Kevin Hughes shares his incredible journey of resilience and healing from a childhood marked by poverty, abuse, and the challenges of being raised by a sociopathic mother. In his debut book, "SocioMom," he reveals the profound impact these experiences had on his life and the long path to recovery that followed. Throughout our conversation, we dive deep into themes of identity, survival, and redemption, discussing how they resonate with readers and how they shaped Kevin's understanding of forgiveness and trust. He emphasizes the importance of leaning into spirituality and mental health as vital components of overcoming trauma. Join us for an inspiring discussion that highlights the power of storytelling and the strength found in vulnerability, proving that no matter the odds, we can all find a way to thrive.

Kevin Hughes, a renowned author and mental health advocate, shares his compelling journey from a childhood filled with trauma to a life dedicated to helping others. Growing up in Lynchburg, Virginia, he faced the challenges of poverty and abuse, experiences that would shape his future and inform his work. In this conversation, he discusses the pivotal moments in his life, including his service in the Navy and his eventual decision to write his debut book, 'Social Mom.' This powerful narrative explores the complexities of his relationship with his sociopathic mother and how he navigated years of disassociation. Hughes emphasizes the themes of resilience, identity, and redemption, providing listeners with a deep understanding of how overcoming such challenges can lead to personal growth and healing. As he shares his insights on forgiveness and the importance of mental health, listeners are invited to reflect on their own experiences and the ways they can find healing in their journeys.

Takeaways:

• In this episode, Kevin Hughes shares his incredible journey of overcoming adversity through resilience and faith, emphasizing how mental health is an essential part of overall health.
• Kevin's powerful story highlights the importance of seeking help and trying different approaches when faced with challenges, underscoring that change often requires stepping out of one's comfort zone.
• The conversation delves into the complex nature of forgiveness, particularly in the context of forgiving one’s abuser, illustrating how this process can be both challenging and transformative.
• Through discussing his book, SocioMom, Kevin reveals the difficulties of writing about his traumatic past, while also expressing the healing power of sharing one's story with others.
• Kevin emphasizes that trauma and mental health struggles can affect anyone, regardless of their background or upbringing, reminding listeners that they are not alone in their experiences.
• The episode concludes with a call to action for listeners to embrace their own narratives and understand that sharing their stories can inspire change and healing in themselves and others.

Welcome to Narrative Voices, where we explore the stories that shape lives and inspire change.

Today we're honored to have Kevin Hughes, a number one best selling author, award winning consultant with the Fortune 5 company and a passionate mental health advocate.

Kevin's journey began in Lynchburg, Virginia where he overcame poverty and abuse, served our country in the United States Navy, and graduated from Lynchburg University.

His debut book, Social mom, reveals his powerful story of surviving a psychopathic mother living in disassociation for decades and ultimately finding healing and purpose.

When he's not writing or mentoring at risk youth, Kevin enjoys the outdoors, music and time with his chocolate lab.

Winston, get ready for an inspiring conversation with resilience, recovery and thriving against all odds.

Kevin, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me.

Keith, a pleasure to be here.

Good to have you on.

I'm going to ask you my favorite question.

Kind of get us diving in here.

What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

Yeah, I'd have to give a coin toss on that and share two brief ones there.

From a spiritual side I think we could all benefit from.

Listen, listen, love, love.

I've been told that there and I think that fits today and always will.

But the other one is a personal, more secular for me is if you want different and better, you have to try different and better.

We both definitely makes sense.

Yeah, we all get stuck in our ways and circumstances and wonder why we can't get there and what's happening.

But a lot of times you have to try something different, you know, if you want a different outcome.

We get really stuck mentally, spiritually and physically in life.

Oh definitely.

And you know, like we talked about before we got on the podcast a little bit, you know, sometimes those difficulties in life are the things that shape us more so than the positive experiences and how we overcome those.

And by the power of faith and resilience really kind of last for us for a long time.

They shape the character, who we become.

They really do.

You know, I've had people ask about this and how can you, you know, go through and still have on your spirituality and really help advocate and think about that.

But the truth is, as you go through the book and what all that, I truly believe God was there in all those circumstances.

Whether it was a four year old boy where no one physically could take me away, he helped provide that dissociation and that kind of white room bubble for me to survive all the way through many other things in my journey.

While it hasn't been an easy one there I Certainly can see that work in there, and it defines to put us where we need to be today, for sure.

Awesome.

So let's dive into your book a little bit.

I'm kind of curious.

You lived through poverty, abuse, trauma.

Can you share what inspired you to finally tell your story in Social Month?

Yeah, Keith, that one was really a struggle there.

And I know as a pastor, you've heard this many times there about people that are really wrestling with God.

I know it's in the scripture there, but this was one I wrestled with completely there.

And while I started out, it wasn't to really write a book, but as I went through the journey and I was getting closer to completion on that, it's like, oh, my gosh, I can't put this out there.

I don't want to share all of this.

You know, a lot of this is taboo.

You know, there's, you know, mental, physical, sexual abuse of all times and all sorts of things happening and going on.

But what inspired me is that wrestling with God, it kept coming back where I kept hearing from him.

You know, it does you no good to keep your own journey.

You've lived this journey, but you don't know what your journey might mean to someone else, to know that you can overcome and thrive.

So that's really what sent me out there to inspired me to move forward with that.

But I have to be honest, it was begrudgingly and much long.

Almost as seems like as long as the scripture battle of wrestling in there, that was going on with this, for sure.

I can't imagine.

You know, this is a very personal story, and it's your story.

I'm sure every chapter was kind of reliving some of the past.

Was there a particular emotionally challenging chapter that you had to write that really kind of exposed even more of your vulnerabilities than others?

Yeah, I think there's a couple.

One I will lead right off in chapter one with, you know, being honest of where I was.

I was working in a Fortune 5 and well, well regarded, high up and very good, but started to unravel with this stuff.

Come to find out that that authority figure I didn't know at the time was triggering the memory of Mom.

But I really start out sitting in the HR hot seat there.

So a lot of people aren't honest about, you know, their regular work life, about what happened and all that.

But probably even more so was chapter three, when I go into the Emdr and have those first salient recalls of memories of the actual abuse there.

And going through reliving that session.

I was in the room with.

The therapist knew, cognitively, very rational guy, knew I was there and safe.

But man, I was back in that small house, Keith, living and feeling and couldn't breathe and going through all of those motions and all of that.

And.

And when we were.

When I was writing and going through that part there, that really took some time to decidestep a bit there where the journey, like I said, it took four and a half years.

There was a lot of off ramps and back and forth on this going, but those were the two that probably stood out the most.

So you had to learn to protect yourself from all of this as a young person.

How did you, after decades of disassociating yourself from what happened to you, how did you dig into that, those emotions to spiritually, mentally prepare yourself to, you know, revisit those suppressed memories?

That was probably one of the most difficult things of all, Keith there.

While there's, you know, a lot of challenges that I went through, probably going back to that because it's almost like trying to either write with a different hand, speak a new language.

Because I really, as I refer to myself in the book as kind of a cyborg, like, you know, Schwarzenegger, the Terminator movie there.

I just kind of read and read the room and modeled responses based on what I saw because I had no real foundation or connection.

So I probably leaned more in, you know, to two things.

One, my grit, which has taken me so far, you know, to move forward.

Once I realized this is with the cusp of whatever was going on, writing a book, I realized I had to step behind that steel door and see what's really happening.

But too spiritually, I just kind of really try to root myself in faith that I can overcome and I'm not alone in that and I can work through that.

But honestly, it was much more difficult than I'm giving you any answer on that there.

To be honest with you.

There.

It's really something I vacillated, vouched in and out.

It was a 10 year process of therapy, working in and out of these things.

And typical guy, you get to a certain point, hey, I've remembered all this.

I'm good, I'm good.

Ended up in the book going back for round two when I became my abuser's primary care giver for the last 10 years of her life ended up taking bigger toll on me than I realized there.

But it was a journey and not a destination for sure.

Yeah, I can't imagine how hard that is to kind of relive that and have to kind of process all that and then to take care of the person in the end too must have been really challenging.

In your book you bring out three, I think really critical themes and I want to kind of touch on those with you a little bit and that is identity, survival and redemption.

Which of these themes do you feel kind of resonates as you've kind of gotten feedback on your book with your readers and why.

Yeah, that's a great question.

Because all three I've gotten some feedback but I'll kind of do them in reverse order of, you know, the least to the most on that.

I'd say the survival part there.

There's a large community of people that not raised by a sociopath keep.

But trauma doesn't have any measuring stick on that there.

A five second encounter can lead the same emotional and physical scars as a five year encounter there.

So I've gotten feedback on that.

I think identity is very strong because I've struggled with my identity until I found my faith and identity in Christ.

So I've gotten some great feedback on that.

Is people have said that they felt seen in some of the reviews and things in my good Goodreads reviews, a lot of reviews, people are saying they feel seen and all that.

And I've realized that that's resonating important.

But probably, you know, redemption would be the number one on that.

Being brought back or saved, you know, from that, that place in, you know, where you're, where you're stuck in that there, that personally redemption for me and understanding what that meant not just from a biblical sense, but from a secular sense and understanding, you know, how you can let go of some of those things from the past and move forward and be redeemed in your spirituality.

I've gotten a lot of feedback about, you know, it's real easy as you know, as a pastor, you know, secularly, people want to throw rocks at spirituality and religion and Christianity and all the things and all of that.

They're but the redemption and believing in that and standing on that principle for myself and having other people come forward and realizing that they've overcome and leaned that on there there.

I would say redemption is probably number one and identity and survival.

I want to spend a little more time on redemption because I think that's the one concept that if you're not a believer is the hardest for people to kind of grasp.

Because if Someone hurts us.

Our natural inclination is not to say how do I forgive this person and move on.

Our natural desire inclination is to how do I get revenge or even go into the survival mode.

How did you personally process redemption in your life with your mother?

Yeah, and again, I've went to that well a few times.

Honestly, it wasn't.

And I want you listeners and as you know, Keith, there's no to die moment there.

You know, we can, whether it's spirituality or anything, we think, oh my gosh, there it is, Tada.

And a big light shines and all.

But that's not always how God works in these things there.

It works in steps and encounters in people.

But over the redemption starts and forgiveness go hand in hand.

I believe in that.

And I went on a spiritual retreat weekend.

I'd been working through my EMDR and my mental health and, and finding and recovering these memories and moving forward and gotten to a point where I realized, you know, it was daily abuse.

So, you know, how many do you need to continue to remember to do there?

So I stepped back away from that.

And while I understood, you know, faith and religion, I wasn't really dialed in.

And I was, you know, guy, I was playing some basketball with this, hey, you want to come away on this men's weekend thing?

You know, my normal Kevin Terminator response would be heck no.

But something said go.

And I went through the weekend course.

I treated it like a SEAL Team 6 mission, watching, learning, you know, what's going, going to happen, you know, typical, you know, non, what's happening, what's going on here, what's going to happen next?

Got to be ready.

But when I went up at the end of, you know, the weekend, they had an opportunity to go up and choose one of the three pastors and sit and spend some time and you know, and speak with or whatever.

And I of course went to that same mental exercise of who will, who am I going to pick, why and how.

But when I got up there and started to say that I'm struggling with abuse from a my mother and letting go of that, I broke and the spirit was there with me there.

And the pastor explained, forgiveness is not for the person that's wronged you, it's for yourself and a gift to open up your hand and let go and let God do his work on that thing.

But to redeem yourself, you can't be redeemed if you're carrying that ball of chain and vengeance around with you.

So that redemption came on that night and that weekend.

And after he talked to me for a few moments.

There was a few of the brothers around with me there that laid hands on me while he prayed for me.

And they truly felt like.

They said I felt like an oven.

The spirit was truly burning away a lot of that there, that I was hot to the touch, according to them.

And that was my first redemption on doing that.

But what I want the listeners to understand is, like I said, that isn't a tada thing.

You come out feeling great, the Holy Spirit infuses in you, but you still have to continue to work your spiritual and other paths depending on what's going on in your life there.

So I think that was my first point of redemption on that hit.

A lot more micro touches on that.

Caring for mom and going, you know, standing up and having to give her a funeral to someone and all that stuff.

But also as I went into writing this book, I really had to revisit and dial myself back in on that there.

So I know that's a long answer, Keith, but really, redemption, at least maybe it is for some.

But from my experience and others I've been around, it's not just to snap your fingers and oh my gosh, there you go.

It's not like you drank an energy drink and you're ready to go run a race here, but it's something like that.

But it's still a void that you have to continue to work in collaboration with the people God puts in your life to continue to grow and learn and do different, better and receive.

Because I was an empty vessel like we spiritually, we all are until we receive.

But growing up in that environment of abuse and anger and belittlement and things, I had.

I had no foundation.

So it.

It's an ongoing journey there, but it's one I'm blessed to have be involved with.

I'm curious.

I want to talk about their forgiveness piece because again, that's so critical to your book.

How has your forgiveness, maybe your forgiveness meter, I guess I would say, changed from when you first started writing the book till when you got to the end of it.

Did you see a progression in your understanding of forgiveness, your appreciation of forgiveness as you wrote this book?

100% at first, when this was uncovered, you know, the visceral human emotions of anger, frustration, and how could you.

And you know, that we all encounter, whether it's something, you know, someone cut you off in traffic or something, you know, a decade of abuse that in raw, visceral emotion.

So forgiveness to me was more of a word in the Beginning going through this, even with the therapy, as I mentioned in that event, in that spiritual weekend, that helped me get some foundation and understanding.

Read, read a book, Choosing forgiveness by Nancy DeMoss, that really put it in perspective about, you know, when you don't forgive, it's like you're drinking the poison but hoping that someone else gets sick there.

And some other strong spiritual themes that put into that so much.

So read that.

But also after reading it, I probably let a book study four or five times because not to share with others, but I was really continually having to reboot and replay.

Just like an athlete may practice a play or shooting free throws.

I had to keep going back through that to where today it's a softer lens.

And I can look at it through that lens of love and understanding.

I know my wife could tell me, you know, just different things, how I used to get frustrated or angry at different situations in life.

Like we all do that.

She's like, wow, you.

You handled that with grace and upset.

So I can see that as softening.

And again, I go back to what we started about at the beginning, that those circumstances and journeys, how horrible they were, they set the foundation for God to continue to do his working with me.

And he's still to this day there.

I'm not a perfect vessel in that regard, but I'm much more evolved from being that angry, remembering what happened and why and almost losing my job because the woman reminds me of mom and not knowing what's going on.

Wandering around for four years, decades and being frustrated with life to where we are now.

Talking today about that.

It's a phenomenal journey that I am so thankful for God's grace and continue to try to pull that into the foundation of every day as I get going.

Well, that's amazing.

I want to read a quote to you and I want to ask you more about your mother as you have in her book, but it's a opening up of chapter one by Wakefield.

You have children of narcissists learn that love is abuse.

The narcissist teaches them that if someone displeases you, it's okay to harm them and call it love.

You describe your mother as both magnetic and monstrous.

How did that duality shape the understanding of trust and relationships, especially later on in life for you?

Yeah, the trust factor.

I mean it like I said I would truly went like, you know, live my life on a.

Is the Terminator SEAL Team six, you know, hybrid here of, you know, just going through, not trusting anything.

Just.

I look back and it Was just a mess there.

Well, I was successful at work and you know, without work everyone and all, but really laid that foundation because she was so horrible and demonic to me.

But she had.

She's also, besides being a diagnosed sociopath, but she also was diagnosed with extreme narcissism.

So she could charm anyone and outside the house and would work or do that.

A brief aside before I get back to the question on that.

Keith is later in life when assisted living facility.

The last one is where she was before she passed.

Had to go get her and take her to the dentist.

And the time I walk her in, set her down and go up to the counter to make sure that the staff, you know, good Lord, please do not give her any painkillers.

She's going to ask for them and do all of that, you know, take three minutes to check in.

I come back, there's a woman our age contemporary there that is hugging and laughing and loving on mom and gave her a kiss and said, I love you Sandra, and I'm coming to see you.

And looked at me, you need to be a better son.

Your mom is wonderful and I love her and I'm coming to see her.

And that was in a three minute thing.

So that that charm and whatever, you know, my Scooby Doo head turned to the side, you know what.

But I really realized as I researched, you know, sociopaths like Bundy and others out there that that's a gift that they have.

But back to the trust, there was no foundation.

I still, you know, I am so much more evolved.

But I still to this day have to catch myself and not the verify then trust kind of thing there.

I lean on my faith.

But I have had that tug of war for the past 15 years in the remembering of this.

I am much more evolved.

But man, that just wrecked life.

Relationships or what I thought were relationships were just not there until I truly found my faith.

I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you to kind of maybe before we get.

Go further.

We really haven't defined what a sociopath is and we hear that term a lot.

But could you give us kind of a working definition?

Because I think we see a lot of TV shows.

Oh yeah.

But we don't necessarily understand what that terminology really means.

Yeah, sociopath or antisocial personality disorder.

It's kind of in society, you know, like people misuse that crazy narcissist.

There's a difference between, you know, what society?

Oh, you're just being that person.

It's a diagnosed Sociopath, which I had her, you know, in, it's in one of the chapters there.

A double board certified geriatric psychiatrist went through that exercise with her and.

But a sociopath truly is someone that lacks the ability to have empathy.

They only see the lens through their own eyes.

And the right and wrong is whatever their actions are doing, if they're doing it in their mind and it's 100% right and it's justified, they don't have any discernment on others or hurting others.

It's just about what's in their mind in the moment.

And it's all self preservation and justified without any lack of outside empathy, awareness of what's going on.

So they truly do that where society, you know, somebody may show a trait of that where they're rude or put office or a narcissist, they're thinking about themselves.

But that's not the same thing as this clinical diagnosis of that.

But that's really, they operate in their own bubble and truly for their own personal, in the moment needs and desires and anything they do is self justified and they can't recognize or see anything or feedback beyond what they see is right and wrong in their mind.

How do you hope your story kind of breaks some of the stigma for those who are living in situations like you went through.

A couple things.

Number one, I hope that they realize that mental health is health.

I know from you're a pastor and you see all this, you know, you see someone with a leg brace or an arm sling, you know, choo choo, the meal, trains come into the station.

How can we come bring a meal?

Can we pray for you?

Can we do whatever?

There are literally millions of people walking around with hidden arm slings and leg braces.

Keith and I want to shatter that barrier of mental health is health.

If you broke your ankle today, you wouldn't drag it around for six months hobbling on it there, hoping it got better there if you had a broken bone or things of that nature.

But that's what so many people wander through because of the stigma of that.

So one would be mental health is health and we've got to remove that stigma.

The second would be, is regardless of your circumstances, your past, your present, what your situation might have been is now, whether it becomes money, finances or whatever, you can overcome anything when you lean into different and better and you can't do it by yourself.

You have to lean into spirituality and mental health.

And I don't advocate one way or other.

I'm a Christian and I believe in EMDR and all the therapies.

But my point is, I go back, we said it earlier, Keith, you have to try different and better and just something you're not going to do it on your own is what I tell that listener.

The person in the situation that you're in, it may not be as extreme or long term as mine, but that person is not given at the time that you know or thinking about how they're hurting you or doing whatever, you have to lean out and get help and try different and better.

I'm glad you mentioned that.

So if you are, what advice do you have of somebody who thinks that they're living with a psychopathic parent and feel trapped.

One to realize that you're not alone and you can't overcome, but you can't overcome it by yourself.

You have to talk to someone, find someone you trust.

And we talked a moment ago that trust doesn't come easy in those situations.

And you're almost ingrained when you're in an abusive environment that runs counterintuitive to trust.

But you have to reach out to a pastor, a therapist, someone, a friend.

But you've got to talk and there's resources out there and don't be afraid to take that step because in an abusive situation, whether you're a child or an adult, people are just ingrained to believe that that's the way it is and they hold that control over you.

That's not when God intended us the way to live there, we were intended as creatures of grace and joy to go out and spread the good news and love their neighbor as you love yourself.

I speak of it in the book There.

But the biggest obstacle of grace out there is if it talks about love God with all your heart and then love your neighbor as you love yourself.

When people in those situations, Keith, don't love themselves or their definition of love is flawed, like we talk about that quote in my book there.

So you have to step out and reach out in society.

You know, when I was a kid, you know, you had three channels and you had a rotary dial phone.

But today you've got, you know, devices and so many ways to connect and reach out and find help and do that.

But that's what I would suggest.

You've got to step out and try.

Don't fear.

You already are not living your best life.

And you're not only not helping yourself, that other person isn't going to probably recognize.

If they truly have these mental illnesses like my mother, it's another Tuesday to them.

They're not going to come up one day and feel and understand emotionally what's happening to you.

It's just never going to happen.

And that was a big eye opener for me with the diagnosis of mom is why and how.

And I feel the grace of God allowing me to go through that, even though it was a horrible experience going to that therapist and going.

Getting that exercise done with her, at least help me understand that, you know, that was never going to happen.

I mean, people like that.

There's a difference between someone that's having a bad week or bad month or lost their job and not being good to you versus true mental, physical, spiritual, or sexual abuse that's ongoing because they're just wired differently.

So don't assume that it's the first if it you.

If it's been going on more than once or twice, you've got to step out and try different and better.

And there's lots of ways you can escape and get out there.

I want to go back to what it was like for you when you became your mother's caregiver until her passing.

How did that experience influence your healing journey?

And also the tone of your book.

Basically almost derailed everything.

But of course, in Kevin Terminator mind, I had gone to that first round and I was like, okay, well, here's a challenge.

I can look at it through that lens that I can go fix the house, take, you know, get them in somewhere, do whatever.

So that started, but that wasn't sustainable.

And my amazing wife Susan, that finally had to, after going through this circus with them, you can read about in the book.

But basically they were pill shopping and in their house to where their whole wall of their house fell down from disrepair because they were just sitting around out of it all the time.

And I had to step in nine months, you know, symbolic.

I said, God has a sense of humor there.

From finding my faith journey.

I got that phone call that I needed to go step in, and it.

It basically almost wrecked me in the time.

And it was probably the harder part of the book.

I had to go back and rewrite many times there because there's that forgiveness we talked about there, that, that whole part there of, you know, you know, why me?

You know, you know, whether it's the Lucy pulling away the football from Charlie Brown before he kicks it, I'm like, here we are again, you know, why am I in this?

But I tried to lean into prayer of trying to do what's right.

And a pastor helped put this in perspective for me.

Keith was, you know, you know, she didn't fulfill the role as a parent because you know, the most sacred relationship in society is, you know, your mother gave you birth and you're supposed to be.

But you know, that person, I never had any trust.

She didn't fulfill her role as a mother.

He said, kevin, you don't have to fulfill your role as the child, but just like as a good Samaritan, you know, would.

If someone fell down on the street, would you walk around the other side of the street?

Would you step over them or would you give a hand and lift them up?

So that's the approach I tried to take daily.

Of course, I unraveled from that, from trying to get into fix it, Kevin Terminator mode and then staying a step ahead because really was playing 3D chess with her there because she was just going to try to keep and get her way and do things.

So I had to look at that and look at the tone.

But when you see the tone there, I try to see it through the eyes of grace.

But I also leave the reader with the reality of, wow, this was really a train wreck.

But I also, the final read back through that I didn't dust myself up to be because I certainly wasn't the most spiritual hero riding in on a white horse every day.

This was not.

This was a 15 round fight there for the last 8, 10 years there of stuff.

But I wanted them to see that.

It's really easy to say you found God and God's grace, but it's a lot more difficult to put it into practice.

And I think that's what I settled on in the tone in a couple rewrites of that section there where, you know, the TV, the dramatic action, Mr.

True Crime Stuff there.

While all of that's in there, I went back and tried to lay that foundation, Keith, where people could see, you know, it's easy to talk, to talk, but you got to walk the walk.

I've had many people say, you know, I don't know how you did that.

With you, I couldn't have done that.

I would have walked away.

And these are spiritual people things and all that.

And I think that's what God kind of laid on my heart there.

You know what, that's kind of what it's about there.

And it's your journey to heal and love and do that and show that kind of grace.

But that was really a challenge for sure.

And I did some rewrites many times, I would imagine.

So looking back at your journey, what was your turning point when you Went from just surviving this life to thriving.

You know, I thought about that, you know, over the years and I'm glad you asked that.

I'd like to say oh, when I remember it, oh when I found my faith and all that.

But honestly, I think the thriving didn't start until after her passing.

When I finished that second round of therapy, leaned back into my spirituality.

I talk about in the book.

I was a youth pastor for 10 years and God gave me the ability to have a childhood with young people in the experience and I grew along with them.

But coming out of all of that and starting the book, it really didn't happen until about five years ago.

Far as the thriving.

And there's days that there's probably a little bit of coin toss.

There's.

I still have complex ptsd.

So there's things, I know all the big rock triggers and stuff like you see on tv, but there's things where opening of a kitchen drawer or small sound or smell or something that bring me there.

But the thriving really probably about five years ago.

Keith, wow.

So what's next for you as an author.

Really in prayer and discernment about that?

I'm not sure if I want to write, but I'm really feel led on my heart to this mission to get out and bring about mental and spiritual awareness to people and trying different and better.

There's so many people out there that are struggling one of the, I call it superpowers.

Through going through all of this theories, I really have a discernment.

I can walk into a room of people and truly sense someone that has or is currently struggled.

And I don't mean raised by sociopath, but it's in some sort of spiritual or mental crisis that's going on and I could sense it.

And you know, you can see and sense and you walk away and you know, you try to say hi or whatever.

But my mission is to bring awareness to that and to everyone that you know, you got to love yourself in order to love God and love your neighbor.

And it starts with being able to get accept God's grace, to find appeal, put the people in your life.

He's not going to shine a light and go to die like in the movies there, but he'll put people and things in your path that you can take and grow and learn and find that different and better and come out of that.

So I love to be able to continue to speak, maybe write some things more about this, this different and better.

I talk about the tripod of life where you see a three legged tripod that a camera or something stands on with one leg is out of balance, the whole thing falls over and the three legs are, you know, physical, mental and spiritual.

And as society, we either are doing none or almost on our addictive ways on one or the other where we're too much.

We're working out eight hours a day trying to do, you know, burn ourselves out or whatever it is to get through mentally.

We're overthinking and doing and reading and watching, but not acting or spiritually.

We submerse ourselves into the church in a servanthood role, but never really get to the root and crux of doing that while all those things are beneficial to us finding that balance.

So maybe something along those lines.

Keith, I'm still in prayer concernment, but I really want to get the word out and be able to speak to groups and talk about not just my story, but how if I can overcome decades of this from a sociopath and that type of thing, wherever you are, you can get unstuck and find your mental and spiritual grace.

If you try different and better and different and better doesn't mean something drastic.

It means just trying something different today, 1% different and see what happens.

I love it.

You probably answered a little bit with that last question, but just kind of to hone in a little bit more.

What legacy do you want to leave behind?

Yeah, the legacy that, you know, I mentioned it earlier there, that mental health is healthy.

We got to remove that stigma.

You know, we grew up, you know, watching movies, laughing, that person's crazy and whatever and all.

But you know, mental health is health is number one that we got that we break that barrier down into that.

You can overcome anything in life when you lean into spiritual and mental health and try something different and better and don't overthink it, talk to someone, try something different and just start.

God will move you in that journey.

You don't overthink these things and stay paralyzed.

We were not created to live in pain, sadness, guilt and shame.

Those are all things that are not of areas of grace there that you can find.

It is what I want to help people realize in that legacy that they can overcome and thrive.

That's the legacy I certainly would like to leave and why I went on and said uncle and tapped out when I was rational with God about five years ago when I started this book and decided to put it out there.

Wow.

So, Kevin, on this year we have something special for our guests.

We have a surprise question.

Pick a number between one and ten for Your surprise question.

Oh, let's see.

One to ten.

Let's try number eight.

All right.

Number eight.

Ooh.

What would be your best day ever?

Best day ever.

Wow.

Can I repick a question?

Yeah.

No, a good question, Keith.

I'm just joking.

Honestly, I think my best day ever would be that I could walk into a room and I'd had an impact where my growth and development is some way that other people I'm not discerning and feeling the pain and the conflict and the shame and guilt that I sense in others when I walk in the room that they have found.

This is a way of a vehicle to move forward, to find God's grace and get the mental help as well there and understand the difference between the two there that they go hand in hand.

It's not just one or the other.

But I would say that would probably be able to know that.

That we're really truly all loving God, loving our neighbors, because we love ourself, and that I could be that model for that, even though I'm still flawed and not there.

But that would probably be that best day, Keith.

Great.

Where can people find your book, Kevin, and connect with you on social media?

Great.

Besides being on all the things, the Barnes and Nobles, the Amazons and the Goodreads, I've got my own website, mysocialmom.com that has all the links and information about all things spiritual and mental health.

And you can find it out there in any of those platforms out there.

And I would encourage it if it's not someone.

Again, if you're not, you know, not that you were raised by a sociopath, but if you know yourself, if you've gone through any type of setback in life or you know, someone that's gone through a setback and struggling with mental health, addiction or whatever, I would strongly recommend them getting in and reading through it and understanding that you're not alone and you can't overcome there.

And through the website, mysocialmom.com, you also can contact me directly.

We can have dialogue.

I've got articles and things things and happy to engage and talk with individuals or small groups to bring this mission of mental health as health forward.

Well, thank you, Kevin.

That's all for today's episode.

A huge thank you to Kevin Hughes for sharing his incredible journey insights on overcoming mental and spiritual health challenges.

If you'd like to learn more about Kevin and his book Social mom and helping others, you'll find his website links in the show notes below and also connect him for speaking engagements.

Remember, your story also matters, and it can change lives.

Until next time, keep listening, keep learning, and keep writing your own narrative.