On this episode we talk with Ryan Wall about how to encourage our kids to be creative. Ryan is an animator, and has animated many things you may know. Ryan tells us how he encourages his daughter to be creative.

Tonight on the Dudes and Dads podcast, we talk with our friend, Ryan, Ryan Wall, about

fostering creativity within our kids.

You're listening to the Dudes and Dads podcast, a show dedicated to helping men be their dudes

and dads by building community through meaningful conversation and storytelling.

And now, here are your hosts, Joel Damana and Andy Lager.

Hello, Joel.

Ryan Wall.

How are you, Joel?

Yeah, I'm great.

I'm minus my hopefully temporary speech impediment.

Yeah, everybody, good to have you back with us on the Dudes and Dads podcast.

We're excited for another episode.

As we embark on season six, we're four episodes in.

And so far, the content has been above average, Andrew.

I don't know why that Facebook is telling me that our content is blocked in Russia.

You know what?

Good, good.

No one can watch the podcast in Russia.

So there is that.

Let's just take a moment for all of our Russian listeners out there.

We're sorry.

We're sorry.

We we apologize, especially if you were using this podcast to get through whatever, whatever

situation you have over there currently.

I don't even know what I don't know what season it is in Russia.

I don't know the hemisphere thing confuses me.

I don't know, but apparently you can't watch our show, but you can't watch.

So if you were like hunkered down in the in the dead cold of winter in Russia and our

show was the only thing getting you by.

I don't know who you have to blame.

Probably some some cyber terrorists.

I don't know.

But we're sorry.

Okay.

Enough.

Enough about Russia.

Am I right?

Right.

Andy, please fill me in.

What's what's been going on in your life?

Anything fun?

So we got through a watch that Notre Dame girls play tonight.

Nice.

And that was fun.

They won.

Yeah.

I was a little bit worried for a minute or two, but after half time they came back

in.

It was a close one.

Yeah, I mean it was closer, but no, I have a little bit of a controversial take.

And in a moment, I'll I'll ask our guest in on his thoughts on this because girls basketball,

they've gone to quarters.

They play in quarters.

Yes, correct.

Not two 20 minute halves, whatever that's about.

So you think that they should be everyone else has gone to quarters.

NBA plays in quarters, but NCAA men's basketball still in half still in half.

What is the deal?

What is the deal?

I just get let's get with it.

Let's you know the NCAA is crumbling from the inside out anyway.

I say why?

That was the time to make changes if we can.

So basketball game that sounds like a super good time.

We attended a baseball scrimmage today because it's 70 degrees outside of the beginning of

March, not for Aaron's team, but for the the play of the age division below him, but they

invited people out and said, Hey, you want to come see a scrimmage?

And so we're like, you know what?

I can't get baseball soon enough.

I was actually thinking about grilling today, but didn't have anything to grill by the time

we got back.

You know, it's so funny you say that because just I as birthday was officially today.

Oh, today is the official day March 3rd.

That were this is the day we're recording for those of you.

I left the cat out of the bag in case you thought we were recording another day, you

find out when we're actually recording here on March 3rd.

But yeah, he's the big one three officially now.

And what did he say?

He goes, Hey, for my birthday, could we, could we do some grilling?

And I said, Hey, I got some lovely marinated chicken ready to rock and roll for you.

So we grew it was nice.

It was nice and I didn't, I didn't have to wear a coat while it was out there.

So yeah, thank you El Nino or whatever, whatever is going on that's 70 degrees out here in

North Central Indiana.

The beginning of March.

Excellent.

Okay.

Andy, do we have anybody that we would like to thank?

We do.

We would like to thank our Patreon supporters.

You keep our lights on while we do have a corporate sponsor.

We love you guys who are actually sponsoring this show.

That's right.

For us personally.

We want to thank everybody who is a sponsor.

If you're not a Patreon supporter, you get shows early.

You get that warm fuzzy feeling of knowing that you help support us.

100%.

And so join us at dudesanddadspodcast.com/patreon.

Gosh guys, you know, here's, here's the, the quick of it.

You really are what keep Andy and I going week to week, you know, sometimes we come

into the studio thinking, does anybody even care?

But then we look at the, the list of our Patreon supporters and we say, well, at least

three people do.

So join that, join that club, join the crew, get on board for as little as how much a month

Andy?

Little as $2.

As $2 a month.

You could support us.

And you know, it's better than $2 a month.

Andy.

$100.

$100 a month or anywhere in between.

So thank you all for supporting us and consider supporting us today.

Jump on the, jump on the bandwagon.

The water's fine.

Okay.

Well, there we have it.

Andy, I want to introduce our guest tonight.

I'm excited about this.

This guy's been in, we'll call him in the queue for a while.

He has previously, and I understand, I was a little salty about it, but he's previously

prioritized family obligations overcoming this studio.

But finally, I found him on a Sunday evening when literally there was nothing more interesting

to be done.

And that's really the key when you're inviting guests on, you say, Hey, what is the most boring

day in your schedule?

When, when, when are there no other things that could possibly be interesting?

That's when we have them come on the show.

So, so now we, now we know, now we know why people really show up.

But my friend Ryan wall, Ryan, welcome to the dudes and dads podcast.

Thanks for coming on.

No problem.

Well, that's my bedtime.

Yep.

I figured as much you gotta, you gotta be there, be there at the shop early.

So if, you know, I don't know, not really, not really.

No, I've seen how you just lulli gag around.

If you want this, well, just truth out of the bag, this guy will take a little bit more

than an hour lunch.

I'm just, I'm just, I'll say, I'll let you know.

It's working.

It's enough information.

Yep.

Okay.

Sorry.

No, he was, we were on official business to be clear, but so Andy, I've had a lot of opportunities

in my life to, how shall I say, intersect with some gifted people, people of that are

have all kinds of talents and abilities.

I first met Ryan way, way back when as a sophomore in high school, Ryan was working at a design

firm that I managed to get myself a job at and actually keep a job at for over eight years,

which what high school student, do you know has an eight year job?

Has an agent.

Please.

No, I stuck with this place where they stuck with eight years of high school.

Yeah.

Hey, you know, they liked me so much.

They asked me back, but Ryan and I worked together for a little while and then I'm trying to

remember then, is that when you moved?

Is that when you moved to Toronto?

Is that when you left initially?

Okay.

2001.

Yeah.

Ryan is an artist.

He's a dude.

He's a dad.

He fits.

He fits the show.

All the criteria, all the criteria, but we just, I thought, I was like, man, I want to

talk about the subject of fostering creativity in our kids, but then also it also inevitably

is a conversation about like how we just, how someone discovers their own creativity and

builds that and gains that and then like what lessons you kind of learn along the way.

So first of all, Ryan, we always like to start with what we call the dad stats.

So this is where you get to tell us about your family, about yourself, all the things

that you feel safe to have out on the internet.

This is, this is your chance.

So your wife, your kid, what you do, what you have done, all the stuff.

And long as you got.

Yeah.

Okay.

I've been married for quite a while now.

That's the safety answer.

Yeah.

Safe answer.

Yeah.

As long as I can remember.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's good.

My daughter, Megan, she's a freshman in high school.

Yeah.

I lived in Toronto for 15 years and then moved back here.

Been about six, six and a half years now that we've been back.

So when you moved out to Toronto, what was the, what was the, cause let's just be clear.

I mean, I'm suspicious of anybody that leaves this great country to move to Canada.

So I just, I'm curious.

It was, it was for school.

Okay.

I was intended to be animation as a career, kind of waited a little too long to do it.

I'm trying to do the math.

I'm like, how old, how old were you when you, when you ended up there?

Cause I was young and so everybody seems older, but I don't, I don't know.

Yeah.

I mean, I originally, I wanted to do animation, like even as a career, like right out of college,

but the colleges I'd went to, didn't offer it.

So I did fine art, graphic design, stuff like that.

And then I started pursuing schools that were pretty much animation schools.

And then that's where I ended up in Toronto.

Yeah.

And I ended up working up there and met my wife up there.

So hey, there's a good, yeah, good move then.

So that's my excuse.

Yeah.

Every time I'd come down across the border and I'd show my passport and he's like the

guards, you know, the U S border guards are like, what are you doing in Canada?

So my excuse is I just pointed at her.

Oh, okay.

That's good.

That's fine.

Yeah.

So I just, I wonder as a kid, you know, growing up here in, you know, small town rural, I

mean, cause you grew up in the Middlebury area, right?

This is Bristol, even worse.

We've lost two of our Bristol listeners now too.

I'm just checking people off.

All of our Canadian listeners have left and now, but growing up in this area.

And what I wonder for you is like, when did you first kind of realize, you know, because

Andy, I know you haven't seen, but like Ryan, I mean, the work he does as an animator is

really, really impressive.

And obviously there's a journey that you've been on to get there and develop skills and

all that.

But when you were young, like when did you kind of first realize like, oh, I think I'm

good at this or I have an interest in this?

I always like to draw.

I mean, I have a twin brother too.

And we always dabbled in like, are you both like gifted that way?

Sean's a good artist.

I mean, he didn't really pursue it.

So I don't think he doesn't draw.

Gotcha.

I mean, but if he, if he did draw it, it would probably be better than the average.

The average friends.

If you're like, hey, draw, you and I.

Yeah.

So I mean, like, I mean, we, we draw just as kids.

I mean, back then there's no phones, no video games, you know, it's either be outside playing

baseball or be inside drawing or watching Grizzly Adams or something like Land of the

Lost.

Yeah, yeah, the classics.

But yeah, I mean, I do art projects in school like kindergarten and like the teachers would

go, oh, this is great.

And blah, blah, blah, you know, and I was like, okay, you know, I mean, I really didn't really

think too much about it back then, but then then teachers would have, have me draw something

for like a fundraiser or something like that.

And then when you started making money for them, the first thing I remember drawing for

the school, like as I went to Jefferson Elementary and they had the spring fleeing.

Oh yeah, I remember that.

And they had me draw.

I don't know if you guys remember this character Holly hobby.

No, no.

It's like this little girl that she's got like a bonnet and like it's kind of like a

country, like almost like a little house on the prairie type character.

And they had me draw this Holly hobby and they gave it to some lady and she stitched

it on a quilt.

Oh man.

Auction or something.

This is all very on brand for this area.

How can we make this into a quilt?

Right.

Yeah, 100%.

So yeah, I've got a probably got an old quilt like somewhere in somebody's probably.

If you're listening out there, you've got a Holly hobby quilt hang up.

Right.

A lot of dust on it.

Dust on it.

I don't like to read like to reconvene with.

No, no, no, apparently not.

Okay, gotcha.

I don't know.

I don't know how it actually looks.

But yeah, I mean, just stuff like that.

I mean, I then I got into, I mean, I've always liked Disney.

My parents took us down to Disney World back.

I mean, as early as 74.

We were like two years old.

I mean, obviously I don't remember that.

But but every every so many years, two, three years, we'd go down and.

That would kind of I always like the Disney animated features like the classic stuff.

And then I think that kind of got me more interested when you're down there and then

you see the artist down there and then the Hollywood Studios.

Well, MGM Studios back then actually had the animation studio.

Okay.

Down there and you could actually go through and see the process and I mean, that that's

where I wanted to work when I got out of school.

Unfortunately, taking my time to do it, they closed the studio down by then.

Wow.

So that yeah, like yeah, they closed down the studio in Paris, Orlando and and they actually

had one in Canada as well.

And then they just situated it in Burbank.

So that was my only option there.

But I mean, that was the goal.

But I never I never made it down to sunny California.

Yeah.

But that's okay.

Yeah.

I mean, so at what point like when was the serious turn for you when you when you did

say like, OK, I'm going to be I want to pursue art as as something significant.

Probably high school.

Yeah.

I mean, I I wanted to be a pilot like at one point, like maybe be a fighter pilot in the

military, but I'm colorblind.

So they didn't want to shoot down our own planes.

So I just want to be clear.

So I don't know if I ever knew this about you actually.

So as an artist, designer, all that you are your color, you're straight up colorblind.

I think that's what kind of drew me into animation also is because an animator at the time when

I before computers and everything.

I mean, you're just drawn with a pencil and then there the whole there's a whole other

department that that colors the drawings.

And yeah, I didn't have to worry about color at all.

So I mean, nice.

That was perfect.

Yeah, right.

Right.

Give me a pencil and yes, easy, easy, peasy.

So yeah, like high school is probably when I really started focusing on getting into

that career like animation side of art.

I wasn't a wasn't big on painting, obviously, because of the colors and like fine art stuff

was was was nice. But just just working in the entertainment industry, you know, doing

like films or television like that just kind of piqued my interest.

And yeah, I just started looking into stuff like that.

I mean, what's the like, what's the avenue?

And maybe this I'm sure this is changed.

But what's the avenue now for your kid in high school?

You're you're probably you know, hopefully hopefully you had your your teachers were

like cheering you on and all of this and you know, kind of encouraging you what you were

doing today.

Today what is the like what's the avenue if if you're if you're like if your kid right

now is like, oh, you got a real skill in drawing and animation or some sort of visual the visual

arts or whatever.

Where where do they go?

Yeah, where do they go?

Where do you steer them?

Well, I think nowadays, I mean, I'm not quite sure about the schools around here.

But there's a lot of kids can actually take some animation in high school.

Yeah.

Whereas back in my day, sound sound really old, but kind of am.

But but yeah, like I think in high schools, I think offer more kids opportunities to to

try different things like a little bit, especially because of the computer, the computer is huge

now and right.

And I know some kids locally that have gotten into animation like and they're going to

school for animation now.

And I think it's I think it's a little bit freer as far as kids that want to pursue it.

It's a little easier to find places to go.

And like back at the back then it was, you know, like I'd look in school and Cal arts

or Columbus School of Art and Design, Sheridan up in Canada.

Those are like the big some of the big schools in Disney would send send out lists of of

schools that they prefer or they pick from usually that has their curriculum kind of

their guidelines.

Nowadays I mean, even there's online classes, animation mentor, a lot of these are taught

by industry professionals.

So you could just take classes, right, right in your own house.

So with the technology piece, I'm wondering, would you say there's still value in getting

the skill of pen, pen on paper?

And is there something unique that's offered offered to you in that experience versus doing

it all digitally or on a, you know, on a computer?

Well, if you're good at good at drawing, there's all always a character design layout.

I mean, I mean, you have to create the characters by hand first, and then it's transferred into

the computer.

For me, I started out doing hand drawn animation, like commercials, lucky charms, tricks, stuff

like that in Chicago.

And then I once I got married, I went back to Canada.

And at that time it was all flash was the big software.

Oh, right.

Flash.

Yeah.

So I started out with Flash and now it's Adobe animate.

Now it's pretty much the same software, but I basically taught myself flash because if

I wanted to get jobs, I'd have to advance my skill set.

So I kind of taught myself on the fly.

My first job in Canada was on a show for National Geographic kids.

And I remember still learning stuff about the software while I was actually working

on the show.

So I mean, kids these days, I think they know the computer so well.

I feel like like a fossil.

I have to ask my daughter a lot of times how to do things like, and she'll be like, dad,

you idiot.

Yeah, I guess I am.

But yeah, like you just have to like, I mean, it's all the same creativity.

It's just a different the media changes.

And I hope it goes back to some more of the classical animation style.

I mean, I think it's been so saturated with computer animation and it all kind of starts

looking the same.

Sure.

Yeah.

So I think if they if they bring out another hand drawn feature, I mean, it'll probably

be wow.

Yeah, it's really stand out.

So I mean, there's always that hope.

I mean, I'm always available for that if it ever happens for the record.

But yeah, I mean, for me, I basically kind of found my niche in television.

So I'd work I worked on some shows for PBS, Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network, Disney, just

the whole range.

Name the name of the shows because I think some people will be interested in which in

what you what you did.

We're done a bunch of the total drama island shows.

There's so many seasons of that.

Like I can't can't remember how many and they're still actually going on to this day.

Like they've rebooted it and it seemed like a really popular show for Cartoon Network.

And I think that's why they kept like a survivor type show for kids.

And then Arthur for PBS, Cat in the Hat knows a lot about that.

Creative Galaxy for Amazon, Nature Cat for PBS kids.

Nature and cats.

That's that's a freaking killer.

Oh, you like that?

I love I love.

That was my least favorite show.

That's why why your least why your least favorite?

Well, they used Harmony Animation software.

And that was another one I didn't know.

So I was learning on the fly.

And that one is really it was almost I don't know if you guys know or to Maya the software.

Like it's more 3D animation.

Well, it was kind of the same way that it's set up like hierarchies and all this.

It just it just seemed like really technical to me and it wasn't as organic.

Sure.

It wasn't as it wasn't as fun to animate on with that software.

It felt less artsy for you.

That's really what you what I'm hearing you say.

You know, yeah.

So yeah, I did that one and then yeah, Creative Galaxy for Amazon.

That's the Blues Clues people.

And that was a nice show.

It was educational show.

Did Welcome to the Wayne.

It was on Nickelodeon, I think for just a season and then Unikitty for Cartoon Network

and and Tom and Jerry, the Tom and Jerry show for Warner Brothers.

And that was that was on Cartoon Network also.

So so are these are you working for sort of separate?

Like I don't know how it's like separate studios that are contracted to do the animation

for these.

Yeah.

So a lot of the a lot of the studios in Canada are service studios.

So like us, let's say Warner Brothers will farm out work to different studios to like

so that could be two or three studios working on one series.

Well, yeah.

The good thing about Canada was the the dollar was was less.

So so it wouldn't cost the studio as much kind of like when they shipped a lot of it

overseas now because of that because of the cost.

So yeah, like so I'd be working on this.

This is kind of how I got back to the states.

It was when I was on Tom and Jerry.

I was working for a studio in Toronto on Tom and Jerry.

And then I was like, you know what, I'm going to contact the studio in the states and see

if I can just work for them.

So being from the states, a US citizen, they said, oh, yeah, sure.

So I just I just started working for them.

And then so I was making US money and that's what kind of like led us back to Indiana.

My wife, she's also an artist.

She's an illustrator, graphic designer.

She always wanted to open up her own store like a stationary shop.

She designs her own greeting cards and stationary.

And I said, you know, the perfect place to open one up if you want to start one is like

small town like, you know, US, you know, Indiana, Goshen maybe.

So so we move back down here.

And I was comfortable with that because I could I could still work for studios from home

remotely.

Sure.

Like out of from California.

So we moved back here.

And then the problem with then the problem I found out was, well, I'm a.

Contracted animator.

So since I'm not in studio, I have to be responsible for my own health insurance and stuff.

Yeah.

So then I got the that health care dot gov.

And I was like, man, this isn't a very good deal.

You know, one of the most depressing days.

Yeah.

So I was like, man, I need to get another job, you know, has benefits.

So that led me into the RV industry, obviously around being around here.

So that's my full time job now.

I still do art, contracted artwork for companies like like Disney.

I'm contracted with them.

And then I have there's some other studios that I do contracted character art for.

Yeah.

And then I'll then I'll do animation occasionally too.

It's been a while.

I haven't reached out to any of them for a while, but I'm sure there's.

Jobs available if I want them.

It's just been I've been so busy lately that I've just kind of.

I'll take things if if I want them and then pass on stuff.

So is this you like, you know, you're working your you're working your nine to five and then

you're slouched over in the basement somewhere doing your additional animation work at night.

Is that how that goes?

That happened a few times, which I think that's what kind of led me away from animation is

a full time thing.

Like.

Is I was trying to do a full time animation on top of my full time job.

Yikes.

And the problem is like the studios are out of California.

So I'm going, well, I'll have that delayed hours.

Like, you know, so like I can get home at four.

It's only like one o'clock there.

I can still talk to the directors and the producers and get what I need to get from

them and then then get to work.

But then after a while I'm going, and I'm tired.

Right, right.

So I think the job I enjoyed the most in animations that I moved back here was a revisionist position,

which is basically they'll send the animation overseas, let's say to the Philippines or

probably, I think it was the Philippines on Tom and Jerry.

And then they do the, the initial character animation there and then they'd send it back

to the States.

The animation director would make notes on it and give it to somebody like me.

And then I'd basically change it or clean it up and make it look like how it's supposed

to look or what they want to see for the final post.

And then I'd send it back to him and that, that was a lot less stress where I'm not having

to deal with like 20 seconds of animation a week and wondering when I'd have the time

to do it.

So stuff like that I still enjoy, but I just, I just prefer doing like just drawings now.

And that's, it's not as a repetition based, I guess, like animation.

And then drawing like Mickey Mouse and stuff like that's kind of fun.

Yeah.

So we talked, touched a little bit about it earlier about kids and you'd mentioned the

ability for them to get involved with their school, but what are some other ways that we

as parents can kind of encourage that?

If we see, you know, I know for me, my second son is very art driven.

What are some of the things that I can do to encourage him to keep doing that?

And maybe that as a career, maybe not, but continue to develop that creativity as he

goes along.

Yeah.

Like, I mean, there's, there's classes you can get involved in like outside of schools.

I know there's, I know Goshen used to have some art, some art workshops.

There's some in Elkhart too.

I did some of those as a kid.

Like my parents were really supportive of me wanting to be an artist.

And I'm the same with my daughter.

My daughter does performing arts.

Like she's really into theater, musical theater.

She does show choir in high school.

I just, if she wants to do something related to that or go to see a show somewhere like

a Broadway show, I kind of give her, you know, push her into like, you know, like, yeah,

let's go see that and just encourage her to like do do as much as she can, but not force

her to do stuff.

Like, I know I was, I wanted my daughter to play sports, you know, like any dad.

I got her got her softball bat and got some tennis balls, got her in the backyard.

She was hitting the tennis balls.

And she's hitting those really good, you know, let's go to the batting cage.

So got her to the batting cage, got the real softballs.

Like the first one she hit solid, she's like, oh, my hands hurt.

And I was like, no softball for us.

But she's, but she's, she's more artistic, not, not so much drawing wise.

I mean, she, she used to draw a lot as a kid, but she, she picked up on dance.

She's really good dancer.

And then the whole show choir singing.

She's, she's pretty advanced as far as her singing voice for age.

She's been taking voice lessons for quite a few years now.

And that's something that we support.

Like, you know, if she wants to take lessons in something like acting or singing or even

dancing, I mean, we're all 100%.

And that's the same with art too.

I mean, as a parent, you just got to support what your kid wants to do, but don't, you

know, push them into, see what they, what they're interested in, just kind of let them,

yeah, flourish, you know, like.

And I think too, that that maybe even seasons too, you know, where there may be a season

where your kid is really, is really into the arts and the creativity.

But then they may move on to doing something with sports.

And so yeah, I think that like, especially allowing them to explore.

Yeah, I mean, my daughter played soccer for a little bit.

And I don't think she was a big fan of soccer, but I remember the last year she played, she

goes, you know, dad, I don't know if I want to keep playing soccer, but we had already

started the season.

I was like, you need, but you need to finish the season.

You know, I don't, I don't want you to quit, you know, just finish it out.

And then if you don't want to play it next year, you don't have to play it, you know.

And yeah, I mean, especially kids, younger kids, I mean, they're still trying to work

things out and figure, figure out what they want to do or what they're interested in.

So I just think as far as creativity goes, if they're interested in something as a parent,

like all you can do is just support them and give them all the, you know, the tools or the

assets that they need to like try it out.

Has the thought ever crossed your mind?

Because because this is, I think, particularly when we're talking about the arts, performing

arts, visual arts, whatever the case is.

So many parents are like, yeah, but what are you going to do for a job?

Like, what are you going to do?

Like even as amazing as Megan might be, I'm wondering if it's in the back of your guys'

mind.

Like, man, if there's a professional show choir out there for you to give your life

to great, however.

Oh, she wants to do Broadway.

Yeah, yeah.

But we'd aim high, Megan, by the way.

We'd, we'd, we'd not, we'd have to settle for the low cookies on the shelf.

No, no, we're going all the way.

Yeah.

Well, she wants to do like, she wants to major in musical theater at this point.

I mean, she's a freshman.

Sure.

She could change, but, but I've always told her, you know, if you're going to major in

something, maybe it would probably be good to minor in something else.

You know, always have a backup plan.

I mean, even as, as me as an artist, like an animator, like I was always trying to think

of something like if this, if something like the floor drops on the industry, you know,

and it does happen.

I mean, I know if AI takes over the whole thing, that's a big, that's a big problem right

now in the industry.

I mean, all of art right now.

Yeah.

Um, like a lot of the studios in the States are shipping stuff overseas too.

So there's a lot of really good animators in California or in the U S that don't have,

that don't have any work anymore either.

So you always have to have a backup plan, but sometimes I, as long as she's, she's focused

on wanting to do something.

I mean, I'm going to give her all the opportunities I can for her to achieve what she wants to

do and her mom's the same way.

I mean, we're totally supportive.

I mean, I'm her, I'm Megan chauffeur, I drive her.

I don't know how many miles a week to rehearsals.

This back and forth, picking her up from school doing, and then the show choir.

That's okay.

That's hardcore.

This is the part where if we have to ever edit anything out of the show, this is the

part of the wallet it out.

And, and I'm just going to, I'm just going to, I'm just going to say what I think about

show choir.

So for any of you that are big show choir fans and you are easily offended about criticism

towards your career.

Yeah.

Um, 30 seconds later, you can, you can come back.

Um, Ryan, uh, show choir is the bane of my existence.

And I don't even have any kids in a show choir.

Or was I ever personally in show?

So what affected, what, what made this, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Here's the, here's the deal.

Uh, it takes more time and more energy and more resources than any sport or any other

extracurricular that like I feel like show choir, and I'll just say this is off the rails

in terms of boundaries for kids, particularly because a lot of their shows are far away.

They, they go into the early morning.

They're in, they're Saturdays.

They're not just fries.

They're Saturdays.

They're just Saturday.

I'm dropping her off at five in the morning.

Perfect.

Right.

When will she get done?

Uh, she'll probably roll back into the high school around three in the morning on Sunday

morning.

Case and case and point.

So this is my other thing from a faith, just I'm just saying also from a faith perspective,

do you think you're, if Megan, do you think Megan is getting up on Sunday morning, like

man, can't wait to get to church?

No.

No, absolutely not.

That's not happening.

And I get, and I get why.

Uh, so this is my, this is my one.

Respiratory and yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Pastor, um, bedside Baptist.

Yeah.

Uh, that's, that's just my, that's my critique on the whole thing.

I, I, I think that's one area within the performing arts at the high school level that like,

and I'm, man, I'm thrilled for Megan that she's doing it.

I'm glad that she loves it.

It develops a lot of discipline and a lot of really, really great things, but that would

be on a positive.

No, thank you.

The show.

On the positive note, the show choir season is very short.

So that happens.

Those, those Saturdays are probably only like four or five times for the whole year.

Okay.

I mean, practices start probably in, I want to say November though, but that's, they

have a class at the school for it too.

And then they practice at least two to three times after school, right after school.

So yeah, I'm just saying, just, just put it, I'm just putting it out there, but it's amazing.

You should go to a show choir.

Listen, I've, oh, we got on this.

See, I told you, it's really going to draw me any, any, you know, to go and meet your

demons.

Go to a competition.

Okay.

All right.

So Ryan, I will.

Just as a way of being supportive and not coming off like a complete jerk.

You let me know, I will attend.

You have a community's performance like coming up in like probably three weeks.

Perfect.

And it's on a Thursday night.

It's not even late.

Okay.

Best thing I think could be said for travel ball though.

Sure.

It could be your, you are, you are correct.

It could be, except for the fact that we, that's a different situation because you're

operating outside.

I didn't really mean to get sidetracked on this because, because it's academic.

That's what I'm saying.

It's, it's connected like, they have a grade attached to them, like them coming home early,

like three a.m. on a Sunday morning.

They're doing that in order to achieve a certain, and I guess you could say she could choose

not to be in show quiet.

That's her choice.

That's an elective.

We could go down the rabbit hole.

It's fine.

I get it.

Show quiet.

It's great.

I think it's amazing.

What those kids do is absolutely amazing.

I'm really, really impressed by it.

I just, we're talking 100% thank you.

We should ask the old, you know, maybe that's actually, maybe that's really what the core

of it is that I, I, I, you're just bitter.

I am sour grapes.

That's fair enough.

I did, I did, I did try out for the, what was it, was the Northern Lights back in the

still, is it still the Northern Lights?

Cali.

There's Northern Lights and Star Lights.

One sounds a little more inappropriate than the other.

Star Lights is all girls.

Okay.

Gotcha.

And then the Northern Lights is the mix.

Gotcha.

So yeah, you would probably only qualify for the Northern Lights.

Thank you.

Maybe that's why he's so bitter.

That's right.

Actually, I tried.

I was just a little bit bitter.

She's been,

you've had to have some sort of difficult conversation

about the choice,

the direction that she was heading

or choices that she was making within

that realm of performing arts.

Not yet so much.

I'm sure there's going to be some before long

because she's going to have to make decisions

on what she has time to do

because obviously you can only do so much.

You can only do so much to acquire

and then whatever.

Well, she, yeah, she was,

she does a lot of theater outside of school.

Sure.

She's also doing theater in school.

So last, last fall,

we kind of ran into some schedule conflicts

as she was in Wizard of Oz.

She was Dorothy.

She played Dorothy and Elkhart at the learner.

And then she was also doing some stuff at the school.

Well, the con the schedules were kind of conflicting.

So she had to basically pick one or the other.

And which was good because that,

that kind of gave us the realization that, you know,

during the school year,

maybe you shouldn't do theater outside.

Maybe you need to focus on either theater on the outside

or theater on in school.

And then maybe let's say if you do theater school theater

and do the outside theater in the summers,

pick a show in the summer you want to do.

That was the first time that ever kind of happened to us.

Yeah.

And I mean, that'll probably happen again,

like with other things,

because as she gets older,

she's going to be wanting to do more things with her friends

or work.

But she's always going to have to make time for this stuff.

You know, she wants to pursue.

I mean, I think she's really good with school.

She's she's she gets all A's in school as these as performing arts

kids do, by the way, like this is a this is a thing we talk about

a lot in music with my with my kids.

They are better students because they have to develop

all these other skills.

Like being in the performing arts, the thing that you because

you're talking about right now, schedule, time management,

things like things like that.

You know that you have some amount of time to get this school

work done or make these priorities like that.

Shaping that skill early, obviously way better than doing it

later like I did when I was like, you know, like, oh, I kind of

like I kind of learned when I was like 35.

Right.

When my boss said I actually have to be working on time.

Real bummer when he forced me to say that you want this job.

No, but my daughter,

Jasmine and I don't have to tell her to do homework or anything.

You know, and I was thinking to myself, where did she get this

from?

It wasn't from me.

I was like, that was like that was the exact opposite.

I was in school.

I wasn't even in the show choir.

Didn't any of that stuff?

Yeah.

I was like a procrastinator.

I think that's what they call it.

I think so.

I think Megan, Megan is a procrastinator when it comes

to certain things, but.

She always ends up getting it always gets done like and then

even her theater stuff.

And this is this is maybe the creativity side of her personality

is I we never see her practice for theater.

She goes to she goes to practice rehearsals and then she comes

home and like she doesn't.

I mean, she must rehearse on her own time and everything.

And then we go to the shows and then she like knocks out of

the show.

I'm like, holy cow.

Yeah.

It's like so.

Also another thing like we're talking about as parents, you

know, you want to foster your kids creativity or anything they

they do like sports, theater, music.

Me personally, I almost feel that.

You have a talent for a reason, you know, like God given talent

so to speak and you almost need to try to utilize it even in

some capacity.

I mean, if you don't want, let's say somebody's really good at

something, but they don't, you know, I don't want to do that as

a career.

I was like, I almost feel like.

There's a reason why you have that skill, you know, so.

Try to use it for something, you know, at least try for, you

know, to see how that you have a stewardship responsibility of

some sort.

Yeah.

So I'll never not.

Draw or do our, you know, I mean, I'll draw stuff for people

just.

Right.

If they ask me to, you know, that's good.

Because I got, I got to think that Ryan's going to draw for

a draw for us.

I already got a project for him.

So that's good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's been great.

It's really great for that, that drink there, liquid.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's right.

No, hand design, but you, but you feel like.

Yeah, that's been given to them for for a reason, any of us

before a reason.

And I think sometimes it's a, but it's a, it's a mature perspective

and more of an adult perspective to understand that our kids often

don't think that way.

Right.

You know, like we, and we, I think it's a really interesting

thing to say to your child.

Hey, I think that God gave you this for a reason.

And I think it's the responsible and faithful thing to do is to

is to pursue this to some level that you gain, that you gain clarity

or appreciation for it.

Right.

Whatever, whatever that, whatever that is.

And me, when I did animation, the people go, Oh, do you, you

watch animation on TV?

Oh, this is my favorite show.

And I'm like, not really.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't really watch the stuff.

I mean, I'll watch it when my daughter would watch it.

Um, but I'd have so many people.

I actually had a kid write me back in the day and say how, how

great he loved the show that I worked on and he wanted to be an

animator when he grows up and all this stuff.

And I was like, yeah, that's kind of cool.

Yeah.

And I think I got more satisfaction out of knowing that people

enjoy the stuff that I do.

Right.

Not necessarily me doing the work, but the end product.

Sure.

When, when, oh, my kid loves that show and, oh, we love Arthur.

We will watch that show forever and this and that.

And I'm like, you know, that's, that's worth more than anything

to me.

And I mean, I think that's being, being an entertainment

industry on some, you know, spectrum, I guess.

I mean, I'm not like an actor that's on TV or anything.

I mean, most people want to know that I worked on any of this

stuff unless they stuck around and watched the end credits zip

by a second.

But just, just knowing that people enjoy the stuff you do,

like, I mean, that's, that's the most rewarding thing about

being in the creative arts, right?

Like theater, music, whatever, you know, like, I think, I think

that's what my daughter enjoys too is people saying how much

they enjoyed watching her on stage.

And, and I think that's, that kind of pushes her and drives her

to do that stuff too.

And I think anything a parent can do to you about, you know,

positive reinforcement, you know, that helps out driving them

forward as well.

So.

And also to remember that our kids and their adolescents,

they don't always know how to say thanks for the encouragement.

Well, you know, another thing, I was just thinking that the other

night about all the trips you make with your taking your kids

back and forth.

I mean, I just feel like a chauffeur is like, oh, we'll be out

in 15 minutes.

And then an hour later they pop, they just come moseying out

and I'm like, oh, you're right here.

I feel like I'm like, I need a hat, you know, like a chauffeur.

But they'll get it eventually.

If not, like five years from now, it's when they become parents

and they're doing the same thing to their kids.

I'll be like, wow, my parents did this to me and I didn't even

realize how much they did.

Yeah.

But I, Megan's pretty appreciative of she'll she'll thank us

for stuff.

And I mean, not all the time, you know, some, some times, but I,

I just think we as parents, that's our responsibility anyway,

you know, to, to, to have our kids have the best life they can.

And the most opportunities to do or pursue whatever they want to

do and become successful.

And when they become adults, you know, that's all we can do for them.

And hopefully they make the right choices.

And of all the, of all the things that Megan has done or is doing,

what would you say, what, what are you most proud of her for?

When she cleans her room without us.

Um, I don't know.

I mean, she amazes us like all the time, just with the things she does.

Like when she sings, like, it's like, why, where'd she get that?

She didn't get it from me, you know, it's, then you know, there's,

it's a gift and people would come up and go, yeah, Megan just,

she's just so good for age and she's, she's actually an eight age.

Why she should be only in eighth grade.

Like in Canada, they start to start out a year early.

Okay.

So when we move back here, we're like, should she go back into second or third grade?

Second grade or should she be in third grade?

So they tested her and said, no, she should be in third.

So yeah, she's, um, she's a year younger than all the kids in her grade,

you know, so, and she's keeping up with them.

That's something she's ahead of, ahead of them in some way.

So that's, that I think that's what makes me kind of proud is knowing that

she's not letting that, sure, hold her back, like knowing that she's younger.

She's, I don't think she even thinks about it anymore.

She just pushes ahead and I think she like thrives.

So, yeah.

So I mean, there's not really one thing that stands out.

I mean, everything she does is I'm, I'm proud of her for doing it and sticking with it too.

Yeah, I think the, the follow through that's required, um, especially if you're,

if there's a production involved or something like that, like the, the initial investment,

the practice, the rehearsal, you know, those, those things in folks that are

over listening, like we don't often think about, I think sometimes we,

it's easy to think about the performing arts as being this extraneous, extraneous extra.

Oh, it's like, oh, it's pleasant and it's nice, but you know,

we've got also got the real world out there to live in.

The real world demands a level of, a level of discipline and a level of fall,

a level of follow through.

And quite honestly, right now we have a, there's a portion of our workforce that,

that is, you know, and Ryan, use the sales manager know this, right?

Like there's a portion of our work and I won't even, I won't even name, but there's a portion

of the workforce that really struggles in that area.

This idea of, um, there are timelines.

There are, uh, there's a beginning, a middle and an end and a finish line that you need to cross on this,

on this thing.

Um, our performing art, performing arts kids get that, um, in terms of there are the initial rehearsals.

It starts off rough.

You have to keep on working through.

You have to do the practice, put in the time and then quite honestly, like I think about my kids,

like their concerts, they do a concert after months of practice.

And it's the payoff is so small compared to the work up to it.

Yeah.

And it can feel, it can feel that at the same time it's like that sort of work and that sort of labor is,

uh, is formative.

It's, it's, it develops something in our young people.

And I think you guys have, you guys have seen that and are understanding that with, with Megan,

that she's doing what she's doing.

So, and Megan, congratulations that you got to be, uh, just this unwilling, probably this unwilling star of this, this, this episode.

I hope you've, I hope you haven't warned her at all whatsoever.

You had an idea.

So maybe just keep this from her and then just like share it with her at some point.

I mean, guess what?

We just talked about you for 20 years from now.

Yeah.

We talked a bunch on this random, on the strength show.

So, uh, Ryan, thank you for sharing all that.

Yeah.

We, uh, that's just, it's really interesting, I think, to think about, um, you know, our, you know, some of our kids, they might,

they'll be like, you know, I've got one kid.

I'm like, yeah, he's probably going to be like, he's very mechanically minded.

He's probably going to be an engineer or, or technician of some sort or whatever.

And there's kind of like a clear path for that.

And I got, you know, another kid who's, you know, interested in this, that, you know, we all have those kinds of, that's where it's a clear,

the path for them in the future seems a little more clear.

Sometimes the performing arts, we feel like it's, oh, it's like a little bit of a, it's like a broad.

Yeah.

But I also think is, is a creative person.

Let's say theater performing doesn't work out all the time, but there's always other avenues.

You can teach dance, you can teach voice, you know, you can be involved in like a theater, like board on a board for a theater, you know, just, you can,

there's other avenues of the arts that you can stay involved in when you're not doing your particular.

I had a, I had a young lady apply for a job with the agency that I worked for,

and she was a professional ballerina and she had hit her mid twenties and was like aging out of the ballerina game or whatever.

But I looked at her resume and I, and like talking to her on the phone, she was like one of the most well, like for a 25 year old,

like the most well, like articulate, well put together person.

And it was clear that her, her fine arts and performing arts experience had all led to that too.

Like there was, there were deliverable skills, you know, on the other side of it.

I also think too, now like kids these days with all the technology they have, I was telling Megan, I was like,

if you want to be a performer, you might want to like look into other things like, you know, how you have to have an agent,

you know, to book you, sure, auditions and this and that.

But I mean, you can learn to be your own, you know, like, and that helps on the business side of it.

So then you pick up your business and your people skills, your art to be articulate like she probably was.

So yeah, being just the creative arts, you can actually pick up other things to help you out with your creative art.

And then that's what I think I'm, that's what I want to really try to push Megan a little bit, just not on that side,

but on other aspects of it, which would help her down the road to, let's say she wanted to get into business or some other careers to fall back on later on.

And then she has those skills as well, you know, we just, we just had this experience where we're down in Tucson with Aaron for the showcase that he was at.

And you know, these coaches are saying, listen, you need to be learning how to advocate for yourself, how to talk to old, to adults, coaches,

to be able to come across as a person that they want on your team.

Because they'll interview you.

They absolutely, absolutely will.

And they have, there's somebody waiting in line behind you that is ready and willing to take whatever spot or whatever opportunity that you're looking for.

And that's very much the case.

I mean, very competitive.

Same with sports and same with like the arts.

Right.

You don't want to get complacent because I tell people, I know I worked with people that were way better than I was.

But I liked working with those people because those people kind of drove you, but then they also made you better by you picked up on stuff that they do.

They can help you become better, but they also push you to be as good as them.

Right.

And I've told this to Megan too.

I'm like, it doesn't matter how good you get at something.

There's always going to be somebody better than you always.

So you always, you always need to strive past where you are.

And that goes with everything in life, you know?

I mean, if you get complacent, you tend to fall behind or you get lost in the mix.

So to speak.

So, yeah, no, that's good.

That's good.

Well, hey, we obviously can't let any guests go before now it's time for dudes and dads pop quiz.

Absolutely.

This is an, yeah, yeah, that's Joel about 10 years ago.

That's Aaron like two or three years ago.

He's probably pretty puberty.

He'd probably be super embarrassed to hear that now.

This is where get to ask a bunch of random questions to Ryan.

You can't prepare for them.

This is helps just us get to know like the deeper level of everybody.

I'm out of here.

Yeah, right.

Right.

Everyone's passed and no one has hated this yet.

So they have told to our first time for everything.

There is.

There sure is.

So do you want to?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This is when we've asked before to other guests, but I like it because it reveals something about you.

If you had to delete all but three apps from your smartphone, which ones would you keep?

Royal match.

My wife would hate.

If I kept that, she's you're always on that.

Another one I'd keep.

My probably just my email and my my instant messenger.

Yeah, that's fair.

Easy enough.

I'm a simple guy.

You know what?

That's what we as a royal match is on there.

I think that's what it's called.

Yeah.

Not a sponsor.

Yeah.

It could be Ryan of all the characters that you have.

Drawn in your career.

What's the favorite?

I like Donald Duck.

Yep.

It kind of gets a bad rap.

He doesn't get enough, you know, of the spotlight.

That's right.

Yeah.

Mickey always takes it from him.

He's always been my favorite as far as animated characters.

I probably have to say.

I like Arthur.

I like that whole series.

I'm big on the education.

I'll show you the series.

I'm big on the educational shows that have like a lesson at the

end of each episode.

The younger kids stuff.

It kind of like helps mold kids a little bit.

Love it.

Yeah.

You what are you most excited about right now?

March Madness.

Yeah, buddy.

Yeah, buddy.

I mean, who are we shooting for?

I'd say Notre Dame.

Yeah.

I can't say IU either.

I'd like to see Purdue win.

Yeah.

If they can make it past the first or second round, I think they'll be fine.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Good.

Okay.

Next question.

How quickly can you do a rough sketch of Arthur if you were given like seconds?

Oh, man.

Arthur's easy.

Okay.

Here we go.

This is the visual part.

So we're going to see Ryan.

Do we have a camera on him right now?

I gave him the crowd.

I thought I was a good pen.

I gave him a crappy pen.

Nice.

Okay.

Seeing it come together.

Kind of kind of mad, but this is the darker.

Nice.

Okay.

You got to do your signature at the bottom too.

I'll draw you Mickey instead.

Okay.

He's going to do Mickey instead.

All right.

Great.

He doesn't want to just put his name, his signature on just in the old thing.

Circle.

What Ryan is really, what Ryan is really showing us is that any moron can drop.

It's just a serious, serious of circles.

You gave him the crappy pen.

I thought I'd give him a good pen.

Come on, Joel.

He's out of ink already.

The question is how fast can you do it without a ink?

Yeah.

We'll really see.

We'll really see what he brings to do.

Okay.

Here we go.

Well, it looks like that markers running out of ink too.

Yeah.

This is what we like to keep everything from clearly our office supplies.

Here.

This is what I need more patriots.

Yeah.

That's right.

Thank you for only $2 a month.

You can help us get pens in this office that actually work.

There we go.

There we go.

Little rough, but.

But hey.

See kids, it's not that it's not that it's not that hard.

It's totally, it's totally doable.

I'm sure at the bottom you got us, you got us, you got to officially sign it.

That way we, that way.

Perfect.

Yeah.

Perfect.

Beautiful.

Okay.

Guys.

Andy, do you have one more question?

No, I'm done.

Okay.

Fantastic.

Congratulations.

He's, he literally illustrated his way through the pop quiz, which is a first.

This is a first.

So congratulations.

He passed with flying colors.

Well done.

Thank you guys.

Yes.

Ryan, thanks for coming.

Hang out with us.

Appreciate it.

Thanks guys.

It was fun.

Yeah.

Well, we, we try.

I don't have a voice for podcasting like you guys, but she got a face for one.

And that's, yeah, that's what I've been told.

That's why I was an Anna.

There we go.

Hey, as always guys, you can head over to dudes and dads podcast.

And check on the show notes and previous episodes.

We've never had voicemail.

Well, no, we have, but not lately.

So you can leave us a voicemail at 574 213 8702 dudes and dads podcast at gmail.com is a great

place to send emails to us, which we then read.

And if you send us emails that have ideas for future shows, that's even better.

So go ahead, go ahead and give us the ideas.

Or maybe you've got, maybe you've got a question for one of our guests that you'd like us to

pass along.

We would love to do that.

Always love to do that.

Connect to you with people who know stuff.

So hey guys, thanks.

And we've run out of the music.

Fantastic.

Guys, thanks so much for hanging out with us again.

And as always, we wish you grace and peace.

Peace.