About This Episode

I have a friend whose teenage daughter has a support dog. I've watched that dog quietly and consistently support a young person navigating a world that wasn't always built for her. And I'll be honest, I've probably rolled my eyes at the idea before. But then I saw it. And I thought, who's the one who should be rolling their eyes now?

That's really where this conversation begins, not with a research paper, but with a moment of honesty. And it's the perfect introduction to Laurelle Fry, who doesn't talk about dogs in schools the way you'd expect.

No grand claims. Just real stories - a boy who spent an entire school break playing with Frankie because he couldn't find his way into a friendship group. A child who jumped onto his chair in fear the first time Frankie walked in, and now runs over to say hello.

Laurelle is Head of Pre-Prep and Junior Prep at Western Province Prep School in Cape Town, and she's been bringing her rescue dog Frankie to school for years. But this conversation is really about what schools are for. Culture, belonging, regulation, and why the thing that helps a child feel safe enough to learn sometimes has four legs and a wagging tail.

She has a phrase she keeps coming back to, "home away from home." After this conversation, I couldn't stop thinking about what it actually takes to build.

In This Episode We Talk About

• How "Frankie Fridays" started and what happened on the Fridays when Frankie didn't show up.
• The difference between a therapy dog and a dog who just shows up and makes things better.
• Why the best learning doesn't happen in the quietest classroom.
• The moment a child's shoulders drop, and what that actually means for their ability to learn.
• How dogs help neurodiverse children regulate in ways that are hard to engineer any other way.
• What happened when Frankie crashed a formal chapel assembly (and why nobody flinched).
• The practical stuff nobody talks about - allergies, bathroom duties, what to do if a dog nips.
• The quiet boy, his Border Terrier puppy, and the small moment in morning drop-off that meant everything.
• Why choosing a school is really about choosing a community, and what that has to do with dogs.
• Laurelle's honest advice for any school or teacher thinking about introducing a dog into their environment.

A Moment That Stuck With Me

"As soon as he's happy, then he wants to be at school. When he wants to be at school, he wants to learn. When he wants to learn, he feels confident because he's succeeding and things are happening. So it's got this snowball effect that just happens." - Laurelle Fry

Mentioned in This Episode

• Western Province Prep School - the Cape Town school where Laurelle is Head of Pre-Prep and Junior Prep, and where both Frankie and Apalefi have the run of the place. A school building something real around culture and belonging.
• Bishop's - where Laurelle taught for 13 years and where Frankie Fridays first began.
• The SPCA - where Frankie came from. Her previous owner was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and chose to rehome her while she was still young enough to be adopted. Worth knowing, because it shapes who she is.
• Reading aloud research - the science behind children reading aloud to dogs: fluency increases, and the mechanics of reading come more easily. It's the reason Apalefi came to school in the first place. Georgette, the head of learning support, brought her in so boys could read to her instead of a teddy bear.

About Laurelle Fry

Laurelle Fry comes from a family of educators, which probably explains why she talks about school the way she does, not as a place where curriculum gets delivered, but as a living community that children either feel part of or don't.

She spent 13 years at Bishop's before moving to Western Province Prep, where she's now Head of Pre-Prep and Junior Prep. She's spent most of her career in boys' education, and she brings to it an instinct for what children actually need, not just academically, but as small humans trying to find their feet in a big world. She talks about creating a "home away from home." You can tell she means it.

She is also, it must be said, completely besotted with Frankie. I follow her on Instagram, and I can confirm there is photographic evidence of Frankie being pushed in a pram. There was a very good reason. Torn ligaments. The boys loved pushing her around. Of course they did.

Connect With Laurelle Fry

• LinkedIn: Laurelle Fry

Connect With Jude & Future Smart Parent

• 🌐 www.tomorrowtodayglobal.com/schools
• 📸 Instagram: @judefoulston
• 💼 LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/judefoulston

Some conversations make you want to be a little more patient, a little more present. This is one of those. Know a parent or teacher who'd appreciate it? Send it their way.

Welcome to the Future Smart Parent Podcast, a place where my mum explores how to help us kids develop a new set of skills we need to face the future with confidence. I'm Jude Filston, an introverted mum trying my best to raise kids who are happy and confident, kids who embrace all that makes them unique while preparing them for an exciting future that really looks nothing like the world we grew up in. I believe there's a whole set of skills that our kids aren't being taught. These skills will be critical for them to develop in order to thrive in the future. It's up to us as parents to help them develop these skills. The Future Smart Parent podcast provides resources for parents and kids who want to be ready for all the ways in which the future is going to be different from today. We will explore this future together, bringing insights from top futurists, resources from smart people working on making our lives better, and most importantly, storeys of parents who are parenting a little differently, yet very much intentionally for a changing world. So join me as we explore how we can be Future Smart Parents raising Future Smart Kids.

Today's guest is Laurelle Fry. She is the head of the Pre-Prep and Junior Prep at the Western Province Prep School in Cape Town. And I have known Laurelle for many years, and there are many fabulous things about her, but one of those is that she, well, she comes from a family of educators, and she is so very passionate about children and the love of learning, and also animals, of course, and all things fun. She's got the most beautiful laugh, And she is— there's so many things I could say about Laurelle, but welcome, Laurelle.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Um, and today we're going to talk about, um, Frankie, who is another guest on the, on, on the podcast. And Frankie is a dog, Laurelle's most precious dog. Um, and we're gonna be talking about support dogs, therapy dogs. Dogs in general in schools and the impact that they have on a learning environment. So, Laurelle, tell me about— introduce Frankie, please, uh, to our listeners, um, and the other official support dog that you have at, at the school. Tell me how, tell me how they both ended up in your school and just the storey behind that.

Yeah, I think it's important to footnote that there is no policy at Western Province Prep around dogs in schools. I think that's important to say, and it's just sort of grown in that space, and I suppose it's fairly dynamic as and when society changes, etc. But we're all very passionate about dogs at Western Province Prep at the moment. So Frankie is my baby, she's 7, and when I got her, she's from the SPCA in, um, dispatch, from dispatch, and when I got her, the idea was always that she could come to school with me. So it was one of the first questions I asked when I phoned. I saw on Facebook, and the question was, would I be able to take her to school with me? What do you think her temperament is like around children? And she was 6 months when I got her, so she was fairly old already. She wasn't a puppy as such, and, but she'd had a very loving start. Her owner had been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, and he had chosen to give her to the SPCA to rehome, knowing that His journey was coming to an end and he didn't want her to be left.

And she was young enough to be adopted. And she's got Yorkie in her. She's a real brak. She's got Yorkie in her. She's got Cairn Terrier. I think she's got Pomeranian. She's got a lot of different things, but she's quite solid. So she's 8, 9 kg. So I thought she'd be really an easy fit, like small enough to take around and move around, but big enough that if I was at a boys' school at the time, um, another boys' school, that if the boys fell on her or kick the ball and it hits her, or they could be a bit rough with her and it would be okay because you didn't want to take a dainty little precious dog to school, um, with boys, grade 3, 9-year-old boys running around. It could just be a bit dangerous. So that's how her journey started. I was in the classroom at the time and she used to come to school with me on like a Friday and very quickly turned into Frankie Fridays, and it became fairly official that she would come with me every week on a Friday, and the boys looked forward to it and If I arrived on a Friday and she wasn't with me, they were very upset and they would want to know what, when, who, and how she hadn't ended up at school.

And so interestingly enough, if I bump into boys now, they'll ask me about her. And so definitely left a memory. And then 2 and a half years ago, I moved to Western Province Prep and it was something on my mind. I wonder if I'd be able to take her with me to school. And very quickly realised that we, our head of learning support has a golden retriever who she's had since a puppy and has been through training. And Apelifi is her name. And she comes to school a couple of times in the week and she wanders around and does her own thing. And she's a, what we call an official therapy dog because she's done the training. She never wrote her exam, Georgette tells me, but she did her training. Well, she left it at that. We are okay.

We are okay with her not doing her exams at the Future Smart Parent Podcast. We celebrate that.

Exactly. No, she just, she, she's just easy to have around and she's got the real temperament of a, of a, um, therapy support dog. She's not needy of Georgette. Mine is a little bit more needy of me. She just wanders around the school and goes wherever she wants to go. Okay.

Take me back to when Frankie arrived.

Yes.

Did you sort of, what did you have to do to get permission or to take Frankie, uh, for Frankie Fridays to begin?

Yeah, I didn't actually ask any permission. Uh, the headmaster lived on campus and he had a golden retriever who roamed the school quite freely. Though. And I mean, I can't even remember what that— I was going to say that child's name was— that dog's name. But what was it? Ah, gone blank. But this dog used to come to all the parent meetings. If we had cocktail parties, this dog would wander between the parents. So I knew that my boss was very chilled when it came to dogs. So I didn't worry in the slightest. And Frankie arrived as a puppy when she was new and nobody said anything. And I think For me, and I'm sure we'll get into this at some stage in the chat, for me, it's as the owner dealing with it all in a very respectful way. So, okay, I didn't ask permission, but I read the room. I didn't just arrive with her one day knowing that no dog had ever been on campus before. I think if there wasn't that open door, I would've, would've checked, but the door seemed open. At Western Province Prep at the moment, I don't take her as much, not because I don't want to or because she's not allowed, my job doesn't allow for it as much.

I'm no longer in the classroom, so I'm running around parent meetings, exec meetings, those kinds of things. And it doesn't seem professional or appropriate to take her into those kinds of meetings. So it's, it's reading the room. It's, it's making a decision and going, you know what, it doesn't feel respectful to be going into an exec meeting or to a serious parent meeting, and I arrive with my rescue dog. It just doesn't seem right. So it's using your initiative and not pushing the boundaries so much that you offend somebody, or it looks unprofessional that somebody's got to toe the line for you. It's, it's always treading carefully.

Yeah. And I mean, it goes back to, you know, you're a professional and this is what you do, and we need to trust that more, right? Especially in school environments.

Yeah. I think. Yeah.

Agreed. Because yeah, I just, uh, I love this. Tell me. Okay. So tell me the difference, I suppose, between what Frankie, Frankie's role, um, when you were in the classroom.

Yes.

As opposed to say, what did you say?

The, your, the— Apartheid Afrikaans.

Tell me the difference between Apartheid Afrikaans and Frankie and the different roles that they play in or have played in the classroom.

So I think that with the boys, probably play a very similar role, but again, going down to temperament. So Appalifi is not as needy of Georgette and her owner, so she will run around. She'll come across— so the AHAS school's split on two campuses, and she will run from one side of the campus to the next on her own. She will go and visit Grade 2, and then she'll run into the little pre-prep, the pre-primary section, and she'll go and cause a bit of chaos there. She loves water, so in summer we have a duck pond in the crib. She'll run inside there if there's water in the duck pond and climb in with the kids. You know, she feels like she's at school. You can see she thinks she's at school. This morning we had assembly and she arrived and we were all sitting very calmly on the floor and it's like supposed to be a formal event. And she ran in between all of them and sort of sat down in the middle of all the boys. She's, you know, she doesn't need Georgette and she just roams the school as if the whole school was hers.

And quite confidently, Frankie's very much very needy of me. So while Apalefi will probably attach herself to a child and be there more for a child, Frankie doesn't have that. So not as much of a therapy dog as Apalefi would be. Although if a child needs a dog, Frankie will be there. She's not aggressive. She'll just sit there as long as I'm around. So the need, she's, she's filling a need, but in a different kind of a way to what Apalefi is. Doing, I suppose.

So, okay. So, um, I can, I can almost feel some teachers listening to this, like, like the anxiety levels increasing rapidly with the dog jumping, jumping into the duck pond and disturbing assembly. So let's, let me first ask you, what are the benefits?

Yeah.

What are the benefits? Like, why would a school ever consider bringing a dog into their environment? Let's start with that.

Yeah. I mean, there's the obvious ones, which would be very textbook in terms of like, we've done, we've read the research that dogs in terms of reading with children and children with who maybe are a little bit neurodiverse or struggling to find a friendship group, those kinds of children. The wellbeing of the child, um, dogs play a part in that. We know that research. But for me, I think a lot of it goes down to the culture, creating a culture within the school. You're creating an ecosystem. And as a leader within a school, the environment is something that you are often looking at. It's not as much just the assessments. I mean, those things are there and they are important, but the culture that you're creating and what is the culture that you're creating. And different schools create different cultures. And as a parent, when you're looking for schools, you look for a school that has a culture that you want your child to be part of. Yeah. Yeah. There's definitely distraction. 100% agree. It can be a lot of distraction, but we are also preparing these children for the real world one day. And in the real world, there are gonna be distractions.

So they very quickly realise They'll smile and they'll laugh and they'll pat her and then she'll sit down. I flipped it on its head before and I've said, you know, she's a dog, so you can't make a big noise. So we've got to actually drop the noise levels, otherwise she's going to get anxious. That empathy kicks in and then the noise level does like quieten down and you can use it as a tool within your classroom to get the boys to calm down or, oh, why don't you just go and sit with Apelifi for a while and calm her down and stroke her or Frankie. So it's how you engage with it. It's how you navigate the things that do come at you. But I mean, you can't rid a child of all distraction. You're not creating them, you're not setting them up for the real world if you've taken out every distraction. And let's be honest, best learning doesn't happen in the quietest classroom. No, best learning often happens where a child feels settled and that they belong and that they feel safe. That's the environment that you're trying to create, an environment. And I always talk about home away from home.

You're We're trying to create an environment where the child is completely themselves and they can relax and just be, feel confident, feel secure in who they are, and then learning happens. And dogs play a part in getting them there.

Or they can play a part. So answering that question, you, you said, we've got, we've read the research, we the science behind it. Speak to me as a parent who doesn't know that research. You mentioned reading, you mentioned sort of some neurodiverse kids could, it could benefit them. More kind of background on, on those, on the 3 topics that you mentioned.

Yeah.

Just so that I can understand as a parent.

So going back to Apalefi and how she came into being and to coming to school, Georgette was in the classroom. She's now the head of the learning support, so she's outside the classroom, but she was in the classroom teaching grade 2s and the science behind reading when a child reads aloud, that they learn to read faster, that fluency kicks in, the actual, um, the nuts and bolts of learning to read happen easier. And so she brought teddy bears to school. Georgette is an incredible teacher. She brought these little teddy bears to school so that each child every day could read to a different teddy bear. And very quickly realised she didn't have enough teddy bears. So it was this whole drive within the class to bring teddy bears to school. And at the same time, and I'm going to paraphrase, I might not get it entirely right, a parent in her class had golden retrievers who had puppies, and Apalephi was part of that litter. And Georgetta just lost one of her fur children, and they offered a golden retriever to her as a dog that could come to school so that the boys could read to her.

So that's how she came into being in terms of using her for boys to be able to read aloud, to chat, to, um, and just get those mechanics of reading up and going. And that's where she started. In terms of neurodiverse children, I mean, we, in this day and age, you sit with children in your classroom every year that sit somewhere on the spectrum of neurodiversity. Um, I'm not generalising here. Um, often social struggles where sometimes these children are really trying to find their space, regulation issues. And that's not just your neurodiverse children, many children with that are really finding that regulation thing quite challenging, and you sit with that dog in your classroom and they end up stroking that dog backwards and forwards and that repetitive movement that's happening. I remember at Bishop's doing break duty and a child who was really struggling to find friends, and he played with Frankie the entire break and he was happy. And as soon as he's happy, then he wants to be at school. When he wants to be at school, he wants to learn. When he wants to learn, he feels confident because he's succeeding and things are happening.

So it's got this snowball effect that just happens, and it can be simple moments. It doesn't even have to be a big research topic. You can see it playing out in front of you. A lot of these children don't have dogs at home. They don't have pets. And so, I mean, that's part of the curriculum on how to look after an animal, a pet. So you have an exposure to that at school. They learn empathy. 'Guys, it's very noisy. Apelifi Frankie's ears. Can we just be a little quieter?' And they all of a sudden calm down a bit and they become aware. Or I walk in school, 'Ma'am, can I get her some water?' And they're thinking of something other than themselves. So it's all these tiny little things. It's not even one massive thing that you've policed and documented and gone, 'It's going to do A, B, and C.' It could be the smallest thing for the smallest child. To flip it. I mean, everybody brings their dogs to school when they're dropping their children off as well. We're very, we welcome the dogs and the puppies. And there's one little boy who's very quiet.

I stand at the, at the bottom of the driveway every morning and I greet the children as they're arriving with their parents. And he got this little Border Terrier puppy and made a fuss the first day. And now this puppy became this thing. Every time the puppy arrived, I made a fuss, but this child was gentle, meek, mild, quiet, barely ever greeted me. And then one day in assembly, he got one of our weekly assembly awards and he came up and I said, "And for having one of the cutest puppies in the whole world." And he went home and he told his mum it meant something to him. Something so tiny. And now he'll stop in the morning and he'll greet me. It's still quiet, but we've engaged, we've connected. And it's, so it doesn't even have to be the therapy dog. It's a pet. It's something that's important to him, that, and something about him that you see.

I suppose also on the playground or in the social context of it, um, perhaps the, it, it gives a something common between the peers and it just, you know, I think sometimes kids just need that little almost excuse to, to engage with someone and perhaps that what That's what the animal does as well.

We do that as adults. You walk and you'll ask, what do you do? Where did you go to school? You know, all those common questions, 'cause you're trying to find that one little hook where you can build conversation around, and a dog can provide that in a social setting at school. They become, they share the ball and throw the ball for the dog. You teach, they used to teach Frankie tricks with Woolworths biltong, you know, and she would love it. And it would be like this big thing because, did you see she did this? Or let's try this. And it became a game for them. And then they became, The friendship is formed. They feel like they belong at school.

Yeah, it's so true. Uh, my very best friend, she moved to Knysna and that's how she made, I mean, not that she needs help making friends, but that is how she made a large majority of her friends was at the walking her dog. Right. And all of a sudden she's telling me about everyone in Knysna who owns a dog because they've got that common. I suppose, love of animals. I think often we forget that kids are humans too, and they have the same needs as us. And making friends, like, it doesn't come naturally to every kid, and sometimes they need help just as much as an adult in a new town needs.

And there's some boys that'll just— I mean, obviously being in boys' education now for a while, I'm thinking very boyish, but I mean, the boys will go into the playground and just play soccer, and then others will climb the jungle gym, and boys tend to go into friendship circles where— she's going to join us here— where—

ah, hi Frankie! Frankie's just joining us, so mom's getting lots of face licks.

They will go to play in a game where others are doing something that they want to do, and some children don't want to play soccer, some don't want to climb the jungle gym, so it's important to provide something else that they can do. You gonna say hi?

Yeah. Oh man. I do see, I follow Laurelle on Instagram, and if you follow her, you will see some photos of Frankie being pushed in a pram at times. And yeah, Woolworths treats. So Frankie is very much loved and a child.

The pram was only because we had to, but because she had torn the ligaments in her knee and she had knee surgery. So I had to get a pram and she had to go to school in the pram, and then the boys were all pushing her around. Yes, they loved that.

Um, yes. Thanks for reminding me there was a reason. I knew there was a reason.

You're entirely crazy.

Yeah. Well, so, okay. Talk to me about the day to day, like, so, uh, Appalifi arrives at school. Not every day. She comes on certain days.

I'm not sure which days, which it has certain days, but yeah, a couple of times in a week. Sorry, she's going to want to sit here now. Aparlefi has free roam, so she roams completely around the whole school. The one grade 3 class she tends to spend quite a lot of time in. I think that becomes— she's— this class is quite central between the two campuses, and the teacher loves dogs as well, so it could just be a location thing. And generally when The bell goes at 20 to 8, the gates get closed, so it is safe. She can wander around. Um, yeah, so at the Grade 3 class specifically, this one Grade 3 class, they love dogs. So they, they often have dogs in the classroom. The teacher's also just got a puppy at the moment, and the puppy comes to school with her, and they're very used to having dogs in their class. So I don't think there's any specific rule. It just is how the day happens. Very fluid. Okay.

I have to ask, I have to ask, 'cause I think I'm not the only one wanting to know this. What happens when Apilifi or Frankie needs to go to the bathroom and they're just roaming the school? Who, like, agreed, who takes responsibility for that? What happens when the kids are playing at break time on the grass field and no one's aware of it? Like what happens with that? It's a, it's a practical question, I suppose.

Absolutely. Well, with mine, she goes as soon as she gets to school and she's with me. Situation had gone away. But it goes back to that etiquette of the owner. So you have to realise that that is a thing. And if it became a problem, we run the risk of a school saying, 'Can't bring dogs to school anymore,' right? So, oh, I always have that in the back of my head. I can't let Frankie get to a place where she is more of a problem than anything else. There needs to be benefit for her being there. And I'm not sure how Georgette does it with Apilefi, but we never have an issue. So she must have a routine or something that Georgette is aware of. Um, but it is always at the forefront of my mind. If you bring your dog on campus, please don't ruin it because we want the dogs there. We did actually, interestingly enough, we had a parent, it's not on the topic of going to the loo, but she was bringing dropping her child in the morning and bringing her dog with her. And I did get wind that when the dog felt a little bit claustrophobic, so maybe walking down the passage, getting out the car, um, it did a bit of a nip.

And I heard about it and I listened and I wasn't sure. And then the one day I actually asked the mum and she said, yeah, it had happened. And I actually just very kindly said to her, my biggest caution is if your dog did that, and dogs do things. You just don't know. And it's with a child, I never wanna run the risk that we can't have child-friendly dogs on campus because the benefit far outweighs anything else. And she agreed with me. And so she decided she wouldn't bring the dog to school. So it's the same kind of thing, you know, if you're bringing your dog to school, make sure that you pick up after the dog. Don't, don't let it become an issue because schools very quickly have to shut that down because hygiene and those kinds of things are more important.

And I, I guess with, as with so much, it just boils down to communication, respect, and, and also the learning opportunities. We've all walked down to the beach and, you know, stood in something. And so I have no doubt that at your school, if that happened, that one of the kids would notice it, be aware of it, and hopefully deal with it. And if not, it would become a conversation of, hey guys, this shouldn't have happened, but how could we have dealt with it? Um, obviously if it happens every Friday, that's a different story. But as you say, right, it's life.

Yeah. Mistakes happen. I mean, I think the one day she did run away from me and then I had a parent, a teacher sending me a photo of her mess that she'd made closer to their classroom. And I was like, oh my goodness. And I was going to run across and she was like, no, don't worry. I've sorted it out. So. We work as a family, as a team unit, but you're not gonna have that in every school. You're not gonna have that with every parent. Some parents are not going to like the idea of dogs being at school, and that's okay.

Yeah. What you said earlier about is just finding the right community and the right environment for your child.

Yeah.

That really, yeah, it, it almost hit home of, yeah, you, you do have a choice and I personally think that schools will become more and more spaces of belonging and the community is going to start to really outweigh, I almost wanna say everything else. Yeah. Everything else will feed into it being a community. I think it's what we are craving as society. I think, um, I always talk about, you know, The connexion economy, how connexion is, um, our, it's, it's, it's our strategic advantage, um, over anything else at the moment. So yeah, it, it is about that community.

Um, it's home away from home. Hey, it's creating home when they eat so they can feel safe. They can feel like they can be themselves. Sometimes a little messy and that's okay. And we have good days and we have bad days and that's okay.

That is okay. And I also suppose, don't even, let's not talk about being messy because that's a whole different conversation in, in my head. What I did wanna ask was support dogs, like official support dogs. I've got a friend whose daughter is autistic and she has a support dog and the dog has just been amazing. With building confidence and she's a teenager now.

So, oh wow.

I've just watched the dog support this, this teen and it blows my mind really how it's helped. Do you know how it works? I mean, I'm presuming that if you need a dog and if you have an official support dog, the school does need to allow that dog.

So I don't know a lot about it, but I know that as South Africa, we are not probably where we should be in terms of it. Um, you get a specific, like a letter almost, I wanna say, but I'm sure it's more digitalized where you can go into shops and things like that. Because very quickly South African places will go, sorry, no dogs allowed. And then you've gotta prove that it's a therapy dog to go onto planes, you know, those kind of things. People are very quick to sort of roll their eyes and go, yeah, whatever, you know. So you've gotta prove it. We are not in a society yet where taking your dogs everywhere is seen as the norm, um, or seen as okay. I think a lot more free overseas.

I think we need to start sharing those stories, right? I think that's where the understanding comes from. Because I agree, and I've probably rolled my eyes myself, if I have to be honest. Yeah. But it's only when I've seen my friend's dog. Yeah. And then I'm like, actually, who's, who's the one that should be rolling their eyes now? Like sometimes it's just, you know, a little bit of, of willing to be open-minded to actually see what is happening. And I suppose I'm going to answer my own question with what you said previously, that if you do have a child who needs a support dog for themselves, then you still have to find the right school who will accept both in a way that is inclusive and accepting, not just ticking a box because they have to.

Absolutely. You know, I mean, like you speak about schools going more in terms down the line of being communities and That sense of belonging is so huge. And that sense of attachment. I'm just thinking now you're talking about your friend's child and the simplest thing where you attach to that dog. If Frankie's not with me, 'cause she spends, she's so close to me all the time. If she's not around, I feel it. Now, if you are somebody that may be neurodiverse and you sit in the world and see the world in a very different way, that dog becomes a very important part of your life. Um, if we, we need to, we need to look at a child in a holistic picture, not just an academic picture. We're not just there, like you say, to tick a box and then the day is done and you've met the criteria for the year and you may progress to grade 3 or whatever. That, those are not as important as the child feeling confident, the child feeling like they belong. Do you know, you want them to grow up I speak often about developing lifelong learners or lifelong musos or lifelong— we're creating the next generation who are gonna be somebody's husband, wife, best friend.

The way that's gonna happen is not the amount of knowledge that they have. I mean, those are gonna be important, so we can't miss that. So don't read into what I'm not saying. But if a child is confident and they feel like they're the bee's knees, they're gonna thrive and they're going to soar regardless of what their challenges are, or if they recognise that their challenges are okay, 'cause we've all got challenges, or their strengths are not something to brag about or flaunt, that we've all got our strengths and then we play into them. It's teaching those kinds of skills that see you into life. So the school needs to create that environment where we look holistically, not just at the academics.

I do think that, look, I can't stand this, it's the parents' faults, it's the teachers' faults. It's this, this blame that happens everywhere. Let's, let's on social media, because it's not a, it's, it's, it's not a teacher versus parent, parent versus teacher. This is an us problem. This is a society problem, right? And we have to work together. And if we think about what, uh, sort of the input that our children or all of us get now compared to 10 years ago, 20 years, it's extreme. So it's no wonder that we are all, all a little bit frazzled and I do think that it's all of our responsibilities to find, to intentionally find spaces where we can help all of us, but more importantly, children to regulate. And I know the nervous system and regulation, it's very much a buzzword at the moment, but I don't think it's a buzzword out of nowhere. And I I see when my own teenager spends a day on the river, like I just see how nature helps him just regulate. That is, and he knows that he's learned that. Um, when you see a child stroking a dog in the park, you can see their shoulders go down, right?

Absolutely.

If it's, if it's letting your class, I suppose, lie down under a tree for 5 minutes. And think. I think it's up to all of us, families and schools, to help create more of those moments. Yeah. And that becomes part of our culture, right? Because again, I think that's probably, maybe not more, but as important as learning to repeat the periodic table.

Absolutely. But again, you know, different schools, different systems, different ecosystems, different cultures, different environments, and it's okay. You can— the school that I'm teaching at now is in competition with the school I was at. We're 5Ks away, and I often have parents asking, okay, so what's your comparison? There is no comparison. You choose a school that best suits your child and what your child needs and the values that you have as a family. So maybe one family does value academics above all else, then choose a school that matches that. Others of us maybe choose a school that likes a bit of mess, you know, then choose that. Another parent might like the idea that there's dogs on campus, choose that. So it's finding the school that has a culture that best suits you and your family because it is a community. And you're going to grow up with that whole community as your children grow up. So you need to fit in with what feels right for you as a family. But I do agree with the regulation thing. It is a buzzword, but we weren't taught that as children. We weren't taught that when you felt like you were spiralling, that there were things we could do to calm ourselves down or to wake ourselves up if we were falling asleep while we were listening to a lecture, we just had to sit through it, you know.

But there are things that you can do and you can teach children to do. And one of them could be as simple as sitting next to the dog and stroking the dog or lying under the tree and the dog lies next to you and you just got your hand on the dog and that can bring a sense of calmness. It could be that simple.

Do you have any, uh, do you have any feel-good storeys of when Appalifi or Frankie have kind of just I don't know, done something and you're like, yes, that's why they're here.

I've had a few neurodiverse children go through my class over the years. And for me, that's always been the most precious to watch. It's the most incredible thing with Frankie. They, they almost drawn to each other and to see the joy in that child's face and the dog chooses them. There is definitely a joy that comes from seeing the child who's Finding it hard to be in that, maybe very sensory overloaded in a system that's, it's a lot. And to see them just absolutely relax and look forward to seeing Frankie. She did do one, this is a funny story, I'll tell you a funny one rather. So I was at Bishop's for 13 years, so it was assembly, but a formal assembly. I think it could have been like a chapel assembly, and she came with me. So obviously I can't take her to the assembly, so I'd lock her in my classroom while I went across the road. And it was across the road in the hall. And it's this very— teachers sit on stage and it's all very formal. And Greg, who was the headmaster, was praying. And I sort of noticed out the corner of my eye that the path down the middle of all the boys, sort of like the Red Sea, opened it up.

And I sort of wondered what was going on. And the next thing, across the left to the right of the stage, He shot across and right out the other side again. And I'd realised she doesn't like being alone. She'd pushed the doors open from anxiety herself, and she had run in and she was looking for me. But the cute part was the boys just parted sea and let her do it, and nobody flinched. And Greg carried on praying, and that was the end of that. But going back to the distraction thing, it was— they knew she was there, and they knew she had to keep quiet, and she just did her thing and they did their thing. Sorry, that doesn't really answer your question, but I thought of that as we were talking.

No, but I love that because that's, that's also just about embracing those kinds of moments, right? And understanding that it's those moments that, I mean, those kids in that assembly, they're going to remember that. A lot of them are going to remember that moment and perhaps tell that storey sometime down the line because it's those moments that make up life, right? It's, it's those small moments.

It's just life. We do life together. Hmm. The neurodiverse one is my rewards. It's those children. They always are my rewards with her there, or when they ask about her afterwards, children, and they go, how's Frankie? Or where's Frankie? Or those kinds of things. Those are my rewards.

I've got a, I've got a real soft spot for neurodiverse children. So I love that example. And it also makes me think of the kids who are not, you know, there's a spectrum and it's those kids who are working so hard every single day because they have neurodiversity, but they're still presenting as neurotypical. And I just love that those kids who, yeah, who it's, it's hard, it's hard for, um, also get that opportunity to just, yeah, be seen by the dogs and to have their shoulders relax, right? 'Cause we all want that, right? No matter who we are.

My most incredible thing is when she comes to school and a child is scared of a dog.

Mm-hmm.

So we had now at the beginning of the year, one of our little Grade N boys, so they're 4 turning 5, when he saw her walking into the classroom, he jumped onto his chair. He got such a fright. He was genuinely terrified. And I just stood next to him and I put my hand on the child, and then Frankie came closer and I gently stroked Frankie and I said, 'You see, she's fine.' And eventually, slowly, he sat on his chair. And now Frankie comes to school, he'll run over to say hello to her. For me, that is incredible because a child should never be terrified of a little dog. It means they haven't had the right exposure. And we've set him up for success that he can be out and about and a dog can arrive and he's not going to be terrified. And then you teach him how to address the dog and what can you do. Let's be gentle. You touch Frankie here. Don't pull on her tail. You know, all of those basic things that some children don't get. So for me, that's also a massive reward.

I think it's amazing. So, so, um, your advice just to close this off. It's been a beautiful conversation, so thank you. To close it off, advice for schools, teachers who think, wow, this is really an incredible thing that I would love to introduce to our school. What would be your advice, I guess, as a starting point to get to embrace this?

Yeah, open conversations to start. I mean, we have to also be aware that there are children with allergies. So if you are going to, maybe you're looking at getting a dog that's to take to school, and before you've even had the conversation with the leadership within your school, that was one thing choosing Frankie, I was choosing a dog that had Yorkie in her with the hope that she was hypoallergenic. I didn't, I wanted a rescue dog. I didn't want to buy a dog that was my own choice. So looking for, I was looking for a breed that was known for being more hypoallergenic. And then to have those conversations ahead of time with leadership, Talking about, you know, cultures within. Some cultures don't like dogs within the school, so you've got to be aware of those, being respectful of everybody. Everybody's got a story, but you can't make that decision in a school brand new without the leadership support and the alignment right from there. And then do your research as to what your intention actually is around having the dog at school, so that you educate everybody, all stakeholders, not just the leadership, you know, parents, the boys.

Why have we got this dog here? What is her— what's her purpose? You know, so that everyone understands it. And then to, to be, um, to be aware of the etiquette that comes and the responsibility that comes with having a dog on campus. You know, your ducks in a row, basically. Keep your house clean. Make sure that there's no room for anyone to turn around and point fingers and say, but your dog did this. And it is a responsibility. And just like, because now my job is so busy, I have chosen not to take her all the time, as much as I would love to, because I don't want to ruin a good thing. So she comes with me when I can, and I don't push it when I can't. And yeah, as a teacher or whoever, to make those decisions carefully and then to realise the weight of responsibility that you hold.

Amazing.

Amazing.

Thank you. And now I know that our listeners are going to want to see some photos of both Frankie and Apalefi, and I will 100% put some links into the show notes so that you can, um, so that you can see these two. Well, I can only speak on behalf of Frankie. She's absolutely gorgeous.

I have no doubt Apalefi It's like the bigger version. They often ask me, is Frankie Appaleafy's baby? Because Frankie's like the smaller version of her. I'm like, no, we put her in the tumble dryer and she shrunk.

See, learning every day. Thanks, Laurelle. I really appreciate you being on here and yeah, for educating us here. So thank you.

Such a pleasure. Thank you.