Season 26, Episode 23 - Shaun Boyce, Bobby Schindler

Summary

David Pyrzenski, founder of CourtMatch.ai, joined the podcast to explain why he built the platform as a player first rather than as a coach or admin. He walks through the member first approach that puts community, matchmaking, and engagement at the center of club management, and shares how CourtMatch fits into the space between simple court reservation systems and full club automation suites.

Key Topics

* David's path from lifelong tennis player to software developer to founding CourtMatch.ai

* Why CourtMatch is built from the member perspective rather than the club admin perspective

* Where CourtMatch sits in the market: more than court reservation, less than full club automation

* Matchmaking, group chats, photos, and the social features that make an app feel like an extension of the community

* The nickel and diming problem with add on modules across the club management space

* Why David believes competitors will start looking more like CourtMatch over time

* How the pickleball and padel booms are reshaping what clubs need from their software

* David's answer to our signature question, if you were king of tennis

Keywords

David Pyrzenski, CourtMatch.ai, club management software, racket club software, racquet club software, member engagement, matchmaking, tennis club software, pickleball club software, padel club software, court reservation, GoTennis podcast, ARA, American Racket Sports Association, Agency Vendor CoFounder

Sound Bites

"I love our direct competitors. I hope they keep raising the bar and keep pushing us and we keep pushing them, because it's only gonna benefit the clubs, the members, everybody's experience."

"It was just like a tool. It wasn't an extension of community, it was just a tool to use. That was what was all missing, that engaging other people and creating that community."

"The competitors out there will all start looking more like CourtMatch over time. All the stuff they're missing is where we're leaning in."

Full YouTube Video: https://youtu.be/Zn001LjjQsU

King of Tennis Video: https://youtu.be/9wWwv42BhMQ

Learn more about David Pyrzenski and CourtMatch.ai: https://courtmatch.ai

Follow CourtMatch on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/courtmatch/

Contact Our Hosts

* Shaun Boyce, RSPA: [email protected] | https://americanracketsportsassociation.com/

* Bobby Schindler, RSPA: [email protected] | https://letsgotennis.com/windermere

* Geovanna Boyce: [email protected] | https://regeovinate.com/

* GoTennis Website: https://letsgotennis.com/

Learn more about the Marc Kaplan Media Excellence Award we (the GoTennis! Podcast) won from USTA Georgia: https://letsgotennis.com/captivate-podcast/gotennis-podcast-wins-the-marc-kaplan-media-excellence-award/

Join Our Community

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Who are you and why do we care?

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Right.

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So ~ I'm a lifelong tennis enthusiast.

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I've been playing ever since like a as a little kid, ~ all the way up through high school

competitively.

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~ and then after that, just kept my love for it and played recreationally everywhere I

could.

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but you know, we all have to work.

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So I got into technology

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and I've been in software with a focus on like consumer behavior and and member behavior

and things like that.

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the for the duration of my career.

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~ and I've always sort of had like an entrepreneurial spirit.

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and so when I had an opportunity to join a team ~ to work on something that married things

I'm very good at, which are you know technology and software as a service, with my

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passion, which is tennis, I jumped at that opportunity and decided to see how we can build

something that is really going to benefit

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~ everybody that plays tennis and everybody that's running a racket facility collectively.

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Okay, so we have seen Bobby and I have been talking to the tennis industry and the racket

sports industry for a a little while now, and we've seen a few different types come

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through with software to save us from ourselves.

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we had one conversation offline with somebody building a a new platform, and we just got

this this feeling like, no, we you don't need to come in and save us, like you're this

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you you've seen everything we have in our industry and you're gonna come in and and do it

better and you don't come across that way, David.

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You come across more along the lines of you're not the tennis coach type, but you're also

not the I'm gonna save you type.

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You're the I'm a player and I wanted a better experience for myself.

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Is that really where it started?

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Because I think you're a member remind me, you're a member of a club

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Yep.

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goal was to improve that club's experience first?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So I had joined a racket club that was a very like white glove type club where the members

really didn't have to do anything.

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The all the programming was provided for them, all the matchmaking and sub-finding and

scheduling, like it was like carte blanche take care of this for you, meet introducing you

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to people and getting you into communities and and basically like the most over-the-top

onboarding experience you could imagine.

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is my was my first club that I I joined and paid for.

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~ and I moved away, so I had to join a new club.

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And the new club I joined was very much like, here's our our app.

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There you go.

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You know?

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And ~ upon using the app, from a member experience, I said, like, well, this this can't be

the best thing that's out there.

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And my initial reaction was like, Let me go research and then bring to the club, like, can

we use this app instead?

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And in my research, I realized like, no, this is the best app that's out there.

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and then that's where my sort of like entrepreneurial spirit took over with my team and

said, like, well, you know, we can provide something better here that's not saving the

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club.

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I'm not gonna tell a club how to better operate, like from a from a ~ club director, GM

perspective.

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That's their that's their domain.

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I'm gonna support them and give them the tools they need.

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and I'm not gonna tell pros like how to be better instructors, like.

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I'm gonna give them the tools to help fill in gaps or things that they need.

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But what I can do is take a member focused approach and basically say, how do we take this

amazing culture and community that you've created in the club and just extend it through

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technology so that if you're asking members to use technology, anyways, it feels like an

extension of the club and it makes them like wanna lean in, helps them find more

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programming, helps them.

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better engage, helps them better communicate together, ~ and really just enhance that that

member experience.

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So to be clear for everybody listening, this is called courtmatch.ai.

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It's called court match.

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That's the URL, excuse me.

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And it is in the club management software space, right?

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So it's more than just a court reservation system, but it's I say less than this you where

I'm going with that.

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It's like more than just court reservation, but less than a giant club automation or North

Star something that handles golf and food and beverage.

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You're in that club management space or does it do even more than that?

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I'm making an assumption there.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, right now, like we like to think of ourselves as this sort of club management

system.

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could we do more?

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You know, sure.

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I mean, anything's possible, but when you look at our roadmap of like what we're building

and our our f prioritization, our focus, it is all more in service of the clubs, the

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members and things like that.

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And we are happy to partner with the bigger systems.

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for like if they're running membership or billing or whatever or you know like happy to

partner with those, have a fully open API, you know, experience, which for people that

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don't know what that means, it means we'll integrate with anything if they will if they're

willing to integrate with us.

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but yeah, that's that's the frame that that we're coming at it from.

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And and Bobby is and I have been talking about APIs and connectivity and I and I drag him

along into technology because he

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he enjoys it but doesn't doesn't always even care about the ins and outs.

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So the the API

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means my system talks to your system and they're happy about it.

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~ but

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bringing Bobby into it, ~ you Bobby have taken a look at this a little bit 'cause you're

looking at from a Windomir perspective and saying, hey, even a

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an HOA level club that has what do you have?

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You got twelve co twelve tennis, six pickleball, and I don't know, eleven hundred members

plus non-members can come in.

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So it's a decent sized club and here in the Atlanta area, there's not a lot of difference

between the country club and the HOA driven club from a racket sports department

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perspective.

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Bobby, you were leaning toward this one recently.

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What about it was the thing that really mattered

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~ from your perspective that you liked.

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I'm like, so we're searching right now.

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Yeah,

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I'm here.

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Yeah, I was getting a lot of breaking up.

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So I was saying this to me because I wasn't getting any bars.

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Our weather today isn't really good.

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No, we're searching.

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Like you said, we're looking for something.

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And, you know, it always falls back to Atlanta.

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Atlanta is an interesting space.

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We have facilities the size of mine that are not do nothing with financials.

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So a lot of them immediately get priced out because they built in the financial aspect of

it, which we don't use.

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The one that we use gives us a lot.

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We just like a little bit more.

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and then, you know, as we were discussing previously, you have some of the people, there's

other people that make decisions and whether, you know, the whole process just gets to be

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more difficult than the actual, we had, everybody had some state.

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were very, we were very spoiled.

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and that we started with courts from day one.

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So since we were new, we got treated like royalty.

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any question we had, so finding the next one, what I would say is, if you're going to a

club such as mine, what do you say to me that says, okay, this is a reason why you want to

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use what we have to offer you?

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~ great question.

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So, you know, first of all, I just want to compliment our quote unquote competitors out

there because they've done a lot to bring technology into Racket Sports in a in a lot of

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great ways.

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and really sort of start us off on this this journey.

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~ I would say like what sets us apart, or like maybe what our core value proposition is,

is is to say, does this thing that you're using

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~ innately have members wanting to engage more because they're using it, does that mean

that they are going to be more involved, they're gonna participate more, they're gonna

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connect more with each other just simply by using this, or is it like facilitating

operations for you, right?

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and so we're taking an approach of like when you think about the member, you think about

what they use daily, right?

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They use like Instagram, they use WhatsApp, they use TikTok.

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They use, ~ they make a haircut reservation or something.

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And they there's certain technology that they're used to using every day and that like

they want to use more of.

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And so that's our approach is like creating something that feels familiar, that is

engaging, that wants that is encouraging them to use it more.

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And by the way, it's facilitating all those operational things that you guys need to run a

club that's important.

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I'd say that that's kind of like how we're different is instead of just being something

that's like, please use this.

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For our club, so that we can work.

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It's like, guess what?

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Good news, we have this for you, which is really gonna like make your experience better.

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So you're gonna allow people to post pictures

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of like they played today.

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So they went out and post a picture.

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So we're creating more of the community feel because people are gonna see themselves more.

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Is that part of, yeah.

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absolutely.

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Great example.

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Another great example would be you know, I've got a match scheduled with with you two guys

on, you know, Thursday of next week and we had a fourth that fell out and we need a sub.

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I got a group right on my app and that's like our favorite people to play with.

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And I just chat at them and I add like plus the match and say, Hey, who can join?

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And they just click join, join the match, we're done.

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Right.

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Like

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So much easier than trying to coordinate over text messages or WhatsApp or whatever,

right?

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Or if you're new to the club, you don't know anybody, and you say, I'd like to play, you

post a match and say, Hey, I'm at this level, I'm look- I want to play mixed doubles.

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I'm, you know, like who wants to play?

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And anybody that's signed up for that can be like, yeah, I'll play the join the match.

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Like so much more easier ~ when you when you share those pictures that you're mentioning.

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And let's say it's because it's part of a program in the system or part of a tournament in

the system.

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then the admin, the director, is gonna get all those pictures and they can now use them

for remarketing or for a newsletter or whatever, right?

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And and put them and so it's like that's all the sort of rich engagement experience that

we want to create.

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Okay, so since you brought it up, you build a newsletter?

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Do you build a newsletter?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Cause I mean, that's one of the silliest it sounds.

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like you said, we laugh and I do want it.

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Yes, we've come a long way from 2018, but we're now at the point where since so many

people got into this space, Hey, I don't want you to necessarily talk poorly about your

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competition, but what, know, what are the differentiators because there's, you know, the

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a court reserve to now there's a bunch of folks get in there.

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And short of a lot of money that you can sit there and market, how are you going to market

what you do?

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I love what you said from the beginning where you said you take a member perspective.

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How do we get them to engage more?

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That from a club, the idea, and that's one of the big things we're looking for is one

spot.

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We're on group me, WhatsApp, Facebook.

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We do a hard copy newsletter.

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I do a newsletter.

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craziness, the about

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we would love to be able to do it from one spot and feel confident that everybody was

getting the message.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And like I said, and this is completely like genuine, is that I I love our competitors and

I keep they hope I hope they keep raising the bar and keep pushing us and we keep pushing

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them.

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Cause what does that mean?

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It means it's only gonna benefit the clubs, the members, everybody's experience is gonna

just keep getting better and better and better the more we and the our competitors keep

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pushing each other.

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Yeah, and that's been one

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of the things, Bobby, we've been talking about is do you have you integrated I'll just use

MailChimp as the example, because building your own CRM for something like that marketing

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system isn't isn't a light haul, as they would say.

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but in this case, trying to find out how much can I do through here?

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Can I get rid of my constant contact because I'm really just using it from this racket

sports perspective?

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Do I need to do do I need to go get string ping?

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And plug that in or do you have text messaging?

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What I saw on your on the site as I was flipping through the member to member group chats,

Bobby, right as I was interrupting there, you'd mentioned they can they can send pictures,

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they can do this, and it there's a there's a social feel to the app itself, right, David?

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Because in a way I picture it is the difference between Google Maps and Waze.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I'll say that ~ as much as I love our direct competitors, I despise our indirect

competitors.

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And that's like WhatsApp and MailChimp and stuff like that.

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Like some of it is necessary.

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I mean, we're never gonna build QuickBooks, right?

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But

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but like the stuff that like people are using, WhatsApp and stuff, it's like, no, let's

get rid of that.

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What's the point?

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Right.

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And so that's the stuff that we wanna, you know, displace and keep keep our ecosystem like

of

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court software and and club software, you know, like a one place for all that stuff.

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That's what everybody's been looking for and hopefully the other thing we talked about

recently, Bobby, was the the nickel and diming because it's all right, so we have your

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court reservation system, but i once you get to adding all the things that you want, all

the pieces, to get it to full club management, you've spent another fifteen dollars a

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month to add this and seventeen dollars to add that, and all of a sudden you've gone from

this what seemed like affordable system to spending

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as much or more as you were spending with the previous

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group that you were working with.

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~ so it's it's interesting to have this conversation looking at court match and saying,

okay, this is you're relatively new in the space, so you're still building, right, David?

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Yeah, what's it's funny, when Bobby was talking about like, hey, why would somebody want

you?

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We've been very blessed in that.

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Like every club we've met with has said, we love this.

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And if you can add this feature or this feature, we'll buy it tomorrow.

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and then the only people that have basically said, like, no, not for us, are people that

say, like, well, unfortunately, ~ we're part of a golf club and they won't let us have our

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own software.

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Those are the only two objections that we've gotten.

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But yeah, I mean, other than that, like I would say ~ when it comes to ~ pricing, as

you're mentioning, like there is there is like a natural set of pricing in the universe, I

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feel like, right?

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Like clubs have a certain budget.

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They and and we gotta work around it.

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You know, ~ we can't nickel and dime people, we can't just keep raising prices forever.

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A lot of these clubs, you know, just w I've heard clubs actually, I've been on calls with

clubs that say,

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We'd love to have this software, but we have zero budget.

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Well, how do we facilitate that?

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How can we get them something they can use?

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where where it's not gonna break the bank for you know?

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So what do you do when I say I have zero budget?

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Like that you can't add something in the

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I know there is a free version out there and it's USTA's free version and I'm blown away

that nobody uses it.

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But strangely enough, nobody seems to use it.

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So there's also a value, an inherent value that we put on paying for something.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So I feel like can you I mean, there's there's proof in the pudding of like reporting,

which we can provide.

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We have a whole big reporting module and we can show how using Court Match you're actually

adding revenue to your club or you're becoming more profitable or whatever is important to

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you from a metrics standpoint.

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but then there's also the subjectivity of like, does this feel like it has enough value

that I'm going to pay for it?

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Because it either

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makes my life easier, makes my members happier, does something that is of a tangible value

where we're gonna pay for it.

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And then if the answer is yes, then people will pay.

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If the answer is no, then you're you probably haven't built something that has product

market fit.

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Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense.

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And just for reference, in thirty seconds I looked up and saw a download on the App Store.

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In the last thirty seconds, I downloaded the Court Match AI app on the iPhone and used the

Google login and I'm in and I'm ready to go.

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And I that's

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fantastic.

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Like that's not I I want to point out to s to the listeners, to the audience, people out

there, that's not easy to do.

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To just make things

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seamless and easy.

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And so many of the others out there there's clunky and it's it's not easy.

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In this case, I really appreciate that because it's it's it seems like a little thing,

like just make it easy for me.

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But technologically, David, you know as well as anybody, that's no small task.

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No, it I mean it's not.

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I mean, you know, 'cause you have to go like for the for iPhone, for example, I'm not

gonna bore your audience, but there's like they make you jump through hoops of like

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approvals and reviews before they'll even publish the thing.

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~ so you it does take some work.

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Yeah, no, and we and we appreciate that 'cause that's that's the c one of the conveniences

that we're looking for as tennis players, but then also from a perspective of the coach or

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the admin on the other end.

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I remember quartz.com with courts with a K, as we call it,

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that that Bobby was ingrained in for a while.

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It was it was the same way.

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It just worked.

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And it was great.

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And it didn't last and I and I get it and market forces and whatever.

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But it was it was the kind of thing on both ends

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That you could look at as an admin and go, Yep, I see what I'm supposed to be looking at.

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Where some of the others, you look at it and go, All right, where do I even start?

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Like where do I begin?

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And that's another thing I appreciate about appreciate about what you guys are doing,

David.

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that's great, thank you.

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~ so what's the we've gone through uniqueness and we've gone through you.

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What is I was gonna say the the market that you're getting to look at from the outside

perspective, saying the non-tennis coach perspective, meaning you're never gonna use your

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own system to run a club.

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Mm-hmm.

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You didn't really build it for yourself as a as a coach, as a as an admin, you built it

for yourself as a player.

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This is the experience that I want.

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Are we gonna see more of that?

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And I'm asking you as a technologist, I guess.

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Are do you think we might see more of that in the industry?

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As Bobby points out, things are consolidating now.

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The entire pickleball industry is consolidating and becoming more professionalized.

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And maybe some of these some of these softwares decide to be successful or not.

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We all understand that.

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But what do we think why you jump in now?

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I guess the real question is why now?

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~ why now is you know, it just ~ for me, ~ I would say the it was a factor of me wanting a

better experience and then saying I'm sure everybody else wants a better experience.

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And ~ just personally and my point ~ in my life, it was a good time to start this.

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and then I think I've just been I've I've been fortunate that you know the pickleball huge

boom has sort of leveled off.

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And now those clubs are really looking at like, okay, ~ it's not growing crazy anymore.

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So how do we become more operationally efficient?

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How do we keep our members from leaving, looking to solutions like ours?

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but then we also do have the big boom of Padel, you know, globally that's starting to make

inroads into the states, and so we'll benefit from that.

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so I think all of that, you know, timing is right.

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And then when you start factoring in,

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Clubs having to, you know, they were they were a tennis club before and now they're a

tennis club and a pickleball club and a Padel club and they're like, man, how do we make

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heads and tails of like we've got limited space?

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How many courts should we convert?

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Is that gonna annoy our members?

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Like, are they gonna be mad that they're we've striped their courts?

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Are they gonna be mad that I can hear this clanking of pickleball next to me?

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Like, how do we program around this?

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angry.

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They are.

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These are all problems right for solving that ~ w technology can absolutely help.

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Yeah, and that's Bobby.

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you brought up a couple of times David, I would love to know, you said you wanted

something that you were, what was it that these other systems didn't have that when you

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looked at it, because I like that perspective and Shaun and I have been talking about the

chicken and the egg on a couple of different topics over the last few days.

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So this is so relevant to everything that we've been talking about over whether it be how

to hire, how to grow programs, whatever.

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So what was it that you looked at and said, I'd like to change this?

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Yeah.

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So

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~ okay, I think it was when I used the applications and I used a couple I asked after I

checked one, I went and checked others.

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It was very much like here's how you can in most cases just reserve a court, or here's how

you can maybe also sign up for a a program, like a clinic or something, right?

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And that was the extent of it.

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None of it was like, here's how you connect with other players, here's how you you know,

get more involved in the club, here's like what you're missing out on, and like the really

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fun stuff, the social stuff that like you could become involved in.

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It it was just like a tool.

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It w it wasn't an extension of community, it was just a tool to use.

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And so that was for me what was all missing is like that engaging other people and

creating that community ~ that I felt

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could be served.

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And I'll tell you, you think you ask where things are going.

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I imagine ~ that the the the competitors out there will all start looking more like court

match over time.

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I do.

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And it's and it's just because they've already got the great groundwork done.

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Like all the stuff they're missing is where we're leaning in.

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So I imagine they're good they're gonna start looking more like us over time and that will

be a great compliment.

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That's kind of the big three argument, right?

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Where Rafa says that Roger pushed him and Roger says that Novak pushed him and that that's

where I picture your appreciation of the competitors is we're not we're not even looking

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at stealing ideas, we're just looking at keeping up with everything going on and looking

in and thinking, yeah, well we should be more of community rather than just a simple tool.

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We should do more than just connect into QuickBooks.

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Why can't I see all my data here?

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Why can't I connect with another member there?

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What tournaments are going on?

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What programming is happening?

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How can I connect with the other members and share my pictures and make it a better

experience?

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But most I would guess most of the others are maintaining their lane, so to speak, meaning

this is what we do, let's just make sure we're really good at it.

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Do you think that lives on?

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So I that's not fair for me to answer in the sense that like I'm not in their boardroom,

I'm not in their executive meetings, I don't know what their focus is.

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But I can tell you because I've had like, you know, investors reach out to me and ask me

questions about like, well, where would you go?

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What would you do?

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and so there is very much of like, Hey, let's create this like profitable, sustainable

business where like we don't have to grow at all costs, like we can make money as a

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business and just keep doing what we're doing really well.

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there's another option which is like, hey, let's try to get into tangential things.

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Like, can we can we kind of make a system that like supports golf too and like take over

the whole club?

323

Can we can we try to go after like you know mind body and and provide a system to every

little yoga studio out there?

324

Right?

325

Like so there's so many places that people could take their technology and go with it.

326

~ ki should we internationalize, right?

327

Like

328

Like imagine like a if you are Court Reserve and you're like, We're really great at what

we do, ~ let's go localize our platform in Portuguese and go in Brazil, right?

329

Maybe that's where they're going.

330

So I don't know where every one of our competitors are going, what they're doing, but for

sure they're thinking about it.

331

Yeah, and that's the the Netflix question, right?

332

Is how do you manage another location and expand in that way?

333

And is that a good idea?

334

That that's the that's the maintain your lane that I wonder.

335

Like, okay, this is the one thing we do.

336

Instead of going tangential, like you said, instead of expanding, let's make sure we do

pro shop, let's make sure we have all these extra things.

337

Why don't we just add French and we'll go we'll go try to plug it in in Paris, right?

338

That's

339

su that seems a little bit easier.

340

Except that often here in the States we assume everybody in the rest of the world operates

somewhere similarly to the way we do, which is probably a big mistake from a business

341

perspective.

342

True.

343

Yeah.

344

Well, here's my bringing endorsement having how many of these conversations we've had over

the years, Shaun.

345

I think the biggest difference and as Shaun said, I was pretty on the ground with courts.

346

You look at it from a completely different perspective and I welcome it as far as your you

look at it from the user experience.

347

Everybody else tries to figure out what does the club need and forgets about that the

member is really who's driving the club.

348

And so by identifying how to make the member happy, because I would, my, my harp was over

while they were creating pro shops and we have to do the financials.

349

I was, I want a newsletter and I want people to be able to post pictures.

350

I want to do something that's the binding of the community.

351

So the fact that you've taken a completely different perspective to how you built this is

a huge differentiator.

352

Like not easy.

353

I still not easy.

354

Don't get me wrong.

355

It's because you still got to get in front of lot of phone calls.

356

lot of money to prove that.

357

But that to me is if you just listen to differentiator right there, it's the perspective

at which it is built.

358

You looked at it from the how is the user looking at it?

359

Everybody looked at it.

360

Obviously, if users let's make it simple, but not what they wanted.

361

They looked at it from what the club would either perceive they needed or wanted.

362

And clubs are different.

363

It's hard to pigeonhole a club and say this is going to be what everybody needs.

364

And then you

365

No, go ahead.

366

I'm sorry, Dave.

367

You're absolutely right.

368

And it's funny because I'll have I've probably talked to, I don't know, I'm I used to say

200, it's probably now 300 different clubs.

369

And everybody does something a little bit different.

370

And everybody has a sort of a little bit different ethos or philosophy around things.

371

And and I'll to be honest, like we made some I don't want to say mistakes, but like we

prioritized things early that like I we thought was gonna be a a huge, you know, feature

372

that people would want.

373

Because we talk to some clubs and then other clubs are like, we can't use that.

374

We don't want to use that.

375

That's not of interest too.

376

I'll give you a great example.

377

So I'm personally really good friends with the pros at my club.

378

you know, they're sort of my age, you know, this kind of thing.

379

And and I ask them, how do you make all your money?

380

They Well, we make money by our lessons and our clinics and stuff.

381

That's how we make money.

382

I go, Well, sometimes I see you just kicking around here, not doing anything.

383

Like, and I've asked you, I say, Can I get a lesson?

384

You go, I'm too busy.

385

But then I see you just like hanging out.

386

I go,

387

What why don't you like make your availability public for well not public, but like for

the members?

388

We can see you've had an opening and just go grab it and or like you could even send a

push out and say, like, I'm I'm open, like and people can just go grab a spot and they go,

389

That'd be amazing.

390

Like we I'm gonna go tell the director right now that we need to add, you know, court

match so we can do that.

391

And I'm like, guys, go build this, right?

392

This is gonna be the thing.

393

And then I talk to another club and they're like, we don't want people booking directly

with instructors, no way.

394

And and I'm like, okay, so really I I am just a member.

395

I don't know anything about ragged clubs apparently.

396

~ what I think the instructors would like the the clubs don't like.

397

And so there is still a balance of like we built this great this functionality, but then

you know what we had to do?

398

We had to go grip build the ability for ~ directors to turn it off because they didn't

want it, right?

399

So things like that.

400

Everything's toggled.

401

Exactly.

402

But like

403

I don't I don't need that.

404

Or Bobby, we were talking about something with our new program with the agency, which

David and Courtmatch are also vendor co-founders of the agency, which is coming out soon,

405

is maybe the pros want something, but when the club is paying for it, the club doesn't

want the pro to have it.

406

So there's there's gotta be those toggles.

407

There's gotta be that balance between the software, what people have access to.

408

So that's a

409

That's another major thing that we all realize, which is there might be one main reason we

choose a software, but it might be the opposite for somebody else.

410

That's true.

411

Bobby, you got anything else for David before I hit him King of Tennis?

412

No, I will definitely get him Patrick's phone number so we can get this thing going.

413

Because like I said, I like all the keywords we're talking about lately, pathways, huge.

414

How do you how to keep people give them the and I love the fact you're addressing it from

the member perspective rather than what is perceived the club wants or needs.

415

Awesome.

416

so court court match in the right place right now.

417

But David, we've got one last question, which is our favorite question, and it's a lot of

fun to see some people squirm trying to come up with an answer and others ~ are ready and

418

they've got a great idea for what they're gonna do.

419

But the question is if you were king of tennis and this means for the whole world or just

for California or just your club, social, professional from any perspective.

420

And no I won't help you narrow it down.

421

You gotta choose what you care

422

about, but if you were king of tennis, is there anything you would do or change?

423

So where I got stuck on this question, and so I'll I'll sort of answer it.

424

where I got stuck on this question

425

was trying to figure out like that everyone says tennis has a big barrier to entry, right?

426

and like that's why like participation isn't like on the rise as crazy as other sports, as

like a barrier to get started.

427

And so I tried to think to myself, like, what is an analogous sport?

428

Right.

429

And the reason I struggled with this is because

430

You know, I I thought about golf at first.

431

And then I thought, but with golf, you could literally go play by yourself.

432

You could go to a driving range.

433

Like you don't need another person.

434

But with tennis, uniquely, you need another person out there with you to even get started.

435

Right?

436

Like, I'm sorry, no one's just gonna go hit against the wall.

437

Like, you need another person to get started.

438

And so I was thinking to myself, like,

439

so if I could be king of tennis, how would I make it where it's like,

440

it's it's easier to jump in, it's easier to get started.

441

It doesn't seem like such an investment.

442

and I don't have the answer to it.

443

I think some of the things that people are doing with like using red balls and and things

like that instead of like, you know, ~ tournament balls to get started, might have some

444

promise, might be pretty cool.

445

I'm not really sure.

446

~ and then I think about the youth.

447

and I think about like, you know, youth is ~ never afraid.

448

They're not afraid to look bad.

449

Like adults

450

I think part of the reason adults don't want to go play tennis is because they just don't

want to look like they suck, right?

451

versus like even

452

in a clinic, right?

453

Even if I never played tennis before.

454

come out to a clinic.

455

It's like, then all these other people in the clinic are gonna see I suck.

456

And then you're like, well, then do a private lesson.

457

Well, that's really expensive.

458

So like if you think about like getting youth started stuff, I'm king of tennis.

459

I would say, hey, USTA, and I'm probably like this probably could be a good business, and

I'm gonna just give it out there to send anyone who wants to start it.

460

Why don't you create like a vending machine to put at public courts that has a racket and

a can of balls?

461

And so like anybody that's just go try, like two kids go, Hey, let's just go try this

tennis thing.

462

There's a vending machine.

463

You take the racket out, you use it, you put it back, it doesn't charge your card or

whatever, and then you you buy a can of balls or something, or or maybe they're like

464

pressurized or deep ~ no no pressure balls or something.

465

And like it you don't even need equipment at that point, right?

466

You just got like a way to quickly get

467

Equipment, quickly play, see if it's for you.

468

And you don't end up feeling embarrassed or you know, it feels like easy to get into.

469

~ maybe something like that.

470

I don't, I don't know.

471

Bobby?

472

Believe it or there's somebody developing a vending machine.

473

That's already, he's not giving rockets,

474

but he's got, and the other one, David, the proliferation of walls, and Shaun and I both,

we both spent a lot of time on walls, but simulators are coming, are coming in a big way.

475

And like you said, it's a good way for the beginner to kind of cheat the curve, not let

people see that they're trying to get better until they can get into a drill.

476

And then it becomes, you know, it's also the way to get better without showing people, I'm

spending this much time on a tennis court.

477

So, you know, there's a lot of validity of that.

478

How do you simplify it?

479

It's the earliest form to get people playing.

480

And that's the exciting part about technology.

481

And it is coming to tennis.

482

And I think paddle and pickleball have contributed to that because tennis has got to its

game to compete.

483

you know, let's see where the next five years takes us.

484

But I think you're going to see open ended and outdoor malls, simulators, as a walk up and

to go, you know, learn how to play tennis against a wall that's going to talk to you and

485

give you points for hitting it.

486

it's, it's,

487

it's, it's coming.

488

It's all coming.

489

So, real quick on that, I was also thinking about this idea, and I'm sure somebody else is

already thinking about it doing it, and I hope they are, and good, good job.

490

and that is, you know, with golf, there was a huge interest when top golf came out because

it was fun, it made it lighthearted, there's targets, it was silly, it was great.

491

The from a business perspective, it didn't do well, and there there's a whole case study

out there about that.

492

But the top tracer is even better because now your local golf courses can add top tracer.

493

And it's essentially top golf, but at your local driving range, right?

494

It tells you like how far you're hitting it and the speed and your swing and all this kind

of stuff, right?

495

What if these public private tennis clubs set up a court that was like a ball machine with

top tracer technology, and it would tell you like you just had a 100 mile an hour serve,

496

or you just like had a super great top spin forehand, or like you kind of make it like top

golf ish, where you're not necessarily

497

needing to play against somebody.

498

I'm going to give you Craig Robertson's phone number and talk to him

499

just to get him excited that you're a believer in what he's doing.

500

This all exists.

501

So it's

502

just getting it out there.

503

So you're now in it.

504

That's what said.

505

It's exciting.

506

Where are you in California?

507

I'm in SoCal, like Orange County.

508

Okay, well, go look up Tyler Kelly in San Diego and go see what you're talking about.

509

Okay, I'm gonna go down to Racket X

510

in August, so hopefully he's down there.

511

Yeah.

512

I'm going to come too, but no, mean, literally Tyler's in your backyard.

513

So, he's, he's a,

514

I will tennis social.

515

He's got a simulator that is what you're looking for and does

516

all that gives you speeds.

517

You can basically get a UTR ranking out of it.

518

So that's how, and it's a big deal because you nailed it.

519

I mean, people go play on a golf simulator.

520

It might, you're not walking 18, but you're getting a score at the end with tennis.

521

When you hit out the wall, it's personal satisfaction.

522

Well, now they're giving you numbers.

523

They're going to, you're going to walk out of there with an achievement level and

hopefully you can do leagues even for beginners, you know, how many targets.

524

So it's all, it's an exciting time because it's all coming, but I will get you Tyler's

contact information.

525

Since he's so close, you can go down and see him.

526

I said, he's, he's launching in the next month.

527

Love it.

528

And the gamification I think is a little bit of the target because I remember

529

the what was it, the golf simulator with the ball where you roll it and you hit and

everybody

530

just kind of the top score idea, right?

531

Top well, I don't remember what it was called.

532

So it was called top golf, right?

533

But it was like the video game thing with the the trackball.

534

Golden tea, thank you.

535

Thank you.

536

And that like

537

that kind of concept, you can't put that you know, you can't put the tennis version in a

bar.

538

Like you could with Golden Tea, that just are those things who were just used all the

time.

539

But if we could gamify it a little bit and somebody going for the top score like spaced

invaders, and you're

540

you're trying to do this tennis thing and you can play and it's fun, then you're less

worried about looking ridiculous because anybody who tried to play tennis on the Wii

541

realized it had nothing to do with actual tennis.

542

It was

543

figuring out how to play the game itself.

544

It wasn't I tried to play Wii golf one time, I'm like, this thing's just wrong.

545

It's just wrong.

546

That that ball was going straight, trust me.

547

Like it

548

didn't didn't really it didn't really help my game, but it got me thinking about golf and

got me excited about it.

549

And the only one I'd last thing I'll say, David, what about chess?

550

I know it's not a sport technically.

551

I think chess might be another idea like tennis where I need somebody else, and if they're

not my level, one of us feels ridiculous, and it's a hard thing to learn.

552

And it's a thing where you don't there's no wall for chess.

553

But when you said there's nothing really like it, I thought of that was the thing I that

came to my mind, even though it's not sport related.

554

Well let's hope it's not chess because I don't see them growing right now either.

555

Yeah.

556

Hey, but here's the funny part.

557

They've adapted.

558

Go to a bar.

559

There's a restaurant that just opened it.

560

They have an outdoor big piece chess set.

561

So

562

it's an adoption.

563

Is it ever going to reach what we want it to pretend us now?

564

But they've had to adapt because you're right.

565

It's something that's dying.

566

So let's put it out, make it where it looks like it's fun because you got these big pieces

that the kids are as big as and they move them around.

567

So that's the introduction to chess now.

568

So it's good that everybody is

569

Hopefully in the same space, we got to make it better.

570

How do we make it better, more accessible, more fun for the users?

571

And again, I think that you guys identified that and continued success.

572

Perfect.

573

Well, I love it.

574

David, thank you so much for taking the time.

575

I really appreciate it.

576

Bobby, as always, that's fantastic.

577

And we will follow up David because he is courtmatch.ai, is actually a co founder, vendor

co founder of the agency, which is an American Racket Sports Association product coming

578

out soon.

579

And we're excited about talking about that in the future.

580

So we will be in touch with David, of course.

581

Anyone interested in what

582

He's doing and taking a look at it.

583

It is courtmatch.ai.

584

I'll put all the links in the show notes and everywhere it needs to be and make sure

everybody knows how to find us.

585

But gentlemen, I appreciate the time.

586

Thank you so much for being here.

587

Thanks, guys.

588

Thanks guys.

589

That's right.