This week on the Be Epic podcast, Brent welcomes Sarah Langham, a partner and office managing partner at HoganTaylor and an alum of the Walton College. They delve into Sarah's journey from her education at Walton College to her professional growth in accounting, highlighting her transition from Ernst and Young to HoganTaylor. Sarah discusses the significant growth of HoganTaylor, her engaging role with diverse clients, and the evolving landscape of the accounting industry influenced by technology and automation. She emphasizes the shift from mundane tasks to critical thinking in the field, and the potential future changes in the structure of accounting careers. Join them as they explore how modern accounting practices are adapting to new technologies and preparing the next generation for a dynamic workplace.

Take advantage of the opportunities and do a lot

of things. But don't feel like you have to do every single

thing or that you're comparing yourself to other people like

enjoy the experience for what it is because this is a special

time that you don't get to go back and, and redo.

Welcome to the Be Epic Podcast brought to you

by the Sam M. Walton College of Business at the University of

Arkansas. I'm your host, Brent Williams. Together, we'll

explore the dynamic landscape of business and uncover the

strategies, insights and stories that drive business today. Well,

today I have with me, Sarah Langham, and Sarah is a partner

with HoganTaylor, and is the office managing partner in the

local office in Northwest Arkansas and alum of the Walton

College. So Sarah, thank you for being here today.

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be

here.

Well, I've known Sarah for quite a while. And she

has been not only engaged with engaged within the community,

but engaged at the Walton College for years. But maybe

before we kind of get into some of what you see happening in

your industry, maybe a little bit one about your background,

and then some about familiarizing our listeners with

HoganTaylor.

Right, so as you mentioned, I am a graduate of the Walton College

two times. So as a CPA, I have a master's in accounting. And it

was great to be able to stay here for a fifth year and learn

from some of the best, I think it really helped us. And at the

time, Dr. Pincus was the accounting department chair, and

she told us she was preparing us to be future partners. And so I

appreciate all the effort that they poured into us at that

time. But I graduated and started with Ernst and Young in

the Rogers, Arkansas office, which was great experience

worked on, you know, some of the usual suspects here in Northwest

Arkansas and great teams learned a lot. But I had an opportunity

to switch to a regional firm, after about a year and a half.

And for me, that was a great fit, working on smaller clients,

but still really high quality clients and just getting to see

maybe more variety. And so came over to the firm as an

experienced staff, and then I've stayed so that was in December

2007. I've been with the firm a long time. It's grown a lot. And

when I joined the firm, there were 74 people, and HoganTaylor

now, which through some mergers has about 350 professionals, so

large regional firm, and based in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and then

Oklahoma City, Little Rock and then Fayetteville.

Well, you know, I know you I know, you still serve clients,

and you have the opportunity to lead the local office, what's,

you know, in, in in your role? What's what's some of the things

you enjoy most about working with clients?

Well, I think that my job is not boring.

Yeah.

And I get to serve a wide variety of clients.

And it's really interesting to see the really different

challenges that they're facing, and to get to be a part of

brainstorming or sharing best practices with them. Just some

really motivated, really interesting individuals that I

get to work alongside with and see their businesses grow, and

see their teams grow. It's really neat to see people that

I, when I was a staff, and they were maybe lower, you know, in

the ladder, and they've grown up and in their respective

companies, it's, it's just really fun to see everyone grow

and get better together. It's, it's been a fun ride.

Well, you know, Sarah, when I, when I think

about our students here, our accounting students, and we have

several, as you well know, we have a large number that are

really following the exact same path you did so undergraduate,

going into a fifth year graduate program, and then and then

they'll find their way into, you know, into a firm, or they might

end up on the corporate side, and amongst other things, you

know, but I'm sure they're wondering, and I know, there's

conversations and engagement in the classroom on this, but like

your perspective, you know, so much, but when you when you

think about audit, you know, there's a lot of conversation

out there about what can technology automate, what can it

not? How're you thinking about that? Are you all at HoganTaylor

thinking about?

Yeah, so we're really lucky, we have a partner

of innovation and who's helping us, you know, stay abreast of

all the current changes, but just a couple of concrete

examples of things that have changed from the time I was a

staff, you know, in 2005 2006, to now, as a first year staff,

one of your jobs used to be to look at two different documents

and see if the numbers were the same between those two

documents. As you can imagine, after five years of college,

that might not be the most exciting thing and you might not

feel like that's the highest and best use of your brain power.

And thankfully, with technology, there's a lot of times now where

that can all be automated. And so we've sped up some of the

learning curve because you're not having to necessarily pay

your dues by looking at two pieces of paper to say that they

agree. Yeah, you get to jump past that, to start analyzing it

and say, what are the outliers? What makes sense? Let's flip

through these and and see does it does it match my

expectations. And so I think harnessing technology to help us

all level up and take out some of the routine or mundane tasks

that really didn't add value to anyone. If I was a student

coming out, I'd be really excited about that, to hear that

I'm gonna get used for my critical thinking skills, and

not just my ability to compare two numbers. So I think that's

great.

So as you're bringing, you know, younger

people, younger professionals into the organization, you know,

how are you preparing them for that interaction, I guess, with

with technology and with automation, do you feel like,

like, oh, it's just natural? Or do you have to prepare them for

No, I think it's so natural. And it's and it's

that?

really exciting. That's why we love having interns, you know,

we bring new staff in every year, because they're not

afraid, they're not afraid to break it, they're not afraid to

experiment and try new things, that's, it's probably harder for

me sometimes to embrace some of those things. And I have to work

to overcome maybe that fear, and where the students coming out,

it comes just so naturally to them. And, and what's

interesting is that if you empower them, and you say, hey,

if you're doing a task, and it doesn't feel like this is the

most efficient way, you have the freedom to try it a different

way. And they they do and it's really neat sometimes to see

what they can come up with.

Yeah, you know, the, you're right, like, like,

getting to use what humans are best for critical thinking,

communication. And getting to use that off the bat, I would

assume, probably changes the longevity and career and

probably maybe even affects long term trajectories as well.

Right. And, and we're so early, you know, in the

industry, they talk about it used to be in public accounting,

which is my space and it for so, so long was a pyramid, you know,

where there was lots of people at the, you know, entry level

doing those tasks, and then it gets smaller and smaller. And

there's talk now that maybe it would be more like a diamond,

you know, where there's a few people that help input

documents, and a lot of the, maybe the more routine tasks are

automated, but then it gets broader in the middle. And that

narrows again, at the top, I think we're still early in it, I

don't know how that's all gonna play out. I think that I've seen

people's careers be more enriching, I see people learning

and asking good questions, and maybe being able to go deeper,

because they get to see more, and they, we do expect a lot of

them. And because, you know, we need you off the bat, like you

said, critical thinking, I need you to tell me if it makes

sense, not just tell me if the two numbers are the same.

Absolutely. Well, you know, I tend to have a

bias in the direction of like, I feel like humans tend to adapt

to the technology, and then, you know, tend to be able to make

higher level contributions because of that, but I do know

that, you know, the, the field of Accounting has been one of

those right, that has been put forward as an area that could be

disrupted.

Right. Yep. I think pieces of it will. And,

and I think that's okay, if we see the pipeline, you hear

about, you know, some accounting numbers are going down. So,

okay, then let's repurpose, you know, let's focus our attention

to the areas that maybe are more fulfilling and more exciting, I

can appreciate that there are certain jobs in accounting that

for students coming out now would not be particularly

attractive, you know, and because it's, it's not engaging

their sense of their highest purpose. And I appreciate that.

And so I'm excited that if we have a limited number of staff

that we can deploy them in ways that they feel like they're,

they are contributing and in helping their organizations.

You know, accounting is interesting, it as

a, as an element or function of business, in that, you know, I'm

sure you've heard this said many of you listening have heard this

said that accounting is the language of business. And so we

encourage even, you know, non accounting majors, we would like

them to have some accounting so that so that they can

communicate and interact using that language. And I am sure you

see that working with clients every single day.

I do yeah. And, and I think the clients that

have people in house that not just know their numbers, but can

interpret it can tell the story can not just live in the past,

and that's a hard thing about being an accountant, but pick up

on trends and predict what that's going to be like in the

future or the companies that are really doing exciting things,

you know, because they're not being reactive, and they're

they're really trying to be forward thinking and strategic

and, and the ones that are doing that, it's just great to see

their results and and see the power that being able to distill

that information and tell a story with that information

really elevates their whole organization. It's a super

skill, know accounting and be able to explain it to other

people. It's a super skill.

I haven't heard it said that way. But now I'm a

I may borrow or steal that, you know, having known you for some

time, I know innovation is an area that you are particularly

interested in. But, you know, you refer to micro innovation.

And I just wondered if you might double click on that a little

bit and kind of talk through that concept and how it applies

in your world.

Yeah, that really distills down to empowerment,

you know, and to not being okay with being stuck and not being

okay with being frustrated that when we say micro, it's just

little tweaks and little changes in your approach or the way that

you go about, not just your work, but your life. And it's

been so encouraging, so exciting to me, when I see team members

embracing that, and like reach a new breakthrough, you know, or

the ripple effect of, they've been frustrated with something

and they're fed up. And so they figure out a better way and

share it with others. And then everybody, you know, saves time,

you know, as accountants, as much as we hate it the billable

hours important. And so, you know, the more efficient that we

can be, the better we can are, you know, the better results we

have, the better we can serve our clients. And so, for us

micro innovation is is just being willing to get better to

try new things and, and to not accept the status quo.

Yeah. Do you all have specific ways or maybe

they're your own, or maybe they're more systemic within the

firm, to celebrate those micro innovations and kind of call

them forward so that it encourages more?

Yeah. So as someone that shepherds it in the

firm, that's a big thing, right is to show people because it's a

squishy topic.

Yeah.

And so to call out and celebrate the wins is

really important. So if we have a department meeting, we'll talk

about it in a medium like that. You were on teams all the time.

And so we'll be in a team's meeting, and someone will make a

comment. That's total micro innovation. And someone in the

chat, I'm sure we're all familiar with the chat, got the

side chat going, we'll say hashtag micro innovation, and to

just continue to keep that in our language. It's interesting.

Some people in the firm use the term get better, instead of

micro innovation. I don't care which term they use, as long as

we're all doing it. And I see it on a daily basis, which is

really, it's good when you're working on something to see it

in practice.

right,

Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know,

you've you've been successful inside HoganTaylor. And I know

and in many ways, and so, one, maybe talk a

you've recently taken on, you know, I mentioned this at the

little bit about what you do in that role, but like, and I think

beginning a new role of the office managing partner. But

that's an interesting role, I want you to talk some about, at

least outside looking in what I see interesting about it is

that, you know, you're managing an office that that is made up

of a set of peers,

you've only been in it for, you know, for a few months or so.

But what have you learned thus far?

Well, I think that maybe you've learned this

too, that you don't really know exactly what you're doing until

you're really doing it for real. So. So I've learned that Todd

Yeah,

Wisdom, who had the role before me did a lot of things behind

four months, and, you know, I'll report back.

the scenes that he was very quiet about, and I didn't

totally appreciate. So thank you, Todd, for doing all the

things she did behind the scenes for so many years. And but

really, a big part of it is shepherding our culture, you

know, being a point person for someone on the outside that has

questions for the firm, and then helping make some decisions

about things that are going to enhance our employee experience

or things inside our office. You talk about working with peers, I

think one of the reasons I love public accounting is because I

work with all professionals. Yeah, everyone is CPA eligible,

everyone treats each other with respect, that's the kind of

company I would want to work for. And so it's, it's fun being

in the role, because I'm working with people that I really

respect, and it's not a situation that I'm having to,

you know, be a mean person at any point in time. You know, I'm

working with people that that are motivated and want to do

great things, and I just get to help support them in those

roles. And so, so far, so good.

Well, I keep talking about all these roles

you have and so I want to spend the last few minutes that we

have together focused on another role, but first, you know, let

me kind of go back to partner you've taken on this Managing

Partner role, you know, knowing you right now, I know a role at

home, wife, mom, but kind of in our world in the in the College

and University alum, alum alumna is a role that you play and you

play it really well. And and that's part of what I wanted to

talk about today. You know, so just observing all your

interactions, you're very deeply engaged here hasn't been that

long ago, I was walking through a building and and saw you and

you were guest lecturing in a class. You're here today on the

serving on the Dean's Alumni Advisory Council. So maybe talk

about that role. And it's clearly a role that you've taken

seriously and embraced, maybe a little bit of the why behind it

in case others are thinking, how could I be engaged more?

Right. Well, I think it goes back to the

experience I had when I was here as a student. Yeah, it makes a

difference in your life, when you get an opportunity to be

exposed to the type of leaders that I was exposed to, when you

get launched off into a career, like I was launched off into

that just set me up for so many opportunities. You know, Cathy

Gates was in EY, she was the office Managing Partner of EY

Tulsa. And she was on campus and interviewed me for my first job.

She's someone who's still engaged.

I actually didn't know that. But it makes

sense now.

Yeah. And so, you know, she's someone that from

the time I was a student I looked up to, of course, I would

come back and do things, Cathy did it. Yeah. And she's someone

I would love to emulate. And so, you know, I had that those

really good examples. And I enjoy my days on campus. You

know, I think now I'm qualifying as like an older younger alumni

based on some some schedules I saw today. But it just gives you

energy when you're here. And it's so exciting, to see the

things that are happening at the college to see the growth of the

University of Arkansas Fayetteville overall, and to see

us moving the needle on really important metrics. So I want to

get back I enjoy being here and, and just appreciate

opportunities where I can plug in and, and feel like I'm adding

some value back to somewhere that gave me such a great start.

You know, as the Dean's Alumni Advisory Council,

we're talking about and spent a good bit of today talking about

alumni engagement, and in ways that alumni engagement can

really move the needle for the Walton College, as you

mentioned, growth. Certainly a big part of our story as of the

last several years, about 9000 students we'll, we'll get to 10,

you know, at some point in the near future. And you know, and

for us, we think about, we think about experience in the

classroom, obviously, is a core critical part of, of what we

offer, but it's all these other experiences around it, like

internships and, you know, sitting in on a panel that you

might present on. So how do you kind of as someone that has been

engaged, how have you found many different opportunities to

provide those experiences.

Right. Well, I think you know, anyone in a

company with influence to be able to hire interns, like I

would say, interns have been just a, for our firm, a great

talent pipeline. And just like when you're on campus, campus,

you get different energy and enjoy being around the students.

You know, having those folks embedded in your teams is

fantastic. And so I think anytime you can capitalize on

that opportunity, that would be fantastic. You know, I like

being on campus, because I like to keep in touch with some of my

professors. And anytime there's an opportunity that works with

my schedule, I want to be here because not only am I learning

from the students, you guys are always doing new cool things, I

get to learn new things that are happening and, and so I think it

enhances me professionally, just as much as I might be able to

give back.

Yeah, you know, when you you've you've had

several interns in your office, any particular points of wisdom

that you would give to our listeners about how to two

things, get the most, right, because you want to get the most

out of those that resource, but also provide the best experience

any tips?

Yeah, I think for our firm, it's been a balance

over the years. And I think every everyone takes a different

approach. Our goal is for it to be a real experience where

they're embedded in teams and they're doing what the real work

would be. You know that they have some special days they get

to do some special fun things but it's it's more doing the

real work versus a super fun curated experience. So sorry

interns where you do real work for us. But I think that that's

helpful. I think that that equips them and in any time I

encourage our interns to do multiple internships, see what

it's really like in different companies and what what you like

and the only way to know that is to do the real work. So we just

tried to get them plugged in. And

Well, and we want them, you know, to the, to

that point of the internships providing real work like, you

know, for, for us from like a pedagogical learning standpoint,

you know, I talked about this all the time, I'm someone who I

learn in context, but outside of context, it can be a little hard

for me to learn. And so when I, when I learn and apply, you

know, and then what I saw in the application I bring back to the

classroom or back to the book I'm reading and studying, it's

that kind of back and forth between learning and

application. And we do that as professionals for the rest of

our lives. So I think it is actually really important that

the experience be real, because I think the learning will be

more real.

I agree. For example, we had an intern sit in

a planning meeting the other day. And in accounting, you

know, understanding what the risk assessment process is, you

can read about it in a book all day long, but for that student

to get to sit and listen to us debate back and forth and decide

how are we going to test different balances? What's the

real risk? You know, he'll be able to apply that when he is in

his auditing class, I think that it will set him apart and give

him a head start to understand the concepts like you said, when

you when you have the context, and it's not just an abstract

thing on a page.

Yeah. And internships derisk, the hiring

process for the employer?

Certainly, yeah, we've had some fantastic interns

convert over the years. I've had some fantastic interns that went

other places. And so you're welcome to whatever company they

ended up at. And, but yeah, it's been it's been great for us.

And, and it's something we'll continue so.

Yeah, well, you know, when you will kind of

think about our students, you know, and I always, every time I

walk through, you know, these buildings, you know, I'm

reminded that we have so many young people that are about to

enter their professional life, and can make a difference in

business and in their communities for a long time to

come. And so, you know, as you look back over your career thus

far, what is one piece of advice, that from what you've

learned, that you would give a student from the Walton College?

I would say that there are so many opportunities

that are here, that you need to just tackle as much as you can

tackle. And, and I think the flip side of that is, as a

college student, you're at a really special time of your

life. And I think I see from students coming out now that

they put a lot of pressure on themselves. And so I think the

balance is take advantage of the opportunities and do a lot of

things. But don't feel like you have to do every single thing or

that you're comparing yourself to other people, like enjoy the

experience for what it is because this is a special time

that you don't get to go back and, and redo. So I don't know

how to hold that tension. But I think that that, that would be

my advice to them is do what you can but then don't fret over not

doing everything.

Yeah, that's right. You know, we careers in

life are pretty nonlinear. You know, and but I couldn't agree

more. I think when you think about this Walton College

experience, it is exactly that. It is an experience, and there's

so much that a student can take advantage of. And that was

usually one of my first piece of advice to incoming freshmen as

well, as a freshman get involved in something. And if that's not

the thing, find the next one. And, you know, if you do enough

of that, by the time you leave here, you've done some

internships, you know, you really are on the path, like

hopefully doing something that gives you lots of joy.

I agree.

Well, Sarah, thanks for spending a few

minutes with me today and thank you for the way that you give

back. Alumni Engagement is so important to the college it

helps us in many ways, including internships in placement and,

and many, many other but you're such a prime example of that. So

thank you.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

On behalf of the Walton College thank you for

joining us for this captivating conversation. To stay connected

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