The Casey Anthony trial for the death of 2-year old Caylee Anthony captivated the nation from 2008 to 2011. An early contender for the trial of the century, Scarlet hosts Sonia Meza-Leon and Brittney Sherman take a deep dive into the history, the lies, and the deception that made Casey the prime murder suspect of her own daughter from the start. Listen to episode 1 of the new True Crime Podcast, Scarlet!

Sources: Casey Anthony, an American Murder Mystery, Marcia Clark Investigates podcast, CourtTV, Wikipedia

The statements made in this podcast are meant to be taken

strictly as opinion and not as statements of fact or evidence in the case as

discussed this episode of Scarlet contains graphic details about decomposing

bodies and violence against children.

Listener discretion is advised.

Hey podcasters

welcome to the new true crime podcast.

Scarlet.

So today Bernice Sherman and Sonia, Emilio are talking

about the case of the Anthony saga.

There's

been so much covered about this.

Well, it's what 10, 11 years old, 2008 is when it originally

happens when Kaylee went missing,

it feels like it was so much earlier than that.

I feel like this was like a 1990 story that happened, but you're right.

It wasn't actually that long ago that would've put me just moving to wait.

Now I would've been eight.

No, that was when I moved to LA.

I would have been here in LA for 10 years, which is why I was not paying

attention other than the fact that it happened in Orlando, which is

my hometown and, um, and all sorts of crazy shit happens in Orlando.

In Florida.

There's definitely an underbelly to Orlando college life there.

You know, and that's where UCF is.

That's where UCF is.

It's bigger, bigger school now.

And I went there with a much smaller, I mean, everything was like dirt,

parking, lots, dirt, everything.

It was awful.

Um, it was a small school, but now, I mean, you know, obviously they're

doing well with their football team, but it's still the same champions.

Yeah.

I don't know what it is about the south.

And just being in a place where it's hot in general, people get really

sweaty and then they start doing a lot of drugs and they started drinking

and it just all goes downhill.

From there, you see so many weird things happen.

I don't know what

it is.

The he and come that will mess with people.

I mean, dehydration does crazy things to people.

I don't want to think.

I don't think Casey Anthony though.

I don't think what happened to her is a result of the drugs

and alcohol and the party.

I think she's telling you waiting.

I think that this was if not completely planned out and of course we'll get

to all the theories and everything.

This wasn't a, I don't think this was a.

Drunken mistake.

I don't

think this was a whim that happened.

I agree.

I, well, I don't, I not necessarily a whim being, it was unplanned,

but I don't, I'm not even sure if it wasn't just an accident.

Um, but there are so many weird, weird pieces to this and, and all you can

think of is if it was, if she wasn't guilty, why did she lie about it?

You know, I mean, the lies

so many lives and bursts so well, and

they never stopped well, if you had an accident, which is what

it appears may have happened, one of the theories anyway, you know, what's wrong

just saying it was an accident, unless you were doing something in the moment

that the accident happened, that you could get in trouble for which, you know, that

kind of was for emo, you know, what is the point in lying and just saying she

drowned well, yeah, obviously that is kind

of her biggest defense theory.

Her family's defense more or less.

Uh, but, okay, so, so let's back up a little.

This was obviously huge news that happened in 2008, went to trial.

It really officially in 2011, uh, kindly went missing and

it was, it was everywhere.

It was the trial of the century, 15 years after OJ.

So pretty fast how we had two of those and then 15 years, uh, I mean, I absolutely

hated this, but I remember it so vivid.

She had the name all around.

Thanks, Nancy.

Grease up the top mom.

Like that was just her.

She called the top mom.

I don't remember.

I don't know because Nancy, grace came up with it and Nancy, grace loves

headlines.

She led us to, yeah, she's young a lot.

And that was most of what I heard about it.

My mom was, I did not remember this until just recently when I talked to her

about it, but she said she watched this.

Um, my mom's 85 now and

she watched this case.

Um, every minute of it, she said, and it was on the local cable network.

So she got up and everyday she watched the whole

trial and, um, you know, it was just, it was really close to home

because I have people who are close to it.

And I knew exactly the areas where they were talking about where they live,

where they found the child's body.

Um, it was really close to home.

And, um, I think that's where we back up and we kind of go back to the beginning at

least of how this first came to fruition.

So we've got our timeline, June 15th, 2008.

Um, Caylee Anthony was last seen with her great-grandfather and an assistant.

Apparently that is the last day that anyone saw Kaley

alive outside of the immediate

Brittney Sherman:

family, her Kaylee's mom.

Brittney Sherman:

Casey, of course.

Brittney Sherman:

And Casey's grandparents or Casey's parents.

Brittney Sherman:

Keely's grandparents saw her alive the next morning or, sorry.

Brittney Sherman:

So on the 16th.

Okay.

On June 6th, especially the date that she went and got it.

And I think there's a little distraught you're right.

And there's a little discrepancy there on when I get Sydney, we

know what time she lasts are.

And then the father clearly, or a Casey's father, he had a different

remembrance, whether it was 12 o'clock in the afternoon or two o'clock

in the afternoon, whatever it was.

Um, and then

all of a sudden, I think Casey and Kaylee

go missing, I'm not mistaken.

Correct.

Kind of.

So this is already aware.

It just, it gets insane because you're at the timeline starts where Casey

wakes up mid morning, late morning.

So she sees her dad around 12, 12 30, something like that, and is taking

Kaylee to daycare so she can go to work.

So Casey can go to work at universal studios, which we'll talk about later.

So George claims that he sees them leaving the house.

And that is roughly the last time that Kaylee is seen alive.

So this is where the timeline already starts to get messed up.

Casey says she's going to work.

Cell phone pings essentially say that she either one never left the

house or two left the house, but stayed in the neighborhood in 2008.

So cell phone identification, location, isn't exactly where it is

now, but it was still pretty good.

It could hone in pretty specifically where she was.

So if he wasn't at the Anthony home, she was pretty close to it.

And George is saying that she left.

So that.

What we essentially have to go

on.

Did she go, were there any other areas around her home where she

would have gone besides her own home?

Like, would she have gone to a neighbors or did someone live by them?

So there was some sort of relationship with the neighbors.

I don't know for sure that they were close enough, that Casey would have actually

gone next door to visit with them.

They come up later in the story where they say that Casey very strangely approached

them and asked to borrow a shovel, which they thought was very out of character.

Why would Casey need a shovel?

I want you to just use a shovel, but the family had.

There are some weird things.

The family had a history of burying pets in their yard.

So if a pet died, but I don't think a pet died.

I don't have any record that there actually had any pets at that time.

So if she did leave the house, if she did go to a neighbor's or if she just

stayed in her car nearby, it's pretty evident that she didn't go to work what

she did with Tayley to be determined.

But we know that she came back home because there was

activity on the family computer.

So was Kaylee's daycare near their home.

And within that perimeter of the cell phone,

I don't think so, but I don't actually know.

Yeah.

I took it as it was extra closer to universal where,

where she doesn't actually

got it.

Well, that would make perfect sense that she's going there every day or not.

Okay.

So we established that that's the last time anyone say

they saw Caylee alive, um, a variety of things happen over the next month.

Um, but what doesn't happen is nobody sees K uh, and I think that's pretty apparent.

What it sounded to me was that Kaley Casey kept pushing her parents off

because they kept wanting to see, um, their granddaughter and she kept

saying, oh, we're here, we're there.

She went on trips.

We should

establish that Casey had lived at home up until

real recently, and she spent a week with her new boyfriend and then she

moved in with her best friend, Amy.

So she moved Kaylee with her, which yes.

Okay.

Strange kind of, but the strangest part to me is, I guess I'm sure

Casey at the time was 22 years old.

She wanted to move out on her own, whatever.

I don't know what her reasons there were, but to your point about, no one

had seen Kaylee we've talked about this.

I don't understand how for 31 days, no one raised the flag.

Where's this two year old child.

Uh, well, I mean, that's, that's the weird part.

And, and in that month as well, where was Casey?

Because her mom said so on July 15th, next point in the

timeline is where Cindy calls.

Casey's mom calls the police and says, um, my daughter is here.

I want someone to come and arrest her.

She's still in the car.

She's stolen money.

Um, and the car smells like a dead.

Thinking being the police of course, or you know, that inflames

them, they get over there quickly.

Um, and then that's where the conversation starts and this, this pickup of Casey.

So right before that, it sounded like, and so you wonder, okay, Casey, obviously

wasn't there the whole time she had walked in because her father had called

her and said, whatever's happening, you know, gaming her, I'm giving her

an ultimatum and said, you have to come and tell us what's really going on.

And that was when she finally showed up there.

So yes, kind of a little more backstory behind that.

Casey did all sorts of various suspicious things in the 31 days

before the police were called, including stealing her parents' car.

Allowing it to run dead in the middle of the road, it was then towed.

The tow yard reported one reported to the police to report that it had

a very strong odor coming from it.

The police notified the family, the Anthony family, George and Cindy

came and picked up the car and then actually call the police after to your

point about George indicating, Hey, tell us what's going on, but called

the police because she sold the car.

So it wasn't that the car that she always drove.

So what's always strange to me in this case.

And, and I, I I'm like she stole the family car.

She stole the car that she was driving, that they gave her permission to drive.

And this is one of those situations where you've kind of

22 year old girl living at home.

Who's in under complete control of her parents.

Um, you know, and sh they're essentially, you know, when she doesn't act in the

way that they want, you know, they say she's still in the car versus

just using it when things are normal.

So I don't, did they not have another car?

Because it sounded to me like that car was either she was using it or

was assigned to her because then if we're saying, oh, it's the, we found a

dead body in the smell of dead bodies.

Why, why are they not more concerned because it

is their car?

Well, in addition, I would think, I don't know if it was her car or not, but

Kaylee's car seat was in the back seat.

So it was certainly a car that if it wasn't Casey's car that wasn't

assigned to her by the family, it was certainly one that was used

frequently to transport Kaylee.

Right.

So I agree.

It raises some weird questions, but I think if nothing else, it might be what

possibly, why it was reported stolen is because Casey had been moved out.

She wasn't living there and there was evidence of breaking back into the house

and taking a gas can to fill up the car.

So at the very least, it may have been employed just to get Casey's

attention because I would highly suspect it wasn't Casey's car.

It was probably a family car that was then towed.

And the family we're trying to get a hold of Casey and this

was the best way to do it.

Got it.

That's a suspicion.

It seems like a logical option.

Got

it.

Okay.

So on July 15th, Cindy calls the police, the shit hits the fan, essentially.

And they finally got Casey to in the house to a point where she supposed to

answer the question, where have you been?

Where's your, where's our granddaughter and what she finally breaks down and

says, she's been kidnapped and she's fake crying or whatever she does that she

magically tells a lie, which is pretty unbelievable in the scheme of things.

And I think what we'll establish over the conversation is how

great a liar she actually was.

She took people to the nth degree in her lies, um, you know, from having a

job and walking them into the building and then getting to the end of the

corridor and saying, oh, I don't have a job or, oops, I didn't do this.

Or, oh, I'm pregnant.

And I'm seven months pregnant.

Previously to this Virgin.

Exactly.

So let's establish the July 15th.

This is when that moment happens.

Cindy calls the police, uh, I'm not mistaken.

The police come, they have a conversation with Casey, even on the 9 1, 1 call.

Cindy says the nine 11 operator wants to talk to Casey.

Can you, Casey gets on the phone and flatly, you know, just is

able to convey this message.

Is that it?

Yes.

My daughter has been kidnapped.

I don't know.

And you know, even, even in this first conversation, she just sounds really

flippant and annoyed that she even asked to talk to the police about it.

Casey, if you watch interviews with her,

honestly, if you just see pictures of her, she has an altar effect.

It's.

I almost feel like the synapses aren't connecting

and definitely got problems for sure.

And I think even her mom and her dad will readily admit that, you know, and this may

be part of trying to smooth things over.

And I

don't want that to be misconstrued when I say that

as that Casey's unintelligent quick little aside and backstory, Casey

does not have a high school diploma.

She reportedly was a pretty good high school student.

She was expected to graduate.

So weeks before graduation, Casey stopped attending high

school, but never told anyone.

So as graduation was approaching, Cindy started asking Casey,

Hey, where's your and down.

Why haven't I gotten any information from the school?

And Casey lies to her says, oh, there was a mix up.

It's all fine.

Don't worry.

It'll get taken care of the day of graduation just before graduation.

Cindy finds out that Casey hasn't been attending and cannot graduate.

She will not get a diploma.

But that doesn't deter Casey from going to graduation.

No one else in the family knows only Cindy in case he now.

So she goes to graduation, dressed in regular street, clothes walks across

the stage, but doesn't get a diploma.

Well, I think the important part about this and what you

just said is it's is, uh, oh, along the way, here with the lies that Casey tells

even prior to Kaylee, but even through this missing moment, Sydney appears to be

a bit compliant on these conversations and she, she maybe she doesn't know about the

lie and what the lie entails, but when she finds out, she definitely, you know, falls

in line and is supportive of Casey in.

And you can see that in the.

In the, in the recordings of Cindy talking to Casey when she's in

jail and it's this really strange icon that contact that happens.

And it's, you know, Casey saying, oh, come on mom.

Like you're asking me things that you already know the answer to.

And that was what I really felt that she was saying to her, with her,

her facial, uh, you know, her eyes.

I mean, everything was, you know, don't go down this road

because you know what happened?

Getting back to the timeline.

We know that July 15th, that's when the police were called July

16th, Casey is officially charged and leading up to her arrest.

Moralized come out.

She sees oh, official explanation for where Kaylee is.

Is that the day that he went missing, Casey dropped her

off at her regular Manny.

Zanny the near Zenata Fernandez Gonzalez.

So the police said, okay, well, cool.

Take us to Danny's house.

And well, of course Jenner.

So they go to Sandy's house.

Sandy's not there.

Kaylee says, well, I went back to pick her up after work and Sandy

refused to give her to me right there.

Don't you call the police immediately?

You would think so.

This is where I.

Uh, I think that Casey mixes in truth and lies, there may have been

something happened not necessarily with denied because she says that

they don't even know each other.

But I think that this was the impression of something that

may have actually happened.

So it was a night a really does or someone has this kid then, you know, why would

they w why, what would Casey be doing?

So I want to talk a little bit now that we know that Casey's

in jail, she's been arrested.

They started looking at Casey's past.

They started looking at the history of the family, the relationship, obviously

it's got some interesting, um, God components to it, the way that the family

works, George and his life evidently.

I wanted to be, eh, from childhood one or two B a M a character at a theme park.

Uh, he was a policeman for a while.

And then he was actually a private security guard.

After that, I feel like this family is from New York or upstate.

I don't know.

They seem like they seem like they're in Florida.

There are a lot of new Yorkers, a lot of people from the

Northeast moved down to Florida.

So it wouldn't surprise me, but they definitely have an accent.

That's not Florida.

And so maybe that was there.

So you've got George in his life.

Uh, he was married prior to Cindy hanging

out in, back up.

I'm still on this.

He wanted to be a character at a theme

park.

I, you know, at first glance, I think he's an alright looking guy.

You know, he seems like he's got it together, but apparently he's

had some challenges in his life.

Uh, his own father fired him from the family business.

And so he then became a police officer that went fine.

Uh, and then evidently when you're secure, you have a lot of police officers or

officers will transition into security work because as a police officer, you

will automatically get paid a higher rate.

So there there's that.

Um, and he was actually, I forget, or he was a security guard, but

he was an actually, when this happened, he was a security guard

at some private, um, agency.

So you've got George and then you've got Cindy, who's a nurse.

And then what we really never know about very much is the brother Lee, right.

Lee doesn't come up much at all, which is probably good for him.

I mean that, unless he's really not involved, you know, save them the trouble

of having to live a life of Casey's.

Does my sister.

Possibly it's reported that Casey and Cindy were extremely close.

They were best friends, mother and daughter, to be honest, I didn't even

know that she had a brother until late in my research into this that's how

far I feel like he is separated from

this case.

The only thing I really knew about him was that he's not Kaylee's father and there

was that's a conversation we'll have.

Yeah.

I mean, and there was a conversation in the trial about, you know, abuse,

but, um, you know, I think it was just, you know, Casey trying to do anything

she could to get out of the situation

after the Casey takes the officers to

Zanny, the nanny is playing.

No success there.

The officers then say, all right, we'll retrace your steps.

Take us to work universal studios.

And as we mentioned, Casey, hasn't worked there.

She hasn't worked there in years.

As a matter of fact, there's Sonia, you worked at universal

first off.

I don't understand why they let anybody in to let and then let her

walk in to show anybody where the I'm.

She

straight up, walked into an office building,

talk to her way through security.

And trimming the officers to an office where she claims she

worked.

Yeah.

And I think part of this honestly, was that there were officers with her.

That's the key, because if she was Joe blow, you can't get any universal studios.

But I think the, the officers definitely help them, you know, help

guide this a bit and let them in.

And, you know, as what everybody says, you know, the craziness of her

walking, some of these officers in through buildings through many, many

doors, this is so-and-so's office.

Hey, hello to people.

If you know, you know, and then finally getting to the very end of the corridor

and saying, I'm sorry, you're right.

I actually don't work here.

And you know, what's amazing is you have to understand or try.

I can't understand the kind of person who would need someone on a

lie that far down a road, because in my life, my biggest fear is

getting caught in lies, not eating.

And not that you tell lies a lot.

I could never imagine knowing from the beginning that I was telling

a lie that I could ever get caught in that to me is terrifying.

And for her to take it to that degree, it means that she has absolutely no

fear and no conscience and doing that.

Yeah.

I agree.

One thing that always puzzled me though, it was almost like

a game to the police officers.

They knew this whole time, she never worked

at universal.

So back to the Casey and her and her, her magical lie telling, um, which is

obviously indicative of some kind of, you know, criminal minds, Ted, Ted

Bundy, you know, all your famous, you know, criminals, they, you know, they

would, they would spend these, you know, these tales and it was just amazing

that they just sounded so, so very much like they believed in themselves.

And I think that was the way that they could really get others to.

I think the difference there, head

bunny had almost a cult-like following of women.

He was.

Attractive.

He was charming.

He was intelligent.

No, one's going to accuse Casey Anthony of being a member of

no, no, not at all, but as I just, I walked in, you know,

and I was playing the podcast and these guys are about Casey Anthony and

it's sort of a frat party environment.

They're talking about hot.

She is.

And that was brought up in that podcast many times.

And I found it fascinating that that's still an important thing

to talk about whether it's making fun of her or whatever.

But, um, at the end of the day, I think someone thinks she's

attractive and, and eminently pretty

persuasive.

She's very persuasive almost to the point of, I don't know,

sociopathic to a certain extent.

And I think that speaks back to the flat aspect that was referencing

and her attractiveness, I think ultimately that might have played a

factor in the result of the trial.

Oh,

absolutely.

Um, I mean, no doubt.

I, you know, when you watch her in the, in the courtroom, she definitely is different

than all the pictures and the pictures where she's partying and she's doing

her hot bod contest with her boyfriend DJ anonymous, which is the dumbest name

I've ever heard, because why do you want to be anonymous if you're a DJ?

Um, and his friend Clint, uh, from long island who, uh, essentially

we're probably, uh, you know, I think driving some of this.

Her personality had changed over time.

As she had met these guys, evidently she was a strong, she

believes strongly in marijuana.

She didn't actually smoke.

She, you know, would chastise her friends were smoking pot.

And then all of a sudden, when she started hanging out with whatever,

Joey, something, Joey, whatever it Clint, you know, she wanted him to start

partying and she wanted to start, you know, living, living the more fun life.

And that was probably right around the time where Kaylee had, you know, it wasn't

in the picture because it's easier to live that kind of life without a child.

We know the lies.

We know the change in personality.

We know the police know that she's full of it,

which must've been so fun for them.

It was like a game seriously.

Now we're now Casey's in a corner.

She's arrested.

She hires an attorney, Jose.

She has her first name court, of course, pleads not guilty at this point.

Kelly's only missing.

So she's initially charged with neglect.

The child endangerment, her bond is set at $500,000.

Then the judge ultimately decides to ban release to all media.

As you can imagine, hot and girl in Florida, the media is all over it.

Missing little adorable blonde hair toddler, the heart

of America at this point.

So the jerk says no one's allowed in which I think maybe goes against Casey.

I think Casey, the attention.

Oh, absolutely.

By the way, I just want to make sure that we call out that the first judge was

actually taken off the case, talking to a blogger judge because, you know, God

forbid somebody dogs in the media, I, you know, let's not talk to the media at all.

So I am sure that that sort of propel this into a non-media or

attempting to be non-media plus how are they ever going to find a jury?

Um, and I think ultimately what they did is they brought a jury in, since the

media was blocked from courtroom proceedings.

I don't know how they found out, but it was leaked to the media,

probably through her attorney, maybe through someone else attached to

the case, maybe her family, that her defense was going to be Haley drum.

So at this point, Casey has not been charged with murder.

They don't even know that she's dead, but there's all of a sudden speculation out

there that she drown in the family pool.

Why would there be speculation?

Why would that have gotten out if she's not even dead yet?

Yeah, well, yeah.

I mean, exactly.

So who would have, who would, he would be compelled to meet that kind of thing

who would benefit from that information?

That's really, I mean, ultimately Casey cause that's going to be her defense

so likely it would have been a defense theory, but you know, I think lots of

people were talking about the pool and the ladder and how, you know, those

things happen all the time in Florida.

It's hot Casey and the dad were alone at the house together with

Kaylee and that he was the last one.

That's our, I'm not surprised because I think they were

jumping to all kinds of things.

And I, if I'm not mistaken that area in the back where they did find,

so eventually they find Kaylee's body, I think six months in, right?

Yeah.

After multiple calls to the police though, by a meter reader

who reported finding any suspicious bag off to the side of the road.

So it took three phone calls for someone to actually come out and investigate.

This two particular things are really suspicious about this one.

We know EquiSearch, which is a nationwide.

Certain volunteer search organization who dedicates people to looking for missing,

missing children, searched the area high and low, but as Salish your from Florida,

you know, that it turns into swamp land.

The searches started around hurricane season, tropical storm season.

So the area around the Anthony home was underwater.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

It would have been really swampy in that heat.

And in that kind of the heat coupled with the, the, just the vast amount of water in

Florida, I don't know if you've ever been, but when you fly in, it looks more like

there's just little speckles of land in the middle of all these masses of water.

So it doesn't take much.

I mean, you're talking about everywhere along every side of the road, you've

got these, you know, probably retention ponds and these little, like two or three

inch puddles of water, but it adds up, but water, you know, standing over an

area over time is definitely going to increase the decomposition of a body.

Here's a question for, we can establish, we can agree.

Water probably covered that area.

A quarter mile from Nina Anthony home, a body was found a quarter

mile from the Anthony home.

How.

That's like across the street practically.

Oh, is that, how, how did it take

so long?

Well, also, so even if you've got the body in the area where that was underwater, at

one point, it would, I would assume that if you've got dogs in the area tracking,

they would have hit somewhere along the path from the house to that area and it

leaked, and then they would've stopped.

They would have stopped at the water's edge, whatever that water's edge

is, they would've stopped at it.

But nowhere around the house, did they really hit on anything with the exception

of two places they hit, they hit in the house and by the back of the car, by

the trunk of the car for cadaver, they also, the first time the dogs went out,

also hit in the backyard for a cadaver.

When they went back to the house, they did not find they did not have that same hit.

There's some idea that it was that that cadaver was beyond that car again.

I mean, what I don't understand, and also it seems really weird.

Is that, that body and who knows how long that would, that timeframe would

have been because Kate, the, the girl little girl would have had to decompose.

So how long she must've been in the car the whole time and someone is established

that she died on the 16th, but I don't know if that's actually the case.

Did she actually die on the 16th or was she kept alive for a period of time?

If you only have the bones, I'm not sure how you know that.

Yeah.

I don't

know, obviously, and we know she was missing, but that's why

for so long, Casey was only charged with.

Yeah, because we didn't know if he actually had a

body because she could have been running around Zanny the nanny.

Exactly.

It's.

Hmm.

And when you talk about the car, so one of the prosecutions lightening, your

odds that they thought would really be the silver bullet to get Casey.

Is that there was significant evidence of a decomposing body in the back of the,

on the back of the car.

I think they establish that through the trunk, some

gas.

Right?

So, so there was essentially like a scene in the carpet of

the back of the car in the trunk.

There was gas that was collected as he said, right.

Probably most telling a wall, multiple people report.

A horrible smell that is akin to, or exactly that of a decomposing body.

Right.

And it started really when the car was towed, someone reported that there was

an odor, the person didn't, the tow yard didn't know that it was decomposing body,

but reported the odor to begin with.

Sure.

And then that's when they said they found garbage in the back of the car

and for duke Creek, Casey credited.

If, if that, if she did put that body in the car, if she killed Kaylee and

she put that body in the car and that body decompose for her to have the

forethought to then take the body out, put it somewhere wherever, and

then he'd be back at Casey credit.

Well, she must've thought about this cause she put the garbage in

there to cover up the decomp smell.

You know, you're like, well, cause I waiver here.

I say, she's an idiot.

Oh, I can't believe she, excuse again, I have the fear of being caught in a lie.

So I'm like kind of, you know, to be so bold and bring.

Um, and then to spend these lies to the point where she exhausts

everyone, but she does put some thought into some of this because

she's thoughtful about the garbage.

She must've been, she that wasn't coincidentally, she put it in there

because you want, wanted to cover up the smell if that was the case.

I think the other thing that in the back of the trunk of

the car that I found the most.

Was it, they found hair and that hair had, what's called a death band on it.

And that death bin is only on hair that is attached to a decomposing body.

It's the law, there's a black line there.

And so they found Kaley's hair because it was that it was the mother

line where they did the analysis.

It could only be in the mother line.

So that haircut have only come from Casey or Cindy or Kaylee.

And it was untreated, which means that, so it had to have been Kaylee's.

So I think it was someone I

mentioned real quick, talking about giving credit

where credit's due to Casey and she planted the seeds previously by

reporting to her dad, or maybe it was.

That her car smelled like she hit a dead animal or there was a

dead animal in there.

Well, yes, exactly.

She told her dad to, to, I don't know why too, because maybe one was a little

li two squirrels caught up in her engine and they got, you know, when she started

the car, they got ground up in there.

That's freaking disgusting.

Okay.

Thank you.

I don't look at me about Prius cause I love my Prius and

there's no reverse world that entered by the way, just for the best thing.

That's freaking awful.

But, uh, that's what Casey told her dad was when he asked her.

Cause he finally, you know, getting her to that house and

like tell us what is going on.

And that was her.

Explain the decomposition, smell to squirrel is caught up on my engine

and must've gotten wrapped up in.

You know, hamburger, meat gross.

She told her friend Gonzalez not Gonzales, something to Dallas.

She told one of her friends that she had thought she had hit a squirrel.

So I don't even know why she was compelled to tell him to change the story.

If she told her dad one story about two girls and the engine.

And why didn't you just tell her friend it's so many lines.

I dunno.

That's exactly

right.

You see that speaks to Casey is coming, but not super

Selligent.

He's not because it's so much easier just to remember one story.

Like, I mean, I, again, I'm mortified being caught in a lie,

you know, so I just don't ever lie.

It's, you know, I wish I was good at it because I'd probably wouldn't

hurt my mom's feelings so often.

But you know, at the end of the day, it's a lot of work to remember

lies.

Poor mom.

I know.

Well, I try to be complimentary all the time to everybody, you know, Hey,

come on.

All right.

So back to the car, back to the hair, back to the calm, back to all these

stories shooting as the police go and, you know, continue to talk to the

family by the way, this poor family.

Do you watch the video of these, you know, Cindy and outside their house being

off of, you know, the media, because they're just I'm word choice there.

Yeah.

It was really awful.

You know, they were getting these people, you know, and they were getting

them back and they're wearing Shirley.

Yes, it was really awful.

And the media is either being supportive or unsupportive, but

either way, they're getting all this attention that they don't want.

They're wearing a t-shirt with

Kaylee on it.

The court of public opinion made their decision.

Well, before this went to trial as with many high profile

cases, it's the norm these days,

awful.

That has nothing real.

I mean, at the end of the day, you know, sure.

Casey's in jail, go to the courthouse or go to the gym protest, but these

poor, the family, you know, I don't know how you, you get through that.

And also in this moment are grieving for your granddaughter

that your daughter likely killed.

Yeah.

I mean, that's really, you know, and I think I want to back up a bit, cause I

think we, we can talk a little bit about Sidney and Casey and their relationship.

And now I feel, I feel really strongly that Cindy knows

something more than she's saying.

I think that she realized after a certain point, I don't think that there was a

point where Casey could have told her the truth, but I think she suggested to her,

um, cause there wasn't

much time where she came home and they were talking

about it and then she went to jail.

So anything that her jail time would have been recorded.

But I think that Cindy tinny in Casey's relationship, they were best friends.

Like you said, Cindy knew about her not graduating.

Oh wait, let me just remind everybody.

Cindy did not tell anybody else in the family, she don't lie to the family.

She kept that light going and.

This is exactly the same thing that happened when they

found out Katie was pregnant.

Right.

They found that case.

He was pregnant because she told at first she said, oh,

you're getting a little chubby.

Oh, no problem.

Well, I couldn't be pregnant.

I'm a Virgin.

Yeah.

Okay.

Turns out to see immaculate conception.

Absolutely.

Seven months in.

Somebody else in the family mentioned that Casey looks pregnant and Sidney

now is blowing it off and Casey too, and she's seven months pregnant.

And when you're that little under seven months pregnant, I mean, sure.

You may look like, you know, you're not really, everybody carries babies

differently, but I can't imagine.

And then what happens in two months when the baby comes out, like

you still got a reality to this happening, this is not going away.

And I kind of feel like that's the way Sydney and Casey Casey approach.

Everything is like, you know, you just keep pushing it off.

It will go away.

You know?

And in this case, it's kind of what happened because you know, her road

to freedom because she was acquitted.

I mean, she, she pushed through it somehow or another, every day she

pushed through it and she created more lies, but it, it happened for her.

It's kind of amazing to me, you know, Sydney.

These realities and then finding out after the fact must've been really

hurtful for the family, and then they must not have trusted them.

That parlays perfectly into where you and I

diverge a little bit on this.

I have a lot of theories.

I wrote several down.

Then I'll talk about later because I don't really know what happened, but

one of my theories is that Cindy knew, I don't think Cindy was involved in the

death of Katie, but I think she knew was she involved in the coverup or the

barrier maybe, but Cindy only called 9 1 1 to report Kaylee missing after

Casey told her brother wheat let's think about this 31 days, the grandparents

don't see their granddaughter.

They are a strange, somewhat from.

Casey comes over.

They call the police to report Casey for stealing the car.

Kaylee is not with Casey.

So in my conspiracy theory, if Cindy and Casey knew what happened to Kaylee, it

was still contained with the two of them.

Then Casey, essentially let it slip to leave that she doesn't

know where her daughter is now.

The lids off

now, now

him.

She can't have to need to hold it in because

now it's out there.

True.

I just, I can't, I don't understand how somebody can you live.

They pretty much lived or up until right before or the, I guess the last

time they saw them was in June and then they moved out right after that.

So they, she has been skirting them, but the night

before she went missing, Kaylee and Casey

stayed with the Anthony's.

Got it.

By the way, let's back up a moment and talk about how Casey

was going to afford an apartment.

She really didn't have a job.

And I think this is one of my biggest hiccups in this whole thing is

how is she going to move anywhere?

Does she have a car because she doesn't have any money.

If she has money, how was she getting it?

It sounded to me like she had gone into the Anthony's house

a couple of times it was stolen money, but what else is she doing?

Well, she exists with no money.

No, you're

right.

You can't.

But the first week that she moved out, she was staying with her boyfriend.

Then she moved in with her.

Uh, whether or not there was some sort of a rent agreement.

She was going to say rent free until she got a job.

No idea.

Or Casey always has a backup plan.

She was later arrested after she was released on bail, which is strange because

with a half million dollar bond, some random person came up and paid for it.

But after she was released from jail for the endangerment of Kaylee, she was

rearrested for stealing more than $1,400.

And writing fraudulent checks from her friend, Amy, who she was living with.

Okay.

So her way to pay Amy was to take any of his

money and pay her back with it.

Casey's the Dick Dick move, bro.

Let's go back a moment.

God, Casey, out of jail.

How has that hospital who paid the bond?

Is that even like, I am like, I think there's something much

deeper to Casey than we're all thinking about because she's lying.

She's able to do this, you know, all these.

I mean, is she involved in like prostitution?

Is she involved in like drugs?

Well,

very fair question.

So a bail bondsman named Berliner Pedea paved Casey's half a million dollar bail.

I don't, I don't get it right.

Exactly.

I don't know why I end

up getting

a bail bondsman or bounty hunter.

He was a male boss or whether I don't really know either, but

from what I've heard, thank you.

Wikipedia and investigation discovery.

She wasn't

half a million dollars and he is not the only person that posted

bond because he posted on, she was released, fitted with an ankle monitor.

She was rearrested for stealing the money from her roommate.

Her parents came up with an additional 500,000.

Her parents in Florida came up with an additional $500,000.

Her

parents retired police officer turned

security guard who wanted to

be a theme

park character, and her nurse that you can

is calling to be goofy.

And her nurse

mom,

a half a million dollars, they came up with to pay.

How does that happen?

It doesn't, it just doesn't.

I mean, today we're fucking driving a sunburn.

If you had a half, a million dollars, you wouldn't be

driving a sunburn know I'll talk later about how she

picked her up at certain speeds.

Well,

I think that's all wrapped up in it is I

think she would do anything.

And I think she probably was first off.

We know she was spending eight hours a day, five days a week for

two freaking years saying that she was working at universal.

Where was she going?

What was she.

At the

very least find another job.

What do you do?

How boring is that?

You don't have any money.

She was creating emails with her employees that universal

leaving them around the house that is so much work to keep that lag, going to

get up every morning and get dressed.

It's just easier

to work a real job.

Well, you have money unless you're already getting money.

Yes.

So that's what I'm, you know, this is a young girl.

She's 22, whatever she thinks she's hot

in Orlando.

Bahar.

She's hot.

She's Orlando.

Yeah.

She's an Orlando eight, you know, she's an ally and that's okay.

But you know, in good for her, that's great.

She was in the right place.

Um, but I just, I can't, I mean, maybe they took a mortgage out on

their house, but their house was not worth half a million dollars either.

No, I mean, there, there are houses far and few between not for the cop and the.

So with the Sunbird, it just doesn't make a ton of sense, you know, unless these

people were going to use her, if they were going to use her for something, or

she knew someone, something was going on, I think these are where things

worth the things that we should think about, because I just don't understand

how she was going to move anywhere, unless she just really had no idea.

I mean, she never did think about the end game because that's how our lives work.

You know, she just thought she'd lie our way until she can just walk away from it.

I think that's a trait of a narcissist.

Right.

It's just, you know, definitely disregard, you know, and it, and she'll

get through it because she's heard it.

She's amazing.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

I mean,

uh, in my opinion speaks to also the family

is protecting Casey mother.

Nothing knew anything.

They still went out of their way to do everything they could to protect Casey.

And that speaks to how she felt she was on top of.

Oh, well, absolutely.

I mean, she, I guess she had a history of, they had a really weird family dynamic.

Cindy was a definitely the, you know, the queen of the house too,

or just kind of run around, just agreeing with Cindy, which is fine.

I don't mind that relationship at all though, who really

ruled the house was Casey.

Um, you know, if anything happened, Casey would come in,

they would have a conversation.

It wouldn't take much to get her set her off.

She would get excited about something and you know, where

are you accusing me of this?

I mean, I think they got excited about the gas cans by the way.

Oh yeah.

So I think we should talk about the Gaskins later, but I just wanna

remind everybody on the gas cans was duct tape and that is exactly

the same duct tape that was found on

or near Caylee's body.

Let's actually talk about the gas can now, because that's the part that

I can't, I don't understand a big deal was made about the gas cake.

She broke into the house and stole a gas can, which to me.

What's the big deal with that.

We'll talk about the duct tape that may or may not tie in

later, but what was the big deal?

So she took a

gas cannon.

I think this is the parents trying to maintain control over her.

And it had probably had a lot to do with Kaylee because they

wanted to see their granddaughter.

And they were probably worried about her in, you know, Casey's care because

they know their daughter, you know, they would try to, they would use anything

they could to try to regain control.

So if it's a stupid as well, the only thing she did was take the

gas can, and that's all I can do.

But I think that they were, you know, even with the car, you know, she was

using the car and then once they, you know, she pissed them off and

they're like, well, the car was stolen.

So I think it was really, you know, and she, I don't know if she moved

out because she wanted to move out or because her, they wanted her to move

out because it was one conversation I had heard where she had told her friend

that her mom was making her move.

But I really don't believe that because I don't think the mom would have

wanted that little girl to go anywhere.

I agree.

I disagree.

I think Keeley became their world.

And when you have a two-year-old toddler,

it usually does.

Absolutely.

I agree with you then maybe they want to give you see to move out.

But I don't think Casey would want to move out without the little

girl, because that was her control.

Yes or no.

I mean, well,

definitely were control over her parents and that was

probably how they were getting money.

Yeah.

Probably wanted a job.

So

she must've somebody paid

for daycare.

We talked about everything leading up to the case.

We ready to talk about the trial

a year.

Think so.

You want to cover a little more.

I think that's, you know, the trial sort of speaks for

itself, but I feel like that we've, we've already kind of hit the pinnacle.

Well, the top of this was the lies, finding the child, George, the

guy who found the child and then even suggesting that it was him,

which I really don't agree with.

We talked about the proximity of the child being found to the house.

You can talk about the evidence with the body.

I think we should.

Can we, if we can talk about that for a second, I think

that's where, yeah, so that's essentially what I

mean is we've heard all these things about everything that led up to it,

and we can talk about the evidence that's presented and some of the

inflammatory things that are brought up

at the trial.

Yes.

So let's talk a little bit more about the body.

And when they found the body six months into this, they found the body, the

little Kaley's body she was in found, like you said, a quarter of a mile from

their house and an area by the road.

Florida's pretty much underwater anyway.

So it doesn't take much or under sea level, but it doesn't take

much for the water to settle.

So I'm not surprised that they made not have found this sooner, but I find it

hard to believe that somebody somewhere.

And for this guy to call twice and nobody doing anything was kind of crazy.

You know, he readily admits that he took a stick and stuck it into the skull

and lifted it up to see what it was.

And, um, I'm assuming that there was probably some hair attached to

that skull or some hair matting.

That's what normally happens.

Somebody I listen to a podcast or I've watched an interview with the foreman

and he talked about how the pictures that they saw were so grizzly, but I was

having a hard time with that because I thought we just found a bag of bones.

So, yeah.

Okay.

Let's discuss that bag of bones.

I'm a little unclear on that also because the first two times that

the meter reader called the police, he reported seeing this bag that he

thought maybe there was a body and when,

how am I going to go out the first time

when there's a body in a bag?

I mean, Greg.

They were probably getting tips up the wazoo at this time, going

everywhere, Caylee Anthony sightings.

So you have to be strategic in the ones you want to look at, but a

quarter mile from the Anthony home, I would think that's when they

were put at the top of your list.

So here's my theory.

He reported seeing this bag went underwater, went through the winter

water, succeeded the bag opened up.

So when he came back, the third time the bag was open and he could see into

it that there was truly a dead body.

Like he suspected all along and it wasn't just in a bag.

It was, she was wrapped in a sheet or some sort of cover

Winnie the Pooh blanket and then placed into a bag.

So it's also possible animals got to the bag and opened it up.

That's how he would have been able to, as he said, And touch the

school with a stick and manipulate the crime scene, ultimately.

And I think it was two bags.

I don't

think it was just one.

There was the white laundry bag.

That's clearly from the Anthony's house, establish that.

And then I either

that bad was inside of a black garbage bag or the

reverse, but I'm assuming if the white

would have been, I would have been on the outside, it

would have been a lot easier to see.

I think I was the black bag is on the outside, but canvas inside,

which honest to God that bag opening up that black garbage bag.

It must've been a mess in there.

I mean, you've got water and heat, the decomposition, I mean, you've

got probably a little mat of hair.

Um, something was offensive enough to where it

freaked the jury out because a lot of them talk about hope, how

bad those pictures were.

Um, and it was a child.

And obviously everybody's really sensitive to that

because no matter what, you've got a little bag of child here

and point of clarity, um, objective.

In the courtroom right now.

Uh, just want to make sure we're clear on this.

I want to retract the previous statement.

I said the meter reader called three times.

It wasn't until the fourth time that he called and then they

actually came out no more times.

Why are you kidding me?

You're the one from Florida.

You tell me it's not

it's not like you're washed up on the shore.

I mean, I know you can see a lot, but picking a skull up out sick.

I don't know if, I mean, I don't know if he did that the first

or the fourth

time, but any of those times, like I would have

been screaming, bloody murder, like get your ass out of here.

What

possessed someone though to say, I think that's a skull.

Let me lift it.

Uh,

I would do that.

I love

and live to see him on the wall.

I don't want to

child school.

Do you mean like a headway on a wall?

Is that looking at herd of like a hunter?

It's somebody I don't

full skeleton, not a doctor's skeleton.

This is clearly small.

And there it's small.

It's not an animal.

I would probably still actually now I retract that when I was younger, I would

definitely want to talk, but maybe not now, because I would definitely have

respect for a crime scene because clearly human stuff around it, you can see imag,

which means it's probably in or near it.

Right.

And then you may see the duct tape that was apparent.

You know, that, I think what I think what helps me understand the timeline

a little also is that duct tape and the condition of the bones, because

you know what they say is she must've done it almost immediately after she

was missing, because it would have taken that long for everything there to

decompose, like, but I still don't know if they can nail it down to an exact day.

And that's hard because when you try to establish alibis, if it happens.

Within a 72 hour range.

It's hard to establish some of these alibis through that whole time period.

So, you know, again, the jurors were really from that, the reason

that they couldn't convict her is because they just didn't feel like

no spoiler alert so many years after.

And they say, I know they say that, uh, Jon snow died.

That's

more recent.

So upset.

A lot of people.

I know I will never watch game of Thrones again, by the day, I'm not

going to go back and rewatch the show go from being the most popular show

of all time to one of the most hated

because they ruined the end ruin.

Did I really?

We will get it.

oh, it was a beautiful show.

I mean, seriously,

we digress back to the case,

you know, we've got Casey in jail now we've

got the body so we can hear.

We started talking about the duct tape.

I know this is a future for you, and it was a huge sticking

point for the prosecution.

So I'm going to let you own this because I had actually spoke a few holes in

here, at least I think again, but I know it was a really big deal for you.

It is because, well, let's just say let's just

establish that, that right.

If somebody is saying, oh, well we don't know how she was killed.

I'm not sure how this couldn't be considered a homicide.

If you look at the duct tape being honored around her

face.

So hopefully by the way, the prosecution's main argument as to how Kaley was

murdered is that she was suffocated with duct tape over her nose or mouth for,

I think that that is one of the things that the jury

really had a hard time with because that I think was a bit farfetched.

I think that they had, I don't think you Suffolk it's moon with duct tape.

I think that you put that on to shut them up.

Okay.

I never saw that.

She said that I can do it with duct tape, but that was a

by-product of something else.

I think that the Xanax.

It was whatever it was.

Um, you know, I do think that she was probably given something and

she probably, but then why would you have duct tape it off if you put, if

she, if she died from you giving her something, what she wouldn't be, what,

what's the point of the duck?

So the body's found there's duct tape around her jaw or on

her

jaw holding it on pretty much to her

skull, but I don't think it was

over at the time.

It wasn't actually over for nose and mouth or where her

nose and mouth is in her school.

I think it was small part of it was, but the

majority was stuff up in her hair.

Oh, wait, the hair works, I guess when you die like that in an outside situation.

Cause I listened to the body farm bypass and it's amazing is

that you've got a skull rolling on the ground in whatever way.

And the heroine, a decomposable fall this back kind of just land around it.

And it makes like a horseshoe around the head.

It's like a hair mat.

Okay.

So that's where you could even, it's all, you know, cause it had been there for

so long in that humidity, in that heat, you know, it had all just fallen back.

So that's the assumption, but they say that that would have

fit over her mouth and her nose.

But you know, you don't know if that I think again, I don't think

that duct tape was the weapon.

I think that duct tape was, um, something to try to get,

keep the little girl

quiet.

Okay.

And that's the only reason, honestly.

And here's the weird part about this duct tape

by the way.

That

duct tape is not very common.

The kind of duct

tape that was used, they found it in the Anthony's home.

They found it

on the signs, the freaking flyers that they put

up well around the neighborhood.

Was that exactly that tape?

Like, are you kidding?

Look what you use the murder weapon.

Agree.

Suffocated her to put the signs up, trying

to find her, like it's just really, really gross in a year.

Okay.

So you've got the duct tape.

So that's my theory about the duct tape.

I don't think it was used for suffocation.

I can do is used for keeping her quiet, but then if she was already dead, why

would they need to keep her quiet?

If you think it's to help keep her quiet.

And I don't think you actually might be honest something because that

might play into one of the other theories is that there were traces of

chloroform found in the car chloroform.

I don't think a common thing to keep around the house.

It's

not.

And they found searches on the computer that she had looked up how

to chloroform, how to make chloroform

also how to suffocate a child and get away with it.

I'm not saying that verbatim, but that's just what it was.

She legitimately search for that.

She's such an idiot, like why you don't need to look that up?

What is the word?

Bull.

Okay.

We're jumping backwards a little bit.

Now.

She erased her internet searches.

The day that Kaylee went missing the family's computer internet.

How would she know how to do that?

She doesn't know how to do that.

Come

on.

She had two years of doing nothing.

She probably played around on the computer.

She had a MySpace page in 2008.

No one was on and

I don't know.

Maybe she didn't know how, so then how do they find those searches,

forensic, whatever.

So

she raised it and then they actually don't deeper.

Exactly.

And that's the part that's weird to me because that's one of those

moments where simply wait until like, you know, oh, I was actually looking

for chlorophyll from the dogs and it came up with chloroform and I'm

like, oh my God, lady, did you just

take credit for that stupid?

I actually stand corrected the night.

It wasn't erased.

The day that Kaylee went missing, it wasn't a risk.

The day that Kaylee was reported.

A month later.

Uh, but who day?

Right?

Because Casey

didn't live with live at the home.

That would have been Cindy and uh, oh, would she, as a grown ass woman have

to look up how to smother a child.

She's not looking that up, Cindy.

Yeah.

She's snow.

And she's erasing it for her.

And for Casey.

Yes.

You think Sidney knew how to figure out what the history

would be if Casey erased it?

Like, what we're saying is Cindy erased it Sydney, or I don't know

if Cindy would know how to do that.

Would

she?

What about George?

Me, but

I don't think George likes Casey.

She, I mean, she really, but you know, what was weird about her?

They, they appear to have a good relationship Jordan, when she's there

at the jail and they're talking to her and she's like, you know, the one

thing I miss most was talking to you and I'm like, man, you're talking about

later, like 10 minutes later, when you're accusing him of like molesting

you, what, what happened there?

You know, he's your best friend right here.

And then, you know, if it serves your purpose, you can say that he molested you.

It's really, really weird.

And I think that was the last straw for George is he's like, I

have been so good to you and so tolerant, and this is how you treat

me.

Yeah.

I think that's probably a good spot for us to call it for Casey Anthony.

We really dug deep into what the evidence was and all of the things

that led up to the trial, including some of the things with the trial.

I think for the next episode, we'll probably dive into really what our

theories are and what some of the theories of the prosecution and what

the defense ended up going with.

Exactly.

So stay tuned, parlor, Scarlet podcasters.

All right.

Thanks for joining us a special shout out to John McGrew for our theme song

and Juan Mesa Leone for our artwork.

Be sure to follow us on twitter@scarletpodcastandshootusanemailatscarletmurderpodcastsatgmail.com.