Shownotes
There are The Rules, Pick Up Strategies and all self-proclaimed experts claiming they have the secret to dating success.
But is success getting in a relationship that's wrong for you?
We discuss the topic and as always range all over the areas of dating, relationships sharing perspectives and experiences.
Transcript
So I'm thinking if we break into breakout rooms based on the cooking, I can't get through. Now, last week, last week's version was treat them mean to keep them keen.
So wondering we're in agreement. I don't think they necessarily agreed with. With the principle, but believe it happens and the other room was so opposed to that. So.
I was hoping by by being in two sort of camps, we might develop the argument more and have a bit more of a debate to tease out all the issues. So does anyone want to start and open up the debate? Gulfstar. And we sort of discussed that it does work, it does happen, it does work for people and we don't necessarily think it's that or at least I can talk for myself. I don't see it as being it's not the only way that works.
And we don't think it's anything that's going to result in a quality, authentic, long lasting relationship. Think, did you want to say more sessions now, so we're finished and I'm just going to I'm just komu everyone. And then if you want to talk, just talk. Just we cut out the background noise, so just admit yourself to talk. So, Ben, are you.
Yeah. I think what came up for us. Well I speak for myself from what I picked up on the theme of availability and perhaps sort of not showing that you're too available in the early stages of. Courtship, for want of a better phrase, might create a sense of failure or attraction. That's my theory. I mean, it's not it's you know, it's kind of sort of bordering on veer into dishonesty, manipulation at its most extreme. But I think everyone does does do it to a degree, really, whether it's treating someone mean or not, you know, discuss which we're doing.
But that's that's what those are my thoughts anyway. That's what I got from our discussion group. And if anyone else wants to chime in and add to that or disagree.
Yeah, I was saying that if you come across as too keen, it can actually pay off a woman. But that doesn't mean you have to. But if you come across, I don't know if your tooth is yardstick, she can think, I don't know, you're too easily available or I don't know what the logic is. But so I think there's some truth in what you just said, assuming that's what you meant. Yes, but at the same time, I find it hard because as a man, I think there's still a lot of women's minds, the sort of expectation of the man.
It's my job to kind of initiate and lead and show interest and balance right early. Yeah, I think so. So I think there is I think you have to separate the two, really there's like the person and then there's the like the social mask, the social view of the person. And being that we're social animals, there is and we're pack animals, there is kind of like a status. And if. If you to it's not that I don't think it's necessarily the fact that you're too quick to respond, I think it's the fact that it appears that you've got nothing better to do.
And it seems like you have low social value because you're not really it looks like you're. Always dependent and needy on that person, whereas if you're authentically doing your own thing and you're busy, sometimes you're not going to be able to reply. So is it do you think it's something to do with that social value as opposed to. As a strategy. It does the strategy work because it increases your social value? I'm not sure it does. I think it's just if people are overenthusiastic, it just feels too fast more than anything else.
Or at least I can only say that from my perspective anyway, which then creates the pressure.
And you feel like they're going too fast and you feel like you then have to reciprocate.
And I lose myself. If I had to go at that pace and lose my own grounding and it all got a bit like you have to explain it better than that, it almost feels like.
If I was to reciprocate the speed of the overenthusiastic, it would it would just I don't know how to explain it. I would lose a sense of reality and a sense of grounding in that. As in it's kind artificially fast us. You feel smothered, I suppose. As well. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of we lose everything else going on in my world and I would be yeah.
And also you start wondering what is the is that an affirmative? As well, but. I think when we talk about this sort of and I think was it Ben, that said that the manipulation basically, that's what it comes down to. Ultimately, it's it's not going to work. It's not going to be a long lasting thing. I think this will Sasha will sing as well and. It's not so much I think the whole point comes down to authenticity.
If you are not yourself, so if if you are, for example, the desperate person, you've got nobody and you cling to one person and smother them, that's going to come across the way it is. And it's going to put the person rightly so, because you're almost like drowning them, then you need to kind of get a grip on your own self. You need to sort your own issues out first because you need to treat the other person with some respect, give them a bit of space and all the rest of it.
The desperation comes across. If, on the other hand, you, I suppose, used the tactic and try to be as if, you know, I haven't got time today, I want to respond to you on purpose so that I can make it look like I you know, I'm so busy I haven't got time for you. But actually, I have. I'm just trying to respond. But I'm just there is manipulation game that is still not being true.
And after a while, people will figure you out for who you are. And then and then where are you then? Basically nothing, because they'll just walk away. Rightly so. So I think if anybody feels that they have to have somebody they can't be without someone and they're going to end up smothering them, then they perhaps need to look inwardly and see how they can fix that first. We'll need somebody at some point, you've got a defined time, I can you define rushing in because some some people say rushing in is a text message every 30 seconds.
Another people you get a text from every three days. How can you fall in love with someone with a text message? Every. But then again, the text messages all day at work can be smoldering in and over the top. It's a debate that there's no there's no answer to it. It could go on for years. The debate like this.
Well, I think the first thing to recognize with that, I will say anyway, is that we are not dealing with a mathematical formula. You're dealing with human beings. Yeah. And every person will be different. And in any case, that person will change over time as well. You'll notice. So you're going to have to learn to read the signals from the other person. If if you kind of go right, first I do this, then I do that, then I do that, then I get the result.
People are like they may be having a bad day. They may be having a fantastic day. So on the fantastic day, you get lots of responses that are joyful on the part that you get zero responses. They say to you, sort of leave me alone. I've got things to you to kind of compensate for that a little bit. You know, I mean, I talk to my friends and sometimes we talk a long time. Sometimes I'll send the wrong message and she might not get back to me for two days.
And all I will think is, oh, she must be really busy. And that's it. You know, I won't I won't be pestering her sometimes. And sometimes she does the opposite back. She brings me a few times and says, I feel like I'm stalking you now. So, you know, if you're busy, just let me know or something. And I was under attack saying, I'm really, really busy at the moment. Sorry, I'll call you later on this evening or something.
And it's that sort of sort of relationship, but. I suppose what I'm saying is even with people, you know, sometimes you may not get a response all the time, even though I've known this woman for a long time and we're just just friends, nothing else. There are times when we don't talk to each other for a long time because we're just very busy. So I suppose bottom line is that there isn't a formula that you can use.
You just have to learn what the other person is about. You just have that this. I suppose in some ways that's the scary part, but it's also the fun part, you are finding out about the other person. If you're interested in the other person, in some to some degree, you're going to find out what they're like. To be fair, I think it's a lot different speaking about a friend than it is a potential lover because there's just not the same dynamics and being involved it, although I do appreciate what you say.
I yeah, I don't know, I, I'm not so sure I agree with that, to be honest with you.
Well, yeah, because you're not you know, you're not trying to get your friend into a bad idea. You're not trying to have a romantic thing with your friend.
So it's so passionate is absolutely right.
And you know what? One thing I discovered after my marriage is that first thing not to do is never to try and get into bed anyway, especially because you don't know.
I don't really know what I mean, because obviously the subject tonight is about seating them and keeping them keen, isn't it? And I think we're talking about from a romance issue, if we can use that word relationship.
Absolutely. Yes, even in even in Korea, even in a romantic setting, I'd still agree with our being being not being this sort of authentic way to go about things.
Exactly. What I'm saying is that I'm sorry if I can just finish and then I'll let you guys go. I think personally, the way to the romantic romantic bit is the not not the ultimate goal is quite rightly the opposite. That's kind of the start of a relationship. But if you want to get to that level, you have to go through the friendship side first. I recommend, because you have to know the person you're looking because how can you feel romance for somebody who you do not really understand and know, because you are going to base it on the physical attributes which after a while will mean nothing because you got used to those physical attributes as well.
So what's going on? I come in after this. But I finished, so thanks. Well, I think these kind of dynamics can come up with friendships as well. I think whenever you've got, like expectations and you've got a sort of social contract where two people say, OK, well, this is what I expect of you. And I think like you've talked about this a lot and I really agree with you where things aren't verbalized, but people have expectations without being a romantic or a friendship relationship.
That's where one, you know, relationships of any sort can get into difficulty. I think, like if a friend thinks, oh, well, that person should get back to me by two days or so, I think, you know, it's just any relationship, really. That's my opinion.
So and I'd like to go back to Sasha's point, though, where she's talking about having two different speeds, so to speak. If I'm getting her right and one party is not moving fast, can't move at the speed of the other one. The other one is overwhelming in terms of demands or expectations. And I think that type of on balance, where you feel as though you have lost your self-control, you are to control what's coming from the other side is not so much your problem with you, but the other person may be.
They have been through many, many things in their past where they feel that if they don't go in all they're all in, that they will lose out. And how does one bridge that gap to create understanding with the other party that. No, my speed is you're making me uncomfortable at the rate at which you're going. But I do like you. But can we? Because some of the times what you are doing is that you're busy. As Errol said, you have other commitments.
You have a pattern in your life, that and other commitments that you can't just disband your life because somebody is coming all in and wanting you to be available. The answer and text messages all the time, you know, just on the spur of the moment, all the time.
We have commitments. We need to have a pattern. If your behavior can coincide with my my pattern, my life pattern, then maybe we can give it a go and you don't. It's not that you need to think that I'm doing other things. I don't want to talk to you or I'm seeing somebody else or all those things that create mistrust.
So how do you from the very beginning, start to establish those basic foundation pillars, so what you say and at that point I wouldn't know that I like them or not because I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, but I haven't got to know them enough to know that I like them enough to continue, if that makes sense. Yeah, it's just very it's just very difficult from the are from the star.
Yeah. I think that's I think that's the basic compatibility issue isn't it. It's like the right of I think everyone I think there needs to be, as John said, there needs to be some momentum because otherwise it's just going to die. But it needs to be, whereas some people might be quite insecure, reattach the middle validation and need a lot of attention. Someone and it can be a difference. It can be a problem between someone who's got children and someone who doesn't have children and maybe doesn't have much else responsibility in their life.
And so they're looking for a lot of attention where someone else is very busy and full life. And I think that's that's one of the basic issues of compatibility. Like the...