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Effective Communication and Overcoming Subconscious Barriers of Your Teen or Employee with Ashley Ikeda
Episode 275th October 2023 • Speak In Flow • Melinda Lee
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Welcome to another episode of the Speak in Flow Podcast with your host, Melinda Lee. In today's episode, we have a special guest, Ashley Ikeda, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT #120013) from San Francisco. She shares her journey and insights into effective communication and overcoming barriers.

Segment 1: Meet Ashley Ikeda

Ashley Ikeda's background and journey into the mental health field. Her passion for helping individuals from diverse backgrounds. The pivotal moment in her undergrad years that led her to pursue a career in counseling. Ashley's diverse clinical experiences and her holistic, trauma-informed approach to therapy. How she blends client-centered, strengths-based, and relational perspectives into her work.

Segment 2: Effective Communication Tips to Motivate Others

The importance of effective communication in motivating and inspiring others. Key strategies and tips for communicating in a way that empowers and motivates. The role of empathy and active listening in building strong connections. Practical advice for leaders, educators, and anyone looking to motivate and engage with others.

Segment 3: Overcoming Subconscious Fears in Communication

e authentic and meaningful conversations. An exploration of how our subconscious fears can create barriers to communication. Identifying common fears and anxieties that hinder effective communication. Strategies to recognize and overcome these barriers, both personally and in our interactions with others. How understanding our fears can lead to mor

Segment 4: The Art of Active Listening

The significance of active listening in fostering better communication. Ashley Ikeda's expert tips for becoming a more active and engaged listener. Real-life examples and scenarios to illustrate the power of active listening. How active listening can transform relationships and deepen connections.

Segment 5: Using Authority Effectively

A discussion on how to use authority effectively in communication. The balance between assertiveness and empathy in authority. Tips for leaders and individuals in positions of authority to inspire trust and cooperation. Insights into building authority while maintaining healthy relationships.

Thank you, Ashley Ikeda, for joining us on this insightful episode.

Don't forget to follow Speak in Flow on social media and subscribe to the podcast for more valuable insights into effective communication and personal growth. Join us next time for another inspiring conversation.

MeetAshley Ikeda:

I am a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (LMFT #120013) and I received my Master’s in Marriage and Family Therapist at Golden Gate University in San Francisco. Growing up, I always knew that I wanted to be in the profession of helping people and as a San Francisco native, I became interested in working with individuals of all cultural, socio-economical, and gender backgrounds. It wasn’t until I took an Introduction to Psychology course during my undergrad years that I developed an interest in working in the mental health field. My curiosity of human nature and passion for helping others fueled my desire to pursue a career in counseling. After graduating from a Master’s program, I completed my licensure hours working in a variety of clinical positions at schools, assisted living facilities, private-practice, non-profit, and for-profit settings. I also received a certificate in Trauma studies at JFK University which further helped me to understand the importance of working a holistic, integrative approach, and trauma-informed approach. I incorporate a blend of client-centered, strengths-based, and relational perspectives into my work with clients to facilitate connection, choice and meaning.

Instagram link: @aitherapy

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/ashley-ikeda

I enjoy reading, finding new places to explore in the East Bay, and spending time with friends and family!

About Melinda:

Melinda Lee is a Presentation Skills Expert, Speaking Coach and nationally renowned Motivational Speaker. She holds an M.A. in Organizational Psychology, is an Insights Practitioner, and is a Certified Professional in Talent Development as well as Certified in Conflict Resolution. For over a decade, Melinda has researched and studied the state of “flow” and used it as a proven technique to help corporate leaders and business owners amplify their voices, access flow, and present their mission in a more powerful way to achieve results.

She has been the TEDx Berkeley Speaker Coach and worked with hundreds of executives and teams from Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Caltrans, Bay Area Rapid Transit System, and more. Currently, she lives in San Francisco, California, and is breaking the ancestral lineage of silence.

Website: https://speakinflow.com/

Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/speakinflow

Instagram: https://instagram.com/speakinflow

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpowerall

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Transcripts

Melinda Lee:

Hello Today, my guess is Ashley, Ikeda. She's a

Melinda Lee:

licenced Marriage and Family Therapist and counsellor. I

Melinda Lee:

brought her on because as you all know, we have lots of

Melinda Lee:

communication breakdowns and families, it can be quite

Melinda Lee:

stressful. And so I wanted to hear from her expertise, what

Melinda Lee:

are some communication strategies to be able to

Melinda Lee:

overcome some of these breakdowns and build more solid

Melinda Lee:

relationships. And we're talking specifically around the

Melinda Lee:

communication between parent and child. I find it fascinating

Melinda Lee:

that even in the workplace, as a manager, the dynamic between

Melinda Lee:

parent and child is very similar between a manager and an

Melinda Lee:

employee. And so we're going to learn from Ashley, what are the

Melinda Lee:

specific strategies that can build people up, motivate them,

Melinda Lee:

or cause them to break down, and most of them, were actually not

Melinda Lee:

aware of what we're doing what we're saying to break people

Melinda Lee:

down. So if you have an authority over somebody, this is

Melinda Lee:

the best episode for you to learn how to use appropriate

Melinda Lee:

language in a powerful, effective way. I hope you enjoy

Melinda Lee:

it. Hi, Ashley, so glad you're here.

Ashley Ikeda:

Hi Melinda, thank you so much for inviting me

Melinda Lee:

Oh my God, you have so much experience and knowledge

Melinda Lee:

in this area. So I just want to dive right in terms of all the

Melinda Lee:

families that you've been supporting and helping. There's

Melinda Lee:

got to be a lot of different good communication and also in

Melinda Lee:

effective communication, ways of talking to each other. And so

Melinda Lee:

when you think about communication, what do you think

Melinda Lee:

about off the bat? And in terms of communicating with family?

Ashley Ikeda:

Yes. So in my position, I've been a licenced

Ashley Ikeda:

therapist for about six years. And so I've seen communication

Ashley Ikeda:

in in all sorts of forms, right. And I think the first thing that

Ashley Ikeda:

comes to mind is ineffective or unhelpful communication. And I,

Ashley Ikeda:

in my experience, I think there are both conscious, mostly

Ashley Ikeda:

unconscious biases that affect not only our way of

Ashley Ikeda:

communicating but affect our ability to listen and really

Ashley Ikeda:

hear what the other person is saying.

Melinda Lee:

So it's clowns, like because it's unconscious,

Melinda Lee:

we're not aware of it. And we all have them. And this type of

Melinda Lee:

unconscious lens, we all have it, and it prevents us from

Melinda Lee:

really hearing the other person.

Ashley Ikeda:

Right, so in my position, I work a lot with

Ashley Ikeda:

families, parents and teens especially.

Melinda Lee:

Yeah, There is a lot going on there a lot of

Melinda Lee:

baggage and different lenses. We don't want to hear somebody.

Ashley Ikeda:

Oh, yes, right. Not only is there the family

Ashley Ikeda:

history, but there might be trauma history. There's also

Ashley Ikeda:

cultural and generational differences that affect the way

Ashley Ikeda:

that we communicate. And the unconscious biases that I was

Ashley Ikeda:

referring to, we call them cognitive distortions. So

Ashley Ikeda:

they're thoughts that not only distort your perception, but it

Ashley Ikeda:

also affects the way that you see yourself how you see others

Ashley Ikeda:

how you see the world. And it also influences your emotions.

Melinda Lee:

So can you speak about that from the parents

Melinda Lee:

perspective? So what is happening with the parent, when

Melinda Lee:

they have these cognitive distortions? And what is the

Melinda Lee:

lens that they are speaking from?

Ashley Ikeda:

I think one of the most common ones are all or

Ashley Ikeda:

nothing thinking or black or white thinking. And also should

Ashley Ikeda:

statements.

Melinda Lee:

Wow, yeah. So what does that sound like?

Ashley Ikeda:

So I think typically, we label things as

Ashley Ikeda:

good or bad. Right? So I think of a teen is coming to the to

Ashley Ikeda:

their parent with an issue. Sometimes it's really hard for

Ashley Ikeda:

the parent to see the shades of grey that the teen might be

Ashley Ikeda:

experiencing, like, let's say, for example, teen is coming to

Ashley Ikeda:

their parents sharing that they recently use substances. Right?

Ashley Ikeda:

And instead of apparent coming from a place of curiosity, I

Ashley Ikeda:

think it automatically goes to a place of judgement. Oh, this is

Ashley Ikeda:

bad. Yeah. My team should not be doing this. Yeah. And instantly,

Ashley Ikeda:

there's a blocking communication.

Melinda Lee:

yeah I'm surprised actually, I would think that by

Melinda Lee:

now. But I'm just assuming by now that most parents are

Melinda Lee:

starting To be more open, or are you seeing seeing the is still a

Melinda Lee:

lot of black and white thinking you're bad, or you're good?

Ashley Ikeda:

I'm I'm definitely seeing more of a shift towards

Ashley Ikeda:

understanding and realising that not everything is good or bad.

Ashley Ikeda:

But I still don't think that there's enough education that's

Ashley Ikeda:

provided generally, unless you've seen a therapist, you

Ashley Ikeda:

wouldn't know about cognitive distortions. And we have a lot

Ashley Ikeda:

of parents who come to us who have a general understanding of

Ashley Ikeda:

mental health, but I think there's still a lot to be

Ashley Ikeda:

learned. Yeah, yeah, I think the pandemic or the the, the

Ashley Ikeda:

pandemic has really, I think, normalised therapy, but I think

Ashley Ikeda:

the problem is, is that a lot of the teams are coming to us for

Ashley Ikeda:

therapy, but I know that in order for the team to change,

Ashley Ikeda:

the whole family needs to change.

Melinda Lee:

Right, right. Right. And so when the parent is

Melinda Lee:

speaking from probably, and so tell me a little bit more about

Melinda Lee:

how that usually the communication, how it comes

Melinda Lee:

across, like you say, they start to blame or shirt or, or label

Melinda Lee:

the child as your bad. They might start using words as like

Melinda Lee:

blaming words. So how can you do that? You're, you're you're

Melinda Lee:

you're wrong. What did you do and blame the child? And not

Melinda Lee:

necessarily take as much responsibility even though they

Melinda Lee:

might feel it? Yeah.

Ashley Ikeda:

So we learn how to communicate through our parents.

Ashley Ikeda:

Right? Socially culturally.

Melinda Lee:

Yeah.

Ashley Ikeda:

So if if you if you were taught to in that way,

Ashley Ikeda:

using blaming statements are, these are some of the common

Ashley Ikeda:

unhealthy, okay, communication strategies that parents use. And

Ashley Ikeda:

this is that sounds like blaming and accusing, like, Oh, you did

Ashley Ikeda:

it again? What's wrong with you? Like, let's say, like, a team

Ashley Ikeda:

puts a youth trying to cook something, and he puts his pan

Ashley Ikeda:

on the on the stove and starts to like, it starts to burn,

Ashley Ikeda:

right? So the parent may instantly blame and accused say,

Ashley Ikeda:

Oh, you did it again. You put oil in the pan, and you just

Ashley Ikeda:

left the room? What's wrong with you? You could have started a

Ashley Ikeda:

fire. Yeah, but that might sound like blaming and accusing.

Ashley Ikeda:

There's also name calling me and this could sound like how could

Ashley Ikeda:

you forget to walk your bike? Right? That was stupid. No

Ashley Ikeda:

wonder it got stolen. I can't believe you're solely

Ashley Ikeda:

responsible.

Melinda Lee:

That brings back memories. I wouldn't my dad used

Melinda Lee:

to say you're stupid. You're never gonna graduate. You don't

Melinda Lee:

know what you're doing. And his in his mind. He thinks that he's

Melinda Lee:

helping me. I mean, that was his upbringing. And that's probably

Melinda Lee:

how he was taught. Right. And so for him, for him to do that to

Melinda Lee:

me. I think he thinks that I mean, did you experience

Melinda Lee:

something like that? Definitely. It's a criticism, and they feel

Melinda Lee:

like that's how I'm going to help this person.

Ashley Ikeda:

Yes, it took me a long time to understand the

Ashley Ikeda:

difference between intent versus impact. Right, I received the

Ashley Ikeda:

same kind of upbringing. And while I believe that my parents

Ashley Ikeda:

had good intentions, right, she was trying to raise me to be a

Ashley Ikeda:

respectful person. But at the same time, the impact it had on

Ashley Ikeda:

me, I think, was damaging, right? Because I started to

Ashley Ikeda:

believe that everything I did reflected me as a person, the

Ashley Ikeda:

grades that I got the, the job that I had. And so I think it

Ashley Ikeda:

becomes really detrimental to a person's self esteem when

Ashley Ikeda:

they're being told you're stupid. You're dumb for doing

Ashley Ikeda:

these things, and then we internalise that belief. Gosh, I

Melinda Lee:

thought I was stupid for the longest time.

Melinda Lee:

That's why I went to GGU with you, when I saw you getting my

Melinda Lee:

masters. I was like, I'm gonna prove them wrong. So pardon him.

Melinda Lee:

It did work a little bit, because I wanted to prove him

Melinda Lee:

wrong. But at the same time, I know that was slow, like having

Melinda Lee:

me steady flow for a long time. One of the benefits of

Melinda Lee:

capitalising on someone's strengths or values, I think

Melinda Lee:

they just have a much better easier time and more flow and

Melinda Lee:

growth and expansion, versus a push or a pull or approving. I

Melinda Lee:

don't know what I mean. What are your thoughts around that? Like?

Melinda Lee:

Yeah

Ashley Ikeda:

Well I think guilt has been used as, as a tool,

Ashley Ikeda:

right to keep people in the pack. Right, so we're ancestors

Ashley Ikeda:

of hunter gatherers, right? So we lived in tribes. And in order

Ashley Ikeda:

to keep a person in tribe, you, a person would have to use shame

Ashley Ikeda:

or guilt to keep them in. Yeah, yeah, I think there's that

Ashley Ikeda:

unconscious bias. But also, we have a negativity bias built

Ashley Ikeda:

into their brain, right. So it's much easier to point out the

Ashley Ikeda:

things that a person is doing wrong than it is to point than

Ashley Ikeda:

it is to point out when someone is doing something, right. And

Ashley Ikeda:

then also, I think we live in a very fear based mindset. Where,

Ashley Ikeda:

you know, a lot of our actions come out of fear. And I think a

Ashley Ikeda:

lot of parents have fears for their children. And I think we

Ashley Ikeda:

try to use like you're seeing with the flow mindset, right?

Ashley Ikeda:

Like, we use a growth based mindset, and wow, the person's

Ashley Ikeda:

strengths. Because I think that goes a long way. Because let's

Ashley Ikeda:

just say, you know, a team gets a bad grade on a test. And the

Ashley Ikeda:

parent is like, oh, what's wrong with you? How could you get that

Ashley Ikeda:

up? You're so stupid, that team will most likely never want to

Ashley Ikeda:

be a part of that classic. Right? Versus the parents, and

Ashley Ikeda:

hey, that's okay. Right? Mistakes happen. This is how you

Ashley Ikeda:

learn. This is how you grow. We can work on this. Yeah, I don't

Ashley Ikeda:

probably feel more motivating for the team to want to do more

Ashley Ikeda:

of that.

Melinda Lee:

Right? Right. So same thing with managers, right?

Melinda Lee:

So manager, you're talking about a parent and teen dynamic, where

Melinda Lee:

a parent will reprimand the teen and then the team doesn't want

Melinda Lee:

to do the activity or the homework and, and so similar

Melinda Lee:

dynamic with a manager and also an employee? Correct, right? It

Melinda Lee:

says a power you have to do you do have authority over this

Melinda Lee:

person. And so how you use your words, in terms of how to

Melinda Lee:

motivate that person is so important, right? If you're

Melinda Lee:

reprimanding the person, they're just in fear. And is that really

Melinda Lee:

what you want? Is that really going to create the outcome from

Melinda Lee:

a fear based mode versus someone that is free to, to because they

Melinda Lee:

feel confident because they feel they're not afraid of messing

Melinda Lee:

up? Right? Because if they're afraid of messing up, I found

Melinda Lee:

that is when people start to contract, and then it becomes

Melinda Lee:

worse. So if they're, if you're open as a manager, to allowing

Melinda Lee:

them to just mess up, as long as it's a safe area safe place,

Melinda Lee:

then they're going to be more open and experiment and get

Melinda Lee:

creative. And then they end up succeeding and doing things that

Melinda Lee:

are even, you know, beyond what you probably would have thought

Melinda Lee:

because they had the freedom to

Ashley Ikeda:

Right. Yeah, I think that's the

Melinda Lee:

growth mindset. Go ahead.

Ashley Ikeda:

Yeah. I just wanted to kind of piggyback off

Ashley Ikeda:

of what you were saying, right, in terms of managers and parents

Ashley Ikeda:

using punitive and harsh and critical ways of maybe improving

Ashley Ikeda:

their team, right, we talked about the the difference between

Ashley Ikeda:

intent versus impact. But I think the consequence of that

Ashley Ikeda:

strategy is that it damages the relationship. Yeah, right. This

Ashley Ikeda:

person will no longer wants to come to you when they are

Ashley Ikeda:

experiencing a problem. Right. And then now maybe they're

Ashley Ikeda:

they're, they're hiding their work or hiding the things that

Ashley Ikeda:

they're doing.

Melinda Lee:

Right. And parents, their wives, my daughter or my

Melinda Lee:

son in the room all the time. Yeah. Right. So

Ashley Ikeda:

I talked about keeping the lines of

Ashley Ikeda:

communication open. And in order for that to happen, there needs

Ashley Ikeda:

to be trust. And trust goes both ways. Right? I think trust has

Ashley Ikeda:

to be earned.

Melinda Lee:

So let's say what a parent has, there's some open

Melinda Lee:

line of communication, there's some trust there, what are some

Melinda Lee:

ways like and if I'm a parent, and I want to, I want to what

Melinda Lee:

does that call out a certain behaviour that I think that can

Melinda Lee:

be improved? Or that they can change? Like, what are some

Melinda Lee:

statements or suggestions that you have?

Ashley Ikeda:

So I think the first I think the first skill

Ashley Ikeda:

that needs to be taught in practice is active listening.

Ashley Ikeda:

And I think a lot of people think active listening is much

Ashley Ikeda:

harder than it actually is. Right? And yes, it is. It is

Ashley Ikeda:

complicated, because you do have to be aware of of your

Ashley Ikeda:

unconscious biases and also be aware of your thoughts and

Ashley Ikeda:

feelings that might come up if this a teen or an employee is

Ashley Ikeda:

coming to you in a place of distress. So you're kind of

Ashley Ikeda:

you're you're paying attention to both how you're, what you're

Ashley Ikeda:

thinking and how you're feeling and also trying to understand

Ashley Ikeda:

what another person is thinking and feeling Right. But in terms

Ashley Ikeda:

of active listening, the use of I statements is really

Ashley Ikeda:

important. Because so an if statement to sound like I think,

Ashley Ikeda:

or I feel, or I observed, I think a lot of people start off

Ashley Ikeda:

the sense with the word you, which can make a person feel

Ashley Ikeda:

defensive, and then they'll shut down and there is no longer that

Ashley Ikeda:

open line of communicating. The person has gone into that fight

Ashley Ikeda:

flight or freeze state.

Melinda Lee:

Right, right. Right. I love that. All right,

Melinda Lee:

right. So first, knowing where you're coming in with the

Melinda Lee:

unconscious bias or certain assumptions, beliefs, and then

Melinda Lee:

knowing that the other person also has them too. And so you

Melinda Lee:

know, how, like being aware of them as much as we can, and then

Melinda Lee:

moving more into active listening, trying to be present

Melinda Lee:

with the person actively listening to where they're at.

Melinda Lee:

And then using I statements, I language, so that I hear this.

Melinda Lee:

So let me understand. I had you know, if I get the straight, I

Melinda Lee:

hear this, I'm noticing this. And so then that way, it's sends

Melinda Lee:

this message that I am trying to listen, I'm trying to be here

Melinda Lee:

for you, versus trying to blame you for something. Right?

Ashley Ikeda:

Yeah, I think in my work with parents, they

Ashley Ikeda:

instantly jump into solution mode. Yeah. Right. Right. And

Ashley Ikeda:

they're they're trying to fix the problem, instead of just

Ashley Ikeda:

listening. Which is some, maybe something that all the person

Ashley Ikeda:

needs, maybe they don't need a solution, maybe they just need

Ashley Ikeda:

someone to listen. Right. And I think people really feel like

Ashley Ikeda:

they have to come up with the perfect response. But I shared

Ashley Ikeda:

this video often with parents, it's a video by Brene Brown,

Ashley Ikeda:

who's an amazing psychologist who talks about the difference

Ashley Ikeda:

between empathy and sympathy. Right? So empathy is really

Ashley Ikeda:

stepping into another person's shoes and being with them. And

Ashley Ikeda:

sympathy. It's a really cute little video where there's like,

Ashley Ikeda:

an animal down in the hole. And sympathy is kind of going into

Ashley Ikeda:

that hole with them and being with them. And sympathy is kind

Ashley Ikeda:

of this animal that's looking down into the hole, right and

Ashley Ikeda:

saying, oh, yeah, it really sucks down there. Yeah, yeah.

Ashley Ikeda:

And then they say the words, but at least right? Well, at least

Ashley Ikeda:

you have this and at least you have that.

Melinda Lee:

Yeah, all parents do that because they're trying

Melinda Lee:

to come like, they don't want the child to be hurting. So

Melinda Lee:

they'll just reframe it and say, at least it's not that bad. At

Melinda Lee:

least you have this, oh, I'm sorry, you're down there, and

Melinda Lee:

you're hurting. But at least there's this because we want we

Melinda Lee:

want to bring them the solution. And like you said, sometimes

Melinda Lee:

they just want you to be with them. Maybe the sadness with

Melinda Lee:

them or the disappointment. You know, they didn't get you know,

Melinda Lee:

when when rolled into they didn't get selected for the

Melinda Lee:

sports team. Well, whatever that is, right. Yeah, yeah. So tell

Melinda Lee:

me again, I mean, I'm so I love this stuff. I really love this

Melinda Lee:

stuff. Because I really I know that so many parents, managers

Melinda Lee:

are out there out there and just not having the right statements

Melinda Lee:

communication way to communicate with them. And I think this is

Melinda Lee:

so powerful and effective.

Melinda Lee:

And I don't know if we went back into what are those if I didn't

Melinda Lee:

need to correct or give them feedback about a specific

Melinda Lee:

behaviour, the eye language, there are certain statements

Melinda Lee:

like, we want to be direct, like how do we be direct and also

Melinda Lee:

empathetic at the same time without causing defensiveness?

Melinda Lee:

Do you have some tools for that?

Ashley Ikeda:

Yeah, so I think the first thing is maybe to

Ashley Ikeda:

externalise what a person might be feeling in order to create

Ashley Ikeda:

empathy. Right? So let's just say a team gets a bad grade on a

Ashley Ikeda:

test, right? Okay. Um,

Melinda Lee:

and they haven't studied, right? So let's just

Melinda Lee:

say, it's not only about the grade, but it's like, Hey, I

Melinda Lee:

noticed that you're out playing football or out watching TV, and

Melinda Lee:

then and then you get the bad grades. So we're noticing that

Melinda Lee:

the behaviour that led up to the bad grades that we want to call

Melinda Lee:

out how do we say that in an empathetic way?

Ashley Ikeda:

So there's a scene of psychology we say name it's

Ashley Ikeda:

attainment, okay, right, because emotions really do influence our

Ashley Ikeda:

thoughts and our behaviours, right? So most likely, this teen

Ashley Ikeda:

is already feeling guilty and bad about getting this bad

Ashley Ikeda:

grade. And if you instantly go into that solution Problem

Ashley Ikeda:

Solving now this you're not really empathising or validating

Ashley Ikeda:

this team's feelings. So first, they might say, hey, you know, I

Ashley Ikeda:

noticed that you're feeling really upset. Right? Is there?

Ashley Ikeda:

Is there anything that happened today? So you want to just kind

Ashley Ikeda:

of pose a question, right? And use that

Melinda Lee:

naming it and naming the feeling,

Ashley Ikeda:

naming that feeling first. And you can also

Ashley Ikeda:

use yourself as an example, right? Like, oh, gosh, I'd be

Ashley Ikeda:

really frustrated or sad. If I got an F on my math on my math

Ashley Ikeda:

test.

Melinda Lee:

Right, right. Okay. Right. So we're naming it and

Melinda Lee:

then to tame it. So I'm frustrated and naming that

Melinda Lee:

feeling or that emotion. i Yeah, that's frustrating. You got that

Melinda Lee:

F? Or that's yeah, I'd be frustrated too. Like that. Okay.

Melinda Lee:

Yeah.

Ashley Ikeda:

And then you want to really, you want to

Ashley Ikeda:

externalise the problem, and have them understand that

Ashley Ikeda:

they're not the problem that but that this problem is here. Yes,

Ashley Ikeda:

that we are both as a team tackling the same side, we're

Ashley Ikeda:

not we're not against each other. But we need to figure out

Ashley Ikeda:

a solution to this problem. Yes, sometimes a person may not be

Ashley Ikeda:

ready for it yet. Right. So I always like to ask first, what

Ashley Ikeda:

do you need in this moment? Right, maybe, maybe this person

Ashley Ikeda:

just needs some space? Then when they're ready, when they're

Ashley Ikeda:

feeling more regulated? Because we can't You can't. You can't

Ashley Ikeda:

think rationally. While you're feeling stressed, or anxious or

Ashley Ikeda:

overwhelmed. Yeah.

Melinda Lee:

So many times, parents, managers, okay, let's

Melinda Lee:

come up with a solution. What are we going to do to fix this?

Melinda Lee:

How are we going to fix this? So you're saying like to ask for

Melinda Lee:

permission? Right? Like ask for permission? What do you need

Melinda Lee:

right now?

Ashley Ikeda:

Meeting a person where they're at? Yeah, yeah.

Ashley Ikeda:

Right. Right, instead of trying to rush the process, right?

Ashley Ikeda:

Because again, if if they're in that fight, fight or free state,

Ashley Ikeda:

you're not going to get a logical rational response. Yeah.

Melinda Lee:

Right. Right. Love it. So and then once they are

Melinda Lee:

feeling okay, they're ready, then what do we say to them? I

Melinda Lee:

love the and then also that the problem is outside? How do you

Melinda Lee:

do that? What are some statements? How do you

Melinda Lee:

communicate that to allow them to let them know that this is

Melinda Lee:

not you? There's so many times we can say you didn't do this

Melinda Lee:

right? And so then that means I'm the problem. How do you

Melinda Lee:

communicate and make it clear that there's a problem outside?

Melinda Lee:

Not you? You're not You're not the problem?

Ashley Ikeda:

Again, coming from a place of curiosity, right? And

Ashley Ikeda:

you have every right to express your observations using those if

Ashley Ikeda:

statements. Yeah, right. Like in, let's go back to the team

Ashley Ikeda:

who wasn't studying. And you could say, oh, you know, I

Ashley Ikeda:

noticed that last Wednesday, that kind of, after you got home

Ashley Ikeda:

from school, you just use you seemed really tired. And I

Ashley Ikeda:

noticed that that you you didn't study. Or maybe you didn't have

Ashley Ikeda:

enough time to study. So just coming at it from a place of

Ashley Ikeda:

curiosity, and most people know what they need. But you know,

Ashley Ikeda:

it's not about how smart you are, it's just about having

Ashley Ikeda:

effective strategies to be successful. Naming that, right.

Ashley Ikeda:

Like, again, same, you know, again, like I, it has nothing to

Ashley Ikeda:

do with you as a person, but there is this problem, right?

Ashley Ikeda:

And if the problem is not studying, and I think helping

Ashley Ikeda:

one understand the reasons for why they're not studying, right,

Ashley Ikeda:

because I think avoidance, it's another form of dealing it's

Ashley Ikeda:

it's a form of anxiety, right people avoid, because there is

Ashley Ikeda:

something threatening or something scary. Yeah, that is

Ashley Ikeda:

like a test. Yeah,

Melinda Lee:

you're bringing patients a lot of time with

Melinda Lee:

presentations. For exactly the same thing with a child and

Melinda Lee:

maybe they're just threatened. That's so true. Yeah, yeah,

Ashley Ikeda:

that was a way to cope. I'm going to avoid or I'm

Ashley Ikeda:

going to procrastinate, right. And so normalising that

Melinda Lee:

yeah, I love that. I love that. Wow, that is so

Melinda Lee:

good. That was so good. That was really how For

Ashley Ikeda:

think Well, I mean, this is one of the most

Ashley Ikeda:

common issues. Right. But yeah, I think there's that lack of

Ashley Ikeda:

understanding that I think a lot of what we do does come from

Ashley Ikeda:

that anxiety or fear, which I think is so ingrained in us.

Ashley Ikeda:

Right. And I think that's really I think, it starts in the ways

Ashley Ikeda:

that we communicate with each other. Right? Because, you know,

Ashley Ikeda:

I think the words that we say to each other are impactful, but

Ashley Ikeda:

also the words that we say to ourselves. Yeah. Right. And I

Ashley Ikeda:

think we are all so harsh and critical of ourselves. And I

Ashley Ikeda:

think we automatically just behave out of fear. Mm hmm.

Ashley Ikeda:

Because we're not growing or learning from in that place.

Ashley Ikeda:

Yeah.

Melinda Lee:

Right. Because we're afraid that we're not good

Melinda Lee:

enough. Now, we're afraid that other people are experiencing,

Melinda Lee:

they're not good enough. And so we start to speak from fear.

Melinda Lee:

Love that. And so what is one piece of advice or a couple of

Melinda Lee:

statements that you want to leave? Parents?

Ashley Ikeda:

One, one thing that I learned from one of my

Ashley Ikeda:

professors in grad school is when he was teaching us active

Ashley Ikeda:

listening, he said, it's really simple. You just basically have

Ashley Ikeda:

to repeat the last that last sentence that the person said,

Ashley Ikeda:

yeah, right. Right. Right. But the way that you say it could

Ashley Ikeda:

create an opportunity for more conversation, right. So maybe we

Ashley Ikeda:

could try practising this maybe. Melinda, do you mind just saying

Ashley Ikeda:

anything that comes to mind?

Melinda Lee:

I am passionate about leadership. Hmm.

Ashley Ikeda:

You're passionate about leadership?

Melinda Lee:

yeah, It's just that I think we need really

Melinda Lee:

great leaders, and we need to be able to lift each up as leaders

Ashley Ikeda:

So we need great leaders, right. And we need

Ashley Ikeda:

great leaders to lift each other up. So in the first, the first

Ashley Ikeda:

sense, right, I just kind of reflected back what you said,

Ashley Ikeda:

but in the form of a question.

Melinda Lee:

Yeah. Right. And so it's, it's more about, like, how

Melinda Lee:

we say it. More about, yeah, the connections, you gave me a

Melinda Lee:

connection, you connected with me and how you said it, not just

Melinda Lee:

like your professor said, which he had good intent, but the

Melinda Lee:

impact was missing. All right, yeah. Good intent in terms of,

Melinda Lee:

yes, the words are right, you did what he said. But then the

Melinda Lee:

impact is, you want to, we want to include the connection part.

Melinda Lee:

And don't forget that as parents, as managers, as leaders

Melinda Lee:

with authority over others, we want you know, and you have good

Melinda Lee:

intentions. Just be aware that just because you have good

Melinda Lee:

intentions doesn't mean that you're making the impact. And so

Melinda Lee:

just being more aware and intentional with your own

Melinda Lee:

biases, and be able to say things that so that the other

Melinda Lee:

person receives it.

Ashley Ikeda:

Right. And that requires your full presence.

Ashley Ikeda:

Yeah. Yeah. And attention. I agree. Yeah. With them, going

Ashley Ikeda:

into a hole with them. Yeah. And the other thing that I wanted to

Ashley Ikeda:

mention with that, as I was starting as a therapist, I had

Ashley Ikeda:

kind of like a young client, tell me something quite

Ashley Ikeda:

traumatic. And, you know, I was just beginning of the therapist.

Ashley Ikeda:

So I didn't know what to say I was just I was, I was like, I

Ashley Ikeda:

didn't have I didn't know what to say. And I said nothing. And

Ashley Ikeda:

then I actually started to cry. And we were just crying

Ashley Ikeda:

together. And in my supervision, I was telling my supervisor, I

Ashley Ikeda:

was like, Oh, my gosh, I failed as a therapist, like I didn't

Ashley Ikeda:

have anything to say we were just crying. And all she said

Ashley Ikeda:

was she just said you did what you need. You did what needed to

Ashley Ikeda:

happen. Like, okay, and then a year later, I get a note from

Ashley Ikeda:

this client. And she writes, she writes thank you for not knowing

Ashley Ikeda:

what to say. So sometimes that can be the point perfect

Ashley Ikeda:

response.

Melinda Lee:

Yeah, for sure. For sure. That's beautiful.

Ashley Ikeda:

Yeah. So I think as long as it's coming from a

Ashley Ikeda:

place of presence and authenticity, you don't have to

Ashley Ikeda:

worry about coming up with the perfect response. Because again,

Ashley Ikeda:

like that connection piece, I think that connection is so

Ashley Ikeda:

important. And that's what's most meaningful, that we all

Ashley Ikeda:

have a need to feel heard, and to feel understood. That really

Ashley Ikeda:

makes a big difference.

Melinda Lee:

And that is effective communication. Thank

Melinda Lee:

you, Ashley. That was amazing. Thank you so much for sharing

Melinda Lee:

your expertise and knowledge. I trust that people out there

Melinda Lee:

leaders out there are hearing this and receiving this and

Melinda Lee:

using it to become better leaders.

Ashley Ikeda:

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Melinda. This is

Ashley Ikeda:

actually a great experience. This is my first podcast. So I

Ashley Ikeda:

honoured that you had been on here and it was lovely speaking

Ashley Ikeda:

with you.

Melinda Lee:

Yes, yes, it was super fun and so impactful.

Melinda Lee:

Thank you, Ashley. Take care. Bye bye all

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