⚠️ Content advisory: this episode discusses grief, which some listeners may find distressing.

If you need support, you're not alone — help is available:

Lifeline (24/7 crisis support): 13 11 14 · lifeline.org.au

In April 2007, Rula's world fractured when she was diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukaemia. What followed was eight months of intensive chemotherapy and a bone marrow transplant using a donor from Germany who was only 80 percent compatible. The transplant triggered graft versus host disease twice, steroid-induced diabetes, five eye surgeries, a mini-stroke, and a year-long hospital stay. Years later, just as she'd rebuilt her strength and fitness, she was diagnosed with secondary cancer. Through it all, Rula held fast to one practice: controlling what she could control-her mind. She learned to break recovery into one step at a time, lean on faith and hope, build a support network, and transform her pain into purpose. Now 19 years post-transplant, she runs a counselling practice and has written Stronger, a guide to healing from adversity.

Rula Selinas is a counsellor, life coach, author, and founder of Transform Counselling and Coaching on the Gold Coast. A two-time cancer survivor who navigated acute lymphoblastic leukaemia and bone marrow transplant in 2007-2008, then secondary cancer years later, she channels her lived experience into guiding clients through adversity and building resilience.

In this Grit Diaries conversation with Mon & Mazz, Roula shares the story behind the moments below.

🎙️ IN THIS CONVERSATION:

• Mental control is agency: when your body is under siege, the mind is the one place…

🕒 CHAPTERS:

00:00 Welcome to The Grit Diaries

03:20 Childhood in Haverfield: Milk Bar, Books, and Belonging

08:00 After High School: Admin, Business, Personal Development

13:00 Understanding Bone Marrow Transplant and the Catch-22 of Survival

15:50 The Cascade: Graft Versus Host, Diabetes, Stroke, and What Came After

17:00 Mental Control: The One Thing She Could Govern

18:40 Ten Years to Rebuild: Relationship Breakdown and Finding Purpose on the Kayak

20:00 One Step at a Time: From Walking to Kayaking

22:50 Secondary Cancer: The Second Fracture and a Calling to Study

27:00 The Sacred Role of Support Networks and How to Ask for Help

31:00 Presence Over Words: The Power of Sitting, Silence, and Touch

34:50 Closing: Transform Counselling, Breaking Barriers, and Rula's Gift

🎧 If this story moved you, follow Kintsugi Heroes in your podcast app so you never miss an episode.

🌐 CONNECT WITH ROULA SELINAS:

Transform Counselling and Coaching: www.transformcounsellingcoaching.com.au

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We're glad you found your way here.

Kintsugi Heroes was created from a simple belief: every person has a story worth sharing, and sometimes the story we need to hear arrives exactly when we need it most.

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Kintsugi Heroes is a not-for-profit, and every story we share is free for the people who need it. If this show has meant something to you, you can help us keep going. Visit kintsugiheroes.com.au and click donate. Every contribution helps us keep telling these stories, and it's tax-deductible.

Welcome to The Grit Diaries with Mon and Maz, a place where we show real stories meets real transformation.

Each episode, we share the journeys of everyday people who's faced life's hardest moments and found their way to hope, healing and purpose.

May their courage inspire you and in the world around you.

Let's get inspired.

Mon, aren't we so fortunate? I cannot encourage everyone to watch in on today's episode on The Grit Diaries.

We had the incredible Rula Salinas, a two-times cancer survivor, stories of resilience through incredible adversity and she wrote a book, Stronger.

Yeah, you can overcome and bounce back from adversity and she gives the seven-step guide to how you can heal from within and it's so inspirational how she navigated, yeah, not one cancer but two with just such strength really, wasn't it?

Real grit as in our Grit Diaries. She's so appropriate for this episode of Grit Diaries.

Yeah, so watch in and you'll gain so much from our interview today.

Well, hello everyone and welcome to another great episode of The Grit Diaries.

Hey Mon.

Hey Maz, how are you?

Oh, I'm really, really good.

I'm on the back end of our daughter's 21st, so it's been lots of fun and getting refocused back into the hot seat again.

And haven't we just got an amazing guest with us today?

Welcome to you, Rulis.

Thank you for having me on, Mon and Maz.

This one's been a long time in the making having you here and we've had a few exchanges prior and I think we must be channeling each other today.

We're both in blue.

We've both got this blonde piece happening here.

I think you are.

I know, you could be sisters.

Often it's Mon and I, we're both in our yellows.

We're just kind of shaking things up a little bit today.

So, yeah, it's beautiful and mine always looks sensational in your yellow.

I love it.

Yeah, I love the yellow.

Let's just say I don't spit in yellow.

But it's always a ray of sunshine.

It's beautiful.

It's great.

Yeah.

So now you're here with us from Brisbane.

Gold Coast.

Brisbane time, Gold Coast.

Yes.

Oh, beautiful.

I love it up there.

But let's just share with the audience, before we dive into a little bit more about you, Rulis, if we can just share with our beautiful audience about your background.

Rulis is a counsellor.

She's a life coach, an author, a speaker, and she's dedicated to helping individuals heal, grow and thrive.

She does this in her practice and also with the book that she's written.

Her counselling practice is called Transform Counselling and Coaching and the Break Free Framework.

She is the founder of this.

She blends her counselling, coaching and resilience building techniques, and she guides clients on a journey to gain clarity, confidence and inner freedom.

Who doesn't want that?

We all need that.

She's navigated herself some significant life challenges, both personally and in her health journey.

She brings an absolute authenticity, a compassion and insight into her work.

Her mission is to inspire and equip others to live their best life.

Amazing.

What beautiful words.

And, you know, your clients must be so blessed to have you.

So thank you for being with us today, Rula.

My pleasure.

Rula, tell us a little bit about what life was like growing up.

I think we were talking before you come from a Greek background.

And so, yeah, just tell us a little bit about where you were in your family and what was happening in the early days for you.

Sure.

Well, I grew up in Haverfield and my parents had a milk bar.

They ran a milk bar seven days a week, very hardworking immigrants, as a lot of them were back in the day.

And I went to Haverfield Demonstration School, which was a great school.

When I think of my childhood, I think it was just such a simple life.

It was just carefree.

I'd spend my days, well, you know, my afternoons riding my bike, going to the parks.

In those days, they would just, you know, let you go.

There was several parks around, riding my, you know, roller skates later when I was older, visiting the library.

I'd immerse myself in books.

So I was a very active child.

I had two brothers.

So I'd play soccer or football with them or with the neighbours.

So it was fun.

I had lots of relatives and family friends.

So we'd have, you know, many get togethers when my parents could.

They did work a lot.

Like I said, it was seven days a week.

So we really had to entertain ourselves most of the time because they were really busy.

So we learnt to entertain ourselves and I kept busy.

That's like, you know, our Australian experience, isn't it?

That, you know, I think we can all relate to that era of our lives where we were, you know, the cliche, you know, come back when, you know, the streetlights come on and work things out for ourselves and get up to mischief, but, you know, come back unscathed.

But I guess then you had that extra element.

Both your parents were working and that sort of, you know, seven days a week and probably that extra element to it.

But it sounds like you really enjoyed that experience and what a delight it is to have had that growing up.

Yes, because when I think back of it, look, it was just so carefree and simple when you look at it.

When I reflect on it now, look, when I went to school, I really couldn't speak English that well because my parents, my mum especially, insisted on talking to us in Greek because they wanted us to learn the language.

And, you know, I went to some special English lessons.

But despite this, I ended up going to a selective high school, Fort Street.

And I just reflect on those days as just carefree and simple, you know, going to the park, immersing myself in books, in fantasy.

And it was good.

And I think there has to be something mentioned there, too, is even though it's, you know, that quintessential, beautiful, carefree upbringing, those memories, there was probably a lot of resilience within that.

And also for you to end up, you know, at a selective at Fort Street, for goodness sake.

You know, I think perhaps even in that migrant journey, you've witnessed your parents having to work hard to give you what you had and you got to see what hard work does and to help the community, you know, your family at large.

And so I often think that journey for the migrant families tends to lend itself into you then absorbing.

I have to work hard at school.

I have to, you know, you've witnessed your parents do it.

Now it's, you know, I wouldn't say a favour as such, but just, you know, maybe an expectation or just that's what you wanted to do to sort of be respectful to what they've done for you.

Yeah.

We had people, machines in the shop as well.

Like it was a local hangout.

So it was a really great place to, you know, I just remember it being fun and I would even help out in the shop and serve customers.

And, you know, I had access to all the lollies and chocolates.

I would have wanted to be one of your friends.

We had lots of friends, hey, they were all there hanging out.

Yes.

Yeah.

And lots of people after school would come and hang out.

So I'd always be on the pinball machine and yeah, it was fun.

So basically I was 13 and then my parents moved and went to south of Sydney and I finished my schooling in Moorfield Girls High School.

But like I said, when I think of my childhood, it was a fun time.

Lots of tradition, lots of culture, lots of family, friends.

It wouldn't be uncommon for them to go to someone's place at 10 o'clock at night after work, you know, and just so they could.

Very social, very connected.

Yeah.

And so, Rola, tell me after high school, where did you go after that?

Did you go to university?

What did you do?

No, I didn't go to university.

I didn't have any plans.

I studied in Metropolitan Business College in Circular Quays.

So I studied admin and then I ended up getting my first job at AAMI.

I spent several years in the city working in admin jobs and in legal firms until I moved out to suburbia.

And I also worked in construction as a personal assistant for many years.

And then I had my first child at 27, about 25 years old when I started studying personal development.

So I really got into studying at that age.

What brought you, Rola, to the idea because you're in admin and you're in that business side of things.

When you look back and you reflected around about that age of 25, what drew you to the desire to even look at the whole notion of personal development?

Or was it just a net?

Well, when I had my first daughter, I studied small business management enterprise.

So I ended up studying that.

And then I was just reading personal development books.

I just wanted to better myself.

I used to go to seminars and workshops and just try and learn any techniques that I could, whether it was sales, because after my daughter, I worked with my husband for a while in his workshop.

We had a family business in Ananda.

And yeah, so like I was really into personal development.

I've seen Tony Robbins and many, many speakers, Jim Rohn.

So I really got into it at that stage.

And then from my daughter after that, I, yeah, started studying small business management.

And I applied those skills to when I was working with my husband as well, the workshop in the admin.

And we ended up winning the best automotive in a West in 2000.

Again, that hard work that would have paid off.

My gosh.

So Rilda, could you just take us back in time that you received a diagnosis?

Do you want to walk us through that particular time of life?

Sure.

So we moved to the Gold Coast.

We had wanted to for a very long time, living in our nice borderfront house.

I was working at Gold Coast City Council as a personal assistant to the city planner and environmental planning.

So I was working there part time.

In April 2007, my life changed forever.

So I was diagnosed with acute lymphoblastic leukaemia.

And without treatment, I had a few weeks to a few months to live.

With treatment, I didn't just have to have chemo.

I had to have a bone marrow transplant.

So there started my journey.

What I went for tests one night, thinking I'm going to come back, thinking I have a virus or something.

I ended up staying in hospital for about a year and four months.

So I didn't end up coming back.

They had a bed for me that night.

It just all happened so quick.

Basically, I tell my work, I'm not feeling that good that day.

The next day, I'm not back.

I had one of the most intensive chemos available, and that was for eight months.

Now, I thought that was hard.

That was nothing compared to what was going to be in store with the bone marrow transplant.

You know, it was really hard for me to even let go of my kids were in Gold Coast.

Mum and Dan moved up.

Mum stayed with me in the units that Leukemia Foundation had provided for us.

And Dad was with the girls.

And my husband had a new business on the Gold Coast.

So it was just sort of more practical because the girls were going to school there.

And they would just come up on the weekends.

He would come up during the leak as well.

So it was really, really difficult just to even let go of just, you know, that they're there and I don't have that control to look after them.

So as I mentioned, I thought the chemo was hard.

Well, that was nothing to what lay ahead.

I had to have a bone marrow transplant.

I had to get a donor from Germany.

We ended up finding a donor from Germany.

I had to get one from wherever I could find one, but there was no matches Australia.

So we had to do an international search.

How did they find someone all the way over from Germany?

They have a database of donors.

So none of my family or anyone was matches.

So yeah, they ended up finding a male from Germany.

He wasn't a good match.

I mean, thank God for him, but he wasn't a good match.

He was only 80% compatible, but he was my best chance at survival.

So then I had to prepare to go for the bone marrow transplant.

So more chemo, very high dosage, radiation this time.

So they basically wipe out your whole system.

You've got no immune system left.

So they can bring in this new donor cells.

The transplant wasn't really that much of a thing.

It was more what happened before and after, especially after, because you've got nothing to fight anything that happens, infections or whatever.

There's just so many things that can go wrong.

Can I ask a quick question?

I know you're talking to Maz, who's a nurse, but I heard often bone marrow transplant, but I don't actually know what that actually is.

For the listeners, I'm sure there's a few out there that don't know what it is.

Yes.

Are you able to explain?

Of course.

Yeah.

So it's basically, well, changing your whole blood, basically.

Right.

So acute lymphoblastic leukaemia, that is a blood cancer.

Yeah, right.

Wow.

So they're changing your whole blood.

So they're emptying out existing blood and putting completely new blood into you.

Well, killing off all whatever's in you.

And not only that, just even your immune system.

That's why you're in isolation then, because you cannot be exposed to anyone because of the risk of getting things.

Infection, yeah.

Infections.

So I was very isolated for a long time.

Yeah.

So the problem with not being a good match, I happened is I got graft versus host, which is your T cells recognize the donor cells are foreign and they start attacking it.

And so I ended up having graft versus host twice.

Twice, acute first, they hit it with high doses of steroids, which causes further problems.

I'm not going to list everything I've gone through.

I've gone through, because I'll be here for hours, but just some of the things I've been through, you know, were so many infections and viruses.

And it's such a catch-22, isn't it, Rula?

And I love that Mon picks up, you know, we're talking about medical things and just to kind of break it down so it makes sense to the layperson.

You know, it's such a catch-22 when, you know, we're having to knock out the immune system.

So it's not going to reject the incoming foreign material.

But yet at the same time, you are depleted of your immune system.

That is your defense line.

It's your frontline defense against, you know, just your basic common cold, you know, flus so minor for the average person, just a little sniffle could turn lethal.

So even though they have to bring it right down so that it doesn't react to what's coming in, it also leaves you very prone to anything and everything.

So it gives you a real appreciation for this human system, doesn't it?

Just what is happening below this little meat suit and what it does to keep us upright so that we can go out and do what we do in the world and see everything and sense the world through our senses.

But it takes, you know, this cascade of the unfortunate circumstances that you've been through with the leukemia to really get a real understanding of all these mechanisms that your body has had one system to go under to impact the rest.

Well, add to that three immune suppressants on top of to keep, you know, to manage it.

When I had the steroids to try and manage the graft versus host, that caused diabetes.

So steroid induced diabetes, there was just a multitude of things that went wrong.

Well, not went wrong, but that happened as a side effect.

You know, I've had five eye operations since, you know, from the start to finish.

I've had my gallbladder taken out.

I had a mini stroke in 2009 because I got so sick, a mini stroke.

You are resilient.

The thing that was really, really difficult was it was just one thing after the other and you'd get, well, I don't know, you know, you'd get to a stage where it was okay and then you had something else happen.

And it's like you're just constantly starting again and again.

And it was a long, long journey.

And that was chronic fatigue on top of it, you know, when I got home.

What was happening for you on an emotional and spiritual?

Obviously, your physical body was being ambushed and there was so much that you were having to manage.

When you reflect back, what was happening there and how was that affecting you and your relationships around you?

Obviously, your beautiful children and what was happening there and what was helpful for you in that time?

Well, yeah, it tested me on every single level and my marriage.

What was happening for me?

I kept my mind as positive as I could.

How did you do that?

What specifically?

Can you recall?

I read books.

I would keep busy during the day.

The doctors would laugh at me.

I'd be on my laptop on days where I wasn't like with a fever and, you know, I tried to keep myself busy.

And with my mind, that's the only thing I could control was my mind.

So yes, yes, it tested me on every single level.

It was very difficult.

Tell me what was happening with your beautiful kids because they're obviously, you know, getting that, that was, you know, 2007 to 2009, a lot of that was happening.

So your other one was in primary school.

The older one would have been in primary school.

How is it?

Can you, again, in reflection is we've had several women in your situation and that had children and were hit with a diagnosis.

And I think it's great for the audience that might be listening that are finding themselves in a similar situation or they know someone that has children.

How is it impacting them and how did you help them get an understanding or navigate what was happening?

I didn't talk to them about that.

They would just come and visit me.

Well, that was up to my partner and to say something.

I don't think they knew that much, to be honest, because they lived so far away.

They didn't see anything that I went through.

Yeah.

Only my mum did.

I mean, this is just to 2009.

So it was an ongoing thing that happened.

And it took me like 10 years to rebuild myself up, you know, a very long time.

So it took 10 years to rebuild myself up because when I got home, I think we ended up breaking up with my partner, I think, in 2013.

So that was like six years after my diagnosis because we had a waterfront and I would go on the kayak.

And one day I just was inspired to write this book, which is, was Stronger, You Can Overcome and Bounce Back from Adversity.

Yeah.

Which is this book.

Yay.

Amazing.

And I just, because I thought, you know what, I can really help people with what I've been through.

Yeah.

And that was the first cancer.

I've had chronic fatigue.

So it was really difficult to navigate then life as a single parent.

And when you're functioning on four cylinders, not six, it took me a very, very long time to rebuild my energy and stamina.

Because when I got home after the transplant, I could hardly walk up the stairs.

I was so puffed out.

My muscle mass had deteriorated.

I was so weak.

Yeah, it was really, really difficult.

But I was determined slowly.

I started, you know, riding my bike, walking first.

Started on the kayak and just, like I said, it took me 10 years to rebuild myself up.

And then I was in a really good place.

I was fit, strong and healthy again.

And life had another surprise for me.

And I was diagnosed with secondary cancer.

Hard enough one and a second blow.

Just right when you're back in the game, so to speak.

Yeah.

Wow.

Well, you know, we're really drilling down on the work that you'd written before in your book, Stronger.

And here you were at the cusp of having to go through it again.

And so as we go into our final part of the show today, Rula, we'd love to hear from you about your nuggets of wisdom.

We love hearing from the beautiful guests about the different things that really helped them, isn't it, Mon?

Everyone had something different.

For some people, it might have been a song.

Maybe it was a particular friend.

Maybe it was specific things about their faith.

Maybe it was just learning to surrender.

Whatever it is, we'd love to hear from you.

Maybe what your top three things have been in reflection in that time and what maybe you lean into now still.

Yeah.

What was the grace that you found through all the grit and what are the insights and learnings?

Oh, there's so many, to be honest.

Look, I really leaned into my faith when I was going through it.

And I think that really helped me.

You have to keep hope alive.

There's light at the end of the tunnel.

You take one step at a time and just deal with what's in front of you and just focus on that, not worry about how am I going to get through this.

I didn't even know I was going to make it through that first year.

My goal was to see my kids graduate and get married.

And now I'm a grandmother.

So you take one step at a time because it's just too daunting to think, how am I going to get through this?

On a practical level, what did that look like for you in terms of one step at a time?

So for people that are watching this or listening to this and they are going through their own challenge and they are really hard saying it's really hard to stay grounded and just not sure what's up and down, did you write a list?

Did you just mentally say to yourself, right, next, I need to get to the shop?

Like break it down for us.

What just focus?

No, well, like I said, first of all, I kept my mind busy.

I read books and I tried to focus.

I did not let my mind wander.

That's the one thing I could control.

So when I was in that whole situation, the one thing I could control was the way I thought in my head.

So that's what I managed to do.

And one step at a time was, well, just deal with the task at hand.

Okay, I can't walk up the stairs at the moment.

I literally, it was very difficult.

I could, but it was like an old lady.

And I just would think, you know, when I get a little bit better, I'm going to start walking.

So I didn't think I'm going to start running.

So I'm going to start walking first.

Then when I got a little bit stronger, I went on the kayak or started riding my bike.

So I just started building up my strength and things like that.

Because I was determined to get back to being fit, healthy and strong again.

I love what you said, that Chinese proverb, it's not what happens, it's how you react to it.

And we interviewed a previous Kintsugi podcast where it was rather than saying why, it's what now?

You know, and I thought that was fabulous.

And you do, those thoughts do go through your head.

Of course they do.

Why?

Why me?

Why?

Why did this happen again, even with the second one?

But you can't stay in that victim mode.

So you need to think, what next?

What can I do to make myself be fit, strong and healthy again?

And that was just, you know, start with the diet or with walking and I'm going to go back to the gym.

And yeah, things like that.

So one step at a time to get to your goal that you want to get to.

And I had thrown myself in study after the second cancer, because I thought this is what I'm meant to be doing.

This is the next step.

So through your pain, through your own journey, it helped you define what your purpose was by this.

Yes.

Yes.

Amazing.

So those are the nuggets of wisdom, isn't it?

And the, you know, I talk about the gift of grief, the gift of what lies within what seems like a terrible, terrible mess.

But within that, without that, and it's a pretty hard one purpose.

Yes.

Yes.

Isn't it amazing that you must be able to really lean into deep empathy and compassion with your amazing clients as a result of going through what you have, but also have the wisdom to be able to help them navigate through it.

Exactly.

To guide them through.

And I've often heard people in that struggle period is just, it's 10 minutes at a time, you know, like it's actually breaking it right down to, because often pain as it comes and goes in waves, emotionally and physically, it is often 10 minutes, you know, you just know, you've got to acknowledge you're in sitting in some pain, but it's amazing how it does pass.

Yes.

And I really tap into your hope myself and my story as I understand the power of hope.

And it's an offshoot of joy, hope, by the way, because I studied the emotions and it's a really strange offset of joy.

But yeah, just hang on to the hope that this too will pass.

Yes.

And it does pass.

But I really, going back to that quote, the strongest deal is forged in the hottest fire and it's not what happens to us.

That quote, the Chinese proverb, it's not what happens to us, it's how we react and who we become.

That really resonated with me.

And I really kept that at the forefront of, it's like we became this mantra.

Yeah.

And I think that's really valuable for the, again, our audience to really latch onto that.

It might be a mantra.

It might be a quote in a book.

And sometimes people think, oh, is there even a point to even latch on it?

That is how people get through the tough times.

It could just be a song.

It could be, you know, a glance up from a stranger that just acknowledged your presence, a tip of the hat, a nod to say good morning.

That can mean just everything to someone in a really tough time.

Oh, of course.

Someone who cares, yeah, to acknowledge me, of course.

Yes.

So we thank you for sharing that became a bit of a mantra for you.

And they are, I want people to hear, they are the things that do help you get through that 10 minutes, get through that day, go from walking to walking up the stairs to getting back to the kayak.

And they are the things that you need to consider to hang on to and find what works for you, that those are the things that really do help.

They're your tools.

They're your strategies.

Yes.

Anything else that you found was really helpful for you in terms of getting through these challenging times and perhaps things that you still use to this day?

Well, there's so many, like I said, to be honest, I gained a lot of gifts and nuggets through all this incredible pain and heartache and physical and mental stuff I went through.

I think being grateful for what you've got.

I mean, I'm 19 years post-transplant.

And this year, my birthday, I was like, oh, my God, I could have been dead for, you know, 19 years ago.

I'm so grateful to be here.

So be grateful for what you do have and stop focusing on what you don't have.

And you surrounded yourself with some good support.

Yeah.

Sometimes people don't want to ask for help.

I think that's a very good point you're saying there, because even the people at the hospital said, the ones that don't have much emotional support don't always make it.

So it's really important to have that support network around you, whether it's friends, family, you're reading a book, you're doing something, you've seen a counsellor, you need that emotional support.

Absolutely.

And I know in my nursing world, a lot of our work is done in people that have received diagnosis to varying degrees, and we look after people all the way up to end of life care.

And I often will say, will always say to the patient's families, and there's going to be people that will offer to help, let me know what I can do.

And it's very well-meaning.

And it's just that they don't know what to do.

They'll be the ones that really mean it.

The family's job is to write out a list of jobs and get a little bit of an itinerary going.

Right, we need someone to do the cleaning.

We need someone to do some meals.

We need this.

We need that.

It's a big ask of people that are actually going through the challenge.

You are the ones that are going to know what you need.

There'll be people that will just drop meals off.

They'll just know.

That's just how they're wired.

That's what we do.

You know, there'll be people that will go and do the shopping for you without even a blink of an eye, and they will just sort it out for you.

There'll be someone that will take you to mass.

But then the majority of people have zero idea how they can help.

And I can tell you, it is such a beautiful experience for the person that is like, oh, good.

I can make that meal for them.

Oh, I can go and pick up that dry cleaning.

It's such a gift for the person that is help.

I can do something.

And I did something that's meaningful to that person, that family.

So if you have the wherewithal to think about the jobs that you need doing to outsource, it's a win-win for both.

It makes everybody feel good.

And it also allows that feeling, especially for the folks that have a really hard time with asking for help.

Yes.

To see that help come back in bucket load is very validating of you as a human being and your work.

And it makes you realise in the depths of your own challenges how much people are wanting to be there for you.

Yes.

But sometimes they just need to know what to do.

Yes.

But even that emotional support as well, if they don't help in other ways.

Yes.

That emotional go over and see them and show that you care, show that you're there.

You see your friends in the real friends during these times.

You do.

And I imagine too, I know I cared for a dear friend who was very unwell.

And one of the things that we had to be careful of is who we let allowed near her.

Because some people would bring their baggage to talk about with her.

And it was kind of like what she didn't need.

You're talking about them and not giving us.

About them and their problems because they thought she was kind of there to sit and listen.

We were like, this is not serving her.

You have to move these people on.

Did you have that experience as well?

I did.

Yeah.

I won't say who, but I did.

Yes.

Yes, it's not good.

No.

You don't need any more pressure.

You need something.

And to that point, I think just to kind of round this conversation off is I know some people completely understandably who are not been in these situations before don't react in their way that they would normally because this handling of other people's grief and obviously there's some challenge.

It's a bit of a mind screw.

Yeah.

They don't actually know.

And I'll give you a perfect example.

My beautiful mom, my gorgeous mom, we went to go and visit my auntie who was dying and she was this shell of herself in the bed.

We didn't even recognize her.

And my mom responded in a way that was not what was needed in the moment.

Not long after that, my beautiful mom was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer and mom was amazing in that time.

She was just this beacon of light.

And just so I was enamored by mom.

But in that moment, mom couldn't respond because it was really uncomfortable for her.

And it was a side of mom that is like, wow, I was kind of shocked at how she was responding, but it was just so uncomfortable.

So I think that sometimes we need to allow people, this is really uncomfortable for me and I'm actually not responding in the way that I kind of want to respond.

Yes.

Yes.

So I think we need to offer sometimes people a bit of grace because it-

Yeah, that's true.

They don't know what to say or what to do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's true.

Look, sometimes just sitting with someone is really- My mom used to just sit with me.

Yeah.

I knew she was there.

Yeah.

And let me just say one thing.

The Leukemia Foundation were wonderful.

I had a unit in- Because first I went to the Princess Alexandra and then they found me a unit.

We used to catch the bus to hospital then.

Then they found me a unit closer to Royal Brisbane.

I was in the village there and they had a courtesy bus, luckily, because I could hardly walk.

I mean, or I was in a lot of pain.

Yeah.

So they were wonderful throughout this whole thing and mum lived with me.

But like I said, sometimes she would just- I just knew she was there.

Yeah.

You don't need to say anything sometimes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Silence is often the best tonic, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just be there and just be in that moment.

You don't have to say anything sometimes.

And one question, you know, and knowing, you know, when those times there's just silence is great, you know, having just a hold of a hand or even someone-

Yes, exactly.

I was just thinking of that in my head.

Yes.

And, you know, if someone's physically exhausted, massaging the hand, if, you know-

Exactly, yes.

When you've got a fever and you can't move.

Those days I couldn't even get out of bed.

Yeah.

Can't move.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's right, exactly.

Yeah.

That tactile thing, if that's what the person is receptive to, you know, even I've often said, you know, just, you know, a bit of moisturiser on, you know, the arms and the hands is so soothing.

And that physical connection means so much.

We've had a few people talk about, you know, when they've been really vulnerable in hospital, it's just been the touch of a nurse's hand is a bit of reassurance that that's the thing in the crazy chaos that's going, that's swarming around them.

It's that gentle, we've got you.

Yes.

We've got you.

And so for a friend or a family to be able to just sort of just, we're here for you.

And it's something as simple as that.

And they are the profound moments that people recall.

Oh, exactly.

Yeah.

Beautiful.

Wow.

Well, that's just, oh, Mon, I don't know about you, but I've been getting goosebumps, particularly in this last section.

I think you two could be sisters.

I keep laughing at looking at both of you.

Yeah, I know.

I feel like we've been to the same shop.

I'm glad I'm in the Barter Club yellow and you're in the Cornmeal blue, which was very, very trendy in the late, early 90s.

Yeah.

But this was the colours of most kitchens in the 90s, if you remember, if you were into renovating and decorating.

I had a blue kitchen in one of the houses in Sydney.

Yeah, Cornmeal blue and yellow.

Yeah, this was it.

That's funny you should say that.

Taking me back.

Without even realising it, yes, we renovated our unit and the colours were yellow and blue.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we're taking a bit of a walk back to the 1990s.

Doing a retro.

Yeah.

Beautiful to hear you, Rula.

And for those that want to reach out to you and your book, put it back up on the screen.

I did want to say one thing for the listeners today.

I do have a free e-book if they were interested.

It's called Breaking Barriers.

Rewire your mind and reclaim your power and thrive.

And if they head to my website,

www.transformcounsellingcoaching.com.au And on the homepage at the bottom near the contact form, there's a bunch of links.

One there is Breaking Barriers.

Click on that link and they can fill in the details and get a download of that book.

Fabulous.

Thank you for offering that out to the viewers and the listeners.

That's very generous of you.

Thank you.

Take care, everyone.

Thanks for tuning in to The Grit Diaries once again.

Thank you, Rula, for being here and sharing your story with us.

And no doubt there'll be many that will benefit from hearing from you today.

Thank you so much.

It was my pleasure.

Lovely to see you both.

Thank you.

Thank you, Rula.

Thank you.

Thanks, Mon.

Thanks, Mads.

Thank you for joining us on The Grit Diaries, From Grit to Grace.

If today's story has moved you, share it with someone who needs a little hope.

Remember, from grit, we can find grace.

And from grace, we can find inspiration.

Until next time, look for the joy, keep safe, stay grounded, and never forget that there is a strength within your own story.

Take care.