On this episode Joseph is talking to Gemma Rabbini from Coach & Bloom. Gemma is a Career Confidence and Impact coach, helping senior level ambitious women in CX, Marketing and Brand confidently navigate 'squiggly career' moments. 

On this episode we discuss the challenge of choosing a coaching niche and ways that Gemma has developed her own. Gemma also talks about having different niches and the way that you can go about creating yours.

Hi everyone, and welcome to this latest episode of Coaching in Focus.

I'm Joseph, your host, and also the founder of Become Coaching

and Training, which is an ICF accredited coach training school.

And on today's episode, I am in conversation with the very wonderful.

Gemma is a coach who predominantly works with women.

She's got a background in marketing, and we thought it would be wonderful to record

an episode on finding your coaching niche.

Now, Gemma shares a few tips both from her career in marketing, having spent many

years working at John Lewis, but also she talks about how she herself found her own

coaching niche or niches, or super niche as we'll hear in a little bit as well.

I find this idea of niches intriguing because for me, coaching is coaching and

we put, we can potentially coach anyone.

It doesn't have to be within a specific niche, although it does help

having a bit of an idea what type of clients we actually want to work with.

But at the beginning of your coach training program, or if you're a

newbie coach, then I would suggest not to be too hung up on finding

your niche, because this takes time.

And as we explore on this episode, those initial challenges perhaps that we might

go through really help us to develop our self-awareness in terms of, Hey, what

type of clients do actually want to.

So let's listen in to the podcast episode, and I hope you find it useful in

exploring your own coaching leash as well.

Well, Gemma, it's so nice to see you on the podcast today.

How are you doing?

Yeah, really well, thanks to having me.

I'm excited to

be here.

Same here, same here.

I'm looking forward to our conversation.

We're gonna talk about coaching.

And for those of you who don't know, Gemma, uh, the very lovely Gemini, uh,

is a career confidence and impact coach.

And you've also completed our diploma in interpretive coaching.

And you currently mainly work with women, right?

With ambitious women, typically are on customer experience,

market marketing, brand.

Um, tell us a bit more about.

. Gemma: So, um, my background

So I spent 13 years at John Lewis working in branding, brand communications,

marketing, and I left there, uh, a couple of years ago and found because

I found that my career had over time, just moved more and more towards people.

And I'd met amazing women over my career that had brilliant.

Brilliant skills experience, but just were suffering with imposter syndrome.

Not really able to sort of put themselves forward in their, in their careers.

And when the opportunity came to take redundancy, I thought,

right, this is your opportunity, Gemma, to do something that is.

Purposeful, but also plays on all your experience that you've had

in the working corporate world.

So, um, so yeah, so now I run Coaching Bloom, which is a, um, a, a company

that supports women to be, to get the big jobs and to be the best

that they can be in their careers.

That is what got you into coaching, noticing that you

wanted to work more actively with.

So it's really interesting because over my career I was aware of seeing these

women and, and kind of working with them and seeing their limiting themselves.

But what really got me into coaching was when I experienced it for the first time.

So I came to coaching quite late in my career at John Lewis.

So I was there for 13 years, as I say, and I only discovered.

Probably two or three years before I left and I had an amazing coach,

um, who was internal in the business.

They have a coaching banker, Johns and I went to this coach Dom for

support with leadership because I had a really difficult relationship

with my boss and I thought it was me.

And so I kind of said, you know, I need.

Up my game in my leadership and over the course of, just in the first conversation,

it was the, it was such a different conversation than I'd ever had before,

and it was so eye-opening and it made me, it just turned everything on its head.

It was absolutely game-changing for me, and my reflection was, I

wish I'd had this earlier in my.

I wish I'd had access to this at a point where I had my first promotion when I was

first managing a team, when I was changing departments, any opportunity, I looked

back over my career and thought, oh gosh.

How different would it have been if I'd had that support earlier in my career?

Um, I'm intrigued a bit more about your niche.

I mean, I know the topic today is really about, you know, finding

your niche and specifically how you went, uh, about to do this.

So I was trying to.

Boil the ocean when I first started to look at coaching and because

coaching can be a really generous, um, kind of engagement, I guess

you sort of wanna help everyone.

Coming from a, a family where I was one of three girls being taught kind of, you

know, girls can do everything that boys can do, like there's no restrictions.

And then going into a corporate world where people were, I was

seeing more restrictions, I was quite motivated to support women and I

knew that that's what I wanted to do.

My mom gave up work when we were really young.

She had like a first class degree from Oxford and she gave up her

career to look after us girls.

Um, and it was just really interesting that women put so

much restriction on themselves and they make so many compromises.

So I was like, women definitely.

But then as I.

Was setting up my business and I was starting to coach more and more people.

What I realized was that when I kind of tell my story of where I've been,

it was feeling like that was the old world of being in the customer space,

being in marketing and branding, and this was kind of a coach Gemer.

This was like a new version of me.

Don't just pretend you don't know about the past, and it was feeling really

incongruent because actually what?

What makes me have a connection with the people that.

That I coach is that I, I do understand their world.

I've been in their world and I know the sorts of things, the

language that they use, the sorts of things that they talk about.

I get it really quickly.

And so when I was, so my, my niches kind of.

Evolved over time, as I probably have become more confident about

putting those two worlds together.

Um, and so now coaching, you know, heads of, heads of customer, heads of brand,

heads of customer experience and those type of people, I, I looked back at

kind of who I was coaching and I was like, they are already in that space.

They are attracted to me probably because I'm from that same world.

, they're coming to me for a different thing.

They're coming to me for coaching around imposter syndrome and,

and kind of lack of confidence.

They're having senior roles in businesses, but they're just wanting to progress some

of that because they've had perhaps time off, or perhaps they've just been, they

feel quite passed over for promotions.

and what you mentioned there is, um, is that, and correct me if I'm wrong

here, but what I'm hearing is you tapped into what's important to you, right?

You tapped into your values, you tapped into your strengths, you tapped into

the industry experience that you have, and in a way you joined them together

to, you know, carve out your niche.

What I'm really hearing is the importance of knowing who you are,

knowing what it is that, that you want to do, kind of that reflective process.

Yeah.

Way is key.

Absolutely.

And it, and it's taken a while, like it has.

Mm-hmm.

, it wasn't something that I just landed on and thought, you know, brilliant.

It was.

actually something I consciously put in a different box.

Don't tell anyone that I used to do this.

Mm-hmm.

, you know, let's just focus on what I am now in this sort of reborn

version post, you know, post taking the opportunity of redundancy.

Yes.

And it just became a really, felt like I was sort of leading two lives.

Like, oh yes, you know me from Gemma, the marketing person,

but I'm not that anymore.

I'm now Gemma the coach, and I've got all this different insight and

actually, You know you are right.

It was about going back to who do I want to serve?

You know, if I wasn't paid for it, who would I work with?

Hmm.

Especially as working through, you know, this, these big organizations, you

notice some of the challenges that people who, um, you know, women specifically

in those situations might be facing.

I was really, I really like the way that you phrased a bit around

language, you know, that you can enter coaching conversations.

In a more heightened mode in a way because you understand the language.

Um, but I also think you also understand the feeling that somebody becomes true

to those sessions, which, um, if you encounter, I dunno, if you were, who

would, a woman who, who feels, uh, in a particular way, I would imagine that,

you know, based on your experience, you might be able to resonate with that as

well.

Yeah.

Which kind of helps.

Yeah, certainly.

And just, you know, when, when sometimes when I'm working with clients and I kind

of, other people in the past sort of come to mind, I'm like, . Oh, you know the, no,

everyone is unique obviously, and everyone has their unique challenges, but I'm kind

of, I build a bit of a picture in my head and I'm thinking, gosh, I've seen that.

Like I've seen the person you've described, you portraying, and I've

worked with those people and I've worked with those women and I wonder if they

were feeling like you are now and, and almost just those missed opportunities to.

, those women in my past that I've seen, you know, super confident and,

you know, going to all the parties and being, and then I wonder what

happened when they closed the door.

Um, and you know, maybe they were absolutely fine, but it's really

interesting when you kind of get to go under the bonnet of the people who are

responsible for delivering amazing work.

And then it's very human nature, isn't it?

You kind of put on a facade and, and when you are in an in, when you're in

an industry, typically quite confident, quite positive, quite forward going.

Um, it's easy for you to pretend that you are always feeling

like that.

Yeah, something goes on my mind is around cuz something, you know, one thing that

we say a lot in coaching is that it's, it's easier to coach people who you don't

know, you have less kind of experience of.

Um, but at the same time we were also talking about how.

Having that connection can really help to build that partnership

between coach and client.

So I'm just wondering how do you, is there any, are there any tips that you

could share around how do you stay as a coach and not shift into mentoring,

for example, or consulting when you're working with somebody who shares quite

similar things that you can resonate?

So kind of, um, profound.

It's so interesting because it's really easy to make assumptions in

that environment because if someone's saying, you know, we had a Black Friday

deal and this, you know, supply came in late with money and da, da, da,

da, and they like to tell you about what's going on because they know

that you are in that world sometimes.

So I.

The techniques that I use is that I'm re, I am very, very conscious of it all

the time because I know I could go into, oh, I know that's a nightmare, you know?

Oh, I've been in that situation myself and that's not helpful.

And so a lot of the time I just, I am consciously aware and I will often just

write stuff down just to get it out of my head If I'm thinking something

and I'm kind of just to, so it's down.

Um, sometimes I do do that in a discovery call.

I do.

Overtly and say, I know we are both from a similar background, so if at a time I feel

like we are talking more shop than we're talking about you and your reactions, do

I have your permission to just, to just kind of call at that and get back to you?

Because you need to get what you need from, from the

sessions that we have together.

You've got lots of people you could talk to.

The stress of the last minute supplier and the creative execution that got

supplied in the wrong month or whatever, you know, so let's stick to you and,

and actually, yeah, and with women as well, you do have to probably overtly

do that because they're not as used to talking about themselves in a, how can

I move myself forward in a positive way?

A lot of it is, , you know, this is what I'm doing for other people.

This is what I'm doing at work.

And, and I think almost to say, this is your space for, and you can talk

about whatever you like, but actually this is your space to work on you.

I don't need you to tell me that you are to prove your credibility in this

head of role that you've got, and I don't need you to tell me about the

ins and outs of the campaign Manage.

For you to be justified in being here and, and, and us talking about you

and your reactions to what's happened.

Yeah.

Um, so yeah, so

great, great contracting.

Essentially what you're saying in there, isn't it?

You, you contract really well with your client at the chemistry meeting, at

the start of session, you've got your permission to gonna pause if they're

moving more towards shop rather than

themselves.

Yeah.

And people tend to really appreciate that, strangely cuz they just sort of go.

. Yeah.

That would be what happened with like, and it's quite funny and you can have a laugh

with it, and then in the sessions you can.

You can play with it a bit and, and sometimes people use it as

a defense mechanism as well.

When they're not feeling that comfortable about talking about

the impact on them, they'll just go into, you know, do you know about,

you know, econometric modeling?

And I'm like, I don't, I don't really, I do, but that's not really

important.

This is not the time . So the other questions I've got in mind is

around, um, in terms of niches, can somebody have more than one niche?

You know, you're talking about women, you talk about marketing here, you know,

what are your thoughts around that?

So even though I say my niche is around kind of, you know, marketing,

customer experience, and senior women in those roles, they won't be

in senior roles if they drop out of employment at the point where they

come back from maternity leave or they don't come back from maternity leave.

So I guess, I guess in some ways I have like a super

niche, which is mums in market.

That's kind of my absolute optimal kind of niche because they, that is,

that's the moment in their career when they're, when they might be

tempted or might be feel forced to drop out of the employment market.

But actually, if I don't work with those women at that point, they might never

become people in those senior roles living their dreams and actually being

able to be the best that they can be.

You know, just for the sake of a few coaching co, you

know, sessions at that moment.

So I suppose in some ways I kind of have two niches.

I have this kind of senior level women in that kind of,

that industry and that space.

But then I also have a almost a, almost a sort of a moment in your career

kind of niche, which is that squiggle.

your confidence is really low.

You feel a lot of imposter syndrome.

You're not the same person as you were before and you're coming back into the

job market feeling just really quite suboptimal in, you know, in a lot of ways.

And if you don't, Navigate that.

And I didn't have help to navigate that when I came back

from both my maternity leaves.

And I look back now and I think, gosh, I was a broken person.

I really was.

And there was things I was doing to try and make up for it.

There was, you know, I got like a styling appointment and you

know, clothes are important.

They affect how you wear, how you feel about yourself.

But I was trying to pretend that I was looking the part because inside I wasn.

Feeling the part at all.

So I thought, well, if only I could just gloss over.

And in hindsight, it's really easy, isn't it, to say, obviously that's

what was happening at the time.

I thought I was being really proactive and powerful and you know, creating this.

But actually what I needed was that help, emotional support to just probably, and

it probably would've involved tears.

It doesn't always need to, but just to kind of get out some of

that stuff and to start building up so that I could be a future.

Head of marketing, customer experience, whatever in, in the future.

Yeah.

Um, so yeah, really interesting.

Yeah,

that pausing right, that pausing and, um, which is what coaching does, uh,

to be able to kind of help us understand what's currently happening rather than

do everything in an automatic way or just do something instead of something else.

Just gotta put plaster on something, a band-aid moment.

So again, we're going back to things that you're passionate about.

Yeah.

In terms of your niche or self niche or your super niche and the second niche.

Um, so, so you know, one thing that we always get, you know, whenever

I speak to new coaches, Uh, it's a question that comes up all the time.

Like, do I have to have a niche before I start training?

Um, I personally don't think you do.

I think at the beginning, I mean, there's a couple of things.

I think firstly, when you enter a coach training program and you start

learning more about coaching, you find out more about yourself and

what it's that you might want to do.

So there's that.

And secondly, going into something like that, holding a niche really tightly in a

way, stops you from seeing everything else that could be really amazing and fantastic

and that you could really enjoy doing.

So I always say to people, look, don't worry too much.

Like your niche will come.

You know, like, , it takes time.

Like you mentioned earlier, it's not something that you wake up on morning

like this is what I'm gonna do.

Um, how

was it for you?

What do you think?

I complet agree.

So I did not have this niche.

As I said, I was trying to separate my two lives, so I didn't have a niche when

I went into coaching and it was this generosity of spirit of I want to help

everyone, all women in all walks of life and actually, , I had to do a lot of work

on massive bits of paper on a three bits of paper and just writing down who do I

want to spend time with, who do I enjoy?

What sorts of people do I enjoy being with?

Because I think coaching is such it.

It does take energy and it does take.

You know, you have to be passionate about helping that person.

And I know you can coach, you can coach anyone, but actually if you're doing

it for people that you, you know, and you like, and you, you kind of, you

have that rapport with, yes, there are some watch outs, but it is so much

more enjoyable to be in an industry where you're, when you're doing that.

And I think I, I spent loads of time just writing down things.

About what I wanted to do, what, who I wanted to help, how I

wanted the world to be different.

What, you know, the sorts of industries I could credibly say I've worked in.

So some of this is about credibility, some of it's about passion and, and

that, and what's important to you.

Um, but I think.

, I probably would've struggled if I'd had a niche right at the

beginning and held it really tightly.

I think I needed to go through that, that evolution of thought to say,

here's all the people I could help.

Let's narrow it down consciously and almost filter down what you know and

to the next level, to the next level.

And they, they do say you can never have a tight enough niche,

you know, if you can niche.

Whatever it is, gender or you know, geography or whatever it is, you're

gonna niche on, niche down more.

How can you niche down more and almost go down through three levels

of nicheing to kind of get to a, it almost feels like you are too specific.

And I remember hearing someone talk about going into a room and you have

to be confident and comfortable that you will probably potentially, unless

you've really nailed the targeting of the event, probably gonna alienate 70.

of the room, but that 30% that listen to you, you will be exactly what they need,

but you have to be comfortable to not.

Be serving and say no, you know, not serve those people.

If you are really passionate about it and there's no rules about it, so if you

wanted to, you've, it's all within your gift to choose to support that man who's,

you know, completely out, but for some reason you really think you can help them.

That's, that's still allowed.

You can still, you can still do that, but I think just the

clarity of having this is who I.

And having a really clear view on why that is.

And for me, it's quite a selfish reason.

I just like the people that work in that space.

I like the energy usually that they have.

I like the, what they're being asked to do.

I understand it.

. And that for me is, gives me more kind of comfort and, and, and

kind of, yeah, I guess just an enjoyment of the job that I do.

So,

and also, I mean, you are the marketing expert here, um, but from

a marketing point of view, it's great because people also see you that way.

You, you know, you've got a certain expertise that.

Goes beyond you being the coach or a coach in a specific field, for example.

And it's also easier for people to find you if people are

searching online for a coach.

If you, if you've got a very specific niche, then people can

find you more easily as well.

Although then from the other flip side, I think something that is

important to mention, and this is how I feel, uh, it'd be interesting to see

what you think is that the majority of what we do though in a coaching

session tends to be quite similar.

Like the skills that you learn if you are an executive coach are gonna be very

similar to the skills that you would use if you are, uh, I dunno, a personal

development coach or obviously not sports coaching because it's something can be

different.

That's absolutely right.

And that's, that's almost.

, that's really amazing.

But it's also kind of the, the flip side of that is it, it's actually

you could coach anyone about anything and then how are you different?

So people have to recognize that they have a problem, that you can help solve

it for them, and that you are the one who's gonna solve it best for them.

So whatever you do to set out your stall in terms of, this is my specialism.

albeit I'm gonna, you know, alienate most of the whole of LinkedIn cuz

they're not working in this area.

But this is my specialism.

This is what I love to do and this is how I help people.

And you know, people.

and people don't pay for coaching.

They pay for an outcome, they pay for a solution.

No one's gonna say, oh, I'd like to have six months of coaching.

But they will say, I need to get a more senior level job.

I'm frustrated in my current company and I know I could be ahead of,

but I just need some, you know, I need something to help me.

Yeah, so.

So somebody would automatically think, oh, I need to get a career

coach because I'm talking about career.

So they wouldn't be looking for a live coach.

And uh, and if that's what you're passionate about, then labeling

yourself in a positive way.

Um, a career coach can,

you know, help you connect with yourself.

Absolutely.

And I think also with careers, you know, career coaching, is, it's important and

it's gonna get you a specific outcome from a financial perspective often.

So I think there's quite an interesting balance in just

cuz the pricing is different.

Like there's a lot of other things that people might assume about life

coaching versus career coaching.

So if life coaching is what you need, mm-hmm.

and actually that's gonna really get the change that you want in your life.

That's amazing.

If it's a, you know, yes, it might be very similar techniques.

and approaches, but applied in a, in, in a different context.

You've got kind of, there's, there's a very specific outcome

usually that people will, will kind of want in that, in that space.

So,

yeah, which I guess is the five or 10% is different and what people would do.

Right.

We're using more or less similar type of things.

, but what the client comes into the session with, um,

can be different.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And I'd love to keep on talking about this, but we've only

got a couple of minutes left or so.

So, um, so in terms of perhaps somebody who, uh, who, who, who is thinking

about this, you know, they're asking themselves, do I need to niche?

what kind of support can we give them?

What kind of helpful tips

can we share?

I think I would encourage people to get a big blank piece of paper

and think about, mm-hmm , who do I enjoy spending time with?

Who do I want to help?

What sort of a difference do I want to make?

And asking themselves some of those key questions around

what's I, what's important to me?

And also, The credibility questions.

Where am I?

What industries am I credible in?

What sorts of ex life experience have I had that I'm passionate about?

So it's not about saying everyone will have experienced

depression in the same way I have.

Everyone will have experienced redundancy in the same way I have,

but actually writing down the life experiences that you've had.

And when you look at all those things written down,

sometimes some themes jump out.

So, i'd, I would always encourage people to kind of look

for where are the similarities?

Are there kind of areas, the sorts of people in the industries

you have, you know, affinity with or enjoy being part of?

Is there some links there and almost building yourself a story of.

where am I credible and where am I passionate?

And those are kind of the two things that, you know, in our

conversation today that seem to come through quite a lot, aren't they?

Um, because there's no point doing, I think you've just gotta love your work.

And as, as coaches, we, most people tend to be.

Very passionate about helping people.

So you almost have to, I think, go back to what's gonna fill you, what's gonna fill

you with joy, what's going to really help you get up a bit outta bed in the morning.

And if you can start from that point and keep as close to that point as

possible, you'll be onto a winner.

I think in terms of a niche.

Mm-hmm.

. Joseph: Mm-hmm.

. Yeah.

I fully agree with that.

I think that's a really lovely idea of, you know, spending a bit of time,

spending an hour or so and just, you know, or journaling or drawing or

something that gets those idea on paper.

There's something quite magical about the process.

Right.

Just to kind of get it all down.

And the other thing for me is not be too hasty in it, as in like one being kind

to yourself that you might not have the.

And that's okay.

And secondly, that your niche can change.

You know, I was thinking about my own career.

I start, I, I called myself.

I think at the beginning I used to call myself an executive coach, and

then I could see myself shifting in terms of what I wanted to do.

And then I'll moved into more career coaching and then I shifted again.

So it's okay to shift.

You're not, I mean, I'm not changing drastically in terms of

my coaching, but you know, you kind of keep on chipping away.

because you learn more about yourself, you learn more about the

people who you want to work with, and also you change as a coach as

well.

Yeah, yeah.

Because different challenges might come up and you say, I really enjoy

people, supporting people in that way.

And actually, what would that, what doors would that open?

Fantastic.

Um, and it's such a nice positive way how to end today's episode as well.

Mm-hmm.

, uh, I can, I can imagine a few of our viewers and listeners, um, you know,

getting out a three piece of paper and shutting down all your ideas,

other paper, and do share other paper sizes do exist for a three For me,

not very.

I think it's like a vision board, isn't it?

Like you need something that creative.

Yeah.

Oh, so, so nice.

Jama, I just spent a bit of time with you.

Once again.

Um, thank you for, you know, talking about your niche, talking about

your business, telling us a bit more how you, you know, how you're

developing your niche and, um, and

we'll speak soon.

Amazing.

Thank you so much.

It's been a pleasure.

What a great episode with.

So nice to discuss this idea about coaching niches in above a flexible way

as well, and not having a rigid process in terms of how to find your niche.

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