Harry Lyles is an accomplished multi-format programmer and is widely recognized as the foremost expert in all forms of Hip Hop, R&B, Rhythmic, Rhythmic AC and Gospel.

As president of Lyles Media, Harry has been the programming partner for some of the most prominent broadcasting and media companies in the business. He’s well known for positioning companies for expansion and rapid development while helping broadcasters understand a better ratings story to help generate more revenue.

Harry’s standout programming career is marked by cutting-edge strategies, stellar brand-building skills, and achieving and sustaining market share by building inspired station teams. When programming connects with your local audience,  ratings and revenue will follow.

In this episode, Harry shares insights to help radio people UP THEIR GAME for 2022, by focusing on some of the basics sorely overlooked in our era of consolidation,

Key Takeaways You Won't Want to Miss

[01:58] Harry discusses the very first signs he looks for to see whether a radio station is likely to succeed or not, and what to do about it.

[04:02] Breaking some complex concepts into bite-sized doses, Harry offers some pointers from his Radio Ratings Problem Solving Method, and how “A Self Reflection” can be a good, easy and free starting point for anyone.

[08:59] Harry reminds us of what Radio's first job should be, and provides some pointers on how to make sure your station is doing it. (Spoiler: Many are not!)

[11:04] As a radio veteran who works with many stations in a wide variety of markets, Harry is consistently baffled by one key thing most broadcasters don't do. He shares how it can happen, and reminds us of a secret that will correct this and grow your career!

Read Dave Martin's ONE-MINUTE MARTIZING on "INTENTION" HERE

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YES! Send me the free SHOW NOTES preview email

What happened?

2

Why did this happen?

3

Is this going to be a revolution of

change or an evolution of change?

4

Welcome to Brand With On Demand,

your guide to rebooting radio.

5

One of the things I've noticed through

the years is that a lot of program

6

directors have a tendency to take

their hands off the steering wheel.

7

And when you take your hands

off the steering wheel, Fades.

8

Yeah.

9

Fades will happen.

10

Okay.

11

Yeah,

12

VO: BRANDwidth on Demand.

13

Rebooting radio with a different

take on all radio can be.

14

Now your guides through the metamorphosis.

15

David Martin and author of

the book, BRANDwidth, Media

16

Branding, coach Kipper McGee.

17

Dave: Harry lyles is an accomplished

multi format programmer.

18

He's widely recognized as the foremost

expert in all forms of hip hop, R&

19

B, rhythmic, rhythmic AC, and gospel.

20

He covers the base.

21

As president of Lyles Media, Harry has

been the programming partner for some

22

of the most prominent broadcasting

and media companies in the business.

23

He's been named to the National Black

Radio Hall of Fame and is well known.

24

We're positioning companies for expansion

and rapid development while helping

25

broadcasters understand a better rating

story to help generate a better revenue.

26

Harry's standout programming career is

marked by cutting edge strategy, stellar

27

brand building skills, and achieving

and sustaining, most important, market

28

share by building inspired station teams.

29

When programming concepts with your local

audience happen and ratings and revenue

30

follow, It's all about hiring Harry.

31

That's what we say.

32

And he's with us today

on Branded on Demand.

33

We're proud to welcome the

one and only Harry Lyles.

34

Harry: Glad to be here, guys.

35

Thanks a lot.

36

Kipper: Well, we are so

glad you're here, Harry.

37

Harry: Thanks.

38

Kipper: So, first question.

39

You've been doing this for a while.

40

You're advising a lot of

different stations and companies.

41

So, when you first walk into a

radio station, what do you look for?

42

And how can you tell if they're

probably doing okay, or if they're

43

gonna need a lot of your attention?

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Harry: Great question.

45

The first thing I do, I have a one

page questionnaire that I send in.

46

And that questionnaire is Is basically

asking them, what is your objective

47

for the format or vision of the format?

48

And of course, when you do that, you want

to make sure that they have some kind

49

of an understanding of the demographics

that they're going to go after.

50

The music that should be played for that

demographic, have a conversation with

51

them about talent, have a conversation

with them about their special programming,

52

contest and promotion, and also

community affairs and social media.

53

But what's the foundation of any great

radio station is going to be the music.

54

I have learned through the years,

if you can get those two things tied

55

together and let them work together,

you're probably going to have

56

yourself a pretty good radio station.

57

I think one of the things, guys,

that happens today, I've noticed

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there in some of the projects that

I've done with clients and non

59

clients, that there's a disconnect.

60

And a lot of people want to

say, well, It's a PPM situation.

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Disconnect.

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I disagree with that.

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And when I look at the Nielsen PPM

numbers, I see a consistency from

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large, medium to small markets.

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So when I first go in, it's important

for me to do one thing, ask questions

66

and then help them put those pieces

together to help them move forward

67

and meet that objective or vision

that they have for the station.

68

And it's not hard.

69

Again, it's the basics.

70

That are gonna take to do one thing and

that's score in something called Nielsen.

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Yeah.

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Dave: Yeah, one of the great things we've

noticed about your method, Harry, is you

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have an uncanny ability to break things

down into little bite sized pieces.

74

We were intrigued by your very

special radio ratings problem solving

75

method, which starts with what you

call a self reflection, can you?

76

Expand on that for

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Harry: us.

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Yeah, one of the things that I've noticed

from station to station to station, the in

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house situation is a little bit different.

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Even sometimes, guys, when I ask a

program director, operations manager, or

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general manager, well, what do you like

about your, especially if, maybe the

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station's, you know, off a little bit, or

they think that it's off a little bit and

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they think that they're having problems.

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One of the questions I like to ask well,

okay, you think you have a problem, but is

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there anything here that you would keep?

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Because I think that's a

very important question.

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We can sit here and self reflect

on all the elements and everything

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that ties a radio station together.

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But one of the things that I've noticed

through the years is that a lot of

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program directors have a tendency to

take their hands off the steering wheel.

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And when you take your hands

off the steering wheel,

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things, things will happen.

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Okay?

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Yeah, so all of a sudden the

impact that was there, I just

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did a project two weeks ago.

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For a very large size market that used to

be a dominant station, and they're now in

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the threes, but it was all self inflicted.

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In other words, musically,

they have a problem.

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They have a talent issue.

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They haven't done any contest

and promotion in over two years.

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They downgraded their morning,

their legendary morning guy left.

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And here's what happened.

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Instead of hiring his equal

or upgrading, they downgraded.

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And the morning show has now lost

70 percent of their audience.

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My point being that didn't have

to happen, but it happened.

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Now, can you fix that?

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Well, you know, when it comes to the

self reflection of looking at what a

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radio station is doing from a talent

standpoint, that's a mistake you really

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want to avoid making if all possible.

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I want to share something with you guys

because I remember when, when the Patriots

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won the Super, the last Super Bowl here

in Atlanta on the CBS morning news.

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They had Bob Kraft and they were talking

about to Bob Kraft, like, why are you, why

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are the Patriots so consistent in winning

and you've been to the Super Bowl the

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past 10, 15 years, more so than anybody

else, I never will forget his response.

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Here's what he said.

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It doesn't matter if it's on the

offensive side of the ball or

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the defensive side of the ball.

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Every time we have to replace a

player, if we don't re sign one,

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we upgrade that side of the ball.

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Hey guys, that's, that's what

we should do in radio, okay?

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But that doesn't always happen.

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When it comes to self reflecting, a lot

of times, in, look, it, it, it starts

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right there inside that radio station.

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The ones who are closest to it.

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Should be able to figure out what's

happening, but again, when you

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take your hands off the steering

wheel, she will go off the road.

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So the self reflecting part

and the most important part

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of this is asking questions.

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What happened?

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Why did this happen?

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Is this going to be a revolution of

change or an evolution of change?

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And usually, guys, it gets down to either

an evolution or a revolution of change.

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When there's a ratings problem.

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And

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Kipper: hopefully not dropping our

salary cap any more than we have to, huh?

136

Harry: That's right.

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Right.

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See, the thing is this.

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I'm amazed at some people who are

confused about their objective.

140

I've run into a couple of situations

where you still have some general

141

managers and program directors

and even operations managers.

142

They want, they want to take a format

and be all things to all people.

143

Well, I had some pretty good teachers.

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That's not the way it works.

145

Okay.

146

If you can dominate two demographics,

you can spread yourself out

147

and become a pretty good radio

station, regardless of format.

148

I was just talking to a rock

friend of mine the other day.

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And, uh, he was telling me about

the appeal of his classic hit

150

station, but he knew where the

epicenter of his format was.

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That's the reason why he's successful.

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Great

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Kipper: word.

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And one of the things too, that

you're always talking about is

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really, in addition to knowing who

you're talking to is knowing who

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you've got on board and really.

157

Building that encouraging kind of winning

attitude like Belichick has done, but

158

you want that throughout the station.

159

So question number one is what are

some of the best ways for, say, a

160

new program director to do that?

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And number two, what do you do when like

half your air staff is coming in from

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other markets via voice track or whatever?

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How do you build that winning

thing with people that you

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Harry: never see?

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Well, I'm going to be up front with his,

if you and Dave were clients, Kepper,

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I'm not a fan of voice tracking, right?

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I believe that one of radio's

biggest problems is we have

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taken the companionship.

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Out of the business of radio

and I think listeners are smart.

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I give them credit.

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I can't remember the last time I heard

somebody screaming because of a contest

172

where they won something it needs

to come back Something else again.

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I'm not a huge voice track person I think

one of the things that's happened in radio

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is I consider all day parts important.

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Okay.

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I know some people say well We want

to spend the money in morning and

177

afternoon and we'll kind of Figure

out what to do in the other day.

178

Parts winning radio stations

are consistent in mornings.

179

They're consistent in mid days.

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They're consistent in

afternoons and nights.

181

Okay.

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And it doesn't work any other way.

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There are no shortcuts to this

and I, I have diplomatically had

184

to tell a few people where I did

some projects and they even had

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studies that there are no shortcuts.

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One of the things that when

it comes to program directors.

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And, and, and I don't know why this is

happening and I'm assuming it's a new

188

day, new breed of program director.

189

They don't know their market.

190

They don't read and they don't sit there

and invert the numbers and Nielsen to

191

find out why they're losing audience.

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Even when there's a research study in the

past 8 months, give you just 1 example.

193

I did 2 medium sized markets.

194

They had done a research project.

195

And both program directors

thought that the epicenter of

196

their audience was 18 to 34.

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Well, based on their own in house

research, hey guys, one market,

198

the audience started at 35, and

the other market started at 40.

199

Yeah.

200

And so I pointed out, I said,

here's your problem right here.

201

Yeah.

202

Somebody hasn't read your own study.

203

Bingo.

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But it happens, guys.

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It happens.

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Harry, for

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Dave: somebody just starting out,

maybe in their first or second job,

208

what advice would you give them?

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What suggestions would you have

for them when they're ready

210

to take that next big step?

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Harry: I will use myself as an example.

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For that person that is starting out,

I want them to know that used to be me.

213

And I was lucky.

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I was very lucky.

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I worked for some winning radio stations.

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First off, I worked at...

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Three winning radio stations in my

hometown of Evansville, Indiana.

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Great, great management,

great program directors.

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But again, I want to say this

and I say it respectfully.

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That was a different day in radio.

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Okay, even when my first job was

at a country station in Evansville,

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Indiana, WROZ, Jim Emery, who was the

program director, he came to talk to

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our class, and he offered some of us

to cut an audition, and I did one.

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Great.

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I did one.

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And guess what happened?

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I got a job.

228

Yay.

229

And so, my job was, I got to

run the Ralph Emery show, from

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that, that was on, on disc.

231

So anyway, then Bloomington

Broadcasting bought an old MOR station.

232

And so I applied there, and got the 10 2

position, and worked with two legendary

233

guys that you guys probably know.

234

Jim Wood, who later was the

national guy at Mallwright.

235

Oh yeah.

236

And Buddy Scott, who

worked at, uh, CBN TV.

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Right.

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B96, yeah.

239

You betcha.

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I'll stop right there.

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Meeting those two guys in little

bitty Evansville, Indiana,

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helped me start my career.

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I watched, I asked questions.

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I can remember Buddy and Jim

said, Hey, you're asking too

245

many damn questions, okay?

246

But guys, I did it

because I wanted to know.

247

And again, as Jim explained,

hey, we're a new station.

248

This thing will unfold

the longer you're here.

249

And of course, it was very tight, okay?

250

Mm hmm.

251

And I didn't understand at the

time playing a record every

252

75 minutes at the time, right?

253

Then all of a sudden 75 minutes

went to 90 then 90 went to about 210

254

or 215 Yeah, I was like, oh, okay.

255

So this is part of the chemistry of

what how radio works So for anybody

256

who is beginning I was lucky.

257

There's a lot of fool's gold out there

nowadays, but at the same time, there

258

are still some good broadcasters,

program directors, operations managers

259

and GMs who are interested in teaching

the next generation coming up.

260

I enjoy teaching the next generation.

261

I get to Georgia State at least

three times a year to talk to

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the broadcasting school there.

263

I am noticing something though in the

classroom when I was in Columbus, Miami.

264

St.

265

Louis, Louisville, Columbus,

and Cleveland, and would talk

266

to college students and even

some high school classes.

267

Radios doesn't seem to be as sexy to them.

268

As it was back when I was

in the in the 80s and 90s.

269

Okay.

270

Absolutely.

271

And there's a reason for that.

272

Most of the questions come

about streaming, podcasting.

273

In other words, there's

nothing wrong with that.

274

But it has kind of diluted the

interests of something called radio.

275

Mm hmm.

276

But I don't think that that has to happen.

277

No.

278

And as I've told a couple of my friends.

279

I think that everything that has happened

to radio has been self inflicted by

280

companies who own radio stations.

281

There's a, there's a reason why some

stations are successful and companies

282

are successful and some are not.

283

And again, I'll say it one more time.

284

There are no shortcuts to this.

285

We talked about Bill

Belichick and Robert Kraft.

286

There's a reason why those

guys have been where they are.

287

It's the same thing as I've had

to say to a couple of program

288

directors who are into sports.

289

There's a reason why the Golden State

Warriors have done what they've done.

290

They've got a good coach and they

know how to put a team together.

291

And so when it comes to our team in

radio, I believe, you know, some people

292

say, well, if you can get that morning

engine, that guy, or that, that team in

293

the mornings, good things will happen.

294

What sure it does.

295

I think today we cannot take any

chances in midday afternoons or night.

296

So when you put those.

297

pieces together, and when they are

locked in together, guess what happens?

298

You get attention, the pieces are

working together, and I will tell you

299

this, I think the listeners hear that.

300

I know right here in Atlanta, when

I go to get gas or stop by a quick

301

mart or whatever, and somebody's

got a radio on, I'll ask them, Why

302

are you listening to that station?

303

And usually, nine times out of ten, it's

a station that's a top three, top five.

304

And they're doing a good job at doing one

thing that's satisfying their audience

305

great stuff And guys, it doesn't matter

what format it is as I was talking

306

to a rock friend of mine on the west

coast last week It doesn't matter.

307

You know, the basics are the

basic when the pieces are working

308

together good things happen A

309

Dave: terrific guy.

310

Harry Lyles.

311

Hey, somebody you'd like to hear from.

312

We'd love to hear your suggestions.

313

Email

314

Harry: them to show at brandwithondemand.

315

com.

316

Kipper: And we've got some new

social media platforms to check out.

317

Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn.

318

All you have to do is

look for Brandwith Plus.

319

That's Brandwith P L U S.

320

One word and we look forward to seeing

what you have to say when you're there

321

Dave: coming up Harry share some

opportunities that many including

322

us may find hiding in plain

323

Spot: sight Music master less stress more.

324

Yes.

325

Hi, this is Jerry Butler for the team

at music master One of my favorite

326

tips for classic format programmers

is to use the breakable one day,

327

one hour offset rule for artists.

328

Keywords.

329

It's not just for songs.

330

That way your listeners won't

have the same sampling of

331

artists each time they tune in.

332

And we turn the variety knob

333

Harry: up to 11.

334

Spot: Music master music

scheduling the way it

335

Harry: should be.

336

musicmaster.

337

Spot: com.

338

Kipper: Hey there, Kemper here.

339

So You want to have some great merchandise

for your radio station, but the

340

budget says, uh, we've got a solution.

341

Radio swag shop.

342

It's simple.

343

You select the items, give them your logo.

344

They create a store for you.

345

You link to it, you promote it, and

you sit back and collect the cash.

346

Budget short.

347

Radio Swag Shop is your answer.

348

Just go to radioswagshop.

349

com forward slash kipper.

350

My name, radioswagshop.

351

com forward slash kipper.

352

Your ratings and bottom line will

353

Spot: thank you.

354

Opportunities

355

VO: hidden in plain sight.

356

Bread with on demand.

357

Dave: We are with one of the

best and brightest, Harry Lyles.

358

Harry, thinking about traditional

radio, What's the one opportunity?

359

that you see that many station

people, no matter market size,

360

might find hiding in plain sight.

361

Harry: Well, what's hiding in plain

sight is something that you can hear

362

with your ears, and it's called the

overall essence of the radio station.

363

Once you grasp what your vision,

I'll say it one more time.

364

The vision are the objective of the

station, and you know what's happening.

365

You don't know what's happening, but

you should know what's happening.

366

And some program directors say,

well, I might know what's happening.

367

But the question is, you must know

what's happening for one thing to happen.

368

And that's for that radio

station to do one thing.

369

Have, have listeners and those locals

to wake up with it every morning, get in

370

the car with it, eat breakfast with it.

371

When, again, the station

pieces are connected.

372

From a music standpoint, talent

standpoint, marketing, social media, you

373

create an impact because that's called

engagement and that's what listeners want.

374

Terrific

375

Dave: guy, Kipper.

376

Harry Lyles, links to his websites

and more in the show notes,

377

just scroll down on your phone.

378

Kipper: Also, we've got a special handout

going out the first quarter of this year.

379

It's Seth Godin's 22 quotes that

every radio person should know.

380

For 2022, just check the show notes

as always, thanks to executive

381

producer, Cindy Huber for putting

this all together and our associate

382

producer, Hannah B for handling the

guest bookings and coming up next.

383

Spot: Hi,

384

Erica: I'm Erica Mandy with

the newsworthy podcast.

385

I'm going to be sharing how you can

make your newscasts more objective and

386

gain more trust from your audience.

387

That's coming up next

on brand with on demand.

388

Harry: That's a wrap Kipper.

389

Heritage,

390

Dave: history, all that good

stuff in the rear view mirror may

391

help you next week or tomorrow.

392

We'll talk about it.

393

One Minute Martinizing in the

show notes at brandwithondemand.

394

com.

395

I'm Dave Martin.

396

And I'm

397

Spot: Kipper McGee.

398

May all your brand with be wide.