The number one challenge I see with the leaders is wanting to understand WHY they’re not taking people with them to deliver their big vision. In this episode I’m uncovering the factors that may be influencing this.

I’m talking with Julie Hutchison a soft skills and communications expert who works with leaders in the tech industry.

We discuss:

• what a background in policing teaches you about leadership
• leaders being set up to fail by focussing on specialist skills
• why soft skills are hard
• the real reasons why people might not be performing well
• the 'can't do, won't do, don't do' framework
• self-awareness and development to improve team performance
• skilled conversations to win hearts and minds.

Julie's Bio

Julie Hutchison of Think Be Do Leadership

Julie is a Team Performance and Leadership Specialist, focusing on helping Tech leaders to build soft skills and communication confidence and influence to build performance and productivity in their teams.

After an initial career as a Manufacturing Engineer, Julie then spent 16 years as a Police Inspector in the UK police force, ranging from working with prolific offenders, to senior policing leadership, government and community roles.

In policing, she learned to build relationships in minutes, and influence people in seconds. This became a key part of Julie’s success in dealing with the criminal side, but also in managing her team of 54 officers and civilian staff.

From that experience, along with her Technical background, she has developed the Team Performance Engine™, a practical and effective methodology for Leadership and Team Performance that.

Resources and helpful links

• Think Be Do Leadership Training and Coaching for CTO and Tech Leaders
• LinkedIn

About leaders with impact

Want to know the secret of great leaders? In Leaders with impact we'll be exploring what makes an impactful leader; sharing stories of success and strategies that set them apart.

If you are ambitious for your organisation but are struggling to identify what you can do differently as a leader to deliver the right improvements, then hit subscribe to learn how you can get clear on your strategy, implement some self-leadership and connect with those you serve.

New episodes are released every fortnight.

Get in touch

If you enjoyed the episode please leave a review on Apple podcasts (or your app of choice) and let me know what you thought on LinkedIn or instagram.

I’ll be back with the next episode in two weeks so in the meantime remember to sign up to my newsletter to get notified of new episodes, guest appearances and further insights on how to lead with impact.

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If I had a pound for every lead who is moaned about

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their team members not doing what they're supposed to be

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doing, I would be a very rich woman. Or I'd be paying back my

Unknown: 00:00:11

debt from when I was working my corporate role. The number one

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challenge I see with leaders I work with nowadays is wanting to

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understand why they're not taking people with them to

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deliver their big vision. In today's episode, I'm uncovering

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the factors that may be influencing this. I'm Lee

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Griffith, a communication strategist, executive coach and

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around champion of leaders who shun the old school stereotypes.

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I'm here to help you get clear on your strategy, implements

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himself leadership and connect with those you serve through

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your communications. If you want to focus on the impact you're

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having as leader book him for a free consultation call with me,

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where we'll explore how you can fine tune your performance in

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order to deliver improved organizational results. Visit

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Sundayskies.com. For details. Today, I'm talking with Julie

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Hutchinson, a soft skills and communications expert who works

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with leaders in the tech industry. Julie shares the free

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reasons why your teams might not be performing for you as a

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leader, and what you can do about changing the impact you

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have enjoy.

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I'm delighted to welcome Julie Hutchison to the leaders of

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impact podcast. Thank you for joining me today. Oh, it's an

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absolute pleasure. Thank you. Just tell us a little bit about

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who you are and what you do. Yeah, sure. So I, Julie

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Hutchison, and my company is called Think B do leadership.

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And I am a communications and soft skills specialist for tech

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leaders essentially. Which means that I love talking anything,

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people communications behavior, and all that stuff of why people

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do what they do or not, let's say.

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And we we've soft skills. We're gonna dive into that in a

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minute, because we have views.

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I wanted to touch base, because I know that you've got quite an

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extensive background in policing. Yeah. And I suppose I

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know, that isn't where you work now when you work with tech

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leaders, but I'm interested in I suppose that changing direction,

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but also what you've learned about leadership that perhaps is

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serving you in the work that you're doing now? Yeah,

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absolutely. Yeah. So I did 16 years in Hartfordshire. Police,

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when I left I was an inspector. I've done lots and lots of

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different roles. I always say that one of the things for me

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and in the police was that I was never very good runner. So if I

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wanted to arrest anybody, I needed to be able to convince

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them to come with me a bit all during that time. And in my

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previous time, I was in engineering as well, that what I

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realized was that I needed to be able to convince people to come

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alongside because you know, you don't carry a gun, you don't,

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you can't bash everybody over the head, if they want them to

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do something, you've got to be able to communicate, you've got

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to be able to get people onside. And regardless of what they've

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done, in fact, and actually, the outcomes that, that you get

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particularly pleasing it are so much better if even if you've

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got the most hideous person in front of you, you know, they've

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done the worst thing and you know, they've done it, if you

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can build rapport, if you can get them on side, if you can

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make them feel like they trust you to respect them as a human

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being, and you know, that you walk alongside them, let's say,

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you're gonna get that, that communication, you're gonna get

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the outcomes that you want. They might even admit their crime,

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let's say, but they're going to work with you to do things. And

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that might sound really weird. But that was my whole ethos in

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the police was, how can I work with people rather than working

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it's and it's not just for the good ol criminals, but it might

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be for the council, or the schools or the whoever it is,

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you know, the, the lay down the road or, or whatever it might

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be. But it taught me that people won't do what you want them to

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do, unless they want to do it. And they can do it, you know,

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and so that that really taught me that I needed to focus on how

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I show up and to end and obviously, being an inspector

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and I had a team I had 54 staff at one point. And so all of that

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was about how do we all show up to influence other people to to

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be the help or hinder them to do what we or they needed to do as

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a massive lesson in, in you can't you can't force people,

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you can chat with them in the you know, if there's been a car

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crash or something like that, you can, you know, right, do it

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now. And that's about the only time when you really can just

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say just

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and they might do it, but but policing was it's not what

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everybody thinks, I think a lot of the time and you know,

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there's there's a it's called policing by consent for a

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reason. And it's that consent for for police officers to you

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know, to be able to do the things and to get collaboration

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with the people, you know, of the town or wherever it is

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they're working with and to to work with them and get their get

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the best outcomes. And so that was a massive, massive learning

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curve for me over the 16 years.

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And inside internally, what I recognize is that we need to

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give people the skills because it's very easy to think, Oh, I

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just need to know the law, I need to know what to do, you

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know, how do I arrest somebody, and there's, there's so much

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more to it. But also internally, if we want our teams to do what

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we want them to do, we've got you know, that that was a, that

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was another realization for me that we could give people the

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skills to, to understand themselves and to understand,

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you know, how they're showing up, and to be able to manage

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each other when we're not in that emergency situation, let's

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say. And so I ended up learning coaching, whilst I was in

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policing, and I also became a workplace mediator, which was

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even more funny, because internally, you know, the

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communication and the conflict that would that would come up

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because of some of the issues that we just talked about, would

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cause huge amounts of problems. And so when I started doing

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internal mediation, we see that actually, it's always about

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communication, it was always about something that somebody

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either did or didn't do, or said or didn't say, somebody's took

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offense. And so we have to understand, you know, what's

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really going on behind all these layers that people have, whether

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we're a police officer, whether we're, you know, a random person

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walking down the street, or whatever it might be. And it's

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that the gap between what we believe is going on and what's

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actually going on what we put in place of that gap. That is the

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is the crux of, you know, whether I feel comfortable,

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whether I trust you whether I want to be around you, and

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therefore, whether you're going to get the best result out of

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the interaction that you've got. And if you think about

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forensics, I love this little, little phrase of every contact

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leaves a trace, which is a forensic term, meaning, you

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know, if you've done something and you've, I don't know, stolen

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the TV, or whatever it is, put it in the boot of your car, then

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something on that will leave a trace on the car, but it also

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leaves trace on that on that TV. And if you think about that, if

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I were to translate that to people, every contact leaves a

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trace, when I'm talking to you now that you know, something of

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me will rub off on you, good or bad.

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But also something of you will rub off on me, good or bad? If

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we're aware of that. And this is kind of the realization I had

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while I was while I was, you know, all those years in

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policing, and the end before it opened probably the world of

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work being so old I am, it made me realize that actually, well,

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if every contact leads or trace, better be a good one. Let's look

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at how do we make that happen. And that's kind of why I then

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decided that this was the era I wanted to specialize in.

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Because I saw the benefits of that in such a big way. And then

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coming into why am I in tech, you might say, Well, why are you

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not working with police officers, but my previous

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background being in engineering, and what I, what I found was

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that I had an affinity towards people who were really, really

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good at the task, the technical focus of what they did. And I

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translated these learnings of communication and and that, that

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leaving a trace into how do we help tech leaders to use their

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soft skills and not think, Oh, they're really, I will say soft

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skills shouldn't be hard work, you know, but how do we stop

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them from being hard work because it's easy to avoid and

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just think about the task. The reason why I'm hit where I am

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now is because there's a natural translation to helping people

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who maybe don't feel very comfortable with those

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communication skills with understanding some of the the

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nuances of what's going on, and maybe avoid it a little bit or

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hope it will go away sometimes dealing with those difficult

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conversations or having you know, having those people

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conversations aren't always so easy for for some people in

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tech. And so I found there was a real need for my skills in that

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area. And so it's kind of where I've, you know, I can I can work

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with anybody that would that's not the point because the

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passion needs to be where somebody wants, wants me and

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where I can do my best work. And so that's kind of where that's

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how I got here. And why I use what I use, really, you've

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touched on briefly there, that people who perhaps have those

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really specialist skills or working really specialist areas.

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And I always find this and the leaders that I work with, and

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they get promoted, promoted and promoted because of the

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specialist knowledge that they have. And no one ever really

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looks at the other stuff that's required when you're in a

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leadership role. And it's really exposing and vulnerable for

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those people. To me, I think it's almost cruel lead, you

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know, fancy that, you know, like, Oh, you're really good at

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what you do. Let's put you in a role now that you have no idea.

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And not only that, they I don't know about you, we probably have

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experiences that often didn't give them any help until it's

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until it's like oh, we need to sort that out now, you know, but

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they don't think Oh, right. Okay. You've gone into a role

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that you've had no experience in let's give you those. Either the

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skills or the understanding, so that you because everybody can

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do it, because there's a

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dare I say a formula but there's, you've got to learn

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certain things.

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But there's some there's some ways of looking at it and

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simplifying it, that can help you. But if you don't get that,

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then how are you supposed to know about it? You know, and in

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your experience, I'm sure people are just, well, you're really

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good at no coding or something, or you're really good at

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cooking. I don't know what it could be. But then you suddenly

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find yourself in charge. Yeah. And it's a scary place to be

Unknown: 00:10:23

sometimes. Yeah, absolutely. And you say the help might come, but

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it's more of an intervention than a help. It comes when it

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when it's got to the intervention.

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And, and it's usually at a point of such high pressure, that

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you're almost bound to fail, because it's, you know, it's

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built up this, this pressure head just, they've almost been

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set up to fail. Yeah. And you think that if you if you imagine

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how somebody must feel like, yeah, here I am, I was really

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good at what I did. And now I feel like a failure. I don't

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want to admit that I feel like a failure, because someone was

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like, really good at what I did. And every thought was amazing. I

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don't want to say, but equally, I don't know what to do. I don't

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know how to deal with these people who now don't really,

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I'll say like, but I mean, we're not there to be liked, per se,

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you know what I mean? But I don't have that relationship.

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Now. Everybody's finding it a little bit uncomfortable. I

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don't know what to do. So people, it's almost like you

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pulled them out of their success, and threw them into

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failure,

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which I think is negligent, at the very least, but you know,

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pretty cruel, really, and and that's where you and I come in,

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because there's a need for people to understand, well, one,

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it's not so scary. And it can it can be learned and nuanced. And

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yes, you may not be always that comfortable with people in my my

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area. Maybe they mean they're not. But you'll know what to do,

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and you'll know how to do it. And you'll know you'll be given

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the ability to at least try it out and give it a go and know

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where you should be and and set up to succeed rather than set up

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to fail. It's so important is we've we've touched on this

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already, but what our common interest is, I suppose it's

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almost our hatred for the word soft skills because it's seen as

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this nice to have thing in leadership and I think they

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they're they're your vital skills, not not soft skills.

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Everybody thinks you're fluffy on a cloud don't yeah.

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It's it's so undervalued by but not by leaders who get it but

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but by leadership communities. I think they it's an undervalued,

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undervalued skill set, I think by organizations, they look at

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the hardest stuff, they look at the outcomes, but not thinking

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about what what's needed to get to those outcomes. Now, you've

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focused your business around the soft skills world, saving a

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thing.

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But what have you noticed, I suppose, in the work that you're

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doing, and particularly in the sectors that you work with,

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where perhaps the focus is on that specialist, technical

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excellence, and therefore soft skills is seen as the pink and

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fluffy. Quite often what I hear, I'm just, I've gotten to my head

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that because I hear this all the time, I'm thinking about certain

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people, what I hear is Oh, like, I'll call him Bob, for want of a

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better name is I need to sack Bob, or Bob's not performing

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Bob's rubbish, or if we need to employ some people. And Bob

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looks the best, because Bob's got all the skills that we need,

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all the technical skills that is, and so we, we either when

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something goes wrong, we tend to think that we need it's Bob's

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fault, and we need to sack him. Poor Bob Exactly. And then when

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we're recruiting, we set ourselves up to fail, also, by

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looking very much on the technical side, and not looking

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at how that person is going to fit in what what communication

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skills they have, how are they going to work with the team? Or

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how are we going to give them the opportunity to work with the

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team. And so on two levels, where, again, you know, putting

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our foot in their mouth, really, and not really thinking about

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the wider picture. And so, for example, when if we look at, you

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know, Bob's not doing the right job, he's not working. I hear it

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all the time. And I say that actually, you know, we should be

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looking to ourselves, because it's us as a leader, or how do

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we either help them we talked about it before, but how do we

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either help or hinder somebody to to be able to do the job they

Unknown: 00:14:38

need to do and quite often the person has the skills,

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but they, for some reason, either can't do it, or won't do

Unknown: 00:14:47

it? Or I say Lee Don, well don't do it. Those three things that

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happen, but all we're focusing on

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is in many companies is is can they actually have a good

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skill. But there's these other reasons why somebody is not

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performing. And the responsibility often lies with

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the person in charge of that person to look at how they are

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influencing that ability. I call it the call do I do don't do.

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And it's, it's so, so important to understand which one of those

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actually is it? And is there any way we can, I suppose salvage it

Unknown: 00:15:29

or change the outcome. But if you think and you know, this,

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the but if you think about it, you know, if I'm looking at

Unknown: 00:15:37

somebody's behavior, it's generally as a response to

Unknown: 00:15:39

something, a stimulus, probably our behavior, if they're our if

Unknown: 00:15:44

their boss or somebody else in the team, let's say so. So we

Unknown: 00:15:47

have to look at things as a whole of like, what's the

Unknown: 00:15:49

stimulus? What's happening? You know, if we were to think about

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what button do I need to press? If we're simplifying it down to

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you know, what, what is the issue? And how do I solve that.

Unknown: 00:16:00

And generally, we can break that down into those three areas. And

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when we do that, it means that

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even if I'm not a really confident leader, or I'm really

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not a confident communicator, and I'm really, you know, like,

Unknown: 00:16:15

at my first stage of leadership, or I'm, you know, I've avoided

Unknown: 00:16:18

it for long enough. And I can sit there and say, like, let me

Unknown: 00:16:21

just look at Bob, and ask myself, those three questions.

Unknown: 00:16:25

He can't do his it won't do or is it don't do I probably need

Unknown: 00:16:30

to explain those three things. Yeah. But that's that literally,

Unknown: 00:16:34

we can ask those three questions. And the minute we do,

Unknown: 00:16:37

it's like, a lightbulb goes off for people. And I had 35 tech

Unknown: 00:16:41

leaders in a room the other day, we were talking about this, and

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everybody kept coming up to me afterwards go, I've just

Unknown: 00:16:48

realized it's this. It's not okay. Now, we no need to know

Unknown: 00:16:51

what do we do about it? But let's look at you know, at least

Unknown: 00:16:54

we've got a start of what do I and suddenly the responsibility

Unknown: 00:16:57

of who I need to be thinking about how I'm showing up here,

Unknown: 00:17:00

which was really good. Can't do won't do don't do? Yes, let's

Unknown: 00:17:04

take each each of them and and talk through what maybe some of

Unknown: 00:17:09

the characteristics might be that you would see if they fall

Unknown: 00:17:12

under that category. Yeah, I'm so so can't do can't do. So.

Unknown: 00:17:16

This one sounds like the easy one. So can't do means that they

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either can't do because they don't have the skill, which is

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the one that everybody goes for. Or they don't have the

Unknown: 00:17:25

confidence to make good decisions in that business.

Unknown: 00:17:28

Because you and I know that, you know, if what do we want? What

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are we therefore, as a leader, we're there to help other people

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to, to to succeed so that we leverage, you know, what, what

Unknown: 00:17:37

we what we know, and how we work with people to get more. Here,

Unknown: 00:17:40

we're saying well, the either they can't do it because another

Unknown: 00:17:43

skill or that person is not sure and can't be leverage, because

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they don't know how to make good decisions in the business. So if

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people could make good decisions,

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then you could step back, let them get on with it. And they

Unknown: 00:17:56

would know the decision they need to make and therefore

Unknown: 00:17:58

they'd say, Do I go left or right out of my office? And they

Unknown: 00:18:02

know what to do and why they need to do it. Okay. Can't do

Unknown: 00:18:06

consists of those two things. And, and so when we're looking

Unknown: 00:18:09

at that, what I mean by that is, you know, like, Well, if the

Unknown: 00:18:14

poor poor Bob, if Bob Carr Hunter hasn't got the skill,

Unknown: 00:18:18

then we know we need to try and Bop. That's the simple bit.

Unknown: 00:18:20

Yeah. But if Bob isn't making good decisions, and you're

Unknown: 00:18:23

thinking more cautionary, even though he he can do I know he

Unknown: 00:18:26

can do it. He's not done here. Maybe he doesn't have a

Unknown: 00:18:29

confidence, because he's not sure what good looks like or

Unknown: 00:18:33

what, what, you know, how you want that done. Okay, so, or the

Unknown: 00:18:38

fact that you are perhaps micromanaging or haven't given

Unknown: 00:18:43

him the trust and confidence so that the Bob actually thinks

Unknown: 00:18:46

that you know, what, I'm gonna put my head above the parapet,

Unknown: 00:18:48

and I'm going to make a good decision. Okay. So there's two,

Unknown: 00:18:51

there's two elements there to can't do. But if we were to

Unknown: 00:18:55

focus on the simplicity of just like, is there some reason why

Unknown: 00:18:57

this person can't do it? That's an easy fix. Okay. And then

Unknown: 00:19:02

there is, well, I won't do it. And that's complete ly

Unknown: 00:19:06

different. So let's say they know what good looks like they

Unknown: 00:19:11

they have all the skills they're perfectly CV looks absolutely

Unknown: 00:19:14

amazing. We know they've done it before, but they're not and

Unknown: 00:19:17

won't do is because because they won't do it for you. Okay, or

Unknown: 00:19:21

for somebody else in the team. Like it's because of a

Unknown: 00:19:23

relationship. It's because of the impact that you're having

Unknown: 00:19:27

behaviorally, or, you know, something that is there between

Unknown: 00:19:32

two people, two or more people even, and we come down to

Unknown: 00:19:35

conflict, or do we come down to like, I just don't like you very

Unknown: 00:19:38

much, or you're so different from me. Why are you like that?

Unknown: 00:19:42

Why do you do things that way? You know, I mean, you've

Unknown: 00:19:45

probably explained anybody listening, it's probably

Unknown: 00:19:47

experience where you look at somebody think, why are they

Unknown: 00:19:49

doing that? You know, like, I don't do it like that. I'm not

Unknown: 00:19:51

thinking like that. Why are they thinking like that? It might be

Unknown: 00:19:53

that they, they in the enth detail of something and you're

Unknown: 00:19:56

like, Come on, hurry up, just get off my thing, or whatever.

Unknown: 00:19:59

So it could be

Unknown: 00:20:00

It could be, like, literally, I don't like you. But equally, it

Unknown: 00:20:03

could be like, I don't understand where you're coming

Unknown: 00:20:06

from your perspective, or the way you work or all of those

Unknown: 00:20:08

things. And so swear, sorry, I swear, it might be a values

Unknown: 00:20:15

misaligned, or what some, someone finds important is

Unknown: 00:20:19

different. And so no, no, not yet. That's what you're getting

Unknown: 00:20:23

ahead of yourself. Sorry. So, no, that'll be the next bit.

Unknown: 00:20:27

Because here we're just talking about like, like, I won't do it,

Unknown: 00:20:31

because there's something that makes me not want to do it for

Unknown: 00:20:33

you so very much for the person. So it's yeah, it's about like,

Unknown: 00:20:38

do I like, like that person? I suppose you could say like, do I

Unknown: 00:20:42

like them? Do I understand them all about the people that are

Unknown: 00:20:46

there.

Unknown: 00:20:47

And so if I don't like the person, or I don't feel

Unknown: 00:20:50

comfortable, or I don't trust them, or they're so different

Unknown: 00:20:53

from me that I've like, feeling a bit weird, and I don't know

Unknown: 00:20:56

how to deal with them, then that's going to stop me from

Unknown: 00:20:59

performing. Okay? Because if I don't feel comfortable, I'm

Unknown: 00:21:03

going to spend most of my time worrying about things or it

Unknown: 00:21:05

could mean that I end up off sick or you know, especially if

Unknown: 00:21:07

there's conflict, all of those things, you know, I, I'm not

Unknown: 00:21:11

going to perform, but it's very different from, could I perform

Unknown: 00:21:15

the Oh, can I? Yes, I can, but I don't because of this

Unknown: 00:21:17

relationship issue of some description.

Unknown: 00:21:20

The one that you're talking about there, then you've pulled

Unknown: 00:21:22

on, which is super, super important as well, is the third

Unknown: 00:21:25

part, which is darn well don't two, which is if I don't like

Unknown: 00:21:32

where you're going. Okay, or I don't know where you're going

Unknown: 00:21:35

these the other thing, because obviously, you and I both know

Unknown: 00:21:38

that quite often, people in leadership positions, haven't

Unknown: 00:21:41

told everybody where they're going, or what the purpose of

Unknown: 00:21:44

what they're doing is, or, you know, like, what the big picture

Unknown: 00:21:48

is, and and therefore they peak when people either don't agree

Unknown: 00:21:51

with it, or they don't have any idea, what is the big picture?

Unknown: 00:21:56

They're kind of at a loss. It's a bit like if you come to a

Unknown: 00:21:58

roundabout, you know, and you're driving like, nice and steady.

Unknown: 00:22:02

Let's say you're going at a nice pace, it comes to the

Unknown: 00:22:04

roundabout, and you and I lay or go around this roundabout, and

Unknown: 00:22:06

I'm in the driver's seat, and I'm like, appealing. Which way

Unknown: 00:22:09

are we going? And you go, I'm not entirely sure. Hang on a

Unknown: 00:22:11

second, I just look at the map. I don't know. And I'm like, for

Unknown: 00:22:14

goodness sake. going round and round this roundabout really

Unknown: 00:22:17

slowly going, tell me which way to go. And you can't tell me

Unknown: 00:22:21

which way to go. Because you don't know. And then you're

Unknown: 00:22:24

like, Okay, fine. Finally you say like, oh, it's the a 30 or

Unknown: 00:22:27

whatever. And I'm, oh, good, great. And then when I get on

Unknown: 00:22:29

the 30, I can go fast. But until we know where we're going, we're

Unknown: 00:22:34

gonna go around around about super, super slow. Or if we if

Unknown: 00:22:37

we do to where we go in and say we use it to me, Julie, we're on

Unknown: 00:22:41

the A 30 Because we go into I don't know where we're going

Unknown: 00:22:43

now.

Unknown: 00:22:47

Salisbury Andover, I think somebody on here is going to

Unknown: 00:22:51

correct us on that one.

Unknown: 00:22:53

Let's just say it's Andover. And I'm like, oh, no, I don't want

Unknown: 00:22:57

to go to Andover. I don't like and I'm sure it's wonderful. But

Unknown: 00:23:01

like, if I don't want to go there, then I'm gonna put my

Unknown: 00:23:04

foot on the brake. I'm like, No, I don't want to be on this, this

Unknown: 00:23:07

this in this car or on this bus or whatever it might be. So the

Unknown: 00:23:11

point about Darmowe don't do is that actually, I don't want to

Unknown: 00:23:15

go where you want to go. And imagine that. Imagine that

Unknown: 00:23:19

you're in an organization that you can you applied for this

Unknown: 00:23:23

job, for example, you, you really want a job, you need the

Unknown: 00:23:27

money, you've got the skills, but you're not entirely sure

Unknown: 00:23:30

about this, this place. And it might you know, it might be what

Unknown: 00:23:34

their values are, you might say, Oh, actually, you know what, no,

Unknown: 00:23:36

I don't like the values of this as well. So when I say where

Unknown: 00:23:38

they're going, it could be all of those things. And you think,

Unknown: 00:23:40

Well, I can do it. But I just don't feel good about it. I

Unknown: 00:23:43

don't want to be here. It doesn't, it does not, it's not

Unknown: 00:23:45

me. And what happens is, is that people, they, you'll find them

Unknown: 00:23:50

in the corner complaining, basically, you'll find them in

Unknown: 00:23:53

meetings with their arms folded, looking pretty annoyed and being

Unknown: 00:23:56

really awkward, because they don't want to go where you want

Unknown: 00:24:02

to go. And therefore you can you can cajole them, and they could

Unknown: 00:24:05

probably think you're a nice person as well. But if they

Unknown: 00:24:08

don't want to go where you go, then they're not going to go,

Unknown: 00:24:12

they're not going to do their best work. And so as a leader,

Unknown: 00:24:14

you need to understand that and make sure you've told them where

Unknown: 00:24:17

you're going and, and what the values are. And if they match

Unknown: 00:24:21

that they're going to come with you, they're going to get on the

Unknown: 00:24:23

bus. Yeah, you know, I've seen this I've seen I've seen that

Unknown: 00:24:28

with certainly executive teams that I've worked with where a

Unknown: 00:24:32

new leader might come in, and they'll get they'll come really

Unknown: 00:24:35

frustrated because of like, we're doing this big strategy

Unknown: 00:24:38

piece of work or we're launching this in the organization. And

Unknown: 00:24:41

you know, I've sat around with my colleagues and I gave them

Unknown: 00:24:45

the presentation and everyone was really quiet and some of

Unknown: 00:24:48

them nodded their heads, but they've all walked out the room

Unknown: 00:24:51

and they're not aligned at all they're carrying on with their

Unknown: 00:24:53

own agenda. They're doing their then they're not giving the

Unknown: 00:24:57

messages I want them to give like, but they didn't say

Unknown: 00:25:00

anything in the meeting and say this lack of alignment is really

Unknown: 00:25:03

a big problem I see in leadership teams. Absolutely.

Unknown: 00:25:07

So, so the, the, if they don't agree, that's the, that's the

Unknown: 00:25:11

Dodwell don't do. If there was a reason why they don't want to be

Unknown: 00:25:14

doing it, like our, I don't like the way you put it across or you

Unknown: 00:25:17

know, you know, then that's the best a different reason. So

Unknown: 00:25:20

that's the one to pop. And you're absolutely right. You

Unknown: 00:25:23

know? And if, if we see it in a slightly different way, when

Unknown: 00:25:27

they don't bother telling them, you know, they just think, Oh,

Unknown: 00:25:30

you will not get on with it. Then people are sat there

Unknown: 00:25:32

wondering, well, what why are we doing the thing we're doing? And

Unknown: 00:25:34

you know, as human beings, we always want to know why, even

Unknown: 00:25:37

when we will, you know, when we're kids, why are we doing

Unknown: 00:25:38

this? Why are we doing that? And it doesn't change when we're

Unknown: 00:25:41

adults? Because we want to know,

Unknown: 00:25:44

is this is this something that I can get behind is this something

Unknown: 00:25:47

that I can I can be interested in and believe in, because the

Unknown: 00:25:52

more I believe in it, the the more I will be able to do my

Unknown: 00:25:56

best work. And, you know, as an example, I was laugh at myself

Unknown: 00:26:00

for one of my first job opportunities when I when I left

Unknown: 00:26:04

university, after having done my engineering degree, it was with

Unknown: 00:26:07

United biscuits, and I thought, you know, I did biscuits, like

Unknown: 00:26:10

it was just like my dream job.

Unknown: 00:26:13

And they were like, oh, yeah, no, go along to this place. And

Unknown: 00:26:16

oh, you're you're in the rush, Young's division. And I was

Unknown: 00:26:19

like, okay, yeah, fine. Wonderful. Now, as a naive,

Unknown: 00:26:22

university, graduate, let's say, I thought, yeah, briskets.

Unknown: 00:26:26

Fantastic. And what I didn't realize is that Ross Young's

Unknown: 00:26:29

actually is the chicken, man, plump. And fish, oh, they

Unknown: 00:26:35

probably do fish as well, I've never gone that far, to be quite

Unknown: 00:26:37

honest. Because what happened was, and just for anybody in the

Unknown: 00:26:40

audience, I don't eat me, I'm vegan. I was vegetarian at the

Unknown: 00:26:44

time. And then they I showed up at this place. And my goodness,

Unknown: 00:26:47

I thought I could cope. But so even though I had the skills to

Unknown: 00:26:51

do the job that they were asking me to do, when I walked in

Unknown: 00:26:55

there, my values my, you know, where do I want to be? Like, you

Unknown: 00:27:01

know, what do I agree with, you know, when I looked at what they

Unknown: 00:27:03

were trying to achieve, I was like, Oh, God, no. And the fact

Unknown: 00:27:08

the the HR lady looked, took one look at me, after we'd done the

Unknown: 00:27:11

tour of The Killing pot.

Unknown: 00:27:14

It was like green, and she just looked at me and she went, This

Unknown: 00:27:17

isn't for you is it and I said, it's not for me. And it was had

Unknown: 00:27:20

nothing to do with my skills, it had everything to do with my

Unknown: 00:27:22

values and my desires, and what I was interested in or not

Unknown: 00:27:25

interested in. And so that's kind of an example of what I'm

Unknown: 00:27:28

talking about here is that, if it's against your values, or a

Unknown: 00:27:31

gift, or just not of interest to you,

Unknown: 00:27:34

then you're not going to want to do it. And so, as leaders, we

Unknown: 00:27:39

have to make sure that we've told people, and we've inspired

Unknown: 00:27:43

people to go on the journey that we want to want to take, because

Unknown: 00:27:48

it's all very well telling them and they say yes, great, I want

Unknown: 00:27:51

to be there, I don't want to be there. But if you just leave

Unknown: 00:27:53

them to nothing, they're going to make up well, what is it

Unknown: 00:27:55

about on and

Unknown: 00:27:57

that's where conflict comes, because then we got good people

Unknown: 00:28:00

kind of going rogue because they don't know, they don't know

Unknown: 00:28:04

where you want them to go. It's like making a cake. You know,

Unknown: 00:28:06

like, I could make lots I can beat the I can beat the sugar

Unknown: 00:28:10

and the butter together, and I can put the flour and everything

Unknown: 00:28:12

else. But the thing that comes out, it's got to look a

Unknown: 00:28:15

different, you know, you can make it into different shapes

Unknown: 00:28:17

and put different things on top. And so if I don't know where

Unknown: 00:28:20

you're trying to get to, I'm going to make the wrong cake.

Unknown: 00:28:22

You know, but because I've got skills, it's almost even more

Unknown: 00:28:25

dangerous. Because I'm a fight without direction, I'm going to

Unknown: 00:28:30

do the wrong thing. Because it will be my idea, not yours, I'm

Unknown: 00:28:35

using the analogy of cake making, because that's why

Unknown: 00:28:39

I find that some of the ingredients that leaders need is

Unknown: 00:28:44

they they can fixate on that I need to tell ya, and not so much

Unknown: 00:28:48

on the I need to tell from a point of view of the other

Unknown: 00:28:53

person not from my point of view, because I think that can

Unknown: 00:28:57

often be where a gap emerges, because leaders will will

Unknown: 00:29:01

concentrate on their needs and what they want to get out of

Unknown: 00:29:04

something or not try to understand where the people that

Unknown: 00:29:08

they're trying to take with them are coming from. And therefore

Unknown: 00:29:11

that also I'm assuming plays into the comp and why because

Unknown: 00:29:14

then you're not taking that time to to notice to understand to to

Unknown: 00:29:19

check in to see if there is that alignment because they come in

Unknown: 00:29:23

in such a narrow focus of me rather than I always say there's

Unknown: 00:29:28

no me and team and this is where there is but it's just

Unknown: 00:29:34

yeah, you're absolutely right. So if you think about it, like

Unknown: 00:29:37

if it's the the leader, why don't do it, you know, that's

Unknown: 00:29:41

the sort of the big picture of like values and vision and

Unknown: 00:29:45

mission and have i Any idea where we're going and then the

Unknown: 00:29:48

other side of like what does that person need to be able to

Unknown: 00:29:50

perform is like the recipe side that's the can't do because

Unknown: 00:29:54

they've got the skill, but alongside the skill they need

Unknown: 00:29:56

the recipe they need the guidelines they need the the

Unknown: 00:29:58

ways of being able to

Unknown: 00:30:00

To be autonomous. And so that's where we need to bring in, as

Unknown: 00:30:03

you were quite rightly saying, we need to listen more. And

Unknown: 00:30:05

instead of telling people what to do, we need to employ a bit

Unknown: 00:30:08

more of a coaching style, so that we give that person the

Unknown: 00:30:12

ability to make those good decisions. So they know where

Unknown: 00:30:17

the big picture is, they know where the guardrails are, and

Unknown: 00:30:19

they are able to go or think that's right. But also they,

Unknown: 00:30:22

they trust us. And they know that you're not going to slap

Unknown: 00:30:25

them down if you make the wrong decision. So you're building a

Unknown: 00:30:28

skill of can do, yeah, but you're building not only see, do

Unknown: 00:30:33

I have the physical skill of being able to do it, but do I

Unknown: 00:30:36

have the ability to think and be confident and capable, so that I

Unknown: 00:30:43

can go Yeah, I'm gonna apply this skill. And I know that this

Unknown: 00:30:46

is what they want. This is where we go in and I don't need to

Unknown: 00:30:49

knock on Julie's door, and ask her what's next? Julie? I can

Unknown: 00:30:54

just go well, I think that she you know, given that this is

Unknown: 00:30:57

what we're going for, I think this is the right decision. And

Unknown: 00:31:00

that confidence to make those good decisions is where, you

Unknown: 00:31:03

know, when we think about leveraging our teams is that's

Unknown: 00:31:05

where it comes from, because they don't need to ask us. Yeah,

Unknown: 00:31:07

but that only comes when we grow their skills in making those

Unknown: 00:31:11

decisions. And that only comes from listening, and coaching

Unknown: 00:31:15

people so that they they know they don't have to ask us they

Unknown: 00:31:18

know that they are more capable than maybe they thought

Unknown: 00:31:21

originally they they can contextualize things, they can

Unknown: 00:31:25

ask themselves good questions.

Unknown: 00:31:27

But we have to allow that we have to stop micromanaging, we

Unknown: 00:31:31

have to coach we have to ask good questions. And we have to

Unknown: 00:31:35

trust those people. So that, you know, so that they they they

Unknown: 00:31:38

think well, you know, actually, I, I'm willing to put my head

Unknown: 00:31:44

above the parapet and say, I think we should do this, you

Unknown: 00:31:46

know, and then suddenly, if you do bad, if you've coached people

Unknown: 00:31:50

who have good skill, if you coach them, and they know where

Unknown: 00:31:53

they're going, think about if we put that jigsaw together, now I

Unknown: 00:31:57

can do it. I want to do it for you. And I know where we're

Unknown: 00:32:02

going. So I will do it. Because I now come to get on with my

Unknown: 00:32:06

job. Knowing the context, knowing the understanding and

Unknown: 00:32:09

feeling comfortable and trusting that person to support me in me

Unknown: 00:32:15

taking my part up in this team, which is what we've now created

Unknown: 00:32:19

of people. And so when we take it back to what he does, you

Unknown: 00:32:23

know, what did we as a leader need to be able to do that, we

Unknown: 00:32:26

need to look at our impact, because all of these things are

Unknown: 00:32:28

about our impact in some way or another. Did I explain that? Did

Unknown: 00:32:32

I build trust? Do they understand me? Do I understand

Unknown: 00:32:36

them? Have I told them where we're going? Am I bringing them

Unknown: 00:32:38

with me.

Unknown: 00:32:40

And to get conscious of our impact is what I call you.

Unknown: 00:32:45

That's why we probably both fight over the words Oscars,

Unknown: 00:32:48

because it's about communication. So it's all a bit

Unknown: 00:32:49

of a thing, you know, but but really what I'm talking about is

Unknown: 00:32:52

getting conscious of how we show up. Yeah, behaviorally, let's

Unknown: 00:32:57

say,

Unknown: 00:32:59

and making sure that that's a positive thing. I don't mean

Unknown: 00:33:01

being positive all the time. I mean, it's a positive experience

Unknown: 00:33:05

for that person, even if I have to say something awful, but it's

Unknown: 00:33:08

a positive experience. And when it's a positive experience for

Unknown: 00:33:11

somebody, we build trust, we build that collaboration, we

Unknown: 00:33:14

build capability, we build confidence. And when we do that,

Unknown: 00:33:19

we've got a team of people that are willing to give it their all

Unknown: 00:33:22

their best in the direction that we actually want them to go in.

Unknown: 00:33:27

So we don't have Rogue, we have really, really engaged people

Unknown: 00:33:30

who are excited for what we're trying to do, and are enabled by

Unknown: 00:33:34

us to just get on with it.

Unknown: 00:33:37

Which means that we can step back as a leader and do the

Unknown: 00:33:39

things that we're supposed to be doing instead of getting on and

Unknown: 00:33:41

getting in there and picking, we can strategize or whatever it

Unknown: 00:33:46

might be take the day off if we need to, or you know, whatever

Unknown: 00:33:49

the thing is good, but stuff that only we can do. That only

Unknown: 00:33:52

we can do. Yeah, exactly. And go to the you know, go to that

Unknown: 00:33:55

future planning, meeting and create whatever we need to

Unknown: 00:33:57

create, knowing and trusting that the people that are in our

Unknown: 00:34:03

team are capable and confident and and collaboratively working

Unknown: 00:34:07

towards what what we all agree. We need to get to. I was

Unknown: 00:34:12

thinking as you as you were summarizing that, that in the

Unknown: 00:34:15

sense of can't won't don't almost I'm thinking if leaders

Unknown: 00:34:20

are listening to this and noting it down with thinking about

Unknown: 00:34:23

their team and how you can't help but think about how you

Unknown: 00:34:26

might categorize the people that you're working with. But I

Unknown: 00:34:30

almost think actually let's do it for ourselves first. Got to

Unknown: 00:34:34

the leader needs to do yeah, um, I can do well, yeah. Because

Unknown: 00:34:40

because you are you are leading what you are almost in some

Unknown: 00:34:43

ways. Yeah. You got to look internally and say, you know, do

Unknown: 00:34:46

I even know where I'm going? Do I, you know, am I in the right

Unknown: 00:34:50

place? Do I have to? Am I living my values? Out? Do I have that

Unknown: 00:34:53

capability and also to look up and think you know, if you've

Unknown: 00:34:55

got your, your organization, think about it. It's

Unknown: 00:35:00

It's every level. So the organization needs to make sure

Unknown: 00:35:03

that that that's, you know, whoever that is, if it's not

Unknown: 00:35:06

you, then they need to

Unknown: 00:35:08

say, Where are we going? And how are we going to engage people?

Unknown: 00:35:11

And how are we going to set the culture of, you know, a coaching

Unknown: 00:35:15

and collaborative culture? How are we going to, we're going to

Unknown: 00:35:18

make sure that that's rewarded? Are we going to make sure that

Unknown: 00:35:20

that's noticed and encouraged? Or are we going to do it the

Unknown: 00:35:26

other way? So at every level of leadership, it's very important

Unknown: 00:35:30

that we need to look at ourselves in terms of like,

Unknown: 00:35:32

Well, how am I creating this? You know, like, so I'm saying,

Unknown: 00:35:37

Oh, Bob can't do it because of this isn't this, but always it

Unknown: 00:35:41

comes back to so what do I need to do to change that? Yeah. You

Unknown: 00:35:46

know, like, if Bob doesn't, like, I'm saying, I keep using

Unknown: 00:35:50

the word like, but if Bob doesn't like working with me,

Unknown: 00:35:52

let's say, yeah, why not? You know, like, do I need to

Unknown: 00:35:55

understand, but better? Does Bob need to understand me better?

Unknown: 00:35:58

But like, it's because I'm the boss. It's my responsibility to

Unknown: 00:36:04

look at this and go, What, what, what thing Do I need to do?

Unknown: 00:36:08

What's missing? What's missing from that jigsaw puzzle? And

Unknown: 00:36:12

what I think is important, as you say, is to look at

Unknown: 00:36:15

generally, what am I like? Like? So for example, I could say,

Unknown: 00:36:21

Okay, so like, I mean, we break down candy one to two wider

Unknown: 00:36:25

pieces when work people but but when we might say, okay, so does

Unknown: 00:36:28

you know, if you were to score yourselves, you know, red, amber

Unknown: 00:36:30

green, or whatever you want to do? You know, where would where

Unknown: 00:36:33

would be your strength, and we have to be a witness. And you

Unknown: 00:36:34

might say, oh, yeah, I'm actually really good at helping

Unknown: 00:36:37

people to understand where we're going in the vision of values

Unknown: 00:36:39

and that sort of things. But I'm actually really bad because

Unknown: 00:36:42

generally, when I get annoyed, for example, I let off steam by

Unknown: 00:36:47

shouting at people or whatever the thing is, you know, so

Unknown: 00:36:49

that's a general thing of like, how am I generally and we can

Unknown: 00:36:51

start to pick apart like, Okay, I need to work on this area,

Unknown: 00:36:55

generally, for me, because I know that actually, probably

Unknown: 00:37:00

that impact is not going to be great, or that's good, or this

Unknown: 00:37:03

is not good. So that's a general one. Okay. But then we can say,

Unknown: 00:37:06

Okay, now specifically, let's walk through every single member

Unknown: 00:37:09

of my team, and go so for Li, what's the situation? Ah, yeah.

Unknown: 00:37:14

So between the between us, the specific situation where there

Unknown: 00:37:18

is actually you know, what leaves, you know, she's, she's

Unknown: 00:37:21

really not very excited about everything you say, Okay, once

Unknown: 00:37:24

you

Unknown: 00:37:26

know, I've got a complex,

Unknown: 00:37:28

excited, but you know, she doesn't care, you could just

Unknown: 00:37:31

imagine what people know, she doesn't care. She just turns up

Unknown: 00:37:34

for the money. And he's like, stop, stop, and ask yourself a

Unknown: 00:37:37

better question. Why is she not excited? Oh, okay. Well, I

Unknown: 00:37:42

haven't actually excited her by telling her where we're going.

Unknown: 00:37:47

Or she's vegan, and I'm trying to put her in a chicken factory.

Unknown: 00:37:50

And so I, as the leader now need to fix that, at the very least

Unknown: 00:37:54

have a conversation with with Lee and say, you know, this is

Unknown: 00:37:57

where we're going, you know, you don't seem very excited about

Unknown: 00:37:59

it. Oh, no, I really don't like, actually, you know, I think

Unknown: 00:38:02

you're doing it all wrong. Oh, and then if you can't convince

Unknown: 00:38:06

Lee, that that's the right way to go, then we might need to

Unknown: 00:38:09

leave her that point. But but you unless you sit down and

Unknown: 00:38:12

actually ask yourself the question, Why are that? Why is

Unknown: 00:38:14

that person behaving like that? It's a stimulus response from a

Unknown: 00:38:18

stimulus and, or lack of a stimulus. And therefore we need

Unknown: 00:38:22

to ask ourselves, what stimulus did I put in place or not? as

Unknown: 00:38:25

the case may have been? And so here we go, we've got lady she's

Unknown: 00:38:28

not very excited. So actually, I'm gonna go into and say, Do

Unknown: 00:38:31

you know that your role is super, super important? Because

Unknown: 00:38:33

this is how it impacts on the big picture. And this is what

Unknown: 00:38:36

we're trying to do. And suddenly, you turn around and

Unknown: 00:38:39

go, Oh, I never thought about it like that. That's amazing. I

Unknown: 00:38:42

feel much more engaged in where we're trying to get to, and I

Unknown: 00:38:45

really want to do my part now. Yeah. One of the really good

Unknown: 00:38:49

examples, I think of this specific thing is during COVID,

Unknown: 00:38:53

do you remember, if ever you went for your vaccinations,

Unknown: 00:38:57

everybody listening? If you did, there was always these people

Unknown: 00:39:00

standing outside, like waving you in. And then people in the

Unknown: 00:39:04

corridor waving you in the right direction and doing all the

Unknown: 00:39:06

things and they were these volunteers, or maybe they got

Unknown: 00:39:10

paid a bit, but they never got paid an awful lot of money to

Unknown: 00:39:12

stand in front of people who might have COVID all day, I

Unknown: 00:39:14

mean, seriously, like, took about a risky job, okay. And I

Unknown: 00:39:17

went to our local one to have my job done. And it was snowing

Unknown: 00:39:22

sideways. It was horribly windy and cold. And these people were

Unknown: 00:39:25

standing outside and I said, like, Hey, are you okay? They're

Unknown: 00:39:29

like, yeah, we're all good. You know, like, fine, we're fine.

Unknown: 00:39:32

And they were so happy to be standing outside in the wind and

Unknown: 00:39:36

rain. And it really struck me as like, why would you be happy to

Unknown: 00:39:41

do that on a voluntary basis? And the point is, is because

Unknown: 00:39:45

they believe in the cause. It's not because their biggest life

Unknown: 00:39:50

what's the word? exciting thing for their life? Yes, thank you.

Unknown: 00:39:52

Their mission is that they wanted to stand outside a

Unknown: 00:39:54

building and wave people in and that's not it wasn't what they

Unknown: 00:39:58

were doing.

Unknown: 00:40:00

It was why they were doing in. Okay. So even the people who are

Unknown: 00:40:04

literally just standing, pointing fingers and go that

Unknown: 00:40:08

way, we're engaged and excited and pleased to be there. And

Unknown: 00:40:14

it's a fabulous example of engaging people in the in the

Unknown: 00:40:18

reason why you're there, the mission, the vision of what

Unknown: 00:40:21

you're trying to do. And that's what I'm saying. Because if that

Unknown: 00:40:23

person, if that person says, You know what I actually like, let's

Unknown: 00:40:27

give that example. I don't believe in COVID vaccines, for

Unknown: 00:40:29

example, it didn't matter how much you paid them, you could

Unknown: 00:40:33

offer them 100 quid an hour. Actually, they might do 400 quid

Unknown: 00:40:36

now, but I doubt it. But let's say you could offer them all the

Unknown: 00:40:38

money in the world. And they're like, No, I don't want to

Unknown: 00:40:40

because I don't believe in the vaccines. And there's the

Unknown: 00:40:42

difference. So you have to make sure that person can understand,

Unknown: 00:40:46

you know, can I get excited over where you're trying to get to

Unknown: 00:40:49

otherwise there will be disruptive there will be toxic

Unknown: 00:40:51

in the environment, and you need to not have them there, if you

Unknown: 00:40:54

can't convince them, if that's where you're going, and they

Unknown: 00:40:57

want to come with you. So that's a really good example of, of

Unknown: 00:41:00

that side effects. And I find that sometimes in organizations,

Unknown: 00:41:04

the most sitting at the board level will come up with a

Unknown: 00:41:08

strategy, and then they will have a conversation about, we

Unknown: 00:41:11

need to get this out into the organization. But then they

Unknown: 00:41:14

leave it to local leaders to try and do the hearts and mind

Unknown: 00:41:19

connection piece. But they don't, again, going back to the

Unknown: 00:41:22

soft skills. No one's ever trained people how to do this,

Unknown: 00:41:25

how to have these conversations, blah, blah, blah. And so and

Unknown: 00:41:28

then they wonder why people aren't bought into the bigger

Unknown: 00:41:31

picture or don't see themselves, they see themselves working. And

Unknown: 00:41:35

we used to get this sometimes in the health service when I worked

Unknown: 00:41:38

in it, that people would be very wedded to their ward or their

Unknown: 00:41:42

department, but perhaps felt hugely disconnected to the

Unknown: 00:41:46

broader organization. And they just didn't see that. And and

Unknown: 00:41:49

it's because that investment doesn't come and go into every

Unknown: 00:41:53

level. How are we building leaders to have skilled skilled

Unknown: 00:41:57

conversations around this kind of stuff? Yeah, I think that

Unknown: 00:42:00

there's a there's I think there's there's do we do the

Unknown: 00:42:03

people have the skills to do it, the capability or the desire? Or

Unknown: 00:42:07

has the organization at the very top actually, like, really

Unknown: 00:42:11

engaged people in it? And I think what it does is it ends up

Unknown: 00:42:14

building those silos that we all know about, because now I'm, as

Unknown: 00:42:17

you say, there, I can see how what I do helps my department.

Unknown: 00:42:22

Yeah, so I am, like, totally bought in at that level. But

Unknown: 00:42:26

you're right, what happens is, is that we often in large

Unknown: 00:42:29

organizations, we might be bought in at that level, but

Unknown: 00:42:31

we're not bought in at the at the bigger level. And that might

Unknown: 00:42:33

be because they didn't give the skills to those leaders, or they

Unknown: 00:42:37

just sent an email out. And the culture is that we don't bother

Unknown: 00:42:42

telling people. So there's, there's a number of different

Unknown: 00:42:44

reasons why that might happen. It might be they don't have the

Unknown: 00:42:46

skills or the will to do it, because they don't think it's

Unknown: 00:42:49

important that comes back to that point of like, why would I?

Unknown: 00:42:54

Why would you not? And not understanding how important it

Unknown: 00:42:57

is that we actually look at the human eye and go, Why are they

Unknown: 00:43:02

not engaged? Or how can I generally get them more engaged.

Unknown: 00:43:07

And it's because well, they need that information. So we put in

Unknown: 00:43:10

the importance on that on our skill as a communicator, on our

Unknown: 00:43:14

on our skill as creator of culture, and creator of belief

Unknown: 00:43:19

of where we're going as an organization. And if we don't

Unknown: 00:43:21

bother with that, we just expect people to turn up and let's just

Unknown: 00:43:24

say, do their job as we hear. So why don't we? Why don't they

Unknown: 00:43:28

just do their job. And it's like, because really what you're

Unknown: 00:43:31

asking people to do is not just their job, because anybody could

Unknown: 00:43:35

just do the job. But it's got to be in the context of what are we

Unknown: 00:43:41

trying to achieve with the job.

Unknown: 00:43:44

And with all the in, in collaboration with all the other

Unknown: 00:43:48

people. And so it's it's that context and understanding that

Unknown: 00:43:54

brings about that, that. That part of like, I will do this for

Unknown: 00:43:59

you. Because I believe in that context and understanding. And

Unknown: 00:44:03

then the won't do is well, I will do it for you because I

Unknown: 00:44:06

believe in you.

Unknown: 00:44:08

And the can do is because I believe in me.

Unknown: 00:44:12

And our job as a leader is to help them to believe in them

Unknown: 00:44:14

enough so that they can do those good things, whether that be the

Unknown: 00:44:18

skill or the or the confidence to be able to take those

Unknown: 00:44:23

decisions. But that's our job to help them to have that

Unknown: 00:44:26

confidence. And that's where those skills of communication,

Unknown: 00:44:32

the skill of being aware of our own impact through our

Unknown: 00:44:36

behaviors, and understanding that that every contact leaves a

Unknown: 00:44:41

trace and being mindful. You know, okay, how am I showing up

Unknown: 00:44:46

today? Am I enabling people? Am I getting people on board here?

Unknown: 00:44:51

And I think a lot of the time that, you know, especially with

Unknown: 00:44:53

some larger organizations, we've lost that ability to filter that

Unknown: 00:44:58

down to everybody

Unknown: 00:45:00

And we think we've done a good job by putting it on a poster

Unknown: 00:45:03

somewhere in the corridor.

Unknown: 00:45:06

I remember those posters, and with like, a million words on so

Unknown: 00:45:09

that nobody actually read it anyway. But But like, you know,

Unknown: 00:45:12

it's not good enough for the poster in the corridor. It's got

Unknown: 00:45:14

to be lived by the leaders. It's got to be explained to

Unknown: 00:45:18

everybody. But also we need to show it in our behavior. Yeah,

Unknown: 00:45:23

yeah.

Unknown: 00:45:25

So I'm conscious of our time. Now I've got one final question

Unknown: 00:45:29

which I asked everyone. And it's the what's the one piece of

Unknown: 00:45:33

advice that you want everyone that's listening today to take

Unknown: 00:45:37

away with them? I think the biggest piece of advice is, when

Unknown: 00:45:42

you look at your team, if you're a leader, and you look at your

Unknown: 00:45:47

team is stopped saying

Unknown: 00:45:51

Bob lead Sackett, or Bob's not performing? And just ask

Unknown: 00:45:56

yourself a better question. Is this can't do is it won't do? Or

Unknown: 00:46:00

is it don't do?

Unknown: 00:46:03

And then say, what button do I need to press? What thing Do I

Unknown: 00:46:07

need to do differently? To change it? For the better?

Unknown: 00:46:12

Perfect? How can people reach out to you if they want to

Unknown: 00:46:17

connect or you know, feedback on the episode? Where can they find

Unknown: 00:46:21

you? You can find me on LinkedIn, Julie Hutchison, with

Unknown: 00:46:24

no end in the middle, or you can email me at Julie at think B do

Unknown: 00:46:29

leadership.com Or give me a shout. I've got phone number on

Unknown: 00:46:32

LinkedIn as well, if you want to find me or on my website, which

Unknown: 00:46:34

is think b Do leadership.com. And we'll put all those links in

Unknown: 00:46:38

the show notes. Well, thank you very much. I've really enjoyed

Unknown: 00:46:42

this conversation. I'll be meeting Kim been doing wine and

Unknown: 00:46:46

all of that today.

Unknown: 00:46:51

Last night, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you.

Unknown: 00:46:55

If you enjoyed the episode, please leave a review on Apple

Unknown: 00:46:58

podcasts and let me know what you thought on LinkedIn. You can

Unknown: 00:47:01

find me at Lee Griffith. I'll be back with the next episode in

Unknown: 00:47:05

two weeks time. So in the meantime, sign up to my

Unknown: 00:47:07

newsletter at Sundayskies.com for monthly insights on how else

Unknown: 00:47:10

you can lead with impact. Until next time!