In this enlightening episode, we engage in a profound discussion with the esteemed author Vincent Genovese, who reflects upon the remarkable narrative of the Pottsville Maroons and their contentious claim to the 1925 NFL championship. The episode elucidates the intricate details surrounding the Maroons' historical achievements, emphasizing the pivotal role played by their coach, Doc Striegel, and the subsequent challenges they faced due to an exhibition game that led to their disqualification. We delve into the rich tapestry of football history, exploring the complexities of fairness and recognition within the sport, particularly concerning the legacy of players like Tony Latone and Gary Collins. Our dialogue not only highlights the nuances of the Maroons' story but also underscores the broader implications of historical justice within the realm of American football. Join us as we navigate this compelling journey, shedding light on the often-overlooked figures and events that have shaped the fabric of the game we cherish.

Find Vince's book THE POTTSVILLE MAROONS AND THE NFL’S STOLEN CHAMPIONSHIP OF 1925

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You're in for a great episode tonight as we have an author that inspired me, and he's going to talk about a player that inspired him.

Vincent Genovese joins us up right after this.

This is the Pigskin Daily History Dispatch, a podcast that covers the anniversaries of.

American football events throughout history.

Your host, Darren Hayes, is podcasting from America's North Shore to bring you the memories of the gridiron one day at a time.

Hello, my football friends.

This is Darren Hayes of pigskindispatch.com welcome once again to the Pig Pen, your portal deposit of football history.

And boy, do we have a great episode for you tonight.

We're going to talk to one of the authors that influenced Jeff and I when we wrote our book, Marooned.

Great resource.

I got to meet this gentleman just a few weeks ago, and he's going to.

We're going to talk a little bit about his book and about a person he thinks should be in the hall of Fame, and his name is Vince Genovese.

Vince, welcome to the Pig Pen.

Good to be here, Vince.

First, maybe you could tell us about your Pottsville book.

First of all, why don't you give us a title and where folks can get a copy?

Yes.

His took a different approach than mine.

Mine was more of a historical approach.

Okay.

Because in Pottsville, that's what they claim, that the championship championship was stolen.

Maybe a quick run through what happened.

Sure.

He put together a team, and.

The.

Doctor was a wise man.

He raided some other teams.

He got some All American college players, and he got some local people who were good athletes, including even two that were coal miners.

Okay.

So he put the team together.

First two games, they won handily.

The third game was up in Providence, and it was a washout.

Terribly muddy, field raining.

The game was nothing but fumble after fumble.

And unfortunately, near the end of the game, fumble was picked up by the Providence team and they scored a touchdown.

And Pottsville ends up losing six nothing.

They later got revenge on that one because they won their next five games in a row and blanked.

Everybody shut them out and they ended up including Providence.

So they ended up playing Frankfurt.

And Frankfurt beat them.

That was their second loss.

And at that point it looked like their chances for the championship were starting to wane.

Okay.

They basically had a win every game they played.

Okay, the next three games in particular within seven days.

And it was right around Thanksgiving and they were up to the task of they beat last year's NFL champions.

The.

I seem.

I'm losing my memory there.

Well, Canton, I believe.

Okay, Cleveland Bulldogs, I guess they were at that point.

And they played Cleveland and beat them too.

And they beat Green Bay and then they came back and they beat Frankfurt.

Okay, so now they were in the driver's seat and the commissioner, Joe Carr, ordered them to go out to Chicago and play the Chicago Cardinals for the championship.

So Pottsville hops on a train and takes a practically a full day ride out to Chicago.

And the next day they played Chicago.

18 degrees, 30 mile an hour wind, snow coming horizontally in off the lake.

The original Ice Bowl, I think.

And they actually humbled the Cardinals and beat them.

And the next day it was in every newspaper in the country.

Boxville wins the NFL championship.

So a few days later, Boxville played an exhibition game down in the Philadelphia area against the Four Horsemen of Notre Dame and a team of college all Stars.

And people have to keep in mind that during that era, college football was considered superior to professional football.

So this was quite a matchup.

And anyway, the commissioner warned Doc Striegel three times, do not play this game, okay?

Because you're in somebody else's territory.

And Doc Striegel, he wouldn't listen.

And of course it's speculation whether he was that bound by his agreement to play this team, signed a contract, etc.

Or there's also rumors that he was bleeding money from all the players that he, you know, took from other teams and paid them more than actually what the NFL was allowing you to pay.

He was picking up all the expenses for the team by himself.

But anyway, he went ahead and he played the game.

And they actually at halftime got a telegram from Commissioner Carr telling them that they are no longer in the NFL and they're no longer champions.

Okay?

So they went out the second half and pulled it together and they beat this Four Horsemen College all star team and defeated them.

Last minute field goal by Charlie Berry, a member of the Maroons.

And basically since then, Pottsville has been fighting to get that championship back.

They were saying they were robbed.

It wasn't fair.

Okay.

What happened next was there was a meeting and.

Well, I guess I should back up just to the the actual season in the NFL wasn't over until Dec. 20, okay?

So in the interim from playing that game to December 20th, just about anything could happen.

Teams could schedule more games if they wanted or whatever possible.

Basically was champion for six days until they got that telegram from the commissioner, okay?

So in my book, I argue sort of down the middle, I argue why many people think it was unfair that they were stripped of the championship.

And I also give.

I wouldn't say argue, but I give facts that show how maybe they did get mistreated, okay?

And I'll just briefly point out a couple of them.

In the beginning, when Joe Carr got rid of him, he was a commissioner, okay?

So he had the ultimate power to do what he wanted.

And there was an unwritten rule about invading someone else's territory, okay?

But it was not in writing, but it was understood, okay, that you didn't do that.

And by the time the season ended, Botswell was no longer in the NFL.

They had been booted out.

So they really don't have much of a case.

However, on the other hand, since there was nothing in writing, it was just a spoken rule that could have meant anything, okay?

And Doc Striegel met with the commissioner, with his brother George, who was an attorney, to try and plead their case, okay?

And Joe Carr would not back down.

But the one thing that is a little unfair is, okay, they invaded someone's territory, so they must be punished.

But was the punishment appropriate?

Okay?

I mean, sometimes teams get fined, sometimes they get have to forfeit a game, but this, he literally threw them out of the NFL, okay?

Which a lot of people are saying that it's a pretty radical punishment, okay?

Was that justified?

You know, and it goes back to the old adage, of course, of, you know, what happens on the field should never be changed by what happens off the field, okay?

On the field, in a fair game, possible, you know, pretty much destroyed the Cardinals and were the champs, you know, so how can you take that away from them when the next thing that happened was had nothing to do.

They were miles away from Chicago.

They were in Philadelphia, right?

So in a way, Doc Skrigel has to bear some responsibility for what happened.

And on the other hand, the commissioner appeared to have acted arbitrarily and a little.

A little too severe, okay, for the circumstances.

Bottom line, at the team meeting, there were 17 teams in the NFL that year.

There was a real brouja from what I found in the research between the owners.

And at one point, they thought they might have to call the cops to Calm people down, but they finally settled everybody down.

And I believe the last motion, okay.

Which was carried, was to not name a champion that year.

Okay.

Now, a little later on, Pottsville was reinstated into the NFL, okay.

And they had to pay Frankfurt a fine of $2,500.

And, you know, everything was supposedly hunky dory then after that.

Okay.

Now, when Possible was reinstated, I believe most people believe that meant the championship, too.

Right.

But they didn't award one that night.

And lo and behold, in the 30s, the Cardinals ended up claiming that championship.

And much to the dismay of the Pottsville Maroons, they said, well, you know, there was no champion that year.

If anybody, it was Spotsville.

How can you claim to them?

So there's been an ongoing fight for 100 years now with the NFL to try and get back that stolen championship.

Yeah, very well said.

That's a.

It was quite a event that happened 100 years ago.

And.

And that's where you and I got to meet face to face.

Yeah, right.

A very nice banquet that we attended.

And they had several speakers there, former NFL players.

And, of course, there was some.

Some good discussions back and forth about, you know, who was right, who was wrong here.

You know, I think both sides need to share a little bit of the responsibility.

The important thing that I hope comes out of this at some point is that maybe the best running back, and this includes Jim Brown, okay.

In the NFL was a man named Tony Latone on the Fossil Maroons team.

His stats are unbelievable.

His stats are even better than Red Granges.

Okay?

And Red Grange once asked at a banquet who was the toughest guy you ever played against?

And he didn't hesitate for a second.

He said, tony Latone from the Potshell Maroons.

He was called a human howitzer, and it was one.

He had worked in the mines, came out of the mines and, you know, had a tryout for the Potshell Maroons.

And Doc Striegel took one look at him and fed.

There's my running back right there.

Okay, Sign him up.

And I would hope that someday he would find his way into the hall of Fame because he truly was an outstanding running back.

And it just seems a little unfair, I suspect, because he literally came out of the coal mines and had no pedigree.

I mean, he wasn't from Notre Dame or, you know, Michigan or Penn State.

What have you he was a coal miner.

Okay.

And I think he got overlooked, sort of snubbed, maybe a little bit of haughtiness on the NFL side.

They may not like that comment, but it does, it does cross my mind from time to time.

Okay.

He was nominated.

Okay.

But he, of course was.

Was not voted in.

And to this day, it's still.

One of the things that many people in Pottsville, you know, wish would happen even if they don't get the championship back, is to at least get Tony latone where he belongs in the hall of Fame.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Very deserving person.

Hopefully we'll.

We'll see that bronze bus standing there in Canton.

You know, a family member, his will get a gold jacket to take home.

That would be very.

Just to have that.

But I, I want to commend you on your book.

You know, like I said, Jeff Payne and I, as we were writing the book Marooned, we sort of went.

We went historical Pottsville all the way back, the beginning of their football and sort of took it forward and covered, you know, not only covered the seasons when they played, but we covered sort of the, The.

The aftermath with the Zacho family trying to bring this championship back and petitioning, you know, governors of Pennsylvania and some NFL teams supporting them the whole way through.

So.

But you.

Your book was one of the things, along with Mr. Fleming's book, Breaker Boys, that we referenced a lot along with old newspapers.

But I love the approach I went into writing the book.

You know, I'm on.

I'm from the other side of the corner of the state.

I'm from Erie, so five hour drive down to Pottsville.

And I didn't know much about Pottsville.

I knew about the championship from reading your book and reading Fleming's book.

But just getting into the story, I said, you know, I don't really care who's right or who's wrong.

I just want to get to the.

Try to get to the bottom of see, you know, what.

What really happened here.

And your book gave a very nice account.

Just like you said.

You sat sort of on the fence and gave both sides.

You didn't throw opinion into it, just gave the facts.

And that was really a refreshing story to read.

And I highly recommend for folks to want to read about this and get some good insight.

I think your book was very genuine in that.

So nice job.

Thank you.

Thank you very much for those kind words.

And I was almost remiss until you mentioned it.

Joe Zacho was the driving force in trying to get that championship back.

Okay.

And right up till when he passed away.

Okay.

He spent every waking moment contacting the NFL, contacting Canton hall of Fame, contacting owners of teams, you know, doing everything he could, you know, to get them to see that, hey, Pottsville, you know, should have that championship.

You know, in.

In the reunions that he was putting together.

Get these former players while they were still alive and able to come to.

They gathered in Pottsville a few times to celebrate their team.

This is a real brotherhood these guys had.

Yeah.

And I think they.

They deeply appreciated what he tried to do.

And there were three attempts, basically.

Okay.

That got as far as the NFL officially.

And in each case, they.

Well, the first two they said, you know, they wouldn't even hear.

The third time they did hear it and took a vote.

Okay.

And the Maroons lost.

There were only two teams out of the NFL teams that voted in Maroons favor.

And that was to open it up and look at it.

Not to necessarily give them the championship back, but.

So they.

Three strikes and you're out, I guess.

I don't know.

But not according to the Pottsville fans and according to the historical society here in Pottsville and many of the businessmen and dignitaries.

They're still as pumped up about getting that championship back as they were back when it was discovered in the 40s by a gentleman named Joe Zacho.

Okay.

Yeah.

Now.

Now, are you from the Pottsville area?

Is that your connection?

How.

Why you wrote about the book.

I'm sorry?

I said, are you from the Pottsville area?

Is that what was your motivation, to write the book?

Miles away in Minersville?

Okay.

And of course, their field was called Minersville park, so that was.

Yeah, yeah, it was sort of a shared team.

I actually, our senior year, my high school team played its baseball games in that stadium.

And then.

Oh, really?

That was the last year anything was held there.

They tore it down and now it's a strip mall.

Yeah, I had lunch at a very nice little pizza joint there on the.

It was on the 50 yard line, right?

Yes.

It's very, very good.

Highly recommend it.

Very nice slice of pie there, that's for sure.

And that restaurant supposedly was on the 50 yard line.

Yeah, that was really interesting.

And I didn't know that going in.

I came into town early that day and met a bunch of historians that were taking tours of, you know, various things, mostly football things.

PFRA members and vintage collectors.

We went around and did that.

And I was.

That's where I Met them at.

When I came from Erie that day and they told me, I said, okay, where are we going next?

To see some history.

And they said, well, you're here, you're on the 50 yard line.

I'm like, oh, okay, I'm back.

You did your group tour, the England Brewery?

Yes, I was not there yet, but they toured it right after the Historical Society.

So they did those in the morning, then broke for lunch when I met them.

And then, you know, we went, of course, Minersville park.

And then they ended up going.

We went to Yorkville Fire Department and then they went to one of the, I think Cold Dale Field.

And it's like a park.

Now, I didn't attend that because I was at the banquet with you.

And they went up to Jim Thorpe and saw the, the, the internment and some of the statue.

Yeah, there's a lot of history, both football and otherwise in the county.

And most people that come into town make sure they take that tour, you know.

Yeah, I was kind of upset.

I didn't get, I didn't get the.

I didn't get there early enough to get that drink.

But you, you have another mission besides Pottsville, another football mission that I found very interesting when we were talking back there on August 16th.

And that's a gentleman that you have met and talked to that you feel should maybe have a gold jacket of his own.

Maybe you could tell us about him.

Yes, it's been my latest mission.

Okay.

I haven't written anything for a while.

My last book was about a young man from Minersville by the name of Billy Ulmer who was killed playing a football game at a Binerville stadium and got a broken neck and died.

And over time, people forget, you know.

Right.

Yeah.

I think he deserved a little resurrection, so to speak, of attention because nobody could pay the more price that he paid, you know, by giving his life.

And it was, it was a number one in his class.

Good looking kid.

Everybody loved him.

He was an outstanding athlete in every sport, you know, and that's the last one that I wrote.

But yes, this gentleman here is Gary Clones.

Okay.

He just had a birthday last week.

He's 85.

He played for a little town out on the western end of Schuylkill county called Williamstown.

And over the four years of high school, he started in Every sport for all four years.

And he threw shutouts, okay, in baseball, constantly with scouts in the stand.

And he scored his thousand points in basketball.

And then, of course, in football, he was unstoppable, such that when he graduated, he had over 80 offers.

Okay, on the table.

Wow.

Literally every.

Every college, practically in Pennsylvania.

And then, you know, usc, California and Michigan and Indiana and, you know, all over.

He ended up choosing University of Maryland, and he went there.

And in those days, freshmen weren't allowed to play, okay, varsity.

So his freshman year, he just played on the freshman team.

And they had a very good record.

They won almost all of their games.

And he started to shine.

But the next year, sophomore year was basically his rookie year, okay?

And of course, he nailed down the wide receiver spot and ended up leading the NFL that year in touchdown reception, okay, in his rookie year.

They didn't call it the super bowl then, but it was the NFL championship.

And they played the Baltimore Colts, okay, who had Lenny War, Johnny Unitis, Gino Marchetti, okay?

I mean, they had.

They were favored, of course, you know, heavily favored.

Cleveland played them.

But keep in mind, Cleveland had a guy named Jim Brown, and I hear.

He might have been pretty good.

Yeah, he was pretty good.

And Paul Warfield, who's in the hall of Fame, and Ernie Nevers, okay, who was a bruising running back.

So the end of the first half, nothing, nothing, tie.

They walk off the field, and the coach in Cleveland's locker room says, hey, what the heck do we have to do to win this game?

You know?

And Collins stood up and says, just give me the damn ball, okay?

That's a quote.

And they came out the second half, and Gary ends up catching three touchdown passes, okay?

Wow.

And scoring the only touchdowns, okay, in the game.

The others were field goal, the next point for a 27 to nothing shutout of the Baltimore Colts.

And they win the National Football League championship.

And Gary is voted MVP and given a brand new Corvette to top it off.

Okay?

So over the ensuing years that he played, which was 10 with Cleveland, they went to four NFL championships, you know, quite a bit of it, thanks to him.

Not to make little of Jim Brown either, okay?

But.

But what I did was started to go into the research, okay?

And the committee that picks people for the hall of Fame are very concerned about stats, okay?

Numbers.

And what I found out just kind of knocked my socks off because Gary Collins, when you take his catches and how many touchdowns he made, okay, his catch to touchdown ratio.

It was better than Paul Warfield, who was in the hall of Fame.

Okay.

It was better than Lance Rensel, who was in the hall of Fame.

Okay.

He just, you know, he just did so many great things for four seasons.

He had double figure reception for TDs.

I have in the, you know, in a letter to go to the hall of Fame.

Much more in the way of statistics.

But I don't want to, you know, overkill it or.

Or bore people.

But his statistics, they just make everybody else look.

I mean, they even compared them to Jerry Rice.

Okay.

Yeah, but just to prove your point, I mean, just looking what pro football reference I have is.

Is up, up in the screen right now.

He had 331 receptions in his 10 years.

Okay.

So that's about 33 a year.

He had 70 touchdowns off those 331.

Fall back, but go ahead.

Yeah, so that's.

That's seven touchdowns a year.

33 out of 33 catches a year on average.

And like you said, we had four.

Four that were double digits.

So.

And not all together, not all early.

He had one early in his career and he had some in the middle and some near the end.

So it's.

Yeah, pretty steady career.

His ratio was 4.7.

Every 4.7 catches ended at a touchdown.

Okay, wow.

Now, Jerry Rice, just so I get it right, and don't get me wrong, the name Gary Rice had.

Greatness, will always go together.

And there was nobody like him.

Okay.

Right.

But numbers are numbers.

Okay.

And where is Mr. Gary Rice?

Yeah.

He had a 7.8 ratio compared to 4.7.

It's almost double this.

Gary Collins had two fumbles his entire career.

Jeez.

Jerry Rice had 23 fumbles.

Amazing.

He was blocked once.

That's Gary Collins.

Because he had double duty.

He was all for the punt.

Okay.

And he led the NFL in punting for 17 years before his record was broken.

Okay.

And as I said, I could go on and on.

Just one more that I think is very telling.

Should be to the hall of Fame.

Okay.

Okay.

Paul Warfield.

Okay.

His touchdown catch to touchdown ratio is 5.3.

Advantage College, right?

Yeah.

Right.

7.

Lance Allworth, the speech there.

Okay.

Yeah.

Pretty good guy, probably.

Okay.

His is 6.3.

Wow.

Okay.

Brett Bulletnikov.

In my life, I used to like to watch the Oakland Raiders.

He's from my hometown.

He's from here.

Neary.

Yeah.

He was a cool guy.

I liked him.

Anyway, his ratio 7.8, 4.7.

Okay.

And the last one, Charlie Joyner.

Okay.

His ratio was 11.5.

Wow.

Those are the only four wide receivers in the hall of Fame that played in the 60s.

And Collins, you know.

Yeah, I think you got, you got some, some points there, so.

And also you have to remember, you know, when Collins played, get Paul Warfield on his team, not the whole ten years, but for six years.

Jim Brown.

Okay.

And Ernie Davis.

You have to keep in mind that as.

As good as Collins was, they didn't go to him every play, you know.

Right.

Actually, the team's nickname for him was clutch.

Okay.

Because when they needed a touchdown or when they needed 15 yards, he would get them a touchdown or he'd get them 16 yards in the first down, they'd call them clutch.

And sometimes in a game where there would be extremely hot temperatures and the linemen, you know, big and they're sweating like heck and they're, you know, they're getting tired, you know, and they go in the huddle and they would say, hey, Aw, help us out here.

We gotta get back, you know, and sit down and cool off.

We're dying out here.

Aw, was all the way.

Because they knew if they got him the ball, there was a good chance he'd score.

Okay.

And even once, Jim Brown was asked who he thought the most clutch player on the team was, and he said, oh, the guy from Maryland, no question.

You know.

Wow.

Oh, pretty high regard for me from.

Your teammates, I guess.

Okay.

Yeah, I guess so.

When you have the guys that see him play day in and day out and they have that much confidence in them to, you know, feel that they get the ball, they're gonna score a pretty good chance in this.

And the stats say that, you know, give him one out of every five tries, he's in the end zone.

That's pretty good basis for you, for you to go to the hall of Fame and ask him for that.

So, yeah, I think they should.

He deserves a hard look, let me put it that way.

And they take two Alzheimer's now every year.

So he's an old timer.

He's 85 now.

He's suffering a few health problems.

I'm sorry to hear that, he said.

And he and I have talked, I've interviewed him personally, you know, and I know him.

He lives in Hershey, Pennsylvania, the sweetest town on earth, as they say, and over the phone many times, and then the research, and he's a very humble guy.

And he says, I know, he said, there's been Talk about this before, but he said nothing ever came of it.

So he said, I wish you well, but he says, I'm not holding my breath, you know, he said it really doesn't matter.

He said at Williamstown, at Maryland and at Cleveland.

He said, I did my job and people know that and they remember me and that's all that counts.

He said, yeah, I guess one of the stats is you only.

I mean, you talked about his punting, but he, he had a 73 yard punt for his longest.

I mean, not too many punters in the NFL have had 73 yard punts.

That's.

No, that's, that's a pretty good one.

And he, he backed that up.

He had a 71 yard one a couple years after that.

Yeah, that year that he held the record.

Yeah.

Was the one he had the 71 in and forgot to mention, but again, this is an NFL, so.

But he played both ways.

At Maryland he played in defense too.

You know.

You had to back back then, I believe, Right?

Pardon?

I think you had to there in the late fifth, up through the late 50s, you had to play both ways.

Have to.

But most coaches, yeah, they, they ran you both ways, you know, and he once putted to the 6 inch line of the opponent and then went in and blocked the punt because he's still defense.

Right.

And one of his teammates recovered it for a touchdown and they won the game.

Well, if, if they would have had the, the awards of special teams player of the week, he would have got that a whole bunch of times, huh?

Well, he said naturally he's in Maryland, you know, hall of Fame.

And I forgot to mention that when he did graduate from Maryland, he was a finalist for the Heisman.

Okay.

Wow, that's, that's big.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He is in their hall of Fame.

He's in the NFL's all 60s decades, you know, team there, you know, a lot of awards, you know, that he had.

Right.

One quick story, okay.

That I think will tell you the character of the man, okay.

In their first game as a sophomore, his first game, they were playing West Virginia at West Virginia, I think, and they beat West Virginia.

I don't recall the score exactly, but his outstanding play won him the game ball.

Is his first game, okay.

As a rookie, he immediately took the game ball over to the stands and handed it to the mother.

Okay.

Of a guy who died in preseason practice, okay.

He passed out and died from heat prostration.

His name was Lyons.

His last name L, Y, O N S. And Gary went over and presented her with the ball and said, this belongs to you.

Okay.

No, no, that's.

That's saying a lot.

That does say a lot about his character.

So he has.

He had ability, but he also had.

Character, especially for a young man who's probably 19 years old at the time.

Yeah, exactly.

I think he was 19 or 20.

Yeah.

Amazing stuff.

So, you know, I'm on this train ride now to see if I can get it to go into Canton, and it's an uphill fight.

I understand that.

But anybody out there that remembers Gary Collins or is impressed with, you know, what I've said, anyone can nominate somebody for the hall of Fame.

Okay?

All you gotta do is send a letter in and say, hey, you guys miss somebody, you know, a guy named Gary Collins, give them due consideration this year.

It's too late for this year, but I mean, for next year, right?

Wow.

Yeah, that would be some powerful letters.

So, folks, get those pens of paper and get right into the Pro Football hall of Fame, the NFL, whoever you can.

If.

If you're not sure.

Sure who to write, email me@pigskindispatchmail.com and I'll give you some.

Some guidance here on who to write.

And we'll see if we can help Vince and Mr. Collins to get that bronze bus going in Canton, because I think he very well proved this case here tonight.

So, Vincent, we really appreciate you coming on.

I want to mention once again, your.

Your book on the Pottsville Maroons are.

It's available on Amazon and some other.

Any other places that's available, too.

Mostly on Amazon.

Amazon.

Okay.

Publisher.

When Belly up is hooked up, kind of hard to get books from them, you know?

Right.

Which it overtime with them.

All right, so.

So do that.

And I want to compliment you and your partner on your book because.

Well, thank you.

It's.

It's very well done.

Very well done.

As a matter of fact, I understand more people prefer the hardback, even though it's more expensive than the paperback.

Okay.

Because it's so well done.

Okay.

With the COVID and with what's inside of it, too.

So I wish a lot of luck and success with.

With that.

Okay.

I thank you.

And I think, on behalf of Jeff and I, I think we.

You can tell you that you were one of the inspirations that helped motivate us and help give us information and the motivation to write the book.

Too.

So thank you very much for joining us tonight and we'll do all we can to help you and your causes, you know, getting your some of your books sold and to try to get Mr. Collins in the Pro Football hall of Fame.

Okay, so thanks, thanks for joining us tonight and we'll talk to you next time.

All right, Have a good night.

That's all the football history we have today, folks.

Join us back tomorrow for more of your football history.

We invite you to check out our website, pigskindispatch.com not only to see the daily football history, but to experience positive football with our many articles on the good people of the game as well as our own football comic strip, kleet marks comics, pigskindispatch.com is also on social media outlets, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and don't forget the Pigskin Dispatch YouTube channel to get all of your positive football news and history.

Special thanks to the talents of Mike and Gene Monroe, as well as Jason Neff for letting us use their music during our podcast.

This podcast is part of the Sports History Network, your headquarters for the yesteryear of your favorite sport.

You can learn more at sportshistorynetwork.

Com.