“Worry is worshiping the problem.” We’re not sure who said it first, but we thought it was well worth sharing and discussing. 

This week, we share our personal experiences with anxiety and how we deal with it. We also discuss the pros and cons of motivation and it plays into building a business, diving into the modern day misconception that building a business can be done with minimal hours and work-life balance. Finally, we debate whether remote work is more beneficial or harmful for businesses and employees.

Takeaways

• How to identify the root of your anxiety and methods for handling it better
• Motivation can come from external sources, but inspiration needs to come from within
• Building a business requires dedication, hard work, and long hours
• Remote work may lead to a loss of productivity and the absence of valuable mentorship opportunities

View full show notes here.

Welcome to the 200 % Life Podcast, your weekly insights to spiritual growth and business success with Adam Hergenrother and Hallie Warner.

We have a big agenda here today, which is awesome. But one of the first things that I had on here that I wanted to kind of tackle first is you said, how much time do we lose to anxiety and worrying is worshiping the problem. I love how you said that. one of the things that I've been, you know, I know, but it's like, have to give credit where credit is due. You put that in parentheses. I should have actually read that on there.

It's from somebody, I don't know who actually said it. Yes, somebody said that, it's really good. Worshiping, worrying is worshiping the problem that's there. Yeah, which is anxiety. Exactly. And so by the way, it's all, every piece of worry or anxiety is really just imagined in the mind. And then you're basically living it inside and that experience. And then that's when you go.

even further to the personal mind to get it and you start asking it questions. What can I do? How can I basically all you're trying to do is get rid of the feeling.

And so that's when I like, I'll tear that person down. I'll sue them from over here. I'll, you know, I'll spread rumors about them or whatever it is. you just, mine's just go. that how your anxiety manifests? Because mine is very much more like internally focused. People do a bunch of stuff. But one of the things that I've been doing is there's been some, some anxiousness, kind of like anxiety over some few different things that have been kind of shown up in my life. And so one of things that I've been doing is I've been, I've been, and it's really fascinating.

I can see it like showing up and then like the ego, self -concept, personal mind, again, it's all the same.

And I see it getting anxious and I literally like talked to it and I heard Michael singers say this one time I said there's nothing wrong with your higher self talking to your lower self So again, anyway, you want to look at that and how I've said that to me because he's using a different context I just was like look dude if you want to worry this is literally my commentary. It's actually been very effective for me That's why I'm sharing it and it's like look if you want to worry that's fine If you want to be anxious about this, that's fine, right? I'm not gonna be

drawn into your worriness, right? And I'm literally talking to myself in there right about this. And I said, you can have it. You can be as worried as you want. And then I just kind of, again, relax, release, kind of let that go. And it doesn't instantly go away. But what I've been finding is within 20 minutes, I forget that's even worry. I forget that's even there. And then it'll pop back up and I go, fuck, it actually kind of worked. Because there's no energy attached to it anymore. Do you, I actually know people like this and I think I'm a little bit like this too, but when that comes up, do you?

Are you trying to figure out what, cause sometimes I don't know what it is I'm worrying about or what I feel anxious about. Do you try to identify what it is first or do you just like, because I want to solve the problem. So I go, okay, well, what is it that's really causing me this anxiety right now? Is it a work thing? Is it a relationship thing? What is it that's making me feel this way so I can solve it? Do you do that or do you just go right to?

the releasing. think I pretty much know the problem. so I don't know if I actually need to evaluate, like usually through journaling, I'll, I'll like, I'll I'll find a like, okay, well that's a money thing or that's a boredom thing or that's like, cause this for myself thing, whatever it is. I've identified that and then it'll start re like, it's like self bullying in there, right? It just shows up in the most random times you drive into the office or you're driving to get your kids or whatever it is that you're doing.

And all of a it just reminds you of the problem that you haven't solved yet or that you can't solve, right? Because that's what it's doing. So once you've identified it and it takes time to solve problems or on wine things or whatever it is. And so when it shows up and then it starts like.

almost like hitting you over and over again of like, feel this. And it's like, at some point, I just, don't know what happened. It was just like, I saw it so clearly and I was like, if you want to be like that, that's fine. If you want to be worried or anxious, that's fine. I'm not going to be. And it was almost like you gave it permission, your self concept to go do its own dance and be worried. Then it was like, well, if I'm not going to get your attention anymore, it's almost like an ignored guests quickly leaves. Right. I use that, that, that quote.

on here before, but that's kind of what it is. Like you're just, it's just a way, it's a practice of no longer giving worry or anxiousness, worrying, you're not worshiping the problem anymore. And worshiping the problem in that use of that word is kind of fun to kind of use in that context. All this is giving it energy. So typically what would happen in my experience, right, is over time, like you...

Problem shows up either it hits you right then you get an email of phone call you get sued employees walk out You know, I you know, got a text there today somebody lost, you know multiple employees of their company and they were in a problem So whatever it is, right like those things happen so, know what the problem is and then you go, okay Well that now you now you have to deal with the problem. But while you're trying to deal with the problem you have this personal mind

hitting you over the head. you're a terrible leader. Course this is going to happen. I don't know. It says a whole bunch of things in there, right? But to me, that's not necessarily anxiety. That's problem. I need to deal with it. For me, and maybe this is just a different definition of it, but for me, the anxiety is if something shows up and you need to solve it or you need to take action, like I don't necessarily have anxiety around that. It's just like, yeah, maybe it's uncomfortable or maybe it's a little stressful because

You don't necessarily know how you're gonna solve it, but at least you know what the problem is and you know that you're working on a solution. For me, it's more of what you talked about in the beginning with that anxiety where it's just like, it's just these feelings of the future or ruminating on the past because at least those other things are in the present and you're dealing with them. For me, the anxiety comes with the past and the future. Obsessing. For both of them, it's still the same.

inner experience that you're having, right? It's just manifesting different ways. again, going back to the first one, then I'm going to actually talk about yours for a second. when those...

show up, a lot of people, because you can't usually, like again, if three employees leave right away or whatever it is, you can't solve that immediately, right? Like you can get a game plan together and you get strategic, you can go out there and you can No, but unless you're taking action. Yes, you can take action on that on different things. Or if a lawsuit comes in, those are like the worst, right? Because then you're like, you know, you can't do anything immediately. You can call your attorney and talk to him, which most people do. And then you do start thinking about like, well What happens, case scenario. it's like you start imagining about some, that's what I'm saying, some future event or I wish it was,

wish I hadn't done that action, I wish I never hired that person, they never would have brought this lawsuit against me, whatever it is, right? start, mind starts going back there to kind of like quiet the noise. And so in that frame of reference, that's when you can go.

Look, I understand there's a challenge here. I understand there's something we need to work through. But if you want to worry about all of this, you go worry, I'm not going to be worried. That was just kind of a self -talk for that. As it relates to like not knowing or like what's going be in the future or whatever it is, you can't put a pinpoint on that. There's two exercises. One, think, I do think like a journaling exercise would be very effective of trying to actually pinpoint where does this energy come? I've talked to you about this before. For me,

If I start to feel anxiousness or stress or when I do, I still do, right? And when I do, I can always somehow point it back to money.

It's always, yeah, I know it's not, we differ on this, but for me, and it's probably the way, again, this is like how we grew up, everyone has a relationship with whatever it is, and it was clearly for me, because then can always pinpoint it back somehow to that. And then when I'm not in any level of anxiety, or even when challenges are showing up, I can pinpoint why, because money, it's something along, it's never really.

was like the stardom or fame or any of that for me, it was much more, and like that's why I don't, even like how other people think, like that was never, look, it's important, right? I'm not saying it's not up there. It was never the top one. And so I just gotta be careful because I can have plenty of money and something small can go wrong and I can feel like it's horrible. Or like, for instance, like I can also like be in a phase where it's like, you have ton of money and something small shows up and I don't give it the attention that it needs.

even though because I'm like, you know, it doesn't matter or whatever it is. So it can happen both ways. I just have to pinpoint that back to what that is so that I can then at that. Again, if the personal mind jumps in or the ego jumps in, you can say, well, you want to worry about that? That's fine. I'm going to I've always gone through anything and you can just I'm still here, right? I'm fine. Again, you who is in there is fine. Just and that's where I think you can really in all of you are really doing there. And this is the

basis of the 200 % life was just that you are able to handle life. You're able to handle reality. You have these inner experiences, you have these outer experiences. The outer experiences are awesome, they're challenging, they're flawed. Again, we were talking about before, you're never really gonna agree with every single person. You shouldn't agree with every single person. You're gonna not agree with other people. You're not gonna like what other people do. You're gonna have all these different things that go on. It's just part of the experience that you're having.

But this inner experience that you're having as well too at the same time, we're just, we're so tied to having it, wanting it to be the way we want it to. Our first reaction for most of us when we hit inside is to want to go fix it outside. Instead of actually fixing the problem inside and then being able to handle whatever is happening outside. And that's the same thing, like whether you're imagining for the future or you're imagining about your past or trying to figure out what you're going to do in your life. Any of those things is first, well, how come I can't be okay being bored?

And that's one of the things that I've actually used in my own self. and we started to actually ask my mom.

A couple months ago, I like, was I ever bored as a child? Because my kids in the middle of summer, was like, I'm bored. want to do something. I'm like, we just spent three quarters of our day doing something. You have one hour and you haven't done anything and now you're bored. And they're like, well, and I'm like, yeah, that's our problem. like it's, and so I'm like, what's wrong with being bored? And then, so what I watched was naturally, cause I didn't let them get on the electronics, right? Cause we have pretty strict rules around that. And so they naturally were bored, were bored. And they just went outside and started making trails. And then they've been making trails and they built this whole thing. Then it led to building another thing out there.

I felt like I heard something about boredom one time that it's not, it's like, gosh, I wish I remembered what it was, but it's less about like, it's just like not knowing what to, I mean guess it's what boredom is, like not knowing what to do next, rather than, I don't know, I might be butchering whatever this is, I gotta look it up.

but it's not like, I what is boredom? What's the definition It's just an inner state that you're experiencing. a state of like being uncomfortable. Yeah, I mean, it's really, and we've labeled it as boredom. Boredom, And so what I always go with that is like, again, so I watched my kids kind of naturally go through that cycle and do that. So the same thing for me and for most of us as adults, when we get bored, what do we do is we actually don't go and figure out the reason why we feel bored and we go distract ourselves so we don't feel boredom.

And so the difference of what I'm trying to do in my life right now is it doesn't matter whatever angle, whatever I do out there, whatever I don't do out there, it's much more in terms of the world, it's much more about how do I get rid of that first so that it doesn't show up whether I'm CEO of a Fortune 100 company or if I'm sitting in a farm somewhere. So that way you can handle whatever is out there for you.

And that's part of the exploration phase of what you're doing. is like, it's like, how do I go deeper into that uncomfortableness? It's that pain that releases all pain, right? It's literally the pain that passes all pain is what they refer to us for thousands of years. And that's what that is. Whether whatever emotion you're going to, the more you can lean into it, the more deeper you can go to get it out of there. So then it's not bothering you anymore.

because it's only when it bothers you that people go then outside of the world and take action, which is why it feels inauthentic for most people. And so you can't, that's why part of just sitting in the boredom is the best thing that you can do. Because then when you're there, you actually get rid of that and then it becomes clearer as to what you're supposed to do. And a lot of people that go on this personal growth journey, get...

pretty far along the line and then they just want to go back to something solid instead of leaning into something that's not quite so solid and getting rid of it then it becomes clearer. And that's part of like this, whether again with anxiousness, worriness and I think the general tone that I felt from individual business owners that I've communicated with over the last you know probably 90 days is that more people are worried.

in general right now than they have been in a while. And so this question is coming up a lot more. And it's not that like, again, we even talked about the construction industry before it happened, it's like for four years, I never got a call from any subcontractor looking for work, right? And now all of a you're getting calls from people coming in, they're looking for work, and it's not that they need it now, but what they've recognized is I'm about to wrap up this job in the next couple of months and I'm not bidding on others.

and I built all this big system, I have all these people and it's a machine, but where's the work? And what I've seen from developers is that six months ago, a year ago, we had people pull out of a contract that we had because they got budgets back and it was too costly to build a multifamily unit, which in our market, those things go in half a second and rent it up, but it was so costly and interest rates are so high, it'd still be a bad investment. And so the people are pulling back from these big projects,

And so now all of sudden it's not like it's a deck that takes three people to do it. And we were talking hundreds of people that are gonna be on these big projects. That's what's starting to pull back. And so you're seeing this kind of phase come in again, which is part of a retraction phase or contraction process that happens is now people have to refine. And this is why unemployment start taking up. Because then the business owner wakes up and goes,

50 people here and this is literally a conversation I had like a month ago with a Builder they go I got about he said 47 employees and he goes I really don't need 13 of them and So I don't need 13 of them. Yeah. Yeah, and so he went out there and basically let 13 of them go and now more even more recently it's like well

if we don't have a place for the other five that I've kind of added on last couple of years and we're going to strip them away too. So that's again, you're starting to see that and then they're going back out there and they're looking for whatever jobs they can take. And that's why we're even seeing in the bidding process for construction stuff right now, we're seeing four bids come up at a hundred grand and then one bids coming in at 60. And again, sure, you have to check quality, you have to check those things, but we're going back down.

I just gave that as an example, but it's it may have been 80, right? But you're now starting to see the guy that worked for the other company come in there and offer 80 because they doesn't have the overhead, he doesn't have the staffing. And so that's what happens in these kind of new efficiency models that need to happen everywhere. Which is why don't know if you happen to catch, we're switching gears here a little bit, but did you listen to Elon Musk and Donald Trump? No, I thought you were going to actually talk about what this is reminding me is of the all in.

podcast, which I listened to recently about Google being, they're talking about breaking up Google.

And so it was just reminding me of some of like the downsizing that they're talking about if they do in fact break it up between YouTube and Search and Android all of the others like five big big sectors that they're gonna actually likely eliminate a ton of jobs because People were hiding. Yeah, people are like hiding and you don't really know what they're doing But once it's broken up then the other thing is that they're also shared. I mean, I think I was thinking about I heard about their companies at this point like one person might be shared across

those different things which actually could potentially increase staffing in some of these areas if it's a they need you know two HR people for each of the different organizations if they in fact break up but

But yes, it also would potentially allow for a lot more transparency and maybe a lot of people losing their jobs. Well, what was it? I've just seen recently that just another couple of different companies just laid off individuals. I don't know why I even brought it up, because I couldn't remember. It was like 1 ,200 people that just got laid off from anyways. don't remember. What's the media company? Access? Not access.

No. Something like that. just laid off some people. I mean, I literally just got an email this morning. It was just one person. But one person just emailed me this morning. She is an executive assistant and said, I just got RIF, so reduction in force. And I'm just like, God, I mean, I'm hearing about them a lot. And that's the thing is you and I are hearing about it and sentiment on there before the numbers show up. We're usually 45 to 60 days ahead of that. And the same thing with real estate. That's why I'm sharing this is like from like what we're seeing. I even told you is like if you want to do a construction project, give it a lot of quotes.

or wait a little bit. I know because I think we're going to see a drop in terms of at least in the Northeast for construction costs because they've gone too high. anyways, was the same situation like when Elon and Donald have that conversation. I think it was like last Monday and they broke all sorts of records. There's a number of people on there. think they're actually they weren't actually. was you know, people can listen to it and have their own opinion for what it is. But one of the things that Elon talked about in there like two or three times, he asked to be on this efficiency committee

yeah, you mentioned this before. Yeah. And he brought it up again, like, two or three times. Elon is For government spending. Exactly. Because he literally is the individual that creates a tremendous amount of efficiencies with the organization. Even though, again, whether you like Twitter or X or don't like X, he basically dropped 80 % of their employees, and it's still running, essentially, if not better than what it was. I'm not think about how he even went about and built SpaceX. It was literally from

Well, well, hold on. think about this for a second. Boeing, right, had Boeing and SpaceX got two contracts to get basically to build a space shuttle to be able to bring people and stuff back and forth to the moon, right? To the space station. And they were both awarded it. And Boeing just did their first one this year, what, 14 years, 15, 14 years later, and they're still stranded on the space station. SpaceX, by the way, has done 13 successful missions in there with a fraction

of the budget that they did and Boeing had and SpaceX may have to go and rescue these individuals from Boeing if they can't get by the end of August another answer for this. again this was and I forget how Elon awarded but he didn't take nearly as much money and he went out there and they've had 13 successful missions and this is Boeing's first one and now they're stranded basically and if you can read all the issues that Boeing's had and all that stuff. Again this is just the

The point is, like these efficiencies are gonna start happening in businesses. This is why we could actually end up in a marketplace where earnings are up for companies, but revenue is down or markets are decreasing. We could find ourselves even in a recession and yet earnings are still stronger for the majority of companies only because

all of the cost savings reductions and efficiencies that companies are doing right now, even though revenue's dropped and we're in a depression, a recession, like two consecutive quarters of negative GDP is what's defined as a recession, but companies earnings are actually up because of all the cost savings and reductions and kind of restructuring that companies are doing right now. So that'd be kind of a really, think, but Elon was talking about how that's why he wants to go into the government.

and basically do the same thing. And I'm not saying I'm not voting for that, I'm not voting against it. I'm just there definitely needs to be more accountability for the spending in general. I was using Vermont as an example of this, which I've been pretty public about is because we are being asked to this year specifically to do basically special tax assessments on everyone's household to fund the school budgets. And it's not necessarily that it's not teachers' fault. And most people pass it because they want their school systems to be there.

to teachers to be able to do this stuff. But it's really interesting if you look over last 30 years, our spending has increased so much per pupil and our grades in terms of the assessments that we take has dramatically declined. So we wake up and we say Right, so what are they spending the money on? Well, my point is like when you hold up a card or a report to anybody that says, we're spending a lot more money and we're declining in value.

And then the answer is, we'll just spend more money. And that's where the efficiency has to go in and say, well, something's not working here. It's not even necessarily efficiency. In my opinion, could also just be, maybe that's what you mean by efficiency, poor allocation of resources. For me, efficiency makes me think of, let's be more productive. Or too many people. Yes.

It's kind of like the Google thing. the wrong things or not doing people just in there in general that are just like getting in the way. Yeah, well it's...

We've run businesses like that and we've seen it, right? in government in particular, and I'm assuming in schools and municipalities, I believe are similar. I worked in one almost 15 years ago. It's very difficult to let people go. And so you keep people on with poor performance for years, sometimes for their entire career, because I don't know why. Whether it's unions, or I'm not saying there's anything wrong with unions, but whether it's unions or it's just...

I mean, that's why people like government jobs. They want a government job because they're just like, I can just kind of like ride it out for 20 years. Motivation. As a new entrepreneur, talking recently to employees turned entrepreneurs, motivation came up as an issue. Most of us in the group were intrinsically motivated to perform or achieve for someone else, our boss or our company. Now without that, motivation is lacking.

Is that a question? That was kind of a question that I had for you. Yeah, that was a question. And it's like, do you need to find, I mean, I know that we say motivation is, somebody else can't motivate you. I understand that. Motivation is an internal thing. It does need to come from inside. I've also heard a lot of people that I like to listen to and follow are like,

fuck motivation, just do what needs to get done. Like who cares if you actually want to do it, who cares if you're motivated or not. And I generally agree with that. Like if there's stuff like being just disciplined and like who cares if you feel good about it. And yet I do still, I still think that motivation is an important thing to talk about because that does, this is what helps you choose what to work on. That does help you feel connected to the cause that you're working on. does.

I do think there's some value in knowing, understanding what motivates you, understanding what motivates other people and then being able to tap into that for the good of the company, the good of the life, whatever. What do think? Well, think, I think somebody, other people can be sparks for people. I think that's certainly true. Like you can listen to a podcast. Yeah, you can read a book. get inspiration. Yeah, or you can go, you you you listen to somebody talk about their Iron Man they did in a podcast and all of a you're like, want to go.

get trained to do a triathlon, doesn't have to be a full Ironman. that's motivation per se. Or like, you know, you go listen to somebody who just started a business and talk about how difficult it was and talk about, you know, the benefits that had in the cons and all that stuff and you get inspired by it, right? Or motivated from it. But it has to be deeper than that, right? Because the surface spark is enough to kind of get people going. That could be a mentor. That could be a doctor telling you that you're unhealthy and you want to go out there and do that. It could be all these different sparks that are there. But like I always like Tony Robbins

like in the early 80s said motivation is like a warm bath, right? It feels good for the moment, then it goes away. And that's how I've always kind of felt about motivation is it can be like that spark. It can feel good for a few minutes, but inspiration has to intrinsically has to come from within, right? You have to be willing to do that. You have to be willing to master the boredom, right? mean, Gary Keller has said that. One of my mentors has said that many, many times about mastering the boredom of making peace with the boredom of it.

in doing the work. think there's a general, here's my perspective on, I've been thinking a lot about in terms of like out of office work, in office work.

the last four years of people working, we touched on this a little bit last time about how people are just naturally looking, I, as a friend of mine, quit being a principal and going in a completely different direction after being in the school system and wanted to change, all these different things. What direction are they going in now? Well, I think they applied for a nonprofit job. interesting. Like a board of directors. directors. Something along those lines. Yeah, because they're being a good fit. Yeah, exactly.

basically cited for like regulation and the lack of being able to do stuff because it's so, it's so bureaucratic. Yes, exactly. Yes. Yes. I actually had a really good friend that was a CEO. think I've talked to you about him before that was running a major hospital and left because of this. They basically couldn't, it was the same. It was the same procedural process of what is anyway, ran a house hospital outside of Vermont because it didn't have the same care board restrictions as we do here in par. Some hospitals are run more like corporations. Yes. Yes. Exactly.

Anyways, there's this, you know, I think just my this is coming from my own experience building a if you so this came from a from a young entrepreneur their first year into building their business and they're like it sucks. It's really hard and they had this general lights just went out

But just from the real, there we go, they're back on. Just as general sense, and it's got me thinking about this conversation. I kind of walked in and said, yeah, the first five years of building any business is really challenging and really hard. But they had this impression that like they could work 30, 40 hours and go, where did you get that from? And they're like, that's what like it was almost like that was like the tone of that age group of getting into business that I could build a multimillion dollar business and having this work life balance and making it perfect and working 34 hours and then just being off.

And I sat back and thought about this and I gave that my advice was like, look, if you want to work 30 to 40 hours a week or 20 hours a week, that's awesome. That's your prerogative and that should be there. But you shouldn't then be thinking that that's going to lead you to running a major as a CEO of a major company or building a major business. Do I think I'll get to that. I'll put a pin in office work in a second here. This is we'll come back to it. But I just remind it is like.

That has to, like when I was building a business and when you were right there building these businesses with us.

It didn't feel like work to me at all. And so I mean, it was never like a non -off period. Sure, you can take the time, protect some time from your family, but even when I was on vacation, I was still responding to emails. I was still taking phone calls. All those things that normally did, again, because you're the founder, you're building these things, you're addressing the issues. These things come up and you just got to do it. You almost have to be on all the time. I don't know what else to tell anybody else that wants to build a business is it's going to, you have to just embrace the suck as we used to say for five to seven years.

and you're gonna be grossly underpaid for a while and then hopefully you become grossly overpaid for a period of time. But if you want to, that has to be your own journey and nobody else can do that for you. But I think people have lost that and thinking that, I should just be able to just leapfrog into these next eras. And I just remind people, like, it doesn't mean it's wrong, by the way, to go work 80 hours a week. There should be no judgment. So I feel like people are being judged for going out there. And in my life, I don't wanna do that.

But I did do that and I would never judge anybody for going out there. And at the time you weren't saying I don't want to be doing No, not at all. This is what I'm doing. And I enjoyed it. of it. Now of course, 90 % of it. I just think there's too many conversations of like, yeah. Sorry you did that to me. Because I would have. But you know what's so funny about that? I could have gave two shits that you texted me while I was out.

whatever, I could have cared less, but the people I was with, they had a huge issue with that. I'm like, whatever, it took me two seconds to deal with it, and I'm like, I'm in it, like, I don't give a fuck. And they're like, I can't believe that just happened to you. And so it's actually other people who got the problem. That's what I'm saying, because I was listening to bunch of people talking about this, and they were like, where are you getting this information that you can build this business that you were trying to build for this industry? I'm like, what you're trying to

that's why you're getting paid more money is to actually be on as part of these different things. So I just, I think there's, I think there's an era that we went through a COVID and people like just backed off from almost all work for a period of time. it is also the younger generation. And you know what I think a lot about this? So it's got me thinking about this. So I also think that, when we moved out of office, people stopped having really good mentors.

And I don't mean mentors, the one that are like assigned to you, like, hey, I'm going to, how I'm going to, that's what I'm saying. Like mentors or like the people that you could just be around in a meeting and listening to how they talk. You may never even talk to them. But like you're around the CEO, you're seeing what they're doing. You've seen that they're there early. You're seeing that they're working later. Right. You're like, you're seeing the books they read. You're seeing them, you know, in the hallway, they're you're the pop in questions that they're answering for those things.

That's what I think people are missing as role models or mentors is they're actually missing that. And then they only see these things online where people like stay home, work and make millions of dollars. And like they're almost buying into the fact that they're doing something wrong because they're not able to actually do that. And I just want to set the record, that's not wrong. you...

If you want, yes, are there jobs where you can be a sole proprietor or by yourself and schedule your own hours and make a hundred, 200, yes, there is, there's plenty of them. If that's what you want to do, that's awesome. But if you want to be the CEO, not just of like a one person show or like having a couple of virtual assistants, which is nothing wrong with that life. But when you wake up and say, I want to run a company or I want to build a company that has, you know,

Hundreds of employees or whatever is a certain number of employees and employees, right? It requires a whole different attitude and a whole different effort. And I just I think people forgotten that I think part of that is because they're no longer watching the hard work that goes into Well, I also think they're big part of it is we go and I'm actually really glad that you say this because I think are talking about this because Quite honestly even a lot of times on the podcast will talk about

work life presence or make sure you do all of these like six hour morning routine. I'm exaggerating, you know what mean? Like all these things. What I think the problem is a lot of people that we follow specifically and even that other people follow, they've already done the 10 to 15 year grind and the hustle and they've been, and now they are like, let's do a four day work week. Let's do, you know, I only work 10 hours a week, right? I mean, you even talk about like only working, I don't know.

30 hours a week or 20 hours a week towards the end of after you built something for 10 or 15 years. And people are hearing the new entrepreneurs or even employees are hearing that and going, okay, well, guess that's what I need to do. I need to make sure I have a three hour morning routine and I take a break during lunch and I end my work day at five. That's why I said it the way I And they're shaming us doing the hustle culture shaming or whatever. When really to your point, and I completely agree with that, like if you truly wanna

And I actually, and I've talked to some of my newer entrepreneurs that I talk to.

I'm like, you could work only 20 hours a week. I just said you have to just manage your expectations that you're either going to build what you build. It's going to, you're going to build it a lot slower or it's just not going to get to the necessarily the number that you may have in your mind, but it's, you can do it, but you do get stuff to manage your expectations. think you run into a risk of somebody else coming in there and working 60 hours a week while you're working 20 or 30 and they just blow your doors off. I will say, yeah, it depends on what you're doing. Cause if you're doing more of a life, I say lifestyle business. And all I mean by that is you're, you're basically,

owning your own business in order to replace what maybe your your previous income out corporate That's not really a company to me. I wouldn't say it's company. Let me just clarify actually. Are you saying that's them by themselves? Yeah, maybe have a team of ten people. Yeah, maybe ten or ten people or less. And really let's be honest what defines a company. I mean is the youtuber who's making five million dollars a year not a company?

I don't know. I don't really think maybe not. I don't think it is. Yeah. To me, is a, again, that is a sole proprietor who makes a tremendous amount of money, right? Just like an athlete can make a tremendous amount of if he doesn't own the sports team. He doesn't have a business. Sure. Well, he may have a, yeah. So yes, I generally do agree with you. I'm thinking that like this sports person, have lots of brand deals. They maybe own a media company. They need to do blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But,

Yes, I do think it's a little bit different when it is a solo. I say solopreneurship is different than building that's the part of it. The thing, though, is they're seeing those people, and they expect they're going to be able to do that in a different line of business that requires other employees, not just somebody who is a video producer or an editor doing your own content for you. Yeah, but even like I'm thinking Dan Martel, he wrote the book Buy Back Your Time. He definitely has a business.

And I'm sure he engaged in hustle culture. That's my point. But he does have an actual business, even though now most of what he's doing is writing books, coaching, teaching. He still has a business in the background that he's running similar to. Look, if you can if you can build a business up in 18 months or two years and then move yourself out, that's awesome. think having a being a podcast or do you not think that's a business?

I know I do think it's interesting like where's the line between like I think it's yeah to me it's somebody that's it's media right so you could have a media company. Ferriss not a... What is happening with Tim Ferriss by the way? don't know but I do wonder like I'm actually curious like he I think he announced that he was going on a sabbatical or something no I don't know I know I just happen to look

And he's it's been all repeats of I'm just actually curious for the last like almost two and a half months. I think he's probably reevaluating. Yeah. that's what he wants to do. Clearly. Yeah. Right. Like he just just literally took a hiatus and is trying to figure out which is great. I mean, I think there's a lot of that in there. And I'm glad that he actually would do that. At some points, he does a lot of work with I don't know the correct term for it, but with psychedelic drugs for therapy, there's like a new

One, can't remember the term for it, but I know he does a lot of work around that. Maybe in the background more. So I don't know, maybe that's taking up more of his time. But anyway, I don't really know where we're going with this. All I'm going is... I think a podcast can be a business, right? I think it certainly can. can make the claim for those things. I guess I'm referring more to, like, and if that's something that somebody wants to do... you still work a shit ton if that's what you're doing. If you're actually like, that's your business. Absolutely.

You know, there's a whole bunch of things that go into I would take somebody like Joe Rogan and think about his podcast has been successful, but how much energy and effort did he put into being Joe Rogan to be able to do the podcast first? Joe Rogan is the business. That's what I'm saying. Ferriss is the business. Yes. He built a tremendous amount of those two things up and have built and put in a lot of energy and time before that to be able to do that. Even like you think about the All In Podcasts, which is, I don't know, they're the number

podcast in the world. say they are. say they are. I can't find them on the charts. So anyway, so let's just if they if they are beginning, but all four of those guys are working 15 hour. mean those guys are all working heavily involved in all businesses. And then they actually then they that's what makes them so successful is the fact of what they've done to be able to then bring it to the media for what that is. Yeah. My whole point is just the whole motivation piece. And I want go back to the in office is I just I'm hearing a little bit almost like it was almost like this individual was trying to

figure out what they did wrong because

they were having to work more hours. And I was like, no, no, no. That's all my point was. Look, building a business is gonna take a tremendous amount of energy. It's very rewarding, even through the very challenging times, because then you can look back and go, it's funny because when things get calm, you go, I almost want a ripple, right? And then when things get really ripply, you go, I want it to be really calm. And so you just learn to just go, there's gonna be ripples, there's gonna be calm periods. You're gonna get through all of it. Also, I was gonna just say for...

anyone who's thinking about building business, I do think that you need to define what that does mean to you. Because even just this conversation, we're just like, is that a business? that a business? Exactly. It doesn't really matter what we think about what a business is. It's more about what does building a business actually mean That's the point of the conversation here is just to remind people that if working 90 hours a week feels really good to you, then you should go do it. That's not wrong. I mean, again, that's why Elon Musk literally has all the people that work with him sign up for that.

they actually know it's like when people would go back in the Wall Street and work on Wall Street, they knew they weren't going there to have a work life balance, right? Like when you go to work on Wall Street, particularly back in the day before COVID, like when you were like, when I was graduating in 04, like if you want to go there, it was 80 hour work. mean, I literally like every interview was like, it's going to be 80 hour work weeks. You're working six days a week, probably answering emails on your seventh, just understand with, and people like, let's go, right? I'm so excited to go part of that, which is a whole part of it. I'm not saying it's wrong. So I think we should stop

We should stop if somebody wants to go build a business and they're seeing them dedicate themselves to do that. We shouldn't penalty Penalize them. I don't know the penalty. That's not the wrong word We shouldn't like again not I'm saying shame either but we shouldn't look down on them go like you need more Don't tell them what they need to do because I think that's where some of these entrepreneurs are almost feeling that of like well people are telling me I should take more time off

and you go, well, do you want to? And you go, I'm actually really enjoying what I'm doing right now. Then, okay. Then maybe you do work on a little bit. I guess every individual case you can work in those different things. My point is that it's when you're doing it, I think, and I also think we should, I think you're missing a lot of key things, not being in the office. And I think that we're gonna look back in this time and we're gonna lost a lot of productivity because people were not in the office, particularly in businesses that really should be. I just know when I was running a business,

it feels completely different when I was running it fully remote to then when I was running it in office. And for the first year, you didn't get away with it.

because everyone was there. But I look back on the last couple of years and to me that was one of the big things. I got burnt out being on every single zoom call. Even I started switching to taking phone calls. You missed the little pieces. you missed like how many, when we were building things, how many side chats did we have? How many like pull -ins and like strategy sessions and kind of, then I'd pull somebody else in and they would come in there and we just have all, it's not water cooler. Some are talking about like drama stuff. You're talking about business things and pulling that together. And that's like, and I see that sentiment coming in

from lot of other CEOs who are going, I grandfathered people in, now every new person has to be in the office and they need to. It's funny, I think it was Dell, I think it was Dell, that basically said, fine, anybody can work remotely. They said this like 18 months ago, but you're not going to be getting, you're not gonna be eligible for a pay raise or a promotion.

And I forget, they surveyed all the people and then was only like 10 % of them had an issue with it. 90 % of them said fine. So again, they were willing to go, I don't want to get paid more as long as I work from home, which is fine. And then they just recently have come out more recently and said, we have no more work from home and everyone's coming in the office. Yeah. I think.

I don't think for me there's not like a hard and fast rule. So much of all the things that we talk about I think goes back to really understanding yourself and how you want to, especially when you're a business owner, how do you want to create your business and how do you like your company culture. I know plenty of business owners who run fully remote companies, but that's how they like to do it. And I don't personally think there's anything wrong with that if that's.

how they love to run a business now when you're talking about beyond maybe 10 people. Maybe it's a different conversation, but again, if you're running a really small, you have a really small company or really small team.

you know, if you're a great leader and that's you like to be on zoom calls and you like to leave that way. do you think? Let me just curious. Do you think it's more effective for in terms of actually creativity, strategizing? so being in the office versus not. it depends on the positions too. That's the other thing. What business is this? And what business it is because I

I'll use Devon as an example who's gonna listen to this and it works with us on the podcast I've worked with her for almost three years now I've never even met her in person and I think we had a really amazing working relationship. We got a lot done She's somebody I still to this day that I'm still working with her on even my own business because like which I do call a business even though it's just me But it wasn't a company no, but it's a business But that was completely remote

and their position allowed for that to happen much easier. be positional. And it works very well. I'm just sharing my own. But that could also be your It could. Maybe that's what I've learned about me is I just feel that you get a lot more done in office in terms of the, I'm not saying the work, I'm saying the strategy, the mentorship, the little building relationship pieces. relationships, sure. To be able to move things around quicker. It's just much more effective, at least in my opinion. Yeah.

I guess I don't really I don't have enough of an opinion one way or I were to start a company again, I would. office. That's somebody asked me that would you I'm like, yes, it's a it's very clear to me that it would be in office. Sure. Could you have some remote people? Absolutely. Yes, but it would be not be a remote company. And there are a lot of companies that are developed as remote remote first companies.

Yeah, mean, listen, I get that question all the time, specifically with leaders and EAs. I mean, it is a constant question. Should they be next to me? Do they need to be in office? And I mean, I hate saying it, but I mean, I don't think there's a hard and fast rule. really think it has a lot to do with the leader and the EA and how they like to work and how good their communication is and how willing.

the EA and the leader are to get on Zooms and get on phone calls and making sure they have really clear communication channels. But is it easier to be in office? Sure. Yeah, it would be easier. Well, we'll kind of go to the original. Can I ask you one question? What motivates you? I think what what truly motivates me is to figure out

It's not a motivation for doing something. It's a motivation for uncovering the who I am. I mean, that's the whole motivation of my entire life, right? Is to figure out who I am and to experience that much more. And so what I mean, it's not like a, I exercise, I journal, I have a very disciplined life to do those things. I don't accept motivation. To me, the motivation for all of that stuff and to use life as a way of just uncovering really why are we here?

What's the truth of why we're here as humans? And what's the point? We all come in here, we're here for half a moment, and then we die. I mean, seriously, mean, it's just, just go look on your local news every day and somebody died. mean, locally, we have a small town, I'm still...

I seriously though, like I'm shocked at how many people either drowned or car accidents or a fire or tractor turns over. I mean, it's just like every, and it's just like, wow, it might, well, actually my older daughter the other day, cause we were, she's two kids just drowned in the same, two different rivers, but two different people the same week. And she's like, wow.

like they just, or it's her age, right? They were like 12 and 14. And so she was like, yeah, it's terrible. And she was literally like, wow, it just goes like that. like, yeah, just like that. And so we just kind of had that conversation. So the only true motivation is like, that's why it's not about building a thousand person company or not about not doing anything. It's about actually understanding how do I just, how do I get to a point internally where I'm feeling the inner experience that I want to have

that inner experience of just joy of who we are and then bringing that into everything that we're doing. So that's ultimately the motivation for me. We started off, that's why I started off by saying one of the things that I've really learned.

and started really doing is using the higher self to talk to the lower self, which so every time like anxiety or worry or stress shows up there, I just literally remind it's like, you can do that. You can do that. I might do this like three times a day. Because I mean, there's not a day that goes by that like some sort of like.

Personal mind conversation doesn't jump in and try to derail me to a lower state and I'm going I'm not gonna go there I'm just not gonna do that and event comes in and I feel that event I'm gonna feel it then I'm gonna deal with it But I'm not gonna go suffer from there while I'm trying to figure out maybe that's gonna happen. Maybe it doesn't happen Maybe this is gonna happen right because your entire life. How many times have you been there? How many times have you been maybe it's different things that happen but

How many times have we all been there thinking like, my God, how many? And you just do, and then you don't even remember it. I wrote this to one of our companies, but it's like last March, right? Like you had an issue. Do you even remember what it was? No. What about last year? I can even think of some of the biggest issues. I remember when we had to let somebody go for having like affairs in our office and I got, and they sued us and they.

did a whole smear campaign, do you remember that? Where they put us all, they basically like, it was like a Honestly, like I don't even really remember I know, that's what I'm saying. Like I do because my name was on front page of the paper, like associated with the lawsuit for what it was. Yeah. you didn't But it was like, it had nothing to with me, but it was like my name was the owner of the company, even though was two employees that were there and it was this whole thing. they, so who's, has to be responsible. Exactly, so much is fine. But I remember being like, my God, this is the worst day of my life. And like, and then it's like, I don't even, I don't even remember I barely remember that. I barely remember that. And again, so it's like,

all those things and you know we're at and i'll probably end with this but like i was at the stow tennis club

Championship this weekend and I actually played in a plane like a year. So I was playing did you wins? made it to the final round. I lost the final round. Anyways, this guy that came up after he's like he was like 85 and he's moving around. But he he's like, wish I had some youth again. He's like, you know, and he said this comment. He was just like, you know, I wake up now everything hurts a little bit more. It's not the same thing. He's like just enjoy your health and he's like just enjoy being young because you know, not only he didn't say that he goes by fat

But he was like all the challenges you think you're having right now I'm paraphrasing but this is he said in like me and this other guy sat there and really looked at him really So true and it's just like I get that I think we can do that with ourselves So instead of going and saying well when I'm 70 we can look back and say it member I'm in my house 20 or 25 or 30 or 35 and all these major issues that I thought were fucked it's over and like no you just get through them and They just become a blip on your radar

Yeah, I'm very much in. Think about even the media. How many people do you know are publicly put out there and you're like, wow, I know how they're going to survive that. Even something like Tiger Woods, right? I mean, like all he went through and he came back and he was like lauded, right? Or even on Musk. I mean, every day that guy's in there for something, you read it and you're like, wow. Or even Donald Trump, right? I again, I'm not, this isn't for or against any political side, but just like.

Just wake up and just do it. And then like half the stuff that he's done, like people don't remember or have stuff that anybody does and just kind of just move on. You said that last in our last podcast, you were like, how easy it is to forget these things because there's so much stuff moving forward. But yet we don't do that with ourselves. We're just in the moment. We think that like this is like going to either like be it right instead of realizing like, wow, we're actually are able to worry and work through any of these challenges that show up. Yeah, for it was just for me, I mentioned this in the last podcast that.

Like we tend to just take ourselves so seriously and think that we're so important and how many people billion, eight billion, something like two billion and we're only here for 4 ,000 weeks. I'm reading that book right now. So 4 ,000 weeks and like approximately like, you know,

It doesn't really matter. That's why, that's why when we say, is that nihilism? Yeah, I know. It's like, so it's not real. don't really, I'm not really like I'm an nihilist. way you're saying it is like, that's why you can't just say, well, money doesn't matter or it just doesn't matter. And you're going, well, it's real problems. Yes, there are real things, but you take a bigger bird's eye view of it, yes, that is an issue. If you're losing money in a business, you have to figure that out. And I do think like how you treat other people is important because it does have like a long -term ripple effect. And. But.

But yeah, in the grand scheme of things, or even like, just think about like, again, I know we've talked about this, but like in this weird transitioning period in my life with my career, which I literally did not think anything was more important in my life than my career for 15 years, 20 years while I was building it. And now I'm like, well, if that's not actually the most important thing in the world, then.

what am I gonna do and then whatever I do next, does it really matter? Do I need to be the best in the world at whatever I, not that I was before, but you know what I mean? Do I need to be the best? Do I need to be super well known? I don't know, I think I just wanna make a difference, make an impact, but I just need to do it in a different way. That's why when you say it doesn't matter what you do, because in the grand scheme of things, you can build many businesses. No one's gonna remember the

I mean, I guess in theory our book will live on forever. yeah, like 500 years. I'm just thinking, which is nothing by the way, seems like a long time. No one will know what I did. exactly, know, that's why that's the whole point is like enjoy the day and try to do whatever you're in the day. Yeah. You walk to the bathroom and sound like my mother. We all become our mothers at some point, don't we? Well, that's why it's so important to get rid of. So if it's not career, if it's not business, it's not money. Yeah. For me, it's career or whatever. Right. It's not any of those things in what

That's why that motivation goes back to finding out who you are. And you ask me what the motivation is, it's that. So that's why it's like... But I don't feel a desire to find out who I am. Yeah, I'm not saying for you, you don't need to. Well, then what should I do But that's what you're asking. Yeah. but that is when I'm... That's what you're asking. Interesting. You just don't quite see it yet.