Boundaries - Choosing the Productive Hard Emotions with Jacquelyn Emery -47

Episode 47 • 6th June 2023 • THE GRIT SHOW • Shawna Rodrigues

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Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:01:28

Jacquelyn Emery is a certified Life coach, podcast host, and founder of the Life in the Driver's Seat coaching program, which is all about empowering women to get into the driver's seat of their life so they can feel better. Get more enjoyment out of their life and intentionally create a life they love. Which is obviously something we're very excited about here on the Grit show. And I'm thrilled that she is our guest here today to talk to us about a few things, but boundaries actually is something we're going to focus on. Thank you so much for being here, Jacquelyn.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:01:57

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be with you today.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:02:02

I know you have so much wisdom and I am thrilled that we get to dive into some of the topics that you are an expert on and can share with our audience that have conversations around. So where did you get your start in deciding to become a life coach and do the work that you're doing?

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:02:17

n years and he passed away in: 2018

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:03:43

Oh, that's amazing. I love that. And it is those hard times in our life if we can lean into them and kind of find the ways to apply what we're getting out of them and take it as a wake up call, that's pretty incredible that you were able to do that.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:03:59

Yeah, 100%.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:04:01

Yes. That's great that you're giving back in this way, and I'm excited. Your program sounds amazing. But I know that we had a little conversation around boundaries and I loved what you had to say about them. And I feel like that's something that we all need reminders of, even if we've made improvements and gains in those areas. So can you talk a little bit about why you feel that boundaries is something important for all of us to kind of look at in our lives and work on?

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:04:28

You're right. And it is such an important topic, and I feel especially in women's life, I feel right. It's such an important thing to think about because I think it has such an influence on women's life, for sure. And another reason I love boundaries is because I honestly feel like I've said this in my podcast before, too. It's like if there's one area I feel like I have seen the most profound changes and effects in my clients life, it is from setting boundaries. And I always laugh. I'm like, it's the biggest bang for your buck, too, because we think we have to do all these confusing things. But boundaries, like, we're going to talk about it talks about you can create a boundary in 5 seconds.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:05:05

Right. Like it's this simple thing. And yet the effects of creating boundaries are so profound. You get so much in return when you set boundaries. And the payoff is so big. And while it's simple, I say to set them, it is work to keep them and implement them and make them effective. But we're going to get into that in a little bit. And it's like when I think of what a boundary is like, if I had to sum it up, it's like a boundary. It's like a barrier. It's like something you're intentionally creating to protect yourself. And I remember hearing someone else talk about boundaries, and it really struck me, and I'll never forget it, but she was saying it's like a fence, right? Like, think of a fence around a house. That's what a boundary is to us. It's like a fence that we build around us to protect us, and it protects us emotionally. Boundaries protect us physically, emotionally, our well being. They protect our energy, our health, our energy, our finances. Like all of these things boundaries can protect. It's like building a fence around the house. That is what a boundary is for us.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:06:11

Yes. And they do such wonders for relationships, I think, as well, to be able to protect your relationship when you have those boundaries. And I've seen the difference in my relationship with people, especially with, I think, family. I think it comes into play in my life the most with family, that when you have those set boundaries, I think you're able to relax and trust and be in that space without being on edge. Because you don't know where things end and begin and when things are going to get complicated or messy and you're worried about how someone's going to act because you've already kind of said, this is where I'm at. This is where I'm willing to be for this. And then you can just relax and know that's where it's at. So it definitely gives you a sense of freedom.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:06:52

You nailed it on the head. Because I had put that in my notes. It's like when we can have boundaries, it gives clarity to other people to know how to interact with you. Right. To know how to treat you, to know how to interact with you. That's another reason people don't want to create boundaries or they're scared to, is because they think it's going to somehow ruin a relationship if they bring up creating a boundary or they decide this is a boundary. But it's like you are helping your relationships because if you're not setting a boundary and you're feeling whatever, impatient or frustrated or whatever, and you're stuffing it down, that is not a relationship anyway. You're being dishonest in the relationship and you're not feeling in a loving way. You're not creating the relationship you want anyway, but you're not creating the boundary because you're scared to ruin it, but you're already ruining it by not setting the boundary. Very interesting.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:07:46

Yes. And I think that I have people in my family whom I love dearly who feel like they're being taken advantage of a lot and not speaking up for themselves because they aren't having those set boundaries. And then they have the tendency to maybe draw, like to yank things in one direction and then yank things a different direction because they aren't sure where they can draw it. Because sometimes they feel they need to say, that's it, and they draw a line in the sand that's here, but then they move it back to a different place, a different time, and people don't know what to expect. And people have different understandings of where things are at. Like someone's like, oh, no, we're fine, we're good, because they think it is. Because this one time when we talked, you were good with the way we were handling the situation, but then somebody else is over here stewing about the time two times ago and the way that it was handled instead of just being clear about where things are at. So that clarity could definitely make a difference.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:08:38

Yeah, it's just giving that clarity and it's good for everyone. And you're right. It's like people are so different, right? So I might be late and I think no big deal because it's like people can be late. I don't care, right. Other people, it's very important. So to let people know just helps the relationship grow and it's deep and it's honest and it's clear, right, because everyone's so different, we just expect everyone to know, right? Otherwise we're going to be frustrated and resentful. But it's like people don't know if we're clear and we let them know. It might feel uncomfortable, but in the end it's like that's how you create a functioning, healthy relationship between people.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:09:16

of this is when it starts at: 05:00

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:10:57

Yeah. I can be clear and say, hey, because like me, I don't care, and I find myself running late a lot, right. But I don't care when people are like, oh, I'm going to be 15 minutes late. I'm like, Take your time. Right. But it's like some people sit there and they're like, it's selfish, and the other person isn't taking it. They care about certain things they care about, right. They're not meaning it as selfish and disrespectful. So it's like, there's two options here. I can either say, you know what, this is really important to me. I really want you to be on time, and if you're not, I'm going to do this. Like, if you're 15 minutes late, I'm going to leave or I'm going to leave without you, or whatever. Or the other option is I sit there and I'm stewing over it and I'm angry and I'm feeling resentful and this person doesn't care. Or I can take responsibility and just be clear and say, this is important to me. Right. And if you do say that, the other person is going to be like, oh, my gosh, I didn't know you were feeling disrespected. They're not meaning it that way. Right. So it's like we have these two options, and the boundaries make things very clear for both people.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:11:57

And to have that yeah, that I'll just meet you there, or I leave after five minutes or 15 minutes, or this is what I need to do for me in this situation. That's all you can do, is what I need to do for me in this situation to handle it.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:12:12

So good.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:12:13

This is a good example. Thank you. It's helpful for me to think through this, and I'll be very sad when I'm late for this person and they leave after ten minutes. But it'll be good for me to remember the importance of this person about being on time for them, because I definitely know for me, I always appreciate when people have grace with me that I'm running behind and I have a lot going on, et cetera, et cetera. But at the same time, I need to respect that. Certain people need to have boundaries with that, but that's what they need to do, is they need to have the boundaries and say, if you can't be here by this time, you need to call me and say, you can't be there and I'm going to do something else, or this is how I'm going to handle it. And that's how they do their boundary. And to understand that.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:12:50

Yeah. And it's like everyone's different. It's like one thing goes for one other person and something doesn't go well are all different gifts. And we all have different personalities. And it's like just boundaries, I think, just create a beautiful way for us to interact with each other and know what kind of relationship we're in with that person. We have different relationships. I have different relationships with all of my friends. Right. It's just a different relationship. So just being clear on that, that's how you create a real relationship that feels good.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:13:16

And just being clear that that's what's going to happen.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:13:21

Yeah.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:13:22

This 5 seconds is setting a boundary. Can you talk more about how that works and what it looks like?

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:13:27

Yeah. So I always back. I'm like, I could teach you to set a boundary in 5 seconds. It's so simple. It's so fast. It's like, here's the template for creating a boundary. When this happens, I will do this. Fill in the blank. When this happens, I'll do this. If you're 15 minutes late to meeting me, I will leave the restaurant. If you're 15 minutes late and we're riding together, I will leave without you. If you have more than two alcoholic beverages, I will find another ride like it's. When this happens, I'll do this. When someone lights up a cigarette in my house, I'm going to ask them to leave. Right. It's very simple. When this happens, I will do this. Setting the boundary takes 5 seconds. Get out a piece of paper and write that template out. What's difficult is the implementing it, the sticking to it, the making them effective in your life. We talked about reasons, like people don't create boundaries. Right. We talked about the obstacles there. It's like people they don't create them because I think they don't want people to feel uncomfortable. Most people are scared to tell people, this is my boundary, because they're scared of what people will think of them. And if people are going to get mad and think certain things of them, but kind of like we just touched on it's. Like, I think of it the other way. That's what's really building the honest relationship. And then I always say people are just in the passenger seat of their life. They're not being intentional. Things are happening to them. They're complaining about it. They're not being intentional with figuring it out. Right. We just like to complain, and we're not being intentional with, okay, what do I want to do about that? So we never think of setting boundaries. We're just kind of another reason I kind of think, too, which is a sneaky one, is I think sometimes people almost and this sneaks up on you. But we kind of like to be almost the victim or the martyr. And it's like we like to complain about what's happening to us and we're getting beat up on. But it's funny. It's like, I have friends, family, clients, whatever, and they'll just complain about people. And I'm like I'm like, oh, have you said anything? Like. What have you said to them about it? And they're like, I haven't brought it off. I haven't said anything about it. And that's always so funny to me. It's like we think there's so many difficult people in our life. And I always say maybe it's not difficult people. It's you, not being intentional with what your boundary is without cut all these difficult people, right? It would fix it all. But we want to just be like, oh, all these difficult people. Funny to me.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:15:53

That's what I might have even mentioned on this show before. One of my favorite friendships about how we became friends was because I was in college. And the way that it worked, my dorm room was right off of the lobby. It was a very unique situation. There was two long hallways. The girls were down one hall and another long hallway, and the guys were down that hall. And then my room was off the lobby because I was, like, accepted late. And so it was like a room that they used to have for parents that visited or something. Guys weren't allowed down the girls hall. And girls weren't allowed down the guys hall. But anyone could come to my door at any point in time. So people would come and knock on my door and the guys would have to walk by my door to go to the mess hall to go eat. So they'd often stop and see if Shauna wanted to go to dinner. Everyone could access my door and access me, but they couldn't access all the other doors. But I would sit and I laugh loud. I talk loud. I'm a loud person in general. And so I would sit right inside my door and talk to people. I don't know why that's what I did, but that's what I often did. And one of the girls that was on the second floor of the girl's dorm in there, she came over to me once and was like, would you be quiet? Like we're trying to study. Could you quiet down? And I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. Thank you so much. Like, yeah, I can totally quiet down. And I quieted down, and it turns out that all these girls would be in the lobby complaining about how loud I was and how disturbing I was and all type of stuff. And she and I became good friends. Like, she later came over, invited me to go to eat, and she and I became friends. But she just came over and said, could you please be quiet? And I was quiet. But that's all I need. Like, I didn't know that I was disturbing people and being loud. Like, all it required was somebody letting me know, and that's all it took to fix the situation that everyone else was over there just gossiping and talking bad about how I was being so loud and laughing so loud and talking so loud.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:17:40

Isn't that funny? Like, how much people it's like how much time we spend just complaining. And it's like, well, have you said anything? It's like, well, no, it's like, yeah, just say something. Right? But we humans, right? We want to complain almost. Like, we want to complain and be negative. It's funny. It's interesting, right?

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:17:59

Yes. And really, that woman, I really appreciate her because she was just willing to just step up and just go over there and see what happens. And maybe other people have had really bad experiences with people that reacted very poorly and were insulted when somebody asked them to be quiet instead of being like, oh my gosh, I didn't realize I was being loud. Thank you so much. And quieting down. So there's that piece of that as well but yeah.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:18:20

We're worried about the uncomfortable feeling or like, the leaning into an uncomfortable feeling. That's what I think keeps most people, they associate it with a negative feeling. Either that they're going to feel uncomfortable saying it or that the other person's going to feel a certain way. And it's like we make it up in our head. Like, we don't want to feel uncomfortable emotion, but we are feeling uncomfortable emotion, right? We're thinking we're saving ourselves, but we're not. We're feeling resentful and bitter and angry and whatever cheated. And it's like you're avoiding the hard emotion by feeling hard emotion. And that's unproductive emotion.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:18:56

Oh, Jacquelyn, that's so good. That was so good. Can you say that again? So you're avoiding uncomfortable emotions by experiencing.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:19:06

Oh, yeah. And I always call it like, unproductive hard emotion, right? Like, we're avoiding the hard emotion, but that hard emotion would be productive. We're choosing the hard emotion ahead of time. We're like, well, I don't want to feel uncomfortable telling them something. They might get upset, and so that's going to be this difficult emotion. But it's like you're already feeling hard emotion right now by not saying anything. You're feeling resentful and bitter, and so you're choosing that. And I'm like, I always tell my clients, like, that's unproductive hard emotion. You're still feeling hard emotion. You're not getting away from the hard emotion. You're just feeling unproductive hard emotion instead of facing the hard emotion and growing, like, productive versus unproductive hard emotion is what it is. I should do a podcast on that. Unproductive versus productive hard emotion.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:19:50

Yes. No, I love that. I love that. The unproductive hard emotions, I think I love that. I think that is such a beautiful way to put that in a way to see that. And I think it goes back to the episode I did about emotions as indicators that really, it's about the other person. And there might be those days that if that same friend or person who wasn't a friend, she's a stranger. When she walked up to me that time, when she walked up to me that day, I was in a good place in life. And so my reaction to her was the reaction I should have had. But there are other days where, again, emotions indicators, where my response to her might have been about me and where I was at, where I was feeling like people were trying to silence me, where I was feeling that I was in a place that because of my job, I didn't have a job. I was in college at the time, right? Maybe I have a job that I was feeling silenced at and not listened to. And so when she walked up to me and asked me to be quiet at a restaurant or at a park or somewhere else, that my reaction to her would have been harsh. My reaction, the emotion I felt would have been about something entirely unrelated to her. And that's why, when we had the opposite of emotions indicators, that reaction was an indicator to me that why am I having a strong emotion for somebody calmly asking me to be quiet when it makes perfect sense for them to ask me to be quiet? Oh, it's because I'm feeling silent somewhere in my life. Where is that and what should I do about it? And that's what that episode 40 that we had around emotions indicators is about was like listening to why am I having this strong emotion? Like, anytime you have that emotion, what is that actually about? Because it's not probably about them coming over and doing that. But I think in our society right now, especially post pandemic, especially with everything, everyone has these hard emotions that they're feeling that are right on the surface. And it might be that you have this resentment and bitterness towards somebody else and a boundary you're not setting, then you're being triggered by somebody else. And so, yeah, you might then be triggered by somebody in a restaurant saying something to you because you're not setting a boundary with your partner or your kids or somebody else, because those things kind of stack up and you have those unproductive emotions. It all connects Jacquelyn.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:21:53

And that's so good, what you're saying, because I feel like what you just touched on is one of the things when I work on boundaries with my clients, because it's one of the things we work through in my program, is letting people be responsible for their own emotions. Right? Because like you said, it's like you're looking at it from the other angle of looking at it from yourself, like, why am I responding that way? But teaching my clients like, hey, you need to know that. You need to let other people if they get upset and they whatever, that's up to them, right. They are always choosing their own emotion, and we have to be okay with that. Like, in order to live the life that we want to live, we have to be okay with letting people feel and think whatever they want. They can feel how we're like, we are not responsible for that. We are responsible for our feelings and our thoughts always, because what that person's, how they're responding has nothing to do with you. But we sacrifice so much of our life and what we want to be and what we want to do because we're worried about other people's responses and other people's emotions. It has nothing to do with you. You have to let them own that.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:23:01

Yeah. Unfortunately, they don't realize that. I don't even always realize that my response doesn't have anything to do with the other person. So it's something that we're all working on, right? And so, yeah, it has nothing to do with you. Their response is not what you're responsible for. You drawing that boundary is what you're responsible for and taking care of yourself and recognizing that. The first time you draw a boundary let's start with kids, right? So the first time you draw a boundary, if your kid explodes about it, you can't be responsible for their reaction for it. Right. You can do your best and presented it. You can offer them cover afterwards, but you just have to keep doing it. And that's what you have to do, and that's how it is. And your response is all you can be responsible for in those situations.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:23:44

100%. I had an example of a boundary situation. I had a client who she was remarried, and her new husband had kids, and they had their house together. And her rule was no dogs allowed in the house. She didn't allow dogs in the home. She had a really little older dog, and when the dogs would come over, they would fight. And she just said, no dogs in the house. And that's a very respectable request, right. Like, don't bring your dogs over to the house. Well, every time the kids came over, his kids these were her new husband's kids, they'd all bring their dogs over. And she kept saying, don't bring your dogs over. Like, next time, whatever. And every time so we're coaching, and she's getting just venomous, like, she's getting so mad, and it's affecting their marriage because she's like, why are you not standing up for me to her husband? And why aren't you telling? And why are they disrespecting me when I'm saying but she's, hey, next time don't bring your dog.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:24:36

It's like she's not, right? And so I said to her, you need to set a boundary. Instead of just being angry and bitter and letting it affect your relationship, you just need to set a clear boundary here when this happens, I'll. Do this. So when you bring your dogs over, I said, what do you want to set? What do you want to say? And she's like, well, I don't know. I could ask them to leave them the car. Great, what else? I could get a crate and put in a drug. Great. Let's say let's do both. Let's say both of those. So her boundary was, if you bring the dogs over, I will ask you to leave them in the car with the windows down or put them in the crate in the garage. Those were the things she said. And she was so scared to implement. She's like, they're going to get mad. You don't understand. They're going to get upset. And I'm like, if they choose to be upset, that is on them. You have clearly stated what you're going to do and text it out and say it. You've clearly stated. So if they choose to take that action, that's their responsibility. If they want to get mad, if they want to be upset about it, if they want to leave, that's on them. That has nothing to do with you. All you have done is protected. Like, that is for you, that is for your home, that is for you. That's their emotions. And so she started doing it. But it's just such a great example of what we're talking about. It's like, that's on them, right? That's on them. If they bring the dog over, you already said that's what's going to happen. So just a funny example.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:26:01

Yeah, and it's a good example, too, of how the boundary was, don't bring the dogs over and they're not meeting that first boundary. So then you have to take it to a step of then if you bring the dogs over, the dogs need to go in the car or they need to go in a car in the garage. So that's important to remember that. So even like, the example of people being late, your boundary is you need to be on time. But that's not enough of a boundary. The boundary needs to be, if you are late, I will leave or I will drive myself so that I will meet you there. If you're not here on time.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:26:35

I almost look at it as like a request, right? Like, my request is that you're on time. My request is that you don't bring your dogs over. My boundary is like, what I'm going to do if my request is not met, right? Like, I'm going to request that from you. I can't tell you what to do, but that's my request. But if you do this, my request is please don't smoke in my home. My boundary is if you light up a cigarette at my home, I'm going to ask you to leave.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:26:59

Yes, this is so helpful because I guess the request and the boundary thing is not something that I've separated in my mind and I have to recognize that those are the two different steps of it. That's so helpful. Thank you.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:27:11

Tell people, like, you can't control people. Everyone can do whatever they want to do. Right. It's funny. I think I can do whatever I want to do and anyone else can do whatever they want to do. Right. We can make requests like, this is what I would like, but my happiness doesn't depend on what that person does or doesn't do. I have boundaries for that. Right? You can do whatever you want. I can request what I want, but I can't control you. I can control me. Right. And that's where my boundaries come in. If this happens, I'll do this. You can do whatever you want, but if this happens, I'll do this. The problem comes when we try to control people, right. And we base our happiness on if they're doing what we're asking to do. Boundaries are not about controlling people. That's one of the biggest things that I biggest misconceptions and confusion, I think that comes with boundaries, is people think they're creating boundaries, but they're not. They're just trying to control other people and give them an ultimatum, right? Like, if you do this, this is what I'm going to do. It's not about that at all. It's about you. Boundaries are not to control other people, but to protect you. And I think that's a very important piece to question with yourself when you're creating boundaries, because so many people create their boundaries and it's about controlling people. It's about you. They can do whatever they want. Right.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:28:25

That's so helpful and to understand that difference. So going back to the dog example, so with that, I might be tempted again. Hopefully it wouldn't be my partner and then my partner's kids, right. But I'd be tempted to say, if you bring the dogs over, I will not invite you back again. And that's probably more of an ultimatum, right.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:28:48

Such a good example. Yeah. They can do whatever they want, right. We can't control them. No, okay, you bring your dog. But here's what I'm going to do. If this happens, all this even when we talked about the smoking, right? I'm not saying you can't smoke. Controlling is saying you can't smoke cigarettes. A boundary is saying if you smoke in my house or I'm going to ask you, you can smoke all you want. I'm not trying to control you or like drinking, right? It's like if you drink more than two drinks, I'm just throwing out an example, like, I'm not going to get in the car with you and I'm going to find another ride. You can drink as much as you want. That means if you drink three, that I'm going to be like, no, you can drink ten, go ahead. But if you drink more than two, I'm going to find a different ride home. That takes all of the angst and the controlling and that negative energy. I don't have to feel that at all. I don't have to be mad if you're bringing your dogs over at all. I don't have to be mad if you're drinking. Smoking? No way. Smoke it up, drink it up. Bring your dogs. If this happens, I'll do this feel so much better. It's like you're taking responsibility rather than spending all this time trying to control things you can't control. That's the beauty of a boundary is it's about you. It's about responsibility.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:30:04

Yes. So for an example, if somebody was parked in your driveway and they were going to stay for ten days, and they stay longer than the ten days, how can you draw a boundary with that? Like, if you stay past the ten days, I'm going to but they're already parked in your driveway with something. What's the way you can draw a boundary with that?

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:30:27

You mean if you're here past ten days, I'm going to call a tow truck?

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:30:30

Yes, I guess that is an option. Right. Because I'm trying to think of things that people I know are driven crazy by. Like if somebody leaves cigarette butts outside your house, when they smoke outside your house, how can you draw boundaries? So they won't do that in the future because it's already done. So I'm trying to think of boundaries for some things I know people have talked to you about that annoy them.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:30:51

Yes. If people are putting out cigarettes at your house yeah. It would be like, I don't allow smoking on my property. Right. Like, that would be my boundary. That's just a no go. You can smoke all you want, but not at my house.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:31:02

Is that a request or a boundary, though?

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:31:06

Well, remember, the request is I'd like you to not smoke. Right. The boundary is, hey, if you come over and you're smoking, I'm going to ask you to leave. Right. Like, you're not welcome on my property. I'm going to ask you to leave. The request is, I don't like smoking in my house. The boundary is, if you do that, I'm going to ask you to leave. Right. So if people are leaving cigarette butts and you don't want cigarette butts there, it's like, then don't allow the smoking. Right. I'm going to ask you to leave. Hey, I don't allow smoking. I don't allow smoking at my house.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:31:36

Okay, so that's not an ultimatum then. So that would still be okay because it wouldn't be an ultimatum to do that. That's good to know. And I like the tow truck.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:31:45

Or like the car situation. I mean, that would have to be like, if the car stays past ten days, I'm going to call a tow truck. If this happens, I'll do this. Right.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:31:54

No, that's helpful. Yes. And trying to think about what your options are, and I think that people get stuck in just being upset about things instead of recognizing they have options.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:32:04

Right. Or trying to control people rather than just saying if this happens, or your request could be, hey, pick your cigarette butts up. If that doesn't happen, hey, if you don't pick your cigarette butts up, then I'm not going to allow you to smoke outside my house. Right? Like my request is pick up your cigarette butts, but if cigarette butts are left in my house, I'm going to, what? I'm going to say, you're not allowed to smoke at my house anymore. Not saying you can't smoke, you can smoke all you want. The boundaries to protect my home. Like, this is my home. You can smoke all you want, right? Like you can drink all you want, but if this happens, I'll do that. You drink more than this, I'm getting a ride home. It's very specific, right.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:32:43

Exactly. And then the enforcing that piece is the one step that you have to be comfortable with. And do you recommend when discussing boundaries and setting boundaries, is there kind of a formula when you share it with them or is it best to talk to them not in the moment about it? Is there anything with the boundaries?

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:33:01

That's interesting that you said that because I always tell people, you don't have to tell it depends on what the boundary is, but you don't have to tell the person the boundary at all because that's for you. So it's very important that you said that. I always say sometimes you want to tell people a boundary and sometimes you don't have to because remember, the boundary has nothing to do with that person, with controlling them. And it's all about you. So if it's appropriate, you might tell them, but you don't have to because it's for you. It's what you're going to do. They can do whatever they want. So it's interesting that you're saying that. When is it appropriate, right? Obviously she's going to have to tell them, hey, if the dogs come over, I'm going to ask you. But she doesn't have to, right? She's requested they don't bring the dog over. So if they bring the dogs over, it's like, hey, guys, no dogs inside. There's a crate in the garage. Or you can leave them in the car. She could tell them that, then she could tell them the boundary before. It doesn't matter because it's not for controlling them, it's for what she's going to do, right. She's already requested. Does that make sense? You don't have to. I think a lot of times people think like, I'm going to create these boundaries and I'm going to go tell everyone what I'm going to do. And it's like, no, because that falls more into the trying to control people. And it's like if you've made a request, the boundary has nothing to do with them, it has everything to do with you. What are you going to do? What action are you going to take if that request hasn't been met? So sometimes you might tell them sometimes you might not. You might find it appropriate, you might not.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:34:33

So with the request, then, and knowing the difference between requests and boundaries, too. But for your relationships, it's probably important to be clear about what you're requesting. So you're clear about what time or you're clear about what the expectations are.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:34:47

Of course. Yeah. People look at it like, so I'm not supposed to almost like, what am I going to get walked on? Or whatever? I can't control the other person. It's like, oh, no, you can very much know what you're looking for and have requests. It's just when we start basing our happiness on whether someone meets our request or not, that's where people get into trouble. They're like, I'm only happy if this person is listening to what I'm telling them to do. Right. Where, again, the boundary is like, if that request isn't made, this is my responsibility. This is how I'm going to contribute. This is what I'm going to do. Rather than spending all of our emotions and having those negative emotions come from trying to control other people. And I'm only happy if they're doing what I'm saying. Anyone can do whatever they want. They can do whatever they want, but I can also do what I want, like, do whatever you want. I'm not basing my happiness on that. But here's what I will do if this happens. Right? But controlling other people is where so many of us struggle with negative emotion and not being happy, and especially in relationships, instead of taking the responsibility that's like, I don't have to be upset. I don't have to feel any negative emotion at all. I can do this. If this happens, I'll just do this instead of, wow, why are you doing this? And you need to do this. No, it never works.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:36:05

So we'll just go to the simple example of somebody that smokes on your back porch, and so somebody's going to go smoke on it. Like, I don't need to feel the need to say, make sure you throw away your cigarette butts. I can just ignore the situation. And then if they leave the cigarette butts the next time, I can say, hey, make sure you throw your cigarette butts away. Because if not, I can't have people smoking on my property. And I'd have to ask you not to smoke here.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:36:30

Yeah, I think there's nothing wrong with having a bucket out. If you have a party and saying, hey, guys, I really want all the cigarette butts put in this bucket. That's my request. That's how I want to run my home. And then I come out and there's cigarette butts there. Right. There's cigarette butts all over. Next time people come over, it's like, hey, guys, the cigarette butts didn't get put in there. If you light up a cigarette, you're going to have to leave my request. Now is there's no smoking at the party, right?

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:36:58

Yeah, just leave it. Simple. With your request and simple with a boundary.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:37:02

Now, I've decided no smoking at the party. Right. Like, it didn't work out last time I requested, so now no smoking at the party. And if someone goes out, it's like, hey, you're going to have to leave. Again, it's up to you to be very specific. That's what I always told my clients. Like, what you're asking, it's like they have to decide very specifically what they're going to say and what they're going to do. If something bothers them, if they're triggered by something, then you have to be very specific about if this happens, then I will do this. Right. So put a bucket out. I want all the cigarette butts put in there. If they're not put in there right, then what am I going to do? Then what is the boundary I'm going to make? Now, my request is no smoking. I've decided no smoking here because it didn't work out last time. If someone likes a cigarette, I will ask them to leave my house. Just being very specific about what you will do in the situation is so powerful.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:37:56

Yeah. And not needing to start it with, and if you don't do this, then I'm going to do this.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:38:01

Right. Or getting like, super mad. Oh, my gosh. It's like, no, I already decided what I was going to do. Hey, I'm going to ask you to leave. That's where the uncomfortable thing comes in, right? Because we don't want to go out and tell that person that just lit up the cigarette to leave our house because that's going to be uncomfortable. But wait a second. That was my boundary. That's what I said I was going to do. I already requested no smoking at my house because it didn't work out last night. So that's on them. If they get upset, that's on them. I shouldn't be uncomfortable. I shouldn't be uncomfortable because I already told you, hey, if you smoke, there's no smoking here, I'm going to have to ask you to leave. Right? Why should I feel uncomfortable going out and saying that, hey, that was my boundary. I already told you that. But we're so afraid. Well, that's on them.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:38:45

Yes, exactly. It probably takes some practice, I would think, too, to be able to think through it, which is why the coaching comes in valuable for figuring that out.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:38:55

That's funny. I did. I put that on the note. It's like the sticking to it is where I think coaching really comes into play. Because what coaching does is it allows you to feel hard emotion. It allows you to I always say, I think the biggest gift I give my clients, like coaching, is that I allow them to get back into the emotion needed to do what they said they wanted to do. So in between our sessions, they might be like, you know what, this is what I'm going to do. And they have that feeling, right? But then a couple of days later, oh, never mind, or, I don't want to feel that hurt, or whatever. Then it's like the next week when we're coaching again, it's like, hey, they come and they say, oh, I fell off and I didn't stick to it. Whatever. And I'm like, okay, let's evaluate it. Let's look at exactly what happened. Let's retry what should have happened. Let's lay that out, and let's get back into the feeling over and over again until it sticks, until it becomes, like, just who they are, right?

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:39:49

Yeah, that makes very good sense because it's easy to avoid things and to pretend it doesn't exist or doesn't bother you or wallow in it a little bit when you don't have the support of someone helping you make it productive. Like, I love that concept of having it be productive. Hard emotions.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:40:06

Yeah.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:40:08

Makes a big difference. This is so wonderful. This has been so helpful. Do you have any other pieces or tips on being able to really make this effective?

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:40:19

Yeah, so the three quick tips for boundaries. So the first one is just really remembering that boundaries are for you. I think that's the most important thing to remember with boundaries is are they protecting you or are you trying to control someone else? Because boundaries are always just to protect you. And then the second tip for creating boundaries is being very specific. The more specific you are, the more ready you're going to be to enforce your boundary. A lot of times we make these vague boundaries, and then when things happen, we're like, so the more specific I know my clients are like, that's the thing that you've helped us with the most is being very specific with the actions and the boundaries. So it's like, if this kind of like, you were throwing things at me, right? Each person has to sit down and be like, if this happens, I'll do this. If this happens, I'll do this. And the more specific you can be, the more ready you will be. Because we think we set these boundaries and then something happens, we're like, oh, but we didn't think of that. We didn't know that part would happen. And it's like, no, you need to be very specific. And if that happens, hone your boundary, right? Like, you retake a look at it and you evaluate it, and maybe you make it even more specific as things happen. And then the third, I guess tip, is being committed to following through. The only way a boundary is going to be effective is if you are 100% committed to following through, no matter what. When that happens, you are going to do that. That's the only way it's effective. And that's where, like we said, I think coaching is so valuable, right, because it's helping you lean into that. We'll call it the productive, uncomfortable emotion, right? And that's a huge part of holding our boundaries is letting other people be responsible for their own emotions. You are not responsible for that. Let them react however they want. You need to be committed to following through with your boundary to make it effective.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:42:13

Yes. And to actually possibly I think the coaching would help too, with when you think about what that boundary is to be like, what is it going to be like to ask somebody to leave my house? Is that the boundary I need? Or is the boundary enough to do X, Y, or Z that doesn't need that level, right? Will it still be effective if I just ask them to not smoke the cigarette? Or is it necessary to ask them to leave? And that's what's actually going to be the boundary that feels the most comfortable and actually addresses the situation in the way that I need it to. And so I think that's helpful to talk through the options. And in the moment when we're setting boundaries, I'm guessing that it might be better to have thought through it a little bit so that you're knowing what you're setting.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:42:57

Because a lot of times it might not even need to get there. The request might take care of it, right? Like, just the simple, hey, can you do this? Hey, can you only drink two drinks tonight? Hey, can you not smoke in my backyard? The request usually will take care a boundary is when, okay, now what am I going to do? My request isn't a boundary. That's when why they're so powerful and why they're created is like, they protect us for if our requests aren't met, what are we going to do about it?

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:43:27

Yes. And as much as possible, making the boundary an action we can do, like, I will drive myself there, or I will leave, or I will do this. I think asking other people to leave your house is a harder one than you leaving someone else's house or you driving yourself, or you getting a cab, or you making your own dinner, or you doing whatever. So it's easier when the boundary is something you do instead of you're still asking someone to leave and they still have to leave, right. So it's a little harder for those.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:43:59

Yeah. Like, what action will I take? Right? Because asking someone to leave is my action, right? That's I'm doing that. What action will I take if this request isn't? But most people are going to respect a request. That's what we were talking about. Most people, they don't even tell people what their request is or how they want to be treated, right. They just get frustrated and angry when other people aren't acting the way they want them to. Right? Like you talking loud or whatever. Well, just come ask me. Just make a request. Hey, can you quiet it down? Most people don't even make the request. They just want everyone to read their mind to just be the person they want them to be. That's not how the world works. Everyone's different.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:44:42

One of my dear friends, we had a conversation about you teach people how to treat you, and it was surprising that we've been friends this long and she never heard me say that or talk about that. But there is an element, and it sound harsh when you say it, and sometimes it's good for you to think of it as like, I need to teach people how to treat me. But it really is a matter of if you don't tell them that this is unacceptable, if you don't tell them that this is what you need, then they may not know that. And sometimes it's their lack of awareness, and sometimes it's really they do want you to feel respected. So they do want to be on time. If they knew it was that important to you, that would be fine, because maybe their friends are like me, and I'm the one that's always like, oh, it's fine, it's no big deal. I have a book with me. I don't mind scrolling on my phone. Actually, I'm running behind too. It's great that you're late. So then I need to know my two friends that know I feel disrespected when you show up late. And so it's important for me to know those two friends so that I can either let them know in advance, oh my gosh, can we reschedule? Because today I'm really packed and I will probably be late if we're meeting today, or that there needs to be a different plan that we're not writing together or something like that. So it is important for you to communicate those pieces and teach people that this is who you are and what you need and what your needs are so that they can meet them and that it is too much to ask them. And I appreciate my friends that will tell me. I know it just looks like you're inviting one more kid to this party because you're bringing your niece or your cousin's daughter or whatever, but really I can't handle more kids being here, whereas in my mind, oh, it's just one more kid, it's no big deal. So you need to teach people and tell people that so they know what your requests are and what your needs are.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:46:22

Great example in even the being late, being like, yeah, I have friends who stay with me. I'm like, oh yeah, I have an extra minute to catch up. Be late, it's fine. I have certain friends, I know they're probably going to be 15 minutes late. It doesn't matter, right? But then other friends, I'm like, well, that matters to them. And it's just about knowing, right? Most people want to respect your request. They want to know how to interact with you. They want to contribute that way we just don't let them know, and then we just complain about it and feel negative emotion. It's so interesting.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:46:55

Yes. And even if you don't complain and you just internalize that, people just internalize and they just internalize that. And the other person, they get why you're agitated with them, you know what I mean? Or you start showing up late or not expecting them, you know what I mean? You just get into this pattern and then you don't have you don't teach them that this is what you would like and you're not making their requests. And so it's good to just be clear.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:47:18

It's like just take responsibility and say it.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:47:21

I think that is so important, that is so valuable. So we have been having a great conversation, but we do need to move on to our self care spotlight, which I need to rename because self care is more self maintenance than actually just self care. So it's very important. So what do you do to maintain and take care of yourself so that you can do your coaching and do all the wonderful things that you bring into the world?

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:47:47

Good question. So my favorite let me think my favorite self care. I look at my coaching myself and being really aware of my thoughts because they create how I'm feeling. I look at that as self care. I always laugh. I'm like coaching is self care. Getting coached as self care, but also coaching yourself and being aware of what I'm thinking and watching myself think and keeping that in check. I think that's my ultimate self care. And I'm kind of introverted. Like I told you before, I don't want to stay stingy with my energy. I'm very selective. I love connecting with my friends, just having coffee. That's my ultimate self care is like connection. And I love to read, always reading. I love to learn about the human brain and how we can get it working for us. So I'd say those are my favorite self care.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:48:37

Nice. I like those. Those are all good things. Yes. We love talking about it each week to give people reminders of how they can look at how to take care of themselves better and integrate that into their life. Other thing we always do is give very practical, applicable ways for people to take home what we've been talking about and apply it to their lives. So of what we've talked about today, what is something that people can just in the next 24 hours, I feel like they can practice setting a boundary. Should they start examining something that is triggering for them that they should start thinking about setting a boundary around. And maybe do your 5 seconds rules to do that. What do you think?

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:49:12

Yeah, I love summing that up too. Like just actionable things. So yeah, do the five second. Like when this happens, I will do like think of something that you wish was different, something that bothers you or gives you negative emotion that you wish was different. And. Then set a boundary. You can do it in 5 seconds. When this happens, I will do this. And then the three things, the three actions to take with that are one, make sure that it's for you. Protecting yourself and not controlling anyone else is the first thing. And then the second thing is make it very specific. When this happens, I'll do this. Really think about it. Make sure it's specific. And then the third tip is the action is be 100% committed to following through on the boundary that you set. Even when it feels uncomfortable. Even when it's an uncomfortable emotion, lean into that. Be fully committed to that.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:50:03

Yes. Because that's a productive emotion. So we're going to get out of these unproductive emotions around it.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:50:08

We got another podcast episode.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:50:11

Yes. We're having conversations. We just had an episode that touched on Burnout, and we're going to talk a little more about Burnout. And I feel like the burnout is when you have those unproductive emotions, is what causes the burnout because they keep hitting the same spots. And that's when you get at the burnout. And so if you want to get out of Burnout, you got to get rid of the unproductive emotions and move into the productive ones, even though they're still uncomfortable and hard and they're not fun, but they're the ones you got to move to. So you can start doing the change that's actually going to do stuff. And boundaries is part of that. So we're glad we had you to talk about that.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:50:41

Yes. So good.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:50:43

And you know what I missed? I've been missing this lately. So as part of the self care spotlight, we actually have a coloring book that I sent to my guests as a thank you for being on the show. Isn't that great? And yet I've been forgetting to do it because I'm getting so wrapped up in great conversations.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:51:00

So I know the gift was hanging out with you today. I had so much fun. Yeah, that was a gift in itself.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:51:07

You get a coloring book to remember this quality time that we got to spend together. So there's two options. There's one that you've got this, which is Inspirational quotes, and the other one is Vintage Mermaid and Magnificent Ocean, which is obviously it has quotes as well, but it's the Sea creatures and the mermaids and whatnot. So which one of those can I send you? The color of grit is the line of coloring books.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:51:31

You've got this.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:51:41

You've got this. We're going to send this to you. We're going to give you some inspiration in your coloring with doing that so you can have a little more to add to your self care arsenal. So I can't believe I almost forgot we didn't do it in the right spot because I almost forgot again. So we're definitely going to get that off to you. And I want to hear a little bit more about if people have resonated with you, because I know I resonated with you. What is the best way to get in touch with you?

You have your podcast, Life in the Driver's Seat, so they can definitely listen to you and connect with you with a podcast. And then the best way to connect with you to possibly even do coaching with you. Tell us more.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:52:09

Yeah, great. So yes. Podcast life in the driver's seat. And then my website is jacquelynemery.com, and I do a coaching package. My package is called life in the driver's seat. And, like we were chatting about earlier, I work one on one with my clients for six month packages, and we cover, like, we talked about my method, the TFPG method, and that think, feel, prioritize, grow. Those are, like, the four steps we go through. That's how I work with my clients. That's the method I use. Think. Like, we chatted about earlier. It's about uncovering. I think that's the biggest self care. It's, like, uncovering what we're thinking because that is how we're feeling that's dictating how we're feeling and how we're showing up and our identity. So that's one of the very first things we work on in my program together. And then Feel is about leaning into hard emotion, which is, like, what we talked about today. That's what keeps so many people from setting boundaries or making any change, is if they're not able to, we're not taught to feel hard emotion. So that's what we do in the program. And on top of that, we learn to create emotion. Like, how do you want to feel so that you're not just a victim to things going on around you. You can generate and feel how you want to feel on purpose. And then Prioritize is all about creating life, that you fill in your life with things that you love. So many times we're doing all these things right, and it's not what would really light us up. So it's about managing our time. Yes, but also just filling our time with the things that would really make us happy. And then the last part of that is Grow. And that's where we actually take action, and we make a life vision, and we decide, what do you want in your life? What do you want your health to look like, your relationships to look like? All of it. And that's when we take action. And, like, we chatted about earlier. It's like the first part of the program is setting you up so that by the time we get to the part where we're taking action and setting goals, you're the person who is able to do that. You're the person, you've become the person able to take action, effective action. So many people start with the action. They just want to lose the weight and better the relationship. But you can't do those things until you become the person who's capable of creating new results in all of those areas, you have to become that person first. It's very intentional how I set up the program and the steps.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:54:22

That's amazing. And six months is a wonderful amount of time to kind of get into the meat of it and figure those things out. That's incredible. Yeah. So going to your website is the best way to connect with you, then To get involved in that

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:54:33

On Instagram, just Jacquelyn Emery. I'm on Facebook. You can find me and hang out with me there. I also have a Facebook group. You can find all that information on my website, too.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:54:45

Yeah, perfect. And we will have that stuff in the show notes, so you guys can just click on it and get connected to Jacquelyn and get more of this and get more of her podcast, too, because obviously she's lovely to chat with. So thank you so much for coming on today. This has been great. I know I got a lot out of it. I'm sure all of our community has as well, and this has been very valuable. Thank you, Jacquelyn.

Jacquelyn Emery [: 00:55:04

I had so much fun with you. Thanks for having me. It was so great.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:55:09

If you're interested in getting your copy of one of our coloring books, just Google The Color of Grit or look it up on Amazon. We also have downloadable pages available. You can find more about that on our website, Thegritshow.com. Self care is most important. After all, you're the only one of you that this world has got, and that means something.

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