Mark Wingfield shares how the Havening Technique can help us with with the difficult things in life - adversity, trauma, tragedy and threats.

Havening means to put a person in a 'safe haven'. Mark's background is in conflict and self defence and has seen how this new approach can help many people who've overcome so many issues.

The science behind Havening: Mark explains that Gamma waves are the predominant brain waves at the time of traumatisation. This high oscillation of calcium creates a number of consequences of various neurotransmitters. Simply put, receptors in the amygdala are connected and stay with us like 'glue' - it becomes a programmed in the brain with a response to any triggers that were there at the time of traumatisation.

When we touch certain areas of the body, we generate a delta (brain) wave. This is much slower than the Gamma waves the brain creates when in a state of traumatisation. These Delta waves send signals that help us feel safe, they are a self-soother. In turn this changes the chemical balance in out brain and helps remove the 'glue' that held the receptors in the trauma state.

Get in touch with Sal

If this episode has caught your attention and you wish to learn more, then please contact me. I offer a free 20 min call where we can discuss a challenge your facing and how I may be able to help you.

Get in touch with Mark

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Havening Max Website

Welcome to Mindset, Mood and Movement, a systemic approach to human

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behavior, performance, and well being.

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Our psychological, emotional, and

physical health are all connected,

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and my guests and I endeavor to share

knowledge, strategies, and tools for

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you to enrich your life and work.

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Hello and welcome.

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I'm joined today by my guest Mark

Wingfield, and we're going to be coming

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some really interesting, but some quite

sensitive areas around how do we handle

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adversity, trauma, tragedy, and threats.

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And using, what Mark uses is a

psychosensory approach called the

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Havening Technique, which we're

going to go into and learn more.

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A little, care note.

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We are going to be talking about

some sensitive issues around trauma.

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so please be aware there

is some sensitive content.

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It doesn't go too deep.

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And, Mark explains things in a way

that's very professional and very safe.

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but hopes to share that.

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There are ways to overcome

difficulties and traumas and some

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of the bad things that may happen.

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So I want you to be aware of that.

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Now, Mark is, as we said, a

havening trainer and he's a speaker.

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He also works with adrenal stress,

programs, and really helped people

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come to their full potential.

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So I'm really excited to have Mark.

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share with us today the

processes that he works with.

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And I don't know much about

the havening technique myself.

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So I'm going to sit back a little

more on this one and become a

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learner too, to learn about how

this approach might help all of

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those areas that we've spoken about.

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Adversity, trauma, tragedy,

threats, and perhaps how we can

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apply that for ourself and how you

might learn more to take forward.

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Welcome Mark.

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It's good to have you.

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Mark Wingfield: Thank you Sal, lovely to

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be here.

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Sal Jefferies: Mark, I'm intrigued

because you've already shared to me

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this lovely approach that you do.

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It's fascinating.

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I'd like to go a little deeper,

like how did you get to this

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point in your life so you became a

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practitioner of havening and what is that?

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Mark Wingfield: Well, that's that's

a really good question and I'll give

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you a potted history because it time

to unpack that but was, I didn't

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come to Havening by the normal route.

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Within the Havening community we

have people who are dyed in the wool

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psychotherapists, very experienced,

very capable, Come from all sorts

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of different backgrounds, using

all sorts of different modalities.

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We have neuroscientists.

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We have psychologists.

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We really very experienced people.

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And then there's me.

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And I, I came to Havening

because I'm curious.

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And you have to be curious

to, to look at Havening.

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That's all, all you have to ask

for because Havening will, will do

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the But I come from a background

where a very experienced trainer.

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And my business had evolved primarily

providing conflict management,

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I had a particular niche in

helping people with aggression and

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violence, although all that I did.

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And somebody said to me one day, Oh,

ought to get into havening, Sorry?

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I've been to havering.

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What on earth is havening?

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They said, no, no, you don't understand.

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It's about putting people in a safe haven.

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I said, well, okay.

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So how does that apply to me?

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And I'd mentioned to this on my courses,

where the aggression and violence courses,

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the way that we work is quite intimidating

at times, it's designed to be scary.

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So that people experientially learn how

to deal with nasty And be successful.

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But because it's scary, sometimes,

using the methodology we use,

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some people can't access it.

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Because they're like, Crikey,

what's he going to say to me?

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What's he going to do?

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And they've had prior trauma, and they're

just not in a place to even be in the same

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room to see that sort of stuff happen.

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So, curious, and I thought, well, I'll

talk to the guy that's running the

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training And I'll talk to some people

that I know have been involved in And

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so I first spoke to a lady called Annie.

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And the reason I did that was because I

saw a picture of Annie as a demonstration

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volunteer in a Havening session.

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I thought, that's Annie!

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What's she doing there?

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So I phoned her up and said,

what's this Havening about?

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She said, Oh, it's brilliant!

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Absolutely brilliant!

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tell me, tell me all.

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Anyway, so she told me more about it,

how she got immediate sounds interesting.

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So I phoned up the guy afterwards

who was running the training.

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And he said, look, be as

sceptical as you like.

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He said, I was.

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Because it just sounds far too

good to be You know, you rub your

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arms, or stroke your face, or

your palms, and it all goes away.

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He said, there's a lot more to

it than that, of course, but

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it's backed by neuroscience.

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It was developed by a neuroscientist

who became a In fact, he's just retired

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after 40 years as And he said, you

know, if you think it can help you,

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and I was thinking about a one to

one treatment for those people that

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couldn't access the scary training.

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He said, if you're interested, you

know, come along to the training

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and make of it what you will.

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So I came along, fairly

sceptical, but intrigued.

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The words of Annie ringing in my ears,

there's something to this, clearly, but

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what it I sat down, and one of the first

things we did was we had a demonstration.

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And I saw a lady called Patty, who I'm

still in contact with she had had an awful

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situation where, briefly put, her mum had

died very on the operating and Patty had

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said to her mum that morning, Look mum,

stop worrying about the operation, you're

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going to be fine, I'll see you later.

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never saw her mother again.

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So she was traumatised by her last

words, her last argument with her mum,

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you know, the memory of that, and I saw

her over a period of, I think, it was

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about half an hour, something like that,

maybe 40 minutes maximum, and we saw

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this transformation in Patty, where she

explained what the problem was initially,

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tears, every time she thought of her

mum, over the years, there were always

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And the trainer took her through, very

and I was just watching he's obviously

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got a focus here, and there were more

tears, briefly, but then there was this

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change, and she seemed a lot calmer, and

anyway, was called to a close, the and

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Patty turned to the audience, and And

there were tears streaming down her face.

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I thought, oh, it still crying.

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And she could see the

incredulity audience's faces.

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no, no, no, no, these are tears of joy.

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She said, I can't believe I'm

thinking about my mum, and

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I'm not really, really upset.

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I'm so unburdened.

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I can't remember exactly the

word she used, but it was kind

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of, oh, dropped the shackles.

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And I thought, ooh, okay, so we then had

a cup of coffee and I went over to Patti

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and I said, but this is just amazing.

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So I was hooked and, so we did the two

days training and by the end of it, I was

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a little bit competent in delivering And

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I, I certified in science so that's, that

was my bizarre way into Havening, and I

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didn't really use it for, in a great way.

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In a great way, in a, in

very regularly I should say.

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I used it in a great way, in lots

of ways, lots of relief for people.

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But anyway, it took me a while

to get into it, and because I was

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very busy doing my other stuff.

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And then lockdown And all my business

died Because practically all of it

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was face to Now the lovely thing about

Haveney is you can do it online as well.

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So I've helped North America,

Asia, all over the world.

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Just through things like Zoom, or

Skype, or whatever it happens And

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I thought, well, maybe I can, pick

up the crumbs of the business here,

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and, least earn some money, because

I had no money coming in whatsoever.

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And, anyway, so that reset me.

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And I'd been asked to be

a Havening trainer before.

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I'd helped out on the very

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I speak fluent German, I'd helped the

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And I thought, yeah, timing's right now.

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So, anyway, so I've been doing

it for a couple of years now as

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a, as a trainer, adding havening

to existing doing in the past.

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And so that's a bit convoluted how I got

here, but that's the, that's the story.

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that's, how I got to be involved

in havening on a regular basis.

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And it's my primary focus

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Sal Jefferies: Thank you.

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That's really, really interesting.

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I'm intrigued by your sort of

skepticism as well, because

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certain practices there's many practices

in the world for all sorts of, needs

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modalities and, and yes, sometimes

things can sound too good to be true.

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I had an old friend that used to say

like, you know, always, if you're going

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to experience something in life, try to

experience it, suspend judgment you've

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experienced it and then you'll know.

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And I, and I really I've always

taken that sort of premise

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forward and it's intriguing.

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Well, I'll make a point.

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trauma is something I've worked with

both from my psychotherapeutic origins.

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it's in my, with friends

and people I know.

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So I understand that trauma is,

there's layers of trauma and

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levels of it, but it's, it's tough

and it's, and it's difficult.

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So if, if, um, if you're listening and

this is a little triggering for you,

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obviously just be mindful to be okay with

this and choose whether this is right.

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But Mark and I will obviously

aim to hold the space safely.

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Um, yeah.

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And I'm really interested because you

mentioned to me about conflict management

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and, And the scary stuff which when I

think about something like havening and,

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healing and that loveliness, that healing

a person, that's wonderful, isn't it?

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But when you mention about

violence and, conflict management,

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that's the scary stuff.

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And

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it piqued my interest because I did a

course a while back with a company called

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Pilgrims with their own setup in a village

where we went through hostage training.

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And it

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was for overseas people like

journalists and foreign officials.

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I was fortunate enough to

join them for various reasons.

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And it was I think three days

of training where we were put

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through literally Hostile ambushes,

explosions really intimidating stuff.

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And I understand that some of the work

you've done, what intrigues me is how an

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individual like you has got that field,

like, you know, that's a scary place.

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That almost warfare style, violent place.

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And yet now you're blending into

the haven in the healing space.

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How do you manage that?

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how have you, not manage, I would

say, perhaps I'm intrigued about

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how do you bring the skills and

understanding from both of those spaces?

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to, to work and

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to help people.

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Mark Wingfield: That's a

really good question, I think

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that's my opening into Haven.

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That's how I started empathise

and understand about people

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who had been traumatised.

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I consider myself very lucky in

that I don't believe, That I've

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had any really severe trauma But I

know many, many people that have.

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And sometimes they wouldn't

class it as trauma, it's just,

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well, that's how I grew up.

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Well, quite traumatic.

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Environments can We talk about the

landscape of the brain within Havening,

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that has a huge impact on whether somebody

will be traumatised, and whether somebody

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else will not be, even though two people.

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Observe or experience exactly the same

thing, but I, I saw people in my work

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dealing with aggression and violence

who not in a we, we worked and still

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work frontline staff who've assaulted,

whether that's verbal or physical.

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And in fact, my very first.

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Commercial application of Havening I

happened to know the managing director

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of a railway And he said, Oh, I wonder

if you can help this sexually in the line

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of her serving food and drink on a train.

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I won't get into the detail of

what happened, it happened just

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before she was going on holiday.

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And she left the train, having

endured that experience,

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and she wasn't going back.

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I'm done.

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I can't go back on that train.

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I'll be in the same place, same

day, every day, if I go back.

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And she was going off for two

weeks holiday, and the company

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contacted me and said, Look, this

lady's had this awful experience.

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Can you help her?

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I said, I don't know.

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the circumstances.

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I'm very happy to talk to the

lady if she'll allow me to.

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And we had an initial telephone call.

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And I explained my background,

what I intended And whether she

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wanted to the phone, or on Zoom, Or

whether she'd like me me that brief

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that they were happy to fund it.

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So, she said no, I'd

rather do it in person.

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So, I said okay.

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So I went up to Hull, where she was based.

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And, got a private office, and she'd

come in, especially on a holiday,

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know, she seemed fine on the outside,

and then we started talking, and

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I saw the police report, and, not

very nice lovely thing about Haven

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is you don't have to talk about it.

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So, I said, tell me as much

as you feel comfortable with.

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She said, well I don't really want

All the details in the police report.

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So I said, okay, let me just read

the police read the police report.

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I thought, I've got enough

said about Looking at How I was

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going to help her explained the

methodology got a permission.

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In fact, I asked for permission.

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I said This is a psychosensory

approach it involves touch.

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Now, I fully understand if you don't want

me coming anywhere near you, particularly

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based on what you've just been through.

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Strangely, she actually allowed me to, but

the touch is only on the shoulders, the

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arms, the face, So it's not intrusive, but

you do need to seek And, so I, she allowed

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me to apply it to the arms and shoulders.

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And, within 40 minutes, The

emotional stress And looking at me

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kind of, what, What have you done?

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Has it really gone?

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And, I said, yeah, it's

a permanent process.

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It's a biological change

that we've affected here.

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You and me.

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And she was grinning from

ear to Well, I love my job.

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That means I can go back to my job.

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That's fantastic.

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So, That was brilliant in the first

place, but I looked on my watch, I

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thought, well, this only took I've

come all the way from to Hull, and the

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company's paid me to do this, a bit

more time yet, and I said this to her,

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I said, look, you know, the company's

very kindly funded is there anything

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else we can help you said, Oh, know.

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What, what, what do you mean?

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I said, well, for example, this

works really well on phobias.

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Cause phobias are I said, Oh,

well, I've got a couple of Okay.

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I'm a bit embarrassed.

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a clown okay.

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Oh, and an ant phobia.

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Right.

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Not combined.

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Didn't happen at the same time.

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No, no, no.

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They're quite separate.

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Important to check.

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Anyway.

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So, We worked on the clown phobia

and cleared that very quickly

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because it was based on some scary

films that she'd seen as a child.

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And that was Event Havening,

just like incident on the train.

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If it's event based, one off, not

associated with other things, it's

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relatively easy and quick to Permanently.

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And then the Ant Phobia is when

she was a little girl, she was

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in the woods, and she was playing

with some friends, laid her head...

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got covered to lie on an that started it

So again, that was cleared really quickly,

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and so within a short space of time very

happy and she said, oh, are we done then?

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Say well, I'm very happy to

work with you any further.

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Is there anything you'd like to

work on in terms of development?

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Because Haveny is brilliant for trauma

and nasty stuff, but it's also wonderful

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to Build resilience to build capability

and there's a whole other side to

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Havenick which isn't talked about

that much but is just as very useful.

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In fact, half the people I train

as practitioners from the coaching

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world rather than the trauma Anyway,

so I did a few bits and pieces but

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not really that much after that.

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She was very happy, she kind of

skipped out of the office and The

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health and safety manager looking

shocked, She's just given me a hug.

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She never gives What have you been doing?

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So I said, well, all with her

permission, I did this, blah, blah, blah.

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he said, I've never seen her

like So I said, well, you know,

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that's kind of what happens.

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And he sat down and said, we need to talk.

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can never let this happen ever again to

our staff, and that's when we sat down

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and talked about training all of and

that's what we so that their assaults

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dropped from a very high unacceptable

level to three assaults, these are

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verbal assaults, in 180, 000 journeys.

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And he's the health and safety

guy, he measured it meticulously.

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Also encouraged people to

report things they might just

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think minor, you know, you...

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expletives here, but just you, whatever,

that would be shouted across the gate

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line carriage, that sort of stuff, that

would be recorded as a verbal assault.

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three and And, so that was wonderful.

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And the, the HR lady what's,

been to come back to work.

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saying she didn't want

to And we were pleased.

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Delighted, but we're kind of,

we didn't expect it to be this

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So, that's what Havening can do.

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and it was a lovely blend, it kind of

mirrors going back to what I was saying

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earlier about how you can help somebody

nasty, violent in this instance situation

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and just help them grow, lose stuff

that's happened in the past and move on.

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In fact, the book that started this all,

which was written by a guy called Dr.

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Ron is called When the

Past is Always Present.

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And it's all about causes of

traumatisation, and you learn

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how traumatisation a trauma

therapist, practitioner.

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And then how you, and, and the

encoding process that's with

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you for life to protect you.

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And then you learn how, the biology

of that, and how with Havening,

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reverse the encoding process.

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Now, if it's Event Havening,

it's pretty straightforward.

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If it's far more complicated, and

you talked about layers earlier,

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and I often refer to it as layers of

an onion, you take away something.

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got some relief.

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Ooh, something underpinning that.

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Ooh, okay, let's get rid of that one.

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And, you know, if it's very complex,

like complex PTSD, for then it'll

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take a lot longer, but it's still

remarkably quick most approaches.

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So, yeah,

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Sal Jefferies: Not at all.

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That's intriguing.

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Absolutely intriguing.

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And I'm wondering if you could

go just a little into the science

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because I, I a certain amount.

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I don't know where we were, what,

how we're going to scale it but you

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know, how neural states as in fight,

flight, flow, freeze, or shut down

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the different nervous system states.

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Um, as you know, I mentioned I'm a

breathwork, practitioner teacher.

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a, great mediator of emotional

regulation for a lot of people.

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And it's something I, I really you

know, teach with my coaching clients

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and people are just like, even the

basics, just get the basics right.

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But I'd love you to say a little

more about the kind of the science

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of, of, of how that might happen.

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So you mentioned touch, you mentioned the

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You might touch the sort of shoulder

area of a person and the outer

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arm area and perhaps the palms.

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now I know a lot about the hands.

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There's, there's more,

neural stimulation, i.

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e.

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there's more nerves in your

hands, and lips and tongue

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than anywhere else in the body.

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So it's called the word, homoculus,

but it's part of the brain.

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It's all this coding.

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So hands are very powerful.

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we have a lot of sense in our hands, but

certainly as a, uh, as an experiencer or

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as practitioner, so tell me, can you say

a little more about how, if, if I was,

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if I was like, oh, I've got this problem,

and I hear you can help with that, how

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would a contact point of the shoulder or a

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contact point of the arm, how does, what's

the science that you have around that?

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How does that actually work?

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Mark Wingfield: Okay, probably useful

to take a step backwards actually before

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we get to that talk about how, just so

that a listener can understand there

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is proper science because when we are

traumatized in the first there are things

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called gamma waves that are present all

the time as brain waves, there are lots

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of different types of brain but gamma

wave will be the predominant Brain Wave

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Type at Time of a very, very fast, high

frequency Up to 100 waves per second.

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something awful's happened.

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I need all my resources to do something

about And your brain's going into multi,

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just working very, very hard to try

and When you that Brainwave operating.

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have not only glutamate critical,

part of the equation but because

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there is this gamma wave operating

at per second, very, I'll keep this

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very it causes an oscillation at

that speed calcium, and I won't go

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through all the detail here because

we don't have like to show pictures

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and so on when we're doing it as well.

377

But essentially, at that very high

oscillation, there's a number of

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consequences with And, very simply

and crudely put, you have receptors,

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AMPA receptors now go onto the

postsynaptic surface of the neuron.

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within the amygdala, the

emotional center of the brain.

381

And these are fixed for life with

a kind of biological superglue.

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Ready to protect you in the future.

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So whatever got you out of that

scrape, whatever you needed to

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do to get out of it, and be safe,

it's now there as pre programmed.

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This is what you do as your if

something like this ever happens again.

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So any triggers that were there at the

time of traumatization, Sounds, sights,

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smells, touch, all these different

things, maybe even colours, shapes.

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bit like a phobia, you see a little

shape running across the floor, you

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think, Oh, a spider, or whatever it

might be, that, that terrifies you.

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You automatically go, shift.

391

You don't think about it Your, amygdala

is working for you, just slightly

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faster than the cognitive function.

393

I'm making you driving that so

that, that's, that's traumatization.

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What happens the touch that you is

that when you touch in a certain

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way, at certain points on the you

generate something called a delta So

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we talked about gamma waves before,

with this very high frequency, up to

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100 cycles The delta wave is slower.

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It's very soothing, it's pop.

399

0.

400

4 to up to 5 5 cycles

per second, not the 100.

401

Very calming, people I'm sure will

relate to delta waves that you sleep.

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It's not when you were dreaming,

deep sleep where basically re

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sorting the mental filing cabinets.

404

We're replenishing, we're recuperating

from the day, and we're getting

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ready for the And interestingly,

delta waves were the predominant

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brain wave when we were children.

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When we're learning, soaking up

all this stuff that's And that

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dropped dramatically after our

So, we are generating delta waves.

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You and I, right now, we're

generating delta waves.

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But not many.

411

It'd be very low level.

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However, suddenly if we start, you

can probably hear on the microphone

413

I'm stroking my arms, shoulders.

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We suddenly start.

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Generating Kind of artificially,

but we're doing them.

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And it feels nice!

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If you had...

418

If you were a little boy...

419

And you fell over, Sal, many years ago...

420

You might have had a kindly

friend or relative...

421

Pick you up, dust you down, go...

422

There there, Sal, you'll Just

stroke your arm and shoulder and

423

you'll be you very delta waves...

424

Which are immediately soothing...

425

And...

426

Again, crudely put, sending a

signal that everything's okay.

427

You're in this safe haven,

name Havening came from.

428

The same thing happens, what do

we do when we rub our We feel

429

a soothing, calming feeling.

430

That's the delta And you're absolutely

right, loads and loads of receptors

431

there are some skin type C receptors

that have been found only very recently.

432

And that's helped pinpoint

the research areas to go to.

433

Another area is the cheeks of the face.

434

I'm now stroking the cheeks of my face.

435

You can go under the eyes,

you can do the forehead.

436

And those three areas are

just, we've known for millennia

437

that they are soothing areas.

438

So, I'm not going to do it because

I've got my headphones on, but I

439

often demonstrate by going, Oh my

goodness, and stroking my face.

440

And that's what people do

when they're really stressed.

441

Ooh, it's a self soother.

442

When we, when we rub our chin like

this, you know, we're considering

443

things or maybe not too sure about this.

444

It's a self soother.

445

There's a reason why we do it.

446

It's a natural So not only do you have

this nice soothing feeling, but the touch

447

that's, that you're doing is changing the

whole So before I talked about, glutamate

448

appearing, well, glutamate's still

there, and calcium, that's still there.

449

But because you've got this much other

neurotransmitters, and people will

450

recognize words like serotonin they're

just some of people recognize, now come

451

to the equation, and again, very crudely

that combination of, that cocktail of

452

chemicals, cause a different chain And

this time instead of a super glue being

453

applied to receptors that say, Ooh, Ooh,

this happened before you need to do this.

454

There's kind of a biological

super glue remover.

455

That's takes away glue that

held those receptors together

456

so the receptors get recycled.

457

And you lose the.

458

What could be the way you think about it.

459

The way your body reacts, so

autonomically, so you're, you're

460

breathing, you're blushing, a stammer

of some kind, maybe, And any other

461

somatosensory feelings, so pains, aches,

posture, might be linked you feel about

462

something or when something occurs.

463

And, and the emotional side.

464

So you, you have different

outcomes, which are much more

465

pleasant, and much more natural.

466

Rather than being, that kind So, that,

that's why the touch is so important.

467

And I've done, I've done

demonstrations before now.

468

Where, I've had a, on Zoom,

I remember it vividly.

469

I did a demonstration for And

there was must have been about

470

six ladies in this group.

471

And I said, by the way, we're

all going to get a go to try this

472

out and feel how soothing it is.

473

And just work on a minor worry or anxiety,

nothing, nothing majorly traumatic,

474

And you must do the Havening Touch.

475

Otherwise it will not work.

476

Okay, great.

477

We did the exercise and four out of

the six said, Oh, it's brilliant.

478

Fantastic, that was really good.

479

Terms didn't make any difference to me.

480

And I was watching them.

481

And I said, well, I did say that you need

to apply Havening Touch all the time.

482

You two ladies didn't.

483

And as a result, it will not work.

484

You can talk about it

until the cows come home.

485

Unless you actually apply, it won't work.

486

So, I did a demonstration

earlier this week.

487

We think about 26 people in all

of them Got relief from whatever

488

is they brought and they didn't

have to tell me what it was.

489

I just said you must follow, please,

when I ask you to, just the touch and

490

follow what I do distractions and so on.

491

And, you know, let's see where you are.

492

So I asked them for what we call a

subjective unit of distress before.

493

So you think about something

distressing right now.

494

And then after we've done this, we

only did it for about five What's

495

your subjective unit of distress now?

496

Put it in the chat.

497

And we'll compare it.

498

I'm just looking around on my desk

because I did have a piece of paper

499

with all the numbers on, but anyway.

500

They all went down.

501

Some went down from an 8 to a 6,

some went from a 0, some went from

502

a 5 to a 4, but they all went down.

503

Some things are far more And, but it's

just a lovely thing to be able to do.

504

And these people now know

what we call self havening.

505

So you can...

506

Immediately downregulate if you're worried

about something, whatever it might be,

507

because we're working on the amygdala,

the emotional center of the brain.

508

Havening is beautiful in that you don't

have to have been severely You can

509

use it just to, bit worried about that

exam that's gone out on that night out,

510

that horrible boy, I don't just a bit

concerned hope she doesn't drink too

511

Whatever it might be, if you're worried

about somebody who's been going through

512

COVID it's not very well for some other

so many things you can work on just to

513

just one of my practitioners earlier

this they are going quite a horrible

514

situation personally that's just happened.

515

And they said, we know we can do self

having on her husband trained with me

516

as well, we just want to do it with

get rid be able to function at the

517

moment know, we're downregulated a

bit ourselves, really be able to cope.

518

We're not coping so anyway,

again, I'm rambling now, so.

519

Hopefully that gives you a bit

520

Sal Jefferies: Yeah,

that's really helpful.

521

And I'm just kind of processing

in my mind about that encoding.

522

I remember doing work and training around

what's called timeline therapy years ago

523

and various things obviously, I

mentioned you, I'm a yoga teacher

524

and what I see with a lot of, let's

say, I mean, we use the word trauma.

525

I'm just going to sort I mean we've,

we've mentioned there's often two

526

types of trauma to loosely put it.

527

There's capital T trauma, which could

be something like, you know, extreme

528

violence attacks could be, you know, a

horrible accident, something like that.

529

And then small t trauma, which is maybe

things like you didn't get seen so much

530

by your parents when you were younger

or at school, there was kind of, you

531

were not really part of, the group.

532

But what happens with small t trauma,

it's more surreptitious, I see.

533

It's a, A lot of people, myself

included, didn't really see that

534

big a deal, like, well, it wasn't

that bad, but actually there's this

535

layering and it's a bit because

it's layered and it keeps happening

536

that can affect us in a way as well.

537

And I think if we go beyond the word into

the experience that I've got something

538

stuck, I'm stuck in a state and I'm

triggered by a certain set of conditions.

539

And I would like to be free of that.

540

I think is if we take all the names and

perhaps the descriptions, that's how I see

541

a lot of this stuckness, you know, whether

it be, you know, the really extreme

542

trauma, a subtle trauma, or we just are

over amped, you know, that amygdala is

543

firing like crazy.

544

Like it's so amplified, it's so reactive

and One thing I've noticed is that a

545

lot of people were saying, Oh, there's

a lot of anxiety around right now.

546

Well, there was a world changing

pandemic, you know, literally

547

destabilizing everything from health

548

to money to businesses.

549

and there's a knock on

effect to that stuff.

550

And sometimes it's post traumatic, trauma.

551

Sometimes there's post traumatic growth,

which is another interesting field,

552

but either way we wonderful

humans, we are adaption machines.

553

We adapt to the environment.

554

Whether that's, you know the

environment of the house or the

555

business or the world around us and

that adaption may or may not be helpful.

556

You know, sometimes it's a

helpful, like a growth adaption

557

and sometimes it's more of a

stuck, like fear based adaption.

558

And I'm really intrigued how

559

Mark Wingfield: Based on what you've

560

Sal Jefferies: yeah, what you said there

about how that sort of encodes and like

561

how we can sort of let's say, loosen that

encoding and re retrain the system, so to

562

speak, which really, really fascinating.

563

actually know it.

564

This is an area where I'm just more

in the, I'm more in the listener space

565

rather than, adding a lot of the content.

566

I, I asked you before we started

recording, I'd like to be a client.

567

I'd like to experience this on

568

a

569

simple level and for our listener

if you want to join us and that

570

it's safe for you to do so.

571

Please do.

572

Remember, mind your own boundaries.

573

If it isn't, and you just want to kind

of listen in, please do, but I'm going to

574

be a client, uh, and Mark, I'd love you

to take me through a very simple, perhaps

575

demonstration that I can experience.

576

And if, if our listener

wants to join us as

577

well, they certainly can come along.

578

Would that be okay?

579

Mark Wingfield: course, yeah.

580

And I'll just re emphasise what

you just said making it safe.

581

Please don't work on because this

a minor worry or anxiety, just as I

582

relative, that type so what I ask people

to do, and I'll ask you to do this

583

some as well, is just concentrate on

how whatever it is that bothers you,

584

and you don't have to tell me, how it

makes you if it helps to close your eyes

585

and and if there's any feeling in your

body that expresses tightness in the

586

throat or the chest just focus on that.

587

anything maybe it's a recent

event, if you focus what happened

588

pull together the sights, sounds,

589

Sal Jefferies: Yes, I've got a

feeling and I, it's kind of for

590

me physically, it's happening in

the lower belly, lower abdomen.

591

It's activity going on there.

592

There's a little bit of.

593

activity coming up to my throat area.

594

I'm just going to describe the sensations.

595

it's, it's, yeah, it's a tightening sense.

596

There's a sort of a closing in sense.

597

as I

598

check back in with this.

599

Mark Wingfield: thank you.

600

And, on a score of naught to ten,

where ten is really horrendous,

601

zero you, where would you put your

602

Sal Jefferies: It's about five.

603

It's, it's kind of, it's, it's, it's

not nice, but it's, it's not that bad.

604

So obviously I've chosen something

which isn't, as you've already,

605

carefully guided saying nothing too,

too deep, uh, but yeah, it's kind of,

606

it's an uncomfortable situation and

it's, yeah, my body's responding, to

607

that

608

Mark Wingfield: great,

thanks for doing that.

609

And, You choose whichever Havening Touch

you, you prefer, whether it's the, the

610

shoulders, the face, the hands, and

just, just start applying that now if

611

you would, and just clear your mind, and

I want you to go to your favourite place

612

in the world, Sal, where would that be?

613

Sal Jefferies: Good question.

614

I'll probably make you

615

chuckle, but it's often the gym.

616

That's quite an animated place.

617

In terms of a relaxed place, I'd

probably say by the beach early morning

618

when it's really calm and still.

619

Mark Wingfield: Okay,

so where, where's the

620

Sal Jefferies: It's near

me, yeah, in Brighton.

621

Mark Wingfield: Ah, okay, so

it's a pebbly beach, because

622

I've been on the rotten beach.

623

I want you to imagine that

you're on the beach now.

624

And you're walking along and you

hear the crunch of the pebbles, hear

625

the waves you look out to the sea,

tell me what you would see on a, on

626

a typical morning, let's say it's a

beautiful sunny you're only out there

627

Sal Jefferies: yeah.

628

It'd be early and, very few people around.

629

Maybe tiny bit of cloud in the distance,

a little animated cloud structure.

630

a lot of space, a lot of plasterly

light because it's early.

631

and

632

yeah it's the sound that gentle sound

of the waves just gently lapping.

633

Mark Wingfield: and what

kind of smells are there?

634

Sal Jefferies: slightly salt air

Got bit of the organic matter

635

of the fish perhaps, just a

636

small amount.

637

But Yeah, there's also a breeze.

638

Mark Wingfield: Yeah?

639

it's a light breeze on your capture

that as you're walking along, and

640

each step that you're taking, hearing

those crunching pebbles, little

641

bit getting rid of any tension

that still throat in your belly.

642

Just let light lovely thing to looking

out to sea, safe, calmed your mind's eye.

643

What can

644

Sal Jefferies: Let's see my

645

Mark Wingfield: Ah, okay,

what kind of dog have you

646

Sal Jefferies: got?

647

two.

648

I've got a Cocker Spaniel and a

649

Pointer.

650

Mark Wingfield: Lovely.

651

What are their names?

652

Sal Jefferies: Chester and Hugo.

653

Mark Wingfield: and so

what do Chester and Hugo

654

Sal Jefferies: Running around.

655

Scampering

656

Mark Wingfield: probably

quite a racket on the pebbles.

657

Sal Jefferies: not too much.

658

Sometimes,

659

Mark Wingfield: And do they bark

660

Sal Jefferies: yeah.

661

Hmm.

662

Mark Wingfield: having fun together.

663

They play together nicely.

664

So today they're playing together

really nicely and, just feel the joy

665

of seeing them playing being in that

safe space, feeling really comfortable

666

take a little just If you were to

go back to thinking and whatever

667

you gave me a five you still at the

668

Sal Jefferies: No it

seems like a three now.

669

Two, three.

670

Yeah, it's definitely a, an easing.

671

Yeah, easing

672

down.

673

Mark Wingfield: And

that was, that was a few

674

minutes.

675

Sal Jefferies: Hehehe,

676

Mark Wingfield: clearly, if we were

doing a one to one, be finding out a lot

677

more information about you background

and what we're looking to work on.

678

But that's something that I do, which is

very People come on to an intro as I do.

679

I do these at It's free of charge.

680

People come along and they just

get to experience try things

681

out before pre judging, saying

this is just a load of rubbish.

682

Well, you can call it a load of rubbish

if it doesn't work for you, but it

683

Sal Jefferies: Yeah

684

Mark Wingfield: Because it's a natural

biochemical change to our you work with

685

a certified practitioner, They how to

reverse the And they've gone a rigorous

686

process of learning how to do that.

687

So that, you they are in a

good place to help you very

688

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, yeah.

689

Mark Wingfield: compared to

anything that's some will be.

690

Some will be hugely experienced

psychotherapists, some will be,

691

great coaches, others will be

oddballs like me a, slightly

692

Sal Jefferies: Thank you.

693

So, yeah, the listener,

694

if you've joined us with that

I hope you're feeling good and

695

that your own experience, uh, to

share mine, it was intriguing.

696

Just, I was using the outer arm touch,

quite a gentle, I'm wearing a t shirt

697

so I could feel my hands on the on

the sort of skin of the upper arm.

698

yeah, and there's a, there was a

natural, For me, it felt very embodied.

699

I'm lucky because I will perhaps I

do, I am embodied and I have worked

700

with people that literally have got

no connection to their body because

701

of things like a trauma event.

702

So there are, you know, nuances to this,

but my experience, which I think it's

703

just important to share was, was, To bring

the visual and the physical together.

704

That was my takeaway.

705

I really found that helpful and very

useful to have a very visual experience.

706

One that you guided nicely and

an elegant way into a happy

707

space and to have that feeling.

708

as opposed to only using perhaps a

visualization, which was, which of

709

course is, you're already explaining

to us that that's the havening process.

710

And it kind of made me think

what you mentioned about if I was

711

a kid And you know, maybe fell

over and someone picked you up.

712

And it's funny, isn't it How we, we, seem

to have lost contact with the humanity,

713

the natural state, the things that is

utterly imbued in us as human beings.

714

because it's not okay to, you know, touch

someone or, if you, if your family has a

715

Victorian line, you might've got a pat on

the head or something like They're there,

716

you know, that natural, physical touch

between human to human or from yourself.

717

and the

718

impact that your encoding system

does, whether that's positive

719

or negative, it's fascinating.

720

So thank you for

721

taking us through that that exercise.

722

I feel very calm and very chilled now.

723

It's lovely.

724

Mark Wingfield: Good.

725

I'd just like to throw in, if I

may, just to add to that, that some

726

people do struggle with visual And

we've got other ways of doing it.

727

So if people are thinking, well that

didn't work can't do visual People

728

tend to be in the minority But we

just access it in different ways

729

and we do different distractions.

730

distractions are only one I've taken you

through it again, that's Event Havening.

731

That I've just done.

732

listening, simply use self but

there are so many, there are

733

ten different types of train.

734

event is just the easiest,

we always start there,

735

Sal Jefferies: yeah,

lovely, really lovely.

736

Well, we started off the show kind

of saying about how we can touch

737

on some of the difficult stuff that

happens to people in life, you know,

738

from anxiety to anguish to trauma.

739

and these are big fields and I don't know,

Mark, you've, you've been very sensitive.

740

I too, we just want to echo the.

741

Sometimes life is tough and bad

things happen and that's really hard.

742

So I guess the, the sentiment here

is there are different practices.

743

There are different processes where you

can reach out to, you can find out about

744

and Havening being one of them as a way to

Heal, to grow, to, grow, beyond the pain.

745

I heard a lovely phrase once and I'm

afraid I can't say it's author because

746

I can't remember, but they said,

you know, really good growth work,

747

whether it's therapeutic coaching,

it doesn't matter, is to grow far

748

bigger than the problem ever was.

749

And love that.

750

That's a really powerful statement.

751

And so I I hope, dear listeners, that

if you've got a challenge, if you've got

752

some, some stuff that's stuck, that this

gives you an opening to start reaching

753

out, whichever way you want to reach out.

754

This is one way.

755

Uh, but of course we'll leave details

for Mark's, contact about Havening

756

and, and how you can learn more,

uh, in the show notes, of course.

757

So people can reach out

to you directly and learn.

758

Um, that'll be really interesting.

759

Wow.

760

So I've learned myself.

761

I was quiet on this episode.

762

Normally I'm quite a conversationist

as part of our, of the podcast.

763

Uh, but today I was kind of sitting

back and just taking on board this,

764

this process, which I don't know about.

765

And I'm, and I'm really,

you know, I'm very lucky.

766

I've learned something today.

767

I always love learning.

768

So thank you, Mark, for sharing

your experience, your history

769

you've come to this process.

770

Um, and it's wonderful.

771

It sounds a really lovely process

that can be applied at different

772

levels of intensity for different

practitioners, both self, Okay.

773

and professional.

774

So it's lovely to learn about that

and I really thank you for your time.

775

So dear listener, I trust, as

always, that you've gleaned and taken

776

something from that that's going to be

helpful for you and take it further.

777

Whatever you need, take it further

and, and hope you heal and hope you

778

have a flourishing rest of your day.

779

Mark, thank you, dear listener, thank you.

780

I'll speak to

781

you on the next one.

782

Mark Wingfield: Thanks, Sal.

783

Sal Jefferies: Thank you

so much for listening.

784

If you enjoyed the episode,

please subscribe and if a friend

785

would benefit from hearing this,

do send it on to them as well.

786

If you would like to get in touch

yourself, then you can go to my website,

787

which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S

A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com.

788

Hit the get in touch link and there

you can send me a direct message.

789

If you'd like to go one step further

and learn whether coaching could help

790

you overcome a challenge or a block

in your life, then do reach out and

791

I offer a call where we can discuss

how this may be able to help you.

792

Until the next time, take care.