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Last Updated: September 2, 2024

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188: Karen Middleton on Weaving Stories Through Art and Data - A Veteran's Creative Journey

Also available on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Ezpw-MLuHdk

How has storytelling influenced your understanding of yourself and the world around you? For Karen Middleton, she shares how she created a data visualization firm specializing in qualitative storytelling, visualization, and design.

Karen shares her unique story of moving from the structured world of military intelligence to the expressive fields of quilting, textile, and fiber art, alongside her innovative work in qualitative data visualization. Through her dual passions, Karen illustrates the power of storytelling, connection, and the therapeutic nature of creativity. She also shares her experiences with job loss and how she used this time to focus on her passions and start her own business, K Middleton Design Studios.

Learn how personal experiences and professional skills can intertwine to create impactful art and data narratives, resonating with themes of personal growth, autonomy, and the quest for understanding human experiences.

Resources Mentioned:

• https://kmiddletondesignstudios.com/
• https://www.facebook.com/KMDesign2020/
• https://www.instagram.com/kmiddletonartquilting/
• https://www.pinterest.com/kmiddletondesign/
• https://www.kmiddletondatadesign.com/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/karenamiddletondesign2020/

Read our Monday, Nov. 4th, 2024 newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/649405ef0b0b/holdingdownthefort

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Jen Amos 0:00

All right. Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode here at holding on the ports. I am so excited to be interviewing Karen Middleton on our show today. Karen, welcome to the show.

Karen Middleton 0:08

Thank you for having me. I'm really excited.

Jen Amos 0:11

Yes, yes. I really enjoyed our offline chat. Before we officially press record. We're like, Wait, we'll wait. Let's stop talking. So we can save this for the recording.

Karen Middleton 0:20

We know right into it. Like, let's go.

Jen Amos 0:22

Yeah, we totally did that for people that are getting to know you for the first time. Karen, why don't you open up with just giving us a quick snapshot of your life right now, particularly what keeps you busy or excited nowadays? Sure.

Karen Middleton 0:33

So currently, I finished my first time on pocket, it's totally weird, because my entire experience has been doing the interview, and not being interviewed. Yeah, the total role reversal. So my brain is like resetting. But I'm the owner, Founder, CEO, Creative Design Officer, pick a title. I'm behind Kate Middleton design studios, and I kind of do two things. So one, I am a practicing Studio Artist and instructor. I specialize in quilting textile and fiber art. In fact, this is my studio behind me, if there's a video associated with it, here's my studio. Yes.

Jen Amos 1:11

I love it. By the way, I love the rainbow, like how you organized or your fabric like in like rainbow order.

Karen Middleton 1:19

at it, I love shows like that on Netflix. So that's where that comes from. Love it, love it. And then number two, second thing that I do, I'm a data designer, I specialize in helping researchers who work with qualitative data, figure out how to kind of visualize design and communicate that information that they've collected in the course of their research to make it more engaging, more impactful for stakeholders, and then inspire action to be taken based upon the research they've done. So that's kind of the two lines of business so to speak, that I specialize

Jen Amos 1:53

in and do. Yeah, and you know, when I was going through your bio, and just looking up, you know, the parts of your business, I was thinking to myself, I wrote in my notes that you're like a visual, and a data driven storyteller. Like one thing I find fascinating, we could talk a little bit, we could talk about both sides of your business. But when it comes to textiles, I found it intriguing to know that you wanted to tell a story through like quilting and textiles, for example, because I like you know, I'm more of like, for me storytelling is via conversation, you know, via talking, I never really considered myself like someone to explain things through like art or drawing. And so to know that you do that I find fascinating. And then also to be like, what I consider like a data driven storyteller, like you're giving these graphics or like, almost infographics and designs for a business to better tell their story. And so I just think the common trait between both of what you do is storytelling. So can you talk a little bit about that? And, you know, you could talk first about either textile and or, you know, however, but I feel like there's a common thread there. That is like, and I say this in the best way I say this as a compliment. Like, it's like super nerdy and it's awesome. I find it so fascinating. So

Karen Middleton 3:02

tell me about that. Yeah, so full disclosure, not so secret secret fact about me. I am totally a nerd. Like, every single level that you could possibly think of, you know, I love Star Trek. I love Star Wars, you know, into animais history. Like you can think of a nerdy thing. I'm probably into it in some way, shape, or form. I'm my husband, Myra, like, started getting into AI and playing around with that. So like, Yeah, I'm a total nerd. Full disclosure, no shame. And yeah, so interesting. I the storytelling, I think it comes from my love. Oh, really, of human history. The I got my degree in anthropology. But that was influenced by my interrogation training when I was in the army. Because even though yes, I am interrogating people, when I'm trying to extract intelligence and information from them. I'm doing it in a way that they're comfortable telling me what they know. And what they know is their experience. It's their story. Whether or not I agree with it, you know, natural nuance, gender, experience, life, all that stuff, you know, has an impact, but I'm there to listen, the you know, so like, as an interviewer, moderator that I just kind of sit back and let people tell their story. So for me to tell my story is very weird.

Jen Amos 4:22

The tables have turned Garin walls have turned

Karen Middleton 4:25

off turn, that's just kind of fun actually is good for me. And so a love of just history. You know, human history, human development, just, you know, just loving where we've come from overall, but then hearing everybody else's experiences because my experience is different. And for me to understand where somebody's coming from, I have to understand and listen to their story, because nobody has the experiences that I've had. Just like Jen, no one's had experiences you've had, your story is different from mine, but there's commonalities in there. And if you can find those commonalities. That's where you can connect, that's where you can build rapport. And that's where it feels like I might be going on kind of rambling a little bit blabbering as my husband calls it. But hearing the stories, creates connection. And that's what I'm about. I like connecting. I like to connect with others in ways that sometimes they're expected. Sometimes they're unexpected. And that's, to me is the real job.

Jen Amos 5:21

Yeah.

Karen Middleton 5:22

Does that make sense? I could

Jen Amos 5:23

definitely relate. Because, you know, I've been podcasting for five years now, I've easily have produced 600 episodes at this point, collectively, not on just this show. Like I've had like other shows, and I've been contracted in the past to, like, host other people's shows, and I'll have those moments where, right before I'm about to talk to a guest, I think to myself, Wow, we have like nothing in common, you know, like, how am I going to connect with this person. And I find a lot of joy, probably similar to you in just listening, you know, just listening to people's experiences and, and like you I can, I can relate to like, recognizing that my perspective is my own. And to really build a connection, I have to genuinely try to understand where the person is coming from. And I personally like that challenge. Because, you know, and I know, I know, this has a lot to like, you incorporate a lot of this into your work, you know, just trying to find that connection, because I think it's easy to like, let's say look at someone at face value, or look at society at face value, and maybe even the workplace or whatever environment you're in. And you can easily feel alone, you can easily feel like no one understands you, like no one knows where you're coming from, no one will get you. And so it's, it's meaningful for me to engage with you right now. Because I feel like I already relate to your experience of like, I may not have been an interrogator in the army. But I hear what you're saying. And I love I love that as nerdy as you are. And again, that's a compliment that you have this desire for human connection. And the way that you do that is, you know, with textiles and data driven design for your clients. And so anyway, I'm just taking that in, I just find that fascinating. Do you have anything to add to that?

Karen Middleton 7:02

That's pretty much I guess, nail on the head, you know, the way that I kind of approach both of them is slightly different. But you are right at the end of the day, like the core is storytelling, the chorus connection. So with my my textile work, you know, a lot of the work that I currently have that's showing right now, and some of the pieces I'm working on now planning is really come out of COVID. And were inspired by COVID. You know, being isolated, being stuck at home at the time I was working for the government actually at the Smithsonian doesn't told you I was a nerd, right. I love it. I'm here for it. But my husband was stationed at Fort Bragg. So at this point in time during the COVID hit, I was working up here in Maryland and he was down in North Carolina. Fort Bragg has actually changed his name now to like Fort liberty. So whatever the bit big bases down in North Carolina, whatever we branded, it rebranded. I just I think it's fort liberty. I'm not sure though. So I was really really isolated. I was away from my spouse, my best friend, you know, my sister in law I you know, even though I have family in this area, because I'm originally from Maryland, and my family is on Eastern Shore. So they're across the Bay Bridge across the Chesapeake. So they're, it's kind of a pain to get to. kind of far away distance wise. And his family My in laws, they live near DC, the My sister was immunocompromised. And so it was kind of hard because I couldn't lean on them. I couldn't see them. But it was hard to get to see my family on the other side of the bed as a distance. And then Nina happened to social distance. So like I was really, really lonely, really depressed, having a lot of mental health issues at that time. And well, they were more severe, I should say, they the end. So when we were kind of just stuck at home, I wasn't wasn't commuting, I didn't have an hour and a half commute one way so three hours I got back in my day, I was like, What am I going to do want to turn to my artwork and kind of just really starting to experiment and play with not just the work I was creating there, but also kind of reflecting on the feelings I was feeling and like missing that connection. And so I was trying to start looking through old photos and get my family things that I had done with them that were really meaningful in school, you know, so that led to one of my works called Grand Canyon sunset, which is really just based off a memory from family vacation to the Grand Canyon and you know, it's I can't show it to you because it's it's actually hanging up in a gap in a show right now.

Jen Amos 9:34

No big deal. Not to brag, but

Karen Middleton 9:41

it's an Annapolis golden charter if anybody's in Annapolis go see it before it ends February 16 Love it. But so and that was just really thinking about that that work and of itself was really just about thinking where we are kind of what's going on missing family, remembering wonderful times I had with my family and then kind of also being like I I'm so small with everything going on to the reminder. Because we need I don't know if you've ever been to the Grand Canyon, but when you roll up to it the first time, you're just like, oh my god, this thing is massive. You just don't do it justice. And so that work was kind of inspired by that. And then the subsequent work see storm de, which is right here.

Oh, my gosh, I was going to ask you about that. So love that you have it handy.

So this is this, this work just got out of a show. Wow. So that one was really based around, you know, just dealing with the emotions. And you know, it's like, we're going along, things are great. And then COVID happened, everything shut down. It was like this massive storm that nobody expected. It just kind of made me think of the Poco sigh wave was a great wave that were Cassadaga. I didn't pronounce that right. And I apologize. But the great wave by hotkeys like people will know that, and that's kind of like I wanted to kind of capture that feeling. But in Saavik, and in the environment of COVID, because I know, I'm not wasn't the only one feeling that way. Yeah, so that's kind of where my cool team kind of has gone, you know, dealing with those feelings of isolation. And as a military spouse, as a veteran of I was kind of always in a unique position being both a veteran and a military spouse, the because not a lot of military spouses can maybe understand some of the nuances that their service members are dealing with. And so there were times that I would be trying to connect with military spouses, and I either would kind of get stopped, because they find out I was a veteran, or, you know, I couldn't just quite connect with them. So always trying to find that connection was something that is just something that I always look for, in terms of storytelling and in human connection with data. I mean, no qualitative research, I was an interrogator. And I leveraged that into being a moderator and a qualitative researcher. That is what I did to deal with all the time. So it's all about connection. It's all about, you know, understanding human behavior, understanding emotion, all these squishy things that are kind of uncomfortable, it's very much a gray area. It's also why I find it a lot of fun, I find it very interesting. And so for me, the fact that people are willing to sit down in a research study and tell me their story, then my job is to kind of analyze that and say, Okay, what do these this group of people were present? What's this kind of a collective story? Then how do I bring that to life for my stakeholders for you know, the company I'm looking for, for the organization? That's trying to this specific question. So that's kind of like the thread, I guess, in connection, it's, it comes from two different places, ones, like art is a little more internal. And I think my, my data design work is more external.

Yeah. I really like how you humanize data, you know, like you tell a story. And I do appreciate you bringing up the C storm design that you did there, because I was going to ask you about that. And, you know, initially when I was looking you up and checking out your website, I was thinking in my head, like, how do you tell a story with quilting? You know, like, how do you like in my, my initial thought was like, how do you do that. And then when I came across that design, I was like, Oh, that makes sense. It's like, it's like an art. It's a piece of art done via quilting, or, you know, textiles. So I found that, I find that very fascinating. And I really like your approach to bringing life to, like I said, textiles, and also with data, it makes it sound less dry. And it helps me understand the significance of numbers, because I'm not a numbers person. That's my husband. You know, we work in finance, but I do the marketing side, he knows all the nerdy stuff. Like he's, he's a huge nerd compared to me. I'm just like, Well, I think I'm nerdy in my own way. But not when it comes to numbers. Definitely not. I purposely studied journalism, to avoid math, but I had to, I had to take like a statistics class. And I took it twice, because I got a C minus I think the first time and then it said to pass, you had to get a C. So I retook it. I got a C, let's say and everything. And I was like, Okay, that's it. That's all Yeah,

to move on with my life. I feel your pain when it comes to statistics and math. That's why I went the qualitative route instead of quantitative because I was like, I am not the biggest fan of numbers. I can work with them. Yeah, but what's more interesting is again, that human element because numbers tell you what they don't tell you why. And you have to ask the why to kind of, you know, it's almost at multiple levels is how I kind of like to visualize it, like almost like a funnel is a you know, qualitative or quantitative is in spirit Rod, it gives you a lot of reps and can tell you, you know what's happening, but it can't quite get at the why. And that's kind of like that next level falling down this word qualitative kind of comes into play. And it says, okay, you know, we're seeing this behavior happen that, why is that happening? And that's when you go out and find out, okay, here are the social, emotional, economical reasons that are, you know, why people are making the decision or acting the way that they are the that our quantitative or numerical data is telling us. So it's an interesting relationship, but I am with you on failing stats. Okay, good. I've taken a couple stats classes, and they were, well, you know, C's get degrees, we'll go with that.

Thank you. Amen. To that, amen. To that, I want to learn a little bit more about where the art of storytelling comes from for you. Because clearly, that's the, you know, common thread with both of the work that you do. You know, I think storytelling is the bridge between any human interaction I think, is like telling a good story. So tell us Tell me a little bit where that comes from, for you. Yeah,

I've always kind of been a very artsy creative person, you know, like, especially in the visual arts, and in visual arts, you know, they really are, like, if you're going to create an image, if you're going to create something visual, tell the story behind it. And so, you know, always have a story in mind. And it's a mantra that I remember, you know, growing up, when it came to producing my artwork, being a big fan of anime, like comic books, and hashtag T, Marvel, etc. So we butt heads quite a bit, you know, and, and ye, movie buff, like, seen how people create stories visually, yet, even if it's in a medium, you know, such as a comic books, such as a movie, or something I've always been drawn to, and like, I'm telling her, I read a lot. So words also have power to create those visuals. But as somebody who is more visually inclined, as noted from my studio, you know, how do I take something a little more stagnant and create that story in the viewers mind? So I've always kind of been that way. That's what I really like. And I think, you know, growing up, I worked at my uncle's autoparts store, as like a little sales rep. cashier, and you know, you sell things, what do you do you build rapport, how do you build rapport, you ask questions, you listen to people's story. So kind of just being comfortable talking to folks listening to you know, finding that connection. And then of course, being an interrogator and and getting the story from those folks. And that group of people, but then also, you know, I've always had a love for history. And again, I'm gonna keep coming back to this i I'm about to be really nerdy again, but I love Indiana Jones. I you know, Uncharted is one of my favorite video games like anything that is action adventure mysteries of the universe, human development, like I'm, yes, I'm for it. And that comes out of just being fascinated with human culture and development and how people you know, from different parts of the world, interpret the world around them and how they're telling stories. I remember as a kid, my mom got a book, a picture book for my sister and I that was on different myths, Goddess myths from around the world. And I remember, you know, being familiar with Athena and all the Greek and Roman goddesses. But then I learned about you know, amatory Sue, who is the sun goddess of Japan, the Shinto religion, mine blow, you know, learn about the Orisa, who are, I'm drawing a blank, I'm thinking of the country, but that's not the right place, African tribe,

what's the name? Maybe I can Google it real quick. Or reset, or reset? Let me see,

I think, Aruba Pantheon, so and learn about their gods and goddesses. So learn about all these different cultures and how they interpret the world around them. How they told stories was realism, I really got interested in really fascinated by So hence, I got a degree in anthropology. And so it's something that I've always enjoyed. And I think storytelling is so crucial to how we again, perceive and understand the world. Yeah, so let's see, I think, at the end of the day, it's just been something that I've always really enjoy it because maybe it's just part of like, where and how I grew up, like I grew up in rural America. There's not much on the Eastern Shore, then. So for me, it was always kind of like, what else is out there? I know there's more. Like my parents made sure that my sister and I were exposed to different cultures, we'd go to different cultural festivals. You know, I remember going to Celtic festivals. I remember going to powwows I remember going to Caribbean festivals, it just like, take your pay, like we would go and explore. And that was something that was really important to, especially to my mom, let's be like, there's this whole world out here. Yeah. You know, be curious, be open, see what's there. And like my sister and I, we love to travel, my mom loves to travel. So to be able to travel, I think part of it is understanding that you're in a different culture, and how do I navigate that a little bit as a stranger? But how do I also show appreciation that these people think differently than what I do? Yeah, then, you know, what they create, how they speak, their language, their visual language, you know, cultural dress, all that is so different. And I think it's so fascinating, so interesting to have all of these different interpretations of the world around us.

Yeah, I love that I take you to be an empathetic person, am I reading that, right?

I try to be kind of would probably, like my grandmother, it's just,

I mean, you know, I, I find it so fascinating. Because again, like, going back to the whole nerd theme here, it's like you, you know, so much about like, history, and you're very data driven. And, and yet, you also, you know, and, and, you know, you know, we can credit your parents for this, like you desire to have a deep understanding of people and different cultures. And, you know, to me, it that makes you a well rounded person to like, not only, you know, seek to understand people, but also, you know, I'm sure you can turn on that logical hat or objective pragmatic hat on if you want. And I think it just makes for, like, a great range of a, of a personality and the way that you connect with people so that that's sort of what I'm kind of gathering in hearing you talk and because often, I feel like I tend to come across two types of people, there's, there's a very pragmatic, you know, matter of fact, almost comes off as rude because they're just very assertive. And then, I mean, for sensitive people, they see it as rude, but I understand that it's, they're just very assertive, and then you have like the empath, like the one that's very sensitive and feels her feelings. And so what I sense from you is like, you have a good balance of both. Thank you. ppreciate. Yeah, so in case anyone in case you ever want to brag to people, like yes, I am, like both, whatever that means. It's kind of like being an ambivert. It's like you're both introvert and extroverted. Like you'd have you could have like, a good balance of both, I

was one of those 100% Yeah. No, I

love it. Well, I want to go back to during COVID COVID. By now it's been it's like years behind us. And yet, you I still feel like the aftermath of the the ripple effects of that. And I have found that a lot of people's lives have changed and shifted from that time. And you know, for you, you know, that feeling of isolation, you know, and feeling like you, you know, we had a social distance and, and all that stuff. So I want to go back to that time and talk about how you found quilting as your therapeutic outlet. And then also, I know that you are a graduate of the services SEO program at with the Rosie network. And I'm sure that the Rosen network really helped to shape. You know what you're doing today. So can you tell me about just, you know, starting from that time, to really making what you do official, you know, and turn it into something special.

We'll have this is going to be another secret. not so secret confession. The quilting started a long time before that. So I was in the Army Reserve, and 2014 I deployed Afghanistan, came back, got out and I was married. And my husband at the time was stationed in Tennessee. So I moved up to Tennessee, struggled to find work struggled to connect with the community. Yeah, as I mentioned previously, made a few friends but it was like, I still felt very, very isolated. And I still really, really struggled. You know, I was depressed. My self esteem had tanked because prior to that time, I was in DC, it was working a contracting job with the FBI. And so like I had started my career path. And then it felt like I'd taken a step back early because I wanted to try to erode How is my family and my husband and my relationship with him. And so, at the same time, his he was the only breadwinner. His head was also messed up. So we were actually living below the poverty line. We were economically struggling and then not, you know, food stamps struggling but I definitely had to go to the food pantry a couple of times, and I have an appreciation for Goodwill on for stores that still lives to this day. And so in the midst of trying to find work in the midst of trying to pinch pennies and make $1 I just turned to what are the things that I can do to support the household and I grew up with my mom's sewing watching my mom so and I voted machine prior to this because I wanted to learn how to sew I think it's a good life skill for anybody to have and So I started hemming his uniforms, I started, you know, putting together his dress blues is what we had at the time. And doing all of that also started making more of the household goods. So blankets, pillows, curtains. So we're utilitarian, the learn how to make clothes. I didn't enjoy any of that society. And then in the midst of all this, I'm out in Tennessee, my sister and my mom are here in Maryland. And my sister was actually an army as well. And she's stationed out here. And so they call me up and they're like, Hey, Karen, Jeff, you know, your sister wants this this thing. This duvet cover, because you can't find anything. And you know, I don't have the time. The time to do it. Yeah, halfway done, but don't have time to finish it. What if we ship it out to you or we pay you we finish it? And I said, Sure. I could use the money. Wow. Yeah. So

first, your first client.

So I sent it out to me all the fabric, the pattern and everything. And it was based on a quilt pattern? Well, it was a scrappy quilt pattern. Hasker tribal fair classic. I would later learn some following the pattern in this book, I get to the point where I make the quilt top. And then they're like, Okay, stop there, turn it into a new fe. I was like, but I kept reading the book, because I like to learn. I'm a nerd. We know this.

It's been established.

I am a nerd, I like to learn. And I was really fascinated by the process of quilting. And that kind of got me interested. So I finished the duvet cover, and I said, Hey, do you want the scraps? Do you want the book? Both my mom and my sister were like, No, you can keep them, do whatever. Cool. But a month later, we moved to North Carolina, my husband got PCs to only notice Fort Bragg. And so now we're in North Carolina, same thing struggling to find work, self esteem is kind of low. But I knew my depression was at an all time high. And but I had this new thing. And I get excited about new things. That's why I like to learn, I get bored very quickly. No, I don't have ADD. But I do get bored very quickly. So I was like, Well, what do I do with these scraps. And I like looked at the book, and I was like, I'm gonna make a quilt. And it just kind of took off from there. So the quilt team started as a way for me to kind of process those feelings of isolation. And that I was feeling, you know, not really connecting with the community, the veteran community nor the military spouse community kind of be in this weird in between, and then not being near my family. So I didn't have that community. Like it just, it was just dealing with all that those feelings of low self esteem because I wasn't working income, dealing with this feelings of depression. It was how I just kind of tried to bring something brighter into my life. So do I cry at the drop of a hat? Right? Hey, it's

all good. It's all good. I'm here for it.

And so you know, as time goes on, I kind of start finding myself getting bored with quilting. And at this point in my career, I actually was going had started going to school, for textiles, the master's degree in Textiles is like we're gonna be in North Carolina, I need something that will give me hard skills and the heart of the US textile, it textile industry is in North Carolina. So I'm going to get a degree in textiles. And that's like a guarantee into that industry. We all see how that worked out. But I really fell in love with textiles and just the versatility of them and specifically quilting. And when I was in grad school, I got the opportunity to work for the Smithsonian. So Missouri was like, Yeah, you're taking that moved up to DC. And while I was in the theater, I joined the quilt guild here in Annapolis, the Annapolis Quilt Guild, and kind of that's where I got started introducing introduced to kind of different quilting styles, new techniques, things that I had never even heard of. And that got me interested really in experimentation, like trying different techniques. So I remember in 2019, there was a government shutdown for 30 days, almost 30 days, I think is how long that was. So I was not working for a month. What do you do this. And the it was a challenge quote that was, and like the image that popped in my head is challenged was called Shades of Grey. I did not pick it. And the image that popped in my head was growing up on the water. There's a lot of rivers on the Eastern Shore, don't know if you've ever been to the Eastern Shore, Maryland. I grew up on the water. I grew up playing on rivers. So for me, I remember being on the water. And when it's a lot of gray. I was like, I have no idea how I'm gonna do this. But that's what I'm going to do for this challenge quote. So over time, my quilting went from more traditional to experimental art quilting. Now back to your question. COVID hits. Yeah. And I just, you know, again, dealing with those deep feelings of isolation, there's deep feelings of depression, low self esteem, things I still struggled with to this day. That's just kind of like where it exploded where I just really just leaned into the art Making of my quilting and the art quilting. So that was a whole long spiel.

Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, we can do I want to just like pause real quick and, you know, give you like a virtual hug, you know, and I just want to thank you for, for sharing that. And although I did not get into quilting, actually, I had really struggled with depression and bouts of loneliness around 2019. And my outlet, actually, was podcasting. All this started because of podcasting. Because, you know, at that time, my husband and I were moving around a lot. And I had this belief in my head, I was like, Well, you know, if I'm not gonna stay in one place long enough, I might as well like build an online community. And what better way to bond with people than like podcasting. And I mean, there's a whole backstory to it, but basically, I felt I fell upon podcasting. And that had been, you know, my way of finding connection and working through all of that. And then, you know, fortunately, I set up my show before COVID hit, because once COVID hit, I went hard with podcasts, I went all in, like, it was crazy. Like I now you know, five years later, I'm learning to like, pace myself and like, do things, you know, like, do things in phases, not do things at once, like all at once, and I've come a long way. But I say all this because I can relate to your story in that sense of like, you know, you're in a very dark place. And, you know, somehow, some way, like the light at the end of the tunnel happened to be quoting for you. And I just, you know, I appreciate you sharing that story. And like, we're, where it comes from. And look at the beautiful work you're doing today. And like the beautiful life you have today, and your happy place here, your studio. So I just wanted to take a moment to pause and like, observe that and, you know, give you that give you the virtual hug for your journey.

We appreciate that. Thank you so much. Yeah, there was a second half of that question. And I totally forgot about and I'm sorry, I

forgot it too. So I forgot it also. So I think so I think the question I what I was getting to is, so you've been you've been doing this for a while and and this was modeled to you by your family growing up, you know, quilting, which, you know, by the way I was, I was reading on your website that you went to the mid atlantic quilt Festival in 2023. And you immediately made this observation that you were like the youngest person there. And so I just I love that you you've taken on something that tip, you know, typically speaking would be done by elders and like grandma's and stuff. Like, it reminds me of like, I actually not that I'm like, as skilled as you but my godmother when I was in fourth grade, like taught me like knitting and crocheting, because and I remember it was like, like, knitting was like my fidget toy growing up. Like when I felt nervous. I would like make scarves and stuff. And I remember I wouldn't remember in high school, I would straight up bring like a ball of yarn. And in classes, I've just been like, if the teachers didn't say anything, I'm just like, knitting. And, and I just remember like, yeah, it was just, it was just like, a way for me to like relieve stress. But also, like, I felt like, I felt like people would always make fun of me, because, like, I would, I would always wear like big glasses like this. And then I would tie my hair in a bun. So I looked like like a miniature Grandma, you know, like just knitting in class, big glasses. You know, all that. So anyway, I just thought it was kind of funny how you made that observation. Also, you're like, I'm like the youngest one here. But anyway, I just wanted to add that, but what I was getting to now in hearing your story is how did that lead you to the Rose network and services SEO program?

Yeah. So I actually officially started my business, really just as a sole proprietorship, or studio back in 2021. Yeah, I was like I have the time. I'm just going to do it. And I'd also a neighbor who he was a musician. So we talked art all the time, he wanted to purchase one of my works from high school, I had it hanging on the wall. He's like, I love it. It was an old acrylic painting. I did have jugs and fabric that I'm starting to see a pattern here. And so I was like, well, if I'm gonna sell this to you, I need it to be legit. Like, this is a late Action List to buy my work. Nobody's ever bought my work before. But he did the and so I was like, Well, if it happens again, and I'm making these quilts, and these are quilts, I'm legitimate, and then whatever, in terms of the Rosie network. So you know, it's interesting because we talked a lot about quilting, but with the Rosie network and serviced SEO, I focused on the data design. So I guess I gotta backtrack a little bit more. So

you're so versatile. Yeah,

so my interest in graphic design and, you know, data visualization actually started at the Smithsonian. There was a, you know, being just a visual person being a studio artist. When my boss SCADA pulled us together in a group meeting a team meeting, she said, Hey, we need to update our reports make them more modern. And at the time, they were very, very academic. Nobody reads academic reports anymore when they're trying to make decisions. So she's like, we need to update and modernize. She's like, there's this class. It's a week long Atlanta, and it's all about data visualization. Who wants to go, I was the only person who was like, raise my hand, I'm like, really like, I don't know what data visualization is. But it has the word visual, and I'm like, pretty pictures. Yeah, love it. Alright, I guess I'm going. And so I spent a week in Atlanta, at this, this seminar, learning about data visualization, and kind of what it entailed. It was kind of, it's always been around, but I think it was just kind of starting to get on the radar for the government. And when people were really starting to talk about a lot, and especially because we're starting to hear big data, how do you handle that AI was on the horizon. So like, and this is in 2018. So I when I thought this is really cool. Also, I know how to do a lot of this already. Because this behind me, because of just being a visual artist. All I don't only think I don't know, is how to use the programs. But I know the principles, I understand the principles already just an artist my entire life. So kind of started, I had free rein from my boss at the time to kind of start playing with it a little bit. So to Slipspace for change. So what I was able to do a smaller project where they literally said the client literally said, I don't want a full report. Like I want a one pager, okay, you're not fitting qualitative data on a one pager unless you make it visual, just because of the amount sheer amount of volume of information you collect. Yeah, so did that project. It was actually for natural history museum, the institution, Smithsonian Institute, museum natural history. And it was about maps and wayfinding. In the museum, they were thinking about updating the handheld maps that they would give to visitors, and just basically wanted this a quick, yes, this is a good idea we have spent funding, what I found in that project was that visitors don't really use the handheld maps, they rely on the wall maps, those wall maps have not been updated in like 10 years. This is very chief important key finding, do the report, putting in this one pager, send it off. Now, with a lot of research, you don't often find out what the result was or the actions taken. But about six months later, I'm doing another project in the Natural History Museum. And I happen to glance up and I'm like, wait a minute, those maps are different on the wall. Yeah, that's when it kind of clicked in my brain. I was like, I didn't use any quantitative. This was all qualitative project that I just redid these visuals for in PowerPoint. So it was beautiful that sarcasm was like Is it was it not born skills have increased tremendously since then, as have my Adobe Creative Cloud Suite with Illustrator. But what it told me was like the key finding the message in this one pager got through, and I've only seen data visualization in terms of quantitative data. So dashboards, Tableau, you know, maps, graphs, charts, those are things where he's doing data visualization, that's what a lot of people go to. But in this case, it was just qualitative. And the images that I created off more than one page to get that information across inspired action, it engaged the museum director to say, Okay, we're going to allocate funding to update our wall maps that we hadn't planned to, it's so much the entire direction that they were going to go with that particular funding the end. So I kind of carried that with me in the back of my brain COVID Hit had time on my hands. And I was like, You know what, I'm going to actually learn how to do actual graphic design. So my library had partnered with Udemy, online platform, to and to do learn business skills and graphic design was one of those got a couple certifications in that way art, how to use Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, all of those. At the time, I was working at the Department of Commerce remote, didn't have much opportunity to really get creative visually. And so I stumbled across a job posting that was in market research, looking for somebody who not only had a qualitative moderation research background, but also had the design background. So I had so as I applied I was hired like two weeks later by my boss and it was fully remote so I was like, I'm getting the hell out of DC now. Still, COVID But I was staying in DC because I was like, how know when it's going to end But their guests Yeah. So I left DC, I went back down to North Carolina to be with my husband. And you know, family is really important to me. So I was like, I just I wanted to be with him. I was tired of being separated. Yeah. And so I worked at this market research company, until August, this past August, August 2003. So I started June 2021. And I worked there until August 2023, when the company was bought out downsized, and got rid of their entire qualitative research team. Wow. Yeah. So yeah, it, you know, story, everyone, I think, has had at least one time in their career probably. And so that's all to say, I was doing a lot of this work for this company, I was doing a lot of visuals, I was playing both the researcher and the designer role, to the point where our quantitative team had come to me a week before I got laid off, it was like, Hey, you do great reports, we see what you're putting out, you know, with the quality of team, we need your knowledge, let us pick your brain in terms of visual design. This is a week later. So lovely. Yeah. So I'm sitting there, certainly network on LinkedIn, going to these different business networking events. And it dawned on me, I was kind of reflecting back over my career, what I really loved and what really got me jazzed and excited, as much as I love doing moderation and qualitative research, that design, and being able to make that impactful and kind of tell the story beyond bullet points are really, really loved to do. That's what got me super excited. Like, you know, we'd be doing the analysis, and I'd be like, sitting there drawing, like images and things and like flowcharts and stuff, and then putting it up on a power point presentation. people be like, what the Where'd that come from? And so, I was like, Well, what am I going to do? Because I don't have, as of right now, I only have a few certifications in graphic design. I don't have a formal degree. So no one's gonna hire me as a graphic designer, although I'm working to fix that I've applied for some MFA programs. So wish me luck. Yeah. And, yeah, I was like, that's what I love to do. But no one's gonna hire me for data visualization. Because I don't have experience doing that in terms of quantitative like, I kind of know how to use Tableau. I'm taking classes to improve it. But it's not my area of expertise. My area of expertise is qualitative. So I'm like reflecting back and I'm talking to a former coworker. And she's like, Karen, like what made you really great at your job. And like, one of the reasons I loved working with you is because you know, design, she's like, I can moderate all day, like, I don't know how to make my reports look nice. The idea like, I love working with you, because I knew that we could tag team and it was so much less stress, because you knew how you could take the information that we were analyzing, and make it interesting, make it impactful. She's like, I've never had clients engage. Yeah, with, you know, reports, the way that they did when you did in the design, the sounds like I was just kind of like, Oh, that was a lightbulb moment. So I started reflecting more and more. That's what you do. When you're laid off, you have time on your hands. Realize that that compliment. And that statement. I've heard many, many times over the course of my career doing research, the that qualitative researchers, they're not necessarily trained in visual design. And we live in a world where everybody wants it to be visual make it easy for me to understand at a glance, exactly. Here, researchers are trained, we don't have necessarily that those frameworks in our brain. And so people are looking for that researchers are looking for that. Well, I'm a bit of a weird unicorn, because I'm a visual artist. Yeah. And graphic design, have done research.

It's fascinating. Yeah,

yeah. And so when I was thinking, Okay, well, I guess, you know, nobody was hiring either. Right now, the market is really not hiring, it's fairly difficult to find a job. And I was like, I don't know if I want to work for somebody else. Because I've always been really felt like kind of tampered down on being able to be creative and try new things. So I was like, Well, I have Kate Middleton design studios, art studio. And I thought, well, what if I just kind of pivot that? Yeah, my husband and I are now in a place where, you know, our finances would allow me to take the risk and try being an entrepreneur. It's, I have entrepreneurs and my family, uncle, my dad. Yeah, we're so it's like, it's something I had always thought about and looked at, but it was never a place to do it. And my husband was like, Well, now you are. Yeah, yeah. So pivoted, continue with the art studio because that's who I am, you know, at my core, is an artist and just kind of took a bit of that and said, Alright, I'm going to try this because I do see a niche and a need in this industry. The more qualitative data design, not data visualization, very different. And so, as I was trying to figure out how do I market this, how do I had some of the basic understanding of business having started Mar studios, like I knew how to file, you know, the further business license and kind of starting to get it set up, put together website, all that stuff. What I needed was focus. How do I, because I found myself starting to kind of spiral because I'm like, I need money and get a job started. Yeah, yes, I gotta find clients. I've done. It's just it's just hamster wheel. Yeah,

it's like you have like, all this potential. And you're like, figuring out how to hone it in, you know, to be marketable.

Yeah. And I was like, do I, you know, start to offer more than, like, the broader databases and just kind of flub it till I make it. But I'm gonna do that. And so it's so funny, because I remember discovering and hearing about Rosie network on 2016 ish, I think I'd met a few spouse entrepreneurs who had mentioned it. And it was so funny, because I just like, totally put it on my mind with everything going on. And maybe about two, three weeks after I'd been laid off and decided, Okay, I'm going to we looked at our finances said, this is something feasible, inhibit my business a little bit and offer this weird niche service. And then it like popped up like an ad or something popped up on our maybe a post on LinkedIn. And I was like, wow, neither what? Yeah, I was like, You know what, I am not a religious person at all. But I listened or when the universe is aligning, and it's sending me messages. So

boom, yeah. The algorithm gods were like, Let's push the Rosie network to Carol's public feed.

Something aligned. And, you know, it's so funny because I applied and I didn't hear back for a while. And I'm like, Yeah, okay, whatever I didn't get in, I'll figure it out. And then I remember getting a meeting invite for it from Kiani Washington who was on your podcast, yeah, things in. And so she and I had a conversation like, like admissions, sort of conversation, wonderful person. Very sweet, very funny. And then next thing I know, I'm starting to cohort. Love it. So that's kind of what Rosie did. And service T CRO really helped me get out of that tailspin. And that initial panic, as well as kind of forced me to be like, learn to be patient. It said, focus the business, but like Be patient, like, it's going to take time, you literally just started this piece. Yeah. And at the same time, you know, while I'm focusing and rosy on the data design, I'm applying those to my art craft as my art studio. Because when you're an artist, you're an entrepreneur. Yeah. So that's kind of the connection with those. And I'm very pleased to say that I'm going to be teaching in person for the first time cool dean at our community college this summer. So wow, yeah,

first of all, you better yay.

Yeah. So you know, it kind of in a nutshell, I use, you know, Rosie, I entered Rosie with the intent of getting data design off up off the ground there. And it what it allowed me to do was not only focus and say, Actually, your initial gut instinct of just qualitative was right. Market research, you think of a market researcher, I would have done that first. No, they forced me to do that. And I was like, Yeah, okay, so let me focus and then also gave me tools that I don't think I would have thought about, or considered if had, I tried to do this on my own. So mentor, still talk to my mentors to this day, having a cohort. In my case, it was all women, who are also in different parts of areas, starting their business was really helpful talking to them, seeing where they are, and kind of like, I'm feeling overwhelmed. Me too. Or, like, if I started to get on that, you know, that hamster wheel and start spiraling? Or if one of them did, we can, you know, reach out say, hey, great, okay. You're good, you know, celebrating the wins the small gains, insurance, you know, taxation without taxation insurance, I didn't know about, you know, getting my going, taking my business and changing the legal entity structure. So those were all things that I learned about while I was at Rosi, and I've been able to also apply to the quill team. Yeah, in a nutshell, it was really a I wasn't sure at first, but I think at the end of the day, like looking back, I'm like that was worthwhile. And that's made me feel more confident in both lines of business. Yeah,

I really love how the rose network and service SEO program like fed into your qualitative research business and you were able to, you know, kind of call paste what you learned into your quilting business? And I think that's great. You know, I've definitely heard people who start services co program with one business and they come out with a completely different business, or Yeah, or they like start with like one and I guess a business partner fell out. And now that business didn't exist, but the Rosi network said, hey, just just stick it out and see if you discover something and they create a whole new business they weren't even expecting. So I just think that's, you know, that's awesome. And, you know, to get the mentorship to get the support to be reminded that you're not alone. I think that I think that you've come a long way from feeling so isolated, like, like coming from such a very dark place, to you know, like you said, you still talk to your mentors till this day, and you've made some friends and in the cohort, and it just seems like your life is a complete 180 from you know, those dark times and how you turn to quilting as like an outlet. You know, today, it's like, you have this business, and you have this community. And I just, you know, I hope that you've taken some time to acknowledge that and recognize how far you've come. And then it seems to me that you're in a better place now. Am I reading that right?

Yes, I definitely am. It's so funny, because I've never been fired from a job before the job and I know layoff is not technically been fired, but it sure feels like it. Yeah, when you that notification pops up and you're like this person and they got like a big high title and head of HR is there and you're like, Whoo 15 Lena, what's going on? Yeah. Well, thank you for working for the company. Today's your last day we went.

Here's your last paycheck. Oh my gosh, yeah, that's

what a layoff is like a you know, that really, again, Depression hit on yourself. Like, yeah, the old my self esteem. But at the same time, it was, you know, almost a blessing in disguise. Because if this had been even three, four years ago, I probably being job hunting and still not finding a job and be in a really terrible place mentally and emotionally. Yeah. But you know, that happened. And I was able to really focus on the things that do bring me joy, to quote Marie Kondo, and that is quilting, yeah, and creating my art that is, you know, stepping into the role of instructor, which is something that I kind of entertained, but I never had the time, the hair. And so being able to do that, I'm so excited about that, you know, and creating workshops, and all those sorts of things. But then also, being able to say, Here's my other passion, which is qualitative design, quality of storytelling is realizing that there is a community that's kind of been left behind when it comes to data visualization, and design. And that is qualitative research. It's kind of been left behind. Yeah, because it's it's not numbers. It's it's swishy. It's emotions, behavior, things I love and goes into, yeah, that I get an idea of storytelling, like how do you get that point across those those stories. And so being able to step into that role and say, I have these skills, this weird mishmash of research and design and knowing that there are fellow researchers who are looking for that support, they're looking for that knowledge, and then kind of step into this instructor role. And say, let me guide you let me help you figure this out. I find that to be very rewarding, which is funny, because I never thought I'd be a teacher. I was like, I don't want to be a teacher. I do think kids that I'm interested in, but here I am. 24 And I'm like, we're looking at stepping into that role of the guide the role of the teacher and the instructor and, and it's different, and I think it's super exciting. And hopefully you don't fall flat on my face.

Well, I think in this life of kind of building as you go, I have Montra I go by as so far so good. It's like, so far, so far, so good. You know, like things be things seem to be working out. So far. So far, so good. That's kind of my mantra, you know, like, so I think that's amazing. And I think it's beautiful that you found yourself in this life. Like you said, you never knew you would be a teacher. And although we may not know what the future brings, the last question I want to ask you is what is sustaining what you have right now look like like, and you know, when it comes to business, like obviously, finances are always a topic of discussion and staying afloat. So what does that look like for you? Yeah,

well, I'm lucky enough that my overhead is incredibly low. I have a studio in my home. These fabrics are about 10 years worth of collections from just scrap from other quilters, nice snow, like the average quilter is 65 plus years old. So they get very excited when a 33 year old shows up and is like I love this and then you know, they'll pass away and then all of a sudden you're just given a whole bunch of their fabric. Wow, that's the color what With the whole collection with this and because I, you know, want to use up my stash this is what we call stash, you know, I really try to focus on using the fabrics that I have and reusing things like my husband tore a pair of his pants, cut them up and use them in a quilt. So yeah, ability is something that I do kind of incorporate and try to reuse, reduce recycle as much as possible. So my overhead there is very, very low in terms of the quilting, and just it just as a hobby in a lot of things. Yeah, yeah. And then, of course, you know, my data design, it's all digital, it's all done. So I'm lucky got it in terms of finances, I don't need a whole lot to bring, which is really a nice stress reliever. But in terms of long term, honestly, for my data design, it's really building the client list and getting my name out there. You know, I'm working on writing more blog posts, I'm working on, you know, the social media campaign, I've got a couple of workshops, like many workshops and videos in mind that I'm hoping to get out, you know, by the end of the year, so kind of taking on more of that role, and just sharing the knowledge that I have, and the networking that would lead to, you know, yeah, no frequent pride projects. In terms of my quilting, obviously, I want to continue to show my work, I would love to, you know, in the next couple of years, because quilting is labor intensive, isn't able to do solo shows, and, you know, maybe get into a couple galleries, more galleries are starting to recognize five art. So I think that's also super exciting. And then, of course, you know, continue to teach, and I'm teaching a workshop on the 28th first workshop ever.

Wow, so many firsts for you first podcast show, first client, first teaching gig is awesome. There'll be year there's a theme here, oh, my goodness, it's the year of the first.

And I'm just I'm rolling with it. Like I said, I love doing new things. So I've never done it before. It's new, let's do it. And so yeah, with that, it would be you know, if the workshop goes well, doing more of those in person, maybe partnering with some of the Community studios that are looking to expand their fiber arts program into kind of the quilting realm. I mentioned. You know, I'm, I'm going to be teaching at Montgomery Community College here in the DC area, the star. And so if that, you know, works out and the class, you know, people are really interested and they will enjoy the class, then I have the opportunity to continue contracting with the community college and building out their quilting program from the ground up. And I think that's really super exciting. So I'm hoping that goes, well. Yeah, I can do that. Because quilting. Sorry, not to cry at the drop of a hat. Thanks, mom. That's what I call my grandma, Mama. Oh, yeah, quilting was a form of escape for me. And that's where it started, that it became art. And then I got curious, how are other people doing this? How are the people interpreting the sport? Because we think of it, it's very Eurocentric, but like, there are cultures from around the world who do quilting, and they do it differently. And like, How can I honor and share all of quilting, and just really get that out to folks and get especially younger folks interested in it, because, you know, Grandma hobby, I know, I'm secretly your grandma, okay,

here an old soul.

But it's just, it's very warm and comforting. And I want to share that with others. So yeah, and it goes. And the same thing, it's similar with the data design, you know, in addition to having the client base and and more the business focus 10 years down the road, maybe when I'm dead. I would love to see qualitative data, qualitative research programs, in our social science programs, start incorporating design principles, visual design, and really start helping researchers to develop a framework, I'm asking for them to become designers. That's a whole different set. But you have a visual framework that can help elevate and share that information. So it inspires action, it engages your stakeholders, you know, I take I'm taking a lot of quantitative classes right now. I'm gonna learn I've time on my hands. And they all have data visualization like unit will take, in my experience, we don't have that for qualitative. And I would love to see that kind of change happened with the industry. So I have lofty ambitions. Yeah, yeah. I've been I'm passionate about and I want to share that with others. Wow.

Well, you have so many opportunities right now. And I just, you know, want to applaud you for that. And yeah, I, you know, I want to applaud you for getting out of that time of isolation and depression or working through that. And you've obviously come a long way since then. So I just want to thank you, Karen, for sharing your story. And I thought I would take a minute and kind of tap into the former interrogator and I just want to be thorough and make sure I've got asked everything I needed to ask, is there anything else that you feel like I should be asking you that I haven't asked you yet before we wrap up?

Um, no, I kind of went into this, you know, just open minded and you know, just said like, you know, we're, like you said, it's conversational. We're gonna have a conversation. And yeah, it's the share what I've got. And hopefully it's a value to folks, and they find it a value. So yeah, yeah, yeah, interrogation is a little more like technical. In terms of like, quit asking questions. Yeah. And like how you ask questions, but in terms of like, just, if you missed anything for me, I don't think so. I think we covered it all. Cool.

I'm glad to hear that. I am curious to know, being a former interrogator, like did you use to have like a typical opening question, or, you know, like a typical opening approach to talking to people? I'm just kind of curious to know, as like, you know, I always want to not that being a podcaster is the same as being an interrogator. But I like learning in case it's something I can apply in my work. Yeah,

I'm not like a set style so much. Yeah. When I was doing qualitative research, you know, we'd have to give like the legalese Jarvan. So like, the open air was like being recorded. It's only, you know, everything will be anonymized that it's like, there's a whole Yeah, yeah. But my favorite opener, you know, was always just kind of when I was doing research was just, you know, tell me your name, where you're from, what do you do for a living? And, you know, do you have any pets or special interests? Yeah. And it's, like, learning about who that person is, before we get into the nitty gritty of like, the research and like, why we're here. They know why they're here. But it's like, I want to know who you are kind of as a person. Yeah. Then and later on, you know, as we're going through, we have a good rapport and it's a very comfortable, interesting, fun conversation. like kind of like what we just had here. So yeah, well, good. I

like that. Do you have any pets?

No, I have two cats and a dog. So they're, it's their dinner time. So they're, they're getting dinner. Pets are gone. My dog he's a boxer mix. Oh, and then I have a he's about nine or 10. And I have a 14 year old fluffy, orange ginger cat, whose name is Baba. Love it. He literally embodies the essence of a Baba. We also just recently got in the past year, a little Toriko. She sent us a tour to show our Calico tautoko Yeah, because she's got white on just like her belly, though. Can't decide which one she is. She's technically Calico or tortoise, tortoise shell. So we'll call her Toriko. And her name is Daisy. And she is a little over. I think she's almost two years old now. And drives the boys wild. So she runs the house. So yeah, those are those are my babies. Love it.

Love it. Yes. Yeah, we have for babies as well. And yeah, no, that's really cool to know. Well, Karen, what a conversation. I'm very moved and inspired by your story. I just love hearing what got you through that dark time. And you have a lot of light in your life now from what I'm hearing. So I just want to say kudos to you. And I really want to thank you for being on the show. So and I feel like I've covered all my bases. There's nothing else that you need me to ask you. So I think we're good to go. So thank you again, Karen, for joining us on hold down the fort.

Thank you for having me. This was really fun. And I appreciate you inviting me to be here. Thank you so much. Yes,

thank you so much.