The Casey Anthony trial for the death of 2-year old Caylee Anthony captivated the nation from 2008 to 2011. An early contender for the trial of the century, Scarlet hosts Sonia Meza-Leon and Brittney Sherman take a deep dive into the history, the lies, and the deception that made Casey the prime murder suspect of her own daughter from the start. Listen to episode 1 of the new True Crime Podcast, Scarlet!

Sources: Casey Anthony, an American Murder Mystery, Marcia Clark Investigates podcast, CourtTV, Wikipedia

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

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The statements made in this podcast are meant to be taken

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strictly as opinion and not as statements of fact or evidence in the case as

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discussed this episode of Scarlet contains graphic details about decomposing

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bodies and violence against children.

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Listener discretion is advised.

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Hey podcasters

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welcome to the new true crime podcast.

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Scarlet.

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So today Bernice Sherman and Sonia, Emilio are talking

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about the case of the Anthony saga.

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There's

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been so much covered about this.

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Well, it's what 10, 11 years old, 2008 is when it originally

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happens when Kaylee went missing,

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it feels like it was so much earlier than that.

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I feel like this was like a 1990 story that happened, but you're right.

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It wasn't actually that long ago that would've put me just moving to wait.

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Now I would've been eight.

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No, that was when I moved to LA.

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I would have been here in LA for 10 years, which is why I was not paying

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attention other than the fact that it happened in Orlando, which is

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my hometown and, um, and all sorts of crazy shit happens in Orlando.

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In Florida.

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There's definitely an underbelly to Orlando college life there.

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You know, and that's where UCF is.

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That's where UCF is.

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It's bigger, bigger school now.

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And I went there with a much smaller, I mean, everything was like dirt,

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parking, lots, dirt, everything.

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It was awful.

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Um, it was a small school, but now, I mean, you know, obviously they're

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doing well with their football team, but it's still the same champions.

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Yeah.

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I don't know what it is about the south.

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And just being in a place where it's hot in general, people get really

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sweaty and then they start doing a lot of drugs and they started drinking

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and it just all goes downhill.

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From there, you see so many weird things happen.

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I don't know what

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it is.

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The he and come that will mess with people.

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I mean, dehydration does crazy things to people.

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I don't want to think.

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I don't think Casey Anthony though.

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I don't think what happened to her is a result of the drugs

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and alcohol and the party.

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I think she's telling you waiting.

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I think that this was if not completely planned out and of course we'll get

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to all the theories and everything.

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This wasn't a, I don't think this was a.

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Drunken mistake.

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I don't

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think this was a whim that happened.

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I agree.

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I, well, I don't, I not necessarily a whim being, it was unplanned,

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but I don't, I'm not even sure if it wasn't just an accident.

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Um, but there are so many weird, weird pieces to this and, and all you can

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think of is if it was, if she wasn't guilty, why did she lie about it?

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You know, I mean, the lies

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so many lives and bursts so well, and

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they never stopped well, if you had an accident, which is what

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it appears may have happened, one of the theories anyway, you know, what's wrong

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just saying it was an accident, unless you were doing something in the moment

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that the accident happened, that you could get in trouble for which, you know, that

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kind of was for emo, you know, what is the point in lying and just saying she

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drowned well, yeah, obviously that is kind

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of her biggest defense theory.

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Her family's defense more or less.

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Uh, but, okay, so, so let's back up a little.

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This was obviously huge news that happened in 2008, went to trial.

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It really officially in 2011, uh, kindly went missing and

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it was, it was everywhere.

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It was the trial of the century, 15 years after OJ.

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So pretty fast how we had two of those and then 15 years, uh, I mean, I absolutely

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hated this, but I remember it so vivid.

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She had the name all around.

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Thanks, Nancy.

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Grease up the top mom.

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Like that was just her.

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She called the top mom.

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I don't remember.

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I don't know because Nancy, grace came up with it and Nancy, grace loves

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headlines.

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She led us to, yeah, she's young a lot.

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And that was most of what I heard about it.

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My mom was, I did not remember this until just recently when I talked to her

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about it, but she said she watched this.

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Um, my mom's 85 now and

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she watched this case.

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Um, every minute of it, she said, and it was on the local cable network.

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So she got up and everyday she watched the whole

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trial and, um, you know, it was just, it was really close to home

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because I have people who are close to it.

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And I knew exactly the areas where they were talking about where they live,

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where they found the child's body.

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Um, it was really close to home.

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And, um, I think that's where we back up and we kind of go back to the beginning at

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least of how this first came to fruition.

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So we've got our timeline, June 15th, 2008.

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Um, Caylee Anthony was last seen with her great-grandfather and an assistant.

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Apparently that is the last day that anyone saw Kaley

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alive outside of the immediate

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family, her Kaylee's mom.

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Casey, of course.

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And Casey's grandparents or Casey's parents.

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Keely's grandparents saw her alive the next morning or, sorry.

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So on the 16th.

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Okay.

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On June 6th, especially the date that she went and got it.

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And I think there's a little distraught you're right.

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And there's a little discrepancy there on when I get Sydney, we

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know what time she lasts are.

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And then the father clearly, or a Casey's father, he had a different

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remembrance, whether it was 12 o'clock in the afternoon or two o'clock

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in the afternoon, whatever it was.

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Um, and then

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all of a sudden, I think Casey and Kaylee

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go missing, I'm not mistaken.

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Correct.

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Kind of.

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So this is already aware.

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It just, it gets insane because you're at the timeline starts where Casey

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wakes up mid morning, late morning.

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So she sees her dad around 12, 12 30, something like that, and is taking

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Kaylee to daycare so she can go to work.

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So Casey can go to work at universal studios, which we'll talk about later.

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So George claims that he sees them leaving the house.

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And that is roughly the last time that Kaylee is seen alive.

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So this is where the timeline already starts to get messed up.

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Casey says she's going to work.

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Cell phone pings essentially say that she either one never left the

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house or two left the house, but stayed in the neighborhood in 2008.

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So cell phone identification, location, isn't exactly where it is

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now, but it was still pretty good.

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It could hone in pretty specifically where she was.

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So if he wasn't at the Anthony home, she was pretty close to it.

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And George is saying that she left.

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So that.

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What we essentially have to go

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on.

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Did she go, were there any other areas around her home where she

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would have gone besides her own home?

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Like, would she have gone to a neighbors or did someone live by them?

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So there was some sort of relationship with the neighbors.

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I don't know for sure that they were close enough, that Casey would have actually

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gone next door to visit with them.

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They come up later in the story where they say that Casey very strangely approached

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them and asked to borrow a shovel, which they thought was very out of character.

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Why would Casey need a shovel?

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I want you to just use a shovel, but the family had.

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There are some weird things.

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The family had a history of burying pets in their yard.

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So if a pet died, but I don't think a pet died.

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I don't have any record that there actually had any pets at that time.

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So if she did leave the house, if she did go to a neighbor's or if she just

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stayed in her car nearby, it's pretty evident that she didn't go to work what

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she did with Tayley to be determined.

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But we know that she came back home because there was

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activity on the family computer.

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So was Kaylee's daycare near their home.

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And within that perimeter of the cell phone,

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I don't think so, but I don't actually know.

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Yeah.

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I took it as it was extra closer to universal where,

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where she doesn't actually

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got it.

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Well, that would make perfect sense that she's going there every day or not.

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Okay.

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So we established that that's the last time anyone say

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they saw Caylee alive, um, a variety of things happen over the next month.

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Um, but what doesn't happen is nobody sees K uh, and I think that's pretty apparent.

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What it sounded to me was that Kaley Casey kept pushing her parents off

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because they kept wanting to see, um, their granddaughter and she kept

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saying, oh, we're here, we're there.

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She went on trips.

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We should

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establish that Casey had lived at home up until

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real recently, and she spent a week with her new boyfriend and then she

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moved in with her best friend, Amy.

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So she moved Kaylee with her, which yes.

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Okay.

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Strange kind of, but the strangest part to me is, I guess I'm sure

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Casey at the time was 22 years old.

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She wanted to move out on her own, whatever.

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I don't know what her reasons there were, but to your point about, no one

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had seen Kaylee we've talked about this.

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I don't understand how for 31 days, no one raised the flag.

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Where's this two year old child.

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Uh, well, I mean, that's, that's the weird part.

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And, and in that month as well, where was Casey?

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Because her mom said so on July 15th, next point in the

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timeline is where Cindy calls.

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Casey's mom calls the police and says, um, my daughter is here.

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I want someone to come and arrest her.

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She's still in the car.

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She's stolen money.

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Um, and the car smells like a dead.

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Thinking being the police of course, or you know, that inflames

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them, they get over there quickly.

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Um, and then that's where the conversation starts and this, this pickup of Casey.

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So right before that, it sounded like, and so you wonder, okay, Casey, obviously

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wasn't there the whole time she had walked in because her father had called

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her and said, whatever's happening, you know, gaming her, I'm giving her

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an ultimatum and said, you have to come and tell us what's really going on.

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And that was when she finally showed up there.

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So yes, kind of a little more backstory behind that.

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Casey did all sorts of various suspicious things in the 31 days

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before the police were called, including stealing her parents' car.

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Allowing it to run dead in the middle of the road, it was then towed.

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The tow yard reported one reported to the police to report that it had

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a very strong odor coming from it.

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The police notified the family, the Anthony family, George and Cindy

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came and picked up the car and then actually call the police after to your

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point about George indicating, Hey, tell us what's going on, but called

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the police because she sold the car.

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So it wasn't that the car that she always drove.

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So what's always strange to me in this case.

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And, and I, I I'm like she stole the family car.

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She stole the car that she was driving, that they gave her permission to drive.

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And this is one of those situations where you've kind of

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22 year old girl living at home.

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Who's in under complete control of her parents.

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Um, you know, and sh they're essentially, you know, when she doesn't act in the

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way that they want, you know, they say she's still in the car versus

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just using it when things are normal.

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So I don't, did they not have another car?

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Because it sounded to me like that car was either she was using it or

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was assigned to her because then if we're saying, oh, it's the, we found a

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dead body in the smell of dead bodies.

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Why, why are they not more concerned because it

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is their car?

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Well, in addition, I would think, I don't know if it was her car or not, but

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Kaylee's car seat was in the back seat.

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So it was certainly a car that if it wasn't Casey's car that wasn't

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assigned to her by the family, it was certainly one that was used

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frequently to transport Kaylee.

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Right.

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So I agree.

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It raises some weird questions, but I think if nothing else, it might be what

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possibly, why it was reported stolen is because Casey had been moved out.

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She wasn't living there and there was evidence of breaking back into the house

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and taking a gas can to fill up the car.

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So at the very least, it may have been employed just to get Casey's

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attention because I would highly suspect it wasn't Casey's car.

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It was probably a family car that was then towed.

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And the family we're trying to get a hold of Casey and this

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was the best way to do it.

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Got it.

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That's a suspicion.

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It seems like a logical option.

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Got

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it.

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Okay.

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So on July 15th, Cindy calls the police, the shit hits the fan, essentially.

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And they finally got Casey to in the house to a point where she supposed to

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answer the question, where have you been?

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Where's your, where's our granddaughter and what she finally breaks down and

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says, she's been kidnapped and she's fake crying or whatever she does that she

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magically tells a lie, which is pretty unbelievable in the scheme of things.

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And I think what we'll establish over the conversation is how

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great a liar she actually was.

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She took people to the nth degree in her lies, um, you know, from having a

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job and walking them into the building and then getting to the end of the

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corridor and saying, oh, I don't have a job or, oops, I didn't do this.

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Or, oh, I'm pregnant.

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And I'm seven months pregnant.

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Previously to this Virgin.

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Exactly.

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So let's establish the July 15th.

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This is when that moment happens.

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Cindy calls the police, uh, I'm not mistaken.

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The police come, they have a conversation with Casey, even on the 9 1, 1 call.

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Cindy says the nine 11 operator wants to talk to Casey.

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Can you, Casey gets on the phone and flatly, you know, just is

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able to convey this message.

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Is that it?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:14:39

Yes.

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My daughter has been kidnapped.

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I don't know.

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And you know, even, even in this first conversation, she just sounds really

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flippant and annoyed that she even asked to talk to the police about it.

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Casey, if you watch interviews with her,

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honestly, if you just see pictures of her, she has an altar effect.

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It's.

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I almost feel like the synapses aren't connecting

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and definitely got problems for sure.

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And I think even her mom and her dad will readily admit that, you know, and this may

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be part of trying to smooth things over.

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And I

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don't want that to be misconstrued when I say that

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as that Casey's unintelligent quick little aside and backstory, Casey

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does not have a high school diploma.

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She reportedly was a pretty good high school student.

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She was expected to graduate.

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So weeks before graduation, Casey stopped attending high

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school, but never told anyone.

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So as graduation was approaching, Cindy started asking Casey,

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Hey, where's your and down.

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Why haven't I gotten any information from the school?

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And Casey lies to her says, oh, there was a mix up.

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It's all fine.

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Don't worry.

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It'll get taken care of the day of graduation just before graduation.

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Cindy finds out that Casey hasn't been attending and cannot graduate.

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She will not get a diploma.

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But that doesn't deter Casey from going to graduation.

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No one else in the family knows only Cindy in case he now.

Brittney Sherman: 00:16:06

So she goes to graduation, dressed in regular street, clothes walks across

Brittney Sherman: 00:16:11

the stage, but doesn't get a diploma.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:15

Well, I think the important part about this and what you

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:16

just said is it's is, uh, oh, along the way, here with the lies that Casey tells

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:22

even prior to Kaylee, but even through this missing moment, Sydney appears to be

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:28

a bit compliant on these conversations and she, she maybe she doesn't know about the

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:33

lie and what the lie entails, but when she finds out, she definitely, you know, falls

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:38

in line and is supportive of Casey in.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:41

And you can see that in the.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:44

In the, in the recordings of Cindy talking to Casey when she's in

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:48

jail and it's this really strange icon that contact that happens.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:53

And it's, you know, Casey saying, oh, come on mom.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:16:56

Like you're asking me things that you already know the answer to.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:00

And that was what I really felt that she was saying to her, with her,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:03

her facial, uh, you know, her eyes.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:05

I mean, everything was, you know, don't go down this road

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:17:08

because you know what happened?

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:09

Getting back to the timeline.

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:10

We know that July 15th, that's when the police were called July

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:14

16th, Casey is officially charged and leading up to her arrest.

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:22

Moralized come out.

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:24

She sees oh, official explanation for where Kaylee is.

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:28

Is that the day that he went missing, Casey dropped her

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:32

off at her regular Manny.

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:34

Zanny the near Zenata Fernandez Gonzalez.

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:40

So the police said, okay, well, cool.

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:44

Take us to Danny's house.

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:46

And well, of course Jenner.

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:48

So they go to Sandy's house.

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:50

Sandy's not there.

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:52

Kaylee says, well, I went back to pick her up after work and Sandy

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:55

refused to give her to me right there.

Brittney Sherman: 00:17:59

Don't you call the police immediately?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:02

You would think so.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:04

This is where I.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:06

Uh, I think that Casey mixes in truth and lies, there may have been

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:11

something happened not necessarily with denied because she says that

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:14

they don't even know each other.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:16

But I think that this was the impression of something that

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:18

may have actually happened.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:19

So it was a night a really does or someone has this kid then, you know, why would

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:25

they w why, what would Casey be doing?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:27

So I want to talk a little bit now that we know that Casey's

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:30

in jail, she's been arrested.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:32

They started looking at Casey's past.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:33

They started looking at the history of the family, the relationship, obviously

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:37

it's got some interesting, um, God components to it, the way that the family

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:42

works, George and his life evidently.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:46

I wanted to be, eh, from childhood one or two B a M a character at a theme park.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:53

Uh, he was a policeman for a while.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:55

And then he was actually a private security guard.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:18:57

After that, I feel like this family is from New York or upstate.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:01

I don't know.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:01

They seem like they seem like they're in Florida.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:04

There are a lot of new Yorkers, a lot of people from the

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:06

Northeast moved down to Florida.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:07

So it wouldn't surprise me, but they definitely have an accent.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:09

That's not Florida.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:11

And so maybe that was there.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:13

So you've got George in his life.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:15

Uh, he was married prior to Cindy hanging

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:18

out in, back up.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:18

I'm still on this.

Brittney Sherman: 00:19:19

He wanted to be a character at a theme

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:22

park.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:24

I, you know, at first glance, I think he's an alright looking guy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:28

You know, he seems like he's got it together, but apparently he's

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:31

had some challenges in his life.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:33

Uh, his own father fired him from the family business.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:36

And so he then became a police officer that went fine.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:41

Uh, and then evidently when you're secure, you have a lot of police officers or

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:45

officers will transition into security work because as a police officer, you

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:49

will automatically get paid a higher rate.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:51

So there there's that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:53

Um, and he was actually, I forget, or he was a security guard, but

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:19:58

he was an actually, when this happened, he was a security guard

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:01

at some private, um, agency.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:03

So you've got George and then you've got Cindy, who's a nurse.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:06

And then what we really never know about very much is the brother Lee, right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:11

Lee doesn't come up much at all, which is probably good for him.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:15

I mean that, unless he's really not involved, you know, save them the trouble

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:19

of having to live a life of Casey's.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:21

Does my sister.

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:23

Possibly it's reported that Casey and Cindy were extremely close.

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:30

They were best friends, mother and daughter, to be honest, I didn't even

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:33

know that she had a brother until late in my research into this that's how

Brittney Sherman: 00:20:39

far I feel like he is separated from

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:42

this case.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:43

The only thing I really knew about him was that he's not Kaylee's father and there

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:49

was that's a conversation we'll have.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:51

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:52

I mean, and there was a conversation in the trial about, you know, abuse,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:55

but, um, you know, I think it was just, you know, Casey trying to do anything

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:20:59

she could to get out of the situation

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:02

after the Casey takes the officers to

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:05

Zanny, the nanny is playing.

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:07

No success there.

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:09

The officers then say, all right, we'll retrace your steps.

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:12

Take us to work universal studios.

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:15

And as we mentioned, Casey, hasn't worked there.

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:18

She hasn't worked there in years.

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:20

As a matter of fact, there's Sonia, you worked at universal

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:25

first off.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:25

I don't understand why they let anybody in to let and then let her

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:29

walk in to show anybody where the I'm.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:31

She

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:31

straight up, walked into an office building,

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:34

talk to her way through security.

Brittney Sherman: 00:21:37

And trimming the officers to an office where she claims she

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:41

worked.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:42

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:42

And I think part of this honestly, was that there were officers with her.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:45

That's the key, because if she was Joe blow, you can't get any universal studios.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:49

But I think the, the officers definitely help them, you know, help

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:54

guide this a bit and let them in.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:21:56

And, you know, as what everybody says, you know, the craziness of her

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:00

walking, some of these officers in through buildings through many, many

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:05

doors, this is so-and-so's office.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:07

Hey, hello to people.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:08

If you know, you know, and then finally getting to the very end of the corridor

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:12

and saying, I'm sorry, you're right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:14

I actually don't work here.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:16

And you know, what's amazing is you have to understand or try.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:20

I can't understand the kind of person who would need someone on a

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:23

lie that far down a road, because in my life, my biggest fear is

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:28

getting caught in lies, not eating.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:30

And not that you tell lies a lot.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:33

I could never imagine knowing from the beginning that I was telling

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:36

a lie that I could ever get caught in that to me is terrifying.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:39

And for her to take it to that degree, it means that she has absolutely no

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:44

fear and no conscience and doing that.

Brittney Sherman: 00:22:47

Yeah.

Brittney Sherman: 00:22:47

I agree.

Brittney Sherman: 00:22:48

One thing that always puzzled me though, it was almost like

Brittney Sherman: 00:22:50

a game to the police officers.

Brittney Sherman: 00:22:52

They knew this whole time, she never worked

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:54

at universal.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:22:56

So back to the Casey and her and her, her magical lie telling, um, which is

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:01

obviously indicative of some kind of, you know, criminal minds, Ted, Ted

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:07

Bundy, you know, all your famous, you know, criminals, they, you know, they

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:11

would, they would spend these, you know, these tales and it was just amazing

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:15

that they just sounded so, so very much like they believed in themselves.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:19

And I think that was the way that they could really get others to.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:22

I think the difference there, head

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:24

bunny had almost a cult-like following of women.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:29

He was.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:32

Attractive.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:33

He was charming.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:34

He was intelligent.

Brittney Sherman: 00:23:36

No, one's going to accuse Casey Anthony of being a member of

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:39

no, no, not at all, but as I just, I walked in, you know,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:44

and I was playing the podcast and these guys are about Casey Anthony and

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:48

it's sort of a frat party environment.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:49

They're talking about hot.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:50

She is.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:50

And that was brought up in that podcast many times.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:53

And I found it fascinating that that's still an important thing

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:56

to talk about whether it's making fun of her or whatever.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:23:59

But, um, at the end of the day, I think someone thinks she's

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:02

attractive and, and eminently pretty

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:04

persuasive.

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:05

She's very persuasive almost to the point of, I don't know,

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:12

sociopathic to a certain extent.

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:14

And I think that speaks back to the flat aspect that was referencing

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:18

and her attractiveness, I think ultimately that might have played a

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:24

factor in the result of the trial.

Brittney Sherman: 00:24:26

Oh,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:26

absolutely.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:27

Um, I mean, no doubt.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:29

I, you know, when you watch her in the, in the courtroom, she definitely is different

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:34

than all the pictures and the pictures where she's partying and she's doing

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:37

her hot bod contest with her boyfriend DJ anonymous, which is the dumbest name

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:42

I've ever heard, because why do you want to be anonymous if you're a DJ?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:45

Um, and his friend Clint, uh, from long island who, uh, essentially

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:51

we're probably, uh, you know, I think driving some of this.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:55

Her personality had changed over time.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:24:58

As she had met these guys, evidently she was a strong, she

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:01

believes strongly in marijuana.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:03

She didn't actually smoke.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:04

She, you know, would chastise her friends were smoking pot.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:07

And then all of a sudden, when she started hanging out with whatever,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:11

Joey, something, Joey, whatever it Clint, you know, she wanted him to start

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:14

partying and she wanted to start, you know, living, living the more fun life.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:19

And that was probably right around the time where Kaylee had, you know, it wasn't

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:22

in the picture because it's easier to live that kind of life without a child.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:27

We know the lies.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:30

We know the change in personality.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:32

We know the police know that she's full of it,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:25:36

which must've been so fun for them.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:39

It was like a game seriously.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:42

Now we're now Casey's in a corner.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:47

She's arrested.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:49

She hires an attorney, Jose.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:52

She has her first name court, of course, pleads not guilty at this point.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:58

Kelly's only missing.

Brittney Sherman: 00:25:59

So she's initially charged with neglect.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:03

The child endangerment, her bond is set at $500,000.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:07

Then the judge ultimately decides to ban release to all media.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:15

As you can imagine, hot and girl in Florida, the media is all over it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:21

Missing little adorable blonde hair toddler, the heart

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:26

of America at this point.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:28

So the jerk says no one's allowed in which I think maybe goes against Casey.

Brittney Sherman: 00:26:38

I think Casey, the attention.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:40

Oh, absolutely.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:41

By the way, I just want to make sure that we call out that the first judge was

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:46

actually taken off the case, talking to a blogger judge because, you know, God

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:53

forbid somebody dogs in the media, I, you know, let's not talk to the media at all.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:26:57

So I am sure that that sort of propel this into a non-media or

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:02

attempting to be non-media plus how are they ever going to find a jury?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:06

Um, and I think ultimately what they did is they brought a jury in, since the

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:09

media was blocked from courtroom proceedings.

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:13

I don't know how they found out, but it was leaked to the media,

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:16

probably through her attorney, maybe through someone else attached to

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:19

the case, maybe her family, that her defense was going to be Haley drum.

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:26

So at this point, Casey has not been charged with murder.

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:30

They don't even know that she's dead, but there's all of a sudden speculation out

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:35

there that she drown in the family pool.

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:37

Why would there be speculation?

Brittney Sherman: 00:27:39

Why would that have gotten out if she's not even dead yet?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:44

Yeah, well, yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:45

I mean, exactly.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:46

So who would have, who would, he would be compelled to meet that kind of thing

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:50

who would benefit from that information?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:53

That's really, I mean, ultimately Casey cause that's going to be her defense

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:27:58

so likely it would have been a defense theory, but you know, I think lots of

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:02

people were talking about the pool and the ladder and how, you know, those

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:07

things happen all the time in Florida.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:09

It's hot Casey and the dad were alone at the house together with

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:13

Kaylee and that he was the last one.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:15

That's our, I'm not surprised because I think they were

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:19

jumping to all kinds of things.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:21

And I, if I'm not mistaken that area in the back where they did find,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:25

so eventually they find Kaylee's body, I think six months in, right?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:28:29

Yeah.

Brittney Sherman: 00:28:30

After multiple calls to the police though, by a meter reader

Brittney Sherman: 00:28:34

who reported finding any suspicious bag off to the side of the road.

Brittney Sherman: 00:28:40

So it took three phone calls for someone to actually come out and investigate.

Brittney Sherman: 00:28:44

This two particular things are really suspicious about this one.

Brittney Sherman: 00:28:50

We know EquiSearch, which is a nationwide.

Brittney Sherman: 00:28:54

Certain volunteer search organization who dedicates people to looking for missing,

Brittney Sherman: 00:28:59

missing children, searched the area high and low, but as Salish your from Florida,

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:06

you know, that it turns into swamp land.

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:09

The searches started around hurricane season, tropical storm season.

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:14

So the area around the Anthony home was underwater.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:18

Oh yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:19

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:19

It would have been really swampy in that heat.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:22

And in that kind of the heat coupled with the, the, just the vast amount of water in

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:28

Florida, I don't know if you've ever been, but when you fly in, it looks more like

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:32

there's just little speckles of land in the middle of all these masses of water.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:36

So it doesn't take much.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:38

I mean, you're talking about everywhere along every side of the road, you've

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:41

got these, you know, probably retention ponds and these little, like two or three

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:45

inch puddles of water, but it adds up, but water, you know, standing over an

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:29:51

area over time is definitely going to increase the decomposition of a body.

Brittney Sherman: 00:29:55

Here's a question for, we can establish, we can agree.

Brittney Sherman: 00:30:00

Water probably covered that area.

Brittney Sherman: 00:30:02

A quarter mile from Nina Anthony home, a body was found a quarter

Brittney Sherman: 00:30:08

mile from the Anthony home.

Brittney Sherman: 00:30:09

How.

Brittney Sherman: 00:30:12

That's like across the street practically.

Brittney Sherman: 00:30:15

Oh, is that, how, how did it take

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:17

so long?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:18

Well, also, so even if you've got the body in the area where that was underwater, at

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:25

one point, it would, I would assume that if you've got dogs in the area tracking,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:31

they would have hit somewhere along the path from the house to that area and it

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:36

leaked, and then they would've stopped.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:38

They would have stopped at the water's edge, whatever that water's edge

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:40

is, they would've stopped at it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:42

But nowhere around the house, did they really hit on anything with the exception

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:46

of two places they hit, they hit in the house and by the back of the car, by

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:50

the trunk of the car for cadaver, they also, the first time the dogs went out,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:55

also hit in the backyard for a cadaver.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:30:58

When they went back to the house, they did not find they did not have that same hit.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:01

There's some idea that it was that that cadaver was beyond that car again.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:08

I mean, what I don't understand, and also it seems really weird.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:12

Is that, that body and who knows how long that would, that timeframe would

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:16

have been because Kate, the, the girl little girl would have had to decompose.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:21

So how long she must've been in the car the whole time and someone is established

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:26

that she died on the 16th, but I don't know if that's actually the case.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:30

Did she actually die on the 16th or was she kept alive for a period of time?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:34

If you only have the bones, I'm not sure how you know that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:37

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:37

I don't

Brittney Sherman: 00:31:38

know, obviously, and we know she was missing, but that's why

Brittney Sherman: 00:31:41

for so long, Casey was only charged with.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:45

Yeah, because we didn't know if he actually had a

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:47

body because she could have been running around Zanny the nanny.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:31:49

Exactly.

Brittney Sherman: 00:31:50

It's.

Brittney Sherman: 00:31:51

Hmm.

Brittney Sherman: 00:31:53

And when you talk about the car, so one of the prosecutions lightening, your

Brittney Sherman: 00:31:59

odds that they thought would really be the silver bullet to get Casey.

Brittney Sherman: 00:32:04

Is that there was significant evidence of a decomposing body in the back of the,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:11

on the back of the car.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:12

I think they establish that through the trunk, some

Brittney Sherman: 00:32:15

gas.

Brittney Sherman: 00:32:16

Right?

Brittney Sherman: 00:32:16

So, so there was essentially like a scene in the carpet of

Brittney Sherman: 00:32:21

the back of the car in the trunk.

Brittney Sherman: 00:32:23

There was gas that was collected as he said, right.

Brittney Sherman: 00:32:27

Probably most telling a wall, multiple people report.

Brittney Sherman: 00:32:31

A horrible smell that is akin to, or exactly that of a decomposing body.

Brittney Sherman: 00:32:38

Right.

Brittney Sherman: 00:32:39

And it started really when the car was towed, someone reported that there was

Brittney Sherman: 00:32:43

an odor, the person didn't, the tow yard didn't know that it was decomposing body,

Brittney Sherman: 00:32:47

but reported the odor to begin with.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:49

Sure.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:50

And then that's when they said they found garbage in the back of the car

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:54

and for duke Creek, Casey credited.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:32:57

If, if that, if she did put that body in the car, if she killed Kaylee and

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:00

she put that body in the car and that body decompose for her to have the

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:04

forethought to then take the body out, put it somewhere wherever, and

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:08

then he'd be back at Casey credit.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:12

Well, she must've thought about this cause she put the garbage in

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:14

there to cover up the decomp smell.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:16

You know, you're like, well, cause I waiver here.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:19

I say, she's an idiot.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:20

Oh, I can't believe she, excuse again, I have the fear of being caught in a lie.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:26

So I'm like kind of, you know, to be so bold and bring.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:29

Um, and then to spend these lies to the point where she exhausts

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:33

everyone, but she does put some thought into some of this because

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:37

she's thoughtful about the garbage.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:40

She must've been, she that wasn't coincidentally, she put it in there

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:43

because you want, wanted to cover up the smell if that was the case.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:46

I think the other thing that in the back of the trunk of

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:48

the car that I found the most.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:50

Was it, they found hair and that hair had, what's called a death band on it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:33:54

And that death bin is only on hair that is attached to a decomposing body.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:00

It's the law, there's a black line there.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:03

And so they found Kaley's hair because it was that it was the mother

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:07

line where they did the analysis.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:08

It could only be in the mother line.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:10

So that haircut have only come from Casey or Cindy or Kaylee.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:13

And it was untreated, which means that, so it had to have been Kaylee's.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:17

So I think it was someone I

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:18

mentioned real quick, talking about giving credit

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:21

where credit's due to Casey and she planted the seeds previously by

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:27

reporting to her dad, or maybe it was.

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:30

That her car smelled like she hit a dead animal or there was a

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:34

dead animal in there.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:35

Well, yes, exactly.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:37

She told her dad to, to, I don't know why too, because maybe one was a little

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:41

li two squirrels caught up in her engine and they got, you know, when she started

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:47

the car, they got ground up in there.

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:50

That's freaking disgusting.

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:53

Okay.

Brittney Sherman: 00:34:54

Thank you.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:54

I don't look at me about Prius cause I love my Prius and

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:34:57

there's no reverse world that entered by the way, just for the best thing.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:01

That's freaking awful.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:03

But, uh, that's what Casey told her dad was when he asked her.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:05

Cause he finally, you know, getting her to that house and

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:07

like tell us what is going on.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:09

And that was her.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:10

Explain the decomposition, smell to squirrel is caught up on my engine

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:14

and must've gotten wrapped up in.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:17

You know, hamburger, meat gross.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:19

She told her friend Gonzalez not Gonzales, something to Dallas.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:23

She told one of her friends that she had thought she had hit a squirrel.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:27

So I don't even know why she was compelled to tell him to change the story.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:30

If she told her dad one story about two girls and the engine.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:33

And why didn't you just tell her friend it's so many lines.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:35

I dunno.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:37

That's exactly

Brittney Sherman: 00:35:37

right.

Brittney Sherman: 00:35:38

You see that speaks to Casey is coming, but not super

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:44

Selligent.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:44

He's not because it's so much easier just to remember one story.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:49

Like, I mean, I, again, I'm mortified being caught in a lie,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:52

you know, so I just don't ever lie.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:54

It's, you know, I wish I was good at it because I'd probably wouldn't

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:58

hurt my mom's feelings so often.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:35:59

But you know, at the end of the day, it's a lot of work to remember

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:02

lies.

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:03

Poor mom.

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:06

I know.

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:07

Well, I try to be complimentary all the time to everybody, you know, Hey,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:11

come on.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:14

All right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:14

So back to the car, back to the hair, back to the calm, back to all these

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:20

stories shooting as the police go and, you know, continue to talk to the

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:24

family by the way, this poor family.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:27

Do you watch the video of these, you know, Cindy and outside their house being

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:32

off of, you know, the media, because they're just I'm word choice there.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:37

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:37

It was really awful.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:39

You know, they were getting these people, you know, and they were getting

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:41

them back and they're wearing Shirley.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:44

Yes, it was really awful.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:46

And the media is either being supportive or unsupportive, but

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:48

either way, they're getting all this attention that they don't want.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:50

They're wearing a t-shirt with

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:51

Kaylee on it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:52

The court of public opinion made their decision.

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:54

Well, before this went to trial as with many high profile

Brittney Sherman: 00:36:57

cases, it's the norm these days,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:36:59

awful.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:00

That has nothing real.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:01

I mean, at the end of the day, you know, sure.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:03

Casey's in jail, go to the courthouse or go to the gym protest, but these

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:07

poor, the family, you know, I don't know how you, you get through that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:11

And also in this moment are grieving for your granddaughter

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:14

that your daughter likely killed.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:16

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:17

I mean, that's really, you know, and I think I want to back up a bit, cause I

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:21

think we, we can talk a little bit about Sidney and Casey and their relationship.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:26

And now I feel, I feel really strongly that Cindy knows

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:29

something more than she's saying.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:31

I think that she realized after a certain point, I don't think that there was a

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:35

point where Casey could have told her the truth, but I think she suggested to her,

Brittney Sherman: 00:37:39

um, cause there wasn't

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:39

much time where she came home and they were talking

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:41

about it and then she went to jail.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:42

So anything that her jail time would have been recorded.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:45

But I think that Cindy tinny in Casey's relationship, they were best friends.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:49

Like you said, Cindy knew about her not graduating.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:53

Oh wait, let me just remind everybody.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:55

Cindy did not tell anybody else in the family, she don't lie to the family.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:37:59

She kept that light going and.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:03

This is exactly the same thing that happened when they

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:05

found out Katie was pregnant.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:07

Right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:07

They found that case.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:08

He was pregnant because she told at first she said, oh,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:10

you're getting a little chubby.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:11

Oh, no problem.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:13

Well, I couldn't be pregnant.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:14

I'm a Virgin.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:14

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:15

Okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:15

Turns out to see immaculate conception.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:17

Absolutely.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:18

Seven months in.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:19

Somebody else in the family mentioned that Casey looks pregnant and Sidney

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:24

now is blowing it off and Casey too, and she's seven months pregnant.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:28

And when you're that little under seven months pregnant, I mean, sure.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:31

You may look like, you know, you're not really, everybody carries babies

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:34

differently, but I can't imagine.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:36

And then what happens in two months when the baby comes out, like

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:39

you still got a reality to this happening, this is not going away.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:44

And I kind of feel like that's the way Sydney and Casey Casey approach.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:47

Everything is like, you know, you just keep pushing it off.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:50

It will go away.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:51

You know?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:51

And in this case, it's kind of what happened because you know, her road

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:54

to freedom because she was acquitted.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:56

I mean, she, she pushed through it somehow or another, every day she

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:38:59

pushed through it and she created more lies, but it, it happened for her.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:39:03

It's kind of amazing to me, you know, Sydney.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:39:07

These realities and then finding out after the fact must've been really

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:39:10

hurtful for the family, and then they must not have trusted them.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:13

That parlays perfectly into where you and I

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:17

diverge a little bit on this.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:18

I have a lot of theories.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:20

I wrote several down.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:22

Then I'll talk about later because I don't really know what happened, but

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:26

one of my theories is that Cindy knew, I don't think Cindy was involved in the

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:32

death of Katie, but I think she knew was she involved in the coverup or the

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:38

barrier maybe, but Cindy only called 9 1 1 to report Kaylee missing after

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:48

Casey told her brother wheat let's think about this 31 days, the grandparents

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:55

don't see their granddaughter.

Brittney Sherman: 00:39:57

They are a strange, somewhat from.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:01

Casey comes over.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:03

They call the police to report Casey for stealing the car.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:09

Kaylee is not with Casey.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:12

So in my conspiracy theory, if Cindy and Casey knew what happened to Kaylee, it

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:21

was still contained with the two of them.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:24

Then Casey, essentially let it slip to leave that she doesn't

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:30

know where her daughter is now.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:32

The lids off

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:34

now, now

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:36

him.

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:36

She can't have to need to hold it in because

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:39

now it's out there.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:41

True.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:42

I just, I can't, I don't understand how somebody can you live.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:46

They pretty much lived or up until right before or the, I guess the last

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:52

time they saw them was in June and then they moved out right after that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:40:56

So they, she has been skirting them, but the night

Brittney Sherman: 00:40:58

before she went missing, Kaylee and Casey

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:01

stayed with the Anthony's.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:02

Got it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:03

By the way, let's back up a moment and talk about how Casey

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:07

was going to afford an apartment.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:10

She really didn't have a job.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:12

And I think this is one of my biggest hiccups in this whole thing is

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:16

how is she going to move anywhere?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:18

Does she have a car because she doesn't have any money.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:20

If she has money, how was she getting it?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:22

It sounded to me like she had gone into the Anthony's house

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:25

a couple of times it was stolen money, but what else is she doing?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:28

Well, she exists with no money.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:41:30

No, you're

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:31

right.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:31

You can't.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:32

But the first week that she moved out, she was staying with her boyfriend.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:36

Then she moved in with her.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:38

Uh, whether or not there was some sort of a rent agreement.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:41

She was going to say rent free until she got a job.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:44

No idea.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:46

Or Casey always has a backup plan.

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:49

She was later arrested after she was released on bail, which is strange because

Brittney Sherman: 00:41:55

with a half million dollar bond, some random person came up and paid for it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:01

But after she was released from jail for the endangerment of Kaylee, she was

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:05

rearrested for stealing more than $1,400.

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:08

And writing fraudulent checks from her friend, Amy, who she was living with.

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:13

Okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:14

So her way to pay Amy was to take any of his

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:16

money and pay her back with it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:18

Casey's the Dick Dick move, bro.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:22

Let's go back a moment.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:24

God, Casey, out of jail.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:25

How has that hospital who paid the bond?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:27

Is that even like, I am like, I think there's something much

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:31

deeper to Casey than we're all thinking about because she's lying.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:34

She's able to do this, you know, all these.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:36

I mean, is she involved in like prostitution?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:38

Is she involved in like drugs?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:40

Well,

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:41

very fair question.

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:43

So a bail bondsman named Berliner Pedea paved Casey's half a million dollar bail.

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:49

I don't, I don't get it right.

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:52

Exactly.

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:52

I don't know why I end

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:42:53

up getting

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:54

a bail bondsman or bounty hunter.

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:55

He was a male boss or whether I don't really know either, but

Brittney Sherman: 00:42:58

from what I've heard, thank you.

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:00

Wikipedia and investigation discovery.

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:05

She wasn't

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:12

half a million dollars and he is not the only person that posted

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:16

bond because he posted on, she was released, fitted with an ankle monitor.

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:22

She was rearrested for stealing the money from her roommate.

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:25

Her parents came up with an additional 500,000.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:29

Her parents in Florida came up with an additional $500,000.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:32

Her

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:32

parents retired police officer turned

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:35

security guard who wanted to

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:36

be a theme

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:37

park character, and her nurse that you can

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:43

is calling to be goofy.

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:46

And her nurse

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:47

mom,

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:47

a half a million dollars, they came up with to pay.

Brittney Sherman: 00:43:52

How does that happen?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:53

It doesn't, it just doesn't.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:43:55

I mean, today we're fucking driving a sunburn.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:00

If you had a half, a million dollars, you wouldn't be

Brittney Sherman: 00:44:02

driving a sunburn know I'll talk later about how she

Brittney Sherman: 00:44:05

picked her up at certain speeds.

Brittney Sherman: 00:44:07

Well,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:07

I think that's all wrapped up in it is I

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:09

think she would do anything.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:10

And I think she probably was first off.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:12

We know she was spending eight hours a day, five days a week for

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:15

two freaking years saying that she was working at universal.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:19

Where was she going?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:20

What was she.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:21

At the

Brittney Sherman: 00:44:21

very least find another job.

Brittney Sherman: 00:44:24

What do you do?

Brittney Sherman: 00:44:24

How boring is that?

Brittney Sherman: 00:44:26

You don't have any money.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:28

She was creating emails with her employees that universal

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:32

leaving them around the house that is so much work to keep that lag, going to

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:37

get up every morning and get dressed.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:39

It's just easier

Brittney Sherman: 00:44:40

to work a real job.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:41

Well, you have money unless you're already getting money.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:44

Yes.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:44

So that's what I'm, you know, this is a young girl.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:47

She's 22, whatever she thinks she's hot

Brittney Sherman: 00:44:50

in Orlando.

Brittney Sherman: 00:44:51

Bahar.

Brittney Sherman: 00:44:52

She's hot.

Brittney Sherman: 00:44:52

She's Orlando.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:53

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:44:53

She's an Orlando eight, you know, she's an ally and that's okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:00

But you know, in good for her, that's great.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:02

She was in the right place.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:04

Um, but I just, I can't, I mean, maybe they took a mortgage out on

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:07

their house, but their house was not worth half a million dollars either.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:09

No, I mean, there, there are houses far and few between not for the cop and the.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:16

So with the Sunbird, it just doesn't make a ton of sense, you know, unless these

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:20

people were going to use her, if they were going to use her for something, or

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:23

she knew someone, something was going on, I think these are where things

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:28

worth the things that we should think about, because I just don't understand

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:31

how she was going to move anywhere, unless she just really had no idea.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:35

I mean, she never did think about the end game because that's how our lives work.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:39

You know, she just thought she'd lie our way until she can just walk away from it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:42

I think that's a trait of a narcissist.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:44

Right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:44

It's just, you know, definitely disregard, you know, and it, and she'll

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:48

get through it because she's heard it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:50

She's amazing.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:51

Oh yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:52

Oh yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:45:53

I mean,

Brittney Sherman: 00:45:55

uh, in my opinion speaks to also the family

Brittney Sherman: 00:45:58

is protecting Casey mother.

Brittney Sherman: 00:46:01

Nothing knew anything.

Brittney Sherman: 00:46:02

They still went out of their way to do everything they could to protect Casey.

Brittney Sherman: 00:46:06

And that speaks to how she felt she was on top of.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:10

Oh, well, absolutely.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:11

I mean, she, I guess she had a history of, they had a really weird family dynamic.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:17

Cindy was a definitely the, you know, the queen of the house too,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:20

or just kind of run around, just agreeing with Cindy, which is fine.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:23

I don't mind that relationship at all though, who really

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:26

ruled the house was Casey.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:28

Um, you know, if anything happened, Casey would come in,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:30

they would have a conversation.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:32

It wouldn't take much to get her set her off.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:34

She would get excited about something and you know, where

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:37

are you accusing me of this?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:38

I mean, I think they got excited about the gas cans by the way.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:41

Oh yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:42

So I think we should talk about the Gaskins later, but I just wanna

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:45

remind everybody on the gas cans was duct tape and that is exactly

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:46:49

the same duct tape that was found on

Brittney Sherman: 00:46:51

or near Caylee's body.

Brittney Sherman: 00:46:53

Let's actually talk about the gas can now, because that's the part that

Brittney Sherman: 00:46:57

I can't, I don't understand a big deal was made about the gas cake.

Brittney Sherman: 00:47:01

She broke into the house and stole a gas can, which to me.

Brittney Sherman: 00:47:06

What's the big deal with that.

Brittney Sherman: 00:47:08

We'll talk about the duct tape that may or may not tie in

Brittney Sherman: 00:47:11

later, but what was the big deal?

Brittney Sherman: 00:47:14

So she took a

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:14

gas cannon.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:15

I think this is the parents trying to maintain control over her.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:19

And it had probably had a lot to do with Kaylee because they

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:21

wanted to see their granddaughter.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:22

And they were probably worried about her in, you know, Casey's care because

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:26

they know their daughter, you know, they would try to, they would use anything

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:29

they could to try to regain control.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:31

So if it's a stupid as well, the only thing she did was take the

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:35

gas can, and that's all I can do.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:36

But I think that they were, you know, even with the car, you know, she was

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:40

using the car and then once they, you know, she pissed them off and

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:43

they're like, well, the car was stolen.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:45

So I think it was really, you know, and she, I don't know if she moved

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:48

out because she wanted to move out or because her, they wanted her to move

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:51

out because it was one conversation I had heard where she had told her friend

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:55

that her mom was making her move.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:47:57

But I really don't believe that because I don't think the mom would have

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:00

wanted that little girl to go anywhere.

Brittney Sherman: 00:48:02

I agree.

Brittney Sherman: 00:48:03

I disagree.

Brittney Sherman: 00:48:03

I think Keeley became their world.

Brittney Sherman: 00:48:06

And when you have a two-year-old toddler,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:08

it usually does.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:10

Absolutely.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:10

I agree with you then maybe they want to give you see to move out.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:15

But I don't think Casey would want to move out without the little

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:18

girl, because that was her control.

Brittney Sherman: 00:48:21

Yes or no.

Brittney Sherman: 00:48:22

I mean, well,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:23

definitely were control over her parents and that was

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:26

probably how they were getting money.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:27

Yeah.

Brittney Sherman: 00:48:28

Probably wanted a job.

Brittney Sherman: 00:48:30

So

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:31

she must've somebody paid

Brittney Sherman: 00:48:32

for daycare.

Brittney Sherman: 00:48:34

We talked about everything leading up to the case.

Brittney Sherman: 00:48:37

We ready to talk about the trial

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:40

a year.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:43

Think so.

Brittney Sherman: 00:48:44

You want to cover a little more.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:46

I think that's, you know, the trial sort of speaks for

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:49

itself, but I feel like that we've, we've already kind of hit the pinnacle.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:53

Well, the top of this was the lies, finding the child, George, the

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:48:59

guy who found the child and then even suggesting that it was him,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:04

which I really don't agree with.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:05

We talked about the proximity of the child being found to the house.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:10

You can talk about the evidence with the body.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:12

I think we should.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:13

Can we, if we can talk about that for a second, I think

Brittney Sherman: 00:49:15

that's where, yeah, so that's essentially what I

Brittney Sherman: 00:49:18

mean is we've heard all these things about everything that led up to it,

Brittney Sherman: 00:49:21

and we can talk about the evidence that's presented and some of the

Brittney Sherman: 00:49:24

inflammatory things that are brought up

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:26

at the trial.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:28

Yes.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:29

So let's talk a little bit more about the body.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:31

And when they found the body six months into this, they found the body, the

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:35

little Kaley's body she was in found, like you said, a quarter of a mile from

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:40

their house and an area by the road.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:43

Florida's pretty much underwater anyway.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:45

So it doesn't take much or under sea level, but it doesn't take

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:47

much for the water to settle.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:48

So I'm not surprised that they made not have found this sooner, but I find it

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:53

hard to believe that somebody somewhere.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:56

And for this guy to call twice and nobody doing anything was kind of crazy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:49:59

You know, he readily admits that he took a stick and stuck it into the skull

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:50:05

and lifted it up to see what it was.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:50:07

And, um, I'm assuming that there was probably some hair attached to

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:50:11

that skull or some hair matting.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:50:13

That's what normally happens.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:50:15

Somebody I listen to a podcast or I've watched an interview with the foreman

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:50:19

and he talked about how the pictures that they saw were so grizzly, but I was

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:50:24

having a hard time with that because I thought we just found a bag of bones.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:50:27

So, yeah.

Brittney Sherman: 00:50:27

Okay.

Brittney Sherman: 00:50:27

Let's discuss that bag of bones.

Brittney Sherman: 00:50:30

I'm a little unclear on that also because the first two times that

Brittney Sherman: 00:50:37

the meter reader called the police, he reported seeing this bag that he

Brittney Sherman: 00:50:42

thought maybe there was a body and when,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:50:46

how am I going to go out the first time

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:50:48

when there's a body in a bag?

Brittney Sherman: 00:50:52

I mean, Greg.

Brittney Sherman: 00:50:54

They were probably getting tips up the wazoo at this time, going

Brittney Sherman: 00:50:58

everywhere, Caylee Anthony sightings.

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:00

So you have to be strategic in the ones you want to look at, but a

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:03

quarter mile from the Anthony home, I would think that's when they

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:06

were put at the top of your list.

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:08

So here's my theory.

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:11

He reported seeing this bag went underwater, went through the winter

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:17

water, succeeded the bag opened up.

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:21

So when he came back, the third time the bag was open and he could see into

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:26

it that there was truly a dead body.

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:29

Like he suspected all along and it wasn't just in a bag.

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:32

It was, she was wrapped in a sheet or some sort of cover

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:41

Winnie the Pooh blanket and then placed into a bag.

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:45

So it's also possible animals got to the bag and opened it up.

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:49

That's how he would have been able to, as he said, And touch the

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:52

school with a stick and manipulate the crime scene, ultimately.

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:56

And I think it was two bags.

Brittney Sherman: 00:51:58

I don't

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:51:58

think it was just one.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:51:59

There was the white laundry bag.

Brittney Sherman: 00:52:01

That's clearly from the Anthony's house, establish that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:52:06

And then I either

Brittney Sherman: 00:52:07

that bad was inside of a black garbage bag or the

Brittney Sherman: 00:52:10

reverse, but I'm assuming if the white

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:52:12

would have been, I would have been on the outside, it

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:52:14

would have been a lot easier to see.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:52:15

I think I was the black bag is on the outside, but canvas inside,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:52:19

which honest to God that bag opening up that black garbage bag.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:52:23

It must've been a mess in there.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:52:24

I mean, you've got water and heat, the decomposition, I mean, you've

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:52:28

got probably a little mat of hair.

Brittney Sherman: 00:52:30

Um, something was offensive enough to where it

Brittney Sherman: 00:52:32

freaked the jury out because a lot of them talk about hope, how

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:52:35

bad those pictures were.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:52:36

Um, and it was a child.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:52:37

And obviously everybody's really sensitive to that

Brittney Sherman: 00:52:40

because no matter what, you've got a little bag of child here

Brittney Sherman: 00:52:44

and point of clarity, um, objective.

Brittney Sherman: 00:52:48

In the courtroom right now.

Brittney Sherman: 00:52:49

Uh, just want to make sure we're clear on this.

Brittney Sherman: 00:52:53

I want to retract the previous statement.

Brittney Sherman: 00:52:55

I said the meter reader called three times.

Brittney Sherman: 00:52:58

It wasn't until the fourth time that he called and then they

Brittney Sherman: 00:53:02

actually came out no more times.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:53:06

Why are you kidding me?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:53:08

You're the one from Florida.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:53:09

You tell me it's not

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:53:14

it's not like you're washed up on the shore.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:53:16

I mean, I know you can see a lot, but picking a skull up out sick.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:53:21

I don't know if, I mean, I don't know if he did that the first

Brittney Sherman: 00:53:23

or the fourth

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:53:23

time, but any of those times, like I would have

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:53:26

been screaming, bloody murder, like get your ass out of here.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:53:29

What

Brittney Sherman: 00:53:30

possessed someone though to say, I think that's a skull.

Brittney Sherman: 00:53:34

Let me lift it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:53:36

Uh,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:53:36

I would do that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:53:37

I love

Brittney Sherman: 00:53:40

and live to see him on the wall.

Brittney Sherman: 00:53:42

I don't want to

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:53:55

child school.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:53:56

Do you mean like a headway on a wall?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:00

Is that looking at herd of like a hunter?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:02

It's somebody I don't

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:07

full skeleton, not a doctor's skeleton.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:12

This is clearly small.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:17

And there it's small.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:20

It's not an animal.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:21

I would probably still actually now I retract that when I was younger, I would

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:25

definitely want to talk, but maybe not now, because I would definitely have

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:28

respect for a crime scene because clearly human stuff around it, you can see imag,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:34

which means it's probably in or near it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:36

Right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:36

And then you may see the duct tape that was apparent.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:40

You know, that, I think what I think what helps me understand the timeline

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:44

a little also is that duct tape and the condition of the bones, because

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:48

you know what they say is she must've done it almost immediately after she

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:51

was missing, because it would have taken that long for everything there to

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:54:55

decompose, like, but I still don't know if they can nail it down to an exact day.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:55:00

And that's hard because when you try to establish alibis, if it happens.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:55:04

Within a 72 hour range.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:55:06

It's hard to establish some of these alibis through that whole time period.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:55:09

So, you know, again, the jurors were really from that, the reason

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:55:13

that they couldn't convict her is because they just didn't feel like

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:55:15

no spoiler alert so many years after.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:55:21

And they say, I know they say that, uh, Jon snow died.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:55:30

That's

Brittney Sherman: 00:55:30

more recent.

Brittney Sherman: 00:55:32

So upset.

Brittney Sherman: 00:55:33

A lot of people.

Brittney Sherman: 00:55:34

I know I will never watch game of Thrones again, by the day, I'm not

Brittney Sherman: 00:55:37

going to go back and rewatch the show go from being the most popular show

Brittney Sherman: 00:55:41

of all time to one of the most hated

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:55:45

because they ruined the end ruin.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:55:47

Did I really?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:55:48

We will get it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:55:52

oh, it was a beautiful show.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:55:53

I mean, seriously,

Brittney Sherman: 00:55:55

we digress back to the case,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:55:57

you know, we've got Casey in jail now we've

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:56:00

got the body so we can hear.

Brittney Sherman: 00:56:03

We started talking about the duct tape.

Brittney Sherman: 00:56:05

I know this is a future for you, and it was a huge sticking

Brittney Sherman: 00:56:08

point for the prosecution.

Brittney Sherman: 00:56:09

So I'm going to let you own this because I had actually spoke a few holes in

Brittney Sherman: 00:56:14

here, at least I think again, but I know it was a really big deal for you.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:56:16

It is because, well, let's just say let's just

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:56:20

establish that, that right.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:56:22

If somebody is saying, oh, well we don't know how she was killed.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:56:26

I'm not sure how this couldn't be considered a homicide.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:56:30

If you look at the duct tape being honored around her

Brittney Sherman: 00:56:32

face.

Brittney Sherman: 00:56:33

So hopefully by the way, the prosecution's main argument as to how Kaley was

Brittney Sherman: 00:56:39

murdered is that she was suffocated with duct tape over her nose or mouth for,

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:56:44

I think that that is one of the things that the jury

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:56:46

really had a hard time with because that I think was a bit farfetched.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:56:50

I think that they had, I don't think you Suffolk it's moon with duct tape.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:56:53

I think that you put that on to shut them up.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:56:55

Okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:56:56

I never saw that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:56:57

She said that I can do it with duct tape, but that was a

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:56:59

by-product of something else.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:00

I think that the Xanax.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:02

It was whatever it was.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:04

Um, you know, I do think that she was probably given something and

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:07

she probably, but then why would you have duct tape it off if you put, if

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:09

she, if she died from you giving her something, what she wouldn't be, what,

Brittney Sherman: 00:57:14

what's the point of the duck?

Brittney Sherman: 00:57:15

So the body's found there's duct tape around her jaw or on

Brittney Sherman: 00:57:20

her

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:20

jaw holding it on pretty much to her

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:23

skull, but I don't think it was

Brittney Sherman: 00:57:25

over at the time.

Brittney Sherman: 00:57:27

It wasn't actually over for nose and mouth or where her

Brittney Sherman: 00:57:30

nose and mouth is in her school.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:31

I think it was small part of it was, but the

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:33

majority was stuff up in her hair.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:35

Oh, wait, the hair works, I guess when you die like that in an outside situation.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:40

Cause I listened to the body farm bypass and it's amazing is

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:43

that you've got a skull rolling on the ground in whatever way.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:46

And the heroine, a decomposable fall this back kind of just land around it.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:51

And it makes like a horseshoe around the head.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:53

It's like a hair mat.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:54

Okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:57:55

So that's where you could even, it's all, you know, cause it had been there for

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:00

so long in that humidity, in that heat, you know, it had all just fallen back.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:03

So that's the assumption, but they say that that would have

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:07

fit over her mouth and her nose.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:09

But you know, you don't know if that I think again, I don't think

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:13

that duct tape was the weapon.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:15

I think that duct tape was, um, something to try to get,

Brittney Sherman: 00:58:18

keep the little girl

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:19

quiet.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:20

Okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:21

And that's the only reason, honestly.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:23

And here's the weird part about this duct tape

Brittney Sherman: 00:58:24

by the way.

Brittney Sherman: 00:58:26

That

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:26

duct tape is not very common.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:28

The kind of duct

Brittney Sherman: 00:58:28

tape that was used, they found it in the Anthony's home.

Brittney Sherman: 00:58:31

They found it

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:32

on the signs, the freaking flyers that they put

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:35

up well around the neighborhood.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:37

Was that exactly that tape?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:39

Like, are you kidding?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:40

Look what you use the murder weapon.

Brittney Sherman: 00:58:43

Agree.

Brittney Sherman: 00:58:43

Suffocated her to put the signs up, trying

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:45

to find her, like it's just really, really gross in a year.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:49

Okay.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:49

So you've got the duct tape.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:51

So that's my theory about the duct tape.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:52

I don't think it was used for suffocation.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:54

I can do is used for keeping her quiet, but then if she was already dead, why

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:58:58

would they need to keep her quiet?

Brittney Sherman: 00:59:00

If you think it's to help keep her quiet.

Brittney Sherman: 00:59:02

And I don't think you actually might be honest something because that

Brittney Sherman: 00:59:06

might play into one of the other theories is that there were traces of

Brittney Sherman: 00:59:11

chloroform found in the car chloroform.

Brittney Sherman: 00:59:17

I don't think a common thing to keep around the house.

Brittney Sherman: 00:59:21

It's

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:59:21

not.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:59:22

And they found searches on the computer that she had looked up how

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:59:24

to chloroform, how to make chloroform

Brittney Sherman: 00:59:28

also how to suffocate a child and get away with it.

Brittney Sherman: 00:59:33

I'm not saying that verbatim, but that's just what it was.

Brittney Sherman: 00:59:35

She legitimately search for that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:59:38

She's such an idiot, like why you don't need to look that up?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:59:43

What is the word?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:59:43

Bull.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 00:59:44

Okay.

Brittney Sherman: 00:59:49

We're jumping backwards a little bit.

Brittney Sherman: 00:59:51

Now.

Brittney Sherman: 00:59:52

She erased her internet searches.

Brittney Sherman: 00:59:57

The day that Kaylee went missing the family's computer internet.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:00:03

How would she know how to do that?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:00:05

She doesn't know how to do that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:00:06

Come

Brittney Sherman: 01:00:06

on.

Brittney Sherman: 01:00:07

She had two years of doing nothing.

Brittney Sherman: 01:00:08

She probably played around on the computer.

Brittney Sherman: 01:00:09

She had a MySpace page in 2008.

Brittney Sherman: 01:00:12

No one was on and

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:00:15

I don't know.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:00:16

Maybe she didn't know how, so then how do they find those searches,

Brittney Sherman: 01:00:20

forensic, whatever.

Brittney Sherman: 01:00:23

So

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:00:23

she raised it and then they actually don't deeper.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:00:25

Exactly.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:00:26

And that's the part that's weird to me because that's one of those

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:00:28

moments where simply wait until like, you know, oh, I was actually looking

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:00:32

for chlorophyll from the dogs and it came up with chloroform and I'm

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:00:34

like, oh my God, lady, did you just

Brittney Sherman: 01:00:36

take credit for that stupid?

Brittney Sherman: 01:00:37

I actually stand corrected the night.

Brittney Sherman: 01:00:39

It wasn't erased.

Brittney Sherman: 01:00:40

The day that Kaylee went missing, it wasn't a risk.

Brittney Sherman: 01:00:43

The day that Kaylee was reported.

Brittney Sherman: 01:00:47

A month later.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:00:48

Uh, but who day?

Brittney Sherman: 01:00:51

Right?

Brittney Sherman: 01:00:51

Because Casey

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:00:52

didn't live with live at the home.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:00:53

That would have been Cindy and uh, oh, would she, as a grown ass woman have

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:00

to look up how to smother a child.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:02

She's not looking that up, Cindy.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:03

Yeah.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:04

She's snow.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:05

And she's erasing it for her.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:06

And for Casey.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:06

Yes.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:07

You think Sidney knew how to figure out what the history

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:10

would be if Casey erased it?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:11

Like, what we're saying is Cindy erased it Sydney, or I don't know

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:14

if Cindy would know how to do that.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:15

Would

Brittney Sherman: 01:01:15

she?

Brittney Sherman: 01:01:16

What about George?

Brittney Sherman: 01:01:18

Me, but

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:19

I don't think George likes Casey.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:24

She, I mean, she really, but you know, what was weird about her?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:28

They, they appear to have a good relationship Jordan, when she's there

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:32

at the jail and they're talking to her and she's like, you know, the one

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:34

thing I miss most was talking to you and I'm like, man, you're talking about

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:39

later, like 10 minutes later, when you're accusing him of like molesting

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:42

you, what, what happened there?

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:44

You know, he's your best friend right here.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:46

And then, you know, if it serves your purpose, you can say that he molested you.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:50

It's really, really weird.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:52

And I think that was the last straw for George is he's like, I

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:01:56

have been so good to you and so tolerant, and this is how you treat

Brittney Sherman: 01:01:58

me.

Brittney Sherman: 01:01:59

Yeah.

Brittney Sherman: 01:02:06

I think that's probably a good spot for us to call it for Casey Anthony.

Brittney Sherman: 01:02:11

We really dug deep into what the evidence was and all of the things

Brittney Sherman: 01:02:16

that led up to the trial, including some of the things with the trial.

Brittney Sherman: 01:02:20

I think for the next episode, we'll probably dive into really what our

Brittney Sherman: 01:02:23

theories are and what some of the theories of the prosecution and what

Brittney Sherman: 01:02:29

the defense ended up going with.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:02:31

Exactly.

Sonia Meza-Leon: 01:02:32

So stay tuned, parlor, Scarlet podcasters.

Brittney Sherman: 01:02:35

All right.

Brittney Sherman: 01:02:36

Thanks for joining us a special shout out to John McGrew for our theme song

Brittney Sherman: 01:02:41

and Juan Mesa Leone for our artwork.

Brittney Sherman: 01:02:45

Be sure to follow us on twitter@scarletpodcastandshootusanemailatscarletmurderpodcastsatgmail.com.