In this episode of the Connected Pleasure Podcast, I’m joined by Wren Morrow, an outdoor boudoir and erotic adventure photographer based in the Pacific Northwest. Wren guides individuals and couples through deeply embodied, sensual experiences in wild places—using photography as a portal back into the body, pleasure, and belonging.

We explore how Wren’s work emerged organically through van life, nature immersion, and embodiment practices, and why outdoor boudoir is about so much more than taking photos. What’s being offered is an experience—an invitation to slow down, shed shame, and remember what it feels like to belong in your body and on the earth.

Wren shares her powerful perspective on boudoir as fluorescence—the unfurling of a human being willing to be seen. We talk about shame as the instinct to close back into the bud, and pleasure as the courage to open, soften, and take up space. Together, we unpack how body image, motherhood, trauma, and cultural conditioning disconnect us from our sensuality—and how play, nature, and sensation help restore it.

This conversation also dives into:

1. Why embodiment and pleasure are birthrights—not reserved for “perfect” bodies
2. How nature mirrors our own “imperfections” as stories of resilience and becoming
3. The reclamation and bravery involved in being nude in wild spaces
4. Holding consent, safety, and boundaries during outdoor erotic art sessions
5. Group shoots, feminine friendship, and the healing power of shared experience
6. Men, shame, vulnerability, and the complexities of holding erotic space across genders
7. Navigating power dynamics, safety, and tenderness with integrity

We close with reflections on the divine feminine and masculine, the harm patriarchy has caused everyone, and the importance of moving toward a future rooted in embodiment, pleasure, responsibility, and collective healing.

This episode is an invitation to soften, unfurl, and remember:

Your body is not wrong.

Your scars are stories.

And pleasure begins with presence.

Connect with Wren Morrow:

1. Website: https://www.wrenmorrow.com/
2. Social Media: @_wrenmorrow

If you’re feeling called to stay in touch with Kayla:

1. Join the waitlist for the Sacred Desire course - Beta starts January 21st 2026!
2. Book your Liberation Wisdom session
3. Join my Newsletter Community
4. Support this podcast and leave me a tip!
5. Book 45 minute consultation
6. Email me at kayla@connectedpleasurecoaching.com with any questions

Welcome, beloveds, to the Connected Pleasure Podcast.

I am your host, Kayla Moore, certified sex therapist turned pleasure priestess and feminine liberation coach.

This is a sacred space where we burn down the old narratives and rise into a new way of being, one led by intuition, pleasure and embodied truth.

Together, we explore sexual healing, feminine liberation, and the reclamation of your sovereign power in a world that benefits from your disconnection.

In every episode, we peel back the layers of indoctrination, remember what is ours, and weave pleasure back into the collective consciousness one brave conversation at a time.

You belong here.

Your pleasure belongs here.

Let's rise.

This podcast is for education and inspiration only.

If you're wanting to explore pleasure more fully for yourself, I invite you to go deeper with me through the offerings linked in the show notes or through the offerings of my guests.

If you're unsure whether one of these containers or a therapeutic approach would best support you, you're welcome to schedule a free 45 minute consultation with me.

Together, we can explore what path is in your best interest.

And if I am not the right fit, I'll be glad to connect you with the resources you need.

Welcome back, beloveds, to the Connected Pleasure Podcast.

I'm Kayla, your host.

I go by she, her, hers, pronouns, and I'm here today with a really exciting new guest.

Ren Amaro is an outdoor boudoir and erotic adventure photographer based in the pnw.

She guides individuals and couples through deeply embodied central experiences in wild places.

So cool.

Thank you, Ren, for being here with me today.

Can you talk a little bit more about how you got into this work and what it means to you to be able to do this type of art with people?

Thank you so much for having me, Kayla.

I'm excited to be here.

Yeah, I, I think it, it was just sort of magical happenstance for how I got into this style of work.

A combination of the lifestyle I was living, the artistic mediums that had caught my attention, like starting to pursue photography, living in a van, being in lots of wild places, finding my own embodiment practices just by being in.

In silence and in my body and in nature, and then realizing what a gift it was and what an opportunity to invite other people to come and join in on it.

And it really felt like the photos were the technical thing you could buy, but what you were really getting was the experience to come out and to come frolic and be in places that the best way I can describe it is like you just feel like you belong being.

Being naked in wild places and just like being slow and sensual in the woods or just un.

Untethered to.

Typical society just recalibrates.

The system reminds you of the animal that you are.

And it just feels so deeply right in ways that sometimes we didn't even realize how.

How much our environments are, like, slowly, like, tweaking us to make us feel kind of wrong.

Like something's a little wrong about this.

I can't quite put my finger on it, but there's something about walking on concrete every day and buying fruits and vegetables from, like, this, like, mound in the grocery store and.

And never really talking to my neighbors and.

And not like, helping anything grow and not seeing enough plants.

You know, like, there's something about that this feels a little off.

And then you go to the woods and to.

To these places that are.

Are less tracked out by societal norms and.

And it just.

Yeah, it just feels like a recalibration of and.

And an alignment with our more natural way of being.

And so, yeah, there was no, like, point.

I set out to be like, I'm gonna do this thing.

It was just kind of like the right concoction and the organic growth of it.

Very cool.

Very cool.

I think, myself included, before I got into the sexual space, I used to think of boudoir photos as like, you're just putting on some lingerie.

And even I think maybe more for like, the other person versus yourself.

I remember when I was a wedding expo, when I was planning my wedding, I randomly won boudoir shoot, and I didn't really even know what it was.

And so I never even followed up with people that I wanted with.

And now I wish I would have because I know so much more about it.

So can you.

You said so many things that were so beautiful about what it looks like and what it means, like, be out in nature and to be one with yourself.

But for somebody that maybe has never really heard about a boudoir shoot or maybe has a very limited amount of information about what it is.

Yeah.

Can you speak a little bit more about maybe like, the transformational process that a lot of people probably primarily women, feel when.

Or go through when they're doing this type of photo shoot and what it can really mean about the self versus it being about, you know, the people that are actually going to look at the pictures?

Hmm.

Yeah.

So for.

For anyone who doesn't know the word boudoir is French for bedroom or like, the woman's private room, her, like, powder room, it was the place where the.

The woman, like, beautified herself.

And now it has colloquially been understood to be this certain style of photography that typically have women in little to no clothing, often in lingerie.

And I think at first it's seemed to be something that was more taken as like a gift for your husband to be or I think was like that's why you found it at a wedding expo.

I have also promoted myself at wedding expos because it is like this time where I think women are feeling especially beautiful.

There's like lots that goes into making yourself feel like a princess on your wedding day.

And that tends to be like if you already feel like we worked out, we said yes to the dress, I'm feeling so good.

I'm feeling, you know, I'm already like, you know, I bought the nice lingerie for the wedding night.

Like now I can like go and photograph it in another place.

So it ends up often being marketed and sold in that capacity.

And I think that my approach to it somewhat started there because of the fact that that was just like where the market was.

But the more that I did it the more that I realized it really had an opportunity to be by you for you.

There's a word called fluorescence and the word means like the blooming of a flower and like the actual like unfurling and yeah that is.

What if I were to say there's like one word to define what this type of photography can be and is is in its best form is like the fluorescence like the watching someone unfurl in front of my camera and believe in their own beauty and their own willingness to be seen.

There's nothing like it.

And I am a deep steadier of, of that energy and of watching someone come alive.

And it's, it's interesting I'm just now realizing putting this together that I've often referred to shame.

The feeling of shame to me reminds me of a flower trying to become a bud again.

The way I experience Shane body is this like, like pull like oh, I'm, I didn't mean so sorry I, I showed you those petals like let me like pull myself back in.

And so for, and just now making this comparison that for the, the opposite of that is to be flowering and to put yourself fully out there, be willing to be seen and be willing to be beautiful and be willing to be whatever it is that comes out and don't think that the bud knows what it will be fully unfurled and yet it wants to experience the sunlight and the openness and the surrender of just like unfurling.

And then we all get to experience the sight the the.

The beauty of that.

So creating these containers where it is both safe to unfurl and celebrated to unfurl and then documented and create these little like time capsule portals through the photos to revisit and remember that feeling is definitely the.

The heart of what I do and why I do it.

Yeah.

So beautiful and so needed.

I think the work that I do with women and coming back to their sexuality, sensuality, desire and feeling that that is something that they can access again and harness again and feels like it's mine to claim.

Mm.

One of the biggest barriers that I find that women have, myself included, I've been working on this too, especially after becoming a mother.

My body changing is our bodies.

Our bodies are so heavily scrutinized in this world that we live in, both men and women, but absolutely women's bodies.

I mean, there's billion dollar industries on making women feel terrible about themselves to then sell them products to make themselves feel better.

And it is such a radical notion to one even just be comfortable enough in yourself to say, yeah, I'm going to stand in front of a camera in nothing or in, you know, next to nothing and feel confident.

But to then like really embody that confidence and allow that to transform you, that you can like move through the world in that way and feel like I am enough always.

Um, so can you talk a little bit about like how.

How you help women feel like this is something that they can do?

I'm sure a lot of women, I mean, some women I'm sure come to you and are like, yes, I'm ready to do this, but I'm sure there's a lot of women that are like, I don't love a lot about what's happening here.

And maybe this is a step in a direction of helping them have self love for their bodies and what they look like.

But if you could just talk a little bit to that process for you of like, how do you help women feel like this is something that they can do and that they could actually feel really good about and learning how to be comfortable in a usually very uncomfortable space for many people.

Yeah, I think for each person it's a little bit different when I say that I like study that, that blooming that always looks the same.

But like what activates it or what makes it feel comfortable is different.

And so there's a little bit of just kind of like offering guidance, offering suggestions, offering compliments and like seeing what it makes it past the, the blockade.

I.

But I guess that would be like more once the Shoot has started before then.

I think it's okay to not love everything about your body all the time.

We have become more obsessed with how our bodies look than how our bodies feel.

And that obsession is not limited to the female body.

I mean, we're obsessed with how other people's lives look through Instagram, other people's homes.

The aesthetic of a thing, being able to have a thing that looks a certain way, but you walk into it and it has no heartbeat.

That, I think is.

Is a sign of a culture that spends a lot of time consuming the world through a phone rather than through the sensation of interfacing with it.

With your body.

Yeah.

That being said, the feeling.

Of an.

Embodied experience of the sun, the warmth, the wind, the moss, the bark, the water, sand.

These things are not only given access to size.

Two bodies.

Yes.

Being able to feel how delicious sand feels between your toes, that.

That's your birthright.

That's your.

That is, you were given a body, and that is all you need to access the pleasure of that sensation.

That's all you need to be given access to.

Any sensation, and any sensation can be pleasurable if you allow yourself to slow down enough and fully feel it.

Even pain can be incredibly pleasurable if you slow yourself down enough to really feel it.

And our consciousness is given a very limited but very special peek into sensation based on what it is we're able to feel.

You know, we don't get to see the world the way a dragonfly gets to see the world or experience wind the way a bird does, but it's uniquely human.

Whatever it is that we get to access, we get to get it through 10 fingers and 10 toes and two eyeballs and one tongue.

And it's like.

It's very precious.

It's very special.

And I feel like my shoots are far more focused on giving a space to access the sensation of being in a body, of moving, of dancing, of laughing, of sinking and melting and strutting.

And so I don't.

It's a very feminine seductress approach, but I don't typically try to approach it head on.

I'm not.

I like an angle.

I like a soft light.

I like some dark shadows and some, you know, something kind of like get you in the mood.

You know, candlelight's a lot more flattering.

And so I think that, yeah, I don't try to say, like, you know, you should feel hot enough to do this.

You know, here's how.

Here's how to feel sexy enough to do this.

Right?

It's more like, let's go on through the side door.

Let's have some fun.

Let's go on an adventure.

Let's feel how good it is to splash around in the cold water and let's go find a tree to climb and let's go, like, sink into this thing.

And when you are having fun and experiencing sensation and activating your own pleasure and.

And embodying your own self and remembering what it is to play and to.

And to enjoy your surroundings, you remember there's an opportunity at least to remember that this is what having a body is for.

And how beautiful do I look when I'm in play?

That's what's beautiful, is like being enjoyed.

That's what's beautiful.

We don't need to, like, sculpt and twist and twerk and make you look like a woman having an orgasm, which is like, what most like of our ideas of sexy are, is like the art back.

You know, it's like, okay, and accessing pleasure, Accessing that deep sort of like, this does feel good, does get some of that type of imagery.

I don't shy away from that.

I don't like to fake it.

You know, I'm like, trying to figure out genuine ways to help someone encounter pleasure so that they look like they're experiencing pleasure, so that the photo looks like the way that we think of as sexy.

But again, it's like more of these, like, side.

Side angle access ways.

Um, yeah.

Yeah, that's how.

Yeah.

Well, I love.

First, this podcast is about pleasure in general.

I obviously focus on sexual pleasure because that's my background, but I love to help people weave pleasure in whatever capacity it looks like, back into their lives and then our world at large.

And everyone that I've asked, what is your definition of pleasure?

It always comes back to presence and being able to experience your surroundings in that moment through all of the senses that we have in our bodies.

And Amen.

You just said exactly that.

And so I think what I'm hearing from you is that it's like you said, it's less about, I'm gonna strike a pose and, like, make myself look like I'm sexy.

And it's more about experiencing pleasure in the moment, in whatever way feels pleasurable to you.

And it sounds like for you, there's kind of a rewilding aspect to your work, too, of getting back into nature, feeling that connection to nature, that we are not separate from our earth, from Mother Gaia, but we are part of this fabric and this, like, mycelial network.

Together and being able to connect back to the earth, connect back to our roots and our ancestry and remember is part of the pleasure in itself.

And then you are just capturing what is authentically there.

That yes, 1 million percent.

And I, I think of it as like I've done, I do things indoors as well and I can feel the difference.

I can feel the difference that when it's indoors I'm having to hold so much more space, I'm having to give so much more feedback to like help make someone feel comfortable.

Where there's something about like kind of turning the mic over to Mother Nature, like letting, letting the, the imperfect undeniable beauty of wherever we find ourselves speak.

And it's so loud in such a quiet way that is like there is nothing here that is perfect and yet it is so perfect.

And when, and when that messaging is just coming through from all angles, it's so easy to like, let it kind of permeate your own skin and your own self to be like, oh yeah, I'm not perfect.

According to whoever the fuck determined what perfect was, right?

And every imperfection in my body is just the story of my growth.

The story of what my DNA had to, had to get through to survive through the lineage.

The story of.

I mean I've got, I've got the Hunchback of Notre Dame shoulders girl.

And no matter how much I do the, you know, and I don't have a story of, of doing enough like chest presses or whatever the I need to be doing, like get my shoulders aligned.

But you know what I do have, I've got these giant traps that are the.

To me tell the story of a 10 year old girl who suddenly became the eldest of five kids.

And suddenly I'm like carrying the weight of, of my family and my siblings and having to like help raise children at 10.

That weight got put on my shoulders really young and I, I've built up these muscles on my shoulders that don't look perfect.

They make my body look like, not this idealized, like straight posture, whatever, but tell the story of what I've actually been through.

And I think that all of these like imperfections that we have are just the stories of the ways that our bodies the same.

You see a tree that's twisted searching for sunlight is just our own twistings of, of how we shouldered burdens or hid ourselves or rose to the occasion or had more than we could handle and, and were twisted and twerked and, and made quote, imperfect along that way, along that journey.

But they're the stories of our becoming.

And so, you know, you.

You have a cystic acne scars.

To me, that looks like you got really stressed at a young age and didn't know how, you know, did not know how to handle the hormones, and it came in too strong.

And now, you know, and it's like, that's a tender.

That's a tender little.

Little face under there that had to, like, endure a lot of shift in their hormones and didn't know how to balance and regulate it and didn't.

Probably didn't have the support to do it.

And now they're.

They hold that story forever.

And it's like, you know, this is our one little life that we have.

And these scars, these.

These.

These growth patterns, like, are just there.

There are history.

And that's okay for it to not be perfect, because these, you know, we go to the grocery store, and every apple looks exactly perfect.

Every banana looks exactly perfect.

Everything looks like it was grown.

And you know why?

Because it was grown in a.

In a sterilized, like, you know, put.

This is the container that makes it grow in a way that doesn't produce a single dent or a single imperfection.

And.

And it never had to go through a test of character.

It never had to figure out how to grow over rocks or endure a rose bush that grew around it.

It never had to, like, for itself and.

And come out on the other side and still show the resilience of its nature.

And they all taste exactly the same.

They all look exactly the same.

And we start to, like, think that that's how we should be and deny our own individuality and.

And imperfections because we.

We don't want to.

To show our struggle.

It's like, man, like, show me your struggle, babes.

Yeah, I. I'm just blown away at the depth of this conversation.

I.

It is so just infuriating to me of how we impose this narrative of what things need to look like not only on ourselves, but also on nature.

And yes to all of what you just said.

Fruits and vegetables do not need to look perfect for us to consume them.

And they would actually probably taste way better if we didn't try to control their growth.

And it also reminds me, like, I live in a very suburban area, and I love the.

The area that I live in.

And it comes with the expectation that you, like, take care of your outside surroundings to a specific degree.

And I come from, you know, a family that has been indoctrinated into that.

And y' all got grass here.

Y got perfect wheat Free grass.

Yeah.

Or, you know, God forbid we have a tree that sheds things during fall and winter time that we have to like go for some reason go pick up and then throw them away.

You mean the thing that's trying to fertilize your soil so that there's more biodiversity available in that soil and the soil is more vital and more able to like, go with the flow and bring in the goods and.

And.

Okay, sorry, I'm about to get off that soapbox real quick.

You'll need to.

Oh.

Yeah.

So I.

It is so beautiful how you are thinking about all of these things and how it intertwines with the work that you do and the bigger mission it sounds like you have with the work that you do.

It.

It's just beautiful.

So I do have like a couple practical questions that if I was a client, which maybe one day I will be, I would be thinking like, it sounds all well and good to go out in nature, but for some.

I did actually do a nature shoot.

And where do you go where there aren't going to be a lot of other random people around that could see you being naked in the woods?

Do you have like, or, you know, whatever environment you're in?

Do you have specific places that you're like.

I know that this will be just private with us, that there's not going to be any like random, you know, like three year old running across the sand or something that is like, what is happening.

Or closure.

No.

Yeah.

Or like, you know, a lot of the women that I work with are still like working through their own trauma and so like seeing, you know, a random man somewhere that is not, you know, consenting to them doing this.

Like, how do you kind of physically create the container in the spaces so that the people that you're working with feel held and feel like, you know, I'm consenting to you and you alone seeing me naked.

And that's it.

Yeah, the, I mean the practical, the practicality of it is that I do not own the world.

And I cannot guarantee, I cannot guarantee that no one will find us, but I can.

I lived in a van for three years and we did a lot of exploring and my.

We were really good at just finding these very secluded places where people just weren't.

Because we wanted to be naked outside and we spent a lot of time outside and so.

And our whole hope was to just like find places where we really just didn't even want to hear anyone.

Like that was like the main thing.

It's just no noise, please.

And so we ended up just like, finding a bunch of little gems.

But yeah, I mean, the, the there is a little bit of a thrill to it that is like, well, we can't 100 no.

And because of that, we always bring.

I, I'm typically like, I got the camera and I got like, a little like, robe or a blanket or something like, on nearby.

And I got my head swivel.

I'm out here like, tracking.

We're going a little bit like, off the beaten trail.

Like, even if we're on a beaten trail, we're going a little bit off the beaten trail.

Because that is also helpful, like being in the.

But I've done some straight in the middle of a trail, like, and it's a little bit of a hope for the best, but also just like being cognizant of like, I try to set it up where it's like I will.

I would see someone coming, but they, they could see me but not her kind of situation.

And then I've got like.

And we've got like a coverage moment.

There was one time, this is a funny story, like when I got started that I found this incredible trail just in the middle of Seattle.

And I, I was in there and there were, I mean, there were big old trees, tons of ferns, mossy alcoves.

And I was like, this is literally in the city.

Like, what have I found?

I explored it for like two hours.

It's like, like the last like two hours of the day.

And I saw no one, not a single soul.

And I was like, this is perfect.

Holy moly.

This is perfect.

So I had a client and we were going to go way outside the city to try to find, you know, because typically, yeah, it just means go.

Go further than anyone else wants to go.

And that's how you find the places.

But.

Right.

But she and I agreed.

Okay, cool.

Let's like, go to this like, little place within the city.

Girl.

What I, what I discovered was this was a. Nestled in kind of like an elderly neighborhood.

And when I was exploring between 4 and 6pm Which I thought would be is prime time for people our age.

Right.

That's when everybody there was having dinner.

But at 11am that's when everybody's on their walk.

And we got run into like six.

Times, like in this little time.

And she, she was so comfortable.

Like, I, I, it couldn't have been a better person to have this thing because she just thought it was hilarious.

But it was so cute because we were mo.

It was mostly these older ladies and they multiple of them were like, oh my goodness, I wish I would have done that.

I still looked like y' all did.

Like, I'm so glad you're doing this.

And they were so sweet and so encouraging and it was just like this funny.

They're like, we saw some clothes back there.

We was wondering what we were gonn.

And it was so darling.

And so I do think that there is like, there is definitely an element of bravery and audacity and reclamation that happens.

Of course we're not trying to scare the children.

We're not trying to like you know, freak anybody out.

But also I, I mean, I think in my own like little world, I do think that we should have a little bit more comfortability with nudity.

Like, I do think that for sure that there is something, there is something really raw and correct about that.

And so yeah, I'm not.

And having a little like we are going to pause if somebody comes through but if they it there, it won't be unclear what's happening.

And so far I haven't gotten in trouble with anyone.

Like nobody's like called.

Everyone's been very supportive or very like, oh my.

You know, kind of, kind of thing.

Yeah, yeah.

I think that it's like it is a gamble.

And there's been that time was crazy how many people walked in on us.

Besides that, there's been like just a handful and normal and like oftentimes it's not even like when we're in shoot or like when we're in pose.

It's like because we're not just like walking around the woods naked the whole time.

It's like, yeah, robed up, warmed up.

And then, oh my goodness, here's the scene.

Here's the light.

Go over there for a second.

We're only there for a few minutes and then we put clothes back on.

So it's not like we're just on the hiking trail, butt cheeks out.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I love that.

And I do retract my statement around the 3 year old.

I think I, I also do have a three year old son and I think a three year old would probably be the best person to come across that because yeah, they, I mean they don't have any of those preconceived notions of what this means and they might have a lot of questions, but I think it'd be, yeah, it would be great for our kids to not necessarily like come upon naked women all the time, but just to like have that role modeled in their lives of this is okay.

So.

And it's like, there's like, such, like a.

There's such, like, a range of what nudity is and what it means and what, you know, like.

Like when you.

If you come across people who are clearly making art and like, art historically, what are.

Who's wearing clothes in these old oil paintings or these old marble statues?

Like, we're not.

Nobody's wearing clothes.

And, like, there is an understanding that, like, our raw essence is, like, where we are accessing the world of art.

And so I think that.

I mean, these shoots are so much about, like, unraveling shame and even some of that shame that, like, you should never be seen naked.

Yeah.

And, like, why.

You know, and I'm not saying let's, you know, start going to the grocery store exposing everybody, but, like, you're in the middle of nowhere, one or two people will pass you by and can tell and.

And catch a little nip slip as you, like, quickly, like, put a little blanket over yourself.

Like, I think that the reaction 100 of the.

Of the time has been encouraged, inspired.

Oh, my goodness.

Wow.

What are y' all up to?

Oh, this is so cool.

You know, and.

And yeah, it's not like people are like, holy moly.

I can't believe somebody's, like, doing something like that.

That is amazing.

You know, nobody's like, oh, my God, can you believe her?

Like, that's not happening.

So, yes, of course, I'm trying to find these places where it's.

It's the least likely.

And I. I spend time in them, like, trying to find after that one time, realizing I need to go at the time of day that I'm.

That I'm shooting at, you know, to walk through the space and both know how the light is going to act, but also know about how many people are coming through.

And I try to book it, you know, on weekdays and, you know, off season type time frames, so that we're doing everything that we can to not, you know, be a.

Be a whole hullabaloo.

But, yeah, it's not.

I don't own the things.

And sometimes people have taken me to their, like, private properties and stuff like that.

And then, of course, we're, you know, now it's a different situation.

But not every.

You know, I don't own the world.

For sure, nor do we want you to own the world.

We all.

We all own it and the fact that we belong to it.

So just so many beautiful images, like, coming to mind of what a shoot with you could look like.

And I just.

I really hope that a lot of people are getting a better sense of what this could be for them.

I did have the question of, like, do you ever do group shoots?

Does anyone ever, like, want to do this as a group?

Either a group of women or, you know, I don't know if men ever get in on this type of situation, but I was just curious if that's ever something that people do.

Um, I am calling in a season of dude war.

So I'm going to be shooting my first solo male.

Not in a couple.

In a couple of weeks.

So I'm very excited for that.

I've had a couple of men, like, reach out to me over the years, but they always seem to.

To, you know, I guess this one still has an opportunity to.

To fall through at the last minute, which has.

I really do think that there's something about the men who seem to be even.

Even more shameful than.

Than giving them credit for.

Yeah.

But, yeah, I have photographs.

One time I did a group.

Like, I.

There was a women's retreat, and at the last day, I, like, took everybody up into the woods and kind of like, went around and did some individuals and then, like, group stuff.

That was really fun.

I did a mom and her kids once where it was like, less.

Like, it wasn't in her lingerie, but just like a very flowy dress and like, coming up out of the water and holding her babies and like a very.

That.

That was intense.

I didn't.

I forget about children's capacities because I don't have a child.

And like.

Yeah, yeah, there's like this element.

Like, it.

It was cold and it was a little rainy.

And I forget, like, when kids are done, they are done.

And it did not matter that we were.

Yes.

30 minute walk from the car once we finished.

You know, like, we like, shot till the kid was done, but the kid was done at that point and the whole walk back, they could not understand why we were not in the car, why we were not finished yet, and why are we still here?

And I hate this.

And why are you doing this to me?

And I was like, oh, right, right.

Yes.

For the adults, we can be like, all right.

Yeah, it's a little.

A little uncomfortable elements, but we'll, like, stick through it.

You cannot ask children to do that.

And that was a great learning experience for me.

But I am so open.

I.

This past summer, there was.

I was supposed to do a group of friends, and then that didn't work out.

But that is something that is definitely in my heart and mind.

I think it would be so cute to have like three of cups energy of the tarot card where it's like the celebration of friendship and like three women like you know, just being throughout the space and coming together and celebrating each other.

I, I think this past year I really, really understood the necessity of female friendship in a way that I never have before.

And the ways that we can hold each other and the ways we need to be sharing the energetic load of what we are all navigating.

The fact that the thing that feels so fucking heavy for you, like you can't, you can't even move with it is like light for me because it's not my personal thing to navigate.

And so when you are outsourcing that energy, we, we're so scared of asking for help because the thing that we need help with feels like it would absolutely crush us to death.

And we're scared to like put that burden on someone else.

But it isn't that same density for them and asking for help from someone else.

They, they're like, oh, this is like picking up a, picking up a water bottle.

Like, I can get this, no problem.

Of course I got you.

And, and this, this year is when I really, or this past year is really when I realized that.

And so finding, finding some women who are like in each other's corner like that and have been holding each other and celebrating and enjoying the richness of friendship and then getting to document that and getting some individuals like that is something I'm super calling in.

I would love, love, love to do that.

But yeah, so far, yeah, it just, it came up on the radar this past year and it didn't happen.

But the, the dream is alive in my heart and I am, I am anticipating with great joy the moment I rendezvous with that reality.

Yes, yes, call it in for sure.

Can you talk a little bit more about like, why do you think men tend to be even more in shame than women are when it comes to doing something like this?

I only have speculation, that's fine.

But I think if I were to imagine it, women have been objectified for an incredibly long time.

And while that is super problematic, we do at least have a concept of being valuable just for existing, just for being something to look at.

And while our value has almost been limited to that, we, it's not that far fetched for us to imagine.

You know, I would, I, I should just be able to be seen and looked at and that, and that alone is like worth buying and, and having and doing.

I think men have their Value has always been tied to what they can do and what they can offer.

And so to just have this experience where you're just seen and just looked at and just.

You're not putting context of what you can offer, but you're put in just like, just, here's what I am.

Look at this.

I think that, I think that they.

Yeah.

That there seems to be a disconnect there.

If I, If I were to guess.

Yeah, yeah.

I think from what you reflected, it kind of made me think too of again, this vulnerability of it that men are not taught to be vulnerable, are not taught to be in touch with who they are at their core.

Like to turn inward and do that inner work.

It's always.

Yeah, what you said of what I can do, what I can produce, it's always external.

So I'd imagine it's.

It's a really vulnerable space for a lot of men to be in.

And also, you know, we know what it looks like and feels like to be a woman.

But also most men have a lot of insecurities in their bodies too, because all we see of what is beautiful and sexy in men is like rock hard abs and you know, being a big buff guy, still a super tiny waist.

And imagine for like the average man that has more weight on them than probably what they see in magazines, it would be hard to feel like they can be fully exposed and beautiful and sexy in that as well.

So, so cool that you are open and willing to do the full spectrum of humanity in your work or see the full spectrum of humanity in your work.

And I'm curious.

Like, I. I've been reflecting on my own sort of like, ability to hold or not hold that space for men and like, what it would look like, what it would feel like, how.

How would it be different?

You know, I've been speculating a lot on it because I have the upcoming shoot.

But then there's also been this.

There's also been this man that I've talked with a couple of times about doing it and then like watched him back out and had my own sort of like frustration with him about that because, like a little bit feels like it's like wasting my time because you're like, I'm gonna do it.

Okay.

No, I'm not.

Okay, wait, I'm thinking about doing it.

Okay.

Now I'm not.

Oh yeah.

I actually am interested in doing it.

Okay.

Actually, I can't.

And I'm like, either, like either do or don't, sir.

I don't really care.

And it has felt a little bit like he, like, wants me to, like, convince him to do it.

And I'm like, that ain't the energy, like, come.

Like, I want.

I want a yes from you.

And then we.

And then we figure out how to make it happen.

And I.

And I have been like, reflecting on myself on that and just being like, you know, with the tender gentleness that I would talk with women and the.

The not tender gentleness that I have talked with this man and realizing that the.

Whatever, like, the soft, feminine aspects of him that would be willing to do this are probably even more tender and.

And easily tramped than.

Than they are in women, because these aspects of men have just not been very fostered or held or appreciated or.

Or given space.

And so just, like, realizing my own sort of like, sarah, like, do you want to do this or not?

And.

And I know that part of my frustration with it is that, like, early on he kind of was like, well, can I send you, like, a picture of me and my underwear and stuff?

And I.

And I got.

I got very, like, I'm sorry, this is not a place to send me nudes.

Like, if you are paying, if you are a paying client, I'm here for it.

And if you are not, you are just a stranger on the Internet trying to send me a picture of your dick.

And I don't know that.

And so, like, figuring out how to hold that boundary for myself while also, like, tenderly inviting and.

And realizing that that's going to be clunky for all of us because none of us are exactly sure how to do this.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I.

It is a.

It's a.

It's an active thing that I'm learning and.

And realizing, like, wow, I really am very good at navigating women, and I don't exactly know what it takes or what step.

The appropriate way to navigate it with men.

And.

And if as an attractive female, if I even can, or if I'm just putting myself in the line of fire to.

To not be.

Yeah.

Vulnerability and intimacy are so close.

And like, you.

Somebody you feel like you can be vulnerable with, and now you're feeling intimate, and now you're catching feels, and now you're like, we're just in a delicate space, and then, like, where these lines blur and how to keep a professional.

It's just.

I'm like, maybe as much as I want to call that in and do believe it's possible, like, just, like, seeing the limitations of it and the pitfalls of it and just being very attentive to everything.

Yeah, it's complicated.

And now and it's.

And I'm actively it.

The things with women, I feel like I'm able to, like, be.

You know, I'm very, like, okay, in the bag, you know, and this is, like, my growth.

This is my mess.

This is my.

I can't wait to look back on this podcast in five years from now and be like, oh, girl, you did not know anything.

I totally get it.

And I posed that question, not fully thinking it all the way through, but as you were talking, I was like, oh, yeah, of course.

Like, there's a power dynamic here, too.

There's a power dynamic in terms of you hold the camera so there's power there, but then also, just in our society, like, a man could, you know, twist this into something that it's not meant to be, which it's so hard, again, to, like, live in a world where we even have to think.

Think that way and to feel like, I would love to, like, make this type of art with someone, and there are a lot of risks involved in this particular situation that there wouldn't be with women.

And I think especially alone in the.

Woods, I'm just thinking, wait a minute, hold on, hold on.

I need to know races.

What am I doing?

What am I thinking?

I want to take a stranger out here.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's.

It's a hard one to.

I mean, really have to vet the person that you're working with for sure.

But again, like, that's so hard to feel.

Like we can't fully just, like, embrace that aspect of humanity and sexuality.

And I'm sure there's plenty of really, like, genuine, loving men that would love to, like, be in that space.

And yet, as women, we still have to be like, yeah, this sounds like the beginning of, like, a serial killer movie.

And, like, you know, I. I'm coming to.

To love the limitations of it.

You know, I'm not out here be like, oh, it's so sad that it's like.

It's like, no, like, yeah, the limitations are.

Are what are keeping our experience.

Experience, like, where it should be, you know, and give us an opportunity to.

To grow from where we're at and not, like, fantasize about or.

How do I say this?

Hold the fantasy as the hope and the North Star, while also recognizing we're not there yet and like.

And not pretending that we're there because we'd like to be, but realizing that's what we're working towards.

This is what we're Working with.

And, like.

And that's okay that those aren't the same.

And I don't need to, like, go to the gym and be like, my little chicken arms be like, I'm gonna lift up 300 pounds.

And it's like, no, you're not.

You're gonna break yourself.

But I can maybe get to £300 with a long, consistent chip, chip, chip, chip, chippery towards it with, like, lighter weights, you know, and it's like knowing your limitation, recognizing that, honoring that, your own limitation, the societal limitation, the expectation limitation, like, and it's like, it's okay that we're there, and we all would benefit a lot from.

From moving towards a thing that could.

That could hold that where we.

Where.

Where all of our gentlest, tenderest, most vulnerable aspects, we're safe to come and play with each other.

Like, yeah, that.

You know how beautiful and.

And where we are.

And that's okay, you know?

Yes, absolutely.

Absolutely.

I just.

I love having this conversation because I really love talking about the divine masculine, the divine feminine energies within everyone.

And I think I am at a point in my evolution where I'm, like, ready to step a little bit beyond just talking about the feminine, even though I really, like, love this work with women.

And of course, it's my own experience.

So it's like, you know, we get to just relax and be like, yeah, this.

The patriarchy sucks.

Like, let's dismantle it and move forward.

But it sucks for men, too.

And, you know, I'm the mother of a son.

I'm the wife of my husband.

Like, I love men so much, and I see the.

Just the wilting that they have gone through as well, that men are extremely in a place of, like, they're struggling, the suicide rate is up.

Like, everyone is struggling.

It's not just women.

But also there is also the real fact that, like, men benefit from this system more than we do and have this dynamic where they can, you know, cause harm and have caused harm.

So it's a hard duality sometimes to hold.

But I do think that just having this conversation is so beneficial and to bring it home back to our women.

I definitely.

I resonate again, I said, like, being a mother, I think, is a huge transition in someone's body.

And I loved your story of having huge traps.

I also have, like, the hunchback, I think.

I think a lot of women, we all are, like, carrying a lot on our backs, but you have such a beautiful story of where that came from.

And I think my own story around My body, at least currently is, you know, around the fact that like I carried a human being in my body and I literally made a human.

Dude, that's crazy.

That's crazy.

It's so crazy without really even trying.

Like, pregnancy sucks, but it's also like you're not thinking about it.

You're not like, I'm going to make a lung today.

It's, it just happens and it's, it's the most insane process and then you have the battle scars afterwards and they are beautiful.

But I think for a lot of women and still for myself, like, it's hard to fully love and accept all of that or to just like feel like I can show this and be proud of it.

So I think for anyone out there that there's something with your body that you don't like.

I really think that this is such a cool way to really gift yourself an experience that could really help you feel like I can at least maybe not fully, like love it to the point where I'm like, I, I'm just gonna love on you and never have any bad or negative thoughts around it.

But to get to a place of like, acceptance and seeing yourself from a place of beauty, like, we all have beauty, beauty within ourselves and we all can experience pleasure in so many ways.

And I just really enjoy how you have pictured and taken us on a journey of what it looks like to work with you.

So thank you so much for being here.

Can you share with everyone where to find you, what you're doing currently, all, all the things that can help people get in your circle, in your ecosystem.

Yay.

Come on in, the water's fine.

Ren maro.com is my website and that's where you would make an inquiry form if you're interested to work with me or I also have a, a way to just like have a quick chat, like a little 15 minute chat if you're just curious on, I don't know, any part of the process or, or just want to talk about, I don't know, something that resonated with you.

There's a, there's a calendly link there to just like have a little chit chat with me.

And then I am Renmaro on Instagram.

And that is the chaotic place where I inconsistently share both my inner world, outer world, current fascinations, some of my work, some of my friends work and the memes that have tickled my fancy.

So.

I love that person after my own heart that doesn't give a fuck about what they put on Instagram girl, Get.

Into it or get out.

I missed the boat to be an influencer.

That's not gonna be my calling.

I can't curate.

I can't stay on brand.

What do you mean, brand?

What does that mean?

I'm just gonna.

Yeah.

I love that.

I love that so much.

It's like any business owner knows the struggle of social media.

And yeah, I'm just like, let's just show up the way we wanna show up.

Can we go back to, like, when we were just like, posting pictures about food and random that we do throughout the day and not care so much about this?

Yeah, it's a blast from the past.

It's a, it's a safe, nostalgic space for millennials everywhere.

That's so great.

That's so great.

Oh, my goodness.

Well, Ren, thank you so much for being with me today.

I don't think I've laughed this much in a podcast episode in a really long time.

I so enjoy your energy and I think anybody that would want to work with you would just have the most amazing experience.

So I really, really appreciate you for being here.

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Kayla.

This has been such a treat.

I really, I feel like we, we went some different places than I normally go on the podcast.

I really am in loving hearing more and more women focused on, on bringing the masculine back online as a part of this conversation.

Especially pleasure focused, embodied, powerful, divine, feminine energy women.

Like, we've gotta, we've gotta pull it online in ourselves.

We've gotta make space to pull it online in our men.

And, and I, I just, I can't handle the, like, poo pooing of men.

It's, it's a, it's a messy system that we were all drug through and scathed by and, and doing our best to figure out what it wanted from us so that we could survive.

And it's nobody's fault and it's all of our responsibility and the less finger pointing and the more bolstering we can do, the faster and healthier we will arrive to, to the future we're heading towards.

So I really appreciate that about you and, and your focus and, and I am so glad to hear that I made you laugh or we made each other laugh because that is very important.

Very important.

So that.

Thank you for mentioning that.

Absolutely.

The voices are great.

I wish I could turn them off.

So I could have an option, you know, But I use voices like some people use fonts, you know.

Well, it works.

It works.

And in the line of work you do, you know, making people feel comfortable is essential and laughter is definitely one of those ways.

So I think it works to your favor.

Well, until next time everyone, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you so much for listening and I will talk to you in my next episode.

Thank you for joining me for this episode of the Connected Pleasure Podcast.

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