How I Got Hired in Product with Bryan Postelnek

Tim Winkler: 00:00:00

Hey, listeners, Tim Winkler here, your host of The Pair Program.

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Becca Moran: I'm Becca, and

this is How I Got Hired.

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How I Got Hired is a series of

interviews where product managers share

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how they landed great product roles.

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From PMs who made a career pivot into

tech, to those with more formal training,

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How I Got Hired captures the various ways

to open doors into the world of product.

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We'll be talking about each guest's

recipe for success, what motivated

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them to get into product, How they

prepared for the interview and what

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they did to set themselves apart.

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For today, my conversation with Brian,

I have the pleasure of being able to

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talk about the other side of the table,

uh, as the person that hired him.

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Um, just for a little bit of background on

me, uh, your host, my name is Becca Moran.

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Um, I am currently the VP of product

and engagement at Procurated,

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which is a rating and review

site for the public sector.

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We get into that a little bit more, uh,

in a minute, but, um, my guest today.

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Is Brian who, uh, I had the

pleasure of working with over

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the last few years at Procurated.

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And, uh, we hired Brian from

Angie, aka Angie's List.

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Um, and that's the story

we'll be talking about today.

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So, um, before we get into

things just to, uh, kick it off

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and break the ice a little bit.

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I thought it would be fun for us to play

a little bit of, uh, 2 truths and a lie.

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So, Brian, did you prepare

your truths and lines?

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Bryan Postelnek: I did.

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Uh, I did.

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And thank you for having me here.

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Becca.

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Um, long time listener.

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Uh, first, first, first time, uh, joining

first time calling in, um, no, yes, I

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did prepare and I had to think about.

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Yeah, I have a theme, uh, to my,

my two truths and a lie, you know,

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I put some effort into this one.

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Okay.

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Becca Moran: Um, do you want to go first?

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You want me to go first?

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Bryan Postelnek: Sure.

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Sure.

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I'll go first.

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Um, so, uh, two truths and a lie.

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Uh, so one of these, one of these

is a lie, but the theme, uh, I, I

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figured, you know, uh, true crime

podcasts are all the rage these days.

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And so I figured I would talk

about, list out your crimes, confess

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to crimes, uh, on the air today.

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Yeah, right.

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I confess to, uh, you know, things that

are not, um, like, uh, like illegal,

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I guess, like things that you would,

you would get in trouble for doing.

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Okay.

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Um, when I was in high school in

particular, uh, so they're all,

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they're all, uh, you know, crime

adjacent, if not actual crimes.

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Um, uh, but when I was in high school,

so surely the statute of limitations, no

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one's going to come after me for these.

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Um, so, uh, number one, uh, I broke

into my crush's locker to fill it

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with candy for Valentine's day.

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Number two, uh, I snuck myself

and my friends into a Batman

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movie in IMAX in New York city.

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And number three, I went out to the

guidance counselor's computer and

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changed someone else's schedule.

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Becca Moran: Ooh.

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I feel like all of those sound like the

plot of, like, a classic teen movie or,

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like, scenes in a classic teen movie.

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Bryan Postelnek: I mean, I was a teen,

so, you know, I was just limping out what

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I saw on television and in the movies.

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Becca Moran: I'm gonna guess that filling

your crush's locker with candy is a lie.

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Bryan Postelnek: Uh, you're correct.

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I have not broken into anyone's locker.

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I didn't, I didn't, uh, cross that,

that line, which I think is actually,

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um, the most illegal one of them.

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I, if I were to, to put my finger on it.

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Um, I did sneak my Whose, whose

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Becca Moran: schedule

did you change and why?

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Bryan Postelnek: Um, so, uh, my wife's.

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Uh, there's a, there's a whole, even in

my wedding vows, uh, I talk about this.

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I say, I say like I committed

a minor cybercrime by, by,

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by changing her schedule.

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Your early days of hacking.

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Yeah.

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Uh, it's, uh, yeah, what, what happened

was, uh, the guidance counselor had

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left the room as she tells the story

was like, I just went on the computer.

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I, you know, he might've

given me permission.

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I might've just gone on there.

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Who's to really tell at this point?

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Because.

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He doesn't work at the school anymore.

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Uh, so, uh, yeah, I changed her schedule.

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Um, cause she needed to, she wanted to

take drama again and, uh, she needed

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to also like take some other classes.

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And so like I rearranged her schedule

and, uh, funny enough, my wife is a,

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uh, a professor of social psychology.

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Uh, I put her in AP psychology.

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Which, uh, so you changed

the course of her life?

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I did.

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I think she didn't have any

business being in that class.

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Like, yeah.

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Uh, like, you know, she didn't

take like a, a prereq or something

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that maybe some people took.

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I was just like, yeah, put you in here.

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I put her in AP Biology.

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Um, and we actually, you know, we, we both

ended up taking that drama class together.

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Um, she was in the room.

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Mm-hmm.

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So also, I should clarify that she was

in the room when I changed the schedule.

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It wasn't just like, I like this girl.

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Change your schedule.

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Yeah, no, like it.

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It was it was all there.

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That's

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Becca Moran: amazing.

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Um, I'm also impressed that, like,

in my mind, this, the software

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that you would use to schedule

high school classes, like, doesn't

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naturally sound very user friendly.

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So I'm kind of like, you could

just jump on there and be like,

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Bryan Postelnek: like,

yeah, that's a good point.

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You know, Katie and I don't talk much

about like, what did that interface look

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like that just made this so easy for me

to just go and do, but I guess it must've

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just been like, you know, drop down,

pick a class, make sure there's room.

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Becca Moran: Kudos to the, uh,

the product person that built

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whatever software that is.

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That's right.

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Bryan Postelnek: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So that's, uh, that's, that's me.

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Becca Moran: Amazing.

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All right.

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I also had a theme, not a crime

theme, but maybe I'll keep that

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in mind for future episodes.

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Um, okay.

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So mine is all kind of medical

issue related without getting

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Bryan Postelnek: too personal.

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I mean, that's also, that's

also a popular theme, like, you

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know, uh, medical mysteries.

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Becca Moran: My strange ailment.

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Yeah.

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Um, these are not mysterious though.

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I will say.

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Um, okay.

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So number one, uh, in high school

I was sleepwalking and fell from

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a loft and broke my collarbone.

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Number two, I was born tongue

tied or number three, I recently

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ended up in the telomere failure.

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Okay.

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The top of a cheerleading pyramid,

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Bryan Postelnek: I'm not, you didn't

ask me any clarifying questions, but

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like, I'm like, how recent was this?

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Uh, that, that you tried that.

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Um, I'm going to say that, uh, you

were not born with a tongue tie.

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That would be wrong.

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Was it?

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Do I want to be wrong twice?

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Um, uh, I'm gonna guess,

uh, The cheerleading one.

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Now you fell.

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Becca Moran: Yes.

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So, uh, I, the, uh, the cheerleading one

was recently it was Easter of this year.

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Um, my, uh, cousins are to blame for

their lack of strength and ability.

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My lack of balance and grace

and sobriety was a factor.

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But, um, no, that's a real story.

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Uh, I have the ER bill to prove it.

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Um, I was also born tongue tied and

I, uh, had, I could talk totally fine,

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but like weirdly in middle school,

I decided that I absolutely must

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have the surgery to like, correct

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Bryan Postelnek: it.

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Yeah.

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I'm like, I'm like, you know, I thought

maybe I would hear it or something when

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you talked that, like some evidence.

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Well, and

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Becca Moran: that was the thing, like,

as a kid, my parents were like, well,

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we'll see if she can talk right or not.

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And then I was fine.

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And then I was like, no,

I can't be different.

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I need

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Bryan Postelnek: to, I need to correct

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Becca Moran: this.

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Yeah.

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Anyway.

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Um, but no, I did not sleepwalk

and fall and break my collarbone.

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I have actually.

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Even despite the cheerleading

incident, never broken a bone.

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Um, but that is a real story.

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My friend in high school did do

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Bryan Postelnek: that.

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So, wow.

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You know, I think, I think you really

played on what I knew about you.

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Uh, and, uh, but I didn't know, cause I

didn't know that you never broke a bone.

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Um, I did know, uh, like sleeping

was, was a medical concern for you.

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So that's good.

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Well done.

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Well done.

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Um, well.

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Becca Moran: I, um, I would have tried

to think of a good segue into our

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Bryan Postelnek: story, but who really

the audience decides if it's a good segue.

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It's not up to us.

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So

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Becca Moran: thank you.

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And, and you're the, the segue King.

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So I wouldn't want to insult you.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But, um, we can, uh, we can get into

a little bit of the story of, uh,

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how we met and your unique journey

into, you know, Um, the product

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role at Recurated and, and all that.

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So I guess maybe as a good place

to start for our listeners, um.

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Would be if you could talk a little bit

about kind of rewinding two and a half,

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almost three years ago, kind of where

were you, what was going on, uh, in your

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life at the time in terms of your, you

can go broad, but maybe specifically in

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terms of your, your role at, at Angie and.

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Um, kind of what pain is the scene

leading up to, uh, your interview at

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Bryan Postelnek: procurated.

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Yeah, so, uh, leading up to

interviewing at procurated.

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Um, so for context, I think it was

either the very end of October or it

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was the very beginning of November

: 2020

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LinkedIn message from Anessa, um, the

recruiter y'all were working with.

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So shout out to Anessa.

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Um, just call them out as I see them.

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Uh, but at the time I was working

at Angie's list, um, I was

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the, I was a product manager.

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I was responsible for, um, the

service provider mobile app.

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Um, and there we were, uh, I was

starting to get a little bit of traction

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for some stuff we wanted to do there.

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I'd like just put together a presentation

around, um, uh, some advancements

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I wanted to make in it and starting

to get some, some buy in for that.

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And also at the same time, we had

just started pivoting internally for.

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Um, the rebranding, um, from

Angie's list to Angie, um,

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Becca Moran: had you, what was

the status of the home advisor

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merge acquisition or, oh,

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Bryan Postelnek: yeah, the home

advisor merger started like a

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month after I joined in 2017.

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Uh, so.

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Uh, so that was like May, June

of: 2017

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Um, by now we were well merged.

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Um, you know, still some things here

and there that, that didn't quite

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get coupled yet and still some things

that were completely distinct and

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owned by their team versus ours.

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Um, but this was we had known for a

little bit that, uh, that the rebranding

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was going to happen and we're starting

to move everything in the direction of,

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you know, we had like a hard deadline for

when the, the rebrand was going to happen.

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So we're starting to organize

everyone that direction.

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I was working on, um, some payments

feature, I think some payments

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and billing and invoicing as

well within the pro mobile app.

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Uh, so I was working on all those things.

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Um, and I wasn't really looking,

honestly, um, you know, I, uh, I thought

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that I was going to stay on for a

little bit, see how the rebrand goes.

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Um, but then I got this, uh, this message

from Vanessa and, you know, uh, I guess

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the other things to paint the picture

at the time is we're in the middle of

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a pandemic and I was living in Ohio.

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Um, so just imagine me in a, in

a 2 bedroom apartment in Dublin,

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Ohio, uh, sit on my computer and

then LinkedIn message comes along.

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Um, and I was really

excited because, uh, yeah.

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Yeah, I love it when people reach

out to me and are interested in me.

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So there's this vanity.

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Yeah, I do.

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Like when I'm not even doing

anything, they just like say,

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Hey, uh, would you like this job?

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Uh, but, uh, that, and, and, you

know, I remember distinctly, you

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know, Anessa in the message described,

you know, some of the, some of the

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impact and the mission of procuring.

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And I was like, Oh,

this sounds interesting.

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You know, I don't really know what I'm

getting myself into, but I'll take a crack

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at it and, and see, um, see where it goes.

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Yeah, well,

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Becca Moran: I'll give a little bit of

the perspective kind of from the other

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side of things, um, to share with folks

kind of where we were at that point.

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So, um, when I joined procurated,

um, employee number 1, um, I was

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doing a little bit of everything as,

um, tends to happen at that stage.

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And, um, For a while was kind of

the, the person doing the, all of

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the day to day product work and.

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Um, at this point, we had kind of

grown to a size where just was not

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feasible for me to be doing all of

that in addition to other things.

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And, um, our engineering team had grown.

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I think we were, I guess we hired

a few engineers, like, right,

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started like the same time as you.

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Um, so we had a team of five folks.

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Yeah, it was five when I joined.

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So, yeah.

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You know, I, I can't keep up.

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I couldn't keep up with,

uh, with 5 engineers.

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So, um, you know, we were really

thinking about in an ideal world,

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finding somebody that had worked for

a ratings and review platform, even

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though, you know, we're focused on the

public sector, very different than, um,

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you know, The, the space that Angie's

list is, is focused on, but tons and

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tons of parallels and, um, we can talk

about this more in a bit, but I think

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that's certainly 1 of the reasons that

you were able to hit the ground running.

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Um, so, yeah, I think when Vanessa

found you, it was like, this is a

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great profile of of someone with

a really relevant experience.

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So.

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I also want to just rewind

maybe 1 step further.

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Um, uh, I think the where you were

in terms of Angie's list is relevant.

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Um, but I also think you have kind of

a cool path in terms of, like, what you

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studied and, um, some of your, like,

initial startup work that you did.

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So, um, do you want to

talk about that for a

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Bryan Postelnek: minute to.

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Yeah, um, yeah, so, like, uh, my

background background, if you rewind 10

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plus years ago, uh, is, uh, you know,

I had an engineering undergraduate

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degree with a minor in theater.

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It still says on my resume,

a minor in theater because I,

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it was almost a double major.

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Uh, uh, but.

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We've heard it

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Becca Moran: started in high school

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Bryan Postelnek: drama class.

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: 00:17:18

Yeah, right?

313

: 00:17:18

Yeah.

314

: 00:17:18

It's high school drama class and I

did some more theater in college.

315

: 00:17:22

Um, that's that's a whole another

story about different career paths.

316

: 00:17:25

I think I could have gone down.

317

: 00:17:27

Um, could have been an actor.

318

: 00:17:29

I think honestly, I thought I was

going to be like a playwright.

319

: 00:17:32

Um, I've really enjoyed

the playwriting professor.

320

: 00:17:35

I had in college, uh, it

was, it was a lot of fun.

321

: 00:17:38

Uh, so, uh, so I did that and then I, I,

uh, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do.

322

: 00:17:44

And I found, uh, Lehigh

was doing this program.

323

: 00:17:47

Uh, the first class of it, they

were doing something called the

324

: 00:17:49

masters of engineering and technical

entrepreneurship applied, got in.

325

: 00:17:53

Um, and the, the, so I was the first

class of this and, uh, it was pretty much

326

: 00:17:58

combining, uh, how to start a startup.

327

: 00:18:01

You know, going through, you know,

understanding business financials,

328

: 00:18:04

understanding like what it means to

raise money, like pitching our ideas,

329

: 00:18:07

actually working on ideas that we had.

330

: 00:18:10

And then, um, you know, the product

development, um, of it all too.

331

: 00:18:14

So under like prototyping and getting

feedback and, um, you know, doing user

332

: 00:18:18

interviews, uh, you know, all the way

up to as far as you could bring it in

333

: 00:18:23

one year, um, you know, while doing

coursework that aligns with this, but

334

: 00:18:26

also learning things at the same time.

335

: 00:18:28

So really, you know, you could think

of as like, An accelerator incubator

336

: 00:18:33

for this type of thing, but you also

get a professional degree out of it.

337

: 00:18:37

Um, and, you know, I worked on my

own idea and then I was like, oh,

338

: 00:18:41

that's never going to work or slash.

339

: 00:18:42

I don't want to do it.

340

: 00:18:43

Um, it was a live stream theater, and

of course, I had a funny name for it

341

: 00:18:48

called the not theater theater company.

342

: 00:18:50

Because I'm like, it's not the same

thing anyway, and then I worked

343

: 00:18:54

on a friend's project as well.

344

: 00:18:56

Uh, and so that's that's how

I got, you know, a lot of

345

: 00:19:01

like, uh, product development.

346

: 00:19:04

Excitement and learning about, you know,

the world, I think, set me up for some

347

: 00:19:07

success later on having a good foundation.

348

: 00:19:11

Uh, and, uh, yeah, from there, I got an,

uh, uh, I worked at a series B startup

349

: 00:19:17

in New York, um, and they're making

marketing technology products and, uh, and

350

: 00:19:22

I learned a lot on the ground there and,

uh, you know, fell on my face a lot there.

351

: 00:19:28

Um, you know, learning about, you know,

You know, APIs and, you know, campaign

352

: 00:19:34

builders working with developers, uh,

working with designers because I had,

353

: 00:19:37

like, you didn't do any of that in

the master's program, but you didn't

354

: 00:19:40

worry about software development.

355

: 00:19:41

It was mainly a hardware focused school.

356

: 00:19:44

Uh, so, you know, just a lot of

learning on that job and learn,

357

: 00:19:48

learning it very difficultly.

358

: 00:19:50

Uh, if that's a word, uh, uh,

because I also, my, my then

359

: 00:19:56

girlfriend, now wife moved to

Indiana for her, for her schooling.

360

: 00:20:00

And so I was actually, um, commuting

back and forth, uh, staying a few

361

: 00:20:04

weeks in New Jersey at a time.

362

: 00:20:06

To go work in New York and then

working remote from Indiana.

363

: 00:20:09

Otherwise, that's that's a long answer.

364

: 00:20:12

Yeah, that's a long answer

about, like, how I got started.

365

: 00:20:14

Kind of, um, I got started

with an internship.

366

: 00:20:17

Actually,

367

: 00:20:18

Becca Moran: it's super interesting.

368

: 00:20:19

Kind of what you said about, uh, kind

of learn by fire and like, in comparison

369

: 00:20:25

to what you learned in the course.

370

: 00:20:27

Right?

371

: 00:20:27

Like, I think, A course can be a really

incredible way to learn all of the,

372

: 00:20:35

like, best practices or whatever.

373

: 00:20:38

Like, here's what you should do.

374

: 00:20:39

I think when you actually are in a role,

a lot of that stuff kind of goes out

375

: 00:20:43

the window and you're like, uh, okay,

well, like what do I, I'm encountering

376

: 00:20:49

countless scenarios that mm-hmm.

377

: 00:20:51

, you know, as a class would never teach me.

378

: 00:20:54

Um, and I do think that there's

a lot of it that's just kind

379

: 00:20:57

of, Bumbling through it at 1st.

380

: 00:21:00

Um, I know my experience with that.

381

: 00:21:03

So I started before I moved into product.

382

: 00:21:05

I was a technical project

manager at Politico and.

383

: 00:21:10

Um, before that I was in sales and when

I moved over from sales to tech, like, I

384

: 00:21:16

just remember sitting in so many meetings

with our engineers just being like, I

385

: 00:21:20

have no idea what anyone is talking about.

386

: 00:21:24

Like I couldn't even grasp like anything,

I was just like, this is gibberish to me.

387

: 00:21:31

And, um, it definitely took a while

to spend a lot of Googling and a lot

388

: 00:21:35

of just asking questions to, uh, be

able to start piecing it together.

389

: 00:21:40

But, um, yeah, that's, you know,

everybody has to start somewhere

390

: 00:21:45

and it can be a very humbling

experience when you realize that.

391

: 00:21:50

A lot of it is just learning by doing

and making a lot of mistakes and

392

: 00:21:54

oh, yeah, you know, I'm just saying,

okay, I don't not sure what else

393

: 00:21:58

to do, but I won't do that again.

394

: 00:22:00

Bryan Postelnek: Right?

395

: 00:22:01

And like, I feel like, you know,

yeah, I have that background in

396

: 00:22:04

the degree and then, you know,

you read like Kagan's books.

397

: 00:22:08

Um, to try to, like, understand,

like, here's how it should work.

398

: 00:22:11

And it's like, well, okay.

399

: 00:22:12

So, again, all these things are, like,

best practices, you know, the, the,

400

: 00:22:16

the reality of the world is tugging you

towards, uh, chaos or, you know, the, the

401

: 00:22:21

least amount of friction to get something

done, um, or power, you know, uh, power

402

: 00:22:27

dynamics with an organization, uh, you

know, but it's good to know those things.

403

: 00:22:31

Like, it's good to know, like, here,

here's a version of the world that's

404

: 00:22:36

Idealistic, uh, maybe possible

under the right circumstances.

405

: 00:22:42

Um, and if you agree with it,

just start, you know, tugging

406

: 00:22:46

yourself and the processes towards

that, um, as, as much as you can.

407

: 00:22:51

Um, and then adjusting, of course,

for your, for your various cultures.

408

: 00:22:55

Um, but it's good to know, because then

you can once, you know, like, kind of like

409

: 00:22:59

best practices, you can then be creative

on top of it about what works for you.

410

: 00:23:03

Becca Moran: I'll say that's definitely

something that appealed to me about

411

: 00:23:07

joining a very early stage startup.

412

: 00:23:10

Like I said, employee

number 1, I was like, Ooh.

413

: 00:23:13

This is cool.

414

: 00:23:14

Like, I, I can create

this, um, product culture.

415

: 00:23:20

Um, and, um, so that was very

interesting to me where you're, you're

416

: 00:23:26

not kind of coming into, uh, something

that's already established and.

417

: 00:23:31

And lamenting the, you know,

like, oh, you know, it should

418

: 00:23:34

be done this way, not that way.

419

: 00:23:35

Right.

420

: 00:23:36

And, and of course, like, you realize

that even with a clean slate, it's

421

: 00:23:42

very hard to kind of model things

after the, the best practice.

422

: 00:23:46

For lots of different reasons,

but, um, yeah, that was definitely

423

: 00:23:50

something that appealed to me.

424

: 00:23:53

Anyway, let's see back to our story,

so we've got some good context on, uh.

425

: 00:23:59

Where you were, what was

going on in your head?

426

: 00:24:01

Um.

427

: 00:24:02

Let's talk a little bit about,

um, you know, what you remember

428

: 00:24:06

about kind of the, the interview

process and preparing for it.

429

: 00:24:11

Um, if you can share just some thoughts

on, like, what are some of the things

430

: 00:24:17

that you remember doing in preparation

for the interviews that we did with you?

431

: 00:24:23

What are some things that kind of

stand out to you as as maybe things

432

: 00:24:27

that helped you in that process?

433

: 00:24:29

Bryan Postelnek: Yeah, uh, in terms

of like preparation, um, I'll admit

434

: 00:24:33

I probably didn't do very much, uh,

because, um, I'm, I'm, I'm like that,

435

: 00:24:39

I guess we're like, you know, like for

the first one, I'm just like, I'm just

436

: 00:24:41

going to hear what we're going to talk

about, feel it out, see what's going on.

437

: 00:24:45

Um, I don't even remember who

the 1st person I talked to was.

438

: 00:24:48

I might have done a phone

screening with Vanessa.

439

: 00:24:51

Um, and then I talked to you probably,

because that would seem like a logical

440

: 00:24:55

order of events, um, you know, uh, you

know, and got progressively more excited.

441

: 00:25:01

I think I talked to you.

442

: 00:25:03

Um, I, I distinctly remember, uh, like.

443

: 00:25:08

I feel like I distinctly remember

as I went on the interview

444

: 00:25:11

process, I dressed nicer and nicer.

445

: 00:25:13

I was just like, wearing like, you know,

like a sweatshirt for like, the 1st 1

446

: 00:25:17

and then the next 1 is like a, like a

447

: 00:25:19

Becca Moran: shirt, right?

448

: 00:25:19

Like, sometimes.

449

: 00:25:21

The startup vibe is super cat sometimes.

450

: 00:25:24

It's

451

: 00:25:24

Bryan Postelnek: not.

452

: 00:25:25

I think I just wanted the job more and

more as I like started talking to y'all.

453

: 00:25:29

I was like, I really like these folks like

454

: 00:25:31

Becca Moran: the final

interview with like a tuxedo on.

455

: 00:25:33

That's right.

456

: 00:25:34

I really, really

457

: 00:25:34

Bryan Postelnek: want this.

458

: 00:25:36

Please, uh, but yeah, no, I

remember, uh, you know, I had

459

: 00:25:41

a great conversation with you.

460

: 00:25:42

I think then I talked to, um,

George and Jacqueline, right?

461

: 00:25:46

Um, as my, my next round

462

: 00:25:49

Becca Moran: are us designer and 1 of our

463

: 00:25:51

Bryan Postelnek: engineers.

464

: 00:25:51

Yes.

465

: 00:25:52

Uh, and then, uh, I did the final round.

466

: 00:25:58

Um, yeah, cause that was the

first time I met, I met Jess.

467

: 00:26:01

Um, and so I did the final round with

you, David was there, uh, Jess was there.

468

: 00:26:08

And then I, in my notes,

it says Jenna's here too.

469

: 00:26:11

Um, that's possible.

470

: 00:26:13

It's possible.

471

: 00:26:16

About it.

472

: 00:26:17

And you know, the, what it says

next to Jess's name is operations,

473

: 00:26:21

question mark, question mark.

474

: 00:26:22

Like, I'm like, I don't,

I in the audience.

475

: 00:26:25

Yeah.

476

: 00:26:25

Um, but, uh, but for that, you know,

so like, I didn't, I didn't prepare

477

: 00:26:29

much for the first few interviews.

478

: 00:26:31

I talked about my story, um, for the

final round, I had a presentation to do.

479

: 00:26:36

Um, and that was a presentation

around, I want to say like virality

480

: 00:26:40

and like how to make the product more

viral and, you know, to pre that one

481

: 00:26:44

I had to prepare for, of course, but.

482

: 00:26:46

That's why

483

: 00:26:47

Becca Moran: we were really focused

on the love as a product, uh,

484

: 00:26:52

kind of like theme, uh, which was.

485

: 00:26:54

This idea that, um, yeah, I guess it

was like thinking about really how do

486

: 00:27:02

we kind of make our product go viral?

487

: 00:27:05

How do we make people love it so

much that they can't help, but tell

488

: 00:27:07

other people or whatever, um, I'm

kind of laughing as I say this.

489

: 00:27:13

Um, I'm full disclosure.

490

: 00:27:15

I'm not sure we figured that out,

but that's, and that's probably in

491

: 00:27:19

some shape or form, the goal of.

492

: 00:27:21

Uh, any product team, but, um, you

know, I, it, but I guess maybe to give

493

: 00:27:27

us a little bit more credit, like it

is a very, um, important potential

494

: 00:27:32

strategy for as like a growth mechanism,

especially in like marketplace businesses.

495

: 00:27:38

Um, so, you know, it was relevant

is relevant, but, um, how did you

496

: 00:27:45

like think about, you know, I feel

like those challenges, even You

497

: 00:27:50

know, as someone who creates them,

I'm always like, is this fair?

498

: 00:27:54

Like, it's really hard as the hiring

manager to like remove yourself from

499

: 00:27:59

the business and think about like,

what's a fair prompt to ask someone that

500

: 00:28:05

reasonably like, shouldn't have much

depth of understanding of like what our

501

: 00:28:11

business is and what our product does.

502

: 00:28:12

So like, um, either in relation

to the specific prompt that you

503

: 00:28:18

worked on for us, or just how you

think about this in general, like.

504

: 00:28:21

How do you overcome that?

505

: 00:28:25

Bryan Postelnek: Yeah, I

think that, uh, it's tough.

506

: 00:28:29

I think that I don't recall the prompt

being particularly like difficult to

507

: 00:28:33

grasp what was going on at Brooke.

508

: 00:28:34

You're like, or at least what

you wanted from me, right?

509

: 00:28:36

Like, there's assumptions

I'm going to make.

510

: 00:28:38

I have this whole like brain dump

document that I'm looking at that I dug

511

: 00:28:41

up because I'm like, I wonder what I used

to think or how I did prepare for this.

512

: 00:28:45

And I did bring up, I built

a presentation on top of it.

513

: 00:28:48

Um, but I think that, uh, I think,

yeah, it's a balance because you

514

: 00:28:54

don't want to like put, you know, a

lot of You want it to be easy enough

515

: 00:28:58

for the person who's interviewing in

order to grasp whatever's going on.

516

: 00:29:02

Um, I also struggle a little bit with Um,

you know, there's, there's talk, there's

517

: 00:29:11

talk about, you know, uh, like the prompts

being a form of like free consulting,

518

: 00:29:17

um, on behalf of the interviewees.

519

: 00:29:20

Yeah.

520

: 00:29:20

Uh, and so I think, you know, if I

were to take another crack at like,

521

: 00:29:24

you know, I did one for the designer we

hired and was similar, like, you know,

522

: 00:29:27

thinking about, um, you know, what is

going to be meaningful that has good

523

: 00:29:32

context for our business so they can

get excited about what we're working on.

524

: 00:29:35

Like there's that like balance.

525

: 00:29:38

Um, because you want them

to, like, kind of start to

526

: 00:29:40

understand here's the business.

527

: 00:29:42

Um, you know, when we say Yelp for

government, was that really mean, uh, or

528

: 00:29:47

some of the underlying things you're gonna

have to think about, but you also don't

529

: 00:29:50

want to, you know, them to feel like, oh,

I'm just giving them my ideas for free.

530

: 00:29:54

Yeah, they may or may not hire me.

531

: 00:29:58

So I think it's just about like

being really thoughtful about it.

532

: 00:30:02

And I think there's ways that you can

look at, um, other, other companies

533

: 00:30:08

and just leverage their company

as like what you would do here.

534

: 00:30:11

Like if it were, you know, you know,

it could have been a prompter on like

535

: 00:30:15

Yelp and how to make Yelp's viral

coefficient, um, higher or something.

536

: 00:30:20

Um, so that you can, an

analogous business, but a totally

537

: 00:30:24

different set of circumstances.

538

: 00:30:26

I like that kind of

539

: 00:30:26

Becca Moran: translating it to something

you do know, um, which I think is a really

540

: 00:30:32

great way to then be able to demonstrate,

like, how you think about something.

541

: 00:30:38

Right?

542

: 00:30:38

Because I think that's the thing.

543

: 00:30:39

And a lot of these situations

and interviews, um.

544

: 00:30:43

People say that about, like, kind of

a case study type question, you know,

545

: 00:30:47

how many windows are there and, uh, uh,

buildings in Manhattan or whatever, right?

546

: 00:30:52

Like, it's not really about

getting the right answer.

547

: 00:30:55

It's just showing, like, okay, are,

are you thoughtful and logical in the

548

: 00:31:00

way that you work through the question?

549

: 00:31:03

And how does that provide some

insight into to how you think?

550

: 00:31:07

So I think to your point,

if you can find something.

551

: 00:31:11

Analogous to the the business

and then relate to it that way.

552

: 00:31:17

That's a really good strategy.

553

: 00:31:21

That's awesome.

554

: 00:31:22

Um, looking back, is there

anything you wish you knew about

555

: 00:31:28

the company or the role that, um.

556

: 00:31:33

I don't know, like, would have helped

you in the process or like that you just.

557

: 00:31:38

I feel like maybe you should

have known going in that you

558

: 00:31:40

didn't know, like it's yeah.

559

: 00:31:42

Reflecting back, any thoughts

560

: 00:31:44

Bryan Postelnek: on that?

561

: 00:31:45

Uh, I will say, um, don't be like

me and not research the company

562

: 00:31:50

before you go interview for

like, no, we still got the job.

563

: 00:31:53

So I still got the job.

564

: 00:31:55

Yeah.

565

: 00:31:55

There's like, I loved

working at procreated.

566

: 00:31:57

So like, you know, don't, don't, uh,

uh, there's like the, the pro con here.

567

: 00:32:03

Like, I'm not saying

like research it because.

568

: 00:32:05

I, you know, I got into something terrible

and you will too, yeah, uh, I lucked

569

: 00:32:11

out like all things, all things here.

570

: 00:32:13

I was very fortunate and lucky

to, to work with you all and, and

571

: 00:32:17

have a lot of fun doing it and,

uh, and build some cool stuff.

572

: 00:32:20

Uh, but I would say, do I'm in the

interviewing process now, and I'm,

573

: 00:32:23

you know, doing my research on these

companies as I, you know, start to hear

574

: 00:32:27

back from them and, um, start to get

farther in, um, it takes time, of course.

575

: 00:32:32

Which is the takes time and effort.

576

: 00:32:34

Um, and you kind of just want to go.

577

: 00:32:36

Go through the interviewing process.

578

: 00:32:37

What are

579

: 00:32:38

Becca Moran: some tips

on, like, that research?

580

: 00:32:41

Like, I remember, I remember, like,

when I first graduated from college

581

: 00:32:46

and was interviewing and trying to

get a job, I, you know, at that age,

582

: 00:32:51

you just, like, don't know anything.

583

: 00:32:52

I remember, like, going through

company websites and, like, trying

584

: 00:32:55

to memorize, like, I don't know who

was on their board of directors and

585

: 00:33:00

like, just like all of this stuff.

586

: 00:33:02

Cause I'm like, I don't know

what they're going to ask me.

587

: 00:33:03

I don't know what they care about.

588

: 00:33:05

Um, like what are some things that you

really try to focus in on when you're

589

: 00:33:09

researching a company actually are helpful

and important in the interview process?

590

: 00:33:17

Bryan Postelnek: Yeah.

591

: 00:33:18

I think what's, what's, uh, when I'm

researching the company, not talking

592

: 00:33:22

to them, cause there's so many things

you pick up on when you talk to them.

593

: 00:33:25

Um, you know, I, I'm looking

at Glassdoor comparably.

594

: 00:33:29

Blind team, blind.

595

: 00:33:31

com, um, seeing what, what's written on

the internet about them, looking at their

596

: 00:33:35

lot places have great careers pages now,

um, that tell you about their culture.

597

: 00:33:41

Um, and then, uh, to like understand

what they're building, like going on

598

: 00:33:46

the website, if, if there's a free

version of their tool to download

599

: 00:33:48

or get into, that's always good.

600

: 00:33:50

Um, what I, what I found, um, when,

when there's nothing, when it's

601

: 00:33:55

like, I don't really understand what

this is, but I'm excited about their

602

: 00:33:57

mission and what it sounds like.

603

: 00:33:59

Um, honestly, podcasts and

YouTube videos these days, um,

604

: 00:34:04

I sound like such an old man.

605

: 00:34:05

I'm like, look at these fancy

ways of finding out information,

606

: 00:34:09

the, the YouTube and the podcast.

607

: 00:34:10

Have you heard of YouTube?

608

: 00:34:11

Becca Moran: This new site?

609

: 00:34:13

Bryan Postelnek: SoundCloud

hosts audiophiles.

610

: 00:34:15

Uh, yeah.

611

: 00:34:17

So you, so I was doing research on one,

on a, a series A startup and I'm like,

612

: 00:34:21

Oh, yeah, You know, I don't, I don't

know, um, I kind of get what's going

613

: 00:34:25

on here, like, but, but I really like

to prep for the recruiter interview.

614

: 00:34:29

And so I listened to like an hour long

podcast with the founders, um, that

615

: 00:34:34

they were on, uh, they were guest guest,

um, participants on podcast talking

616

: 00:34:38

about their company and what they did.

617

: 00:34:39

And I was like, okay, like I get it now.

618

: 00:34:41

I understand how you make money.

619

: 00:34:43

I understand what you're doing.

620

: 00:34:44

Um, it really helps to,

uh, put it in context.

621

: 00:34:48

So anything where you can find

like high level employees.

622

: 00:34:52

Um, from those companies on some

type of media, I think really helps

623

: 00:34:55

you hear it out loud and how they

describe it in order to contextualize

624

: 00:35:02

Becca Moran: it.

625

: 00:35:02

I think that's a great point.

626

: 00:35:03

I have honestly been shocked,

not just for product rule.

627

: 00:35:07

I mean, I think to me, it's like

table stakes for a product rule,

628

: 00:35:11

like use the product, right?

629

: 00:35:14

Um, you know, yeah.

630

: 00:35:16

Play around with it as much as you can.

631

: 00:35:18

Um, going into the interview, but

really for any role, like, so we're

632

: 00:35:25

curated is you have to, um, log

in to be able to access the vast

633

: 00:35:29

majority of the functionality.

634

: 00:35:30

And, um, I'm always surprised when people

we interviewed don't ask us for access.

635

: 00:35:36

Um, because like, how do you,

I'm not sure you, how you really.

636

: 00:35:43

Like, I don't think we have a ton of

great information out there about,

637

: 00:35:46

like, what our platform actually is.

638

: 00:35:48

Uh, we're getting better.

639

: 00:35:50

Um, but, like, I, I think it would be

very hard to grasp if you didn't get

640

: 00:35:56

a login and actually poke around and

641

: 00:35:58

Bryan Postelnek: use it.

642

: 00:35:59

I mean, uh, I didn't have a log, like,

like part of, you know, you asked me like,

643

: 00:36:05

what did I know or like about the company?

644

: 00:36:06

I didn't, I remember trying to

explain to my, I was at Angie's list,

645

: 00:36:11

telling my manager where I was going.

646

: 00:36:14

I'm like, it's, it's like

this thing for this thing.

647

: 00:36:16

I'm like, I like kind of understand

what I'm going to go work on again.

648

: 00:36:20

Super fortunate what I lucked into,

but I just remember being like.

649

: 00:36:24

Very excited about it felt very

good about it was was was doing

650

: 00:36:29

it on almost like faith alone.

651

: 00:36:31

Um, uh, but yeah, Becca, I didn't know

that much about what I was getting into.

652

: 00:36:37

Like, like, you've heard it now.

653

: 00:36:38

I don't know that I've told you

that before that I started and

654

: 00:36:41

I was like, what is this thing?

655

: 00:36:43

Um, you know, it's a Yelp for government.

656

: 00:36:45

If I even remembered,

that's what we talked about.

657

: 00:36:49

But yes, I agree.

658

: 00:36:50

Like, I think that now you could

like with the public profiles and

659

: 00:36:53

everything, like you'd have a much

better sense of more of what's going on.

660

: 00:36:56

There's enough out there.

661

: 00:36:58

You know, you have the podcast series too.

662

: 00:36:59

I don't know that, you know,

on, uh, decisions that matter.

663

: 00:37:02

There's too much talk about exactly

what procurator does or what it is, but

664

: 00:37:07

yeah, there's art, there's like, you

know, fundraising articles and stuff.

665

: 00:37:11

There's enough that you can, like,

I think today you'd be able to

666

: 00:37:14

piece enough together from a few,

especially if you look up David.

667

: 00:37:18

Like, David's out there talking

about procurator all the time, right?

668

: 00:37:22

Becca Moran: Yeah.

669

: 00:37:22

And you can kind of piece together.

670

: 00:37:24

I think what's.

671

: 00:37:26

Important to the business by what they're

posting about on media or or whatever.

672

: 00:37:32

So I think that's a good point.

673

: 00:37:35

Um, uh, yes, I guess, um, the kind of

closing out the, the story, um, of how

674

: 00:37:47

you got hired at procurated and, uh,

it would maybe be just to talk a little

675

: 00:37:52

bit about after you got hired, kind of

what your, your journey was and, um.

676

: 00:37:58

Uh, yeah, if you could share a

little bit about, um, like, what your

677

: 00:38:04

responsibilities were and maybe how some

of that changed over time during the

678

: 00:38:08

Bryan Postelnek: role.

679

: 00:38:11

Yeah.

680

: 00:38:11

So after I got hired, uh, uh, y'all

had a great onboarding process.

681

: 00:38:16

Like there was a whole Asana project

I was given to go, uh, read and

682

: 00:38:19

watch videos for stuff and try to

understand the world of procurement.

683

: 00:38:24

Um, like I watched some, I was

like, ah, I kind of get it.

684

: 00:38:27

Uh, like let's keep moving forward.

685

: 00:38:29

Like I'm going to learn

best by just doing.

686

: 00:38:32

Um, and so, you know, I remember, you

know, I had that onboarding project and

687

: 00:38:36

a few of the things that I was like, give

me things to do, like, like, let's go,

688

: 00:38:40

let's start hitting the ground running.

689

: 00:38:42

Yeah, um, and I did, I was like, I

was like, you know, no time to waste.

690

: 00:38:47

Like, let's let me get into the processes.

691

: 00:38:48

Let me start taking on things.

692

: 00:38:50

Um, you know, I just did more and more

as, as time went on, um, you know, my

693

: 00:38:56

responsibilities when I started were,

you know, I was a senior product manager

694

: 00:39:01

and mostly responsible for the day to

day stuff, you know, probably waited on

695

: 00:39:04

a few strategic things here and there.

696

: 00:39:07

But, um, as time went on, you know, as,

as, uh, after my parental leave, um, in

697

: 00:39:13

particular, because, you know, I just

disappeared for 3 months, uh, like, yeah,

698

: 00:39:19

I go, uh, after that, you know, just

started increasing, um, my role, like I

699

: 00:39:25

worked on some, some big strategic ticket

items, as you might remember, um, do

700

: 00:39:30

a lot of user interviews for strategic

initiative around our series around.

701

: 00:39:35

Um, worked on, um, you

know, some big projects.

702

: 00:39:40

I managed a few folks while I was there.

703

: 00:39:43

Um, and then, yeah, it was just

increasing responsibility and

704

: 00:39:47

increasing, um, scope and purview.

705

: 00:39:50

I think when I started, you know,

I worked on some stuff for the

706

: 00:39:53

reviews and converting, you know,

we were using mandrel to send them.

707

: 00:39:57

We moved everything to HubSpot.

708

: 00:39:59

We optimized the review form since we

had like a few different versions of it.

709

: 00:40:02

Um, and then, you know, towards

as I got later on, you know, just.

710

: 00:40:06

Yeah.

711

: 00:40:07

Working on, you know, both sides of

the marketplace and thinking about,

712

: 00:40:10

you know, what's going to move the

needle for sales, what's going to move

713

: 00:40:12

the needle for the government side.

714

: 00:40:15

Um, you know, what

internal tools do we need?

715

: 00:40:17

Kind of like taking on the whole picture,

um, as, as group product manager.

716

: 00:40:22

Yeah,

717

: 00:40:23

Becca Moran: it's awesome.

718

: 00:40:25

What advice do you have for people

in product roles that are looking

719

: 00:40:33

to advance in the same way?

720

: 00:40:35

Like, are there any things that you

feel like Experiences that you've had or

721

: 00:40:40

skills that you've built that have been

particularly helpful in your ability

722

: 00:40:45

Bryan Postelnek: to advance.

723

: 00:40:47

Yeah, I think that's for advancing.

724

: 00:40:52

Uh, I think in general,

like, an attitude towards.

725

: 00:40:58

Like, like, being like, let me help you

with that thing, like, really being, um.

726

: 00:41:04

Someone who, you know, you see

someone who needs help or someone

727

: 00:41:07

who's working on something and just

putting yourself out there to say.

728

: 00:41:11

You know, hey, can I help with that?

729

: 00:41:12

You know, can I plug in?

730

: 00:41:14

And that really helps you grow and

learn about more parts of the business

731

: 00:41:18

or other areas of the product, um,

takes things off of people's plates.

732

: 00:41:22

And, you know, that builds

goodwill with folks.

733

: 00:41:24

Um, so it's a little bit relation,

relationship building as well.

734

: 00:41:27

And that helps your career, right?

735

: 00:41:29

Like, you know, you've learned more,

you've helped out with things you've,

736

: 00:41:32

you've, um, you've got a good reputation

within the company for being someone

737

: 00:41:37

who, um, Is helpful and knows their

product stuff and, you know, a lot more

738

: 00:41:42

and are willing and are good at it.

739

: 00:41:43

Right?

740

: 00:41:44

Like, you actually follow through

and everything you volunteer for.

741

: 00:41:47

Right?

742

: 00:41:47

Um, so I, I do think that that that

go getter attitude can really help

743

: 00:41:52

you in your career and not just

being like, it's not my problem.

744

: 00:41:55

We're just staying in the lane

and not willing to contribute or

745

: 00:41:58

help with anyone else's stuff.

746

: 00:42:00

Yeah.

747

: 00:42:01

Um, I think as far as skills, uh.

748

: 00:42:04

Yeah.

749

: 00:42:05

You know, it really depends on the type

of company you're going to work for.

750

: 00:42:09

Um, you know, I'm, I'm a

pretty good generalist.

751

: 00:42:14

Um, so I've picked up, you know, lots

of things over time, whether it be

752

: 00:42:17

user interviewing or data analysis

or, you know, how to just keep the

753

: 00:42:22

pipeline good for for engineering.

754

: 00:42:25

Um, I feel like I learned a lot by doing

and so just go by doing repping the

755

: 00:42:29

muscles, figuring out where you could

improve getting feedback from folks.

756

: 00:42:34

About where you can improve, um,

and then, you know, you learn

757

: 00:42:37

about where your weaker spots are.

758

: 00:42:39

And do you want to invest more in there

and become stronger at those things?

759

: 00:42:44

Um, we're not and then, you know,

tailor your career accordingly to

760

: 00:42:47

go work for companies that value

more, you know, people who can

761

: 00:42:51

pull all their own sequel and don't

really need a data and data analyst.

762

: 00:42:55

Like, there's companies that

are looking for PMs like that.

763

: 00:42:58

Um, or, you know, I worked at appropriate.

764

: 00:43:01

We didn't have any UX researchers.

765

: 00:43:02

So it was on you to go do it.

766

: 00:43:04

And I love doing that.

767

: 00:43:05

And so I got to build

more skills doing that.

768

: 00:43:07

I brought in skills ahead.

769

: 00:43:09

Um, so you kind of follow, you

know, listen to yourself, listen

770

: 00:43:13

to what's going on around you and

what's going on in the market.

771

: 00:43:16

Um, and kind of like

follow follow the rabbit.

772

: 00:43:20

Yeah, I

773

: 00:43:21

Becca Moran: agree.

774

: 00:43:21

And I think that, you know, product

roles are such the thezewar.

775

: 00:43:25

com Interdisciplinary roles that,

you know, like you said, they're this

776

: 00:43:31

idea of staying in your swim lane.

777

: 00:43:32

Like, I'm not sure

product has a swim lane.

778

: 00:43:35

Like, you kind of got the whole

pool, you know, so, um, you know,

779

: 00:43:40

I think anywhere where you see.

780

: 00:43:43

a way that you can be helping

the business achieve its goals.

781

: 00:43:48

Like to me, I'm always like,

yeah, that's in scope for my role.

782

: 00:43:52

I think that's a, a mentality, um, that I

know has benefit me throughout my career.

783

: 00:43:57

And I think product roles lend

themselves really well to that.

784

: 00:44:02

Um, because you do naturally just have.

785

: 00:44:05

Exposure to lots of different parts

of the business and lots of different

786

: 00:44:08

functions and, um, and then to your

point, because product rules can be so

787

: 00:44:13

different organization to organization.

788

: 00:44:17

You know, if you dabble a little bit

and explore and realize you like one

789

: 00:44:22

element of what you've been doing more

than other things, then yeah, there's

790

: 00:44:27

a role out there where that, that thing

that you like is a big part of the role.

791

: 00:44:36

I feel very fortunate to have

kind of landed in a career in

792

: 00:44:39

product because I do think it just

gives you so much optionality.

793

: 00:44:42

Um, it's fun for people who are,

you know, curious and like to keep

794

: 00:44:48

learning and explore new things.

795

: 00:44:49

Um, it's a really fun and

interesting career path for sure.

796

: 00:44:57

Um, well, I think we're

kind of transitioning to

797

: 00:45:01

wrapping up our time here.

798

: 00:45:03

Is there any other, um, topic that we

didn't touch on, um, or anything you want

799

: 00:45:10

to double back to, um, to elaborate on a

little bit more before we move into our.

800

: 00:45:16

We'll wrap up rapid fire questions.

801

: 00:45:20

Bryan Postelnek: Um, you know, I will.

802

: 00:45:22

Uh, I will say, I think that, um, I

don't think it was emphasized as much.

803

: 00:45:30

In talking about getting hired, is it

really didn't, um, no, that didn't matter

804

: 00:45:35

for procurator, but I didn't need to

leverage it for procurator, uh, for my 1st

805

: 00:45:41

job for Angie's list for this next job.

806

: 00:45:44

I really believe in the

power of asking for help.

807

: 00:45:47

And for leveraging your network, um,

I think it's, it's a huge part of, of

808

: 00:45:54

getting hired, especially in this market.

809

: 00:45:56

Um, uh, it's very helpful in

your career just to ask for help.

810

: 00:46:01

And, and, you know, it, it doesn't

make you look weak to ask for help.

811

: 00:46:05

Um, ask for help in the right

way, you know, shows that you're

812

: 00:46:09

willing to learn and that, um,

you're willing to be vulnerable

813

: 00:46:13

and you're looking to get better.

814

: 00:46:15

Um, so I would emphasize, absolutely

The importance of doing all that.

815

: 00:46:20

Um, and.

816

: 00:46:22

In context of getting hired, uh, for my

first job, uh, the one based in New York,

817

: 00:46:27

um, I got, I had applied for a business

development representative position.

818

: 00:46:33

Um, and I was like, oh, it sounds, I

sound like such a dummy on this podcast.

819

: 00:46:41

I'm like, I didn't know what I

was going to do at procuring.

820

: 00:46:43

Uh, you know, but my

821

: 00:46:44

Becca Moran: first job

was going to be either.

822

: 00:46:45

I was like, oh, I did have to

make cold calls and I was like,

823

: 00:46:49

oh, I didn't understand that

from the interview process.

824

: 00:46:52

Bryan Postelnek: Yeah, I, I applied

for this job and I was like, Oh,

825

: 00:46:55

it sounds like you get to work with

a bunch of different companies.

826

: 00:46:57

How cool is that?

827

: 00:46:58

Like, you know, and I talked with

the recruiter and he's like, like,

828

: 00:47:02

by the time I got had gotten there,

like I applied in like March, I heard

829

: 00:47:05

back in like June from the recruiter.

830

: 00:47:07

And he was like, why are you

applying for a sales role?

831

: 00:47:10

You have like this engineering degree.

832

: 00:47:12

Uh, I'm like, well, yeah, now

I'd like to get into product.

833

: 00:47:15

Um, he's like, you know, we have an

intern who isn't quite working out.

834

: 00:47:20

Um, you know, let's, let's,

uh, let's see if yeah.

835

: 00:47:23

Um, I can get you in for the role and,

you know, maybe they'll, they'll host two

836

: 00:47:27

interns here and, you know, I followed

up with him, you know, I was, I asked for

837

: 00:47:32

help, you know, you know, getting after

I got an internship, I asked for his help

838

: 00:47:35

on how to become a full time employee.

839

: 00:47:38

Um, you know, I really leveraged, uh,

the power of someone willing to help

840

: 00:47:41

me in, in my early career and then

at, um, at getting a job at answers

841

: 00:47:47

list, similarly, like, you know, I had

applied, didn't hear anything back.

842

: 00:47:50

I, you know.

843

: 00:47:51

LinkedIn messaged or maybe

even email, like the VP of HR.

844

: 00:47:54

I was like, Hey, look, I think

they could fit for this role.

845

: 00:47:57

Um, you know, and then they're like,

yeah, you would be like, you know, I

846

: 00:48:01

got set with a call for a recruiter and

then, you know, the rest is history.

847

: 00:48:04

Yeah, I think there really is power

to, you know, the hustle, the asking

848

: 00:48:09

for help, the leveraging your network,

um, in, in, you know, getting your job,

849

: 00:48:14

but also in, in working in product.

850

: 00:48:17

Becca Moran: I think that's a really

great point and something that like.

851

: 00:48:20

Yeah, from seeing that as a hiring

manager, like, automatically you get

852

: 00:48:26

points for, like, showing hustle and

initiative to, um, to get an interview.

853

: 00:48:32

I think that just like, I don't know.

854

: 00:48:35

There's part of it that is just kind

of like common sense that, like,

855

: 00:48:38

as the person hiring, you're like,

oh, I'm, I'm flattered that you're

856

: 00:48:42

so interested and you're pursuing

this, like, That that means a lot.

857

: 00:48:47

And, um, you know, I, I think

you're really smart about the way

858

: 00:48:53

that you leverage your network.

859

: 00:48:54

And, um, you know, I've, I've experienced,

I think, a similar thing in a different

860

: 00:49:04

context where, like, when I came to work

at procurated, one of my concerns was

861

: 00:49:08

like, oh, my gosh, as the first person

here, like, I'm not going to have,

862

: 00:49:13

like, when I don't know what to do,

I'm not going to have someone to ask.

863

: 00:49:17

Um, I can't remember who actually

kind of gave me this perspective,

864

: 00:49:23

but they were like, you, you

have a whole network of people.

865

: 00:49:27

You don't just have your

immediate company to turn to.

866

: 00:49:31

And, you know, looking back on

the last few years, I think of

867

: 00:49:35

all of the random people that I've

reached out to some of which, like.

868

: 00:49:41

I've reached out to people like, Oh

yeah, that person like sold me software

869

: 00:49:45

like days ago at, but like, they're

connected to someone I want to talk.

870

: 00:49:49

Like, all you have to do is ask.

871

: 00:49:52

And I consistently surprised by how

generous people are with their time.

872

: 00:49:58

And you know, part of it is

like earning that, right?

873

: 00:50:00

Like I'm not running around being a jerk

to people and then you help me, right?

874

: 00:50:04

Like be nice, be a good person.

875

: 00:50:07

Um, but yeah, like that stuff.

876

: 00:50:10

Does go a long way and are even very busy

senior people I have found are oftentimes

877

: 00:50:19

willing to help if you just ask.

878

: 00:50:20

So, um, I think that's really

great advice and, um, definitely

879

: 00:50:27

appreciate your perspective on that.

880

: 00:50:29

And of course, I love to see the hustle.

881

: 00:50:31

So, yeah.

882

: 00:50:32

Um, all right.

883

: 00:50:33

Are you ready for the rapid

884

: 00:50:35

Bryan Postelnek: fire?

885

: 00:50:36

I am ready for the rapid fire.

886

: 00:50:38

I would like to be fired at rapidly now.

887

: 00:50:41

Becca Moran: Okay.

888

: 00:50:43

I'm ready.

889

: 00:50:43

That just made me nervous for some reason.

890

: 00:50:45

Well, now I

891

: 00:50:46

Bryan Postelnek: expect it to be very...

892

: 00:50:46

How fast do I have to talk?

893

: 00:50:47

Yeah, I expect it to be very rapid.

894

: 00:50:49

Okay.

895

: 00:50:50

Becca Moran: Um, first question.

896

: 00:50:53

Could a friend or close family member

accurately describe what you do?

897

: 00:50:58

Bryan Postelnek: Uh, today, uh,

yes, because I'm interviewing.

898

: 00:51:03

And I'm unemployed, but no, you,

899

: 00:51:05

Becca Moran: for curated . Brian

said, Hey, Brian's mom.

900

: 00:51:08

What

901

: 00:51:09

Bryan Postelnek: does Brian do?

902

: 00:51:09

No, uh, no.

903

: 00:51:10

Uh, you know, a lot of the time, no.

904

: 00:51:15

You know, I, a lot of the time you,

I still get family members misp,

905

: 00:51:19

miss saying I'm a project manager.

906

: 00:51:21

Yes.

907

: 00:51:22

And I'm like, oh, I'm

not a project manager.

908

: 00:51:24

I, you know, I'm a product manager and

I get, I'm sure there's many product

909

: 00:51:29

people who also get a little bit

grumpy about, uh, the J and D swap.

910

: 00:51:34

Um, but, uh, but no, I've been trying

to describe it for years to, you know,

911

: 00:51:39

like, like my wife or to my parents and,

you know, they get like the gist and it's

912

: 00:51:44

like, you have to remember what I do.

913

: 00:51:46

I should really simplify

it to like, I just.

914

: 00:51:49

I just work with people , like I

get things done every now and then.

915

: 00:51:53

I'm a people person.

916

: 00:51:54

, I'm a people person.

917

: 00:51:55

That's, yeah.

918

: 00:51:56

Most of my job is just talking.

919

: 00:51:57

Uh, you know, it's,

920

: 00:51:59

Becca Moran: it's like there's

a challenge of explaining what

921

: 00:52:00

the company does, which I find is

like, oh yeah, fertile number one.

922

: 00:52:03

And then when people are like, but

like, what do you personally do?

923

: 00:52:07

I'm like, it's

924

: 00:52:09

Bryan Postelnek: amorphous.

925

: 00:52:10

. Yeah.

926

: 00:52:11

Yeah.

927

: 00:52:11

Like, I'm, I'm both everything

and nothing at the same time.

928

: 00:52:14

, like little omni fun.

929

: 00:52:17

Yeah.

930

: 00:52:17

I'm a little, uh, omnipotent.

931

: 00:52:20

Yeah, just all that one.

932

: 00:52:21

The all knowing or or is everywhere.

933

: 00:52:24

I think that one's omnipotent.

934

: 00:52:26

I think means I'm everywhere.

935

: 00:52:28

This is omnipresent omniscient.

936

: 00:52:30

Oh, gosh.

937

: 00:52:31

Oh, man.

938

: 00:52:31

There's three versions.

939

: 00:52:35

Someone's got to listen to this.

940

: 00:52:36

I hope that I work with someone who ends

up listening to this and they're like,

941

: 00:52:40

wow, he did a great job on that podcast.

942

: 00:52:44

Yeah.

943

: 00:52:44

We, we, we thought, we thought

we were getting one thing and he

944

: 00:52:47

didn't know his vocabulary of words.

945

: 00:52:53

Becca Moran: Speaking of

words, that's a good segue.

946

: 00:52:54

What is one like product or tech word

or phrase, you know, business lingo

947

: 00:53:01

thing that you wish you never had to

948

: 00:53:03

Bryan Postelnek: hear again?

949

: 00:53:05

Um, uh, you know, it has something

probably something to do with like,

950

: 00:53:12

uh, can I get an estimate on that?

951

: 00:53:15

Or like, can we do it faster?

952

: 00:53:19

Yeah.

953

: 00:53:19

When will it be done?

954

: 00:53:20

Those types of things.

955

: 00:53:21

I know I'll hear it again.

956

: 00:53:22

Um, but you know, it can be a little

bit, uh, uh, nails on the chalkboard

957

: 00:53:27

sometimes, uh, depending on when you're

being asked, I'm sure I'm guilty of it

958

: 00:53:32

too, like, but I try to ask in probably

other masked ways where it's like, you

959

: 00:53:37

know, what if we did this thing or what,

if we did that thing, how does it affect?

960

: 00:53:40

That I think maybe some of the

bluntness of, like, just wanting an

961

: 00:53:44

estimate, uh, is sometimes a little,

962

: 00:53:48

Becca Moran: uh, when you realize

how preposterous that question

963

: 00:53:52

actually is, like, oftentimes

you get asked that when, like.

964

: 00:53:57

The scope of what you're trying to

accomplish is completely undefined

965

: 00:54:01

and you're like, I don't know

how long it'll take to build.

966

: 00:54:04

I don't even know what we're talking

967

: 00:54:06

Bryan Postelnek: about.

968

: 00:54:06

Right.

969

: 00:54:06

Like, yeah, I can give you

something, but it's going to be

970

: 00:54:09

wrong by some order of magnitude.

971

: 00:54:11

Yeah.

972

: 00:54:11

Uh, so I become a lot

973

: 00:54:13

Becca Moran: more comfortable with

that for what it's worth over the

974

: 00:54:15

years of just being like, yes, here's.

975

: 00:54:18

Here's a date or a number and like,

with a very flimsy level of commitment

976

: 00:54:23

Bryan Postelnek: to that, as

long as everyone knows it's,

977

: 00:54:26

it's a flimsy commitment.

978

: 00:54:27

Like, like, I've worked in places where,

like, when they ask it, they mean it.

979

: 00:54:31

Yeah, you know, you better be right about

this because we're making plans around it.

980

: 00:54:36

Yeah, and I'm like, uh, like, we

shouldn't like, we're going to be wrong.

981

: 00:54:39

Like, please don't, please don't

982

: 00:54:41

Becca Moran: plan the rest of everything.

983

: 00:54:42

No matter how much time and effort we put

into estimating, we will still be wrong.

984

: 00:54:45

So just know

985

: 00:54:46

Bryan Postelnek: that.

986

: 00:54:46

Let's just get, if it's something

we definitely feel conviction around

987

: 00:54:49

doing, let's just start doing it.

988

: 00:54:51

Like, let's just know, let's know at least

it's going to take a year versus a month,

989

: 00:54:54

like, like on that scale, but like, don't

ask me for the drop dead date today.

990

: 00:54:58

Like we haven't even started.

991

: 00:55:02

Becca Moran: Um, I'll ask this in

a general way, uh, about kind of

992

: 00:55:07

like over the course of your career,

how often would you say that you

993

: 00:55:11

would actually talk to customers

or users in your role in product?

994

: 00:55:17

Bryan Postelnek: Yeah.

995

: 00:55:18

Uh, I would say, you know,

uh, on the order of monthly,

996

: 00:55:26

um, I wish it was more often.

997

: 00:55:30

Becca Moran: I thought you pushed us

as an organization to be more diligent

998

: 00:55:34

about having these conversations.

999

: 00:55:36

Yeah, it was like, it

: 1000

00:55:37,020 --> 00:55:38,090

Bryan Postelnek: came in spurts.

: 1001

00:55:38,470 --> 00:55:41,380

Um, a lot of the time we're like,

you know, I had, I had a question.

: 1002

00:55:41,380 --> 00:55:42,870

I was like, let me go talk to folks.

: 1003

00:55:43,060 --> 00:55:46,330

I, I really wanted to set up more of a

continuous process where, like, you know,

: 1004

00:55:46,340 --> 00:55:48,510

had people talk to on a weekly basis.

: 1005

00:55:48,950 --> 00:55:50,300

It's, it's.

: 1006

00:55:50,950 --> 00:55:55,970

Yeah, oh, yeah, it's, it's a lot of

work, um, you know, between like,

: 1007

00:55:55,970 --> 00:55:58,740

finding the people you want to talk

to, you know, what do you want to

: 1008

00:55:58,740 --> 00:56:00,320

talk to them about consistently?

: 1009

00:56:00,695 --> 00:56:03,495

Documenting synthesizing, like,

you know, there's a reason that

: 1010

00:56:03,935 --> 00:56:07,435

you have UX researchers, uh,

you know, do, do that work.

: 1011

00:56:07,435 --> 00:56:11,265

So it's easier to like, do like a campaign

and be like, here's like the 1 thing I'm

: 1012

00:56:11,265 --> 00:56:13,645

going to go learn about at a given time.

: 1013

00:56:14,395 --> 00:56:18,675

And bunched up all together, um,

but you can, you can do a lot of

: 1014

00:56:18,675 --> 00:56:21,105

them, um, in, in good succession.

: 1015

00:56:21,135 --> 00:56:24,645

I feel like I did like 30 within

like a quarter or something

: 1016

00:56:24,665 --> 00:56:25,045

at one point procurated.

: 1017

00:56:26,345 --> 00:56:30,075

Um, you know, it's just, it's

about really focusing on it.

: 1018

00:56:30,355 --> 00:56:35,135

So, yeah, I, I think an ideal state,

it'd be like one to two times a week.

: 1019

00:56:35,265 --> 00:56:37,725

I'd say that'd be like

super, super healthy.

: 1020

00:56:37,725 --> 00:56:39,085

Like you're in touch with your customers.

: 1021

00:56:39,085 --> 00:56:40,185

You have a good pulse on it.

: 1022

00:56:40,795 --> 00:56:45,085

Um, uh, but I think like if I were

to average it out, like, you know,

: 1023

00:56:45,595 --> 00:56:49,645

I probably Probably once a month

if you had to like spread it out.

: 1024

00:56:50,300 --> 00:56:50,610

Becca Moran: Yeah.

: 1025

00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:58,790

Um, what is a book or person

who has been, uh, that's been

: 1026

00:56:58,790 --> 00:57:00,420

most influential in your career?

: 1027

00:57:02,420 --> 00:57:06,000

Bryan Postelnek: Yeah, I think

the, yeah, I was, I was looking to

: 1028

00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:07,550

see if I have Marty's book around.

: 1029

00:57:07,660 --> 00:57:08,760

I think it's in the ottoman

: 1030

00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:09,110

Becca Moran: over there.

: 1031

00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,480

We referenced Marty on a first name basis.

: 1032

00:57:11,970 --> 00:57:12,290

Yeah.

: 1033

00:57:12,970 --> 00:57:13,250

Bryan Postelnek: Yeah.

: 1034

00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:13,610

I wrote.

: 1035

00:57:14,150 --> 00:57:15,830

I've seen him in enough videos.

: 1036

00:57:15,830 --> 00:57:16,640

I've read his newsletter.

: 1037

00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:17,440

I can call him Marty.

: 1038

00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:18,130

I've emailed him.

: 1039

00:57:18,130 --> 00:57:18,366

Didn't

: 1040

00:57:18,366 --> 00:57:20,160

Becca Moran: you say, didn't you

really reach out to him with a

: 1041

00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:20,860

Bryan Postelnek: question at one point?

: 1042

00:57:21,050 --> 00:57:21,470

I did.

: 1043

00:57:21,490 --> 00:57:21,650

Yeah.

: 1044

00:57:21,650 --> 00:57:23,990

I don't remember the question is

anymore, but he writes you back.

: 1045

00:57:24,030 --> 00:57:24,410

Like, yeah,

: 1046

00:57:24,670 --> 00:57:26,740

Becca Moran: this, this just proves

the point I made here earlier.

: 1047

00:57:27,140 --> 00:57:27,450

Bryan Postelnek: Just yeah.

: 1048

00:57:27,450 --> 00:57:29,370

Like there was, there

was a, there was a guy.

: 1049

00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:30,670

Um, I don't remember his name.

: 1050

00:57:30,670 --> 00:57:32,700

I know his newsletter is ABC.

: 1051

00:57:33,490 --> 00:57:34,010

Oh yeah.

: 1052

00:57:34,070 --> 00:57:34,610

Fred Wilson.

: 1053

00:57:34,610 --> 00:57:35,210

You Yeah.

: 1054

00:57:35,210 --> 00:57:35,690

Fred Wilson.

: 1055

00:57:35,690 --> 00:57:36,050

I emailed.

: 1056

00:57:36,110 --> 00:57:39,230

He, he, he wrote about like a

Kickstarter campaign once, so I

: 1057

00:57:39,230 --> 00:57:40,460

emailed him about the headphones.

: 1058

00:57:40,460 --> 00:57:43,510

He was saying We should like

totally get on Kickstarter.

: 1059

00:57:43,750 --> 00:57:44,470

And he wrote me back.

: 1060

00:57:44,530 --> 00:57:45,550

I was like, yeah, yeah.

: 1061

00:57:45,670 --> 00:57:48,040

People, people write stuff

like to write you back.

: 1062

00:57:48,430 --> 00:57:48,700

Yeah.

: 1063

00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,710

Um, so, uh, I'm gonna say

: 1064

00:57:51,740 --> 00:57:52,190

Becca Moran: Marty.

: 1065

00:57:52,250 --> 00:57:52,690

Marty Ka.

: 1066

00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:53,060

It's Kagan,

: 1067

00:57:53,450 --> 00:57:53,570

Bryan Postelnek: right?

: 1068

00:57:53,575 --> 00:57:54,290

Marty Kagan, yeah.

: 1069

00:57:54,295 --> 00:57:54,530

Yeah.

: 1070

00:57:54,530 --> 00:57:55,100

Marty Kagan.

: 1071

00:57:55,340 --> 00:57:56,120

The inspired,

: 1072

00:57:56,570 --> 00:57:56,930

Becca Moran: inspired, inspired.

: 1073

00:57:57,140 --> 00:57:57,560

And what was the

: 1074

00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:58,130

Bryan Postelnek: second one?

: 1075

00:57:58,130 --> 00:57:58,640

Empowered.

: 1076

00:57:58,645 --> 00:57:59,300

Uh, empowered.

: 1077

00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,030

And then I think he also

co-wrote the most recent one.

: 1078

00:58:02,855 --> 00:58:07,955

Um, I don't remember what it's called

anymore, but it's also like a one, one

: 1079

00:58:07,965 --> 00:58:11,075

word, impactful word, uh, type of thing.

: 1080

00:58:11,855 --> 00:58:16,845

Uh, uh, but yeah, I would say that

one was really impactful because that

: 1081

00:58:16,845 --> 00:58:20,155

really opened up my eyes to, you know,

what product could be, what are some

: 1082

00:58:20,155 --> 00:58:21,645

different ways to think about product.

: 1083

00:58:21,655 --> 00:58:23,865

And it's in a nice, like it's in

one book, one book or two books.

: 1084

00:58:23,865 --> 00:58:24,035

Yeah.

: 1085

00:58:25,875 --> 00:58:26,575

Very readable.

: 1086

00:58:26,605 --> 00:58:27,025

Very.

: 1087

00:58:27,315 --> 00:58:30,475

What's also interesting is like

when you read a book like that.

: 1088

00:58:30,925 --> 00:58:34,875

Um, like I read it at my first job

and I was like, I don't get it and

: 1089

00:58:36,445 --> 00:58:37,735

like, in like the middle of that job.

: 1090

00:58:37,755 --> 00:58:39,015

And then you read it again.

: 1091

00:58:39,215 --> 00:58:41,835

It was either at the end of my time there

or at the beginning of Angie's list.

: 1092

00:58:42,255 --> 00:58:45,545

I'm like, okay, like this

clicks in a different way now.

: 1093

00:58:45,955 --> 00:58:49,835

Um, so I'd say there's some power

to revisiting some of these concepts

: 1094

00:58:49,835 --> 00:58:52,195

and these books at different

stages in your career and being

: 1095

00:58:52,195 --> 00:58:54,725

like, oh, I know this pretty well,

but I forgot about that thing.

: 1096

00:58:54,735 --> 00:58:56,585

Or that's a really

like, he has great ways.

: 1097

00:58:57,345 --> 00:59:01,735

I've referenced a few times, um,

how to know that people are like

: 1098

00:59:01,735 --> 00:59:03,335

invested in your product or idea.

: 1099

00:59:03,335 --> 00:59:07,085

And he has some great tips about like, you

know, if people are willing to give time,

: 1100

00:59:07,085 --> 00:59:09,695

if people are willing to give money, if

they're willing to give, like use their

: 1101

00:59:09,695 --> 00:59:11,865

social clout, you know, to reference it.

: 1102

00:59:11,865 --> 00:59:15,305

Like those are all like good signs

as indicators, uh, people will

: 1103

00:59:15,315 --> 00:59:18,025

like what people are actually

invested in what you're building.

: 1104

00:59:18,515 --> 00:59:21,125

And so it's like, those are great things

to like, you know, go reference again

: 1105

00:59:21,125 --> 00:59:23,435

in a book and like reinforces learning.

: 1106

00:59:24,370 --> 00:59:25,690

Yeah, love that.

: 1107

00:59:26,090 --> 00:59:26,680

Becca Moran: Love Marty.

: 1108

00:59:27,740 --> 00:59:28,130

All right.

: 1109

00:59:28,150 --> 00:59:29,400

Last question for you.

: 1110

00:59:29,900 --> 00:59:35,490

So you, you are on this career path

in product, but, uh, when you were

: 1111

00:59:35,490 --> 00:59:36,950

a kid, what was your dream job?

: 1112

00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:37,820

What did you think you

: 1113

00:59:37,820 --> 00:59:38,330

Bryan Postelnek: would be doing?

: 1114

00:59:39,630 --> 00:59:43,680

Uh, gosh, there's so many things

I thought I'd be doing that.

: 1115

00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:48,250

Like, I've, I've done so many different

things in my life at this point, like,

: 1116

00:59:48,260 --> 00:59:54,970

uh, but I, in terms of my career,

um, you know, I don't, I don't know

: 1117

00:59:54,970 --> 00:59:56,550

that I ever, like, had like, uh.

: 1118

00:59:57,225 --> 01:00:03,735

Uh, I, the only one I distinctly

remember, uh, probably because I was told.

: 1119

01:00:04,115 --> 01:00:06,715

I wouldn't be good at it because

: 1120

01:00:06,715 --> 01:00:09,085

Becca Moran: it gave me this

nice little chip on your

: 1121

01:00:09,085 --> 01:00:09,515

Bryan Postelnek: shoulder.

: 1122

01:00:09,615 --> 01:00:10,025

Yeah.

: 1123

01:00:10,175 --> 01:00:10,515

Right.

: 1124

01:00:10,515 --> 01:00:12,085

Like, like, you know, leading.

: 1125

01:00:12,195 --> 01:00:15,455

So, like, you know, as, as a kid, so not

a teenager when I was like, okay, I'm

: 1126

01:00:15,455 --> 01:00:21,125

going to go be an engineer, um, as a kid,

um, at some point I wanted to be a rabbi.

: 1127

01:00:21,740 --> 01:00:27,200

Uh, yeah, yes, I believe I've

told this before I procurated, uh,

: 1128

01:00:27,610 --> 01:00:32,400

and, uh, the rabbi at the, at the

synagogue, uh, deterred me from it

: 1129

01:00:32,470 --> 01:00:37,000

from some reason or another, um, which

every now and then you still hear

: 1130

01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,669

about, uh, spoken in my household.

: 1131

01:00:40,980 --> 01:00:44,990

About like, oh, if that rabbi hadn't

said that to you, maybe you'd be a rabbi.

: 1132

01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:45,020

If

: 1133

01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:50,930

Becca Moran: you, like, knowing what

you know about yourself now, do you

: 1134

01:00:50,940 --> 01:00:52,390

think you would be a good rabbi?

: 1135

01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:55,490

Bryan Postelnek: Um, I

think I'd be a decent rabbi.

: 1136

01:00:55,700 --> 01:00:56,920

I have no idea what makes

: 1137

01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:57,140

Becca Moran: a good

: 1138

01:00:58,570 --> 01:00:58,610

Bryan Postelnek: rabbi.

: 1139

01:00:58,620 --> 01:00:58,930

Right.

: 1140

01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:05,370

Like, uh, I think that, well, knowing

what I know myself about now, um, you

: 1141

01:01:05,370 --> 01:01:09,870

know, my, my, my, uh, religiosity.

: 1142

01:01:09,870 --> 01:01:09,884

Yeah.

: 1143

01:01:10,415 --> 01:01:12,935

I really isn't there, um, but he's

: 1144

01:01:13,085 --> 01:01:13,775

Becca Moran: probably a pretty

: 1145

01:01:13,785 --> 01:01:17,915

Bryan Postelnek: core tenant of it,

but I feel like the, the interpersonal

: 1146

01:01:17,915 --> 01:01:22,085

relationship angle of being, um, a

rabbi, like, that's, that's where,

: 1147

01:01:22,085 --> 01:01:24,705

like, I think, uh, I might succeed.

: 1148

01:01:25,005 --> 01:01:27,655

I'm sure there's some, some

stuff I could do on the margins

: 1149

01:01:27,695 --> 01:01:30,919

to, uh, to, to, you know.

: 1150

01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:34,660

Know how to talk to people better

or or listen in better ways.

: 1151

01:01:34,700 --> 01:01:35,820

There's a good book on that.

: 1152

01:01:35,900 --> 01:01:37,900

Um, we read it.

: 1153

01:01:37,910 --> 01:01:39,140

There's a book club at Angie's.

: 1154

01:01:39,140 --> 01:01:39,860

I suppose the name of the book.

: 1155

01:01:40,460 --> 01:01:42,120

I'm going to remember it at some point.

: 1156

01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:45,700

Um, it has to do with, like,

listening to both sides of the story.

: 1157

01:01:45,700 --> 01:01:47,210

It's probably also on a bookshelf.

: 1158

01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:49,210

Yeah, I'm putting the show notes.

: 1159

01:01:49,210 --> 01:01:53,200

Brian remembered the book that he read

once that he vaguely alluded to at

: 1160

01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:57,480

the end of the podcast about talking

to people about talking to people.

: 1161

01:01:57,900 --> 01:01:58,490

Uh, yeah.

: 1162

01:01:58,670 --> 01:02:00,610

But it's, it's a, it's a great book.

: 1163

01:02:00,610 --> 01:02:02,840

You just, you just learn

about listening to both sides.

: 1164

01:02:03,740 --> 01:02:03,920

An

: 1165

01:02:03,930 --> 01:02:08,910

Becca Moran: alternate universe where

you had become a rabbi and then made

: 1166

01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:14,890

your pivot into product and then like

created some sort of software for rabbis.

: 1167

01:02:15,870 --> 01:02:16,450

Bryan Postelnek: I'm sure they can.

: 1168

01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:18,110

I don't know what that

software would do, but.

: 1169

01:02:18,525 --> 01:02:23,395

Honestly, uh, software for rabbis,

uh, would either be, uh, I think they

: 1170

01:02:23,395 --> 01:02:27,465

know enough about like the, the, um,

like the Torah and everything, so

: 1171

01:02:27,465 --> 01:02:31,025

they probably don't need that, but

they might need like a CRM for like

: 1172

01:02:31,025 --> 01:02:35,315

managing, you know, relationships with

different folks in their communities.

: 1173

01:02:35,465 --> 01:02:35,875

Yeah.

: 1174

01:02:35,925 --> 01:02:40,555

Um, because you, you do with a

lot of personality, just like

: 1175

01:02:40,985 --> 01:02:44,285

just generate, generate something

for me to say about this passage

: 1176

01:02:44,485 --> 01:02:47,185

while conducting, um, services.

: 1177

01:02:47,460 --> 01:02:48,260

That would be a good one.

: 1178

01:02:48,490 --> 01:02:50,210

Um, but I feel like that's just your, uh,

: 1179

01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:51,190

Becca Moran: your favorite rabbi.

: 1180

01:02:51,690 --> 01:02:52,130

Bryan Postelnek: Yeah.

: 1181

01:02:52,530 --> 01:02:52,820

Yeah.

: 1182

01:02:52,910 --> 01:02:53,210

Yeah.

: 1183

01:02:53,210 --> 01:02:54,680

Anyone, anyone use that idea?

: 1184

01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:55,650

I'm not going to pursue it.

: 1185

01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:57,760

Feel free to make software for rabbis.

: 1186

01:02:58,850 --> 01:02:59,480

Becca Moran: Incredible.

: 1187

01:03:00,180 --> 01:03:03,310

Um, well, this has been so fun.

: 1188

01:03:03,410 --> 01:03:08,000

It has been a pleasure talking

to you as always, and, uh,

: 1189

01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:09,850

recounting the story with you.

: 1190

01:03:09,890 --> 01:03:10,880

And I hope that.

: 1191

01:03:11,155 --> 01:03:15,995

Other people find it remotely

as entertaining as I do, uh, and

: 1192

01:03:15,995 --> 01:03:19,385

learn something from it and find

some, some good insights here.

: 1193

01:03:19,385 --> 01:03:20,695

So thank you again.

: 1194

01:03:20,745 --> 01:03:21,195

Appreciate.

: 1195

01:03:21,605 --> 01:03:24,875

You coming on the show

and giving us your time.

: 1196

01:03:25,655 --> 01:03:26,175

Bryan Postelnek: Well, thank you.

: 1197

01:03:26,185 --> 01:03:27,165

Thank you for having me back up.

: 1198

01:03:27,235 --> 01:03:28,625

Always like same thing.

: 1199

01:03:28,765 --> 01:03:29,835

Love chatting with you today.

: 1200

01:03:30,095 --> 01:03:35,405

Hope people find this, um, you know, while

you're driving or working out or whatever

: 1201

01:03:35,425 --> 01:03:39,585

you might be doing while you listen to us,

um, you know, let us know what you thought

: 1202

01:04:00,345 --> 01:04:02,105

Tim Winkler: calling all

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: 1203

01:04:02,105 --> 01:04:06,195

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: 1204

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: 1205

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: 1207

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: 1210

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: 1211

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