After 25 years as a chiropractor, Dr. Tom Garcia, 63, fully stepped into his shamanic Self. He sold his practice and now serves the world as a Shamanic Teacher and Guide.Tom helps people from every walk of life to reclaim the sacred via fire ceremonies, fire medicine circles and wellness retreats.

How do you embrace your shamanic nature? What sort of courage is required to “come out” as a shaman? How does our exploration of the sacred impact everyone in our lives?

www.reclaimthesacred.com/

I started going to the woods, making fire doing ceremony in a very rudimentary way. And it eventually it evolved and it got deeper until I understood that there was something coming through me. You know, there was a voice very clearly a voice that speaks to me in a ceremony that comes through me. So that's what I do now is create sacred space for people to do the deep work of recovering the memory of who they are and their deepest purpose.

Hey, this is Achim Nowak, executive coach and host of the MY FOURTH ACT podcast. It flies life is a five act play. How will you spend your FOURTH ACT? I have conversations with exceptional humans who have created bold and unexpected fourth acts, listen, and to be inspired. And please rate us and subscribe on whatever platform you're listening on. Let's get started. I am just delighted to welcome Dr. Tom Garcia to the My fourth act podcast. After 25 years as a chiropractor, Tom Garcia fully stepped into his shamanic self. He sold his practice and now serves the world as a shamanic teacher, healer and guide. Calm helps people from every walk of life to reclaim the sacred via fire ceremonies, fire medicine circles, and wellness retreats, we have so much to talk about Tom. So welcome.

Thank you again. I'm excited to be here.

I'm excited that you are here. And my first thought is because I start every conversation with going back to what somebody wanted to be in their childhood. And I'm pretty sure you didn't run around as a little boy saying I want to be a shaman. So when you were a young boy growing up in Mama, dad asked you Hey, what do you want to be Tom? What were you thinking?

What immediately comes to mind is I wanted to be an astronomer. Haha. And as soon as I found out it took a lot of math. And I already wasn't good at math. Yeah, I put that on the shelf. Then I didn't know what I wanted to be. Yeah.

So did you feel pressured to pick something because you know, many moments does go your way you need to go to college? And did they have ideas of what they wanted you to be?

No, I came from a broken family. You know, seven kids, I was the oldest, my dad was mostly absent. My mom raised us on our own. And I remember when I was out of high school, 18 years old, I'm like, I don't know what I want to do. I actually a year later, I joined the military. I joined the Navy, and I wanted to be a navy seal. I got rolled out of the out of buds training because of my eyesight. And so that path close, but actually, it's a good thing. I mean, I was driven in that way as a young man, you know, wanting to test the extremes and feel my own, feel my own it's kind of a thing. But when I after I got out of the service, you know, I banged around for a bit, finally went back to school and decided to become a chiropractor.

I don't want to play armchair psychologist, but I'm struck by your attraction to extreme things like the navy seals, that's kind of extreme. Astronomy is kind of extreme. Not everybody's into astronomy. How did you end up thinking about it being a chiropractor, where did that come from?

The first memory I have of it is going to the chiropractor's office with my mom. I was still in the service at the time, I was home on leave. And I remember looking at the rack of the display of catalogs for a school, and I started flipping through them and I'm like, Oh, my, like this is right up my alley. But in my mind, I didn't think I had the academic fortitude. Yeah, I put it off, you know, until finally when I went back to school in my late 20s. I decided, if I'm going to do anything, I might as well do what I really want. And that's when I decided to pursue Chiropractic and I never looked back. And I struggled through all the math, the science, you know, physics, chemistry, and all that. And then once I got the chiropractic school, I just simply did not look back.

I think of chiropractic as being so much about the body. But the body is the conduit to the spirit, which is really where you play a lot more these days. So in my mind, they're actually all connected. So when you were doing chiropractic work, were you always your consciousness connecting to emotions and spirit or things like that, and the clients you were serving?

Yes, I got into that pretty early on, just through my own study, prior to going to chiropractic school. And once I got there, I was at a school that really emphasized the philosophy of the brain body connection and that sort of thing. So it was right up my alley that way. And then when I started working with people, I realized very quickly that the conditions that people presented with were they began in the mind Did they manifest it through the body? Yeah, so I was very much connected to working with people, you know, mentally, spiritually, as well as physically, although my mo was to adjust, right, just the spine, clear out the nervous system. And that led me to where I am today, because I knew as a stepping stone, even early on, when I graduated school, I remember just knowing this is a stepping stone to something else. And I didn't know what, and I didn't know how long it would take. So even though like 15 years into chiropractic, and I realized there was something more for me, and I don't know what it is. And it was a bit frustrating. It was a bit, you know, just like what am I supposed to be doing really, you know, for a lot of chiropractors, that's it for them that this is their calling, this is their, you know, their life's work. And I knew for me, there was something else, you know, do something else, something more. And, and it's what I'm doing now working with people in the way that I do in a deep coaching capacity, if you will.

Yes. And because you have chosen to use the word shaman. It's a word I'm very familiar with, I feel connected to native traditions where shamans are revered people in this serve. And if I misrepresent this correctly, there are intentional healers, and they're revered in that capacity. So use the word coach, and I know you do coaching, but your public identity, you know, you choosing to say that you're a shaman, which I applaud you for. Yeah, but help our listeners understand. So how did the doors to even seeing yourself as a shaman open for you? How did that happen?

That's a short question to a long answer.

I'll take the long answer. But it's a great question.

So part of my story is about 13 years ago, and my friend just passed away. 12 years ago, yesterday, I took a friend into my into our home, my wife and I, and took care of him. He spent the last 18 months of his life in our home and his withdraw from life, and to observe for me to observe that so close up into love the man as much as I did, as a brother, as a friend, some kind of spirit companion. It did something to me. It was unpredictable, unexpected, and it just sent me off on a path that I had no, I couldn't see coming. Although I could feel I was being moved towards something, what actually happened, I did not see coming, I started going to the woods, making fire doing ceremony in a very rudimentary way. And it eventually it evolved. And it got deeper until I understood that there was something coming through me, you know, there was a voice very clearly a voice that speaks to me a ceremony that comes through me. So that's what I do now is create sacred space for people to do the deep work of recovering the memory of who they are and their deepest purpose to bring that back into their lives to their relationships, their family, their work, every aspect of their life. And shaman, I didn't even really know what a shaman was my guides and I just call him my guides. Yeah, he told me maybe 10 years ago, you're a shaman. That's what you are. And I'm like, What is that my man was looking at sideways. I don't even want to call myself that because I knew in some traditions, people don't call themselves shamans, they don't claim that title. Yeah. So it took me many years to even begin to identify that way, like you say, because it's really the one word that describes most closely what I do, you know, because I work elementally, fire, air, water and earth, and spirit, I stay close to the earth that keeps me grounded plant medicine ceremony, all these things tie in together with my work. And so I finally was able to just claim my identity, your respective anybody had to say about it, which is actually my work, to claim who you are to reclaim your identity, irrespective of what anybody has to say about it, deepen and strengthen your connection to source to spirit, irrespective of what anyone has to say about it. You know, like that. I'm like, adamant about it. And I had to take my own medicine before I could teach her or work with other people in that capacity,

while you're so beautifully describing what I would call walking into deeper understanding of a whole other level of reality that you hadn't been conscious of before. And what I was curious about, you know, heard you speak about going to the woods and making fires. Did you know on any level that you were recreating ancient rituals at that time, or where did that consciousness come to you later where you go, Oh, this is what I'm doing. This just means.

Yeah, I had no idea. I had some inkling, but I really didn't know I'm making these little fires and I would kneel and pray. You know, I'd open my journal now. You know, I grew up Catholic but I just devout myself of any religious identity years ago when I was still a teenager. So what I did I just call it I did pray, and I journaled, and eventually a voice came to me very clearly, it was my voice, but it wasn't my voice. And it, it speaks to me as it does today, you know, in a very clear counter, like, I recognize the sound of that voice, and took some time because I worked alone and I worked. Early in the morning, before sunrise, or at night, after the sun went down, I worked at night, and I had no distraction, and it was just me in the woods making fire like this. And it eventually began to dawn on me that what I was doing was ancient, and primal, and I was connecting to something very primal, very fundamental, I actually call myself a fundamentalist, you know, I'm working on the earth, at the fire. And it's just the spirit in me, you know, and then when I started bringing people to the fire, because as my guides told me, these messages we give you this work is not just for you, you have to share it. I was like, me, like, I'm just a guy, you know, I don't even know what I'm doing. But I got over myself, and I had to, I had to get over the limitations of my ego enough, be able to extend myself to other people, authentically, with confidence, being true to myself to say, Come join me, you know, people naturally are attracted to the fire. And some of the work that's that's occurred, in my work with people has been extraordinary.

I just want to offer an example from my life, and then I'm going to really bring it back to you. So I remembers my first conscious experience, knowing the elements standing in a Brook in Arizona, and I'm standing in the water and I see for power animals appear around me, and and I, intellectually, I knew they weren't there. But they were there. I felt their presence, their energy, I could see them. At the time. I didn't know anything about power animals. But that was, it was undeniable. I knew I crossed a bridge to another world that could not be denied. I'm telling you this because I'd love you to tell our listeners. At what point did you get to that bridge where you went, I can't deny this reality is there. I'm not making this up. And I need to go deeper with it.

I would say it was about a year in. But it still it took me many years to really become comfortable to any degree with what was happening. What I say like what was happening to me like something was happening to me, but it was something I also induced, I invited it there were times when I would I'm like, why are you telling me these things? Because I journaled everything. I have stacks of journals of all my experiences in the woods, all my journeys. And what my guide said is, you ask we answer, and that's how it works. And when we find even one, who will listen, we have a lot to say, and when one so as sincerely as you has asked, we answer you. So I understood, I am never alone, we are never alone, we were always watched over guided and protected. And that answers to our dilemmas are within just a breath away, all we have to do is ask for help. And helpful is there.

So there's so many reasons why I love having this conversation with you. But on a very pragmatic level. You know, you are a well established chiropractor. That's a traditional, well respected profession. And then at some point, you actually ended up selling your practice and started to say, No, I'm doing this now. Yeah. And stepping into something that some people might question that people might be afraid of. How did you know to go from one place to the other? Can you just walk us through that?

Well, they'll call it been coming for many years now that this point where I'm and it was a matter of trusting myself enough to make the leap. And I was in my practice, I actually practiced right within the confines of the community of a Native American tribe, saltier. So I put myself at this environment into this environment where it was the last 10 years of my practice, where there was a lot of spiritual native energy around me. I also knew that in many ways I didn't belong. So I felt very much protected. in that environment. I burned Sage I did prayers, I smudge you know, I blessed my office every day and kept myself clear and that way. I'm imagining this must help you for a lot of people when you realize it's time for me to move on. And I don't know how and I started to feel stuck. And I remember the day I felt trapped I was like, Oh, no, that is not good. Yeah, something needs to happen. Is it long story short, a woman chiropractor who covered my practice a few years back, she came to my office. And one day to sit down and talk, she asked me is your practice for sale? And I said it is now. And just like that, yeah, we entered into the negotiations and completed because I expressed to her, you know, it's time for me to move on to the next evolution of my life. And we we just had this deep conversation, and that's when she asked is your practice for sale? And I'm like, Yes, it is now. So we completed that transfer. And I stepped more fully into what I'm doing, which was getting. Now I didn't even know what I had. Did I could invite other people to participate in on a larger scale in a much bolder way to say, you know, I take on clients, you know, like that, because I until this point, I had not. And then, what was just the process, I started doing that. People asked to work with me, and I considered and I said, Okay, now I'm very clear, you know, I work with people. My first priority is you have to be a pleasure for me to work with. Yeah, because we're going to be going to some deep places together. So it makes sense that we enjoy one another's company. I don't work with tourists or dilla, tansen. In the respect of they're just,

I applaud you for saying that.

Yeah, I mean, I got real clear button. Actually, my guidance would correct Of course, me when I started the golden to that like that, and to say, Okay, now I work with people who are committed to work for a year or more. And we go like that. So I've been doing this for many years now. But I had to make that step. It seemed like a big step, it was a small step in reality, and then trust myself enough to follow the prompts, call in the resources and the people which just naturally they seem to flow to me, which I say, when you are on your path, when you're in alignment with your higher purpose. Many people can attest to this, who our resources appear, universe lines up behind you like that. And that's what happened.

Well, and I so love that example of Wonder Woman chiropractor asked the question, and you said it is now. And I think for many of us, there is a possibility, it is now moments if we are willing to see them and embrace them and walk into them, right? Yeah. Word from your sponsor. That's me. I invite you to go to the website associated with this podcast www.my, fourth act.com, you will find other equally inspiring conversation with great humans. And you will also learn more about the my fourth act mastermind groups where cool people figure out how to chart their own fourth acts, please check it out. And now back to the conversation. I want to talk about your clients and how you serve them. Now I just went aside, I, again, I really just applaud you and this follower listeners is the clearer I was about defining the nature of my service, which is how long it needs to be and who I want to serve, then those people show up. And if you don't define it, they don't show up, you know, so our clarity brings them in. But this thought I do want to just get into this before we get into your work, which is you are married, you have children. I could just imagine. And this is many religions, when one partner goes into a deep journey of personal exploration and unfolding that can kick in a lot of stuff for the spouse and the children. So how did your family constellation play with all of this? Would you describe that to us?

Yeah, we had four kids. And at the time I was going off the rails here. We had a couple who are single digits and preteen and teenagers and then my wife You know, she was home state you know, she took care of the house and the kids and a lot of you know, as a partner does and so we were well matched. But when I started going off like I was she didn't really know what was happening to me. I would to the best of my ability explain to her and there was at one point, you know, she's just like, I don't know that I like you going off into the woods alone like this. Later I'm like, kind of I feel like you told me you don't like my friends. But my friends like you. There was another time I said, I don't know I'm maybe I'm having a midlife crisis. I don't know if it's either this or blonding in a Corvette. She said, I like this better. And I So in that respect to my sense of people, as men and women, when they're having those, like a spiritual crisis in their lives. I was about 50 The late 40s when this started going on, it could lead to a lot of things. alcohol, drugs, infidelity, some crazy, you know, tangential pursuit. For me, I just went like, in way deep, which I think I was oriented. To do that already.

That's probably helpful for our listeners to know that you live in beautiful part of Colorado, Western Southwestern Colorado. Split close to lots of old spirit energy. Yeah, you were in sacred ground in a way?

Yes. Let me say this about where we live. Yeah. And what I say about it, we live in a massive corridor of ancient energy, that's about 100 miles long, and roughly 20 miles or more wide. So and, in here, our ruins and the ceremonial grounds, the hunting grounds, the burial grounds of the tribes that roam these lands, and the you tribe, or the tribe that most say, most recently, in less over 100 years, this land all belong to them. And they've been pushed off under reservations. So I feel in many ways, my own tribal heritage, migrated this way from the LA basin, they found maps and stories of my own tribe migrating this way. And I understood on a deep level, there's a part of me that is at home here, that even when I was in my teens, I was called to this place, even though I didn't know what direct I didn't know where Durango was, go springs were bayfield was Rick Nashville. And so here I am, in the midst of this ancient tribal energy, if you will, Primal energy, I feel like in many ways, it grabbed me by the scruff of the neck and said, You're here to work. And what I do on the land, you know, we talk about identity and claiming one's identity. There are three questions that are asked of one at the fire. And I believe my sense of it is it's the fire that asks the questions. And those questions are, who are you? Why are you here? And who sent you? And those are the questions that were asked to me. And I deeply, deeply worked to answer those questions to the best of my ability and to strengthen my connection with the who, like, who sent me. So when I bring people to the fire, that's the curriculum, essentially, we can spend a lot of time you know, going deep around that to come back with something that can be translated into life, beautiful way, in a beautiful way.

Well, the question mean, since you use the word fundamental, these are fundamental questions, right? But the one who sent you. And I think the sense in which you ask it, it's open to time travel, spirit, all sorts of things that we normally don't contemplate, right? You open the door to a larger connection to everything around us with that question. Yeah. Can you give us a sense? Because I haven't been to one of your fire ceremonies? Or and our listeners haven't. And I'm so want to be very banal, like, how long you sit around the fire? And how does the conversation flow, if you just give us a little snapshot of what a fire gathering of fire ceremony what it would actually look like? How many people are there?

Yeah, so all the elements of the ceremony that come to me, they've come in bit by bit. So it's not a traditional ceremony by any means. I have no worries or concerns around anybody of a Native Heritage would look at this and say, You stole our traditions. It's not that it's it's self generated, then there are parts there are aspects that are very recognizable. So having said that, you know, I have places on the land, right, I've created a stone circle, inside of which is the fire pit, and places to sit around the fire mostly stones, big rocks that I've hauled in by hand, and arranged in such a way you can sit on the rock or pull up a tree stump. And I begin by laying down the circle. So I use language we all recognize, to reclaim the power and the meaning of the words that I say like peace and understanding, love, joy, wisdom, guidance, clarity, like that. And I go all the way around the circles with cornmeal, salt and tobacco to set a soft boundary blessing with offering to the earth, you know, as a conscious symbol of my intention. And what I say about what I do, it's all symbolic. Yeah, it's all symbolic. And if you took it all away, there's still power because it's what I bring, it's what you bring, and it's, it's our connection. I welcome the directions very consciously, and almost every time it brings tears to my eyes, as I'm calling in each of the four cardinal directions, and the above In the below in the spirit of the land, and honoring the spirit of the place, and read I use rattles I rattle in a prayer is what I call it I welcoming the ancestors welcoming the grandmothers and the grandfathers, Ascended Masters and all of us that what each of us brings what I call our entourage of guides, angels and beings of light. And I also acknowledge the mystery. Those things about which we know nothing but are here with us all the same. I smudge people in with sage and you know, sage and sweet grass and a blessing like that. And then there's a point where I'm like, okay, we're in. This is a time to offer our prayers, our blessings, our gratitude, and our unburdening. To honor one another, to speak our intentions, many times people declaring themselves a new freshly, and I have a basket of sage that I collect from on the land and dry it and actually take the sage, hold it in my understanding is my guides told me, the sage holds our intentions and holds our prayers. And then we offer to the fire and smoke to the Creator. So whenever I listen, I have really expanded listening capacity from listening from listening at the fire, the fire taught me, my experience with the fire taught me how to listen. So when I'm hearing someone speak, and I hear them begin to declare themselves in a way they may not have ever before, I give them the basket of sage and say, here, we're having a moment and then offer up to them to speak themselves into existence. So that I can hear them through their voice, you know, the voice that comes through them, the voice that they have to declare who they are. Now, it could be one on one, it could be a small group of two to five, or six, or it could be a larger group of 30 items and zoom with over 100 people in a similar process where everyone's doing it at home, I can guide them through the process at a distance like that, and you know, they get the fire, they can almost smell the sage, that cedar wood burning is what they told me. So no, it's a very powerful experience like that, that just transcends time and space. You know,

I'm very moved to this as I listen to you. And again, when the phrase to declare ourselves is just gorgeous. Obviously you meaning declare who we really are as guided by outside information rather than our ego limitation. Yes, yes. Like you're describing for us.

Yeah, I want to add something to that too. This is really, really important. Yeah, that I recognize about what I'm doing is, when I take people out of there, when they come, they leave their normal, everyday environment, and they come here, and we go out in the land, just walking from here to the fire circle is your like, going into another time space. And then we come to the fire. We are literally crossing a threshold, it's as if to say, Come with me, we crossed the threshold and close the door. Leave your ego at the door outside. And we're going to come together for a little while without the egos incessant influence so we can discover something about ourselves. And it's such a powerful experience at what people take away, has a lasting effect. It wasn't like Oh, that was nice. We had a fire ceremonially roasted marshmallows or something like that. It's like, No, we did deep work. In usually the arc of a ceremony is an hour and a half to two hours with a group. But I've worked with people where we stay out all night, you know, we sleep on the ground, to stay in the field to stay close to the earth into the next day. And that's, that's transformational right there just overnight like that.

I know you use the word sacred, which is a word that I like very much. Yeah, if you had to give or Hayfield to try to give a definition of what the sacred means to you, to our listeners, what is your understanding of what sacred is and how we know the sacred?

Yeah, this sacred? That's a great question. The sacred is what's, for me, it's what's real and true. It's the essence of the spirit and all things which makes everything sacred. But we don't often think that way. We don't often move through the world in that way. And so part of the reclamation, reclaiming the sacred is to call back to take back the very language and redefine it for ourselves or apprehend the definition as it was originally intended. So I'm sacred, your sacred because of who we are, because of what we bring. It's the spirit of what's in us, that makes us sacred. That's probably the best definition I could give you. And that's good, although we are and what we bring that's sacred. That intelligence that's within us is sacred. I had the experience of being with someone this last weekend who was an avowed atheist. I was curious as hell. He was loud about it. I'm like, right? Well, that's a clue. I mean, he was like, I hadn't seen him in 25 years. And he was adamant about his atheistic beliefs. And so I was browsing them a little bit. I'm like, so what do you believe? Because that's the point. I don't believe in anything. It's all superstition. I'm like, That's very interesting. And I wasn't like holding them in judgment. I'm just like, I'd like to talk to you some more to find out about that, you know, but what I'm saying is, even in that, I think we run up against language, and people's, how they describe what they're experiencing. Anyway, I don't know where there is to go with that with an atheist. No,

no, no, no, it doesn't matter. But I words don't always adequately describe an experience that is larger than a single word, right? You are the opener to experiences that are larger than a word can contain. Right?

Yes. And that man is welcome to come to my fire, to bring his his belief, his disbelief. He's whatever, bring it to the fire. You know, I'd be happy to sit with that and explore.

Now, you mentioned in passing, when we started plant medicine, and plant medicine, some of it has become, in recent years popularized again and glamorized in some ways. Yeah. So I would just love to hear whether you work with plant medicine, what your experiences are and what you think of it.

Yeah, so I've worked with plant medicine for the last 15 years. And I consider it a sacrament. I work with it only in a ceremonial way. And there's lots of different forms of plant medicine, you know, the silicides, mushroom, San Pedro, I Alaska. But the silicides mushroom is my medicine. You know, I'm very protective of it very circumspect about it, and who I work with in that way, you know, there's a vetting process around that. Like, and like I said, tourists and dilettantes for me, and it's only in a ceremonial way. And most people don't experience it that way. Many people I know, they say, I've never heard of it that I've never done it that way. Well, it's a whole different experience.

What does that mean ceremonial way? I have my own sense. But I'd like to do it. Could you actually explain what that means to you?

Yeah, well, just like I describe the ceremony that I would do with one or many people. It's setting that it's that kind of a setting, it's creating sacred space right? Inside of which we work with the sacrament in a way that opens us up to something that we might not otherwise be able to see in ordinary consciousness. I worked alone that way for 10 years. And I would not recommend it. I don't know that anybody would recommend it. But that's the only way I could work alone, I'd go out, stay out all night, and come back. With a journal filled with my experience of it, what happened? And I think it's, and so working ceremonially, ceremonially, also is to work close, stay close to the earth, stay close to the fire, stay close, Ella mentally. So I'm great. I'm well grounded, and well grounded in a spiritual sense. When I call in the ancestors, when I call in my guides and angels, when I call in the grandmothers and grandfathers. I know, I am surrounded and protected inside of a space where I'm vulnerable, I'm more open, like like that. And I've had many, many mystical experiences of being visited at the fire, just like you said, power animals coming. I've been visited in such a way that I understood. I'm working at a very deep level, in a way with the fire in with with ceremony that opens into other other realms, other areas of consciousness, other aspects of reality, and I take that very seriously. And I'm extraordinarily protective of it. But also willing to share it, you know, and for people that are doing the deepest work of their lives. I can help because I've been there and like, it's like this. I know the path. I know the way to a certain point. It's like going to the edge of the forest. And then there's your path. There's gonna be some bushwhacking. Yeah, we'll do it together, you know? So there's some bushwhacking involved is what I told you.

I got you. And I'm glad you mentioned that. You told me you're turning 63 Are you having a 63rd birthday, in a week, in a week by the time this airs, but by the time we released this, you will be 63. You're at a stage in your life where, if I mischaracterized the scrutiny you are you have already very fully embraced the healer shaman in you, and I'm sure you discovering more constantly about how that all plays out. If you were to look ahead and say, these are some things I would like to have more of, in my life, these are things I would like to have less of. And I know we don't control the future. But but but what comes to mind. For Tom?

Well, the first thing that comes to mind is sharing my experiences sharing my, I can't even say it's mine, there's a certain spiritual, philosophical aspect to share with people that could make a difference. And to have that in several books, there's more than one book in me, and it's likely that most of it is written, I have to call it out of my journals, I've actually been working on it that for the last couple years, clarifying my ability to you know, message and communicate and like that, and then I want to spend more time with my wife, traveling and just having time with our kids, you know, so freed up like that, I think for a lot of folks, that stage of life, it's more freedom, more capacity to move about, but also, in terms of my life's work, and my, the rest of the time that I have on the planet, to courageously and boldly and deeply go to those places that I'm led to, and come back with things of value to share with people and to take others with me. There are many people now that are like, we want to go with you. They you know, they trust me and I it's not something I take lightly, it took me a long time to trust myself enough to engender that kind of trust from others. So yeah, like that, in my guides have said, you know, as far as get busy, you don't have much time. And don't worry about what that means. So for me, that could mean who knows, five years, 10 years, 31 a month, a day,

Well, we live in the here and now. So it doesn't matter?

Yeah, and bring forth the best that I have to offer every day. See my kids into their, the trajectory of their own lives in a good way. And enjoyed the heck out of life while I'm here?

Yes, thank you. Based on what you know, now, at a week shy of 63, if you had a chance to whisper some words of wisdom to your young version, you know, when you talked about it was a rough household, you were the oldest of seven. And this is not about changing the trajectory of your life. But what kind of wisdom would you impart to young Tom or anybody that age if you had the chance to do

so I'll tell you something, I had a friend when I was 13, working in a restaurant, and met a woman who was a waitress, she was 21. We've been friends for 50 years. It wasn't a romantic relationship. Now you just put me under her wing. And she said to me, always seek for the meaning of life, within the silence of your own heart. In other words, be the best you. That's a very good thing to be. And I took those words and I internalize them based share this with her not long ago, I said, How could you know that at 13, I would internalize those words and spend the rest of my life living them out. And so I would tell a younger me trust the way you're on a good path. And it's all gone. We're

toggling beautiful words to end this conversation on. I do want to, I can't imagine lead listeners are curious about. So where does he do his work? Can I do a fire ceremony with him? Where do people go to get more information about the beautiful work you do that you just described?

Well then go to my website, which is www.reclaimedthesacred.com. And like any website, you know, it's always needs improvement. But I think it captures the essence of who I am, what I do, and certainly in all my contact information is there. You can call me text me, email me. I'd be happy to engage and explore Whatever you're looking for, you know,

well thank you for the gift of you and thank you for opening the door to both the work you do but your own journey into getting there. That was really beautiful.

Thank you so much just for the opportunity to connect with you like this beautiful conversation.

To be continued. Bye bye.

Okay audios.

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