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The Great Hoax: How Online Detectives Unraveled Russiagate with Hans Mahncke
7th September 2025 • Voice over Work - An Audiobook Sampler • Russell Newton
00:00:00 00:47:01

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Hans:

it was a very unique effort, I think in, in, in history really, where a

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whole bunch of random people online got

together and debunked this entire hoax.

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there's hundreds and hundreds

of new pages of stuff which.

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Absolutely unambiguously shows that US

government people, high level officials,

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including the FBI director and the CIA

director were involved in this plot, in,

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in advancing this plot against Trump.

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I couldn't believe it.

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I simply could not believe.

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That's something so obviously false,

so totally laughable, had become this

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ginormous thing, which kind of completely

consumed the presidency and unfortunately

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Russell Newton: Yep.

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Hans: diplomacy and foreign

relations, and it really derailed

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the country in a horrible way.

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Russell Newton: Hello listeners

and welcome back to Voiceover

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Work and Audiobook Sampler.

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Where do you listen today?

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I'm excited and to be honest, a

little bit nervous to have with

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this, uh, author Hans Manka, who has,

uh, written the book, swift Boating

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America exposing the Russiagate Fraud

from the Steele Dossier to the FBI's

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Crossfire Hurricane Investigation.

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a fantastic book.

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Just released, within the last

few months, the audio book just

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released within the last week or so.

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As I look at the dates there,

Hans, you're more than an author.

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why don't you take a few minutes,

introduce yourself, to the listeners, and

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we'll take the conversation from there.

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Hans: Yeah.

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Hi everyone.

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And thanks for that, very kind intro.

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Yeah.

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As you say, I'm, I

guess I'm an author now.

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I used to be.

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But in a different capacity.

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so my background's in law, so

I've done law pretty much my whole

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adult life in some form or another.

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Both university, law firms,

arbitration a different kind of law.

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all the whole spectrum.

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And, it was, probably around 2017, that I

got immersed into this Russiagate thing.

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I was a.

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A full-time law professor at the time,

I had, no, nothing to do with any of

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this stuff, nothing to do with politics,

nothing, just completely doing my thing.

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And, it just, it just was think

we all remember probably when

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that steel dossier came out.

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Russell Newton: sorry for

the interruption there.

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we'll do some editing on that, listeners,

but, we lost some audio for a second.

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Hans, you were in the middle of your,

Leaving from, the law, profession,

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moving into full-time, reporting

really on, on, Russiagate and I guess

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starting there with the, with what

lured you, what interested you in, in

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investigating this and how that proceeded?

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Hans: Like many, I obviously

was fascinated by Trump's win in

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2016, but that, Russiagate was

like far away on the horizon.

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There had been some news reports

here and there, barely noticed about

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something to do with Russia and you, I

wasn't really paying attention and then.

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In early January of 2017, of course,

they, they published a dossier or a

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company called Buzzfeed, published

a dossier, which was supposedly

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the linchpin of the whole thing.

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Trump being a Russian agent.

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I remember I looked at this

thing and I fell off my chair.

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That's how laughable it was.

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it was like as if some

child had written it.

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just on page one, it starts off,

has been, Putin has been, recruiting

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Trump for the past five years

later, it changes to eight years.

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And it's what?

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This is, this guy was a TV celebrity.

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He was a, he has his real estate company.

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What's it got to do with Putin?

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And then it says, it talks about Michelle

Obama that again on the first or second

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page, and it says, Trump hates her.

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And I'm like, eh, that, that's child talk.

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what on earth?

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And so the whole thing

was a complete joke.

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And yet.

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The joke grew bigger and all the media

and everyone was running with it, and

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then they had the special counsel.

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And, I tell that story in, in my book,

but as to, all the things that happened.

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But just going back to what my

own frame of mind was at the

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time, I couldn't believe it.

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I simply could not believe.

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That's something so obviously false,

so totally laughable, had become this

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ginormous thing, which kind of completely

consumed the presidency and unfortunately

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Russell Newton: Yep.

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Hans: diplomacy and foreign

relations, and it really derailed

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the country in a horrible way.

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bit by bit, if there was any kind of

evidence that came out in terms of court

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documents or, messages that were released

under freedom of information laws or

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anything like that, I would jump on that

and start trying to piece apart the lie,

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because at some point I realized they,

they're gonna just keep running with it

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unless we totally debunk this whole thing.

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And eventually we got there and the

book essentially tells that story.

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the perspective of just random

people on the internet who just got

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together, people who never knew each

other, many of them still don't know

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each other in terms of personally

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Russell Newton: Not really.

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Hans: like that.

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it was a very unique effort, I think

in, in, in history really, where a

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whole bunch of random people online got

together and debunked this entire hoax.

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Russell Newton: And the, the,

as you say, the book does tell

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the story and tells it extremely

well, it's very captivating book.

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it's frustrating.

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It's, it's, It just, it really, it,

it kind of makes you mad the way

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things came about and how things

were allowed, or even beyond that

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things were designed to make happen.

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tell us about some of the people

you worked with, because I know they

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had huge parts in discovering names.

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Go crawling social media sites,

taking little clues and redacted

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transcripts, and finding information

really, fascinating ways.

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So some, some intelligent and

resourceful people that you worked

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with in developing part of the story.

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Hans: Absolutely, hugely

resourceful people.

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And, it's just fascinating

even just thinking back about

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how, it all came together and.

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I should start off with some

of these recent revelations,

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which aren't really revelations.

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So the Trump administration, Trump 2.0

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has, released a lot of this

underlying stuff in terms of

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documentation of this hoax.

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And, Howard was perpetrated by James

Comey, the FBI Director John Brennan, the

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CIA director, and all that kind of stuff.

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And the thing, it's partly nice

that it's out there, but it's

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also partly frustrating because.

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We had unearthed all this ourselves

in one way or another over time.

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So it's weird just seeing the

government has now confirmed that

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everything that we already knew.

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Now, unfortunately, some people, go

around, claiming, that they discovered

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this or that, and they're like the person

who's behind it all day exposed it and

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so on, and, That's really not true.

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and it, I, okay, you always have

these kinds of people, but what annoys

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me about it is be, is that this was

uniquely different in that you didn't

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have a, a Woodward and Bernstein.

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it was like everyone was

a Woodward and Bernstein.

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that's the truth of it.

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That's what really happened here.

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And, so for instance,

we had, Steve McIntyre.

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So I'm, I didn't know Steve before

I had heard his name before.

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and we've become very good friends since.

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And how did that happen?

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Steve is a Canadian mining executive.

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he is got, again, nothing to do with

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Russell Newton: Nothing.

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Hans: this kind stuff,

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Russell Newton: Right.

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Hans: he had some experience with hoaxes

and, his story is a fascinating story in

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and of itself, but, many years ago, 20 or

so years ago, he got a leaflet from the

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government, with the hockey stick on it,

the ca the climate hoax, hockey stick.

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And, being trained, having been

trained in math and that kinda stuff,

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he was like, something's not right.

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So then he dug into where did

that hockey stick come from?

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And he found out this and that

university, this and that study.

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And then he just started asking

for the data because he wanted

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to do the math on it on his own.

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then everyone shut their doors

and they put up their walls and

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said, no, you can't have the data.

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And then the whole thing

escalated and escalated.

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And eventually he actually got some,

very incriminating emails on his blog.

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To this day, he doesn't

know where they came from.

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Someone posted in there that

totally exposed the climate hook.

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I know I'm digressing.

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What I'm trying to say is

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Russell Newton: No, not at all.

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Hans: you had this guy who was already

famous in his own right, in that sphere

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for having debunked the, the climate hoax.

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And by the way, he did that

before these, things were sent

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on his, or posted to his blog.

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So he had, published a paper, I think

in:

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whole thing, the whole hockey stick.

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So that's him.

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That's the guy.

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And

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Russell Newton: Wow.

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Okay.

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Hans: familiar with the

name, but that was it.

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And then I saw on Twitter that this

guy was asking some of the similar

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questions, or in fact, some of the

same questions I was asking in terms

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of Russiagate many years later.

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So 20 17, 18.

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I just reached out to him.

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I had no idea he'd reply or whatever.

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You just try your luck.

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and he replied.

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And as it so happens, I was teaching,

very near to where he lives.

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it was just total coincidence.

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And I think it was the next

day or so we, we met in person,

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Russell Newton: Wow.

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Hans: we probably spent five hours or so.

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Just talking about Russiagate.

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It was the, probably the first

time I'd actually talked to a real

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human being in person about it

before that was just online and

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things just took off from there.

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And, so as as I described in the

book, Steve is a very important part

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of this, but there's many others too.

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there's one guy called,

going by a fool, Nelson.

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he's a guy who is.

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Extremely, intuitive in

figuring these things out.

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Like for instance, you have these

redactions, so you get the gov, the

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government gives you these documents, and

then half of the stuff is just redacted,

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so you don't actually know what it says.

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He just has this knack for.

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figuring out things and then seeing

the bigger picture, and then being

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able to connect all these dots.

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he'd be like an amazing,

detective investigator.

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if that was his day job,

which, I can say it is not.

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another guy goes by the

name of Walker Fire.

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again,

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Russell Newton: a fire.

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Hans: hugely intuitive, but

also just hugely brilliant.

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for instance, with these redactions.

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He can tell you how many letters

are behind there, or if redact it

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a hundred percent properly, like a

little bit of ink is sticking out

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at the top on the side or wherever.

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He'll tell you that's

an H and s or whatever.

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I will, I confess, I can't do that.

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But, everyone brought,

amazing talents, to the table.

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it was really a group effort and probably

the most important thing the group did

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was identify the so so-called main source,

or whom they call primary Subsource.

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the guy responsible for everything

like the Trumpy tapes and the

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fact that Trump and Putin had this

collaboration or collusion, the

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fact that they had this, secret

communications channel, the fact that

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they've been colluding for eight years.

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every single story that you can.

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Think of in terms of Russiagate,

it all traces back to this one guy.

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But the FBI was hiding him.

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The US government was hiding him.

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The obviously the Clinton

people who had come up with

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the hoax that were hiding him.

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Everyone was hiding him.

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And we as a group said, no, we're

gonna try and find this guy.

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We're gonna try find out anything we can.

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We got bits of, data from people's books.

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So some people would write a book on

the government side, to make money.

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some people on the Clinton

campaign wrote books.

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Bits and pieces came out of that.

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There were some, people, who, in

government who were trying to get

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things out, like text messages

or whatever, and it, it was just.

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tiny pieces of data.

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the whole story is told in the books.

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I'm not gonna, get into

too much detail here.

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But eventually, also with

the help of another guy goes

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by not me, some other guy.

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I don't actually know his real name.

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but he's a good guy, talk

many times and so on.

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he we had all these puzzle pieces and

then, so this guy comes up and says, yep.

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that's, that must be him.

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And he, I explained in the book how

that happened, how he figured out

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that this Super Source was a guy

called Igor Dan Chenko, a Russian guy

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who didn't live in Russia and had no

access to any of this information.

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And, had just made everything up.

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And as soon as we realized who this guy

was and the fact that he had no access

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to any information and he was just a

joker really, it was very eye-opening.

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And I have to say by that point.

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Our eyes were already wide open, but

still, it was just how can you run

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such a massive hoax that goes on for so

long that sabotages diplomacy, foreign

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relations, US politics in general

completely, eaten up by this hoax.

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it all traces back to someone

who knew nothing about anything.

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And anyway, identifying that guy, finding

out his name, that's what our group did.

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And, I did many others I could name,

but, those are some, off the top

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of my head who were part of that.

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Russell Newton: Yes.

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Thank you for that.

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it's interesting in the book, the cast

of characters that are included in this

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book everywhere from some of the most

intelligent and influential people in

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the world, to some of the more scheming.

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people that are maybe kind of in the

middle of it, that were looking for

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ways to, to accomplish something, but

really even down to kind of innocent

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bystanders who got named as being part

or, and I forgot the name of, there's a

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Russian female that was referenced as a.

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A girlfriend of somebody and she

supposedly then had great Putin insights

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and a lot of these people that were

reportedly had Russian and Putin

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information that ever lived in Russia,

were nowhere near Moscow, had no political

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influences, so people getting dragged

in that really had nothing to do with

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it except for a Russian sounding name,

and, and probably spoke Russian, maybe

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maybe traveled to Russia a time or two.

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Hans: Yeah, that's right.

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Olga, Poland Sky is just a.

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A

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Russell Newton: you.

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Hans: student in London and

just got dragged into it.

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the most egregious example is

probably that of Sergei Milian.

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Russell Newton: Hmm.

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Hans: he has nothing to do with Russia.

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He's from Belarus, but he came to, the US

in, when he was, in his early twenties, or

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late teens, something like that, to study.

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he became an American.

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This was all a long time ago.

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And, he built a business, a successful

business, a real estate business.

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And, he was doing very well.

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But his Achilles heel, not his fault in

any way is, was his success because he

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had one sold Trump apartments in, Fort

Lauderdale, or near Fort Lauderdale.

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And, He because of that, there

were photos of him with Trump.

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of course, if you're a

realtor and you are selling

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Russell Newton: Absolutely.

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Hans: you've shaken the guy's hand

and so on, it's, that's a cool thing.

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You want to advertise that fact.

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And, but unfortunately, they

turned that against him, by

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just, they just framed him.

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They just smeared him.

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They said, here we have a guy whom

we have photos with Trump of we,

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he has a Russian sounding name.

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He has a Russian sounding accent.

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He had something to do with Trump,

and we're just gonna say he's

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the source for all this stuff.

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And then they just made it up.

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They said he was so they that this

Igor Dan Chenko that we just talked

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about, he then claimed he had gotten

all his information from Serge Milian.

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Totally not true.

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Dan Chenko or the Clinton campaign

or whoever told 'em to make

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stuff up just made it all up.

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Everything was totally made up.

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But because they needed like a real human

being, being the source, they just picked

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out this poor guy, Sergey Milian, and

they said, They did it to others as well.

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there's another Russian

lady called Erlana Kova.

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They did it to her as well.

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But Milana always come back to,

because it's like the most extreme

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example you could ever think of.

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A guy who's just doing

his work as a realtor.

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It's got nothing to do with anything.

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Suddenly they say, you're the guy who

told us about, all this collusion.

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And you're the one who told us about,

Trump and, Putin having a secret

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communications channel, and you

told us about the P tape and so all

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the things that are under dossier

supposedly, go back to Serge million.

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Of course, none of them do.

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They were all just made up.

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Russell Newton: And

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it was, there's so many names and I, I.

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Obviously read the book.

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it's different, you know, when

you narrate a book, it's not like

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you're reading for comprehension.

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You can't go back and, you can,

but it really affects the process.

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You go back and say,

what was that paragraph?

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To make sure I have all the names right.

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So forgive me when I misquote or if

I have some of the details wrong.

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But, this, min, did he even meet with,

Dan Chenko or, or Steele or any of the

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appropriate people or was that was there

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Hans: didn't

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Russell Newton: Exactly.

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Thank you.

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Hans: He had no contact,

just nothing whatsoever.

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it's as if they just picked the guy

out of the phone book, and said,

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okay, he's gonna be our patsy.

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And they just ran with that.

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they.

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Russell Newton: really scary.

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Hans: It is now.

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In fact, the reason why we

were able to announce that it

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was Igor Dan Chenko for sure.

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Once we had put all these puzzle

pieces together, we still didn't want

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to go public unless we actually a

hundred percent knew, is we asked,

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Sergey Milian, Hey Sergei, have you

ever come across a guy called Igor?

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Dan Chenko was, no, never heard that name.

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then we asked him, and search your inbox.

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Just search all your

old emails or whatever.

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And he found some emails from 2016 where

this guy, Dan Chenko had, tried to set

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up a meeting and, He got a lot of emails.

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He just ignored it.

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In fact, he said in retrospect, there was

something in, in the, in, in the first

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email that just immediately stood out

as being just so wrong, so bad that he

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just completely, just totally ignored it.

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which was that?

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and Chenko asked him for, to meet, like

he just made up some pretense about we

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gotta discuss business and over a beer.

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And Sergei was like, no serious person.

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No person who's ever done actual

business deals is gonna cold call someone

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and say, Hey, let's go and meet for

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Russell Newton: Right.

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Hans: just doesn't happen.

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So Sergei, very astutely, just ignored it.

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Totally forgot about it.

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Even during the time when we were

trying to find Dan Chenko and even

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when he was being targeted and so on.

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It never occurred to him that this one

email out of, thousands was the guy that,

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that, this was the guy who framed him.

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he had no idea, but it was good for

us because, once we knew that this guy

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had sent him this unsolicited email,

we knew, okay, we got the name right.

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That is the.

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Russell Newton: Fascinating.

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And just to be clear for our listeners,

you have spoken of minion, you've

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spoken with a lot of the primary

characters in the book and the,

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you say you, you have his emails.

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I mean, you have like the source

emails, the original things.

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These are not, things that you.

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You know, have rumors about, but the

actual source verified, versions of all

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these conversations and the unanswered

emails and so forth, which I find, really

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quite a piece of investigative work.

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Hans: I think, I've written books

before, but they're all academic.

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So everything I've ever written, or.

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Written before this was academic.

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So of course you have to follow, a

certain convention, a certain procedure,

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so you have to footnote everything.

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you cannot say, you cannot make any

kind of factual claim of any kind

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without saying where it came from.

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it's, to, to just fiction authors

or even nonfiction authors

391

:

who are not trained in that.

392

:

They just, if it's a very obvious

fact, why would you wanna do that?

393

:

Why would you wanna do that at all?

394

:

it just seems so, so weird.

395

:

But in a way it's how I of programmed.

396

:

everything had to be footnoted,

everything had to be checked,

397

:

everything had to be confirmed.

398

:

And, we ended up with something like 650

or so, something like that, footnotes,

399

:

which, at the time, and I have to say,

when I wrote it, this, we didn't know that

400

:

President Trump was gonna get reelected.

401

:

We didn't know that at

402

:

Russell Newton: Right.

403

:

Hans: the book came out in October.

404

:

2024.

405

:

it was partly intended as a, As as

memorializing what actually happened.

406

:

So that, let's say it all goes bad.

407

:

And, the, we never have this full

exposure that at least there is a record

408

:

of what actually happened where people

in 20, 25 years or whatever from now

409

:

can go back and say, Hey, There's this

document, everything is linked, and so

410

:

on and so forth, and retrace our steps.

411

:

now I guess we, that part is less

important because we have the government

412

:

that recently came out with a lot of

this stuff and confirmed all this stuff.

413

:

Russell Newton: And what you said

at the beginning of that answer,

414

:

draws me back to something we spoke

about toward the top of the podcast.

415

:

you say every writer should have that.

416

:

as a part of their process, putting their

footnotes, documenting and, and proving,

417

:

you know, with the source material.

418

:

Of course not everybody does.

419

:

Hans: Yeah, that's true.

420

:

look, I don't think, I think

footnotes can be a distraction.

421

:

I'm not, personally, I have to

admit, if I read a book, I'm

422

:

not necessarily always looking

423

:

Russell Newton: not cross

checking all those things.

424

:

Yeah.

425

:

Hans: For there not to

be any, that's fine.

426

:

But a minimum, and this doesn't

really, as you say, doesn't

427

:

really happen much anymore.

428

:

a lot of stuff is accepted as

nonfiction when there's just simply

429

:

no proof that it is nonfiction.

430

:

a lot of these characters

like, the Steele Dossier.

431

:

I don't even wanna call him originator,

the sort of, the guy who lent the,

432

:

his name Christopher Steele to the

Steele Dossier, he wrote a book.

433

:

it's just all made up stuff.

434

:

And, all these other characters

even talked about how the Steele

435

:

dossier, how that all came about.

436

:

we talked about, we started at

the end of the chain with Milian,

437

:

the fake source, and then the

next guy along was Igor Chenko.

438

:

the Russian who supposedly.

439

:

Got all this stuff out of Milian.

440

:

And then the next one along was

Christopher Steele, who had been

441

:

commissioned to write this thing.

442

:

again, just all made up and then everyone

used the next guy along as their patsy.

443

:

So Steele said, oh, I don't

know anything about anything

444

:

because it's Chenko told me.

445

:

And Chenko said, oh, I don't

know anything Milian told me.

446

:

And then, one further up the

food chain from Steel was,

447

:

a group called Fusion, GPS.

448

:

these are political operatives in

Washington dc, former Wall Street Journal,

449

:

journalists, and they wrote a book.

450

:

And again, I'm like, no, I don't

believe anything you say because

451

:

there are no primary sources here.

452

:

Why should I believe what you say?

453

:

And of course some of the

in, in government people like

454

:

John Brennan wrote a book.

455

:

James Comey wrote a book.

456

:

James Comey wrote several books and

yeah, it is a problem when people

457

:

write books and the, supposedly

these books are, nonfiction, but

458

:

there's no way to prove that.

459

:

And so in a way, you you do need

the footnotes unless you have,

460

:

total trust in the author that

they're not gonna lie to you.

461

:

Russell Newton: So you're

working your way up the chain

462

:

from, minion, up to, steel who.

463

:

Since he was a British, since he

worked for MI six, he's suddenly a

464

:

James Bond figure, which that because

of its Hollywood esque sounding

465

:

name, brings some credibility

to a lot of people, fusion GPS.

466

:

And then once you get to

Fusion, you're real close to

467

:

the, Clinton campaign itself.

468

:

Is that correct?

469

:

Hans: Yeah, but they,

there's still two layers.

470

:

So then you have

471

:

Russell Newton: Still two layers.

472

:

Hans: called Perkins Coy, and a

lot of people have heard, of course

473

:

about of, mark Elias, who was the

head honcho there at the time.

474

:

And he had his sidekick, a guy

called Michael Sussman, and they

475

:

were the Clinton campaign lawyers.

476

:

But they were also in this law firm.

477

:

so anything they did, they could just

claim legal privilege or we're not

478

:

gonna give any information on anything.

479

:

So when they hired, fusion GPS kinda

one further down on the food chain,

480

:

They could just disavow because they

could just say, we're a law firm.

481

:

and in fact they billed it as legal

services, which obviously it was not.

482

:

And later on they were

fined many years later.

483

:

But it's just like a sort

of a slap on the wrist.

484

:

they had to pay a fine

for, mislabeling that item.

485

:

And then one further up from law firm,

of course, is the Clinton campaign,

486

:

but I'd say the Clinton campaign isn't.

487

:

Hillary Clinton herself, yet

that's one further step because

488

:

Russell Newton: Another step.

489

:

Hans: these are just my campaign people.

490

:

I don't know what they

were doing and so on.

491

:

So I dunno, we, where are we?

492

:

Like 7, 7, 8 levels

493

:

Russell Newton: At least.

494

:

Yeah.

495

:

Hans: So that, that's why it's so hard

to get these people, get Hillary Clinton

496

:

for what she did here because, as I

just said, everyone, she can claim eight

497

:

layers of deniability further down.

498

:

it's more difficult to do that.

499

:

Russell Newton: And it's funny on if

you come back at the other way from it.

500

:

You take, characters in the book

like Carter Page or Papadopoulos,

501

:

who are many steps removed from

Trump, but a rumor about them

502

:

is attributed directly to Trump.

503

:

Everything, you know, Hillary's level,

shield, and I, whatever the top is, you

504

:

know, those label all shield somebody

and they could say, they said it, they

505

:

said, and pointed it down the line.

506

:

But when you're coming from the media, if

Carter Page said something, that's a quote

507

:

from Trump is how they wanna present it.

508

:

Hans: That is such a good point.

509

:

I think I might be mistaken,

Matt, I think Carter Page has

510

:

never, ever met Donald Trump.

511

:

certainly not during the campaign.

512

:

They had this one meeting where he

was not in attendance and that was it.

513

:

and George Papadopoulos met him

exactly once, but not one-on-one

514

:

or whatever at a, in a big room.

515

:

At a big table.

516

:

Russell Newton: right.

517

:

Hans: and you're so right that.

518

:

the media uses this one.

519

:

There, there was a photo of that

table where there's Papadopoulos

520

:

somewhere at the end, and then Trump

is on the other end, and there's

521

:

all these other people there.

522

:

But, supposedly Papadopoulos is like

Trump's best friend and, they're

523

:

coordinating everything and so on.

524

:

It is just, it's absolutely laughable,

but that's what they got away with.

525

:

Russell Newton: Armenian who is

even further removed with a, a real

526

:

estate dealing with 10 or 15 years

prior or five, 10 years prior.

527

:

Just happened to be in

a, in a, in a picture.

528

:

Yeah.

529

:

It, the selective editing and

selective reporting that, mainstream

530

:

press, does is, is really misleading

and, and probably purposely so,

531

:

Hans: Absolutely, they'll always revert

back to, a position where they don't

532

:

have to give up the overall narrative.

533

:

as you say, okay, maybe there

was no collusion, but there was

534

:

definitely interference and,

And that's where we are now.

535

:

And the, there are, a few things

that they grasp and hold onto.

536

:

I'd say probably the most important

one is this, the story that the Russian

537

:

government hacked the Democratic

National Committee June of 20.

538

:

16.

539

:

supposedly the hacking started,

this, whatever happened

540

:

there, earlier in April, may.

541

:

But, anyway, in June of 2016 is when

it supposed, when the Washington

542

:

Post reported about it, I write

about this in the book and, then,

543

:

we were off to the races in terms

of the Russian government did this.

544

:

To this day, there is no evidence.

545

:

Absolutely no evidence.

546

:

No evidence has ever been

presented that actually happened.

547

:

And they run with the narrative.

548

:

They stick with the narrative.

549

:

So they say, maybe the part about

Trump wasn't true, but the Russians did

550

:

that and they did that to help Trump.

551

:

They're still trying

to hold onto that part.

552

:

So as these things fall

apart, I think the.

553

:

The one that will eventually fall apart

will be, and has been the whole of this

554

:

year basically is the idea that they

did it to help Trump, which again, I

555

:

talk about this in the book as well.

556

:

It is just so ludicrous.

557

:

No one in Moscow really thought

that Trump was gonna be president.

558

:

Maybe there was a 10% chance

or something like that.

559

:

Hillary was way ahead in the polls.

560

:

people just need to go

back to October of:

561

:

Just go back in your own minds as to,

this Access Hollywood tape that came out

562

:

Russell Newton: Mm-hmm.

563

:

Hans: said all these, misogynistic things.

564

:

The media wa was completely apoplectic,

obviously, as they always are.

565

:

But the thing is, Hillary was

way ahead in the polls and

566

:

jumped on that weekend as well.

567

:

And everyone was saying Trump is done.

568

:

Trump is buried.

569

:

Even his own party, they were discussing.

570

:

Getting rid of him and having him

replaced with Pence or whoever.

571

:

many people were talking about that.

572

:

So the idea that somehow in Moscow

there were people who knew that none

573

:

of this would come, true and instead,

Trump would emerge victorious.

574

:

how could Putin influence whether Hillary

was gonna campaign in Michigan or not?

575

:

Which he decided not to, or

Wisconsin, or which he decided not to.

576

:

it's got nothing to do with Putin.

577

:

So the idea that Putin had some

special insight is just so ludicrous.

578

:

Obviously he didn't do it to, if he did

do anything, he didn't do it to help,

579

:

Trump win because that was just such a

long shot that it, if anything, and this

580

:

is some of the new information that's

come out that is actually like new that we

581

:

couldn't have uncovered because it's based

on, intel that just wasn't available.

582

:

They were actually, if anything,

they were holding back because they

583

:

thought, she's gonna be president so

we better have some, dirt or whatever.

584

:

That's probably the wrong word, but,

we better have some stories about her,

585

:

if and when she becomes president.

586

:

I think that's gonna fall by the wayside.

587

:

But then we're still gonna probably

be stuck with the, they did something

588

:

and the something might be the, or

I think is gonna be the one that

589

:

they keep coming back to, which

is the Russia hacked the DNC.

590

:

That's, that's the story.

591

:

Again, there is no evidence for that.

592

:

Now, I don't, I'm not gonna sit here and

tell you Russia did not hack the DSE.

593

:

I don't think they did.

594

:

But what I can say for certain is

there is no evidence that they did.

595

:

That's where we stand.

596

:

And in fact, anytime that anyone

who said that, that's what happened.

597

:

For instance, a company called

CrowdStrike, that did the, the sort

598

:

of the IT work for the DNC, they said

in:

599

:

the CEO of CrowdStrike was later called

a year or two later was called to

600

:

Congress to testify about what he knew.

601

:

And he said, I don't know anything.

602

:

as soon as he was under oath,

it wasn't Russia, or at least

603

:

he couldn't say anything at all.

604

:

So that's the thing.

605

:

Unfortunately, I, it's probably gonna

take a long time to get rid of this in

606

:

the broad public's perception altogether,

and we may never get rid of it.

607

:

there will be lasting damage in terms

of Russia did something in:

608

:

If we just distill it down, down

to those few words, Russia did

609

:

something in 2016, we might never,

ever be able to, transcend that.

610

:

Russell Newton: And even along those

lines, the same thing we talked

611

:

about with the separation before.

612

:

Russian hackers did not

mean the Russian government.

613

:

Hans: Yeah.

614

:

Russell Newton: If they, you know,

if there was just because someone

615

:

from Russia might have hacked

something, or Belarus, I should say.

616

:

You know, we don't need any real

facts, we just need some allegations.

617

:

Some organizations feel that

they can throw out there with

618

:

the things that are coming out.

619

:

Now, your book, again, the, the things

tsi, Gabbard and, and Cash Patel are,

620

:

are putting out into the public maybe

a two-pronged question, and this

621

:

draws back on your legal, background.

622

:

What do you think?

623

:

Well, let's do it the other way.

624

:

What do you hope Will, will

come of this as far as,

625

:

repercussions for those involved.

626

:

And what do you think?

627

:

Is it going to make a

splash and then go away?

628

:

Will it, will there be some very,

high level people that are taken

629

:

to task for what they've done?

630

:

Hans: I'm not confident that's

631

:

Russell Newton: I.

632

:

Hans: happen.

633

:

we had some, hope earlier this year

where, they released, as I said, they

634

:

released one or two new things and we

touched upon some of them here today, but.

635

:

in overall, they just confirmed

what we already knew, but that's

636

:

still valuable because you have

the US government confirming

637

:

that the whole thing was a hoax.

638

:

that's a big thing.

639

:

That's a big step to

640

:

Russell Newton: Right.

641

:

Hans: so

642

:

Russell Newton: Yeah.

643

:

Hans: And so with that came the hope

that the people in the US government

644

:

who were responsible for that,

who've now been exposed, and again,

645

:

this is not just Tulsi Gabbard or

Cash Patel saying it, they actually

646

:

released the underlying documents,

647

:

Russell Newton: Okay.

648

:

Hans: and primary source documents.

649

:

It's always the most important one.

650

:

The actual, FBI three oh twos, which

is the interview reports or the

651

:

actual, intelligence that came out,

verbatim and what, or whatever it is.

652

:

They released it all.

653

:

there's hundreds and hundreds

of new pages of stuff which.

654

:

Absolutely unambiguously shows that US

government people, high level officials,

655

:

including the FBI director and the CIA

director were involved in this plot, in,

656

:

in advancing this plot against Trump.

657

:

that is, there's incontrovertible

evidence of that.

658

:

So of course when that happened,

people were like, oh, great,

659

:

now we're gonna see arrests.

660

:

Now we're gonna see all these things.

661

:

And it's been a few months

and we haven't seen anything.

662

:

And in fact, recently, in August, a

very important deadline passed, in,

663

:

in, unfortunately, in, in the legal

system, or fortunately, there's two

664

:

sides to this, but there are time limits

665

:

Russell Newton: Right.

666

:

Hans: new usual time limit for

a federal law is five years.

667

:

Five years after something happened,

you can no longer charge someone.

668

:

Russell Newton: Okay.

669

:

Hans: misconception about this that

some people think, oh, it's five

670

:

years after you found out about it.

671

:

so the five years would start ticking now,

but unfortunately that's not how it works.

672

:

The five years start ticking

from when it happened.

673

:

Even if you never ever found out about it.

674

:

Now, some crimes are not

part of that, time limit.

675

:

Again, there's all kinds of historic

reasons for why there is a time limit

676

:

and why some are covered and some most

are covered and some are not, and so on.

677

:

But generally speaking, unfortunately,

the stuff we're talking about here,

678

:

and I know people throw out treason and

whatever, but let's just be realistic

679

:

in terms of what happened here.

680

:

You're pretty much stuck to the

five year time in, in some form.

681

:

I know there's nuances and people are

gonna say, but the five years can reset.

682

:

And yeah, I know all that, but it's just,

we had a very important five year deadline

683

:

that just passed, which was, John Brennan,

the CIA director, had given a very

684

:

long interview, to the special counsel

five years ago, full of falsehoods.

685

:

That would've been a fantastic, basis

to charge 'em upon, and they just

686

:

let that day pass without anything.

687

:

Now again, some people are gonna say.

688

:

it doesn't matter, they're gonna

find something else and yeah, the

689

:

hope springs eternal and so on.

690

:

But if you let something so important

pass, then that does tell me

691

:

that, maybe this is not as real as

serious as some people, hope it is.

692

:

The other thing people say, as

I just alluded to, they'll say,

693

:

oh, you can reset the clock.

694

:

Yeah, you can find ways of doing that.

695

:

but it just makes things so much

more difficult and it gives the other

696

:

side, the defendant so many possible

defenses to getting the case thrown out.

697

:

It just makes things

completely complicated.

698

:

So go with the easy, straightforward

thing, which is bring the charges within

699

:

five years and they fail to do that.

700

:

So to answer your question,

I'm very pessimistic that we're

701

:

gonna see actual accountability.

702

:

Russell Newton: Yeah, yeah.

703

:

Sadly that's, the way of it.

704

:

So many times.

705

:

I wanna ask a question, a very general

question from the devil's advocate

706

:

side of if we still have listeners

that are not, supportive of your work

707

:

or still want to disbelieve your work.

708

:

I, I don't know if you've done

many podcasts with, People that

709

:

disagree or try to argue the points

with you, but what are some of the

710

:

primary things that people use?

711

:

if you're willing to share these

or if you want to answer this

712

:

question, if not, just say so.

713

:

that people use to argue against

the things you brought forth.

714

:

Do they accuse you of things?

715

:

Do they, do they have other

information they hint toward

716

:

or have, will make available?

717

:

Just outta curiosity.

718

:

Do you have a lot of people that

are pushing back against the

719

:

information you're presenting?

720

:

Hans: So a couple of points on that.

721

:

No, not many.

722

:

I, to be honest, I can think of

one group of people right now and

723

:

I'll get to them here in a moment.

724

:

But in terms of just, broad

audience or whatever, no.

725

:

Russell Newton: Okay.

726

:

Hans: and again, I think that's probably

because everything is footnoted.

727

:

So if,

728

:

Russell Newton: Yes.

729

:

Hans: that anything is

730

:

Russell Newton: Okay.

731

:

Hans: just go and.

732

:

Check out what it says in the footnote.

733

:

and then I will take you

to the source document.

734

:

And then you'll see that whatever I

quoted or said or whatever is true.

735

:

that's actually what happened.

736

:

funny because there was a group of

people who were a little bit incredulous.

737

:

I don't, I hope they don't mind me

saying this about some of the claims.

738

:

And then they, did come back to me

and wanted me, even though there was

739

:

a footnote, they still wanted me to.

740

:

Okay, just confirm are you really sure?

741

:

Is this really true?

742

:

and that's actually the original editors.

743

:

Of the print version.

744

:

So when they did

745

:

Russell Newton: Oh really?

746

:

Hans: original editing round, there was

like, for instance, some of the Hunter

747

:

Biden stuff, what he got away with.

748

:

some of that is detailed in

the book because there's some

749

:

overlap between these Russiagate

and Hunter Biden investigations.

750

:

And, there's also some overlap

between the Ukraine situation, Ukraine

751

:

impeachment situation, and Russia.

752

:

Again, it's all, of the people

involved are the same people over

753

:

and you, so you have this overlap.

754

:

There, there are parts in the book

where I talk about the Hunter Biden

755

:

situation and what he was up to and.

756

:

I remember that.

757

:

I was like, no, that, that

couldn't have happened.

758

:

no.

759

:

And I was like, are you

really sure that is true?

760

:

And it really was.

761

:

Or, some of the, the text messages,

the incriminating text messages from

762

:

some of these FBI personnel, people

have heard about the obvious ones where

763

:

they, talk about, will stop Trump.

764

:

Peter struck one of the FBI investigators,

the lead investigator, texted that.

765

:

there's also some that maybe have

not been, shared as much in the

766

:

media and, people haven't heard.

767

:

And then I got some questions on that,

like that's not, did they really say that?

768

:

Another big one, that's been, that

actually was confirmed this year by, Tulsi

769

:

Gabbard, but that's already in the book.

770

:

That's all in the book is the one where

all these people that, by all these

771

:

people, President Obama, John Brennan,

CIH Chief, James Comey, Peter Struck,

772

:

whom I just mentioned, all these big hon

shows, leading the charge against Trump.

773

:

They actually knew that this

was a clin Hillary Clinton

774

:

campaign hoax the whole thing.

775

:

They knew that at the time, back in 2016.

776

:

again, I described in the

book Why and how and so on.

777

:

And, anyway, I know I got, I remember

I got, several questions on that one.

778

:

no, they couldn't have known.

779

:

That's not possible.

780

:

And they did know.

781

:

Yeah, that, that's it's funny, isn't

it, that the people who are supposed to,

782

:

work with you on the book, they're, they

were the ones who were, the most kind of,

783

:

incredulous about some of these claims.

784

:

But, everything checked out.

785

:

the other thing I should mention here,

it's to do with your question is.

786

:

supporters or supporters

of Trump generally.

787

:

some people are not happy with the title

or have questions about the title, so

788

:

that's probably the, if there's negative

comments, it's usually about the title,

789

:

Russell Newton: Hmm.

790

:

Hans: of course people remember

swift boating as something

791

:

Russell Newton: Right.

792

:

Hans: done.

793

:

to, John Kerry in the 2004

presidential campaign, not by his

794

:

opponent, president Bush, 43, but

by a group of ve Vietnam veterans.

795

:

And what they accused, Kerry

of is, basically, in Vietnam.

796

:

he was a commander of a swift boat and,

he got some purple hearts and things

797

:

like that, and they said there was, his

stories weren't true and, getting, a lot

798

:

of detail to what happened back in, 2004.

799

:

And I guess some of it stuck because,

he came back from Vietnam and he

800

:

was a big anti-Vietnam protestor.

801

:

He was one of the leaders and

so they, they made that stick.

802

:

Now, personally, I never.

803

:

I don't know what, which part of

that is true or not, or whatever,

804

:

Russell Newton: Okay.

805

:

Hans: as far as John Kerry is

concerned, just my personal view is.

806

:

actually went there, he actually

got shot at, so whatever you think

807

:

of the guy that actually happened,

he was a commander on a swift boat.

808

:

He was in these, I've been

to Vietnam many times.

809

:

I've been to those areas.

810

:

Those are horrific areas.

811

:

If you're on a tiny little boat and

you're being shot at, that's no fun.

812

:

So he did that.

813

:

can hate the guy or not, or whatever.

814

:

That's what actually happened.

815

:

But the point about the ni, the name

Swift boating and because he was the

816

:

swift boat, commander back there is.

817

:

the, I'm the, I didn't make it

into a kind of a negative thing.

818

:

It's the Hillary Clinton campaign

themselves who did that because they

819

:

called their campaign against Trump,

the:

820

:

Trump to, smear Trump as, as, as

Putin's puppet, as for Russia collusion.

821

:

Just in as, as simple as possible, the

Swift Build project, the Clinton campaign

822

:

Swift Build project, which they themselves

called their own swift build project, to

823

:

smear Trump as, colluding with Russia.

824

:

They came up with that.

825

:

So obviously they were using the

word in a sense of we're gonna

826

:

come up with this story that smears

Trump, and I think they were.

827

:

Thinking back to 2004, where they thought,

Hey, our buddy John Kerry, he got smeared

828

:

and now we're gonna do it to, to Trump.

829

:

So to, in my view, I see where people

say, okay, swift building is something

830

:

that, Kerry deserved it or whatever.

831

:

I know, I don't necessarily

agree, but I see where these

832

:

people are coming from, it's the.

833

:

Clinton campaign who

themselves called it that.

834

:

They admitted it.

835

:

They admitted that it's a smear.

836

:

So the what's behind the name

is that it's by, by design.

837

:

a fabrication by design, A plot

against Trump, by the Clinton

838

:

people who called it that.

839

:

It's, they came up with the name.

840

:

Now the working title was

actually Swift boating Trump.

841

:

But then somewhere along the line,

somewhere in chapter 8, 9, 10,

842

:

whatever, I was like, you know what?

843

:

This is really much bigger

844

:

Russell Newton: It's bigger than that.

845

:

Hans: is,

846

:

Russell Newton: Hmm.

847

:

Hans: Swift voted America, not just Trump.

848

:

So then that the title changed.

849

:

Russell Newton: And it is fascinating,

850

:

Hans: I.

851

:

Russell Newton: when you look at it in

the light of why you changed the title.

852

:

Just the, the possibility of the real

long-term damage on a global scale

853

:

just because of now, difficulties with

Russia and distrust and so many things.

854

:

you know, we, we blame Russia for

so long about these nebulous things

855

:

and diplomacy falls apart and things

change and, it, it really is sobering.

856

:

let me ask you one last question.

857

:

this is a podcast in, in

my, early stages of podcast.

858

:

Of course, you read and they say,

always finish out your podcast

859

:

with a call to action, you know, or

have your call to action in there.

860

:

And when I read the book, I find a

couple of personal things that I think

861

:

are important, but I'd like to, I,

I'm gonna throw these out there, but

862

:

if you have calls to action what you

would like people to do because of

863

:

this book, or if there is actions they

wanna take, I mean, when I read it, I

864

:

realize I need to think critically about.

865

:

The material that I take in when I

read a headline or see an article, you

866

:

know, if, if people early on in this

process had pushed back and said, what's

867

:

real, what's factual things would've

turned out differently, most likely.

868

:

you know, so that, that's one thing

I see is that we need to pay more

869

:

attention to what's being reported to

us as consumers and make sure that what

870

:

we're believing is actually believable.

871

:

what other do you have?

872

:

Other, do you agree with that?

873

:

For one, do you have other calls to

action that you would like people

874

:

to implement because of your book?

875

:

Hans: Yeah, no, I, I

completely agree with you.

876

:

I think we have.

877

:

The, I have a broad one, but I also, let

me start off with a very specific one.

878

:

I don't know how much, any one person

can do, other than President Trump

879

:

himself, but, maybe broadly something

can be done and that is that there are

880

:

still people, victims out of this thing.

881

:

We talked about Serge million, we

talked about many of these other people.

882

:

There are still people still currently,

dealing with the fallout from this.

883

:

there's one guy, who, we haven't talked

about, general Flynn, for instance.

884

:

he,

885

:

Russell Newton: Hmm, that's right.

886

:

Hans: story upon himself.

887

:

He actually has a great new movie

out, so people can watch that

888

:

and see what that story is about.

889

:

I talk about his story in a book and

detail that as well, but he had a client

890

:

and the client was, was targeted, by these

Russia collusion hoaxes, simply in order

891

:

to get him to say bad stuff about Flynn.

892

:

And then they could have used that to get

Flynn to say bad stuff about Trump, and

893

:

that client is still under indictment.

894

:

Mueller indictment, special Council,

Robert Mueller, the guy who is now,

895

:

declared senile and supposedly never ran

anything and the whole thing was a hoax.

896

:

they still have, that case going.

897

:

They have another case going to do with

what we talked earlier about these, this

898

:

DNC hack, which they're using that case

to hold up freedom information and so on.

899

:

This is a case against a bunch

of Russians, who you know, again,

900

:

there's no evidence that did

anything, but they hold out.

901

:

They say, oh, we got an open case here.

902

:

Therefore we cannot do freedom

of information and then

903

:

we cannot find out stuff.

904

:

On a specific level, I would love for

all these cases, these Mueller era cases,

905

:

the holes, all these Russiagate collusion

hoax cases, just to be terminated.

906

:

DOJ should just end these cases today.

907

:

On a broad level, I'm

completely with you here.

908

:

we had the rush.

909

:

We had the Iraq WMD hoax, which by

the way ran along very similar lines.

910

:

They also had their own

Igor Dan Chenko back then.

911

:

a guy called Curve

Ball, that was his, his.

912

:

code name and he supposedly he's,

he'd seen the WMD and he'd seen all

913

:

these trucks with the, these mobile

WMD, labs and all this kind of stuff.

914

:

It was all made up.

915

:

It was totally made up.

916

:

And then after that, they, after

that whole fiasco, they said,

917

:

we're gonna do better next time.

918

:

And.

919

:

They didn't do better.

920

:

They did it again in Russiagate.

921

:

yeah, I think it's fool me once,

fool me twice, kind of thing.

922

:

And now we're at three times

923

:

Russell Newton: Right.

924

:

Hans: not buy into hoaxes.

925

:

should just be much, much more,

careful with what they're told and

926

:

just circumspect about all these

things, which I think they are.

927

:

I think we've really

turned a corner in general.

928

:

people are far more skeptical of anything

the government says, than they were.

929

:

Back in the WMD days and

also since, since Russiagate.

930

:

So I think we're getting there.

931

:

But that would be, to me,

that's the big takeaway.

932

:

I.

933

:

Russell Newton: Myself included,

far more skeptical of what.

934

:

The government, what the

press, what anybody says.

935

:

and part of that comes with age, which

I've got plenty of, but, yeah, it's, so

936

:

many things that we didn't get to today.

937

:

I, I appreciate your time.

938

:

You know, we didn't get to talk about the

FISA Court or the Fisk and, the FISAs.

939

:

we didn't get to talk about

the Hillary Clinton's emails.

940

:

so many things that are talked

about in depth in the book.

941

:

The listeners and, and readers really

need to pick up a copy of this, this

942

:

book is endorsed by General Flynn,

who you mentioned a few moments ago,

943

:

a great review by him about your book.

944

:

so that's a powerful

endorsement there, I believe.

945

:

ladies and gentlemen, listeners,

once again, this has been Hans Monka,

946

:

author of Swift Voting America.

947

:

The book came out just

within the last month or so.

948

:

Am I correct, Hans?

949

:

Hans: The audible version.

950

:

Yeah, that's correct.

951

:

Russell Newton: Yeah.

952

:

so, Books available on

Amazon, other booksellers.

953

:

The audio book is available on

Amazon, audible, iTunes, and

954

:

probably other, other fronts as well.

955

:

Hans, you have a website, hans monka.com

956

:

that listeners might want

to visit to learn more about

957

:

you and more about the book.

958

:

You also have a social media presence.

959

:

on XI looked at YouTube, YouTube channel.

960

:

That was one of the

questions I had earlier.

961

:

It looked like about the time

you started your research here.

962

:

Your YouTube channel, didn't get the

attention because you changed your focus.

963

:

It looked like you were doing a

lot of legal coursework, and then

964

:

you moved into this, researching.

965

:

I was hoping to find some things on

YouTube, on your YouTube channel,

966

:

but there's so many interviews

and so much good information with

967

:

you and about you, and about this.

968

:

I hope it, I hope it opens some eyes and

has some effect on the everyday person.

969

:

And the closing comment, if I could

say this, you mentioned, you know,

970

:

how much is there one person can do?

971

:

I think your book is an indication of

that one person that decided to take

972

:

this on, to find the truth, determined to

find the truth in an honest and reputable

973

:

way, and not present a spin about it.

974

:

You've done that, you've

put it out in the public.

975

:

It's getting, I hope.

976

:

The attention it deserves and, in

the minds of the readers and the

977

:

listeners, I hope it will have the

effect, that it should have on us.

978

:

Hans, again, thanks for being

with us and, do you have any final

979

:

words that you wanna share with

our listeners before we close out?

980

:

Hans: First of all, thanks for

having me on, but also thank

981

:

you for, reading the book.

982

:

it's weird when you have your own, I've

read the book probably 10 times in my

983

:

own voice because I had to do editing.

984

:

you read it again and

again, as you go through it.

985

:

And, so this is the first time I

heard it, someone else, speaking it.

986

:

And it was, you really brought it to life.

987

:

You have a fantastic voice and, yeah.

988

:

Thanks for that.

989

:

that was amazing.

990

:

Russell Newton: Thank you.

991

:

Well, it's written in

such a way that it's easy.

992

:

to come across as relatable because

the, the language is, is there.

993

:

It's just, it.

994

:

The, the, your style of writing is

very approachable, very understandable.

995

:

And when you have great material,

it's, it's easy to present

996

:

it, in a, in a pleasing way.

997

:

So I'm glad you enjoyed it.

998

:

I hope our listeners will

as well check that out.

999

:

And, I guess that wraps us up for the day.

:

00:46:26,383 --> 00:46:27,283

We're right at an hour.

:

00:46:27,463 --> 00:46:28,813

Thank you for your time, Hans.

:

00:46:28,873 --> 00:46:31,843

I hope you have great success with

the book and with the audio book

:

00:46:31,873 --> 00:46:34,323

and, Maybe we'll speak again when

you have another book come out.

:

00:46:34,323 --> 00:46:35,733

I, I'll be looking forward to that.

:

00:46:35,814 --> 00:46:36,474

Hans: Love to do that.

:

00:46:36,474 --> 00:46:36,739

Thank you.

:

00:46:37,743 --> 00:46:38,043

Russell Newton: Great.

:

00:46:38,353 --> 00:46:41,683

thank you listeners for being with us on

voiceover work and we'll see you next week

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