Beyond a nervous tummy, discover the diverse realities of childhood anxiety and empower your child to thrive as we shine a light on childhood anxiety in this insightful episode. Discover how to navigate those jittery nerves and unlock the power of being Comfortably Uncomfortable. Learn to turn worries into stepping stones, not stumbling blocks, by understanding the impact of anxiety and empowering your child to rise above it. This isn't just understanding, it's action – a roadmap to resilience and growth for children and the adults who love them. Build a supportive community, and watch your child emerge stronger, one anxious thought at a time. 

Anthony Perl: In this episode, Andrew Greenfield looks at anxiety and the broad ranging impact we're seeing on children of all ages. It's one for parents not to miss. I'm Anthony Pearl and you're listening to the Being Comfortably Uncomfortable podcast.

Andrew, I wanted to open a big, broad subject here, um, that I think, I feel as though we're going to end up talking, uh, a lot about in future episodes as well. And the topic of anxiety that has become a very common diagnosis and it covers such a broad range of, uh, of things. Talk to me a little bit about, you know, the overall definition of anxiety and those different areas that are coming underneath it.

Andrew Greenfield: In terms of anxiety, we've got to, anxiety can be a huge Umbrella term for lots of different factors. Often we call talk about a generalised anxiety disorder, but accompanied with that, we can also have things like social phobia. Um, we can have PTSD. We can have obsessive compulsive disorders. They all come under the umbrella of anxiety, and it's going to affect different people for different reasons and in different ways as well.

So the umbrella term is generalised anxiety disorder, but that's going to be quite broad. Different for each individual as to how that affects them, and you might have a combination of social anxiety or social phobias, um, and OCD, or you might have, um, a panic disorder, um, again, that's going to affect you in different ways.

So, um, anxiety is going to mean different things for different people, and it's important to, again, get a specific proper diagnosis of that from the appropriate professional. And they would go through, you know, we would go through the diagnostic criteria of what anxiety is and how it affects you specifically.

Anthony Perl: Are there some warning signs that parents might be on the lookout for to, to see whether a child is maybe struggling with some kind of level of anxiety should send them down the path of getting a diagnosis, or at least starting down an assessment in the first place?

Andrew Greenfield: Yeah, and and some of these warning signs, I guess, can be quite obvious where a child perhaps has a panic attack before an exam because they're worried about how they're going to perform.

So that is relatively obvious. Um, they might have difficulties going to a party because they're, it's a, they get a little bit anxious when there's lots of people around. Um, and. They might have a change in sleep routines and, um, they might have a lack of confidence and keep them to keep to themselves. So there's a whole range of different, um, they can even have physical symptoms like chest pains or nausea and dizziness at certain times that can also excessive heart rates and sweaty palms that can be like physical symptoms that the kids can have.

So we've got to often it's also looking out for a particular change in anything. So normally when your child's incredibly social and they no longer wanna be that social, well that's a cha. So that's a change that we need to be aware of. Normally when they're having difficulty sleeping or getting to sleep, where normally they wouldn't have that difficulty, that could be a sign as well.

So it's important to look at any particular changes, and that's going to be, you know, particular to each individual child. And we all know our own kids best. So it's about trying to just be aware of what those, what those changes are and how it affects your individual child.

Anthony Perl: And I suppose there then comes the next level is, is treatment, which is obviously going to vary depending on the kind of anxiety they have.

But I think the 1st question for a parent is, you know, generally speaking, is anxiety treatable? Um, and is the answer always medication? Um, or are there other things?

Andrew Greenfield: Yeah. So in a lot of cases, in the more severe cases, a child may go to developmental pediatrician or even GP or psychiatrist and they might be prescribed medication and that can certainly help in lots of different ways, but not in every case.

So there's lots of things that can be done to be able to help kids with, with, with anxiety. And, um, you know, often. Often we talk about the whole point of, you know, a child might be anxious, well, they might be uncomfortable. We talked about living with uncomfortability. So, um, to me, it's about making sure that that child is okay with feeling a bit uncomfortable some of the time.

For some reasons, hence the, you know, the, the title of the podcast. So learning to be uncomfortable and you're going to be uncomfortable when you're anxious or when you're worried or when you're, um, you know, you're, you're, you're frustrated or you're embarrassed. You're going to be uncomfortable for all of these different reasons.

Often what we try and do is we, you know, we try and. Learn to to be able to we often try and switch that around and try and become more comfortable, but that process Of trying to become more comfortable can exacerbate the issue in the first place. So We've got to make sure that we try and turn that struggle switch off sometimes and learn to accept being a little bit uncomfortable some of the time.

And that's a really basic premise for, I guess what's called acceptance and commitment therapy. Acceptance and commitment therapy. Um, otherwise known as act. Um, so, you know, we've got to make sure that we don't struggle with being uncomfortable because that itself can, can, can, can further perpetuate the issues.

So, that's something that I talk to kids about every single day and we talk about what makes them feel uncomfortable and talking in detail about that can, normalising it to some degree as well. It's, it's

Anthony Perl: such a interesting area, anxiety, um, in that it feels in many respects that it's a newer diagnosis and that older generations struggle with.

Uh, that sort of terminology and it's sort of, you know, embark on the, well, just tough love. We'll sort it out, but that's no better these days. That's not really the answer. Is it?

Andrew Greenfield: Yeah. I mean, you know, that's often how people used to do that, you know, 50 years ago, but. It didn't necessarily mean that they dealt with it particularly well, so, you know, it may look like they ignore the issue, but that I guess the difficulties came up in other ways, where there may be more prone to being angry or frustrated and let it out in other ways.

So, you know, it's never going to be the answer just to kind of let it, you know, just to ignore it and make it go away. It's important to. For some of the younger kids, I always try and put, you know, put a scale to it so you can maybe use an emotional thermometer for the younger kids where, um, you know, there's a certain scale of how angry are you or how upset are you?

How embarrassed? How frustrated are you? Um, kids will tend to catastrophise everything. It's always the end of the world. It's the worst thing that could have happened to me. Well, when we start to break it down and talk about what happened. Um, How they felt about what they did about it once you start, you know, going into detail about the actual event itself and what it meant for that particular person, they often realise, well, it's not the end of the world and it's not the worst thing that could have happened to me today.

Um, and it's so important and what I get them to try and do is to actually change the words that they use rather than catastrophising words that are catastrophising. So it's the end of the world is the worst thing that could happen saying, well, This is what happened, you know, I had a bad day at school, but just because I had one bad day doesn't mean that every day is going to be, or maybe one friend didn't talk to me and that made me really upset.

Well, maybe because that person wasn't, you know, wasn't feeling that well, or they weren't interested in what I was doing, or they had a, you know, that there are particular reasons. As to why that one person wasn't interacting with me today. But tomorrow is a new day and you know, we'll see how it goes tomorrow.

So trying to put everything into perspective, I think is really important as well. Um, and not realising that just because something happens, it's going to happen all the time every single day.

Anthony Perl: Well, it's such an important thing, isn't it? Because, uh, you know, I find that, um, when it comes to that area, we live in a day and age where we're of self gratification, um, that, you know, people are used to posting on social media and getting an immediate response and making an assumption of things in a very generalised way.

And so that idea that, um, something happened today and therefore the whole world's going to end is. a more common response these days than perhaps it used to be.

Andrew Greenfield: Yeah, uh, and I also use probability, which might sound a little bit strange, but I talk about, a child may say, I have difficulty getting to sleep and it's going to keep me up the whole night because I'm worrying about everything.

So often I talk about, uh, or they might say I'm scared of the dark or there's a noise and that keeps me up. So one thing that I often do with, well, I guess some of the younger kids and even some of the preteens, we talk about saying, well, if you're 10 years old, you've been around for maybe 3, 650 days on this planet.

But out of those 3, 000 or 3, 500 days, how many times have, and they might be worried about a noise that they've heard and that perpetuates the next night and the next night. How many times has there actually been something that you've seen that has been an actual reason that you should have been away?

And the child thinks about it and they maybe look at their parents and they say, well, Uh, well, I thought there was, I said not, not what you thought. How many times has it actually been something that you should have been concerned about that Would have absolutely kept you awake and they say, well, no, not, not that many times I can't actually think of anything.

And then I asked the parents, how many times have you walked past the child's room and said, well, hey, you, you know, you should be afraid. You should be concerned. You should be, um, it's no wonder you can't get to sleep. And they say, well, no, not one single time was there actually something there. So it points out to the child out of the almost three and a 3, 600 days that they've been on this planet.

Not one single time has it actually been something that they should be concerned about or afraid about. It was just a thought. And it was what their thoughts, um, that they got carried away with their thought. Well, what's the chance for the next 3, 600 days, is there going to be actually something there that you should actually be concerned about?

It's very unlikely. So I've started to get them to think a little bit like that. Um, and I often say, well, if there is actually a reason as to why you should be concerned about the dark or, or uncertain noise, your parents will know about it at some point as well. So they will make sure their job is to make sure that you're safe under any circumstance.

They will make sure that if there's a reason that you shouldn't, that you should be awake or that you shouldn't fall asleep or you shouldn't feel comfortable, they will let you know. You have to learn to trust your parents and the other adults that are around you. So, um, trying to give them some control over that, I think it can be helpful to some of the younger kids.

I say, well, you take control. You can maybe line up all of your, all of your fluffy toys for some of the younger kids and they, they, they can keep guard and they will let you know if there's an actual monster there. If that's the words that they're using. I don't want to put words into their, into, into, you know, into their mouths, but yeah.

When they use these type of words, I will say, well, these fluffy toys can look, look after the monster or some of the younger kids even have a piece of string with a little bell. And if there's anything that's going to come near you, we'll know about it because the bell, the bell's going to ring. So, you know, we've got to get these kids to take some control over actually what's happening in their emotions as well.

And just giving them some of these skills can actually be quite helpful where they realise, Hey, I'm in control to some degree. It's not all, it's not all out of my control completely.

Anthony Perl: Yeah. And I think you talked about it earlier, that whole idea of emotional regulation, um, and having, you know, as a parent, There's the helping your child through it, there's the strategy, I suppose, as you're saying there of helping the child recognise, um, and then I suppose then the extension of all of that is, is the area around schooling and, and, um, because it doesn't always happen in that the anxiety occurs in a, in the home environment, it can happen as you talked about earlier in a school environment around tests and, uh, and those sorts of things.

So. How do you keep those strategies going for with, with, with schools and with teachers, particularly in both primary and high school?

Andrew Greenfield: Yeah, and it can be incredibly difficult within those environments because there's a limit to how much you can control within those environments. So, um, again, if you have a specific diagnosis, it's important for the, for the teachers and the people in those schools to be able to be aware of what you were diagnosed with, and they can at least help you through that to some degree.

But. Um, it can be incredibly difficult within those environments because it is out of your control. Um, so, um, again, there are certain, I guess, strategies in place where, for some of the younger kids within the primary schools, they can have someone that they can go to, or two or three people, unconditionally, when they feel a bit uncomfortable, and they can talk to that person about their feelings or how the day was, and sometimes that's all it takes.

Is just going to talk to someone completely unconditionally where, you know, they won't judge you at all. And it could be the deputy principal, it could be the person in the office, it could be the school counsellor, you know, if and when they're there. So, it doesn't really matter who it is, but at least you know that no matter how you're feeling, there's always someone that you can go to.

It's a little bit harder within the high school environment because when you're feeling anxious, you don't necessarily want people to know, or it can be, you know, it can be very embarrassing. Um, so kids are less likely to be able to speak up or to be able to go, to go to someone. I often say, if your child has, um, you know, has this underlying difficulty that's there, it's important to communicate with the school and make sure that at least they're looking out for your child and checking in every now and then.

So it comes from other people rather than from the child because some kids will never want to talk to anyone about it. Um, because they feel very self conscious about that.

Anthony Perl: So just to wrap things up around anxiety. And again, we welcome your questions. If you've got any for future episodes, because I know we're going to talk about this again. I guess the important thing with someone that has a child that's just been diagnosed with, with some kind of anxiety is knowing what's the implications for what that will mean for their future.

So

Andrew Greenfield: having anxiety doesn't necessarily mean. That have to be a negative. It's important to realise. Well, that's just one part of you. It doesn't define you being anxious. Some of the time doesn't define you nor should nor should it. Um, but it's important to realise. Well, there's lots of things you can do about it, whether it's from a medication point of view or whether it's a whole lot of strategies that you've got a toolbox that and you can pull out any of these strategies at any one time.

Everyone has some different. We're gonna be anxious at some point at some time about something. So it's important to realise that it doesn't have to stop you from doing something or going somewhere. You can still have some level of uncomfortability without it actually, um, interfering with your day to day, day to day life.

So people cope incredibly well, even with anxiety of any kind. People cope very well with opposite with with with with OCD with even panic attacks to some degree because they've learned how to control that so it's certainly not not going to, um, doesn't affect people. in terms of, um, uh, in terms of jobs or, or, or, or future, um, prospects for them.

Instead, again, as long as you're aware of that difficulty, it's important to learn how to manage that. And I think that's the key.

Anthony Perl: Thanks for your company. And please see the show notes for how to get in contact with Andrew Greenfield. And don't forget to subscribe for future episodes.

Andrew Greenfield: And remember, it's important to learn how to be comfortably uncomfortable some of the time.