Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Scott from Grey 17 Podcast returns to discuss action figures, Walter Koenig, and, of course, this week's episode. Delenn makes a last stand to end the Minbari Civil War. Bester returns to B5 to make Lyta an offer in Babylon 5 - Season 4, Episode 14: Moments of Transition.

Hello and welcome.

Who are you?

This is Babylon five watch cast, hosted by two former strangers.

Now, friends who have gotten to know each other while rewatching a classic

show from their childhood, Babylon.

Five.

I'm Jair,

And I'm Laura.

and today we're joined by.

I am Scott.

From Gray 17.

Hey Scott, how you doing?

Hi.

Yeah.

I don't know why you let me back in, but here I am.

I wanna say though, I mean, I don't have like the docile tones

that your intro has, but it's,

My radio voice.

Yes.

Hello and welcome to the late night discussion forum.

Yeah, that's us.

Alright.

Yeah.

The this, the spinoff of this podcast is just me reading archive of our own.

It's not gonna be pretty,

Well, I have to ask you today, Scott, what do you want?

What do I want?

Is this in terms of like the context of this show or in general?

What do you want?

What do you want besides me to do an archive of

your own read through podcast?

Please don't,

I have no intention to.

I feel sorry for anyone who has to do that in terms

of the context of the show.

I want me a damn reboot.

But in terms of uh, in general, I just want, uh, I want us all to get along man.

I want us all to get along

All right.

Yeah,

Mr.

Morgan to stop waving at me.

Yeah, the, reboot.

No news obviously with the strike and everything.

sure.

Yeah.

There won't be for a while, but Road Home did just drop for us now.

Most of us have gotten our copies this week.

I've been told, if I say anything, Laura will beat

me, so I cannot say a word.

apparently Oklahoma's just on the last end of the delivery schedule

and I just received mine, so please don't spoil these yet, but I look

forward to chatting in the Discord.

There you

yeah.

Yeah.

The, the Discord chat's been popping with stuff that's been fun to see

and fun to finally talk about.

'cause I've been sitting on my hands for this for a month.

Appreciate all your spoiler flags and

I'm trying to be real strict on enforcing that in the Discord.

So,

Thank you.

We were really terrible at it, so we just made our own spoiler

section, our discord and said, go there,

Yeah.

and if anyone finds their way that it shouldn't be there.

It's your own damn fault.

Just whatever.

Well, lacking a segue is ironic for season four, episode

14, moments of transition.

We appear to have lost one here.

Oh, nice.

I like it.

I.

It is not, it's not the worst pun you've thrown at me today.

The other one luckily wasn't recorded, but it's not the worst pun.

You don't have to repeat it for the

I won't,

guys?

we open on a restless Garibaldi getting a call from Mr.

Edgar

Mm-hmm.

who calls hella early here.

He notes he's on call 24 7, so all of his employees are too.

Rude.

Elon, this doesn't mean shit.

No one has your number on purpose.

You're like notoriously secretive, and the people that do aren't going to call

you in the middle of the night because they're terrified of you clearly.

How can you say with an honest face, you're on call 24 7 when

no one will actually call you?

You, you, you hold weird hours and you're not respecting people, is my

immediate vibe from Edgar's here.

And no one has seen his face, right?

I don't remember if we said that in this episode or the previous episode, but

like, no.

They say

Yeah, it's this one.

Mm-hmm.

Nobody knows what he looks like.

Even

Yeah.

See you, you say Elon, but I, I feel this man.

I'm an insomniac, so my staff get like emails from me at three in the morning.

They know they're not supposed to actually respond to them.

Yeah.

But I feel this now.

I don't voice call them though again, because I don't have an Edgar's voice.

That voice is like butter.

He's clearly expecting people to pick up that call, though you're being

very considerate when you email at 3:00 AM you're just like, this is for later.

Mr.

Edgars not so much.

yeah.

Working for a large international business where a lot of the people I interact

with daily are in Europe or Japan.

I get a lot of the weird time zone emails, but no one calls me that early,

Yeah.

they do, I sure as hell don't answer.

Well, is that it then?

Is it just like the time difference between Babylon five and Mars?

Like he's just on a different time zone?

I think

he he calls it out, but even then, it's just like, it's still,

his statement is rude as hell.

Yeah.

Let's keep in mind though, and not that I'm defending Mr.

Edgar at all, but let's keep in mind too, Gar Baldy isn't

exactly not being crotchety like.

All times of the day.

True,

he's, he may be acting a little bit more than usual that way, so,

Yeah.

This man is a walking.

Okay, boomer, right.

uh, another medical supply currently un patented is coming through

the station and Garibaldi needs to make sure it gets where it needs to be.

So he is got his, his B plot mission.

In the A plot, John Sheridan is worrying about ghislaine as we heard.

You know, there's unrest on memoir, and we get the answer that.

I asked a question last time.

Apparently crystals do burn.

Yes.

We see burning crystal buildings on minbar, so they are in, in

fact, burnable crystals, whatever crystals they use for construction.

I thought you were gonna say, apparently Naroon burns too.

But no, we didn't get that

Hey, you just spoiled the end, dude.

If you're

if you're listening to the show, I do, your listeners usually like, watch the

15 minute segment, come to you all.

And then watch the next 15.

I hope not, but you know, if you're out there, let us know.

Find us at the Discord.

I gotta say real quick, when Sheridan wakes up, He has the classic

missing your partner move where he's clearly sleeping on her pillow because

it's, it's elevated, like when you look at him, he's at a like 35 degree

angle because her pillow is stacked on top of his, you can see in the

shot, and her pillow is massive and his is just like a normal pillow.

So I appreciate the embars sleep angle, continuity.

It's the little things in life, right?

Right.

the show details.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So more to your point, Laura, about the burning crystals Last episode I

had said maybe our cultural standards for civil war are a little different.

Maybe the mumba would consider something civil war that we might

consider a peaceful protest.

Clearly not the case.

Yeah.

I think Menari don't kill.

Menari has been thrown out the window at this point, right?

Like, I don't think this is all property crime, property damage that we have here.

No, it's been thrown out the crystal for sure.

what, what, what?

What's the argument given that they're just gonna reincarnate

anyway, so It's fine.

It's fine.

Oh yeah.

Yeah, they'll just come back.

But

I'm really screwing up.

I'm sorry.

I'm really screwing up your format.

'cause I keep jumping to scenes that we haven't gotten to yet.

I'm sorry.

you're fine.

You're fine, you're fine.

But that begs the question too do these menari not know

about the whole humans thing?

They don't,

Oops.

we, we know that Naro might, so Naro Gray Council would know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

but our other MABA is shy Elite, which is the MABA Generals,

not Gray Counsel would not know.

When, of course, Nero.

Either laughs at it or just thinks it's completely false anyway, so

even when he was told about all of this, he thought it was a joke.

So it doesn't matter to him.

Yeah.

Whoops.

Anyway, back into the episode.

we're at Ranger HQ and delaine is attending to as many

extras as they could loaf up.

I thought the same thing.

I was like, wow, budget cuts in season four.

'cause for me for those who haven't checked out Gray 17 we're about a

season behind these guys and I went, I've gone on my way to only watch

a week after week with our newbies.

So I haven't watched season four.

In a long time, like pre Covid, and so I'm looking at this like, oh, I forgot

season four had massive budget cuts.

Yeah.

So we go to theme after we're told that tomorrow they're gonna

get like nuked or something, some kind of orbital bombardment.

They don't really specify, but the cities are going to be destroyed.

they're gonna do the Sheridan on their own cities.

Yeah.

It's a shame.

Back from theme and Lita nails this interview, but she knows

she's gonna fail the background check when they bring it up.

Yeah.

What a

to be.

I, I am so confused here.

How is it hard for her to find work?

Like, like serious question.

There have to be companies not fond of sco.

That has to be a thing that would still need a commercial telepath for things or

alien governments, or maybe one of the rebelling earth colonies or just anyone.

I would think she would be one of the most sought after telepaths.

In existence for business at this point, because she's a human telepath and

we know that when telepaths interact with alien races, it typically doesn't

go as well or is not as accurate.

That's established in Canon.

And so a human telepath who is not attached to Cycore and still

able to operate, not be actively hunted, she's one of a kind.

And if anywhere those corporations are going to be,

they're gonna be on Babylon five in and out or established there.

Right.

The ones that are trying to not be involved with sco.

Right.

Yeah.

And there are a ton of earth colonies outside of Mars and

Epsilon three and Babylon five.

They're like, they very sparsely mentioned, but they totally exist, like.

They're just not actively rebelling.

There has to be someone there that would give her a job.

I, I refuse to accept that she cannot find any work and I'm by no means,

and this to the shock of none of our listeners, a pull your up by

your bone boot straps kind of guy.

Like I'm, I'm, I am not someone to advocate just hitting the

pavement and finding a job.

I know that's not how it works in reality, and I still cannot believe

that Lida cannot just go on Indeed and immediately get 5 million job offers.

Yeah.

Scott, you have a very thoughtful look on your face.

I, I, I get it.

And I completely ag agree that she could probably be an independent contractor,

but I see it kind of like, you know, earth Alliance is still the end all, be all.

I.

Maybe the girl just needs a W two.

You know, you can't get health insurance unless you're working

for a legitimate organization.

So maybe she is doing side projects.

I mean, she's doing a side project with the Lon.

But she just, I think she just wants to be legitimate.

So I agree.

If it's, if she's saying, She can't find any work.

I completely agree.

There's definitely stuff in down below you can go figure out.

But if she's looking for legitimate work, working for a company that's

gonna give her some benefits, some, you know, a little bit of a pension,

then Yeah.

Then then she's exactly, she's, she wants that W two.

I understand

it, I mean, that Lon Healthcare Plan had to be really sweet and it

must be really hard to take a step down

all the augmentations you could ever want.

Yeah.

Is, is Babylon five a tax haven, by the way guys?

Well, it's a revolutionary spot.

It's like Casa Blanca now, right?

Yeah.

multiple times that their only income is renting rooms and docking

fees, so they're not charging taxes to any of the businesses outside of rent.

and we know that Sheridan was such a little whiny punk back

in season two, that they're not charging enough for the rooms anyway.

It's true.

cut.

Just wondering about the, the business implications of

being in a revolutionary state.

Let's save it for a side podcast.

Naru meets up with who we learn is, is is his boss.

I was not sure if they would be peers or his boss last time.

It's pretty clear.

He's the boss

I, I, I think it is interesting because.

The, the lack of respect for the Gray Council by the Warrior Cast was always

kind of there, but this shows even more.

It's like, okay, yeah, you're on the Gray Council, which has been broken now, but

I mean, you were still a leader and, but no, you're gonna answer this general guy

because he's the revolutionary leader.

It just shows how much the gray council's kind of a joke to the

Warrior cast, in my opinion.

Yeah, he's taking the moral standing.

That killing Mamba is regrettable, but they will just reincarnate so

you aren't really killing anyone.

And these are the kind of mental gymnastics that make Ben, if we

have to abandon the coast because of global warming, then those people

will just move and sell their houses.

Shapiro proud.

Mm.

You were just saying how you're not the pulling yourself

up by the bootstraps guy.

I appreciate that you're continuing to.

That path.

Yeah.

Long time listeners know how I feel.

Yeah, we, we've drawn some lines in the sand, I think.

So have we, and I still get the YouTube comments.

It's great.

Why do, well, you know why we don't post on YouTube?

I had a guy a couple weeks ago try to argue why fascism isn't that bad.

I'm like, oh, really?

Cool.

Cool, cool.

Cool.

well, what is bad is From Ben Shapiro's perspective, who the fuck

are you gonna sell your houses to when they're underwater, Ben Aquaman?

And at that point, if you're gonna kill a ton of people so that they

can reborn, who's gonna have those fucking babies just like think about

what you're saying for five seconds and it completely falls apart.

You're asking for a lot, my friend.

know, I know, he spent some more mongering bullshit

until he dismisses Naroon.

And then we cut over to Space t s A, Garibaldi is hanging out with W C W,

referee Charles Little Nature Robinson, as Zach gets to deal with Bester.

Come again.

That is such a deep cut.

The one person who got that joke, I'm so happy.

That we

They laughed really hard.

I know

they

they did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bester, runs some verbal circles around Zach promising he's just there

for normal sidecar stuff and uh, doesn't need to involve the senior staff.

And he pulls a doctor and asks about Zach's health.

Bester learns they don't teach Dickens at Garibaldis homeschooled security training.

Oh

And, uh, Zach catches up with Alfredo and knows exactly what

he's up to, but Garibaldi can either confirm nor deny that he's insulted.

Can I really quick just point out how much of a national

Treasure International treasure.

Walter Kanick is his just line delivery of mankind or humanity is my business.

I'm like, oh, I love you,

is great.

I just saw him at Star Trek, Las Vegas, and he is not doing well

Did you see what he put out

I

did.

a couple days later, so I don't think I, I don't know if I

even told you this story, Beth, but Walter Connick got lost at SS T L

V and asked Beth for directions.

Oh my gosh.

Really?

Yeah.

So that was bad.

But it was bad enough where in an elevator, talking to other people

later, we had encountered other people who had also helped him.

He was just wandering around, lost at the convention for a while, apparently so.

Yeah, I know his, yeah, his wife passed last year.

Yeah.

He's apparently not been doing great since then, and the, the panel he

gave at at uh, S T L V was, was great.

It was great to hear him, but he is clearly, uh, very elderly at this point.

We, we were trying desperately to try to get him on our show, and

we finally were told by his people that he just doesn't do 'em anymore

because his hearing is so bad

that he, he really just, he doesn't wanna get lost in the dialogue.

I, I saw him last year at Star Trek, Las Vegas, and could tell that the

hearing was kind of an issue for him.

No, but he put out a, he put out an announcement a few days ago

where he was like, for another con, and he's like, see me before I'm dead.

yeah.

You did

yeah.

Yeah.

I uh, I was scrambling to try and get a bester action figure so I could

have him sign it at this convention and I was not able to procure one,

so, ah.

It is the only one I haven't opened.

'cause I will not open it, but here it is.

Scott's got the original man.

I just need to get my shadow guy.

That's all I gotta get.

But I don't wanna spend 150 bucks on a toy.

Mm.

But you will.

It's a collectible, sir.

I keep trying to hint at some of the, you know, some of our

audience members, like, Hey, I don't have a shadow action figure yet.

You send all the B five for the first time, guys, like all

this crap, send me something.

Why you doing?

Yeah

after this uh, DHIS tells Lanier the religious cast is

going to surrender to commercial.

And when we come back,

Bester rolls up on Lita and grabs a quick jab at Ivanova.

Before getting to the point, Lita needs the SCO to be able to get a job.

He lists his uh, terms, she has to wear the badge and the gloves.

10% of your fees get taxed and go to the core.

And there's this little footnote at the bottom of the page.

Uh, just your body after you die.

Yeah,

You are making it sound like it wasn't that creepy.

I want your body.

I have to wonder, and actually you'll have to tell me this if this

is a thing where when you watch it for the first time, instead of knowing how

this plays out if that comes off as a, like, pleasure, thresholds, vibe,

if, if that was supposed to feel overtly sexualized because it did.

I felt like, yeah, like it had like a reproductively kind of vibe to it.

'cause we know that about Cycore, right?

That they like match people up to try to have the most optimal babies.

And now Bester knows the thing about she's definitely been

altered by the Vons in some way.

So he wants them sweet, sweet like wan telepath babies is.

Definitely the first read and probably the actual truth.

Like do you really think he wants to just wait until she's dead?

I think he thinks that's his only chance.

Bester will tell you exactly what you need to hear at.

That moment.

So when he's telling you, don't worry, it will be natural causes.

He's not gonna wait 30, 40, 50 years for Lee to kill over.

He'll find a way to make it natural.

want those eggs while they're fresh.

That's what I'm getting out of it.

Which is horrifying.

Yeah.

To sleep per chance to dream.

Lita tells 'em and I, that's the rub.

Best of replies.

He'll be here for a few more days, though.

Should she change her mind.

And Garibaldi has revealed to witness this whole thing.

Naro lays down the plan to the shy elite who lets him know he's gonna

make like a Kardashian tailor and make sure Dehi Glenn ship doesn't get home.

Mm.

It's a deep space Nine joke.

I got

Okay.

It's a good episode in the Pale Moonlight.

I don't, I don't know why I'm explaining this.

Our listeners, surely

Yeah, everyone, everyone, knows.

This is just, I'm just rambling nervously because I didn't think my joke was as

funny as I thought it was when I wrote it.

I just miss Aaron Eisenberg, that's all.

I miss him.

I just wish I had come up with, with a joke as good as

Chekhov's Telepath, but still haven't.

That's still my crowding moment.

Oh.

It's a good joke.

Lita is making a dinner in a BB eight branded air fryer as Zach

comes in to deliver the bad news.

Personally, lead's gonna have to move to significantly smaller quarters.

Those are very spacious quarters.

They are.

I appreciate how much this scene mirrors the one with Garibaldi from a couple

episodes ago where Zach had to deliver the bad news to Garibaldi and he wanted

to make a point of doing it personally, and Garibaldi was an asshole about it.

And in this case, it's all like, you're right, if I had heard this from

someone else, it would've bothered me.

Uh, So we get some we get some ification for Zach Allen here.

Yeah, and you know what it, he didn't turn away from it, even though

the last guy was a big asshole about it.

He's still sticking to his guns about I gotta do these things personally.

And he gets a, a gracious reception for once.

Yeah.

He does ask Lita to illegally scan Garibaldi, and she refuses.

Oh, so she's still sticking to those guns.

That's nice.

They are touchy feely here.

He is touchy feely.

Is she touchy feely back?

approaches him a handful of times, hands on shoulders and stuff.

It is, it felt reciprocated to me but in a, like, maybe, maybe second

date in high school, like kind of way, like a, not really sure what's

going on, but something is going on.

It felt to me.

Do you think that they're making the point now for later

about the gloves that she's going to be cut off and can't touch people

mm That's a good call out.

Yeah, that's what that is.

A hundred

We've gotta establish it a little bit.

Yeah.

After this we go over to Garibaldi.

He decides to go on the hunt for dog bur cat, Burt and Scott Adams

sanity after let's say uh, 2015.

And let's promise each other right now, dear listener, that we won't

give that asshole the legitimacy of a bump in Google search statistics

by checking when he lost his sanity.

Let's just agree to pull that date out of our asses collectively,

rather than acknowledge that guy.

yeah, it was recent.

It

was recent.

was it

recent.

Well, I'm talking about like in his lifetime,

like.

Scale of that, not like the scale of

Yeah.

I mean, he wrote a

book about how successful Trump's campaign was and how it was obvious

to anyone paying attention, so,

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Yeah, I think got great.

It's e easy to predict them.

After the cards fall in Nostradamus

It's so funny, you know, the Simpsons predicts a lot of

things, but who would've known that Babylon five was gonna predict Mr.

Adams?

Hanging out with a conservative talk radio host.

Yeah.

To be fair, I'm not usually the defender of conservatives.

Hmm.

But Jerry Doyle was absolutely a conservative radio host, but he was

a conservative radio host before the conservatives became the Trumpers.

I'm pretty sure Jerry,

He died before the Tea Party movement, so he

exactly.

So we don't, I mean, he very well could have gone full tail t,

but Jerry is a different kind of

There are some that you can point to, and I couldn't name them,

but you hear these stories sometimes of the people who flipped because

of how far right it went, but,

I know, I know

several.

I'm, I'm a recovering pol, I'm a recovering politician.

I know several people who have jumped ship because it's not the ship anymore.

It's like this is

It is a different ship.

Yeah.

It's like uh, you know, when uh, Clark decides to bomb Mars, who side are you on?

Yeah.

Yeah.

We can make the charitable assumption these, maybe Jerry Doyle would

really object to martial law.

Who knows?

He just wants a beer.

That's all.

Ah.

Lita steps in to ask Garibaldi for work.

He starts to work out the details just to annoy Bester, who then joins

them just to talk shit and walk away.

He uh, does a light scan on Garibaldi so that Lita can tell

him and they all end up arrested.

Yeah, everybody did something illegal

here.

I do, I did really like the scene where Zach's just waiting

on the staircase for bester.

Yeah, he's just been tailing

him this

get this one a hundred percent

Yeah.

over at the ancient Miba temple, the leaders gather Ghislaine gives

Lanier her suicide note as they enter.

And it's legitimately is.

Yeah.

Shakira laments the conflict of the.

Last three weeks, four, maybe

You know, when we, when you first hear from this guy, and this was a while

back, there's almost a moment there, we were like, okay, he's making some sense.

He's pulling like the, he's pulling the Truman argument.

Like, you know, we had to fight and people died, but more people would have died.

If we did it the other way and then he goes, full tip.

Just, you know, kill 'em all and let reincarnation sort it out.

But

Yeah.

originally he's like, I had to do this, but then, you know, he

turns into this guy, so it's fine.

Yeah.

No, it was interesting hearing those arguments.

Also, having just seen Oppenheimer within the last week.

Which by the way, if anyone hasn't go now, hit pause.

Go.

Yeah.

Get out there, which means I should go, guys.

I'll be back later,

it was good.

It is gonna get all the Oscars,

I'm sure.

You do need to see Barbie first, though.

It does help the movie.

Make sense.

I will say it was a a weird move to compare sex with

Florence pew to the atomic bomb.

But you know what?

It is what it is.

That movie had some weird choices.

It made.

There's legitimately nothing I can say here that won't get me in trouble, and

therefore I'm gonna keep my mouth shut.

So Dela surrenders on behalf of the, just gimme a second.

Yeah.

Florence Pew broken.

not the first time.

Dela surrenders on behalf of the religious cast.

Uh, Shari wants to make Miba great again but Ghislaine

interrupts him to make her play.

The Old Ways of Minbar was a game of chicken ending in suicide.

Naru calls out SHA carrie's bullshit,

and immediately one of those

I'm sorry.

Can we have a timeout?

Did you just say, did you just say Shakira's bullshit?

Did the hips not lying?

The hips don't lie.

Uh, Naroon calls out Shari's bullshit

goes into the beam of pain where Delaine is and is immediately one of those dudes

who uses a TENS unit to simulate menstrual cramps and just keels over in pain.

He's at the one.

Exactly.

Yeah.

He's just like, Nope.

I'm out.

Delaine

is

like, this is Tuesday and I'm screaming.

We need to talk about this beam though.

This is a lon beam.

Right?

Oh.

This has to be like lon technology that helped them like encourage martyrdom,

Oh.

Ooh.

I mean, the, the, the borderlines aren't toyed with the

ARI anymore, but they absolutely did.

They absolutely

And that would've been the timeframe for this.

Yeah.

Now, a thousand years ago when they were playing with them,

like they play with humans now.

Mm-hmm.

Because we saw them kind of encourage jaar towards.

Things and towards that sort of martyrdom vibe.

And this is literally like the martyr beam,

Then the marker beam.

Yeah.

Shari uh, leaves the beam and Dela decides to just stay in and die for the drama.

And

Well, I mean, she's following tradition.

The girl, she's a badass.

When she says she's gonna do something, she's gonna do

mm-hmm.

this resonated so much with me with a book that I recently

read, and I think I mentioned this on pod a couple of weeks ago.

A memory called Empire.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's about a star empire who conducts all politics through poetry,

and every single one of these people is a dramatic bitch for it, and I love it.

And it just, watching deland just like, guess I die to prove a point now,

just reinforces that type of attitude.

And it reminded me so much of the book.

anyways, uh, Nero's been on Broadway and no one out dramas a San Fran

theater kid that that city gave us.

Emperor Norton, the first emperor of the United States in protector of Mexico.

He has to honor that.

He pushes Delin out of the beam renounces the warrior cast and joins the religious

cast as he's reduced to a literal smolder.

Yeah.

Real talk.

I did not remember what happened to Nrun when we started the show.

heart is religious.

Melts.

Did not remember this at all.

I just remember when Nrun showed up, he was like, oh, I hate that guy.

He sucks.

See, that's what I'm looking for.

One, one of the guys I'm looking forward to the, mostly the buildup and

the the arc of the character is Nero because my newbies were the same way.

Like, this Nero guys a dick.

I'm like, oh, just wait till season four.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They'll hit last episode and see him and Delaine actually talking

and start to turn around, I'm sure.

But then you get confused.

It's, it's brilliant.

It is a

good

So my question for you guys on this is, when did Nrun turn?

Did he turn before he had his first meeting with Shari?

Did he turn during the meeting of Shari?

With Shari?

Did he turn at the, the, the, the beam of uh, intense

this

did he finally decide to make the

this was all their plan.

So

I, well, here's my evidence.

Right?

So at the end of last episode, which I don't know if you watched that one

in addition to this one, 'cause I know you, it's, it's weird for you.

not in four years ago.

So that episode ends with Nrun calling Shari to be like,

Hey, the religious cast is planning this counter attack, right?

We hear nothing of this counter attack the entire time.

They never mention it.

They don't even talk about attacking when they arrive.

Delaine is all like, no, we're gonna make this work.

Neither of us can win the entire time.

There is no counter attack.

He uses this to get his seat at Shari's side.

So that way when it comes to the surrender that Ghislaine told him

is coming, remember Noone's the one who picked this place, if they had

picked somewhere else, they wouldn't.

Nrun could have picked anywhere to accept surrender.

I.

And strategically, you probably wouldn't pick a place on the planet, you'd probably

pick your capital ship with Delaine, and that's it instead of this audience.

So Delaine picked this place because that's a hundred percent Delen style.

Delaine knew what the plan was, that's why she had, you

know, she knew where they were.

She has her suicide note ready.

And Nrun said it for Ghislaine on Delaine's behalf.

He had turned before he left on the shuttle when Lanier watched him leave.

Okay, I'll, I'll give you that.

I, I, I buy that too.

Like it felt weird at the end of that episode and I went, oh,

no, did, did he just turn on us?

But he, he was calling them about information that had never

been established in the episode.

So, you know, it, it was designed to be a little tricky, I think,

and make you wonder, but I think it's, it is all a ruse.

Well, let me take a look at my viewing schedule real quick, and

I will tell you when I will realize that I was a wrong idiot on that one.

Hey, or you can come back and tell us we are wrong idiots.

Oh, no, no, no.

I'm I, I'm, I'm sure.

I'm sure.

I just haven't watched that one in a long time.

A long time.

get

No, and I, it fooled me at

Looks to be uh, January 14th of next year

Okay, I'll put it

will, when I will watch that

I will expect a text message, or at the very least, something

on the Gray 17 Facebook group.

My heart is, who are you?

Okay.

Ah Edgars wakes up Garibaldi again telling him to fire Lita, so he does and

Bester watches just to get off on it.

I will say there were some use net traffic thinking that

Edgar was bester at this point.

Yeah.

see that.

I mean, this whole Edgar's thing is like very confusing.

Who is this dude?

What is going on?

Yeah.

I did love JM S's response to that, though.

Which was, we've already casted this actor.

Yeah, well maybe his first piece was not a chance.

Yeah.

A famously uh, short, responsive man sometimes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I got up on, I got up and asked him a question

at San Diego Comic-Con, and he just looked at me and said, no,

so,

There was an interview he did after you had watched the uh, The new movie,

I caught it on YouTube and the first guy asked a question that was just a pretty

piss poor question, and j m s just looked at him and was like, next question.

I was like, ah, you burned your, you burned your one there kid.

Good job.

At least you didn't get that Jair.

It's true.

I mean, I feel like I had a very good thought out question that

we'll talk about on the next League of Not Aligned Podcasts.

yay.

Uh,

of us count different things.

I count how many times J M Ss smacks me around on Twitter.

I'm up to four.

Oh,

We got a retweet from him the other day.

It was

Nice.

that.

happiest day of my life.

Yeah.

The great maker has seen us all according to plan here.

According to Bester, though Garibaldi has pushed farther into

Edgar's pocket and Lita has to take his offer to join the Corps.

Why couldn't she go to Sheridan at this point?

Mm.

You don't think, yeah.

Sheridan might wanna

Just to stop bester

if nothing else.

but, but remember.

Sheridan is the landlord of B five and he just kicked her out her quarters too.

She doesn't, she's being told through their actions and she even

dealt with this when she first came back on board back in season three.

They only are there to use her and she knows that no one respects her.

No one is not scared of her, so I don't think she has that relationship

with Sheridan to do anything

I would think as a laster course you could be like, how about

you don't kick me out of my quarters and I don't have to work with

Bester is a good deal for Sheridan.

Le Lena's always an interesting character and there's, there's stuff we

can talk about when you all get to season five, but she's an interesting character

and an interesting dynamic and it's always, it's fascinating how j m s writes

here, and I'll just leave it at that.

Delaine is still healing from her experience in the wheel but

still managed to get on the broadcast to reform the gray council this

time with a worker cast majority,

Hmm.

and I have to wonder, What the Mbar population actually looks

like and how well this represents it.

That is interesting.

That's an interesting question.

Uh,

If the House of Representatives nationally was organized by occupation

instead of geographic location?

Let's make 50% of the house teachers please.

that'd be nice.

Yeah.

Just a thought.

I don't, I we don't, we don't need to dig into that at all.

Can you imagine the gray council is, turns into a a If anyone's ever been

listening, I'm sure many of you have been a part of a good old workers union,

just thinking about like, you know, the beer meetings in the middle of the night.

That's what the gray council's gonna be like.

Oh, let's talk about management.

God dang it.

Gimme another Budweiser.

What the hell?

I have to clean up after those all the time because,

Okay.

No, my, my backyard shares a wall with a steel workers union.

Hey, this day my dad was a steel worker, man.

They had the best

I'm not talking shit, but I do have to go up and clean up empty cans

and union literature that gets tossed over the wall after those gatherings.

I said best parties.

All the best parties have union literature.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Ivanova runs into Sheridan's quarters on a fucking mission,

bringing footage of Clark's military attack, killing 10,000 civilians.

Sheridan watches this resolves to take the fight back to all the way to earth

and to pose this tyrant to credits.

Yeah.

Oh, we didn't talk about, I wanted to bring up a thing

before we like wrap.

It's a thing.

I couldn't remember where the last scene with Lita is placed exactly

in all these, this ending sequence.

But I wanted to point out that, you know, as she's putting on her gloves

and we see the badge, she's, she's doing that suit again, that I believe

we saw this type of suit on Talia that has a very like collar, like collar,

like literal dog collar, animal collar.

On this very nice tailored suit, and I just think that's a, you know,

interesting, nice detail of costuming about what's going on with Telepaths.

Yeah.

And of course, the good old gloves.

Mm-hmm.

those gloves?

Which, speaking of action figures, you can get a tall alito

with gloves and without gloves in case you're like really into that

I've got a couple behind me, but not a ton.

If I pan my camera up here,

next to the guitarist.

There you go.

See?

You keep 'em in the box.

You're a good person.

I'm

not.

I correct all those suckers,

I got a Veer and Alando and a delan and a she and up there.

I have all of them now, except for the before transformation,

Mm-hmm.

the with gloves, lita the shadow.

And there are there are two ambassadors.

One's a Markham, I believe, and the other one is like the anti teacher gas mask guy.

No one's a droy.

I'm wrong.

One's a droy.

So I don't have those.

And that's really because speaking of asshole conservatives, Mitt Romney bought

KB toys back in the nineties, right

when that run?

Yeah, yeah, he did.

It was uh, it was Bain Capital.

BA

Okay.

okay.

So I was a KB Toys guy.

Okay.

Nineties.

I was in high school.

We had a KB toy store.

Oh, it was great.

And these Babylon five figures were mainly run for KB toys.

And that last run came out right when KB was going under.

That's why one, you can find 'em fairly cheap on eBay.

'cause there was a shit ton of 'em and no one

bought 'em.

But on those, like those, those Chase figures, like the ambassadors and the

The Bester and all that they're hard to get ahold of because of Mitt Romney,

God conservatives are rude to everything.

you can send your hate mail to Great 17 podcast@gmail.com.

That is a fun little piece of trivia I never knew.

I'm gonna file that right next to Rick Berman.

Got us Barack Obama as president in my brain.

Uh, Yeah, I actually worked on that campaign.

Oh, congratulate on the Rick Berman for Barack Obama campaign.

No, but we were definitely involved in the uh, oh God.

We just lost Jerry Ryan on that one.

Yes.

yeah.

Because if it was a while where it was, yeah, it was gonna be Jack

Ryan, not from the Clancy novels, and it was gonna be a race, I think

b I think Barack still would've won.

But uh, and then Jack Ryan had a sex dungeon with Jerry

and we're like, oh, okay.

I guess I guess we win this one.

Thanks guys.

Look at all our hard work.

We did.

So good.

Go team.

All right.

Well Scott, take a couple minutes, tell us about Gray 17, where we

can find you uh, your community, your Twitter, all that good

stuff.

me get this big old power outlet here so I can do a shameless plug.

Uh, so So we are a Gray 17.

We are a podcast of newbies and i i old bees or first ones,

whatever you wanna call it.

So, We have a group there watching the show for the first time, and a group of

us who have watched it way too many times.

And so we have our newbies kind of talk about each episode one by one.

We're currently almost done with season three, so this would be a great time

to check us out if you haven't already.

And then once our newbies uh, get ejected out the airlock, we talk all the

spoilers on the back end of the episode too, so you get a little bit of both.

It's been really fun for me because.

I was there in 93 watching the Gathering, and I watched it all through

P t N and uh, T N T and all that.

So I don't get to experience Babylon five like this again.

But now with our newbies I'm seeing stuff through fresh eyes,

which is really, really fun.

So you can check us out on all of your podcast or YouTube or anything.

Just search Gray 17 podcast.

You'll find us and we are on all the socials as well.

Awesome.

Excellent.

We gotta ask.

The answer's 42.

Always is.

Sorry, the scale only goes to one to five.

How do you rate this episode on a scale of babylon's one to five?

you know this again, as you've already mentioned and I've

mentioned, it's weird for me because I am knee deep in season three.

Mm-hmm.

And you just asked me to like randomly watch a season

four episode completely random.

It's a good episode.

Anything with Bester above is above average right off the bat.

And uh, I said Walter Kig is a international treasure.

I'm gonna say it's probably a four.

It's not, it's definitely one that I would say.

It is a moment of transition.

Everything kind of moves along and there is bigger stuff to come.

There was bigger stuff before.

This is a piece where we kind of get to a crescendo.

I think the best part of this episode, aside from Bester, is Nero's arc

coming to an end, because I think that, that, that's an arc that has been

done well for three years of a show.

And the actor's been great and it's, it's good to see.

Him finally get to where if you've watched before, you know where he's going.

That's fun.

So I would say about a four.

There's a lot more good stuff to come.

But it's, it's a fun one.

Yeah, I agree.

Above average episode of Babylon five.

I would also give it a four.

I really, really love the stuff with Nero, especially because I didn't remember it,

that he goes out in a nice blaze of glory.

The only like downer for me was like, I felt like the stuff at the

very end where we've discovered that earth has been firing on its

own ships and, and civilian ships.

It felt a little tacked on.

It was kind of that things are going a little faster now in this season.

That was a little disappointing, but.

If that's my quibble, like that's a small quibble.

there's a reason for that.

That's more meta that I'm sure you don't want me to talk about on this

podcast yet, but there's a reason for

Yeah,

We have, we have discussed the the pending we are, we are past the point now.

Um, I don't think I've mentioned it in a couple of episodes, but we've talked about

it before that they were unsure about season five happening, and so the pace of

things had to dramatically change to cut season five into season four to get to

a satisfactory conclusion of the story.

This moment feels like that

You know, and, and j m s was asked for this episode, would this

been the season finale of season four?

He said, no, this would never have been a season finale, but it feels

like it, it feels like if you're gonna transition from a season four to a

season five, It feels like, well, I mean, it's called in the title.

It feels like a good transition for that.

There's is one, uh, behind the scenes thing I want to mention too when this

first aired and you see the, the, the footage of the attack on the

earthlings or humans the guys at the uh, special effects house decided to

save some time and they knew they had to have an Earth Cruiser in that video.

So they pulled an asset and they pulled the Agamemnon

Mm.

Sheridan's old ship.

And you can definitely see on the original that like, oh, Sheridan

ship that blew those guys up.

They actually went back later and changed it for future releases because

that's a little bit too much on the nose, even for a tack on ending.

But yeah, for a bit there it was like, oh, that makes even more interesting.

The uh, what would've been the Season four finale?

I won't describe what happens in this episode, but I will

say it is four episodes away.

It's season four, episode 18.

He's gone on record of saying, would've been the season four

finale, and then everything after that would've been a season.

Along with probably some of the stuff we get at the stop top of season five.

They worked

that

see that.

I could see that.

I will say one other thing too, just another little shameless plug is uh, we're

getting very close to war without end.

And in fact, when this drops, we'll be even closer.

One of our bonus episodes is we are gonna go over the original Babylon five plan.

That was the original pitch back before uh, season one started.

So we'll be talking about that with when we drop War Without End.

So that's a fun and killer conversation we have as well too,

about how things could have gone and.

It would've been different.

yeah.

Oh yeah.

There's a lot of real interesting stuff there.

G m s had a 10 year plan

it's ambitious.

why

not

Well, if you're going to invent the five-year plan for TV maze, we'll

do the 10 year while you're at it.

Yeah.

killed Kill it

Shoot for the moon.

But in not shooting for the moon, but maybe shooting kind of close to the moon.

We've got season four, episode 15.

No surrender, no retreat.

It's a shame.

This came out before Galaxy Quest, uh

Every time I hear that episode title now I'm like, oh man, Tim Allen.

Here we go.

Let's do it.

Sheridan again gets ready for war.

After 10,000 unarmed refugees are killed.

He battles earth destroyers to liberate a planet threatened by Earth.

Lando makes a surprising proposal to Kar Garibaldi leaves.

Hmm.

It is a

real disjointed and honestly, that's the pace of a lot of these episodes coming up.

You can tell that they cut a lot of stuff.

They crammed a lot of things together.

Um, I've commented in the past some of my least favorite episodes of the

show are the ones where it sacrifices the show for the sake of the plot.

Mm-hmm.

Um, And actually a fun note on commentary from the road home

which neither of you have gotten to listen to yet, but there's a whole

bit where J M Ss is talking about his growth as a writer, where he

thought it used to be plot that drove.

The story and then he realized it was characters that drove the story and then

he realized it was something else that drove characters that drove the plot.

And I'll let you listen to the commentary tracks and I won't ruin

it for you because it's a fun time.

Ooh,

I'm

Yeah, I'm

gonna have to go out and buy the Blu-ray since my digital copy

doesn't have the commentary.

Thanks.

it has been spotted in targets.

Ah, that's exciting.

Supposedly the, the sell the sales of this thing have been through the roof,

and I haven't just heard that from j m s.

I've heard it from other folks, like publishers and stuff that Warner Brothers

had a thought of what this would sell.

And they didn't make enough copies based on the

Oh, you love to hear

That's great news.

That's very

promising for We probably, if we weren't in strike land,

probably You think we would've had

I think they would've made an announcement and, and maybe not, maybe

not reboot, but I almost guarantee, based on just the numbers I've seen,

we're gonna get another animated movie,

at least 'cause of, I mean, they're made for cheap and Warner Brothers

animation can churn those suckers.

I mean, if you watch the DC animated movies, they can churn

those suckers out pretty quick.

So I don't think this is the end of our trips to Epsilon three.

Yeah.

Uh, There was a tweet from j m s the other day where he's all

like, realistically, two a year

Mm-hmm.

yeah.

They, they can churn them out.

And the other, he also said too, and I may get in trouble 'cause I don't

think this was on the Patreon, but he said that they kept all the assets.

So now it's gonna be even faster.

'cause you don't have to redesign and redraw Babylon

five, now you've got the asset.

if it was on the Patreon, he definitely said that

aloud at San Diego Comic-Con,

Excellent.

I've already, that's another reason why I've been yelled at by J m s,

so I have to be careful sometimes.

Yeah.

he doesn't listen to our podcast.

No worries.

Oh, no, no,

Oh, no, I got called out on his Patreon.

It's a whole thing.

Oh, we got a rebel here guys.

you know, who else is a

rebel?

Jeremy Siegel, who composed our lovely theme music.

Thank you, Jeremy.

A moment of transition.

Good

You did

reach, I, I've got this giant barrel of sss next to me and I just

dive in like I'm bobbing for apples.

Is it next to the well of Dad jokes?

Listener

and friend of the pod.

Ben keeps those all none of the dad jokes are here anyways.

Jeremy, thank you so much for our theme music.

We really appreciate your contribution to the podcast.

We wouldn't be the same without you.

Go ahead and find Jeremy's music at Jeremy Siegel 40 two.bandcamp.com

or on Spotify and other streaming services as nuclear Jaguar.

And thank you to angry Duck time machine on Instagram

for our podcast artwork.

Aaron, thanks so much for making sure that we sound

like we're coherent individuals.

Really appreciate all the time you put into editing the podcast.

Thank you.

And the extra time now that I'm on here, sorry.

It's a delight.

Don't worry about it.

And thank you to you, the listener, for being here with us.

We appreciate you and the community.

Come join us in the Discord or send us an email at, who are you, b5@gmail.com

if you wanna share your thoughts.

Yeah,

All the cool kids are on the Who are you?

Discord.

'cause I

it's

Yeah, come hang with

don't actually talk

we should probably start asking for season four finale

thoughts by the time this airs.

We'll be looking at recording that episode.

So yeah, please send us your thoughts on season four for

our season four recap episode.

Yeah.

start remembering to plug that.

And uh, we'll see you next week.

Internet.

Take care.