Today is part two of two where we are talking to Katharine Sweet about her novels. After today you will have heard about writing since you could hold a pen, starting with fanfiction, learning how to market your books, re-writing your characters, overcoming typos that make it into your manuscript, formulating your spicy scenes and sometimes having characters that take over your story.

I want to make a disclaimer for these two episodes, we do talk trigger warnings and some details that may be harmful for some listeners.

Get Love Is...

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I’m a Michigan girl born and raised and I’m a typical fall-loving girl, please give me cool nights, falling leaves, hoodies, and hot caramel apple cider. I work fulltime and write when I can, so my days are powered by good coffee, chatting with friends, nerd culture, and just a splash of spite

I’ve loved to read and write since I was a child, which stems from a little escapism and a lot of listening to characters “talking” in my head. I love the way that stories can not only pull you in, but also help you connect to worlds you might unfamiliar with.

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Today is part two of two where we are talking to Catherine Sweet about her novels.

After today, you will have heard about writing since you could hold a pen.

Starting with Fanfiction, learning how to market your books, rewriting your characters, overcoming typos that make it into your manuscript, formulating your spicy scenes, and sometimes having characters that take over your story.

I want to make a disclaimer for these two episodes.

We do talk trigger warnings and some details that may be harmful for some listeners.

Love stories are you know the term write what you know.

Generally, it implies you're writing about your life, not plagiarizing someone else's tale.

Because if you do, you better hope they don't find out.

Vinny's professional life fine.

His personal life consists of helping everyone with whatever they need whenever they ask.

He's always been an afterthought, the supporting character in the story.

On impulse, he writes a book based on his brother's love story and sends it to a publishing company.

Anna's professional life great.

Her personal life contained neatly within one building her office, apartment and little black cat.

When she snatches a book out of her coworker's trash can, she has no clue how her life is about to change.

Anna wants his book.

Vinny doesn't want his family to know what he wrote.

To explain the time they'll be spending together, they agree to act as a couple.

No one will realize Vinny's publishing a book with Anna's company and Anna can keep creeps from hitting on her at upcoming events.

Love Stories are it's the second book in the Goodrow brothers duet, continuing the story of Matt and Vinny's lives.

This time the focus is on Vinny and what happened at the end of Love is with feelings swears and spice.

This foray into fake dating is the perfect friends to lovers treat.

Grab your favorite drink and pick up a copy today.

Because you said you pretty much knew early on that you were going to self publish.

Was there any particular reason you decided to go that route instead of attempting the other.

Yeah.

I knew I wanted to tell the story in my way, and I looked into querying, and when you look into querying, they give you the guidelines that your story is supposed to fall into.

You're writing this kind of book, it needs to be this kind of word count and different things.

And then a lot of the stuff I was just looking at to market, and I know that's how an agent is going to look at a book is they're going to look at it like, is this going to fit in a niche that we can just roll out when I know my books don't fit that?

And so I was like, first of all, I'm not going to cut 100,000 words out of my first.

Yeah, right.

Usually with the rom.com, they're right around they're between like 80 and 90 ish.

Well, depending.

Yeah.

Everyone that I've done has been around 60 or 70.

Right.

So for me, they're on the shorter side.

I'm like, oh, I don't know if I could tell a story in that many words.

But also, in both chapters, I have a cutout chapter, I have a flashback chapter that you see the POV from somebody who you've seen in the book, but you haven't seen their voice in the entire book.

Yeah.

And no one's going to want to keep that.

Nobody's going to want that sudden record.

Scratch that's.

Not to market.

That's not what's selling.

And I knew that I wasn't going to budge, and I wanted the control to be like, no, I want to tell the story my way and my voice.

And that doesn't mean that I can't improve or that there's critique of my book that isn't valid.

Because if you don't like it or if you think it's got problems, please feel free to let me know.

Or you're wondering why he's gagging her in chapter two.

Right, exactly.

This is a very valid question.

I'd be like, the typo.

Why do you have a copy of that?

Who gave you that book?

I should know everyone who has both copies.

But I still want to tell it my voice.

Right.

I still want the book to be mine.

And I knew that if I went with a query and I went with an agent, some of that voice would be chipped away, and I wasn't willing to do that.

Right.

So for me, it was worth it to learn all the things and be terrorized by the publishing process of doing it self published.

To be able to hang on to that and be able to have the voice told, the story told, no words.

I feel like eventually, though, it's a terrible learning curve for the first couple of books.

And then once you get it down, once you learn one of the authors that I have narrated quite a few words books for was like, at the beginning, it took a long time to figure out how to format it.

And now it takes her, like, 30 minutes.

And she's got the whole book formatted because she's done it a bunch of times now.

The marketing that's always if you're not marketing your book anywhere ever, no one's going to buy it because they don't know it exists.

There's just that little tiny part.

You have to sorry, go ahead.

It's learning hooks.

It's learning how you get the attention because, yes, my book is spicy, but I wouldn't put it in the spicy book category because it is definitely not an erotica it is not a super spicy book.

There is spice in the book, and it's good spice.

I've been told by a bunch of people.

I'm very happy about that.

But I wouldn't put it in an erotica category.

It's written in third person, and I know some people who cannot stand third person.

Yeah, whatever book you write is not going to be for everybody.

Right.

It's learning how to draw that audience in and what way you're going to do that, which is going to be.

Different for every author.

Right.

And even every book, even within every the first people that I had read the second book outside of the writing groups I'm a part of saw a TikTok where I mentioned that the male main character was Demisexual.

Okay.

And specifically read the book because of that.

Didn't normally do billionaire romance, but wanted to read it because she saw that my TikTok, she's like, I don't see characters that are gamsexual very often, especially not guys.

So that's different.

That's odd.

And really enjoyed it.

And I was like, first of all, yeah, validation.

But I might not have caught her with any of the other TikToks that I did on it.

Right.

But because that one hit just right, caught her attention.

I don't remember the author, but one who wrote a lesbian coffee shop or tea house or, I don't know, lesbian something.

Same thing.

Like, someone came across and saw that, and a bunch of people were angry that that's what it is.

And she's like, it's literally in the blurb.

Right?

So she was talking about she ended up she actually posted on TikTok and was like, this is in my book.

Should I put, like, a banner on the Amazon listing?

And they're like, yeah.

So now it now it says that there's a banner on the listing lesbians here.

If you miss the banner, the giant banner across the Amazon listing, that is on you.

Well, that's the thing.

Yeah.

Too often we hear there needs to be a trigger warning if it's not a heterosexual couple.

But do we do we need a trigger warning for that?

Do you realize it's 2022?

Oh, my God.

It's only February.

Exactly.

It still counts.

But yeah.

And it's like, no, this is not no trigger warning is in the first book deal with pregnancy.

So one of the trigger warnings is pregnancy.

Pregnancy complication and all of those things.

Those can be triggers.

Yes, there is a serious but not fatal thing that happens within the book, okay?

And I know to some people it could be super triggering.

So I have that little potential pregnancy loss as a trigger because God forbid somebody who's not in the right place picks up this book and it is a comfort read.

It's like a comfy book and it's like, again, it's funny and sweet, but there is that section of the book that might upset somebody, and I don't want somebody to come into my book blind and get hurt.

That is not the goal.

I want you to laugh and enjoy the book and be like, oh my God.

These days I've seen a few ACX auditions for Audiobooks where they put the triggers in the audition.

So it's like if you are someone triggered by these things, we don't want you to be aware that these are in there.

Not that you can't do the book, but be aware.

And I've had some that come to me and they're like, are you okay with XYZ?

And I'm like, I don't have any issues with anything.

Just like, give me whatever you want to.

Right?

And I think that's one of the best things about independent publishing and people working independently is that I think we've grown to be more aware and more sensitive of those things.

And we've learned how to do those things better as a way to equip a reader or a listener, to know what's coming and to know if that's going to be something they're comfortable with versus being blindsided.

Let's be real here.

It's because as independent authors, you listen to the feedback from readers where publishers are going to cut all that out to make it more palatable.

Not all, because I do know, like, I talked to AK Molford several months ago, and that was one of her stipulations, was, you're not going to essentially whitewash my books.

And they were like, no, you can do them how you want to.

So there are some people can get that type contract.

Some people will not get that type contract.

Right.

Well, with me being older and from a time when I remember reading against Fanfiction net.

So we're talking about before the tags were a thing and there might be a disclaimer in there or like a notation, but not everybody did them.

You were reading blind.

I remember reading this would have been.

Pre therapy being acceptable too.

Right?

Exactly.

So this is like we're talking circle, like 2001, 2002.

So like 100 years ago, I don't remember anything about the story.

I don't remember what phantom it is.

I don't remember what it is.

And it did not show the assault, but it showed the aftermath of a child being hurt by an adult in a very inappropriate way.

And the kid was drinking orange juice and how it burned his throat.

After what he had gone through, I couldn't drink orange juice for six months.

When I see orange juice again, it's 20 years and I still remember it.

It burned in my brain.

I remember that it wasn't written in an exploitative way, but God, I wish there would have been a warning to.

Skip this chapter or something.

Yeah, right?

And I definitely did not.

And I remember it being so upsetting.

And again, every time I was like, oh, do you want orange juice?

No, absolutely not.

I will take literally anything else but orange juice.

Black coffee.

Even though I don't bring black coffee.

Yes, please give the scolding hot liquid with no cream, no sugar, and no ice.

I'll just burn my throat.

It's fine.

But the orange juice?

Yeah, I don't know that I've read.

I've been surprised.

So, like, I got not me specifically.

I came across a TikTok where they were recommending the American Queen series.

Okay, that one.

And then another one by that author.

Same person was recommending her stuff.

And so I picked up the first series, which was not the American Queen one.

I can't remember the name of it now.

Can't remember the name of the author either.

It's Saturday.

My brain is fried.

Anyway, so I pick up this series.

I don't read the blurb.

I'm just like, oh, it was recommended.

I've liked some of the other books that she recommended.

So I just like, buy the whole series as one does and start reading through it.

And I'm like, this is the spiciest series I've ever read in my entire life.

And I'm like and we're, like, on a road trip to my in law's house who are like, very from the Bible Belt.

Oh, no.

We're in the car, and I'm reading the book, and it's like a nine hour drive.

So I finish the book by the time we get there.

I do not read the next book in the series while we are there, I wait until we're on the drive home.

So then I pick up the American Queen series, knowing what I was probably in for at that point because I'd read the other series, but it was like, oh, my gosh, what am I doing?

My friend had the nightmare scenario happen.

So her fiance, his little girl, got a karaoke machine for Christmas.

Okay, Bluetooth enabled.

Do we see where this was going?

So it's at the in law's house.

Fun, right?

And it connected to her phone, and.

I'm sure she was listening to a very appropriate audiobook at the time.

She got it turned off, thankfully, in one sentence where it wasn't like a bad sentence, but it was like, leading to a bad sentence.

She goes, I have never deleted anything off of my phone so fast.

She goes, I texted my fiancee.

It was like, you need to come right now and be home, because I need to be not here.

Nobody heard it, but I know and I can't be here.

Yes, I need to not be anywhere in the vicinity.

My family all knows I narrate.

They have no idea what I narrate.

And I'd rather keep it that way.

While I am fine saying all the words, I don't want them.

So a few family members do know what name I narrate under and have listened to some of my audiobooks.

I just tell them, anyone who I am willing to give the name to, I'm like, just read the blurb first because I won't be held responsible if you stumble into me narrating a spicy scene and you are uncomfortable by it.

That was the first thing I got done with the first book, and my whole family knew I was working on it.

And I was like, yeah, that's fine.

And there's a spicy scene in the book.

And then I realized probably about three weeks before I was done, I was like, oh, my family is going to read this.

Oh, my family is going to read this book.

No, my family will not ever be told the name that I write under unless it just so happens to eventually be revealed.

Which reality is it will eventually happen.

I would like to prolong that as long as possible.

My grandma goes, I didn't think it was that bad.

I read worse than that.

I was like, I can't know that.

No, Grandma.

No, I can't know that.

Please and thank you.

We're not having this chat.

We are not spicy book club friends.

No.

I have told my family they can ask me anything about my books except for those scenes.

I will talk about anything else with you.

We will not discuss those.

You pretend that chapter doesn't exist when we're chatting.

Yes, absolutely not.

And again, I religious household.

I'm from Michigan.

Very Bible Belty area.

I went to a Christian school.

Like like my whole, like, education, like pre K through high school graduation.

So like, yeah, okay.

I have someone go, oh, you wrote a book.

I should read it.

I'm like, just so you're aware.

Little disclaimer.

And I had one old school mate that goes, I don't think I'm going to read it, but good for you.

I was like, see, that is the acceptable answer.

Thank you.

Thank you for that.

That is we cool, man.

And then was it three weeks?

Three weeks after I published the first one, I had an old schoolmate that messaged me to tell them how disappointed they were at me.

You're like, for writing a book like that?

Okay.

I was like, keep by.

Graduated and it doesn't matter your opinion anymore.

I'm a whole adult.

Listen, I understand that you still think of me as 15 and that's cool, but I'm not.

My husband was being a t*** the other day and he was like, I don't even remember what I was talking about writing spicy scenes.

I think I was talking about.

And he's like, but just make sure that you're writing what Jesus would approve of.

And I'm like excuse me, sir.

You have on multiple occasions told me the f***** up backstory you've given your main character, so maybe don't judge.

I am usually very snappy with my comebacks.

Like, sarcasm is very natural for me.

And I just stood there in silence staring at him for, like, two minutes.

Like, I cannot believe you just said that.

I came up with again, my friend did my astrological chart, okay?

And I'm virgo, like, all the way down.

And she's like, Are you okay?

I was like, no, absolutely not.

I am an elder millennial, and I'm a virgo.

No, there is nothing about me that's okay.

Why?

I write live in my fantasy world.

That's August, right?

It's like September.

Yeah, I think that's me too, though.

Yeah, like, end of August is when my birthday is.

Virgo all the way down, all three of them.

And she's like, oh, my God.

I was like, yeah.

And I wrote a spreadsheet to write spicy scenes with words like, broken down by adjective, verb and noun, so it's easy to reference.

So you took a clinical approach to writing spicy scenes?

I did.

So when I write oh, my God.

Okay.

So this is my process of writing spicy scenes with your weird brains.

Like, I am I write essentially a diagram first, okay?

I use the most clinical terms of ABCD.

These are the events that are going to happen in the spicy scene.

Okay.

And then I write them out very plainly.

Okay.

And then I fluff it to the way the character responds because I write third person, but I write third person with limited omniscience.

So you get to see into that character's head, and it has their twist of their voice.

So first book is a great example.

So the first book, Sarah, is pregnant when they have sex, because again, it's twist on the XL pregnancy trope.

And I was like, no, we're going to normalize this.

But Matt is very direct.

He is very to the point.

He's very caring.

He's grumpy.

So it doesn't always come across that way.

Vinny, on the other hand, is poetic.

Okay?

Vinny likes to write, and he is neurodivergent.

He has a different way of looking at things.

He's demisexual and has a lot more experience than him.

There is a line at the beginning that says, and I love it.

It's one of my favorite lines, is, the amount of erotica he had consumed in the last week was embarrassing.

Because.

He'S like, I'm going to do my homework, figure out what I'm doing.

Most guys watch a p****.

He's like, no, I'm going to read books written by women.

That's going to give me more of a good idea.

I am literally prepping a manuscript to Narrate right now that is a male author.

But in this book, there is an old movie theater in Los Angeles that used to be a p*** theater.

And so it talks about how the guys will go there because if they don't release, they are going to have essentially come coming out of their eyeballs.

And so it talks about how the surfaces have questionable things on.

And I'm just like laughing so hard as I'm reading this.

And I'm like, I have to narrate this.

Just a straight face.

Probably with lots of stopping to laugh or be like, how am I going to phrase this properly?

Oh my God, I wish you all the luck with that.

I would die, thankfully.

It's like one chapter, one relatively short chapter with all that description.

I haven't read the rest of the book, so I don't know if there's more in the rest of the book yet.

And I always find that it's fun with spicy scenes to put your character's personality in there and have it be reflective as of who they are.

Hilarious.

Sake.

So again, Benny?

semisexual.

He doesn't sleep with people.

He doesn't want to sleep someone he hasn't connected with.

And he struggles to connect with people.

So it's not that he's sex averse.

It'S just I don't want like, you enough for that.

Yeah, right.

He works at a strip club.

He works at a two story strip club.

The bottom layer, the bottom level is the traditional strip club.

Upstairs is like a burlesque house.

They do burlesque shows, drag shows.

It is gender inclusive.

Okay?

And so obviously he is around sex a lot and sex things, just not his thing, which is really fun to write as a character because everybody's very comfortable around him.

That'd be great if you were the boss there, though, because you don't have to worry about him messing with everybody inappropriately.

Right.

And he's very respectful and he's very forcibly like, everyone deserves to be safe in their space.

And he is six foot two and he's like, imposing would be a good way to describe him, but he's constantly trying to take up as little space as possible.

Okay.

Because he doesn't want to make other people feel uncomfortable with the elevator.

He'll pushes back to the wall, which for a guy is not your typical forceful kind of thing, but it's the way he's always been.

Everyone's told him he's weird, he's odd, so he's trying to be invisible all the time.

Versus Anna's personality.

Anna is very comfortable with sex.

Very comfortable.

So there's a line in Book Lovers, if you've ever read it, where there's this funny line about how I'll email you has became this little meme that's like, after they passionately kiss, I'll email you this little meme about book lovers.

Well, I have comparable in love stories are because essentially Anna's like, hey, do you want to go upstairs?

And Benny's like, you're tired, I should go.

I'll call you.

And he's like, and her phone is broken.

He's like, putting his shoes on.

Nasty gets out, he's already out of her apartment putting on his second shoe.

I mean, email, I'll email you.

And he's like, gone.

And it's like, f***, what is wrong with this dude?

That is not the reaction I usually get.

Yeah.

She goes to see him and apologize.

She's like, I'm so sorry if I made you uncomfortable.

And he's like, oh, dad, your side of a table with you.

And he's fascinated by her.

Like, he likes talking to her, and he thinks she's an interesting person, but her attraction to him is instant, even outside of knowing him.

It's not like a love attraction.

It's like, no, I'd sleep with that dude.

Yeah, let's go.

And he's like, I don't know you well enough for that.

And it's this whole build of feelings and emotions and how you get there when you talk about how you improve with every story.

I can see my improvement as a writer from book one to book two.

And every time I have somebody go, oh, I saw this, I'm like, wow, my heart makes me so happy.

Well, that is get better as you go and learn how to write the characters better and the dialogue better and all that internal angst and stuff.

That is the goal, or should be the goal, for everybody to improve with everything you do.

Exactly.

Yeah.

For me, that was really important.

The challenge in writing the second book is that everybody had opinions about the characters from the first book because it's a duology and they're two brothers and they're very I don't want to use the word codependent because they're a little codependent.

They grew up rough, as in the case of a lot of books that we read.

So they had each other for a minute.

That's pretty much all they had.

And so they are kind of hingey and depend on each other a lot, and so I knew I was going to overlap them, so I was making sure I got the characters in the right voice, and I'm like, oh, God, if somebody argues with me that I got their personalities wrong, I can take that.

Right?

I can take that criticism.

Right.

I'm ready for that criticism that I think I characterized my own characters badly.

I'm ready for that.

I can take that.

Yeah, it's fine.

Yeah.

I felt that by my first round of betas, I had four beta readers on the first run, and I had two that had read the first book and two that hadn't read the first book.

Okay.

So I could get a good gauge of could the book stand by itself if it had to?

So if you're like, EW, I can't read the X Men pregnancy trope?

No, absolutely not.

But I kind of want to read your second book.

Could it stand alone?

And it can.

There's definitely some good winks, and it's better if you read the first book.

Right.

But it doesn't really take away from the story of the second book.

It's more of the world.

Like, if you want to have the full complete of what happens.

I've read a lot of romance series where it's like a ten book series where each book you follow a different couple through the whole thing.

And I mean, does it really matter that couple one has three kids and you didn't see that relationship develop in book ten?

No, it doesn't really matter.

But you're like, who are these people that have these multiple kids?

It's much better to have read it through the whole thing as opposed to just like, jumping in at the end.

But, I mean, each book generally does a brief synopsis of the book before, but it's not the same as experiencing the whole book.

Not okay.

And I know it's a little corny, but I did this very kind of meta thing between the two books.

So when you read the blurb of the first book, have you heard the one about the small town girl who got knocked out by the ex wife of an ex con she never met?

No.

You should.

It's pretty good.

So the second book starts with, you know the phrase, write what you know.

If you're going to tell a love story, you probably shouldn't tell love story from your family.

So the joke is that Vinny wrote the first book, and that's how he met Anna.

And so they're doing this whole fake dating thing.

So nobody figures out that he wrote that book, because if anybody figures out that he wrote that book, they're all going to kill him.

No one could know that I did this.

That would be great.

It's like, well, then why'd you do it in the first place?

Oh, no, because I did it.

It was done, and I had to go somewhere with it.

Don't know how to leave anything unfinished.

I keep talking about so my sister's second husband was the guy that she hired to mow her lawn after her husband left.

And I've had several people be like, yes, that should be a book.

I'm like, yes, it should.

That should totally be a book.

Yeah.

I would not write that because she is one of the people that knows my name that I use don't plagiarize.

Your family's love story goes badly.

Yeah, but I've mentioned it a couple of times on here, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, someone needs to write that book because it's just too perfect.

For oh, my God.

Yeah.

No, I love that.

That's good.

I think that whole truth is stranger than fiction, I think definitely applies to certain couples.

You're like, how did you ever get together?

You got together.

How?

What?

Who is writing your book?

Could they write a chapter of mine, please?

Because I could use some of that.

Magic when I'm constantly sending her stuff.

The Zodiac Academy.

Sisters.

I send her.

Those videos.

And I'm like, this could be us if you would help me write books.

Yeah.

I'm like, we should totally do this.

It'll probably end up being me and my husband.

But he has a plan for one.

He wants, like, me and him and his brother to write.

And I'm like, okay.

His brother writes, his brother is one of those has written a bunch but has never published.

So he has all these finished manuscripts that he's too shy to publish.

I'm like, whatever.

I'm like, at some point, we're just going to raid your house and just publish all of these for you and then just send the checks.

You're an author.

Yeah.

We control all the emails.

You won't see the negative stuff.

We're going to hang out for you.

Yeah.

I don't know.

Now he's talking about so I started narrating fiction beginning of last year, and then I started writing.

Prior to that, I started writing a book because I'm like, no one's hiring me to narrate their fiction.

I'm just going to write my own fiction, and then I'll narrate it myself.

So I start writing.

And then in March, that's our anniversary.

And so me and my husband were somewhere for our anniversary, and I'm talking about this book I'm writing.

And he's like, oh, yeah, I've had this book idea since I was in junior high and have never written it, but I'm dyslexic, so I can't write, and blah, blah.

I'm like, Write your d*** book, dude.

I'm like, we can't edit it.

It'll be fine.

And so now you were talking about missing that word.

He will listen back to his book.

He'll have it text to speech him.

And so he's found a couple of incorrect words used because of that, because he spelled it the way it made sense in his brain.

And then that was not the word that he meant.

So then he fixes it.

There are a lot of barriers that people put up for themselves that are just not barriers.

There's a writing group that I'm part of which I love.

It's discord.

And I'm one of the mods.

Each of the mods.

We all have our little icon thing that we can use as an emote.

And mine is yelling to stop editing while you're writing because I am constantly screaming, stop editing.

Get it on the page.

Get it on the page.

Get it on the page.

Edit later.

Get it down.

You have been working on the same hundred words for 62 minutes.

Continue with the story.

Go back and edit later.

It is not crucial to the entire plot of the book, but that one sentence.

Be correct right now.

Yeah.

Because my time is so limited for my writing at this point.

I do like a combination of one.

I was almost 30,000 words in decided at the beginning of this year, we're going to spend I hadn't worked on my book for six months.

Was like, we're going to spend at least ten minutes a day working on this book.

So what do I have to do after six months off?

I have to read through it again because I don't remember what I wrote six months ago.

So I just straight read through.

There was no editing unless there was like a very obvious, oh my gosh, that's wrong.

Then I'd correct that real quick.

But I read through it.

And as I'm reading through it, I'm like, this needs to be set way further in the future.

So then I had to go back once I'd read through it the first time and add in, because I don't want to spend knowing that this book is going to be big.

Like probably 100 and 2150 thousand words big.

I'm like, I need to figure this out now so that I can get the rest of the book correctly.

So now I'm having to go back through.

And also I wrote some of it in past tense and it should be in present tense, so I'm having to fix that too.

But that's an easy, like a word here or word there issue.

I'm not doing any major other than mine has a whole lot of dialogue and almost no inner dialogue.

So I'm slowly adding the inner dialogue in to make it more full as a story.

Because I know that spending it will take me forever to edit through this.

If I just wait till I get to the end and then do all the edits, right?

I'm like, it'll take me years if I do it that way.

So I'm like, we're going to somewhat edit as we go and then go from there, right?

And I think that's something important for writers to remember that no process is going to be universally successful.

So I have to get it all on the page and then write and then go back and edit and then fill in my foreshadowing.

After this book is done, go back and write the foreshadowing into the early chapters versus what I've written at the end.

So that's my process.

That's what works for me.

There's another writer in our group.

She has to edit as she goes.

She has to.

It has to be her level of perfection at that moment before she can continue on.

And she'll write like a page at a time.

And my brain just breaks every time.

I was like, I do not understand.

I don't get it.

But she doesn't understand my process.

That makes no sense to her.

Why on earth would you write out the entire thing?

What if you wrote a plot hole and now you got to change the whole manuscript from that PLA hole forward?

And I just laughed and I was like, I just change it.

She's like the whole thing.

And I was like, yeah, that's what we do.

Yes, it's part of the job.

I'm not the only person to ever have had to do that, right?

I did see a really cool video on TikTok talking about how to fill the plot holes.

And they said basically, if you have a hole, write a chapter as if you're filling that hole with this chapter.

And then you cut that chapter up into sections and you print out all the rest of your chapters.

And then at the top of each chapter you write like what that chapter is about so that you can fit these sections of this plot.

Hold chapter in as you go.

So you're not rewriting the whole thing, you're just rewriting around that chunk you're adding in.

So you may have to add an extra couple of paragraphs instead of I cannot take credit.

I don't remember who it was on TikTok, but it stuck in my head as like, that is perfect, so you don't have to rewrite a whole book.

I like that.

Now there are instances where yes, like your character being completely wrong, personality, that's different, but not every time does it require an entire rewrite.

Well, I had an unanswered question, so my mother and I will argue about this until the day one of us passes away.

So I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to write a second book.

Self doubt imposter syndrome.

I wanted to, but I didn't know if it was going to happen.

And I left the end of book one open.

Okay.

You could tell in my mind what was going to happen after the credits rolled on the end of book one, you kind of knew what we were doing.

My mother argued that it was too open ended and she needs the question answered.

So she threatened me that if I didn't answer the question in the second book, she was going to disown me or something emotionally damaging.

So I was like, okay.

So when I wrote the second book, I wrote in the answer like three times as I was writing because again, I'm a planter, so I know where I'm going.

I kind of weave my way through the story.

My first read through, I was like, oh, I've already mentioned this.

So I weeded it out.

Problem is that I took out all three of them.

Oh, no.

So my alpha reader, Nikki comes back and she goes, hey, are we going to find out what this is?

Did we not write that seed?

And I'm like, no, I wrote it so many times that I wrote I took it out, all three of them.

Instead of needing one in, I'm just going to go put one of those back now so the audience knows what's.

Happening, which is where keeping all this parts that you took out would be helpful because you had it three times.

I literally combined like two of them where I needed it to be for the answer.

I was like, oh, I like this line here and this line here.

And I'm going to paste it now.

I'm going to wiggle around it, make it I've done that with a couple always there.

I did that with a couple.

I've had two books now where I've done this where it would be like, the characters said in unison or whatever, and it'll have, like, the whatever it is that they're saying.

So in one of the books, it was like a marriage kind of ceremony, and they were, like, saying their weird vows because it was Dystopian, so the vows were different.

And so where the book was written as, like, they said it in unison, or it may have been from one perspective, but then you never heard the other one.

I would flip every sentence back and forth between voices.

So you got this cool thing, and I just did it in another book where they were doing a, I don't know, magical, crystal draining, power ceremony thing.

And it's the same thing.

Like, they're saying the same thing.

And so he starts it, and then it has it all from her perspective, but they're supposed to be saying it at the same time.

So I'm like, we're just going to flip back and forth here.

Yeah.

And it sounds really cool, even though the first author that listened, she was like, oh, my God, I loved how you did that.

And I'm like, that is what I was hoping your reaction would be.

Yeah, try things.

And sometimes they're like, no.

Right.

So I ground in my stories.

So I'll use a phrase that I'll repeat, and again, you have to temper that.

Can't do it all the time.

It becomes wonky and weird.

But I do this thing where I'll use a phrase, two phrases to ground, and it'll typically be one character saying it and the other responding, and it kind of becomes like a running thing, and I can't spoil it.

But I did it in the second book, and that was essentially the end of the second book minus the little epilogue that I wrote.

And I got to see one of the beta readers finish it in real time.

Okay.

When she got to it, she goes, gonna cry.

That was perfect.

Yes.

So so real talk.

If you need a narrator, I have openings at the end of the year, and your books sound fantastic.

I might be able to afford you.

We have to chat about that because I would love to get some in audio format so they are more accessible.

Yeah, we'll let you try.

And if you just cannot handle spicy.

My upbringing says you can't say that.

And I'm like but I wrote it verbally.

You can't say that.

No, but I wrote it.

I described it in detail.

Put yourself this is what I do.

I put myself in the head of the characters as if I am the character as I tell this story.

And I feel like for me, that really, really helps.

As opposed to like, I'm just reading a book and we're going to read the words on the page and it's going to be like super monotone and boring.

No, put yourself in the head as if yours is third person.

So it's a little bit different.

But you said it is like because I've done third person, where it's like, essentially a third person narrator.

Like, there's a whole separate voice I use for it, or I've had a few where it's like, you're in that person's head, so I told it in that character's voice.

So two different ways to approach it.

But if you just put yourself in the head of the character, it's easier because then you're like, It's me.

It's the character.

The description I use is at the beginning of the scene and most scenes they flip up between POVs is that the character you are walking through?

It says, okay, hold my hands.

Time to go.

You're going to see everything I see.

Let's go.

And you walk through it with their mentality.

Again, Supernatural is the example I use often to describe the brothers.

If you have seen Supernatural, familiar with it, it is a very salmondine kind of vibe between the brothers.

Matt has Dean sort of like kind of like, Yippee, dog.

Kind of like, how are you doing that, you idiot?

Right.

Matt's shorter, too, and he's the older brother and he's shorter.

That was not intentional.

It just happened.

But he's got that barky more like.

You'Re a dumb a**.

And you have Vinny, who's more intelligent and more quiet and more looks at everything from the different angles and is a f****** smart a**.

Has all the little sassy one liners where he's like in the first book, when you get a little bit of what's going on, we start with, like, the first page of the first book.

Is Matt's ex wife coming to tell him that, hey, you know how we slept together and I got mad at you afterwards?

I kind of stole your sperm sample and knocked somebody else up with it.

That's like the first three pages.

And Matt's like, I didn't ask for any of this.

Now, was I dumb and slept with my ex wife?

Yes, but the uncle is trying to figure out what happened.

And Vinny's line is essentially his psychotic ex wife stole a sperm sample she made him give before he got snipped and knocked up some virginal PreMadonna with it.

And now she's going to have his demons spawn, citing moral reason.

That's what happened.

But again, they are a ton of fun to write.

And Vinny's just like all of the sass and all of the sweet.

He's like the sweetest cinnamon roll boy.

And Matt is very loving.

He just comes across as aggressive.

Thank you again so much.

Bye.

Catherine has always liked the story her.

Grandmother told her about a woodcutter and a fairy.

From what I can tell, the wood sprite is the closest to what she described from Celtic mythology.

Celtic mythology is the body of myths belonging to the Celtic peoples.

Celtic myth influenced later Arthurian legend.

Today we'll be reading the storyteller at Fault from Celtic Folk and Fairy Tales collected by Joseph Jacobs.

Don't forget we're reading Lemore de Arthur, the story of King Arthur and of his noble Knights of the Roundtable on our Patreon.

You can find the link in the show notes.

The Storyteller at Fault at the time when the Tua de Danin held the sovereignty of Ireland, there reigned in Leinster a King who was remarkably fond of hearing stories.

Like the other princes and chieftains of the island, he had a favorite storyteller who held a large estate from His Majesty on condition of telling him a new story every night of his life before he went to sleep.

Many indeed were the stories he knew, so that he had already reached a good old age without failing even for a single night in his task.

And such was the skill he displayed that whatever cares of state or other annoyances might prey upon the monarch's mind, his storyteller was sure to send him to sleep one morning.

The storyteller arose early and as his custom was strolled out into his garden, turning over in his mind incidents which he might weave into a story for the King at night.

But this morning he found himself quite at fault.

After pacing his whole domain, he returned to his house without being able to think of anything new or strange.

He found no difficulty in.

There was once a King who had three sons, or one day the King of all Ireland.

But further than that he could not get.

At length he went into breakfast and found his wife much perplexed at his delay.

Why don't you come to breakfast, my dear?

Said she.

I've no mind to eat anything, replied the storyteller.

Long as I've been in the service of the King of Leinster, I'd never sat down to breakfast without having a new story ready for the evening.

But this morning my mind is quite shut up and I don't know what to do.

I might as well lie down and die at once.

I'll be disgraced forever this evening when the King calls for his storyteller.

Just at this moment, the lady looked out of the window.

Do you see that black thing at the end of the field?

Said she.

I do, replied her husband.

They drew nigh and saw a miserable looking old man lying on the ground with a wooden leg placed beside him.

Who are you, my good man?

Asked the storyteller.

Oh, then tis little matter who I am.

I'm a poor old, lamed, crepit, miserable creature sitting down here to rest a while.

And what are you doing with that box and dice I see in your hand?

I'm waiting here to see if anyone will play a game with me.

Replied the beggar man.

Play with you?

Why, what has a poor old man like you to play for?

I have 100 pieces of gold in this leather and purse, replied the old man.

You may as well play with him, said the Storyteller's wife, and perhaps you'll have something to tell the king.

In the evening a smooth stone was placed between them, and upon it they cast their throes.

It was but a little while, and the Storyteller lost every penny of his money.

Much good may it do you, friend, said he.

What better HAP could I look for?

Full that I am.

Will you play again?

Asked the old man.

Don't be talking, man.

You have all my money, haven't you?

Chariot and horses and hounds.

Well, what of them?

I'll stake all the money I have against thine.

Nonsense, man.

Do you think for all the money in Ireland I'd run the risk of seeing my lady tramp home on foot?

Maybe you'd win, said the Bokot.

Maybe I wouldn't said the storyteller.

Play with him, husband, said his wife.

I don't mind walking if you do, love.

I've never refused you before, said the Storyteller, and I won't do so.

Now down he sat again, and in one throw lost horses, hounds and chariot.

Will you play again?

Asked the beggar.

Are you making game of me, man?

What else have I to stake?

I'll stake all my winnings against your.

Wife, said the old man.

A Storyteller turned away in silence, but his wife stopped him.

Accept his offer, said she.

This is the third time, and who knows what luck you may have?

You'll surely win.

Now they played again and the Storyteller lost.

No sooner had he done so than to his sorrow and surprise his wife went and sat down near the ugly old beggar.

Is that the way you're leaving me?

Said the storyteller.

Sure I was one, said she.

You would not cheat the poor man, would you?

Have you any more to stake?

Asked the old man.

You know very well I have not, replied the Storyteller.

I'll stake the whole now wife and doll against your own self, said the old man.

Again they played, and again the Storyteller lost.

Well, here I am.

And what do you want with me?

I'll soon let you know, said the.

Old man, and he took from his pocket a long cord and a wand.

Now, said he to the Storyteller, what.

Kind of animal would you rather be?

A deer, a fox or a hare?

You have your choice now, but you may not have it later.

To make a long story short, the Storyteller made his choice of a hare.

The old man threw the cord round him, struck him with the wand and low.

A long eared frisking hair was skipping and jumping on the green.

But it wasn't for Long who but his wife called the hounds and set them on him.

The hare fled the dogs followed.

Round the field ran a high wall, so that, run as he might, he couldn't get out, and mightily diverted were beggar and lady to see him twist and double.

In vain did he take refuge with his wife.

She kicked him back again to the hounds, until at length the beggar stopped the hounds, and with the stroke of the wand, panting and breathless, the storyteller stood before them again.

And how did you like this sport?

Said the beggar.

It might be sport to others, replied the storyteller, looking at his wife.

For my part, I could well put up with the loss of it.

Would it be asking too much, he went on to the beggar, to know who you are at all, or where you come from, or why you take a pleasure in plaguing a poor old man like me.

Oh, replied the stranger, I'm an odd kind of good for little fellow.

One day poor, another day rich.

But if you wish to know more about me or my habits, come with me, and perhaps I may show you more than you would make out if you went alone.

I'm not my own master to go or stay, said the storyteller with a sigh.

A stranger put one hand into his wallet and drew out of it before their eyes a well looking, middle aged man to whom he spoke as follows.

By all you heard and saw since I put you into my wallet, take charge of this lady and of the carriage and horses and have them ready for me whenever I want them.

Scarcely he said these words when all vanished, and the storyteller found himself at the Fox's ford near the castle of Red Hugh O'Donnell he could see all, but none could see him.

O'Donnell was in his hall, and heaviness of flesh and weariness of spirit were upon him.

Go out, said he to his doorkeeper, and see who or what may be coming.

The doorkeeper went.

And what he saw was a Lank grey beggar man hath, his sword bared behind his haunch, his two shoes full of cold rode awayish waters souousing about him, the tips of his two ears out through his old hat, his two shoulders out through his scant tattered cloak.

And in his hand, a green wand of holly.

Save you, O'Donnell, said the lank grey beggar man.

And you likewise, said O'Donnell.

Whence come you, and what is your craft?

I come from the outmost stream of earth, from the glens where the white swans glide, a night in Islay, a night in man, a night on the cold hillside.

It's the great traveler you are, said O'Donnell.

Maybe you've learned something on the road.

I am a juggler, said the lank grey beggar man, and for five pieces of silver you shall see a trick of mine.

You shall have them, said O'Donnell, and the link gray beggar man took three small straws and placed them in his hand.

The middle one, said he, I'll blow away, the other two I'll leave.

Thou canst do it, said one and all.

But the lank grey beggar man put a finger on either outside straw, and whiff away he blew.

The middle one does a good trick, said O'Donnell, and he paid him his five pieces of silver for half the money, said one of the chief's lads.

I'll do the same trick, take him at his word.

O'Donnell, the lad put the three straws.

On his hand and a finger on either outside straw and he blew.

And what happened but that the fist was blown away with the straw?

Thou art sore, and thou wilt be sore, said O'Donnell.

Six more pieces, O'Donnell, and I'll do.

Another trick for thee, said the lank grey beggar man.

Six shalt thou have.

Seest thou my two ears?

One I'll move, but not the other.

Tis easy to see them, they're big enough.

But thou canst never move one ear and not the two together.

The length gray beggar man put his hand to his ear and he gave it a pull.

O'Donnell laughed and paid him the six pieces.

Call that a trick?

Said the fistless lad, anyone can do that.

So saying he put up his hand, pulled his ear, and what happened was that he pulled away ear and head.

Sore thou art, and soar thou it be, said O'Donnell.

Well, O'Donnell, said the lank grey beggar man, strange are the tricks I've shown thee, but I'll show thee a stranger one.

Yet for the same money.

Thou hast my word for it, said O'Donnell.

With that, the length gray beggar man took a bag from under his armpit, and from out the bag a ball of silk.

And he unwound the ball and he flung it slantwise up into the clear blue heavens, and it became a ladder.

Then he took a hair and placed it upon the thread, and up it ran again.

He took out a red eared hound, and it swiftly ran up after the hare.

Now, said the link, gray beggar man, has any one in mind to run after the dog?

And on the course I will, said.

A lot of O'Donnell's.

Up with you, then, said the juggler, but I warn you, if you let my hair be killed, I cut off your head when you come down.

The lad ran up the thread, and all three soon disappeared.

After looking up for a long time, the length grey beggar man said, I'm.

Afraid the hound is eating the hare, and that our friend has fallen asleep.

Saying this, he began to wind the thread, and down came the lad, fast asleep, and down came the red eared hound, and in his mouth the last morsel of the hare.

He struck the lad a stroke with the edge of his sword, and so cast his head off.

As for the hound, if he used it no worse, he used it no better.

It's little I'm pleased.

And so I'm angered, said O'Donnell, that a hound and a lad should be killed at my court.

Five pieces of silver twice over for each of them, said the juggler, and their head shall be on them as before.

Thou shalt get that, said O'Donnell five pieces, and again five were paid him.

And lo, the lad had his head and the hound his.

And though they lived to the uttermost.

End of time, the hound would never touch a hair again.

And the lad took good care to keep his eyes open.

Scarcely had the lank grey beggar man done this when he vanished from out of their sight, and no one present could say if he'd flown through the air, or if the earth had swallowed him up.

He moved as wave tumbling, or wave as whirlwind following whirlwind, as a furious wintry blast, so swiftly sprucely cheerily right proudly, and no stop made, until he came to the court of Leinster's King.

He gave a cherry light leap, or top of turret of court and city of Leinster's King.

Heavy was the flesh, and weary the spirit of Leinster's King.

Twas the hour he was wont to hear a story, but send he might right and left not a jot of tidings about the storyteller could he get.

Go to my door, said he to his doorkeeper, and see if a soul is in sight who may tell me something about my storyteller.

The doorkeeper went.

And what he saw was a lank, gray beggar man, half his sword bared behind his haunch, his two old shoes full of cold roast away with water southsing about him, the tips of his two ears out through his old hat, his two shoulders out through his scant tattered cloak, and in his hand a three stringed harp.

What canst thou do?

Said the doorkeeper.

I can play, said the lank grey beggar man.

Never fear, added he to the storyteller.

Thou shalt see all, and not a.

Man shall see thee.

When the King heard a harper was outside, he bade him in.

It is I that have the best harpers in the five fifths of Ireland, said he, and he signed them to play.

They did so, and if they played the link, grey beggar man listened.

Hurst thou ever the like?

Said the king.

Did you ever, O King, hear a cat purring over a bowl of broth?

Or the buzzing of beetles in the twilight?

Or a shrilled tongued old woman, scolding your head off?

That I have often said the king.

More melodious to me, said the lank grey beggar man, were the worst of these sounds than the sweetest harping of thy harpers.

When the harpers heard this, they drew their swords and rushed at him, but instead of striking him, their blows fell on each other, and soon not a man but was cracking his neighbor's skull and getting his own cracked in turn.

When the.

King saw this, he thought it hard.

The Harpers weren't content with murdering their music, but must needs murder each other.

Hang the fellow who began it all, said he, and if I can't have a story, let me have peace.

Up came the guards, seized the lake, gray beggar man marched him to the gallows and hanged him high and dry.

Back they marched to the hall, and who should they see but the lank gray beggar man, seated on a bench with his mouth to a flagon of ale.

Never welcome you in.

Cried the Captain of the guard.

Didn't we hang you this minute?

And what brings you here?

Is it me?

Myself, you mean.

Who else?

Said the captain.

May your hand turn into a pig's foot with you when you think of tying the robe.

Why should you speak of hanging me?

Back they scurried to the gallows, and there hung the King's favorite brother.

Back they hurried to the King, who had fallen fast asleep.

Please, Your Majesty, said the Captain, we hanged that strolling vagabond, but here he is, back again as well as ever.

Hang him again, said the King, and off he went to sleep.

Once more they did as they were told, but what happened was that they found the King's chief harper hanging where the lank grey beggar man should have been.

The Captain of the Guard was sorely puzzled.

Are you wishful to hang me a third time?

Said the lank grey beggar man.

Go where you will, said the Captain, and as fast as you please.

If you'll only go far enough.

It's trouble enough you've given us already.

Now you're reasonable, said the beggar man.

And since you've given up trying to hang a stranger because he finds fault with your music, I don't mind telling you that if you go back to the gallows, you'll find your friends sitting on the sword none the worse for what has happened.

As he said these words, he vanished, and the storyteller found himself on the spot where they first met, and where his wife still was with the carriage and horses.

Now, said the lant gray beggar man, I'll torment you no longer.

There's your carriage and your horses and your money and your wife.

Do what you please with them.

For my carriage and my horses and my hounds, said the storyteller, I thank you, but my wife and my money you may keep.

No, said the other, I want neither.

And as for your wife, don't think ill of her, for what she did.

She couldn't help it.

Not help?

It not help kicking me into the mouth of my own hounds?

Not help casting me off for the sake of a beggarly old?

I'm not as beggarly or as old as ye think I am.

Angus of the broth.

Many a good turn you've done me with the King of Leinster this morning.

My magic told me the difficulty you were in, and I made up my mind to get you out of it.

As for your wife, there the power that changed your body, changed her mind.

Forget and forgive, as man and wife should do.

And now you have a story for the King of Leinster when he calls for one.

And with that, he disappeared.

It's true enough.

He now had a story fit for a King from first to last.

He told all that had befallen him so long and loud laughed the King, that he couldn't go to sleep at all.

And he told the storyteller never to trouble for fresh stories.

But every night, as long as he lived, he listened again.

And he laughed afresh at the tale of the Link gray beggar man.

Thank you for joining Freya's fairy tales.

Be sure to come back next week for Settle's journey to holding her own fairy tale in her hands and to.