Shownotes
Today I talk to Hermoine about her sober curious journey, how Christmas wine from school parents was a temptation too far, and how she continues to try to understand her relationship with alcohol shifting the balance of control in her favour. Hermoine reminds us beautifully that it's not always a one off decision to stop drinking, and that self compassion and reflection is key to learning and evolving.
Transcripts
Hi, everybody.
2
:I'm Vic and I don't drink.
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:Today, I'm going to talk to
my friend had Moni ammonia.
4
:Tony's going to share how her gate
crashing a friend's art class smart.
5
:The start.
6
:The sober, curious journey.
7
:And how being brave can really
help you to become the person.
8
:. vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Hi
Hermoine, how are you doing?
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
doing good Vic, it's so nice to see you.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: It's
lovely to see you as well.
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:thank you so much for coming on today.
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:Wonderful to have you with me.
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:And for anyone who's listening,
Hermoine and I have been friends
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:for a very, very long time.
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:we met gosh, 30
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
oh my goodness me, this is when
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:we realise, what age we are.
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:early 20s, so yeah, 20, 25 years?
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307:
Something like that.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: after
university and we're drawn to each other.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: but
we did have a wonderful time
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:and some real highs and lows.
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:And Hermione, like me, has come to
the realization that Perhaps alcohol
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:doesn't always serve her well.
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:So she's very kindly, decided to come
on and talk to us about that story.
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:and I call her Mornie H, so
it's going to be H from now on.
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:I think it is much less formal for us.
30
:H,
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: Yes.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: the story
that I ask, that I ask everyone
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:to tell is completely their own.
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:And I know obviously lots about what
you've been through, in your time, but
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:it would be really good just to hear.
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:a little bit about you, who you
are now, and then a bit about your
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:sliding doors moments and how you
came to the decision that alcohol
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:possibly isn't your best friend.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
I would love to share
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:my rambling story, Vic.
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:But also, thank you very much for
inviting me onto your podcast.
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:I know my first message back to you was,
Oh, no, actually, I'm not really sure
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:I'm the sort of person that you'd want to
talk to, because I would call myself sober
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:curious, if that's a thing, so it's still
very much, a voyage of discovery for me,
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:really, who, who am I with and without
alcohol, but it's been a very enlightening
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:experience, especially having just
finished my psychology degree as well,
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:that's really helped me to understand kind
of what's happening to me when I do drink.
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:because I never used to drink.
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:even when I think back to school
days and everyone was sort of
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:down at the youth club with their
diamond wine and, I'd have a sip
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:and be like, Oh, that's disgusting.
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:Why do you want to get drunk?
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:Do you know what I mean?
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:My parents didn't drink.
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:none of my friends did.
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:So really,, it wasn't on
my radar at all until I got
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:together with my now ex husband.
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:So he was three years older than me.
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:and yeah, we'd go out and we'd just drink
and I just suddenly found myself drinking.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
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:yourself to love it, I suppose.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
You know that first sip and you're
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:like, Oh God, it's just the ethanol,
you know, it's just horrible.
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:But you do it like that
first cigarette, you know,
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
I think when I was younger,
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:I was incredibly shy.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
I wasn't very confident in social
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:situations and actually those
sips of alcohol, I was like, Oh,
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:actually I'd let loose a little bit.
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:I mean, Oh, I'm really fun.
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:it was a confidence thing.
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:So I would find myself then in social
situations where I'd be like, Oh, we'll
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:just, I'll have a drink before I go out.
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:particularly in the university
days, it was a thing that we did
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:to save money as well, wasn't it?
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Mm-Hmm?
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Go down Threshers, three
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:bottles of wine for a tenner.
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:Save yourself some
money before you go out.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: of wine for a 10.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Oh my god.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: age.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
I know, because I remember going
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:down to the Threshers when I
lived in Cardiff with Karen?
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:Drunk Bridesmaid.
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:another story.
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:yeah, we used to go down, like, with our,
get our pennies together and da da da.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
thinking back to those times, Vic, you
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:know, it was the 90s, there was a whole,
La Dette culture, they were trying to
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:sell us Alka Pops, it was Pound a Pint,
in a way, not saying that we're not
94
:culpable, it was part of our culture.
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:Do you know what I mean?
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:It was, part of our identity.
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:And I think that sense of, again,
like from a psychology point
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:of view, that sense of wanting
to belong to a group as well.
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:everyone was doing it, so you did it,
and it was just a normal thing to do.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah,
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: But
it did, you know, it did start to spiral.
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:I probably wasn't aware of how much
I was drinking because everyone
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:around me was drinking the same.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: yeah.
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:definitely at university.
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:I was
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: a friend
of mine who I shared a room with
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:at university, about this podcast.
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:And we were saying that we
remember one night where we
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:tried not to go out and drink.
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:we were in our room and literally trying
really hard not to leave the house.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Oh my God.
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:It's mad, isn't it?
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: succeed.
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:We left.
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:We couldn't deal with it.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: wrong
with that because everyone was
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:doing it and everyone was out
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Actually.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: So
completely understand what you mean.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
And it's that, cognitive dissonance, it's
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:almost like you know what you're doing is
not healthy, you know it's kind of wrong
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:for you, and you know it doesn't really
serve you, but you're doing it anyway, and
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:you're justifying it because everyone else
is doing it, so you kind of get caught in
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:this loop,
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:Of behaviours and yes, it is a
very addictive substance and it
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:does marvellous things to your
brain to make it that way as well.
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:The more you drink, the
more you need for that buzz.
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:So yeah, I went sort of on and off
with the drinking, but like I said,
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:it was just very, it was normal.
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:All my friends did it, and then going,
into my 20s and 30s, it was still
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:very much part of my everyday life.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
but it was never just a
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:glass of wine with dinner.
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:It was a bottle, because why would you?
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:What do you need bottle stops for?
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:I remember always like making that joke as
well, like, Oh, I don't need a bottle stop
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:because I'm going to finish the bottle.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: and
then in my marriage, drinking was very
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:much part of our relationship as well.
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:We are divorced and we have been divorced
for 12 years, but I can reflect on that
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:period and see how I didn't quite see the
things that were breaking down in that
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:marriage because of the alcohol as well,
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Well, it
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
right?
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:It
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: an anesthetic.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
absolutely does.
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:And I think, I, I've used
it as a coping mechanism
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: yeah.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
over the years, but for different reasons.
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:So to start with, it was, I'm a bit
more confident, I'm a bit more fun.
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:then as I got a bit older, Not
quite happy in that situation, not
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:quite happy in that relationship
or, let's go to the happy moments.
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:I feel really happy.
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:Let's have a drink.
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:I feel really sad.
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:Let's have a drink.
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:Something awful just happened.
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:I have a drink.
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:I remember phoning you the
night that my marriage came to a
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
and I hadn't had a drink for ages.
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:the first thing I did after speaking to
you was I went out and bought some wine.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Oh my
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
I just needed you.
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:No, I don't.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: that to
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Well, actually it was you, sorry.
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:Actually, the trigger
in all of this is you.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: I'll take that.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
But yeah, so, it's been a coping
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:mechanism, for so many things.
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:But it's in that moment of
being sober, I've realised,
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:how controlling it has been.
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:like a literal and figurative
toxic relationship.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah,
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: that is
very much how I see alcohol as well.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: for me, ending
that relationship, but I had to be
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:completely ending the relationship.
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:So you know, not that horrible boyfriend
that managed to sneak his way back in.
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:But actually, no, absolutely.
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:It's a no from now on for me, because
just, couldn't try to do the moderation
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:and then like managing the situation and
that voice of it will be okay this time,
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah, it'll be different this time.
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:I can control it.
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:I can moderate it.
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:Oh, and then we justify it
again, that cognitive dissonance.
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:Oh, well, I deserve it.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: yeah,
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: And you feel
like it's at that, when I've been at
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:the beginning, when I've been in that,
position of losing that relationship,
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:if you like, if we have the parallel,
I absolutely had to remind myself that
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:there was nothing about it that was good.
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:And I had to get rid of that dissonance.
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:It had to be true for me.
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:And I mean, really true for me that this
is not something that I actually enjoy.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307:
literally immersed myself.
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:I can't
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: Hmm.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: how much
podcasts, how much books or like
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:everything just to get my brain to go,
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: Hmm.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307:
actually, this isn't the positive
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:thing it's been telling you is
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
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:And that's the thing, isn't it?
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:Your, it absolutely does trick your brain.
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:It changes your neural pathways,
you know, I said about the dopamine.
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:I mean, that, is depressed, your
serotonin levels drop, you know,
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:all these things that are designed
to make you feel good and help your
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:memory and all this sort of stuff.
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:it has an effect on your mental health.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah,
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
No question about it.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: yeah.
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:And I wonder what that does, you
know, when you talked earlier about
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:your confidence in the beginning and
perhaps you drank for confidence.
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:I think lots of people do that because I
think, particularly when you're like an
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:awkward teen and you're coming into, those
situations where you want to feel good.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
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:And it's a legal drug.
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:I think if alcohol never existed and
somebody just came up today and went,
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:Oh, I've just made this new substance.
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:Do you want to try it?
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:I'd be like, Oh my
actual God, what is that?
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:Here, have some poison.
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:Supermarkets are filled with shells of it.
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:You know, it's crazy.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: I know.
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:So what changed then?
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:What changed for you that made you
even think about stopping this?
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:Was there a sliding doors moment
or was it a buildup of events?
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:What was it?
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Honestly, it'd been a build
244
:up, I've always considered
myself to be very self aware.
245
:I wasn't always comfortable with, the
fact that I was drinking quite heavily.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Mm hmm.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
even saying it now, you know,
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:there's so much kind of shame and
guilt attached to it, , you feel
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:like you're not a proper functioning
human, , but actually, oh my god, um,
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:so yeah, it was a gradual build up of.
251
:things, really.
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:And I, again, that control thing,
I just wanted to take control.
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:because my day would be defined by it.
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:I would have what you call the, what
is it, the witch, the wine witch.
255
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: yeah,
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
she'd literally pop up.
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:So I'd be in a lecture or something,
for example, and I'd be like, Oh,
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:this, I'm having a really good day.
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:I'm really enjoying this lecture.
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:Oh, I can't wait to have
a glass of wine later on.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: yeah.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
So my whole day would revolve around
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:it, not in a wake up and put up,
you know, I'm a serial kind of way,
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
but it would be there.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: The chatter.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah, and I'm not going to lie.
268
:the voice is still there now.
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:I'm thinking, Oh, this is great.
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:I can have a glass of wine.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
but I'm not,
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:So it was, it was a buildup of things
Vic, and I didn't like who I was becoming.
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:I didn't like how I felt in the mornings.
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:My anxiety, I was feeling very low.
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:I didn't like the fact that my
daughter was getting older and she
277
:was making comments about my drinking.
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:Not that, like, oh mummy, you're drunk.
279
:Because, you know, I'm an absolute
hate when I'm drunk, and, It's
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:great when they're younger.
281
:When they get older, they're
like, Oh, Mummy, you're drunk.
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:Like, you're talking very loudly, Mummy.
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:Are you drunk?
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:And, oh, I didn't want to be, I
didn't want to be that person.
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:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: My daughter said
to me once before I stopped drinking,
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:Mummy, you've got your drunk voice on.
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:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: Yes.
288
:Oh, my God.
289
:And you just think, oh, what
have I, what I've become?
290
:Like, just the shame.
291
:And I felt that I wasn't a good mum.
292
:I wasn't a good daughter.
293
:I wasn't a good friend.
294
:Because I'd be going out
and, again, life and soul.
295
:But people would be telling me stuff
and then the next day I'd not remember.
296
:Or I'd think, oh God, what did I say?
297
:I know I've done it with
you a couple of times.
298
:I've sent you messages, like, oh
God, I'm so sorry I sent that.
299
:And you're like, what?
300
:I didn't even, didn't even notice.
301
:But your mind, in that state, you're
thinking, I think I just felt embarrassed.
302
:But the, there was a bit of a sliding
door moment at the end, which was,
303
:I'd had a bottle of wine very quickly,
a glass and then another glass and my
304
:friend just happened to be over the road.
305
:in the church doing an art group.
306
:She was a personal carer for someone.
307
:I thought it'd be brilliant
to go over and say hello.
308
:They just finished up their
painting, but it was taking a long
309
:time for their paintings to dry.
310
:So they had a few hair dries.
311
:I was like, I'll help out.
312
:And I managed to smudge
a couple of paintings.
313
:I offered to do some art sessions
over the next couple of months.
314
:Oh my gosh, Vic, the next day I just died,
315
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah,
316
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
absolutely died, all the feelings,
317
:all the shame, and yeah, I just, I was
like, that's it, I can't do it anymore,
318
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: it's the,
319
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
absolutely mortified.
320
:Yes, what must they have thought of me
and yeah, I mean I can laugh about it now,
321
:it is still quite a funny story because
my friend's actually got her picture
322
:up on the wall with a smudge on it and,
323
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: oh
324
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
but I do kind of look at
325
:it and I'm like eeeeee.
326
:And actually, again, I remember
messaging you probably the day after
327
:to, to tell you what I did, because
actually I needed to tell someone and
328
:then I knew you'd understood and I
needed to be, I needed to own that.
329
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: yeah,
330
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
because there's so much secrecy
331
:around the whole thing of
drinking anyway, isn't there?
332
:And I, I found it relatively
easy, for about eight months.
333
:I was just determined.
334
:I was like enough is actually
enough, like I don't want to do this.
335
:And then something happened
around Christmas time and I,
336
:I was working in a school.
337
:It may have had something to do with
like the 20 bottles of wine that children
338
:had bought me, which I tried to re gift.
339
:I kid you not.
340
:I'm like, oh, more alcohol.
341
:No more, I just can't.
342
:I know.
343
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307:
to buy teachers wine.
344
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah, please don't buy them.
345
:They don't order drink wine.
346
:But, and I've managed to kind of give a
lot of it away and I found myself just, I
347
:had the Christmas feel, I love Christmas.
348
:Ah, it just fill my heart.
349
:But I had a moment of just feeling
incredibly alone, I was like.
350
:Oh, something's missing.
351
:I'm gonna have a glass of red wine.
352
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307:
whisper was there.
353
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Just one.
354
:Just a little glass of wine.
355
:Do you know what else I'm gonna do?
356
:I'm gonna go out and
buy myself some cheese.
357
:So I'm gonna make it a cheesy wine
thing and put it on a Christmas film.
358
:And that's all I'm gonna have.
359
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: yeah,
360
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
do you know what?
361
:I only had two glasses.
362
:And I was like, yep,
that's all under control.
363
:But gradually it became a bottle
again, and it's kind of gone up
364
:and down since then due to various
kind of life events and things.
365
:Nothing horrid's happened, but
just a few kind of trigger points.
366
:So I'm learning how to navigate
those in more healthy ways for me.
367
:Yeah.
368
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: And it's really
difficult Christmas is something that
369
:lots of people really struggle with.
370
:Because if you have associations,
well there's, for me
371
:there's a couple of things.
372
:There's the summer, sitting outside
373
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Oh my God.
374
:Yes.
375
:Instant connection with
the sunshine, isn't it?
376
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: You go past
a pub and everyone's sitting there.
377
:And I think, oh, how glamorous they look.
378
:You know,
379
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
380
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: to
really use the play it forward
381
:tool for myself for that, because
382
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
383
:Yeah.
384
:Yeah.
385
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: I sit outside
a pub at three o'clock in the afternoon
386
:on a nice Saturday afternoon is not
pretty but it's funny how your brain
387
:can tell you that it really is.
388
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Oh, and it does it in an instant.
389
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Very
hard to tell your brain when
390
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Oh, it is.
391
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: long.
392
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah, and, for me, Vic, like you said,
393
:the whole brain thing's really helped me.
394
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
395
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: So I
label it, I'm like, right, okay, you need
396
:to find your dopamine fix somewhere else.
397
:You need to search for your serotonin.
398
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yes.
399
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: so
that might be Having a really nice chai
400
:latte, which I'm quite into at the moment.
401
:It might be sticking on some tunes, going
for a walk, you know, move your body if
402
:you need to, if you're feeling anxious.
403
:meditations also really help.
404
:Watching some trashy TV,
just any, phone a friend.
405
:Watch some stuff on TikTok, just
find your little pockets of joy.
406
:and you will find, that, that voice.
407
:It does come and go.
408
:Do you know what I mean?
409
:It doesn't, mine doesn't linger.
410
:It will just be little snippets
like, Oh, have a glass of wine,
411
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
412
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
but that's just my brain's
413
:link with it, you know?
414
:And it's just changing that thinking.
415
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307:
and it's pausing, isn't it?
416
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah, it absolutely is.
417
:And that's, a big part
of meditation as well.
418
:It's, you know, like watching the,
watching the clairs pass through the
419
:sky, sensing that and what you let
is acceptance, commitment therapy.
420
:Don't know if you've heard of
it, Vic, but it's letting those
421
:uncomfortable thoughts come in.
422
:You sit with them and
then they will go again.
423
:Like they don't define you.
424
:Yes, but that's the whole thing.
425
:You know, this whole drink.
426
:I drink to be happy.
427
:I drink when I'm sad, da, da, da.
428
:All of those feelings are
part of everyday life anyway.
429
:And like you said, the alcohol
isn't serving that or taking
430
:it away or making it better.
431
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: yeah,
432
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
It's just there with you on the journey.
433
:If anything, it just exacerbates it.
434
:It's not a helpful friend, actually,
435
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307:
is not a helpful friend.
436
:I'm a
437
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: no.
438
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: friend.
439
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yes, . But that's the thing, yeah,
440
:check in with a friend, just anything.
441
:Pockets of joy.
442
:And something I've learnt working,
in a school with small humans,
443
:you know, they're not drunk.
444
:They don't need wine.
445
:They are free.
446
:They are full of joy.
447
:They are literally, like,
90 percent serotonin.
448
:And there's so much to be
learnt from watching them go.
449
:Do you know what I mean?
450
:They're mindful 24 seven.
451
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: yeah,
452
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Brilliant.
453
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: yeah,
454
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
yeah, that's really helped me.
455
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: I think
almost everyone that I've spoken
456
:to has referenced that in some
way How there was a point in your
457
:life where you didn't drink alcohol
458
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah, exactly.
459
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: very free
460
:think that it might have been Nick
recently on another podcast talking
461
:about think about that, you know, when
you're thinking I need it actually
462
:try and find that moment of where you
had a lot of freedom and happiness
463
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah, that joy, that freedom.
464
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
465
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Phenomenal.
466
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: And I know that
you still have your struggles about it.
467
:And I know that you didn't want
to come on this because of that.
468
:And I'm glad I pushed you because, it's
really important because there's lots
469
:of people who are curious about this
or have given it a go and have lasted
470
:a while or haven't lasted a while.
471
:So maybe just lurking, just
wondering what it's all about still,
472
:but it's really useful to have.
473
:your thoughts on it and
where you've got to.
474
:So what do you think your biggest
challenge is with this then?
475
:what's the blocker that
stops you saying that's it?
476
:Is there something what is it?
477
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
I don't know.
478
:I guess if I knew what the block
was, then there wouldn't be one.
479
:That sounds very facetious, isn't it?
480
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: No,
481
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
But I.
482
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: true.
483
:It's true, I suppose.
484
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
I, I think, like you said in the
485
:past, I've been very hard on myself.
486
:something I always say to other
people, generally more about
487
:mental health, but this applies
here is that, nothing is linear,
488
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yes.
489
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
said to me like,
490
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
491
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
is not linear, so you're going
492
:to have up and down days.
493
:So, that's why I call this
a voyage of discovery.
494
:because I don't want to
drink and I'm not drinking.
495
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
496
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
self compassionate.
497
:If I were to have a drink, I would try not
to give myself too much of a hard time.
498
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: fairly common and
actually for lots of people is an easier
499
:way to approach this than the kind of
finite, I'm not going to do this anymore.
500
:There's other people like me where
that would be torturous because
501
:I would feel like, I was constantly
having the conversation in my head.
502
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
yeah.
503
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: you've known me
a long time and I'm very black and white.
504
:I'm doing it or I'm not doing it.
505
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah, and I love that.
506
:I think, yeah,
507
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: been
helpful in this situation.
508
:It's not always helpful in all situations.
509
:I know that much too, but I just wondered
if there was something that was, making
510
:it harder for you to make that decision.
511
:Or if it is, as you say,
just, it's more of a voyage.
512
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
no, thinking about the block, I
513
:think probably somewhere I still
see it as a coping mechanism.
514
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
515
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
but I don't want to use it as one.
516
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
517
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: And
like I said, I'm figuring out other ways
518
:to cope with my triggers and stresses
519
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
520
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
I want to get to a point where,
521
:and I think I am there, um,
where I do feel in control of it.
522
:So I don't have to have a drink.
523
:I can go, a few weeks.
524
:I can go out without drinking.
525
:I can have one drink now, but quite
often I'll just choose not to, so
526
:yeah, it's just sort of reframing my
relationship with alcohol really and
527
:understanding why I'm doing it and
if I'm doing it for the right reasons.
528
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: And I
think you're absolutely right.
529
:Like if the reason is it's a coping
mechanism, it's not the right reason.
530
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: No.
531
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: it's great
that you can see that and like
532
:looking back on your story, you can
see where that was a thing all the
533
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: Hmm.
534
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: It's a real
535
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Absolutely.
536
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
537
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: do
it when you're in that state because you
538
:don't have the capacity to reflect and
think about what it is actually doing.
539
:And when you do, it's
uncomfortable and then you ignore
540
:it and you carry on doing it.
541
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
542
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
yeah.
543
:Yeah.
544
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: you
get, well, certainly I got
545
:quite high anxiety with alcohol.
546
:So, I like you,, if something great had
happened or something bad had happened,
547
:that was sort of my go to, woo, let's
have a drink or boo, let's have a
548
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
but don't you think as well, Vic,
549
:we had an element of, FOMO when
we were drinking back in the day?
550
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yes.
551
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: I'd
be the one that was up all night and I'd
552
:go to bed when everyone was getting up,
553
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
554
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
but I'd still drink in that time.
555
:Like, what was that?
556
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
557
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
How am I not dead?
558
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307:
chasing something, isn't it?
559
:Yeah, I know.
560
:I don't know.
561
:I mean, I thought I was a machine,
but you were also a machine.
562
:I mean, to be able to stay up
all night like that, mind you,
563
:who wants to stay up all night
when you can have a lovely sleep?
564
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Oh, yes, the loveliest sleep.
565
:I wake up without any hangover
or headache or anxieties.
566
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307:
Oh, it's so nice, isn't it?
567
:That's the
568
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
569
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: The best bit
for me is when you wake up in the morning
570
:and you didn't send a stupid message to
someone or do anything weird like that.
571
:I don't have to check my phone
or ring my friend and say,
572
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
And I think that's one of the first
573
:things you said to me was about,
when you think about the next day,
574
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
575
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: when
you do get that voice in your head, you
576
:go, actually this might serve you now.
577
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
578
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
tenfold it ain't gonna, you know,
579
:so think of your future self and
again, it's that self-compassion
580
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yes.
581
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: way.
582
:Um, and also I think they're
going off on a tangent the whole.
583
:drinking, not drinking thing.
584
:as well as it holding up a mirror
to yourself, it also holds up a
585
:mirror to other people around you.
586
:I don't know if you've found this
Vic, but when you first stopped,
587
:and obviously we're known in the
past for lacking awareness too.
588
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Mm hmm.
589
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
And when you say to people, you're
590
:not drinking, they're like, Why?
591
:And you can almost see the discomfort in
their brains, they're like, Oh my god,
592
:does that mean I'm drinking too much?
593
:Like, do I have to stop drinking as well?
594
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Well,
595
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
And then,
596
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: being around
sober people when I was drinking.
597
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: oh,
me too, I'd be like, why don't you drink?
598
:What's wrong with you?
599
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: And
it was a really weird feeling.
600
:Like, if you were out for an evening,
for dinner, and you weren't drinking
601
:that night when I was drinking, I
actually would have been a bit annoyed.
602
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
I'd be like, what's wrong with you?
603
:Antibiotics, one drink will be fine.
604
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah, come on.
605
:Gosh,
606
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
my god.
607
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: isn't it?
608
:But that's the control.
609
:That's what it has.
610
:It made you think this isn't
going to be as much fun, not only
611
:with if I drink or not, but if you
drink or not, it's such a, just so
612
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: Yes.
613
:It's mad.
614
:squadcaster-iae9_2_10-16-2024_181644:
Basically, women of our
615
:generation, It's kind of not
our fault that we drink so much.
616
:Think back to the LADET culture of the
90s, and we've kind of grown up with that.
617
:And actually, there is a public health
concern about women of our age in
618
:particular, because of all this drinking.
619
:interestingly as well, is a
change in alcohol cultures
620
:with the younger generation.
621
:So there is actually, they
are seeing a decrease.
622
:vic_2_10-16-2024_181645: Okay.
623
:squadcaster-iae9_2_10-16-2024_181644:
Something that I witnessed when I
624
:went back to university, I made this
presumption they'd all be going to bars.
625
:They were like, no, we're
just going to go for a coffee.
626
:vic_2_10-16-2024_181645: Wow.
627
:squadcaster-iae9_2_10-16-2024_181644:
a juice.
628
:And I think it's all around, more
value and acceptance being placed
629
:on diversity and personal choice.
630
:It's okay to be a little
bit more different than it
631
:vic_2_10-16-2024_181645: Yeah.
632
:squadcaster-iae9_2_10-16-2024_181644:
when we were younger.
633
:vic_2_10-16-2024_181645: Yeah.
634
:Yeah.
635
:Oh, it's completely okay.
636
:I love it.
637
:And we're, we're both
examples of that now.
638
:And actually that's a really nice
thing because we are examples to our
639
:sons and daughters, that you don't
have to do what everyone else does.
640
:Do you?
641
:And also just because you've done
something before doesn't mean
642
:that you have to keep doing it.
643
:squadcaster-iae9_2_10-16-2024_181644:
and that's a beautiful thing.
644
:vic_2_10-16-2024_181645: it is.
645
:squadcaster-iae9_2_10-16-2024_181644:
a lovely example to set as well.
646
:vic_2_10-16-2024_181645: Yeah,
647
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: yes
648
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
And like, you know when I'm like
649
:dragging you to see musicals and stuff?
650
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
651
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
you were like, you say I
652
:didn't really like musicals.
653
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
654
:I didn't enjoy it.
655
:Well, one of the reasons I didn't
like them is that I would think,
656
:to get to the bar, isn't it?
657
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: Yes.
658
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: it was a bit
of an interruption to my night out.
659
:That's how I saw it.
660
:If I'm honest.
661
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Do you know how many delicious
662
:musicals I've watched sober?
663
:it's lovely going out and
remembering things and enjoying
664
:it in the moment, you know?
665
:It's just priceless.
666
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: I
went to see the Pet Shop Boys
667
:sober and it was unbelievable.
668
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Exactly.
669
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: so good.
670
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
The amount of concerts in the past week
671
:that I've gone to, like, I remember
going to one with Rob, halfway through,
672
:I really had to go to the toilet.
673
:Left.
674
:Walked back in and walked into
the wrong side of the stadium.
675
:I couldn't find him.
676
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Oh God.
677
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
were both so hammered.
678
:We left before the concert even finished.
679
:And that just says it all,
680
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: it
681
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
honestly.
682
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: It
683
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Who was that?
684
:I don't know.
685
:I mean, she was fun.
686
:And that was one of the things I think
I worried about when I stopped drinking.
687
:It's like, oh, who am I without alcohol?
688
:Am I still going to be fun?
689
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: yeah,
690
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
actually, yes.
691
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: yeah,
692
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
I won't embarrass myself anymore.
693
:Well, I probably will, but I am more fun.
694
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: yeah.
695
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
I feel more confident.
696
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: like I had to
literally say goodbye to that part of
697
:me and realize that I am fun just the
way that I am and it's completely fine.
698
:but that crazy fun, that's sort
of gone now for me, I suppose.
699
:And sometimes, so recently I
was at a work conference And it
700
:was the big gala dinner night.
701
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
702
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: I was thinking,
Oh, I'll probably go to bed then.
703
:And it was like half 10 and everyone
was just getting on the dance floor.
704
:And I just took myself off to
bed and I did think to myself.
705
:people, so I've been a relatively new
team and I was like, Oh, I hope they
706
:don't all think I'm really boring
because like my old teams would all
707
:have been like, Oh, Vic's crazy.
708
:And she'll stay up
709
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
710
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: and
all those kinds of things.
711
:then I did the play it forward and
like, how am I going to feel tomorrow?
712
:And there wasn't many work conferences
that I went to that the next morning
713
:I thought, well, that was great.
714
:And I didn't make an idiot of myself.
715
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
716
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: I'd
717
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
And also I was going to say that
718
:the people that were staying up late
and on the dance floor, they were
719
:probably maybe a little bit too drunk
to even realize that you'd left.
720
:Do you know what I mean?
721
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307:
idea that I'd gone.
722
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Exactly.
723
:So it's like winner.
724
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: No one notices.
725
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Yeah.
726
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Last question.
727
:If you were gonna talk to yourself before
you got curious about not drinking so
728
:say Say the night before you went out
to that art thing, what would you say to
729
:yourself about what you're capable of and
where you can get to if you don't drink?
730
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
I would say to myself that you
731
:have no idea what you are capable
of if you only realise that
732
:you are absolutely in control.
733
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yes.
734
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306: And
you are the only person that can decide
735
:that, but you have absolute control
736
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
737
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
everything you do, everything you think.
738
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Yeah.
739
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
You just need to be brave.
740
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: Well, I think
you're extremely brave and thank you.
741
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Right back atcha.
742
:Aww,
743
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: you for coming
on and telling everyone your story.
744
:And I know there will be people
listening to this who just
745
:think, God, she sounds like me.
746
:I'm going to get a bit more
curious about it as well.
747
:And you will have helped people.
748
:I'm telling you, we will have
helped people by doing this.
749
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Thank you honey, it's been lovely.
750
:vic_1_10-16-2024_173307: soon.
751
:squadcaster-iae9_1_10-16-2024_173306:
Thank you.
752
:Bye!
753
:squadcaster-bg06_9_09-21-2024_084137:
Thank you for listening to our
754
:Sober Alcohol Free Stories.
755
:If you felt that it helped you, make
sure that you like, share and follow.
756
:And leave a review on podchaser.
757
:com.
758
:And remember, make your
catchphrase, I don't drink
