach out, get support, and trust your gut.

Until next time, I will see you guys again next Friday. Bye for now.