In this episode of Mind Your Wedding Business, Kevin Dennis sits down with Adrienne Gardner, sales and business strategist for wedding and event professionals, to discuss one of the biggest decisions business owners face: when to expand your team.

Hiring your first employee is often seen as a milestone of growth, but Adrienne explains why it’s important to first understand your motivation for expanding. Together, Kevin and Adrienne explore how to evaluate whether your business is truly ready to hire by looking at profitability, demand, and the overall health of your operations.

They discuss the importance of tracking lost opportunities due to availability, understanding the difference between being busy and being profitable, and having a financial cushion before bringing on full-time help. Adrienne also shares why clear systems and expectations are critical for setting new hires up for success and how hiring out of desperation can create long-term challenges.

If you’re considering growing your team, this episode offers practical guidance to help wedding professionals expand their businesses thoughtfully and sustainably.

Adrienne Gardner is a sales and business strategist for wedding and event professionals. With over a decade of experience in events, venues, and leadership, she helps creatives understand their numbers, price with confidence, and build systems that support sustainable growth.

Highlights

• Understanding your motivation for expansion

• Tracking lost business opportunities due to availability

• The difference between being busy and being profitable

• Having a financial cushion before hiring

• Creating systems and expectations for new hires

• Avoiding hiring out of desperation

• The difference between 1099 contractors and employees

• Considering part-time hires as a first step

Connect with Adrienne:

Website

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Facebook

LinkedIn

Connect with Kevin:

Wedding IQ

Fantasy Sound

Instagram

YouTube

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LinkedIn

All right, folks, welcome to another episode of Mind Your Wedding Business. I'm your host, Kevin Dennis, and I'm here with Adrienne Gardner. ⁓ And she's going to be talking to us today about, is it time to expand, question mark. And we're going to get into that. But before we do, Adrienne, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how we got you here today?

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me, Kevin. Excited to be here. So yeah, my name is Adrienne. So I've been in hospitality for 25-ish years. I started off like a lot of you guys as a wedding planner and had my own business. I grew that into a venue management company. So I had that for quite a few years, managed a bunch of properties in Denver, Colorado. And from there, I jumped into some full-time employment. Like a lot of us kind of bounce around a

Mm.

bit ⁓ and I like to do consulting and speaking and I also help out some hospitality and creative businesses with their sales and operational improvements. And I'm here today because I like your show.

⁓ thank you. I appreciate that.

⁓ And

like seeing the clips and I feel like there's tremendous value to what the people you bring on the show and even sometimes I'm listening and like, that's good. And I'll like write something down. I'm like, I like how that sounds. So yeah, excited to if there's anything I can do to help out our community and all for it. So here I am.

I love it

because that's what it's about. It's all about the community. But I appreciate you're the first one to ever say that. So I really appreciate that. Thank you so much. So ⁓ all right. So we're talking about talking about time to expand more staff, more work. How do you know you're actually ready for your first full time hire? So I'm really excited to jump into that. So when are you you know, when is it time to or you know, how do you know it's time to expand?

That was good.

Sure.

You know what's funny? It's like you're ready, but you're also never ready to give like good context. I feel like, you know, to start broad, right?

Well, I.

Well, it's funny

because when I was preparing for the episode, was thinking back to when I hired my first person. was like, I was never ready for that. Never. No. No.

Yeah. No, no, no.

So as an entrepreneur, obviously there's got to be a little bit of.

What's that 10 cup phrase, like, grip it and rip it, right? You gotta have a little bit of that. ⁓ But I think we all grow and probably you too, you get a little older, you get a little wiser, you look back and you're like, man, I should have maybe thought about a few of these things. So I'm gonna try to share some of those today, but also at the same time have a realistic understanding.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

that we're not here for a long time, right? And a lot of these businesses won't be around forever. So yeah, there has to be a little bit of risk involved and a little bit of like, hey, no, I want to have a larger business. So this is what I'm going to try to do. Right. So, you know, you can't be afraid, but

As I tell my daughter when she's scared of stuff, we have a family saying like, I'm scared or I'm afraid. And you're like, so what do we do? I do it scared. So you just do it anyways. ⁓ But I actually compiled a list of questions that if I were to go back to my first full time hire, I probably would have asked myself these questions. ⁓ And my first one was ⁓ a big question was, why would I want to expand?

Yeah?

Okay?

Okay, I love it.

So I would encourage you to start with why, right? So, and it hopefully isn't for any sort of ego based reason, like, everybody else has more people than me, or, you know, everyone says I'm really good, so I should expand, right? Like try to shelve those things. I know it's very hard to, but you know, putting those things aside. And why do you want to expand? Have you always dreamed of having a larger business? Do you want to be more in a leadership role instead of an operator? You know, kind of drilling into I think, or are you burnt out?

Okay.

That's okay if that's a reason why you want to expand we'll go into that as well today But understanding I think at your base level why you wish to expand because there's plenty of people and there's plenty of you know groups that I you know that I work with that Have no desire to expand they're like this is what I this is where I want to stay I make good money. I pay my bills. I'm good, you know, and then other ones are like I'm bored What's next? So I think it's a yeah, so I think it's

Yeah.

⁓ okay. I love starting

with the Y.

Start with the why

right? You know, we've all probably read that that Simon book too, you know start with your why but understand what's really motivating you to have those feelings I think is is really important because obviously, you know, we'll drill into the the money and ideal scenarios for cash flow But you know if you don't really understand why you're doing it. I would urge you to just not and wait

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And looking back, I don't think I knew the why. I just was trying to handle the demand that was coming. You know what I'm saying? But I guess that is a little bit of the why. yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

yeah. Yeah. But that it is, it is. Yeah. If you're turning away business, right? So that's a lot of, that's

a lot of why's it's like, you know, there's just you, right? And you know, you, you booked on a Saturday, you get four more leads, you know, so I do think it's very important that as people are looking to expand, you should be keeping track of the deals you lose due to availability.

Yeah, all right, I love it.

So a

little bit of proof of concept, if you will, and to kind of give you a little bit of hopefully like, well, I know that I'm going to have the jobs to support this person. Because a lot of times you want to hire somebody, you're like, OK, I want to get them X amount of jobs. But there's so much unknown. But if you can go back and say, OK, over the last two seasons, I have lost X amount of revenue because of availability, OK, that makes me feel a little bit better.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Yeah. Okay. So again, so what are my questions like again was am I busy or this is one of my notes. I was brainstorming this morning. Am I busy or am I profitable? Right. So one of the things I worked with a client on recently that I felt like really supported this conversation today was understanding your true net off of every job.

I love it. ⁓ OK.

And I'm not just talking about, let's say you're a planner or a DJ, I'm not just talking about the five hours you put in or the 12 hours you put in that day, but all the stuff that leads to that, right?

Yeah, from

booking to... Yeah. Yeah.

The whole shebang, the

whole shebang and you know, tracking your time. I know a lot of apps do it, but having a good knowledge of these are my different services. This is how much labor is put into it. And then factoring in, of course, all of your expenses. But I'm usually a little surprised at times when people don't really know how much they make off of a job. So if you don't really know that, how can you ever understand how you can factor in another human being?

Mm-hmm.

Good point.

And I'm sure, you know, and everybody wants to take care of their staff. They do. They want to take good care of them. They have the best intentions in the whole wide world. But one of the best things you can do is have a realistic expectation of the financial performance of your business. Right? Cause I think people can deal with just about anything as long as it's transparent and real. Right?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a good point.

Yeah, but it

probably gives you realistic, like, all right, if I hire someone, I pay him X amount, and we have this job, I'm going to need 30 more jobs to pay this, or whatever that, you know, math, you could do simple math. At that point, it's simple math.

Yeah.

It's simple math and you should run literally all of those, you know, ideal scenarios. And I think one of the follow up questions to that is like, you know, can I, can I afford to pay this person? But it's also, you know, can I afford to pay this person if things aren't great? Right.

⁓ okay.

Okay.

So

Yep.

I'm say that's probably a whole nother podcast. That's like a... And I'm here in California,

so it's really, really, we're really crap or cranked down on all that stuff. So yeah. yeah.

strict on stuff. exactly.

So what I know some some states I see are like the Wild West, right? But you know, again, like thinking COVID, you know, it kind of showed us again, you might be chugging along, but you know, things can slap you upside the head. Very much. Our businesses are so contingent on relationships. So you know, let's say you're in good with a couple of great venues, a couple of great planners, they refer you

Mm-hmm.

so much business and you're expanding based on the expectation of performance of that relationship. I'm not telling you not to, I'm just saying to understand that level of risk that you're doing because you are attaching yourself to another person's business and just like, know, they could decide to go get a full-time job. They could decide that they don't want to come back after having a baby.

Yeah.

And then what does that do to your business and what you you systems you have in place. So again, I encourage you to kind of look again like at the health of your business. But and you know, again, there what what can you do to survive? The golden rule is to have, you know, three to six months of money in the bank for that person.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right? So if you're going to pay

them, yeah. And that can be a lot of money for these small businesses. So, and I'll be super honest, I did not have that when I hired my first person. I knew I, the way you said the first part, I'm like, he was a lot like me. And, ⁓ you know, but I'll tell you, I lost, I lost sleep. I'd be like sweating bullets. You know, the stress is massive. So if you can get ahead,

yeah.

I'll be honest. I didn't either

Yeah. Yeah.

No stress. yeah.

then you know it's going to make everything a lot easier. It's going to help you sleep a little bit better too at night knowing that you have that little bit of cushion that yes if that venue decides to sell which is happening and all over the place you know then you're not attached to it.

Yeah, well.

Well, even like so like where I am in California, we have a lot of wineries, you know, so we work with a lot of these winery properties, but I have friends across the country that like ⁓ work at all these different hotels and the hotel people are very, you know, one day I'm a Marriott next next year. I'm a Hilton and then the year after that, I'm a Hyatt. You know, they just bounce from hotel to hotel. They're not there's no longevity where I feel like I'm pretty fortunate like

Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

One of the properties that I'm working at, my contact's been there over 20 years. So I have a long, that's what I'm saying. to have relation, it's a lot of that is building these relationships and maintaining them because you can't count on the next person that comes into that hotel is gonna still refer you. Like, yeah, there's a lot of stress that goes into that.

That's rare.

Mm-hmm.

That one person.

Yeah.

There is. so, you know, having a diversified relationships, having a diversified portfolio of different types of clients, types of events, all those things just helps you be more resilient. If something happens, right, then it's not that big of a deal. ⁓ You know, and it doesn't, you know, create this huge ripple effect, you got to lay somebody off or whatever those things, those things might be, which of course, you know, we want to avoid at all costs, right?

Yeah. No.

Yeah. ⁓ yeah.

Yeah. Well, I mean, COVID, I was going to say COVID was what the what really, I mean, people, we people that get laid off. And then when you know, and I called it the big reset coming out of it, because we went here in California, our last event was the weekend before we shut down. We had weddings, and then we didn't do another wedding. So that was March. And then we didn't do another wedding until ⁓

Go ahead.

Mm-hmm.

Valentine's Day the following year, you know, so that's how far we went without any events because we were just were so locked down but because of that so many people in our market left to become real estate agents and all that so it was this big big reset it was like having to relearn these props the the staff at a property that we You know pre-covid had a phenomenal relationship with and then you know and then

Hmm.

Sure

Right.

Trying to maintain the relationships, trying to maintain being on the preferred vendor list, it was a very difficult time because of all that. ⁓

Absolutely. so,

you know, I think everything, know, in being an entrepreneur, these small businesses, like you learn so much, right? And I think the biggest mistake is if you repeat the same mistake, right? I think you're gonna make mistakes and you're gonna, you know, maybe jump a little too soon or too late or whatever those things may be. But of course, it's just an opportunity to learn. I feel like when I started expanding, one of the things that I wish I had done differently was

Mm-hmm.

I didn't really have some really solid systems. relied a lot on my talent as a planner, as a coordinator. ⁓ But as far as when I had my first hire, who's still one of my great friends, which I love that, ⁓ it was a little bit like, hi, welcome to the party. You know, so I was so lucky.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

that she was organically very good at her job. I got so lucky with her and I did not get lucky with some other ones down the line. So down the line it definitely showed that I did not have these systems. So.

Okay. Yeah.

So you should probably have.

Well, can say so you should

probably have SOPs or some some kind of processes in place before you decide to make this.

Yes, yes.

Right, so if you were gonna replicate what you do, right, whether that's DJ, coordination, planning, whatever, if you were gonna replicate it, how do you train, what are your expectations of that person? And also, having a realistic expectation that they're not you, and they're not the owner of the business, and they're not gonna treat it like their business, because it's not, it's their job.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They're not going to give their blood, sweat, and tears for it like you have. So it's going to be different. So having a realistic expectation of how that's going to be different. But yes, setting them up for success with these procedures. We started getting really good at it with our venue management company, with the procedures at each facility, how we trained event managers. And it got so much more effective and efficient. ⁓ But yeah, definitely initially we

Yeah.

We didn't have a lot of that and it would show because I think you had a hire that was okay. They were capable, but because our systems weren't super great, they struggled. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Well,

and I was going to ask, you think that the like a new hire, when you bring them in there, you're setting them up for more success by having all this in place? Plus you might get a little bit more buy in from them because it, it, you know, it's like, I, I need to do X, Y, and Z because you know, I got to keep up and it, or, or if I come in and you're, you're coming into a hot mess, they're like, I could be a hot mess and be lazy and do what, you know, so I,

It's kind of, feel like it goes both ways there.

yeah, so I mean...

You set the standard, right, of course. So if you have high standards of yourself, of organization, communication with your clients, you document all these things, you set the pace as the owner when you initially maybe bring in your first new hire. And yes, absolutely, but I also think, again, hindsight, as you grow, I think having a level of organization and processes, it also shows a level of care and respect for that individual as they come into an organization.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm, okay.

biggest horror story that I share sometimes is you know working for a bigger company and having staff show up for their first day and their computers aren't ready their computer didn't even get delivered yet like they're not ready for that new person so you know put yourself in your new hires position it's your first day like you know what would you want your first day to be like right ⁓

Yeah.

That's a good, good, good,

What would you want that experience? What would you want to know? What expectations do you want to have set? Because most people want to do their jobs very well. Nobody really goes into it like this slacker mode or I want to fail mode. They want to do well, but they need you to help them do it. ⁓

Yeah.

Well,

I've had one of those, but anyway.

Did you? Well, that's

what we just call it. As we say, know, Kevin, we all make a bad hire. It's OK. And you as a leader, you got to recognize when you did it and not not mess around too long and just be like, yeah, that wasn't a great choice. Let's let's keep it moving.

Yeah. Yeah.

No, still,

I still, PSD from that one, just, just, that person haunts me. Anytime I see someone that even looks remotely like that person, I'm like,

I think we all have those moments and I think sometimes, and that goes into, I think another topic of this when it comes to expansion is like a desperate hire, right? So like hiring at a desperation, like I can't expand, I'm so burnt out, I'm so tired, but I don't really have the cash in the bank. I need somebody to come in and start working Saturday.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you're kind of if you're starting if you're going after it in that way It's probably not going to be good, right? Like number one, you know, maybe the money isn't quite right You don't really have that dialed in number two You're gonna compromise on something if you're looking if you try to hire that fast and out of that level of desperation Probably potentially not the right fit You know, you might end up with a 1099 versus an employee I do believe employees build businesses and 1099s fill in

Yeah.

gaps. think that's a very clear difference between what you're trying to do and that kind of goes back to that why again, ⁓ you know, of those, you know, again, are you trying to build a big business or you're just trying to fill in a couple of Saturdays?

Yeah.

Whoa!

I mean, in my market, it's like, you know, they show up and I'm like, who are you working for today? You know, right? And I don't have a problem with it. The clients don't seem to care. The execution is still solid. But I think, you know, there's no ⁓ repping of brand loyalty when that kind of happens. But again, if that's a gap that you're just trying to fill in for a little short amount of time, I don't really think it's that bad. But again, if your goal is to build a business with brand loyalty and consistent

⁓ okay. Yeah.

Yeah?

employees and those sort of things. You know, if you're hiring somebody who's also coordinating for four other companies, like what do you expect? Like that's not their fault. You know, that's...

Yeah, yeah, because that's

well, and that could hurt your relationships with all these other companies because like, who are they, you know, they're building a relationship for themselves, but they're also maybe they're there working for your company, but they're, you know, maybe feel a little bit more loyal to the other company. And I could see a lot of a lot of bad going on with that.

Right, right, right. So ⁓ yeah, and I think that brings me to another sideways that I feel like expansion will magnify your problems if you have them. So, you know, I think like, you know,

⁓ OK.

And I'll give you some ideas around that, right? So let's say ⁓ you have a problem controlling communication with your clients, right? They step all over you. I feel like that's always a common thing. Like, you know, you're too much of a people pleaser and ⁓ you know, I text them at 10 PM. Okay. So let's say you're texting your clients at 10 PM or you're emailing your clients at 10 PM and your new hire just happens to be on that email and they see you do it. They see you doing that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're setting the standard that that's what you expect. Whether you believe it or not, I've been that person who's like, just because I do it doesn't mean you should do it. Dumb dumb, such a dumb dumb. Sorry, sorry ladies who I told that to. I'm so sorry. But you know, but they saw me doing it and they wanted to do a good job for me. So they started doing it too. So we started with this problem of

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

you know, not having a good work-life balance. I kind of don't like that cliche term, but you know what I mean. But not doing that and me kind of saying it was okay. And then I bring these people in and they see me doing it. And then all of a sudden they all have my problem. I'm like, where does this come from? How do you guys all have my problems? So yeah, you expand it.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, well, and I mean, even with

that, there's a lot of tech tools now that, know, maybe you might, yeah, I'm gonna say you might work better at 10 o'clock at night, but you can then schedule emails to go out at 9.05 the next morning. So then it looks like you're working, you know, normal business hours and that's, and even SMS now, you could do that with SMS too, so.

You don't need to do it.

I love that. Yeah, it's, it's

so good. You know, I say like hide your crazy, right? Like, don't, don't let them see it. Right?

Yeah.

Yeah, mean last

night I'm involved in the local Little League. We had a Little League board meeting, but I was so amped up from what happened at the board meeting. I came home and I jumped on my email and I was working on my email, but I didn't send anything. I you know, I scheduled everything, but I worked until like about 11, 30, 12 o'clock last night.

See.

Yeah, I think that's right. I love the schedule to send feature. I think sometimes I'll like schedule to send six and I'll accidentally send two of them. I'm like, damn. Oh no. And they're like, ah. And then undoubtedly it's one person who's like, why are you working so late? You're like, yeah, I didn't mean to hit send. Didn't mean to do that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love it. All right. Yeah, Emily. Yeah, it works.

All right, Emily, Emily, just because we had a weird pause there.

Emily, let me pull up my notes here. Oh, yeah, you go. You go. We'll kind of bounce around. Yeah.

Well, I have some questions too for you. okay.

Okay. So you were talking earlier about being overwhelmed or burned out, like when you're trying to expand, can you like explain like, is that a good time to hire if you're overwhelmed or burned out? Or is that a bad time to hire or does that fall under the desperation category?

man, I think it really depends on you as a person a little bit. I think some people can be burnt out a little overworked, but still have a good eye on their business, a a solid understanding of their goals for their business, right? And then other people are not like that.

Okay.

Mmm.

other people, you know, you're tired, you're irrational. So I think you kind of got to, you know, again, look at your why look at your foundation, because yes, maybe that stressful scenario was a trigger you needed to make a choice.

Okay.

You know, I think in business we all have trigger events, right? Something will happen that will make you do something for your business. But go back to kind of does this align with my long-term objectives? And if it was generated out of stress, well. You know, if you've done the homework, you got the money, you know, it's in alignment with what you want to do, but it just so happens that you're really stressed out right now and that's what you needed to go ahead and make this scary decision, then okay.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I wouldn't necessarily be deterred by an emotional response to how you feel about your business in general. I'm definitely one of those people that I think, you know, your left and right brains, you know, all that can live together. You know, your emotional side and your logical side can work together and support one another. So I would be listening to how you feel, but then go back to your goals and your intentions. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. Now do you think,

like I'm thinking about hiring someone, is it better to hire someone part time to like put our toe in the water, like dabble in this first or, you know, jump fully into a full-time position or is it based on need or, you know, is there a right or wrong to any of that?

.

Yeah. ⁓

man, there's so many different scenarios that you could go with. I would say it's based on a few things. It's based on your current need. Again, are you trying to just kind of clone yourself, which I feel like is a fairly normal thing in our industry. I just want to take more jobs. I just want to do this. Are you creating an entirely different role?

Okay. All right.

Meaning, are you looking to hire somebody to take over your administrative stuff? Maybe your marketing, maybe your social media. Are you building an entire job? Right? So first and foremost, like outline what you want this person to do. Right? Get on chat GPT, get on Indeed, see how people are, you know, look at all these different jobs, right? But figure out where your pain points are and what you're trying to do. I would say, you know, if you're not looking to copy paste yourself,

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

It's always a good idea to look at kind of your day to day as an entrepreneur and look at what is a task that is not so related to me as the owner, as my personality, right? And I think that's why administrative, marketing, social media, those are a good first hire. If it's not related to ops, those are a great first hire. A lot of times you can find somebody to do those sort of things part time from home at a reasonable hourly rate.

Yeah. Okay.

So it's not necessarily, so that's not a bad way to dip your toe in the water of a new hire. But I mean, for me, my first real hire was a full-time coordinator. So, and how I kind of landed there was the demand was there. So I had tracked that I was losing jobs.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

I was turning away business. I was like, okay. And then I knew I could, the volume was there to support this person, right? And my objective was to start, was to build, I think I was trying to get three, two to three coordinators. And then from there, I was gonna look at a support and person for all of us. And that was kind of my plan. So again, I think everybody kind of has to figure out their process there, but.

I, the demand was there. I could kind of afford them. Let's be honest. It was tight, right? But for me, the risk was, the risk was worth the squeeze. It was important. It was an important step in my business. And I did a lot of very basic math. So meaning like for the next year,

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

This is my entire business. Now I'm factoring in this person. How many jobs do I need? How many meetings do I need to have per week? So I factored everything back in order to support that individual. So I'm like, okay, if I am not booking two jobs per week, I am off track to pay for this person. So I knew all the time what needed to be done to stay on track to afford this person.

Yeah.

And I would say, know, and I think, you know, speaking with somebody that I'm working with right now is ⁓ their struggle of finding a quality part-time person.

It's hard. Yeah.

is hard, right?

It's like, you know, it's a gig type situation. You know, there's the urgency that you're maybe after. I also asked this person, like, if you're looking for urgency and response and all of these things out of a part time employee, that's concern too, right? Like you need to be looking at the job and what you're after and what you're creating.

Mm-hmm.

⁓ And that being said, but maybe you can't afford a full-time person, right? So then you need to adjust what that job looks like so it's more realistic to a part-time person. I think what I see a lot of is people are after full-time engagement, meaning like, only want you to work 20 hours a week, but I want you to do what I want you to do when I need you to do it.

Mm-hmm.

I need you to be responsive to me. I need all of these things, but I can only afford you at 20 bucks an hour. Right? And then the pool of talent isn't matching that need. So, and it's okay. If you can only afford that, then you need to adjust your expectation.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's funny you say that the 20 bucks an hour it's I'm here in California so you know in and outs are big here and so I always look because in and out always has a sign that they're hiring and how much they're hiring for and I'm always like I'll be in the drive-through and I'm like well we need to raise everyone's rates because you know we need to be a dollar or two pay more than a dollar or two than in and out does to try to attract these people because they think they can go flip burgers and

you know, make all this money because in our market, it in and out pays very well.

Yeah, and they're similar in the Colorado market as well. But yeah, you bring up such a good point of being very much aware of what people can make doing literally anything around you. Right. And it's like, you know, in my previous world, was truck drivers. Right. So it's like, what what can a guy make at Amazon versus what can a guy make delivering chairs? We should know that. Right. Like, that's important. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

No.

Mm.

Yeah.

You know, so yes, to your point, like you got to know what's going on or else just be like, ⁓ where did all my people go? They all went over here to eat an out burger or they're all driving for Amazon.

Yeah.

Well, it's funny, I

just thought of something. I was the WIPA national president for ⁓ several years. ⁓ I went to Colorado to do, or Denver area to do their ⁓ SOP training. And I was talking with some of them there. And the caterers were struggling to get servers because they were making more money working for all the cannabis folks there. And so it was like the struggle's real. And they were having a hard time like,

Justifying raising the price for you know with the clients, you know, it was but again, that's the same as in it out burger either Just having your eyes open to what's going on out

Yeah, exactly. it's, you know, nobody says you have to make adjustments or compromise. You do what you think is right. But if you don't know, then you of course have no idea, you know, how to adjust. Right. ⁓ But I, you know, I would say kind of at my core to answer that big question fully, I do believe if, if at all possible, full time employees, right, try to get people that will help you build your business, right? Try to get people that are, you know,

Yeah.

Yeah.

that you can nurture, can work with, that you can help grow. Those are the relationships. then all of sudden that person's not your coordinator, they're your marketing manager. And they're helping you build relationships with venues all over the city. This is a true story. So I think that that means a lot. And it shows your investment in those individuals. But again, but they cost down. math's got a math.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah it does. All right,

yeah exactly and it's simple math you know and it's not really difficult math to do as well so all right. Yeah, no it is. Yeah.

It's not, it's scary math though. find most don't lie. They don't like to do it because it's scary. ⁓

and it can be off putting and you're like, man, I really need to raise this division's price point by like 20%. I'm like, yeah, yesterday or else why do you have it?

Yeah. Yeah,

I agree. All right, you touched on it a little bit earlier, but are there any long-term consequences if someone hires or brings someone on too early? Does it set up to fail? I we touched on it, but we were looking at the immediate, but long-term.

Mmm sure. Yeah

Yeah. You.

Sure. I mean, you go broke. I'm just kidding. That's a little dramatic. I mean, slightly dramatic. mean, so yeah. And I mean, again, a little level of risk, but yeah, let's say you hire too early. Let's say things get slow. Money's not in the bank. You know, I think that

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

level of transparency with your employees is okay. I know some people will disagree with that and that's okay that like if your business is in financial trouble I'm not saying you should ring the fire alarms, but shouldn't you maybe talk to them before you bounce a check? Just a suggestion. ⁓ I know that that's a scary thing. It's a sad thing, but at the same time those people deserve it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So

I would say, you know, and I'm always surprised at when you give people kind of honest information. They're like, okay, right. And yeah, they might bail. They might bail on you for it. But at the same time, maybe you'll you'll build some amazing relationship with this individual. You have no idea. But anyways, so to kind of go back to your your question there. So I hired too early. Yeah. Let's say the money's not right. I lose some relationships, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Of course, you could ⁓ let that person go. You go back to being a solo entrepreneur. And then maybe you try again. So I think sometimes there's a little bit like, so what if you messed up? ⁓ And so what if people knew that you had an employee and it didn't work out?

Yeah.

Who cares? Who cares? ⁓ So I would say obviously that's maybe the worst case scenario, right? ⁓ Is that, but I would say obviously keeping an eye on your money so you do it before you're not in a really, really bad spot and your entire business is in jeopardy that you probably used to pay your mortgage and sustain your life, right? Like. ⁓

Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I think if you're borrowing money from one source to pay for another, to pay for your employees, it's a very bad sign, right? So that's not great. ⁓ But yeah. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I would say, yeah, worst case scenario, it doesn't work out.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean at that point you gotta be looking at your bottom line. What are you doing wrong? Yeah

you let that person go, right? ⁓ Or you drop their hours. Just say, I did that during COVID with one, you be like, hey, I want to keep you, I can't do it. Like, I can't, but I can afford you it here. ⁓ If it doesn't work for you, I totally understand. I'll be a reference for you. I love you to death. I was like, but, but if you want to, I can keep you here, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

and then it's up to them on what they want to do. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I agree. Yeah,

makes sense. So what's the hard truth about hiring that wedding pros don't want to hear?

⁓ that you have to do the math before you do it i think that that is that is my that is my big thing for you guys is well over 50 percent of people i talked to don't do that

Okay.

Okay.

⁓

And so you have to do the math. You have to have a strong understanding. And I think it's interesting. It's like a lot of people in hospitality, you know, you're like the extrovert, right? You're the fun person. You're all these things. You're like, but I'm not really good at accounting. And it's like, you don't have to be. There's robots that do it for you now. Right? Like you don't have to be good at it. Just give it all your stuff and ask if you can afford an employee and it will point blankly tell you no. And you're like, darn, darn it.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

⁓ So I would say that's the big thing. And I would say my other kind of my look, my other little help would be beware of the 1099s. Beware of that. ⁓ You know, there's horror stories in every market of that going really backwards with the IR and the S, you know, and the penalties that can evolve around that.

Yeah.

But then on top of that, again, I don't really think it's really great for your brand to have people hustling all over the city for a bunch of different people. I don't think that's a great. And if that's the only thing you can do, maybe evaluate it, maybe think about it.

though.

Hahaha

Exactly.

make that experience. And I think the biggest thing is relationships, because what we do in this industry is all about relationships. And if you're not, you know, and you're I have a saying, it's so true, though, but you're only as good as your last event. And if this person goes and messes up your event, and, you know, it's hard to build back. But if you're there and you have that relationship with someone, it's hey, we messed up and this is what we did and how to fix it. you know, it just I think there's a little bit more forgiveness in there when it comes that way.

Absolutely,

Yeah.

absolutely. And that contractor is gonna bring their own systems, right? They're not gonna do it, you know, they're not gonna do it the way you want, right? Like, you know, you can try to get them to do it your way, but that doesn't mean they're gonna do it. They, cause they don't technically have to. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

No.

Yeah.

I agree. All right, we're getting close to the

end. was there anything on your list that we missed that you wanted to touch on? Because I have one more question, and then we'll wrap it up if you don't.

double-check Emily as I'm looking to the side over here. ⁓ We talked about hiring out of desperation.

Yeah. ⁓

Expansion causes problems. Systems, we did that. As well as you. Why you expand. Have a consistent demand. Yeah, I think I'm pretty solid. If you want to ask one more or something, go for it.

All right.

All right. Perfect. All right. So if listeners take away just one thing about expanding their team, what should it be?

Put you on the spot. ⁓

Why, oh wow, okay.

Why do you want to expand? Why do you want to expand? And it shouldn't be because the planner next to you at the networking event has two employees. That should not be the answer.

It's the why. Okay.

I love it.

Okay, I love it. No, and that's a hard truth because you got to know what you're doing and why and because if you don't have the why, I don't think you have the buy-in from whoever you're hiring.

not gonna

work. yeah it won't hold. it'll look good for two years and then you'll be like what happened? yeah

Yeah.

Yeah. No.

And you got to be in it to win it. all right. Adrian, thank you so much. Where can listeners connect with you and learn more about all your wonderful work that you're doing?

Yeah.

Thank you, Kevin. Yeah.

⁓ thank

you so much. you guys follow me. Check me out on Instagram at Gardener Effect on my website, GardenerEffect.com. ⁓ Yeah. Thanks for having me, Kevin. It's been a ton of fun.

OK.

Yeah, it has been fun. And folks, we'll have all of Adrian's information in the show notes and in the email blast that goes out. And if you're not signed up for the email blast, make sure you do, because we send them out every week with all the good additional information from the episode as well. So Adrian, thank you for being here today. We really appreciate your time and effort. And folks, we'll see you next time on another episode of Mind Your Wedding Business.

Thank you.

Thanks everybody.

Bye! Emily.