I met Gary in a Spanish class in Mexico City. I didn’t learn much Spanish, but I did make a friend who was riding a bicycle from Alaska to Patagonia. We talk about that, his old life on oil rigs, and eating guinea pig for breakfast.

Follow Gary Clarke on Instagram @gary_clarke

(This episode was originally released on 11/05/2025.)

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Thank you for listening, please do it again, but while eating guinea pig.

Onefjef is produced, edited & hosted by Jef Taylor.

Hola, mis amigos y amigas.

Es Jef.

¿Qué onda?

How are you?

As always and forever, I hope you are thriving.

I looked it up.

There is unfortunately no word for thriving in Spanish.

The closest I can get is like super bien or muy bien,

but it's not really the same.

It doesn't feel the same.

And, uh, yeah, I'm not here to suggest that another word be

added to the Spanish language.

I am not here to suggest that because there are plenty, plenty of words.

But if there is some sort of a list of words waiting to be added to the Spanish

language, I hope that thrive is on it.

Maybe thrivendo or thrivo or something.

I don't know.

It's-- You figure it out.

Anyway, this here episode is the last of the onefjef re-released episodes for

the hiatus of twenty twenty-six, which means I have to stop procrastinating

and start editing these interviews that I recorded a while back.

I will.

I must.

I will.

It has been nice to have a bit of, uh, downtime, a bit of a break,

though, and it feels like it flew by.

I mean, I've been in this new apartment for a month today, which is

crazy to me, not necessarily to you.

I mean, maybe to you, but to me, it feels like just yesterday

that I moved in and enjoyed my terrace for the very first time.

And now thirty days or thirty-one days have passed.

Time it does, don't it?

Yes, it do.

And what episode might you be re-releasing this week, Jef?

Well, I'm glad you asked.

I will be re-releasing the interview with my friend Gary Clarke, who I met a

year and a half ago when I first visited Mexico City, and who was at the time in

the midst of an epic bike ride from Alaska to the southern tip of South America.

This interview wasn't recorded until November of last year, though,

at which point he was in Peru.

And now he's back home in the UK, still thriving, of course.

There's really no way to describe what Gary did as anything other than,

like, amazing, incredible, etc. But Gary doesn't really see it that way.

He just wanted to travel, and he decided that a bike was the best way to do it.

He talks about that and many more things in the interview that follows.

He's a super interesting guy who's had an interesting life both on

a bike and not on a bike, and you're gonna enjoy this interview.

If you've already heard it, you'll enjoy it more the second time.

I insist.

I insist.

So my friends, here is my interview with Gary Clarke

recorded on November 3rd, 2025.

I, um, ordered breakfast the other day and, uh, all I heard was, uh,

fritter, and up until then I'd had chicken fritters, so I thought,

"This, yeah." And, uh, I ended up with quarter of a, um, fried guinea pig.

And I was like, "Yeah." Right, but they eat a lot of guinea pig down there.

They like guinea pig.

Yeah, they love it.

Did you try it?

Love it?

Well, I had to.

It was, uh, basically what I ordered that breakfast.

Yeah, there's not a lot of meat on it, surprisingly.

Right, right, right.

Was it good?

Uh, no.

So, uh, yeah, most of it ended up on the, um, side dish.

This is episode 23 of onefjef.

The number 23 has an uncanny way of showing up in

science, nature, and mystery.

Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes in their DNA, and the Earth is

tilted at about 23 degrees on its axis, giving us seasons.

It's said that blood takes roughly 23 seconds to circulate through the body,

and the 23rd hour, 11:00 PM, marks the final hour before a new day begins.

These patterns help give rise to the 23 enigma, the belief that

this number appears suspiciously often and carries hidden meaning.

Hello, my friends.

How are you?

Good?

I hope that's a yes.

If not, keep listening.

This podcast is about to make you feel better.

Why, you ask?

Because today's guest is Gary Clarke.

Gary Clarke is a British long-distance cyclist currently

attempting to ride around the world.

Right now, he's pedaling from Alaska all the way to the southern tip of

Chile, continuing a journey that's already taken him across Australia,

through Southeast Asia, India, Japan, and into the mountains of Nepal.

Before turning to life on the road, Clarke worked on offshore oil rigs and platforms,

a career he left behind to pursue a slower, more deliberate way of seeing

the world from the saddle of a bicycle.

Sometimes you meet a person and you just feel like you'll know them forever.

And that was how I felt after I met Gary in Mexico City earlier this year.

We were in a Spanish class together, which was incidentally the same class

where I met the couple who I had dinner with in St. Louis on my road

trip, episode nine, if you're curious.

I didn't learn much in that class.

I don't think Gary did either.

But I met some great people, and I'll take great people over

knowledge any day of the week.

We had a fairly immediate connection, Gary and I. We share a similar

sense of humor and perspective on life and the way the world works.

And he's just a really likable guy.

We did a bunch of sightseeing together, ate some amazing food together, and

I actually ended up letting him crash for a couple nights in the extra

bedroom in my Airbnb, so we could go on this amazing hot air balloon

ride over the Teotihuacan pyramids.

The interesting thing about Gary is that he barely talked about his bike trip.

Most of the people in the Spanish class we were in didn't even know that he was doing

this until I mentioned it, and then they were like, "Whoa, really?" And I think

it's because Gary doesn't really think what he's doing is all that remarkable.

It's just something he likes to do, so he's doing it.

But it is remarkable, as I'm sure most of you would agree.

So I'm grateful that he was willing to take some time out from this epic trip

of his to talk to me from the guest house he was staying at in Huaraz, Peru.

And just FYI, due to Peruvian internet issues, uh, we had to have

this conversation over WhatsApp, so the sound quality isn't perfect.

But you'll get over it.

You probably won't even notice it.

Or maybe you wouldn't have noticed it had I not said anything, and

now that I have said something, you'll be listening for it.

So maybe just disregard.

Thank you as always and forever to my new Patreon subscribers.

Actually, there's just one since the last episode, but everything

helps, so thank you to my new and continuing Patreon subscribers

for your support of the podcast.

I'll be putting some photos of Gary and I in Mexico City in the

Patreon feed for your enjoyment.

And there's another bonus episode for you on the way.

If you yourself would like some visual aids to enhance your experience of

this podcast or if you'd just like to help support the show, please do go to

patreon.com/onefjef and sign up for as little as five dollars a month, and you

too will get access to all the amazing bonus content I've put out there.

And you'll get street cred.

patreon.com/onefjef.

And whether you're a Patreon subscriber or not, I appreciate you

and your magical ears, which you are using right now to hear my voice.

I don't know much about how ears work, but the little I do know leads me to

believe that it's kind of miraculous, this ability to hear, and I'm glad you're

using this miracle to listen to onefjef.

So thank you for listening.

Thank you for being here.

Here's Gary Clarke talking to me from a guesthouse in Huaraz, Peru

Yeah, I messed around on, um, ChatGPT.

I had to get, um, something together for an insurance company.

And then I, um, managed to go out, get some, um, camping gas and a few

supplies ready for the off tomorrow.

All right.

Well, I think this will actually work.

It's not ideal, but, uh, Peruvian internet is not known for

its high-quality connections.

Absolutely, mate.

We'll, we'll, we'll work round it.

Right.

So Gary Clarke, it's so good to talk to you again.

It's been, uh, what?

About eight months or so since we met.

It has been, Jef, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Very good memories.

Yeah, indeed.

Yeah.

So Gary and I met, uh, I was in Mexico earlier this year, and we met, um, in a

Spanish class actually, um, that wasn't a very good Spanish class as we've, Gary

and I have joked about many, many times.

I forget, I forget what the one joke was about.

This is better than that thing.

We just wanted to know how to order tacos, so.

Yeah, yeah.

And instead- We needed phrases.

Yeah, and we were getting this, that, and the… Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

We were getting- But- … some more advanced things.

Um, so, so yeah, it wasn't the best class in terms of learning Spanish, but in terms

of, like, making friends, it was great.

Uh, and then me, me and Gary went on a magical air balloon ride in Mexico by

the pyramids outside of Mexico City.

That was kind of an amazing day, actually, and we didn't die.

We didn't die, and it was magnificent.

The views was incredible.

Uh, and I was amazed how many balloons they put up in the air.

Yeah, there was one that crashed recently too, I saw.

Um- Was there?

Yeah, I think I sent you- Yeah … I thought I sent you the link, but yeah.

Um, yeah, somebody died, so, uh, at least we didn't- Oh, okay … didn't, we didn't,

we didn't get on that one, so that's good.

That was good.

That is always a positive when you make it back.

So where are you right now?

Where do I find you right now?

I'm in Huaraz, which is the, um, basically the climbing and high peak

hiking sort of, um, epicenter for the high peaks around this area.

What, what big city is it near?

Is near anything I would know?

Well, it's close… It's inland from Lima, really.

Lima being on the coast.

Right.

Right.

And then Huaraz is, um, pretty much as soon as you see the, um,

snow-capped mountains, um, this is in the foothills of that.

So it's pretty.

It is stunning, yeah.

It's lovely.

Um, and there's a lot of, uh, international, uh, backpackers and,

uh, people that have come probably specifically for the climbs.

Right.

Right, right.

So, um, tell me, I mean, I mean, I know, but, like, tell my listeners,

uh, about what, what, what kind of trip you're on here, your biking trip here.

Yeah, yeah.

I basically, uh, COVID, um, put a good couple of years gap in between

my five-year riding around the world.

Um, and, um, to look for a decent, uh, start to finish ride, I decided to, um,

pick the Alaska to Patagonia, um, Ushuaia in Ar- Argentina route, which really

is an unbroken cycle ride continuous through the, uh, North and South and

Central Americas up until you get to Panama and the Darien Gap, which you

either boat or you, in my case, fly over.

Oh, you took a plane.

I was wondering.

I did.

I was… Yeah, I was the wrong time of year, Jeff.

I basically, if I was a little bit sooner, um, the sun would've been out, and, um, it

probably would be quite a pleasant ride.

Uh, for my time of year, it was just gonna be a choppy, uh, rather unpleasant-

Mm … I hope this ends- Right, vomit

sort of ride.

Right, vomit inducing as they say.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Um, I, uh… So you started in, where in Alaska did you start, and when was that?

Yeah, I started up in, um, the northernmost, um, accessible part of, um,

Alaska, which is Deadhorse, Prudhoe Bay.

Okay.

Uh, which is, yeah, is pretty much, um, only really accessible because,

uh, of the oil that is up there.

Of course.

Um, yeah.

And then you cycle down a supply line which pretty much shadows the

pipeline running from Deadhorse down to Valdez, um, which is where it's,

um, shipped out all the time to.

Right, the giant pipeline and all that.

And when- Yeah … when was, when was that?

When did you start?

Yeah.

Uh, I started about as early as you can in the season, which was

around about the 9th of June.

Uh, and I was about the third person out that year.

The 9th of June of last year.

Of last year, yes.

Of 2024.

Yep.

Okay.

And then you're planning to get to where by the end of the trip?

Where's the, where's the final destination?

Final destination is the southern tip down by, uh, uh, Tierra del Fuego.

Yeah, yeah.

Tierra del Fuego.

That's it.

Yeah.

Uh, and Ushuaia is the, um, the, the, the name of the town.

They also use it, um, uh, for a destination or a leaving point for

the, um, Antarctic, um, cruises.

Right.

Right, right.

And when do you-- How far from there are you?

When do you think you'll get there?

Well, I did have a quick look.

I'm, uh, I'm roughly about 7,500 kilometers- Jesus … which, um,

yeah, even with the Andes in, in between, it's gonna be a good, um,

maybe January/February, um- Right, but it'll be summer though, so.

It will.

Hopefully, it starts getting warmer.

The only thing is the, um, winds, which- Right … hope- I'm kinda hoping are in

my favor going, uh, from north to south.

I mean, I had a-- I dated a woman who lived in Chile for 13

years in, um, what city was it?

It was, uh, Punta Arenas, which is right down there in Patagonia.

And her big-- She's triggered by the wind now because it's so w-

it's like a constant gale-force wind down there according to her.

So just preparing you, Gary, because it may be- Yeah

it may be windy.

Much appreciated, Jeff.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, um, I have ridden the reverse, um, from Ushuaia to, um,

funnily enough, this town, Araz.

Uh, and then I, um, returned and got back to Lima and then

flew into, uh, New Zealand.

Uh, that was the first part of my ride.

Oh, so you've already r- kind of done this part of the trip, but just backwards?

I have.

This is roughly as far north as I got, um, 10 years ago.

So this is part of a, what?

A bigger, a grander, a grander scheme of g- biking across the entire world?

Yeah.

I started really, I was gonna end in Australia, um, 'cause I did go

through the points system, uh, to enter and emigrate to Australia.

Um, however, during the ride, I, um, realized that it was

such a fantastic lifestyle.

Um, and I got less and less, uh, interested in going back to my former job,

which I, you know, prior to the cycling I was, um, it was quite important to me.

Right.

Right, right.

So when did you decide to do this, um, incredible biking

around the world to a degree?

It was a good 10 years ago.

Um, and I set off with the intention of it being a, um,

six-month, um, cycle ride basically.

I'd saved South America as a big trip.

Uh, so I looked at, um… I was working off shore at the time, and,

um, I was looking at it and I thought, well, there's no train routes.

It'll all be by buses, which I didn't really fancy.

And then I thought about a motorbike, uh, but I've got no real history of

riding a motorbike or maintaining one, and I thought that sounds

like a disaster waiting to happen.

Right.

So, uh, I basically trialed a fold-up bike in Burma for three weeks, having

flown into Bangkok and bought one.

Uh, and, uh, yeah, I was like, this is doable.

So then, um, it was just gonna be a six-month cycle

trip, uh, back to Australia.

Uh, but by the time I got there I thought I'd just as well cycle round Australia

whilst I've got the, uh, the visa.

Right.

Uh, and then during the, those two years, uh, I was like, yeah, Japan might be nice.

Uh, and then I… Southeast Asia, uh, Northern India, uh, Kazakhstan,

the rest of the St- You've done all these, you've biked across all

these countries, all these places?

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah, yeah.

Did you train before you started this whole adventure

or did you just start doing it?

Yeah.

I, um, I wasn't much of a cyclist.

Um, uh, and probably even when I'm not cycling around the world, I…

Cycling's not something I, um, think, "Oh, I'll get on the bike." Huh.

Um, so I just find it the best way to travel.

The right pace, you see things, you interact with people.

Um, you're not trying to just get from A to B and then do stuff when you get to B.

Right.

Your journey starts when you set off in the morning.

Uh, you get some wonderful camping spots.

Um, yeah, there's a lot of positives.

It does keep you fit.

Obviously it's good for your mental and, um, physical health.

Sure.

Sure.

So yeah, I, um, hadn't done a great deal, but I was trying to keep myself a

little bit active on the treadmill and a few things whilst working offshore.

Otherwise you can, um, you can get a bit drawn into 16, 17-hour days.

Yeah.

Uh, and a lot of that can be in and around a computer.

Sure.

Yeah.

So- Tell me about it.

Um- Yeah.

Uh, so, so you just have been biking and then wherever you feel like

kinda stopping, if you're like in the middle of nowhere, you just

pitch a tent and, and set up and, and sleep there, wherever it is?

Well, some, some countries favor or lean to it a little bit better than others.

Some, uh, the Colombia and Ecuador, for example, of j- a,

a lot of it was, um, fenced in.

Right.

So if you get to that sort of s- nor- um, the North Island

in New Zealand was the same.

Um, I don't wanna jump over a fence to put a tent up.

Right.

Right, right.

So you try to get, you know, you try to get to either, um, a designated, um,

camp spot or, um, y- y- you look for accommodation, which was affordable,

obviously, for Ecuador and Colombia.

Right.

Right.

I mean, it's a very inexpensive way to travel, I'd imagine.

You know, you're, you're not paying for any of the buses, uh- Yeah

trains or whichever else.

Right.

Uh, there's no fuel involved.

Um, you know, y- you eat cheaper probably than you would even if you

were, um, you know, backpacking.

For sure.

So, um- For sure … you know, the h- the costs are definitely kept down.

I mean, are you tired?

Uh, funnily enough, for the first time, uh, in the, um, years that I've been

riding, my legs played up when I got to, to the south of, uh, Colombia.

Ah.

Uh, and that was a f- yeah.

Yeah, that was a f- that was a good eye-opener.

It made me focus on how much I was doing per day.

Right.

Um, the hills are no joke.

Um, obviously when you're a little bit younger, you don't

have to worry about these things.

Sure, sure.

But, uh, nutrition, um, fluids, uh, so yeah, I've, uh- How old are you now, Gary?

Uh, 55 now.

Unbelievable.

Is this the longest trip you've done?

The previous one started off that it was gonna be six months and ended

up five years, so- Oh, right … um- But that was with some breaks.

You were, you were not biking the entire time.

Absolutely.

Right.

No, no.

The, the… In fairness, you've, you've gotta, you've gotta pace it,

otherwise, um, you do mentally, uh, find yourself a little bit under it.

It's, um, you've gotta get the balance, otherwise it can become a bit of a,

um- Like a slog … bit of a task.

Right.

Yeah.

Like a slog.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, yeah, you stopped in Mexico City for two or three weeks

or something, didn't you?

I mean, that you were there for a while.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

The other one with that, Jef, is basically I was … Once I'd got out

of North America, I felt as if I was trying to chase the, um, seasons.

I couldn't start in Alaska- Right … too soon.

I had to get over, um, Colorado before it started to snow.

Yeah.

You know, and then basically by the time I got to the, the Baja, I knew I could

slow down in Central America- Right

to try to time it to get to Patagonia in their summertime.

Yeah.

And how many miles do you think that'll be the whole tr- this whole trip?

Do you have any idea?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't, no.

I d- I don't really plan much, Jef, really.

I just, um, it … I quite like the spontaneity of, um, you

know, turning up to places that you don't have a clue about.

Sure.

Um, I have a little bit of an idea of the route.

You generally know, you know, roughly where you're heading, but that can

change, you know, within a couple of days.

So yeah, I, I'm, I'm basically gearing up now for a route that's

called the, um, Peruvian, I think they call it Great Divide.

Um- Uh-huh … which is something that, uh, some intrepid, um, people

beforehand, in fact, that they were called the Pikes on Bikes.

Um, it's now been, uh, designated by bikepacking.com, and, um, it's one

of their, uh, main South American routes, so it- Oh, well, that's good.

At least it'll be made for bikes.

I think that's probably … I would, I would get sketched out because I don't

like sharing the, the road with cars.

It freaks me out.

I feel like I'm gonna get hit by a car.

That can happen, Jef.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, yeah.

You do, though, you do hear of, um, cyclists out and about that,

um, unfortunately do get hit, and unfortunately motorists, um- Don't

consider that you've been riding for seven or eight hours that day

and your legs ain't very good.

Right.

Right.

Um, they presume you're just riding around a corner.

Right.

And what kind of, uh… What are you, what are you taking with you?

What do you have on your bike?

Yeah, one of the first things when you first set off is you generally over-pack.

You take a lot of nice to haves.

There were, yeah, extra couple of tops and a few other things.

So once you've been out a while, you streamline that down, 'cause

as soon as you hit the hills- Right

every little T-shirt- Right … you can feel.

I carry, uh, and again, you sort of do your homework, uh, to select

decent quality stuff that packs down small volume and is light.

Um, so yeah, camping gear, sleeping stuff, cooking stuff, warm gear, uh,

warm clothes, w- uh, wet clothes.

Well, s- sorry, wet weather clothes.

And, uh, obviously something for maintenance on the bike.

Sure, sure.

How many flats have you gotten on this trip?

Like, a load, actually.

I was doing fine in North America.

I had a couple of, um, random ones- Right … uh, that you th- you think,

"Oh, that's a bit unfortunate." Yeah.

But then when I got to the Baja, I, uh, I was starting to pick up

quite a few, um, thorns, basically.

I think they're goatheads, they call them.

Even, uh, Arizona, maybe.

Uh- Right … and once it starts, it seems as if you just, um,

end up on a, a bad run of them.

So- Uh-huh … you're still, you know, you're constantly

taking that back wheel off.

But, um, since Mexico, and in fact just after, I think I'd just had it

done, Jef, when I came around to yours before we did the, um, balloon trip.

I went, um, tubeless.

And, um- Oh, right.

Right, right, right … the w- that had been going fantastic

up until, where did I get to?

Somewhere in Colombia.

Plenty of glass on the road.

Uh, just happened to hit a, uh… Well, the tire was getting

a little bit thin as well.

Um, and then it was just too big to plug.

So, uh, we put a tube in it, and, uh, it was a new tire, so.

Wow.

And, uh, touch wood, been good ever since.

So have there been… Like, what have been some of the highlights

of this, this bike trip itself?

Have there been anything, any, any, like… What's, what's stood out in

terms of even e- either experiences or places or whatever it is?

Any, uh, any takeaways?

Yeah.

Alaska scenery is stunning.

Um, you get a, a north, uh, what was it?

British Columbia.

Mm-hmm.

A lot of river riding.

You're, you know, the road is alongside a river.

That's always beautiful.

Right.

The ride down from North America, which is, uh, the one they race, just so varied.

I w- I don't know what I anticipated for that ride, but

it just changed within the day.

So, you know, it's the sort of thing when you're riding, you're looking for.

You don't want- Unfortunately, like a bit of Northern Australia or then

there's a stretch in Argentina heading south, which is, um, the Pampas.

It's just the same hour after hour, day after day.

Right, right.

So, um, you know, if y- if you get the variety, uh, Baja was fantastic in Mexico.

Mexico itself was, um, a great surprise.

I really didn't know what to expect there.

Central America have been, uh, El Salvador had fantastic friendly people.

Um, there were wonderful beaches obviously through there.

Colombia was a treat.

Ecuador, um, again, lovely people.

Peru is just stunning.

I came up through a gorge the other day.

Wow.

Uh, hadn't expected it.

I came down the gorge as the opposite side on a different river, and I

thought that was absolutely amazing.

And then I think the reason that it was so slow coming back up the gorge was r-

stopping so often to take the, um, photos.

Right, right, right.

Amazing.

Have there been any, um…

I mean, have people been generally nice as, that you've met?

Have there, has there been any animosity or is it generally mostly like just super

friendly curious people that you've met?

I think that's one of the absolute advantages, Jef, with

the, um, riding with a bicycle.

For some reason you're just more approachable.

I think you're less of a threat- Right … or whatever.

Right.

I don't, you know, I th- I don't know what it is.

Um, people are more curious.

You're also in more remote places.

I generally find if you're out in the countryside of pretty much

any country, people are wonderful.

That makes sense.

It's the city, you know.

Yeah.

It's the cities where people are condensed.

Mm-hmm.

There's, uh, a lot more, uh, alcohol and drug, um, in the cities, more traffic.

Um, people are stressed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And people are looking for variety out in the country and, you know, some strange

British guy comes biking down the street.

Yeah.

Especially some of it's like, "What on earth are you doing here?"

Right.

Right, right.

Um, the other bit is, is being English, the ability to, um, or push yourself

to learn a foreign language is, um, unfortunately, uh, a little lacking.

When you meet other Europeans or whomever, uh, that speak two or three languages,

it does, um, make you feel a bit humble.

Yeah.

How's the Spanish going?

Is it coming along well, Gary?

That was timely.

Um, I'm comfortable enough, um, that I can sort of get by.

People understand, um, that, uh, you know, you only speak poco español.

Si.

Si.

Si.

The, um, uh… But, uh, it was, uh, evident when I, um, uh, ordered the,

um, breakfast the other day, and, uh, all I heard was, uh, fritter.

And up until then I'd had chicken fritters, so I thought

this, yeah, for breakfast.

And, uh, I ended up with quarter of a, um, fried guinea pig.

And I was like, "Yeah." Right.

But they eat a lot of guinea pig down there.

They love guinea pig.

Yeah, they love it.

Love it.

Did you try it?

How was it?

Yeah.

Well, I had to.

It was, uh, basically what I ordered that breakfast.

Yeah, there's not a lot of meat on it- Right

surprisingly.

Right, right.

I think, um, probably they're much the same as trying to eat a parrot.

Um, but, uh, they, uh, yeah, it's funny.

I mean, it's ironic they call it a, it's ironic they call it a pig because

there's really not a lot of meat on there.

There's not a lot.

I couldn't find much at all.

I ended up eating the skin, I think it was.

But, um, yeah, they sell… They obviously eat guinea pig, but they sell rabbits.

So, um, yeah- Huh … I find it quite unusual.

Was, was it good?

Uh, no.

Fortunately, it came with swede.

So, uh, yeah.

All right.

Most of it ended up on the, um, side dish.

Right.

So no guinea pig.

I mean, for breakfast that seems a little bit much.

I mean- Yeah.

I didn't- … for any, any meal really, but breakfast it's a lot.

Yeah.

Well, that's what I was thinking.

I didn't think I could go too wrong with a breakfast, but then all of a

sudden I'm like, yeah, you need to, um, you need to start thinking about it.

But, um, yeah.

There's, you know, there's been other soups and things that you get, um, uh,

kidneys or, um, some liver in there.

Uh, you're basically gonna- Have to consume some offal

somewhere along the line Yeah.

And a lot of time it's not bad.

Like, honestly, like they've been cooking it like that for so long that they're

able to make it into some… Like when I lived in Korea, I had a lot of stuff

I didn't even know what I was eating.

And, uh, but it was good.

I made… Sometimes I just don't even, didn't even wanna know what I

was eating because, like, it's better not to know that you're eating, you

know, whatever brains or whatever.

Um- But it was good.

But that was exactly the process, innit?

That's it.

That's it.

Right.

It is.

It's, uh… And you see others that are eating it, you think,

um, basically sometimes it's like, well, don't even chew it.

You basically it's, um, it's gonna be what your main meal is today.

You're gonna, um, you get it down.

Right.

Right, right.

When in Rome, as it, as it were.

Have there been any profound, um, issues that you've had, like aside

from the, the flat tires and so forth and, and I don't know, have

there been any like, like issues of getting caught camping somewhere?

Whatever it is, you know, um, on this trip or any other trip really.

No.

No.

I think, um, I'd anticipated a few more border issues.

Right.

Um, y- you know, which is in the back of your mind, but that's probably

'cause you've l- read too much, um, news or you've listened to too many-

Sure … people's opinions that haven't actually been through there.

Mm-hmm.

The only time that I've ever really had an issue with camping, uh, was when I was

walking around the south coast of England.

There was one guy walking a dog that moved me on.

Oh.

Uh, other than that, anywhere else in the world has been fine.

It's interesting though, once you get… Like my, I was struck by how much I liked

Mexico City particularly, and Mexico in general, and it was surprising as

an American going there because like the media, and I'm sure in the UK too,

the media just tells you this is a terrifying place, uh, full of d- drug

cartels and all these kind of things.

Yeah.

And certainly there are those things there.

But I found it to be one of the friendliest countries

that I've been to in my life.

And, uh, the people were just… I never felt any real meanness by anybody.

And when I tell people this, when I, when I got back and I tell people this, they're

still skeptical 'cause the media- Yeah

all they tell you is how terrible, you know, uh, border problems,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

It's like they wanna divide us, Gary.

It's like they want us to hate each other.

It's weird.

Or fear each other or something, you know?

Oh, totally.

Totally.

There's a, there's definitely an agenda with the, uh, with the news.

Yeah.

Um- Yeah.

But like you say, I was coming in and, and definitely borders and/or

for some reason train stations, you know, they can be a bit sketchy.

But, um- Yes, for sure I, uh, did get warned a couple of times,

um, as I was leaving, uh, America to be careful certainly in

around, uh, some parts of Mexico.

Sure thing.

Got it.

Yeah.

Um, y- and, um, you know, it does, um, raise the concern.

Uh, and then you're just absolutely mystified where it comes from

when you actually get there.

You think these people are going out their way to look after me.

Right.

It's almost- Sure … it reminds me of, like, the drug war when I was a kid.

They would just say, "Say no to drugs."

Ronald Reagan would say, "Say no to drugs." Like, all the drugs.

So as soon as you ended up, you grew up under that, and you smoke a

little weed, and you're like, "Oh, I'm fine." Then you're like, "Oh,

maybe this is all bullshit." Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a great metaphor.

And before you know it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Then you're on, then you're, then you're shooting up heroin before

you know it, and then, yeah.

That's it.

That's it.

Um, which is all we did in Mexico City, me and you.

Boy, those were the times, weren't they, Gary?

All that, all that amazing Mexican heroin we shoveled- Yeah.

Well, the thing is that you- … down my … yeah.

I'm not sure we actually were on a balloon.

It just felt like it.

And yeah, it was, um, best, fair.

You know, Mexico was a fantastic place with lovely people.

I, I would go back there and, and ride a different route, see more of it.

It was fantastic.

Yeah.

I wanna see more.

I'm go- actually going back to Mexico City in, at the beginning

of December, um, for a week.

Oh, nice one.

I'm excited about that one.

Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you said the initial reason for the trip was not really to bike around

the world, it was just to, to travel around the world, was the initial idea,

and you just kind of fell into biking as a, as a result of experimentation?

Yeah, absolutely, Jef.

It was ba- I'd done a lot of, um… I travel with my work and I also

done a lot of, um, traveling anyway.

Um, I'd done the backpacking thing.

Uh, I'd done various other, you know, ways of getting around.

Uh, and I was not, I was a, I was a bit older than I wanted to be if I was

gonna be in a bus doing the backpacking.

Sure.

So, um- Yeah, yeah, yeah … you know, I thought, "Oh, it's the motorbike option."

Um, and then I really did think, uh, it's a broken leg at best, uh- Right

for me on a motorbike.

Right.

So, uh, I looked at, um, my ne- next, um, off period when I was, uh, f- three

weeks on, three weeks off, I think it was.

S- uh, well, I mean, four weeks on, four weeks off.

Right.

And, um, I looked at doing something with Burma, um, Myanmar, that had pretty

much just sort of opened up since, um, before it was, uh, quite restricted- Yeah

and, uh, still under military control, I think.

Yeah.

And I'd sort of mentally avoided it rather than, you know, dipping my toe in it.

But this, it, it opened up and, uh, I looked at, um, a mountain

bike, uh, tour for two weeks, and it was just s- so expensive.

I just thought, "This is, this is crazy." They had the route, the itinerary on

the website, and, uh, I just looked at, um, how to get a bike to, um, Bangkok.

And then it was like, "Why not just buy a fold-up one in Bangkok, fly it into,

um, Yangon, and, uh, ride to Mandalay?" And, uh, yeah, it was way… You know,

obviously it looks like a clown bike.

Sure, sure.

You've got, um, 18-inch wheels.

Yeah.

Kids loved it.

I'd actually like to see you riding that, actually.

I think it'd be funny.

Yeah.

But it's a shame.

But so did the kids.

Yeah.

So did the kids.

I spent the first, um, 12 hours riding it one-handed just waving

at these kids running alongside.

You should've gotten a horn.

One, like, one of those, "Ah, ah, ah." Yeah.

I should have had the red nose and the shoes.

Right, red nose and everything, right.

Uh, throwing out candies.

Yeah, yeah.

But, um- Yeah, yeah.

Next time.

Yeah.

I w- yeah.

Square wheels maybe.

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

Yeah, yeah.

Then, um- Yeah, yeah.

I'll videotape that.

I'll come out with a video camera for that one, Gary.

I promise.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

We'll do a couple of weeks for that.

Yep.

So, uh, yeah.

And then was convinced.

And then basically, yeah, did a little bit of research on getting

a bike, uh, some of the gear.

And, um, yeah, basically my contract came to an end.

Uh, I chose not to extend it and then basically flew into Ushuaia

and rode up to Peru in the opposite direction from what I'm doing now.

And you were like, "Yeah, this works.

I like this." Yeah. It was, it was definitely doable. And then, like I say,

within that first six months, I'm like, "Yeah, I don't need to s- " And basically

I stopped, um, looking for new contracts.

It just basically, I was still getting offers coming in, and it just sort of

like, I just dwindled away from it.

And then all of a sudden it was like, "Actually, do I really

need to, um- Go back And you were working on the oil rigs, right?

I was.

I loved it I loved it.

I liked the, um, fly in, fly out.

I liked the remoteness.

There was an element of, you know, everyone on there, there's no

dead wood- Right … basically.

Um, every, every bed is taken by a person that is productive.

Right.

Um, you obviously got the politics involved here and

there, but I was contracting and brought in to fix problems.

So as long as I was diplomatic, things worked for me.

And how did that work, where you were… You said, what?

Four months on, four months off or something like that?

Or how did that work?

How long- No.

No, four weeks- Four weeks … or Jef.

Four weeks on.

Four weeks, right.

They, they, they extend it basically so that there's m- so

that there's less cost for the flights and there's less logistics.

If you're domestic, i.e., if you were working in Ameri- America

and Gulf of Mexico or the, um, British, um, North Sea, uh, you're,

you're two weeks on, two weeks off.

Um- Right … in N- in Norway they push it the other way.

You've got two weeks on, three weeks off, but, um, Norway's a

bit of an exceptional country.

Um, yeah, and I loved it.

It was, um… I liked production.

It felt as if you were getting stuff done.

You could see the results.

Yeah, and, um, you know, I was on a good run.

So they would, like, have to helicopter you out probably, I would imagine.

Yeah, I was flying in from Southeast Asia- Right … connecting in Dubai.

Um, and then going over to…

My last role was in Brazil, which was excellent 'cause the Brazilians were

really friendly, really good, um, setup.

So it's mostly Brazilians on the, on the oil rig.

Depending on which sector.

You know, in the Nor- in Nigeria it was Nigerians mostly.

Sure.

Um, with… You get a f- sprinkling of expats.

For the Brazilian one it was a Chevron, um, uh, platform.

Huh.

So you also had, um, uh, Americans in the more senior roles basically to,

uh, ensure that Chevron procedures and safety standards- Right.

Right … are, um, maintained.

Right.

Yeah.

And then you would get to the closest point, which, um,

for me was, um, uh, Victoria.

Uh, and then you would, you would do the last hour and a half in the helicopter.

Wow.

Yeah.

And when, when, when you say about the helicopter there, Jef, sorry about that.

No.

When you say about the helicopter- Yeah, yeah, yeah … the, um, the, um…

There was, um… Where was he from?

He was, he was American, but I can't remember exactly where he was from,

and I did, um… He was retiring.

He'd, uh, served his whole time I think with Chevron, so it was

quite the, uh, retirement package.

But, um, uh, and I, I, you know, spoke to him and wished him all the best.

And just all I said was, "You, you know, you're gonna be going traveling.

Is there any of the… You know, Japan or what, you know, whatever do

you want to see or that?" He said, "Gary," basically he said, "I've run

my statistics and my percentages."

He said, "For all the hours I have flown, I should have crashed something." You

know, I should have ditched a helicopter.

Right.

I should have done something.

So he was going back to his farm, and that was, that was his retirement.

Don't push your luck, yeah.

Um, yeah.

I had, um, maintenance guys I've… in, um, Nigeria that had- been kidnapped, um,

other people that have been in helicopters that have basically Ditched- Wow

as they call it.

Wow.

Yeah.

And one of the things when you do the offshore survival course is,

um, it, uh, basically highlights, um, how real it's gonna get.

It's not gonna go down on a nice sunny day.

It's gonna go down in the dark on a really bad weather.

Uh, the sea's gonna be ferocious.

You'll be lucky to get out with the helicopter because there'd be so

much panic or, um, a non-s- couple of non-swimmers in there or something.

Uh, then you've gotta get to a life raft that's obviously gonna try

to blow away from the helicopter.

You've gotta cut yourself, um, free from the helicopter and not get

dragged down, and then you've only got X amount of, uh, time and exposure.

S- for the North Sea, if you don't zip up your, um, exposure suit,

which is almost like a dry suit- Yeah

uh, you got about three minutes, and if it's zipped up,

I think you got three hours.

Yeah, no, no thanks.

I'm good.

I'm good.

I saw Titanic, and I was … I'm all right with it.

I don't need to do that.

Um, and how many people were on these rigs at the same time?

How many … Well, how big were the crew for these things?

Depends on the degree of, um, production or processing that

needs to be done with the, um, oil that's coming up out the ground.

Right.

Some places like North Sea, it comes up pretty good, so you, you … But

there's some massive, um, um, ones in the Norwegian sector there.

Like how many?

People?

Yeah.

On the platforms?

Yeah.

Uh, typically, um, you know, 50.

Oh.

Uh, you're not gonna get … The thing is, is, you know, when you're designing it,

you're not gonna … You, you … These numbers will be all calculated, uh, 'cause

of the weight and, um, you know, just the, uh, physical putting it together- Right.

Right, right … um, be- be- you know, before you take it out wherever it is.

So yeah, it … You know, they got, they got turbines on there.

There's, you know, they could power a small s- town or s- you know.

Right.

Right.

But, uh, yeah.

Yeah.

It was g- yeah, really interesting.

Really g- you've got all … You know, you've got diversity from, um, uh, the

electrical, uh, the instrumentation, the process guys, the maintenance guys.

Yeah, yeah.

Safety.

You know.

Do- Cooks.

Everything … do they, uh … Do these things move at all, or do

they, are they pretty static?

Do they, do they sway in the, in the water?

Depends how far off shore you are.

Oh, all right.

So if you're in, like, rougher waters, it's gonna … It's g- you're gonna

feel a little bit- Well, the technology, mainly by the, um, Americans in Texas,

um, uh, started on shore, uh, where they developed all the, um, drilling- Right

and, um, let's say knowledge of it all.

Uh, and then as they realized that there was some just in the shore, uh, they moved

slightly offshore, and then as technology sort of developed, they've moved

further and further away from the shore.

Um, so they are basically either anchored, uh, a semi-mo- mo-

submersible or, um, chained down.

You know, there's others now that they use, uh- Converted oil tankers really.

So the whole production, um, facilities gets put on the oil tanker.

Uh, they call them floating production, uh, units, which, um, you know, they

obviously bob up and down in the sea and then, um, they got some storage

and then another oil tanker will come along however often, depending

on how high the production rates are, um, and offload, and then the

cycle will just continue And you're

Like, when you're on one of these things, you're in the middle of nowhere

in the ocean, generally speaking.

So you just look around and it's just water as far as the eye can see.

Beautiful.

Absolutely stunning.

The stars must've been un- must've been incredible.

It's just gorgeous.

Yeah.

It's just gorgeous.

There's some days where you get … Like, for the North Sea, there was some days

where the, the, the water will just be absolutely mirrored, flat calm.

Oh, wow.

Wow.

Yeah, blissful.

You see the sun come up.

You might see some other, um, flares, uh, where they flare off some of

the excess gas, in the distance.

Um, and then another day, that sea will just be violent, and it's

just like, "I'm not on something big enough to be out here."

Right.

Right, right.

Um, so it is, uh, quite daunting sometimes.

But yeah, you know, the beauty … It was … Yeah, this … You, you're up at

sort of 5:00 or something in the morning, and you see the sun break through,

and it's just like, "Yeah, this is…" You wouldn't wanna be anywhere else.

But then you are there to work, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, there's not a lot of, uh, social life with it.

Right.

So were there ever any, like, incidents on one of these rigs that was, like, uh,

uh, uh, dangerous or sketchy in any way?

Were you ever in any danger?

I will say the Norwegian one was, uh … Not, sorry, not the Norwegian one.

The, uh, Nigerian- Uh-huh

one was, was a little bit sketchy.

We were on a platform that was designed for something else.

Um, it wasn't particularly sized accordingly.

Uh, and it was meant to degas, which we don't do in most Western

areas, um, prior to it going to a secondary or main facility.

Okay.

Um, and, uh, it had, um, what can be best described as sort of like

rubber pipework, uh, connecting between the two, um, platforms.

Right.

And, uh, one of the, um, flexible hoses basically blew out three days before I

was due to go, and it just basically shook the, um, whole platform from side to side.

You've got gas released at sort of 70 bar, a lot of it.

You've still got the flare going.

Uh, people were running.

They were all on the heli deck.

And fortunately, one of the, um, local, uh, supervisors … It

wasn't the supervisor.

I think it was the lead operator, uh, decided on his own to

go back to the control room.

Maybe he should've, um, hit it beforehand, or the supervisor.

Any- whoever should've … Uh, and then, um, yeah, shut the,

um, downsea safety valves off.

But yeah, that was, um, that could have been a, um, a major incident.

Well, at least you weren't there at the time, so that's…

dodged a bullet on that one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, so, and it pays quite well, as I think you said, the, the oil rig work, as I

imagine- Yeah … it would pay quite well, 'cause it's somewhat dangerous and, you

know, remote and all that kind of thing.

Hard to have a relationship when you're on an oil rig, you know?

Relationship's a classic one.

You… It's, it's, um, unnatural really because you, you're used to

nine to fives, only spending weekends and a few hours in the evening.

These ones you've got no contact and then full contact for the two,

three, four weeks, whatever it is.

So yeah, it's quite a, quite an odd one because the other partner

obviously forms a, a lifestyle, um, whilst you're away working and

whichever way round it, um- Right.

Right … And with the, with the money, the money is good,

the, you know, it's factored in.

But one of the main things is for half of the year you're in the middle

of the ocean, you can't spend it.

Right.

So you're saving money.

Right.

Right.

Exactly.

Exactly.

That's the thing that sort of, um, gets, uh, missed out of the equation.

It's not like you come back with a whole briefcase full of cash.

Um- Right.

Right.

It's just that you're not spending it.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Huh.

The, the other unfortunate thing is, is, um, if, you know, when,

when younger people get the, get…

The, the money gets blown thinking, oh, there's fast cars and lots

of lifestyle and whatever else.

Right.

Right.

Um, so, you know, they can rather than saving it, invest in it or whatever it

is, uh, you see quite older gentlemen still out there, um, with, with a

couple of divorces and whatever else.

And, uh, you know, really they should have done their time

and no longer be exposed to it.

Right.

But you got out because you didn't make these mistakes.

Or you were, you were able to get out Yeah Yeah, yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Um, so how long did you work?

How many years did you work on these things?

Uh, I worked up till I was, uh, 45.

And you started when you were…?

When I left, uh, university, so that would've been 23, I think.

Wow.

I didn't go straight, I didn't go straight into the offshore, to be honest.

I, um, uh, I had no network or family connections.

Uh, I wasn't from the, um, local oil or gas areas.

Right.

Uh, my first job was in, um… What was it?

It was a, a coatings industry, which, uh, photoresist, and then, uh, I took a shift

manager's role in an edible oils refinery in, um, uh, the Isle of Dogs in London.

Huh, and so then you worked in the oil rigs for 20, 25 years or so.

Uh, tw- 20 years sounds like about, give or take.

Yeah.

Yeah, give or take.

Yeah.

Give or take.

Yeah.

And then was that the place that you kind of traveling around the world doing

this, was this where you got kind of the wanderlust that you're now ex- you,

you know, you're now exploring it now?

Um, I, I might have had it a little bit before, 'cause I did, um… I

came out of the job from the Isle of Dogs, Jef, and then did go traveling.

All right, so it's always been a thing.

All right.

Yeah.

I did, I did the whole, um, um, year out, well, a little bit later.

I obviously had to pay off my, um, student loans and, um,

get some money together- Right

which is what I did in those, with those first couple of jobs.

Sure, sure, sure.

And then, um, yeah, went, um, where did we start?

Mainly started in India, I suppose, and then Southeast Asia, and then

down through to Australia, which is a pretty common route for Europeans.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then, um, yeah, came back and was fortunate enough because

I got the job through the Institute of Chemical Engineers.

Um, I got back in touch with them when I got back to the UK, and they were like,

"Well, you did, um, well with the, uh, uh, Isle of Dogs shift manager's role.

How about, are you still interested in going offshore?" I was like,

"Yes." And that was my in.

Oh.

So I was, I was a bit fortunate.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So where do you think that this desire to see the world comes from?

Like, is it just a thing that… Do… Is, like, your family or anybody, anybody in

your life that influenced you to do this?

Like, for myself, it was kinda my sister started traveling after she

was in or whilst she was in college and kinda got me wanting to do it.

Um, but I don't know.

I mean, how did it happen for you?

Was it just something that you were like, "I wanna see the world"?

Uh, yeah, I think, uh, to be honest, I traveled with a mate from university, Tim.

Right.

And, um, he, he got in touch with me whilst I was basically still,

you know, working in London.

I, you know, hadn't really thought, rethought of it.

And he j- he said that, that he was getting a little bit, uh, over the job

he was in, and he said, "Do you still think about, um, going round the world?"

I'm like, "Well, yeah, absolutely." Uh, he said, "Well," he said, "I'm ready to

jack it , you know- Right … imminently." I said, "Well, you're gonna have to

give us a couple of months to, um, get a little bit organized and to say my

goodbyes." But, um, yeah, no, obviously, so at university he was aware and I

was aware that I wanted to travel.

We didn't do a lot of holidays as, um, as a family.

Um, mainly we, you know, let's just say we didn't have, um,

the, the spare cash for it.

Right.

But, um, you know, my grandad did travel, but we didn't know… Well,

he basically was gonna leave and go to Australia, uh, and then New

Zealand, and then he came back.

He left, I think, when he was 16, so it was quite bold for a back,

um, back at the turn of- For sure

the century.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, uh, he was working in, um, coal mines in New Zealand.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

And, uh, was on better money there than he was when he came back to the UK.

Right.

And he only came back because he had to settle his estate with,

um, or w- what… Well, basically, I think his dad was dying.

Wow.

So, um- Right

and then he met my grandmother when, um, he came back.

So that was, that's where that changed.

Hm.

But maybe it did trigger something, but, uh, I, I just,

there's a lot to see out there.

Yeah, there is.

And it's interesting that some people, I mean, in my perspective is the

United States, but it seems like some people do very much wanna travel.

Not a ton of people, in my experience, and some people just don't have

any interest in seeing the world.

And I just don't really understand why you wouldn't wanna see

other places in the world.

But then again, some people, I think a lot of it comes out of maybe fear, you know?

I mean, or, you know, getting out of your comfort zone, all these kind of things.

But, uh, uh, but yeah.

I do agree with you there, Jef.

The bit, the bit where I don't understand why you wouldn't wanna see it.

Right.

Right.

Um, and a lot, a lot of people don't.

I th- There, there's also the bit, um, you know, 'cause I have to think, um, why.

Um, I think people get used to their home life- Yeah, they nest

and the c- Yeah … and they nest.

They do, and they get comfortable with what they know, and are comfortable

with two-week holiday, wherever it is.

Yeah.

Um, you know, they save up and do that.

Mm-hmm.

And then the, that, and then they're back into whatever else.

I suppose they get, um, you know, a structured… I think it's

different as well, uh, with children.

If you've got children- Oh, for sure.

For sure, yeah … you know.

Yeah.

I th- I think, um, especially if that happens early on, then you sort of

realize, your, your focus shifts, and then I think that's possibly

where the, um, travel round the world bit, um, gets put on the, um, shelf.

I also think that it's also, you know, fear of the unknown as well, and

also a fear of perhaps being, like, confronted with a reality that you've

dec- you've already decided that, whatever, Mexico's a dangerous place.

So if you went there and found out otherwise, your, your, your reality would

be, you know, somehow shattered in a way.

I don't know.

Well, I, I think, I think what, what happens there, they, they

choose safer destinations.

Yeah, they go to the beach resorts- They- And yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We're in Mexico, but really you're just in, like, a, an American resort

in Mexico or whatever the hell.

There's stuff like Cancun.

I hear that is basically the, uh, you, you get more trouble there, even though

it's the popular tourist thing than- Right … than you do o- other areas.

Right.

So- Right … you know, they, what they, what they perceive as the, uh, safer

option is the, uh, more dangerous option.

Well, I think the cartels probably spend a lot of time there because they

can sell the drugs to the tourists and all that kind of thing, but who knows?

I don't know.

Anyway, is there a place you've been in the world, Gary, that is like a highlight

where you're like, "Oh, that was…" Or one of the, uh, not, maybe not number one.

I know it's hard to do number one, but what's like one of the favorite places

that you've been to in the whole world?

Do you know, Jef, that's one of the, um, that's one of the most frequently

asked questions really- Oh, well

when you're cycling round and- Yeah … you know I'm sure,

yeah … uh, and, um, I generally say the last country that I've been in.

I name that because the, the memory's the freshest.

Uh, you can list off stuff and various other things.

But to answer your question, Japan was Uh, amazing Yeah For me m- mostly because

it was totally, uh, so m- so varied.

My perception I think was just it was gonna be massive Tokyo.

And then I got there, and it's, um, 99% Japanese.

So you get the full- Yeah … um, Japanese experience.

Very, very homogenous.

Yeah, yeah.

You know?

Um, lovely, polite, safe, interesting.

Um, uh, I like the cultural, um, difference to what we're used to.

Um, Nep- the other one there is Nepal.

You've got the Himalayas, which are unlike anything else.

Sure.

Stunning.

Uh, you've got the Buddhist … It's a bit like India, but it's,

um, without the hassle.

Right.

So Nepal is- Yeah … it's up there.

Uh, Southeast Asia's cool again.

Yeah.

Mainly culturally, lovely people.

Um, safe.

The Buddhist influence is always good.

There are … You know, I th- I think there's really special places.

I don't think I've, um … There's many that you go to and, um,

come away, uh, disappointed.

You know- Right … India is just so extreme.

I don't think you can come away with India without having some perception.

Mm-hmm.

Love it or hate it.

Yeah.

I don't know that I could do India.

I've heard so many stories about just, uh, all of the, uh, the touts and so forth.

I don't know that I could.

But, uh, who knows?

Personal space in India, Jef, basically, you know, it's, uh,

there's 1.4 billion- Yeah … Indians.

Yeah.

And, uh, it's not the biggest of countries.

Yeah.

And, uh, personal space is not something they, um, uh, highly

regard, which obviously- Oh, yeah, I

Yeah.

I experienced that in South Korea.

It was, it w- the personal space is not even a thing.

It was crazy.

Um- Not even a thing.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And men holding hands- Yeah … which was weird.

There was a, uh- … men are hold- men, men holding- That's

an Indian thing as well.

Yeah, yeah.

And one of my, one of my teachers at one point, we were just walking down the

street after having, like, an introductory meeting, and he tries to hold my hand.

And I'm like, "Yeah, yeah.

No, no.

I'm okay.

I'm okay." Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We don't, we don't do this.

We don't do this.

Yeah.

We don't, we don't do that.

No.

I mean, I'm all for trying to, you know, integrate myself into the

culture, but I'm not gonna, uh- I felt like drawing the line … hold a

man's, hold a middle-aged man's hand.

Get holded.

Yeah.

Um- Yeah … yeah, yeah, yeah.

Uh, is there anywhere that you are still wanting to go?

Is there … What's next on the list?

I was gonna, um, get down to Bushfire, and if I had the timing right on

the seasons- Get down to where?

… uh, I was Uh, the southern tip of, uh, um, Argentina Okay It's just south of, uh,

the Patagonian region Right It may even be in the very, um, yeah, Ushuaia it's

spelled, um- Okay I'm not gonna try and spell it Yeah, it's okay Um, y- uh, and

I was gonna come back up, but, um, yeah, I will be going back to the, uh, the UK

and sorting out a few things that have popped up, and I've suppose I've saved

Europe because it's close, and I hopefully can do that at any point unless they,

um, change- That seems, that seems easy.

Yeah.

Yeah, that seems like an easy one- Yeah … at this point, yeah.

So, um, I, you know, I was gonna probably try to get back up to sort of like Mexico-

Yeah … um, for the, uh, so I was gonna try to, um, see a lot more of this area.

Um, but circumstances have sort of, uh- limited that idea for now.

So I would come back, definitely.

Yeah, I would love to explore more of Mexico.

The other one was I was gonna ride from, uh, Cairo to, um, Cape,

which is also a, um, you know, pretty well-known cycle route.

Right.

The east of Austra- um, of Africa had always been perceived as the

safer option- Sure … than the west.

Yeah.

Uh, whereas, whereas now it could be the opposite.

You can't continuously ride through the countries on the east, so,

um, that it, it's less appealing.

If you, if you can ride the route straight, uh, and not have

to worry about, um, putting it in a plane, then fair enough.

Uh, I would probably, um, I would probably consider more China, really.

Uh, I had a quick look in the southern bit, the Yunnan and the

Sichuan region, uh, which I enjoyed.

So I would, uh, consider China.

Um- Yeah.

Iceland.

Do you ever wanna do Iceland?

Because there's a ring road there, and people do that all the time.

They do.

They do.

Um- Yeah, it's a beautiful country … you, the thing… Yeah.

And, uh, the only thing is, is you s- it would be good.

You would specifically fly in.

Also windy, too.

Do your route.

Yeah, very windy though, too.

Also windy.

Yeah.

You'd have to make sure you didn't get too cold.

Yeah.

And, uh, I would imagine rather expensive, but, um- Yeah, it's expensive … yeah,

um, it would be good to, good to ride, but, uh, ag- probably again,

a little later on when you, when you haven't got, or I wouldn't be able

to designate large chunks of time.

Right.

If I, if, you know, it's a bit like cycling around Ireland.

That would be great.

Yeah, I would- But again, I can do that in the summer- Yeah … uh, from the UK.

Yeah, I'll do that with you, Gary.

I would love to do that.

When I was in Ireland, like you can see- Absolutely … bike paths

everywhere, and they're like beautiful well-paved bike paths all around

the country, and it's just, yeah.

Well, we'll line that up, Jef.

We'll get that sorted out.

Yeah, yeah, we'll have to do that.

Yeah.

Once I get a, once I get a job, Gary, I'll…

Or once the podcast takes off.

Okay, there's a few things, there's a few things we gotta sort out beforehand.

Yeah, I need to get- But once we get- Need to get some money first

once we get the- But, uh- Yeah … yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, once we get them, yeah.

Once we get some, that money.

Yeah, once we get that sorted and lined up.

Like, the food, the food thing and the money thing figured out, then we'll

talk about doing an Ireland- Yeah, an overseas bike trip, yeah Well, the

other side of that one would be that it does, the weather there is kinda shit,

so it would be a lot of like, it, you know, it does rain quite a bit, so it'd

be a wet one It would be a wet one.

You basically have to, have to be prepared to, um, get very

wet, so it would be wet gear.

Uh- Yeah … y- your camping, camping would be okay, but you'd have to get

used to basically, um, putting on wet clothes and, um- Ugh, yeah, maybe

not … packing- All right, I take it back … packing, packing a wet I don't,

I don't wanna go any- Packing a wet tent

I don't wanna go anymore.

We'll go somewhere else, Gary.

I don't wanna go to, I don't wanna go there.

We'll just go back to Mexico and we'll go somewhere else Mexico.

Yeah, yeah Go through the Baja.

Sure.

Down, down.

Uh, we can get more of that sp- spectacular heroin we got in, in Mexico

City- … and, uh, just get ripped.

And just fly.

Right.

Yep.

Right, right, right, right.

It's easier to bike when you're on that heroin.

That's what you always said.

That's what I find, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

That's the thing we haven't talked about is how you are doing this

entire trip, uh, just doing heroin the whole way, isn't that right?

We didn't mention that- That's right

in this episode.

Yeah, that's right.

No.

Right.

No.

Um, which is interesting.

It's, uh, not something I d- I don't bring up very often.

Yeah, no, I know you don't like to talk about it.

Um, um- But, you know, we like people to be honest on this podcast.

So yeah, yeah.

Um, Gary, just, I mean, functional heroin addict to a

degree that's really impressive.

Wow, what was the, uh, uh, um, isn't it the Rolling Stones', uh, lead guitarist

or bassist, bass gu- Keith, um, Richards Keith Richards, yeah, who should be

dead 80 times by this point, yeah.

That's right.

Yeah, you're like the biking- For his, uh- You're like the biking

version of Keith Richards, Gary.

And I love his dress sense.

Yeah.

But, um- He's, um- Yeah … always got a cigarette hanging out of

your mouth- … a needle out of your arm, biking down the road.

Fucking crazy.

Um, hey, Gary doesn't do heroin while he bikes.

Just disclaimer for anybody who th- doesn't understand- That's right.

We better just clear it up, yeah … kind of just friendly joshing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, we did ride in an air balloon together though, so that was actually a thing.

We definitely did that, didn't we?

We, we weren't lying on the floor- We did, that was, uh, yeah … in, in some sort

of, like, squat or something did- Yeah, I never thought I'd go on an air balloon.

We- It was pretty incredible.

That was, that was, and I, I gotta say, I think for, for a flight, it was, um, it

was absolutely stunning going over those, um- Yeah, no … pyramids … it was, it

was, it was one of the f- you know, you do a lot of touristy things when you go to

places, and then some of them disappoint- Mm-hmm … and some of them are good.

But that one- That, yeah … over- oversold.

Except for the ride back- Totally … was the nightmare part for me.

Oh, yes.

But, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

When he, when he basically dropped other people off and, uh, went out of his

way as opposed to just sort of, like, drop- To drop us off last … yeah.

I don't know what we did, but, uh, we did something.

Um- Yeah.

I think it was all the heroin you were doing in the back of the- That's right.

And chatting to him all the time.

Right, right, right.

Yeah.

Um, well, Gary, the last question, which doesn't seem appropriate based on

our conversation about the biking, but the last question I do ask people, uh,

at the end of the, uh, the podcast is what do you think happens when we die?

Ah, interesting, um, change of, uh, pace there Mm-hmm.

Well, usually the conversation's more about, you know, I mean, this has been a

focus of your biking and all that kind of thing, so it's b- it is a very much a…

It does feel like a 180 in this case.

Yes, you're right.

Okay.

It some- sometimes there it's a little bit more philosophical, uh, philosophical.

Yeah, that's the word.

You got it.

Yeah.

You got there.

You got there.

Um, it's funny that.

That's, um, that is quite an interesting, um, poignant question.

I, up until for quite a while I was, um, to the, uh, opinion that, um, you did just

basically run your course- Mm … and, uh, and there, there was nothing afterwards.

However, I'm starting to find there, there possibly is a little bit more to

your, uh, soul- Mm … and, uh, levels of energy, um, and whether or not there is a

particular chance of, uh, reincarnation.

So I, I, yeah, I'm undecided at the moment.

I'm certainly not gonna say the, uh, that I'm… Mm, that does

lead into a creator or non-creator type of- Right, right, right

question, which does sorta sorta suggest, um, before the Big Bang there was nothing.

How do you, um, have nothing and then everything?

So, um- Yeah, it could well be, um- Yeah … that there is.

Who knows?

Who knows?

Consciousness might live on.

Well, that's… Yes, consciousness- Yeah … is, is, um, probably

a better description than soul.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's so much easier to believe that this is it when you're,

like, 20 years old, isn't it?

And then as you get older it becomes- Yeah … a little harder,

so you have to start to, yeah.

Um- Well, I… And again- again, when we, when we've ans- when you, when you get

there, you think, "Oh, people only think like that because they're getting closer

to the end, and they want something else.

Um, and they don't… They're not comfortable with the idea

that it does just end." Right.

But it's, it's more than that.

Yeah, I think so too.

You know, your thinking changes, and it's like, actually nothing doesn't quite f-

isn't quite enough, um, of an answer.

Could well be, because, I mean, you know, there's greater minds that do

actually, uh, split the difference, that, um, you know, got physicists

that do and don't believe in it, um, astrologers, whichever it is.

So, um, yeah, um, I'm still, um, not completely convinced, whereas before I

was quite a stringent, um, uh, atheist thinking that there is nothing else,

and I was quite, um, you know, let's say blase about the fact that whoever

thought there was other things, I was quite happy for them to think it.

Sure.

But I was thinking they're way off the mark, whereas now I'm actually

like, I don't believe that, um, you know, which religion could

be closest to the right truth.

But, um, the consciousness thing is the bit that, um, I

find most- Open-ended Yeah.

A- and I also think, like, I, I was raised Catholic, so the, the

only spiritual ideas I was exposed to as a child was just, like,

Christianity and pretty much it, right?

And, and I think as I've gotten older and as, you know, time has

gone on, there's been much more of an exploration of what even the nature

of consciousness is, and much more…

Many more people meditating, and many more people doing yoga, and things

like this, this, the New Age movement, if you wanna call it something.

And I think that's also contributed a little bit to my, um, rethinking of my

beliefs about what perhaps this all is or what it isn't, et cetera, et cetera.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, um, I, I went along to, um, what is it?

The 10-day silent retreat- Yeah, yeah, in Koh Sam- … yeah, in Thailand.

Yeah.

Um, and reading around, um, the, the, the belief of, um, Buddhism, it's, you

know, it's solid, it's well put together.

Um, I don't think, um, Western people adopt it particularly well.

You can't sort of un-educate the Christian upbringing, um- Yeah

and try to, try to shoehorn it into the, um, the Buddhist thingy.

I think it suits, uh, the Southeast Asian and, uh, Indian and Belize better.

Um- Yeah, I agree.

Uh, although I would say that even a little bit of Buddhism is

better than no Buddhism at all.

Absolutely.

If, uh, if you're gonna pick- It should be their slogan.

It should be their slogan.

Oh, that's right.

Write their new slogan.

Yeah.

A little bit of Buddhism.

Better start producing, start producing T-shirts and, and mugs.

Right.

The, um, um… But I think if you were gonna choose one, I'd choose that

one, if we were gonna have anything.

For sure.

If you could just have, if you could go carte blanche across the whole