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At the Gettysburg Film Festival, Scott and Jenn interview director Bo Brinkman (Gettysburg, 1993; upcoming Gettysburg 1863) and actor Samuel Roukin (Turn: Washington’s Spies) about portraying the Battle of Gettysburg through the experiences of civilians—especially women and children—rather than traditional battlefield spectacle.

Brinkman explains choosing a 9-year-old lead to heighten the emotional impact of war, slavery discussions, and a home invasion, and describes the film’s visual idea of the house as a “witness,” often framed through windows and the passage of time across all of 1863, including aftermath.

Roukin shares how visiting the cemetery and walking the vast battlefield deepened his sense of the human cost, echoed by accounts of visible blood evidence at local sites.

00:00 Gettysburg

01:18 Film Festival Intro

03:05 Trailer Reactions

03:37 Why a Nine Year Old as a Lead Actress?

05:46 Acting as a Father

07:34 History with Waffles asks Why Gettysburg Calls

10:56 History Was Earned

11:26 Salvaging History asks about Researching Characters

13:09 Bloodstains and Forensics

14:28 Ghost Stories on Set

15:48 Scripting Fact vs Fiction

18:30 Salvaging History asks about The "Window Witness"

19:27 Final Reflections and Thanks

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'cause people kept going, you know, when are we gonna make

another Gettysburg movie?

And I'm like, we've already, we already have, you know, it, everybody

lines up, shoots at everybody.

I mean, you know, we've already done that.

What about the, the civilians and what they went through?

They went through their own battle.

Wow.

That's a great idea.

Yeah.

I think when you understand, uh, what it cost to have something,

uh, it changes how you value it.

And I thought.

I think the house needs to be a witness as well.

Mm-hmm.

And it was witness to the first day battle.

You know,

we've all seen the grand sweeping shots of the high ground, the lines of blue and

gray clashing at the peach orchard, the smoke-filled chaos of Devil's Den and the

iconic, tragic surge of Pickett's charge.

But while the history book's focus on the movements of generals and the

clatter of Musketry, there was another battle happening simultaneously.

It was happening behind the heavy oak doors, in damp basements, and

through the frantic eyes of children peering out of their home windows.

It was the battle for the town of Gettysburg itself, fought by the

civilians who suddenly found the most famous conflict in American

history, literally on their doorsteps.

Today on Talk With History, we are bringing you a very special conversation

While we read the Gettysburg Film Festival, Jen and I had the incredible

opportunity to sit down with two men who are bringing a fresh, visceral

perspective to the Civil War.

We're talking with Director Bo Brinkman, a man who is no

stranger to this battlefield.

You might recognize him from his work in the 1993 Classic Gettysburg,

and who is now directing the upcoming film, Gettysburg 1863.

Alongside him is actor Samuel Roukin, who you may know is the

villainous Captain Simco from the hit series Turn Washington Spies.

In this joint interview alongside our fellow creators from history with

waffles and salvaging history, we dive deep into why this film chooses to look

through the windows of the town's homes rather than just the sight of a rifle.

We will discuss the miracle of finding a 9-year-old lead actress who could carry

the emotional weight of a ransacked home, the haunting reality of seeing 160

year old bloodstains still visible on the floors of local farms in Gettysburg.

And why Samuel a New American himself found the cost of this earned history.

So moving this movie isn't just about July 1st, second, and third.

It's about the entire year of 1863, the before, the during,

and the long painful aftermath.

I'm your host, Scott, and today we're stepping off the battlefield and

into the homes of Gettysburg with a cast and crew of Gettysburg 1863.

Well, I, I'll start.

Okay.

I love.

The trailer and the minute it showed, I got teary-eyed because I

loved your point of view and your urban warfare, which I haven't seen

depicted with Gettysburg before.

And I love that because I'm an Iraqi war veteran.

Um, and I was a helicopter pilot, so I've done a lot of that myself.

And to see that from that point of view was really great.

And I loved it from the woman point of view.

So a lot of my videos here in Gettysburg, I try to take the different lenses Yeah.

And do it from a women's point of view.

I

love it.

Um, you talked about Tilly Pierce.

Yeah.

She was 15 years old.

Mm-hmm.

And you used her documentation, but you wanted a 9-year-old.

Yeah.

So why were you looking for a younger girl to be depicted?

Because I wanted to, one of the, I, uh, said earlier, um, I, I wanted like when

her mother explains to her about slavery.

It may, it, it has so much more gravity when you're telling a child.

Sure.

Because they have to, they're listening and they wrap their

brain around what you're saying.

'cause it's, it's foreign to them.

Although she grew up in that.

Mm-hmm.

She still doesn't get it.

'cause she's nine, you know, she still has this child view of, of the world.

I, I really wanted a young girl that, um.

It has a different perspective than the two older ones.

Sure.

You know?

Um, and there's more raw emotions, I think with the little kid as

well.

Well, and I saw that too with your point of view because they're

dealing with adult situations.

Yeah.

Soldiers right outside the window.

Right.

Like that's a harsh realization for a child.

Yeah.

And to hear slavery at nine years old, like it's another harsh realization that

you feel like you have to tell them Right.

Then.

So I liked how you depicted that.

Um, also there's a scene where, you know, their house is, you know, ransacked.

Mm-hmm.

Rebels come in and they're down in the basement.

I, I wanted a, a child's through a child's eyes to, to experience that with that,

that character, um, all the way through.

So that was, I really wanted it like a 9-year-old.

I didn't want a 12-year-old.

Yeah.

I, and I kept saying to the customer, I, she's gotta be eight, nine years old.

You know, that can also act.

Yeah.

Which,

yeah,

40 auditions later.

Um, we found her.

She's incredible.

But this,

this young actor is really special.

Steven Lang did his first, uh, season, uh, uh, scene with her and he turns

around to me, like, gets to my pieces.

Where the hell did you find her?

Yeah.

She's a seasoned pro.

That's

awesome.

I'm like, yeah, no kidding.

She's amazing.

Now my next question is for you, Samuel.

Okay, now your father.

Yes.

Do you think it's easier to portray a father being a father, or do you

think when you're acting and you're not a father, you're not, is it

hard to ca to capture that until you actually know what that feels like?

It's a really interesting question.

I was just starting to think, have I played a father before I was a father?

Um, I think I did act as a, a great at pretending to be

anyone if they're a good actor.

Mm-hmm.

So I don't, I don't think it, it's, uh, it's.

Uh, a necessity, but I will say that there's a, a shorthand that

you have with other parents.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Yeah.

Like an understanding, like, you know, Shannon, uh, Lucio,

who plays, um, Rebecca, yeah.

Um, Lieutenant Kelly's wife in this, um, you know, with both parents of young kids.

And it was very, very easy to drift into this family environment because.

We both understand what that is.

And you know, I I, I do always say like, there's, there's the one you can imagine

all of the things, but the one thing that only parents have lived through

is that kind of sleep deprivation.

Actually maybe you do in the military, but like, but like that sleep deprivation

is, is a particular flavor of being tired.

Hundred percent.

And to your point, I used to say it was easier flying combat over Iraq than being

a mother because I knew where my enemy was and I got eight hours of crew rest.

Yeah, that's right.

Right.

When I had little kids, it was like I didn't know where they were coming

from and I was exhausted all the time.

That's

right.

And wait until they become 16.

All of a sudden you're the enemy.

Oh yeah.

It's like, what happened?

I used to be the hero, now I'm the enemy.

Right, right.

I love that.

Well, I'll move on if you guys, and I'll come.

Alright.

So.

Why, why do we always come back to Gates for what makes this place so powerful and

special, important, other than the battle to be able to tell these types of stories?

There's so many people that come in and out of this town, and

they come back again and again.

Why?

Hey, I'm a, I was a frequent flyer for 30 years.

Um, I discovered it doing rehearsals for, you know, Gettysburg and

I came back every couple years.

It's something about what happened here.

Yeah, if you go onto the battleground, you feel it.

I feel it.

Um, I kept coming back and I, you know, had got a lot of friends and

then now I live here part-time.

It's just something, it, it's hard to explain.

And I noticed that about tourists as well.

Yeah.

They, once they come, they come back.

A lot of 'em come back every year, you know?

Um, I've met so many that it's.

That's what they do now, you know?

Yeah.

They just, every summer here they are a lot of return visitors.

Samuel, for yourself, do you have a special story or something that's tied

to this battlefield now that you've been here and you've been involved in

that role that you can relay to us?

Um, I'm always really moved by, uh, cemeteries.

Um, so when I was here, um, I went off for a few hours and just kind

of walked around the cemetery here.

Um, and you know, I think it's connected to why people come back.

It's the, the human experience and knowing what the humans that were

in this specific place went through.

It's hard not to be moved by that and to, to have a reverence for it.

And so I, I, I love exploring where people are laid to rest and, and, and

looking at the ages is always a thing.

And the, the plaque, there's so many plaques you never get round

them all in, um, in Gettysburg.

But it is, it is really fascinating.

But for me it's, uh, so that was a really great day when I just, I walked, I just

walked and walked and walked for hours.

I found it very moving.

I also, you know, when I walked, you know, obviously there's, there's so many

monuments on the battlefield and so spread out, which is why there's a driving tour.

But I was on my feet, so I was just walking through some of them and I, I

looked at it, it was the, the vastness of that landscape was something

I hadn't quite comprehended, had the same experience, um, a similar

experience when I went to Normandy.

Yeah.

You know, on the, on the, the beaches.

Like until you stand on the beach and you see the, the, the depth and, and,

and where the battlements you, you can't get, your brain doesn't comprehend

really how brutal that must have been and how exposed you were and if you

made it through that, like how that must affect you for the rest of your life.

How you, you know, but, and so it's hard not to go to those

places and physically stand.

Where those people stood and not be moved by it.

So I think Gettysburg with such a rich history like that, it's

just keeps people coming back.

I know, I, I mean we, I'm, I'm here with my wife and we've been

talking about coming back with our kids very soon because Yes.

Because it's, it's like what a better way to teach history, right.

Than to

for

sure walk where other humans have walked.

You mentioned being in these places of power and, and now that you say you're,

you're a New American, essentially.

The comment you made about being in these places and understanding and, and figuring

out that this is, this was earned to me.

That was a very powerful Yeah.

And moving moment there.

Yeah.

I think when you understand, uh, what it costs to have something,

uh, it changes how you value it.

So that's where that came from.

Yeah.

I'm glad that resonated.

Yeah,

I love that too with me as well.

Yeah.

Oh, so you also talked about a little bit about how at, at some point you have to

kind of put away the research and, and just kind of dive into the character.

Yes.

So did you guys ever get any chance to maybe pour over some leathers or some

primary source material that at least give you a sense of what certain individuals

felt like and to kind of bring a little bit more to the human element to things?

So, like I mentioned, I, you know, I watched the, the Ken Burn documentary.

I read some stuff.

The, one of the more interesting things was something that I

happened across by accident.

So when we were in holding at one of the houses, when we were shooting

at the, at the Schreiber house.

Mm. Um, there was a, a photo album in there and was looking through these photos

and then there were photos of, um, bodies discovered in like, around the corner,

you know, and, uh, all of these like photos that could only have been taken

by regular people, just, you know, like.

You know who, I've already had a camera of course, but like, but like this,

like, it, it, it was witnessing, right?

And I, I all through my career when I've been like, I, I love photography.

I think it's, it's incredibly evocative and powerful and helpful, you know, to

have images in your head as an actor.

Um, and so that, that was like an accidental bit of research

for me that that really hit home.

Um, because this was happen was on their doorstep.

Mm-hmm.

You know, which is what's so great about looking out through the window Yeah.

Into the street.

It's like, that's what it was.

You know?

That's how you saw it.

Right.

And, you know, have you ever been, did you, you, you, you saw the

attic at the Shriver house, right?

Yes.

Okay.

So Nancy, one that.

Kinda rebuilt it, um, and sold it to, to the Hi Gettysburg History.

She had a forensics.

Do y'all know about this?

Um, I

know the story.

You know the story?

Yeah, I do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, she had a guy that did forensics and they did luminol in there.

Mm-hmm.

That attic was a blood.

Oh wow.

I mean, yeah, he put the black light on.

Yeah, it was sprayed everywhere.

They did, there were some sharp shooters up there and they knocked the brick

out so they could not be in the window.

They still got shot.

Mm-hmm.

And, uh, there's just blood everywhere.

And there's another one at the, uh, the Daniel lady.

Have y'all been to the Daniel Lady Farm?

Yes.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Oh my gosh.

Did you see the blood imprints?

Mm-hmm.

Human.

Print.

I mean, like there's what you can see the body outline.

He's laying on this floor.

He's laying on his side and yeah, you can see it just, it's there.

It's, they, they did the same thing there.

They, they went in with forensics and sprayed it down.

It just, the whole place lit up, you know?

Wow.

And that really gives you like, this really happened.

Yep.

I mean, wow.

Yeah, it just, and it happened over many, many square miles,

I mean, in so many houses.

And

now on the other hand, in the same holding area, we also found a

book that was, um, ghost Pictures.

Mm-hmm.

Oh

yeah.

So like photographs of supposed ghost.

Pretty

popular in Getty Bird.

Created, uh, no, no End to Joy.

So everywhere we went, we ended up shooting into the

night and it got a bit spooky.

And we were like, is that a ghost?

Is that a, and it kind of, it was like a nice little touchstone for us as

a family throughout the rest of the shoot once we'd seen that book too.

So, well,

you know,

you never know what you're gonna find them.

Oh man.

You know, and that was not an industry in the nineties when we were here,

that it was happened afterwards in the late nineties, I believe,

is when the ghost thing came in.

But we, um, snuck on the battlefield and drunk as hell one night, me

and a bunch of actors, and you know where the sharpshooter was?

Yeah, yeah.

Devil's den

it.

Yeah.

And Devil's den the photograph and all that.

Uh, I laid in that spot and we got a Ouija board and candles.

Oh man.

And tried to drum up a ghost.

No joy.

No.

It

wasn't like See you trying too hard.

You just trying too hard.

You had to pretend like I, I don't care if you show up or not.

Yeah.

I'm definitely not coming.

Now.

Your trend.

So was this your first time ever in Gettysburg filming this movie?

Was this your first time?

It was,

yeah.

Yeah.

Very cool.

Yeah, it was very cool.

Yeah.

That's sweet.

And I love that you're doing.

The, the mother point of view, the child point of view, and how much

they're holding things together, especially with the, the patriarch gone.

Um, how much did you deviate from.

The, for your fictional characters, like a real character, but how

much did you deviate from the real history to create that story?

It was a kind of in and out, you know, I, I just had a, a con, a

flow of consciousness when I was writing it after I did the research.

Yeah.

And, uh, Chris and I did a lot of research, um, and, uh, she's

the one that said, I, I want you to write something about the.

The aftermath

mm-hmm.

Of the civilians.

'cause people kept going, you know, when are we gonna make

another Gettysburg movie?

And I'm like, we've already, we already have.

Yeah.

You know, it, everybody lines up, shoots at everybody.

I mean, you know, we've already done that.

Right.

And you can't finance it today.

There's no way.

Right.

So, you know, she, she brought up a good point and, and you know,

like, wow, that's a great idea.

What about the.

The civilians and what they went through.

Mm-hmm.

They went through their own battle and, uh, so I, I wanted to do it from a woman's

perspective because there weren't a lot of men in town and they were all fighting.

Mm-hmm.

Um, so I, that's, that's kind of where it started, you know, through

the Shriners and the Tilley P story.

Um, and I just kind of gleaned from that a little bit and got my own ideas.

Sure.

And then I just wrote it.

Now, are you gonna depict Jenny Wade?

Are you gonna pick Elizabeth Thorne?

No.

No.

Mm oh, so you're really, you're, I mean, those are the ones that everyone knows.

Yeah.

So I like that you're going, because the so many women don't get this story told.

Yeah.

And that's what I love about Gettysburg, what we do.

This is still stories that have to be told.

Mm-hmm.

You're,

there's so many, there's just so many things that people don't,

haven't been discovered yet, or.

Some pe there's a lot of soldiers who were unknown.

They, they, they couldn't, um, identify them, right?

So no one knew what happened to their president or their father or things like

that, and their stories don't get told.

So I think it's great that, you know, looking, um, at another point of

view, I really think that's great.

Do you, is it true to say that like, when you are writing something like this, that.

It's less deviations from truth, but it's taking pieces of truth and feeding

them into the, so it's to the story you're telling, I always say there's a

grain of truth in everything I write.

Yeah.

There's a grain of truth or otherwise it, it doesn't feel real, you know, you can

tell,

you can tell, you can feel it.

It's manufactured, you know.

Um, so I always write with a grain of truth.

And so, especially with this story,

' cause it might not have all happened to the.

To the one person you're talking about, but they happened to someone.

Someone, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And, and many at, at the same time.

That's good.

Same experience.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So,

so what was, what went into the decision to, to feature a lot of the

point of view through that window?

Was that something you had in mind when you took the project or that?

'cause I think that's,

yeah.

When I, I just started ruminating it, just thinking about it every day and I thought.

I think the house needs to be a witness as well.

Mm-hmm.

Not just the girls, but the home.

Yeah.

And it was witness to the first day battle, you know?

And I thought, wow, what if we did that through the window and then, uh, the

passage of time also through the window.

Yes.

You know, it's very neat.

So, um, yeah, that was, that was kind of cool.

It, um, came out of the universe there, you know.

Well, we're so excited for it, especially two 50, like, you

know, coming out this year.

It's so great.

So we're excited.

It looks great.

Thank you guys.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Was so meet you.

As we wrap up our time here with the interview while we were sitting

in Gettysburg, it's hard not to look at the streets differently.

Historians have spent years talking about the movements of the 20th Maine

or the tragedy of the peach Orchard.

But after speaking with Bo and Samuel about the witness of

the home, it feels just as.

Whether it's the haunting realization that the Daniel Lady Farm still

holds the physical imprints of those who fell there, or the power of

seeing a 9-year-old child grapple with the reality of slavery and war.

Gettysburg 1863 is bound to remind us that history isn't just something

that happened out there on a field.

It happened in the kitchens, the attics, and the very hearts of the

people who called this town home.

Samuel Roan said it best.

When you understand what it costs to have something, it changes how you value it.

Standing in Gettysburg among the monuments in the modern day bustle,

that cost feels more tangible than ever.

We wanna thank Bo Brinkman and Samuel Roukin for giving us a glimpse behind

the curtain of this incredible project.

Be sure to look for Gettysburg 1863 this fall.

It is a film that doesn't just ask you to remember the battle, but to witness

the year that changed America forever.

For Jen and our fellow history creators at history with waffles

on YouTube and salvaging history on Instagram, thanks for listening.

We'll see you at the next window into the past.

Talk to you next time.

This has been a Walk with History, production Talk with history

is created and hosted by me, Scott Bennie, episode researched

by Jennifer Bennie.

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