Personal stories of inspiration from professional composers, songwriters and musicians.
In this episode, Gareth chats with trombone player Carol Jarvis about playing with the likes of Rita Ora and Seal, releasing new music and her extraordinary journey through Hodgkin's Lymphoma.
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Host: Gareth Davies
Produced by The Sound Boutique
Welcome to the music room.
At this time in the music room.
Carol: So that's what I used to do.
I used to sight reading my lessons.
And I think I didn't realize that
actually stood me really good stead
for, being a session musician.
I mean, turning up to sessions where
you don't get a chance to see any of the
music before and you're there for sort
of six hours, sight reading everything.
Gareth: Hello, and welcome to The
Music Room, the show where composers,
songwriters, and musicians share
their stories of how they got
started, as well as leaving useful
items and advice for others to find.
Let's see what items we've had recently.
A Roland MC 500 Mark II Micro
Composer on the track by Fred Carlin.
That's a book.
Uh, A Casio keyboard, a little black
book of people, but who's is who's?
I hear you cry.
There's an easy way to find out.
Just head to musicroompodcast.
uk and you can listen to all previous
episodes of the Music Room for free on me.
That's 12, 044 minutes of content
for the delight of your ears.
Yes, I added it up.
And you are welcome.
Today's guest has an
extraordinary tale to tell.
So extraordinary, once trombone
player Carol Jarvis started talking
about what she's been through,
I had to hear the whole story.
And I'd like to issue
a trigger warning here.
Carol's ordeal was life threatening
and involved a close call, so if you'd
hear about that, perhaps skip the chat.
Carol Jarvis, like I said, is
a trombone player on the move.
She has new music out, she's just
off a series of dates with Rita Ora,
and has played with loads of big
talent like Seal and Amy Winehouse.
She's also an educator, a podcaster.
I won't get into too much now but
stick around, it's a brilliant
chat and I'm really grateful
to Carol for sharing her story.
But before that, music stories.
BBC Radio 2 has announced an exciting
new commission for autumn, Doctor
Who at 60, a musical celebration, a
special concert to be held on Thursday
the 28th of September 2023 at 2.
30pm at BBC Hoddernot Hall in
Wales Millennium Centre, Cardiff.
The two and a half hour concert will
feature the BBC National Orchestra
of Wales and the BBC Singers.
directed by Alistair King as they
celebrate the glorious musical
sounds of Doctor Who in a special
60th anniversary celebration.
The musical pieces include I am the
Doctor, Abigail's Song, This is Gallifrey,
The Impossible Girl, I am a Good Man, The
Shepherd's Boy and the timeless Doctor Who
theme as brilliantly imagined by composers
Murray Gold and Music Room Guest.
In other news, the Tower Series 2 is
now on ITVX featuring marvellous music of
previous Music Room guest, Nanita Desai.
A pleasure to work with mammoth
screen and exec slash writer Patrick
Harbinson, who execs one of my all
time favourite shows, Homeland.
And that's all for Music Stories.
Carol Jarvis is an in demand session
musician in the UK, a multi award winning
trombonist, keyboard player, arranger,
orchestrator, and voiceover artist.
She has toured, recorded, and worked
extensively with the likes of Sting,
Queen, Seal, Rod Stewart, Amy Winehouse,
Bon Jovi, Ellie Goulding, and more,
and appeared on many renowned TV
Harry Connick Jr., Michael Bublé,
Taylor Swift, and so many more.
She's a professor of music at Trinity
Laban Conservatoire of Music in London,
and the Royal Northern College of Music
in Manchester, and is currently president
of the International Trombone Festival.
I mean, how?
Let's get in there so I can ask.
Carol Jarvis, welcome to the music room.
Carol: Thank you very much.
What a lovely room is.
Gareth: Oh, as is yours, as is yours.
How are you today?
You just did a gig over
the weekend with Rita Ora.
Carol: Yeah, we did.
Um, we're in Sweden and then Switzerland.
and yeah, we've got quite
a few more dates to come.
I'm exhausted to be honest.
Gareth: Ah, well, thank you
ever so much for making time.
It's very nice of and I'm
sure listeners will get a lot
out of our discussion today.
So, I mean, you do that a lot.
You just up sticks and off you
go and go to gigs here and there.
I'm just kind of, I'm just
looking at the diary the next sort
of, I think two, three months.
And I think I've got at
least one flight a week.
Um, and sometimes four.
So it's kind of like,
Gareth: No way.
in your intro I mentioned your
session playing, your touring,
your recording, your voiceovers.
You're a professor, you're a president
of the International Trombone Festival.
I mean, you must live your life
at a thousand miles an hour.
I think, I think I kind of always
have done, but I think that kind of
stems from when I went through cancer.
So I actually, um, I'm sure it
might come into the, into the
conversation, but, I think when I was
told I had a limited amount of time
left, I kind of sped everything up.
Gareth: Oh, wow.
And you haven't stopped.
Trying to just live my life as fast
as I could and as full as I could.
Um, but I think during lockdown and
everything, everything slowed down and
I really, really welcomed that break.
It was really nice.
But I was extremely busy,
but I was at home at least.
But I think, yeah, it's, it's funny the
way you sort of freelance freelancing goes
because you sort of, you say, you say yes
to the first thing that comes in because
you haven't got too much in the diary, but
then, well, then the thing else comes in.
Usually for me, it just clashes.
So you have to say no.
Um, but when it does fit, you're
like, well, yeah, I've got to do it.
And then something else great
comes in and it just fits in.
You're like, well, yeah,
I've got to do that as well.
So then you're just like, my
God, when is my next time off?
Gareth: It's absolutely the
freelancing way, isn't it?
Say yes, and then figure it out.
Carol: we used to have those
paper diaries and I just sort
of say, yes, say, yes, say yes.
And then look, turn over the page
once I've put the phone down again.
Oh, we're going to make that work.
Gareth: So two things, uh, we can
discuss in whichever order you
like, you have new music out, you
know, in between touring and stuff.
Uh, and you have a podcast on
the go exclusively for Spotify.
So what should we start with?
I mean, there's a lot there, isn't it?
Carol: Yeah, they both sort of started
at the same time, but, um, well, they
were decided to launch at the same time.
But the music sort of all stemmed
from, um, lockdown, just a lockdown
project that is finally coming out
years later, because I hit 10 years in
remission, um, from Hodgkin's lymphoma.
And I thought, well, I wasn't
meant to hit day at all.
So let's write music.
Make a celebration outta this
because you, you never really
get like, right, you're clear.
You're never like,
that's it, it's all over.
You never get told that.
So you're just in remission.
So that, and that kind of feels,
you're still connected to it in a way.
Um, even, even though it remission
is, there's no cancer at all.
But I still feel like the word remission
kind of still connects you to that story.
So I'm not like through remission or
anything, do you know what I mean?
So it's kind of
like, 10 years in remission, I thought,
right, well, that's, a milestone to mark.
So I thought, right, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna release some music.
Um, most trombone players, um, they
tend to write either, well, release
either classical or jazz albums.
And I thought I want to
do something different.
Gareth: Boy, it's, it's
so different, isn't it?
I mean, I'd never, I mean,
it's joyous for a star.
I mean, when you're talking about
celebrating milestones, it really is.
You can't help but, smile
when you hear that music is
Carol: I'm glad.
Gareth: and yeah, like you say,
very different because the lead
instrument is a trombone for
essentially a dance track or dance
Carol: I know.
And, and, and, and I thought, well, it
needs to be, it needs to be celebratory
and needs to be at least uplift people.
They need to make you smile.
Um, and, uh, just been working with
my producer, George Holliday, and
just, um, I think we've nailed it.
I'm just, I've just really,
really been enjoying it.
Really, really been enjoying it.
I've got remixes in the pipeline.
I've got another EP Um, so I, I mean,
it's funny how you write so many tracks
and then sort of narrow down which
ones you want to actually release.
So there's, there's loads sort of
sitting in the background, but yeah, the
process has been absolutely brilliant.
I love it.
And of course, You talk about the
Hodgkin's lymphoma, which I'm
sure we're going to touch on that
when we go back in time as well.
let's talk about your podcast.
How did that come about?
what is it?
Tell us about it.
Carol: So yeah, the team I'm sort of
working with, with sort of releasing
the album because I've played on so many
albums and stuff as a session musician,
but never really done the releasing.
And, uh, and since I had a CD come
out sort of 12 years ago, that
was recorded when I had cancer.
And it was just, um, to
raise money for charity.
I didn't have really any
involvement in the, I've just
turned up as a session musician.
So this is the first time I've actually
been involved in how you release things.
And since that first album,
everything's changed, there's no
streaming and everything involved.
Carol: I literally didn't
know anything about it.
So the team I've been working with,
we had the first meeting, they
said, right, tell us all about you.
And I said, hang on a minute,
you've got this crazy story
to tell about your health.
You work as a session musician,
you're a voiceover artist, you've done
all sorts of charity work as well.
Why don't you tie all of these avenues
together and release a podcast?
I was like, Oh my God, that
completely makes sense.
Cause I've done quite a bit of
TV presenting, radio presenting
and stuff in the past as well.
So I just thought, well, yeah,
that does totally make sense.
But I did think, hang on a minute.
I haven't got any time for
this, but now it's a great idea.
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
So I've been, I've been
literally playing catch up.
from the moment we said yes, so one
episode and then launch the podcast.
So then I've been trying
to record everything.
And yeah, just try and keep up with
two weeks, in between each episode.
Um, but really the whole
first season is recorded.
So, um, Yeah, I'm going to learn
my lesson by season two and make
sure I've pre recorded all of it.
Um, just wanted to release it all
at the same time as the album.
So, and it's been amazing.
So the first episode, I tell my
story, from start to finish, um,
which is, it's, it's a lengthy story.
So it takes about an hour just
to tell the complete story.
And, um, I've been flying all over the
world, just, um, Well, especially in the
last six or eight months or something,
telling this story to medical companies
all over the world, from Mexico to Croatia
to Romania, just in the last few months.
Because clinical trials, I went
through three of them and most medical
professionals who work in the clinical
trial, supply or, uh, uh, marketing
or whatever departments it is.
They don't tend to meet anyone that has
actually been through a clinical trial.
It's just all the data and the statistics
and the, it's just numbers on a screen.
And there's no names to that
because it's got to be confidential.
And so I'm going to these companies
and telling my story, to try and
keep them doing what they're doing.
Um, which is, which is amazing.
It's really rewarding to me as well,
because it feels like I'm finally saying
thank you to the people that have.
I've been working on these drugs.
So the podcast is basically about
overcoming something huge in your life.
Um, so that was my story and I thought
I'd better tell my story first.
And, um, the guests I've had so
far have been absolutely amazing.
It's Sam Brown, who's, uh, I mean,
chart topping hit, but she lost
her voice and it's never come back.
Um, she's overcome that.
And she's released another album
this year, using menadine and.
Vocoders and things like that, um, without
a voice, which is just, it's unbelievable.
And then, uh, uh, David Glennie, who
started to go deaf aged eight, but
then carved out a international solo
percussionist career and still doing it.
So, these people have got just
incredible stories, not just musicians
I'm going to be speaking to, but
I'm starting with musicians because.
That's who I know, um, but
yeah, it's overcoming these huge
hurdles in your life, but still
continuing to be massive successes.
Just incredible, really inspiring stories.
And really inspiring people as well.
I mean, yes, obviously Dame Evelyn
Glenny, her reputation precedes her.
Sam Brown, obviously.
I mean, what a voice to lose.
Well, are you ready to go back in time?
Let's, um, find out how it all began.
So here we are back in time.
Uh, Carol, how did it all start for you?
How young were you when you first
became aware of music, your first
music memories, uh, that sort of thing?
Carol: Well, I've got an older
brother, um, who's two years older
than me, um, and, uh, I think my
parents were always, encouraging that
you try literally everything, which
I think any good parent should do.
I mean, it all started with
sort of recording lessons at
college and at school, I mean,
and I think every child, 30 kids
in a classroom, all aged four
or five, playing a recorder must
have been hell for those teachers.
but I found it very easy.
I remember that.
And, uh, my, my brother started playing
the cello from, I think, age six, so, he
couldn't even reach his feet on the, on
the ground when he was sat on the chair.
So they had, I think, ice
cream boxes for his feet.
While he was playing the
cello, which is amazing.
So I mean, I started growing up straight
away with my brother playing the cello.
And I remember trying a few
instruments here and there.
I tried classical guitar.
And I think I didn't have
any lessons on clarinet.
But I had a clarinet
that I played around on.
And, uh, it wasn't until a music test
aged 11 at school, where They sat all
the kids in the, uh, in the hall, all
separate a little piece of paper and
played a few notes and things on this
recording and say, right, if you can
tell what's sharp and what's flat, and,
uh, it got quite difficult, I think.
But I, I found it extremely easy and
the results came back saying, well,
you can choose any instrument you like
because you've got a very good ear.
You can, you can do it.
I said, Oh, great.
Didn't really think much of it.
But they said, We need an
oboe for the school orchestra.
So, we'd like you to play the oboe.
So, the end of that day, I went home, told
my parents, and I said, What's an oboe?
They played me some more things,
and I just went, Ugh, I don't
like the sound of that at all.
And apparently, I just turned
around to my dad and said, What's
the one with the slidey arm thing?
And they found some recordings and I
think they played me all sorts of things
like, some real comedy stuff, like from
George Chisholm, fast forward a few
years, I ended up having a lesson from
George Chisholm, which was ridiculous.
But yeah, they played me some recordings,
some sort of marching brass bands,
um, big bands and stuff like that.
And I went, yeah, that's it.
That's what I want.
Gareth: Well, you just totally
smitten from the word go
My dad managed to get hold
of a, a cheap trombone.
It was, I mean, it was, it was
bent, but it, but it worked.
And, uh, he brought it home and, I
think managed to, it was like a book, a
tuner day book in there about learning
the slide positions and, and all that.
So I just took myself away and I, yeah, I,
I learned a scale before my first lesson.
And, one of my, one of my good
friends, I'm still in touch with
now, he was actually witnessing
my first ever trombone lesson.
And, uh, he said most.
Brass players in their first lesson
are taught how to produce a note,
like buzzing, and I turned up
and played a scale, it was like,
overachiever from the start, it's just,
Gareth: I, well, I had, um, I used
to be a primary school teacher, so.
I've been on the other side of that
kind of wider opportunities thing
where, you know, every, I think it
was year, four, um, every child would,
learn an instrument and I think in
this particular year they had a choice.
And one of them was the corn it.
So I thought, oh, I'll give the corn a go.
And it was exactly like you say, you know,
I think I can just about produce a note.
From that lesson, that was the, uh,
the, the, some of my experience.
So yeah, amazing to turn
up and do a whole scale.
uh, you know, you, you
concentrate on how do you hold it?
I mean, the trombone as well,
Carol: know, I know,
Gareth: all sorts going
Carol: loved it, yeah, I just loved it.
I'm sure the teacher had to correct
a few things here and there, but.
Yeah, and I just had cornet
teachers up until grade eight, I
think it was because there weren't
any trombone players in the area.
So I was learning from trumpet
and cornet method books with all
the fingerings above the notes.
So little did I know I was
actually learning the fingering
for a brass instrument at the same
time as learning the trombone.
So fast forward, when I got
to college, doing a doubling
instrument on the euphonium, it
was just like, well, that's easy.
Carol: the valve.
Gareth: so you had a real
affinity for this stuff.
Going back then to, you, you
just started learning trombone.
You, you mentioned that, the powers
that be wanted you to play the
oboe, uh, it would fit it nicely
into the orchestra or something.
Did you then join, music groups,
orchestras, that kind of thing
So there was, um, I grew
up in Milton Keynes.
Someone's got to come from Milton Keynes.
Gareth: with all the roundabouts?
Carol: All the roundabouts, they
all look slightly different though.
Um, and, uh, yeah, so there were so
few trombone players in the area.
I was basically put in
every group straight away.
Gareth: Ah, okay.
There's a pattern forming here,
Carol, doing everything all at once.
Carol: Um, yeah, brass band,
orchestras, big bands, and Milton
Key's music center service was
unbelievable back in those days.
I remember every evening of
the week, apart from Sundays,
there were rehearsals going on.
And then Saturday mornings was off
to the music center, but Saturday
morning started at eight o'clock
with musicianship and composition
right the way through to, I think it
was three o'clock in the afternoon.
So it wasn't like Saturday mornings.
It was all day Saturday, pretty much.
Um, and it was jam packed.
And I remember being put in an
orchestra for the first time.
And there was this bass clef
and I've been taught by cornet
teachers who are obviously teaching
in brass band and treble clef.
Um, from these cornet books.
So I get put in an
orchestra with bass clef.
I'm like, I haven't been
taught how to play that.
Here's the part.
So I had to teach myself bass clef.
And then there's obviously tenor
clef turns up in the orchestra.
Well, how do I play that?
Here's your part.
You're in the rehearsal.
So I taught myself bass clef,
tenor clef, alto clef because my
lessons couldn't come quick enough.
Um, because I was in all the ensembles.
And I just loved it from the word go.
I was like classical jazz, um,
everything right from the start,
which was, I mean, fast forward to.
when I got offered a full time orchestral
position, I was like, actually,
I really like doing everything.
I don't think I can narrow it down and
just choose one because I've always done
a bit of everything and I still am doing
a bit of everything, which I just love.
Gareth: That's amazing.
It sounds like you have that rare thing
of having a good ear and being good at
sight reading as well, which I know a
lot of, a lot of, kids growing up with
music and certainly as adults as well.
I don't feel like I'm a particularly
good sight reader, but I have a good ear.
It's usually one or the other, isn't it?
Carol: Yeah, I think, I did rely
on my sight reading quite a lot
growing up because practicing
is never really something.
Um, it wasn't really, wants to do
And it's the same as like
scales, site reading practice.
It's all something you're
going to be examined on.
So it's never exciting.
Whereas site reading, I just kind of
relied on because I didn't practice.
as much as I should have done.
So I used to turn up to my lesson,
trombone and piano, I used to turn up with
a piece of music, literally dug it out,
put it on the music stand and said, I've
been practicing this, completely lying.
And they said, Oh, okay, yeah,
let's, let's hear it then.
And then I sight read through it.
and then the teacher said,
Oh yeah, that was right.
Then let's work at this bit.
Let's work at that bit.
So that's what I used to do.
I used to sight reading my lessons.
Um, and sight reading bit
of Debussy on piano was, was
hard, but that's what I did.
And I got doing that.
And I think I didn't realize that
actually stood me really good stead
for, being a session musician.
I mean, turning up to sessions where
you don't get a chance to see any of the
music before and you're there for sort
of six hours, sight reading everything.
And it sounds like you were almost
using the lessons as practice.
Carol: Yeah, absolutely.
Gareth: How do I improve on
this that I've just played?
Gareth: Oh, fantastic.
You mentioned the piano.
Carol: Yeah, so Buckinghamshire,
um, there were some County Music
Scholarships, and my brother, had got
a County Music Scholarship, and it
enables you to have free piano lessons.
So, uh, um, I remember going into
this County Music Scholarship
with recorder, classical guitar,
trombone, um, and juggling all
these instruments as a little kid.
And, uh, yeah, there was, uh,
there was all sorts of things.
I played this, this classical guitar
piece, And I made a mistake in the
middle of the, of the, uh, the audition
and I just stopped and went, sorry,
and then carried on my, my trombone
piece, I, I, I was just about to start
the piano introduction started and I
forgot to take the slide lock off.
So I went, um, I had to stop, sorry,
Carol: um, and I, I got
through the audition.
I thought, oh, this, I completely
just fluffed it completely.
Um, but I, I dunno who the examiners were.
They said just a little tip.
Don't say sorry, just carry on.
But I got this, I got this, um,
Wisconsin Music Scholarship and
then I got free piano lessons.
Um, and I'm so glad I got the piano
lessons because, uh, I mean, any musician,
I think if you can play the piano as well,
it's just, it's all there in front of you.
And it's just, it helps everything.
So, so good to be able to play piano.
It's great to put things
in context, isn't it?
You can work out
baselines and melodies and
Carol: Yeah, you can
see the thing there.
So after all your, teenage orchestral
music groups, did the Saturday
morning group go all the way through?
Carol: Yeah, it was constant.
Um, it was, I think it was
Monday night was choir.
Tuesday night was brass band and trumpet.
Wednesday was, uh, one of the
youth orchestras and brass quintet.
Thursday night was, um,
the other orchestra.
Friday night was, uh, I can't
remember which one it is now.
Um, I think it was the other brass band.
Was it big band?
And then Saturday morning was just, yeah,
just, just ensemble, ensemble, ensemble.
Lesson, lesson, lesson.
And we had musicianship classes,
composition classes, and I was taking
this huge keyboard in and learning
about, um, sort of arpeggiators and,
composing bass lines, chord sequences.
So I was learning all of that
when I was just a teenager.
And then, it was, yeah, learning grade
from, for grade eight, Cornet teacher
said, um, uh, we should probably
try and find a trombone teacher for
you to get you through grade eight.
Um, finally some sort of specialist and,
um, and this guy was absolutely amazing.
He was touring with the Spice Girls and,
playing with, uh, like Suggs and, madness
and yeah, so I, I got a real feel for that
kind of thing and, and we'd be playing
through the grade eight repertoire.
So let's do a bit of jamming.
So he'd be playing the piano.
Um, get me to improvise along
and, so I got, I got such great
grounding from him as well.
Um, and then when it was time to sort of
audition for music colleges, I sort of
decided Guildhall was where I wanted to
go because they had the really well known
big band and uh, the jazz side of things
and the classical thing and composition,
I wanted to carry on with everything.
And I auditioned everywhere anyway,
the academy, college, Guildhall,
I think Birmingham and Manchester.
And I remember getting a place
everywhere and on the spot
Guildhall said, here is your place.
And they literally sort of pushed it
across the table to me in this interview.
And I pushed it straight back at them
and I said, I don't want to come here.
Gareth: Oh, why not?
Carol: I think it was like
half term or something.
So the building was deserted
and it was just like, I don't
get a feel in this place.
And I thought we'd just love this vibe.
I thought this was where I wanted to go.
But it was just.
And I don't know whether that was the
right decision or the wrong decision,
but everything seems to have worked out.
And the place that had the
atmosphere for me was the RNCM.
So I turned down Academy College.
The most people sort of gravitate
towards the London colleges, but
actually Manchester was drew me.
Um, and again, they had all the big
band and the classical side of things.
And actually, I think, I think it
really worked out for me because
right from my first year undergraduate,
I started freelancing with the Hallé
Orchestra and the BBC Philharmonic,
which all the trombone students in
the years above me weren't yet doing.
So it was kind of like, Oh, I don't
really know what's going on here.
But, I think the standard in Manchester
at that time, there were some incredible
players, but there were other sort of
players that weren't right up there.
And I think I managed to sort of
overtake some of them quite quickly.
So I was sort of doing a lot
of freelance work in the area
and then big band work as well.
I started doing Blackpool Tower
Ballroom, from the age of 18.
And joined Andy Pryor's big band.
And my freelance work just got busier
and busier throughout my studies.
So by the time I got to my final year, I
actually had to say to the college, look,
I'm on trial with the Symphony, I'm on
trial with BBC National Orchestra Wales.
I haven't got time to be here, but
I'd like to do my final recital
and they completed it and they
said, yeah, we'll, we'll take care
of all of the ensembles and just
come back and do the final recital.
So I was, I was just freelancing
full time by my final year.
Which I, I, I mean, looking back
now, cause I teach at the RNCM, and
students are sort of just hoping for
that first gig and that first sort
of chance to get into the profession.
And so I just look back and
think how lucky I was to have.
Um, yeah, I had several people
that sort of took me under their
wing and saw something in me.
I gave me those opportunities.
Gareth: Do you think that came from
your trombone teacher you were saying,
he was playing the Spice Girls and,
uh, other artists and just showed you
this entirely other world to things.
Do you think that gave you the now
to, to go to college and go, right,
well, you know, let's get to it.
Carol: I think, yeah, I, I do think,
at the time I didn't realize I
was being really inspired by him.
but I think looking back, absolutely.
He had a PhD in the ombudsshaw.
Carol: I know, I know,
Carol: I know exactly.
I think you can choose anything to
do a PhD on as long as, the pitch and
you can say to people that, I mean,
I started looking to do a PhD myself.
I'm not sure I've got time at the moment,
um, but, um, but he, he started, yeah,
he, he managed to do a complete PhD
and I thought, well, I, I'm, I'm in
really secure hands here with someone
who knows all about the embouchure,
uh, and the fact that he was, he'd
done the touring, the session, the, the
sessions, and he actually gave him my
first ever professional gig as well,
depping for him when I was 15 or 16.
So yeah, it's amazing that I sort
of gained that from him and then
I wanted to find a college where I
could carry on doing all of that.
Gareth: So, obviously you've
dived into the world of work and
freelancing and gigging and stuff.
Um, let's go back to
your cancer diagnosis.
What happened then?
Where, where were you in your life?
when that hit you?
Carol: pretty much just graduated.
my freelance career was literally
getting better and better and better.
And then throughout my illness,
my freelance career continued to
get better and better and better.
But I just found this lump in the left
hand side of my neck, um, because we, we
have loads of, uh, sort of lymph nodes all
around our necks, and it was just sort of
the base of my left hand side of my neck,
and the trombone you hold in the left, on
your left hand, the whole weight of the
instrument goes in your left arm, and I
think it's apparently the heaviest musical
instrument where you take all the weight
in one arm, and your right arm has got
to be completely free from the slide, so
I just thought, well, it's just muscles.
It's just muscles going wrong.
Um, and I was working
literally every single day.
I wasn't even taking a day
off, because I was loving it.
I was saying yes to everything
and just seven days a week,
without a doubt, just working.
And I remember this lump getting slightly
bigger and slightly more painful.
And so I thought, well, I'll go
see a physio because I remember
this great physio that the Halle,
members used to go and see.
Um, cause I hurt my neck at one point,
like the top of my spine or something.
So I went, went to see her, for
this little lump in my neck.
And she said, I'm not going to touch that.
Have you got a good GP?
And I said, not really, no.
Um, she said, well, if you've got a
friend nearby who, who's got a good GP
that, you know, I've said, yeah, actually
just not far away, but slightly out of.
Where I'm meant to have a GP, so, right,
well, can you change your address to
their address and go see their GP?
Yeah, yeah, I can do that.
I'm doing that.
And she said, yeah, do it, do it today.
Okay, yeah, okay, I'll do that.
So I managed to get this, uh, get
to see this other GP, and, uh, she
said, I'm not going to touch that.
I'm going to refer you to ear,
nose and throat department.
, and she got this red pen out
and wrote the word urgent.
Didn't think anything of it.
and, uh, and so, I, I, I just about to
start touring with the show, Chicago.
just around the UK and then going abroad.
Um, so, I was just about to head
into literally full time show,
and, uh, I got, I then got sent to
ear, nose and throat department.
They had a camera up my
nose and down my throat.
They couldn't find anything.
Um, they did a needle biopsy,
which was like a, um, syringe,
trying to go into the tumors.
Which we didn't know were tumors at
the time, um, to try and pull cells out
to find what the diagnosis would be.
Came back, um, weeks later and they said,
well, we haven't found any cancer cells.
So, we don't think it's cancer,
but we think it's most likely to be
HIV or Hepatitis B, C, or typhoid.
That was the list they gave me.
And I was like, oh my god, right?
Okay, I'm just in my early twenties.
Um, they said, so we're going
to have to take a node out and
get a definitive diagnosis.
So a few weeks later went in,
they took a little note out of
my neck, a general anesthetic.
And then a couple of weeks later
went back in for the results.
And I met the surgeon who I met in the
anesthetic room, and I wasn't really
expecting to meet a surgeon in an office.
I was thinking, don't you
just do like surgeon things?
And he came with a diagnosis.
Um, and he said, unfortunately, we
don't know if it's spread anywhere.
So we're going to have to send
you for a full body scan and,
uh, and then take it from there.
And, uh, yeah, so it's
just, yeah, ridiculous.
How have I got cancer
Carol: went for a full full body scan
and then went for the appointment
then met my first oncologist.
And he said, unfortunately it has spread
and it's in between your lungs and it's
15 centimeters around between your lungs.
and he said, chemotherapy
starts on Tuesday.
Carol: my God.
The first thing I said
was, how would I not know?
But I've got this 15 centimeter
round tumor in between my lungs
when I'm a trombone player.
And apparently we use our lungs as
much as professionals people do.
That's literally the lung
capacity that we use.
And he said, you've got so much room
in there, you wouldn't have a clue.
Chemo starts on Tuesday.
And I said, well, well, well, well,
in my early twenties, how about saving
eggs, for, for future and later in life.
And he said, chemotherapy
starts on Tuesday.
So that was it, that that was the start
when they'd given you the, the initial,
it could be this, this, or this.
Did you then go off with Chicago and tour?
Or at that point, were you thinking, I
Carol: the tour had.
The tour hadn't just started
yet, so I got my diagnosis on
the first week of the tour.
I'd just started it Glasgow on the tour,
Gareth: oh, wow.
Carol: came home, um, got the
diagnosis and then, um, they said
chemotherapy's gonna be every
two weeks on the Tuesday morning.
And the, uh, the side effects,
from the dose on Tuesday
morning, last till about Sunday.
so you feel absolutely like death
from Tuesday to Sunday, but then
I had a week off from chemo.
So the tour manager actually said,
well, why don't you just come
and do the show every other week?
And I said, if I'm allowed to do that, I'd
love to, um, cause he can easily just get
someone else could be doing it full time.
but he chose to keep employing
me and I really needed that.
Um, that kept me going.
So it was just one week chemo, one week
touring, one week chemo, one week touring.
And that was how the, how it all started.
Gareth: That's incredible that you chose
to, uh, to, to dive in and, um, especially
with the tumor where it was as well.
Um, I think it, it speaks
to your resilience you
Carol: Well, I mean, by this time, um,
I'm in a tumor on the left hand side of
my neck had, um, it was, it was up to,
I can still feel the sort of scarring
from it, um, up to there and it went
right down to over my collarbone.
So it was a good, I don't
know how long that is,
Gareth: why are we,
Carol: but so it was big in the, in my
neck and it was big in between my lungs.
But yeah, it was kind of like.
In a way, I could segregate the
hospital stuff and then my life in a
way, I remember someone saying to me
at the very start, hang on a minute,
you've just been given this diagnosis.
And this guy said, if that was me, I'd
shut myself away for those six months of
chemo and just concentrate on doing that.
And I said, I absolutely couldn't do that.
There's no way I could just shut
myself away and just do chemo and
not have a life outside of that.
That would kill me.
so I think actually keeping that
going, touring and, having the
chemo and separating the two just
spurred me on, gave me energy
Gareth: And how long did
you have to have chemo?
Carol: while that, that
course was six months.
and, uh, I remember after the second
or third treatment, the lump in the
side of my neck seemed to have gone.
I was like, well, this is working.
This is amazing.
It might be making me
feel like absolute death.
I lost my hair within
the first few treatments.
but I can't feel the
lump anymore in my neck.
Obviously, you can't feel anything
between your lungs, so you've got no idea.
Um, but after the six months
of treatment, I had a scan.
And, uh, I remember the chemotherapy
nurse, once I got the results
from the oncologist, um, saying
that the treatment had failed.
the chemotherapy nurse gave me the
tightest hug and just said, I'm so sorry.
And we'd been, we'd been laughing and
bonding throughout all the, all the
treatments, but she was so serious.
He's just said, there's something
else we can try, but she
knew something that I didn't.
And that was my prognosis was really good.
In your early twenties, when you're
diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma, your
prognosis from especially the primary
chemotherapy, it's really, really good.
once that's failed, it
starts taking a nosedive.
and then the next treatment that
chemotherapy failed, and then the
stem cell transplant that failed,
and then the radiotherapy failed,
and then the next treatment failed.
And it was fail, fail, fail, fail,
fail, constant back to back treatment.
and then come 2006, they then
said, we're afraid that you're
not going to terms with this.
and actually you're not going to survive
because we've exhausted all avenues.
we're going to send you to a
psychologist to help you get your
head around the fact that, yeah, you
need to get your affairs in order.
You need to go and write your will.
And, uh, they started telling me that
and I said, right, I don't understand,
I don't understand, I feel, I feel fine.
but there was this stubborn tumor in
between my lungs and, uh, yeah, it
was, it was horrible to be told that
they never said the word terminal.
They never said that, but they kept
telling me that I wasn't going to survive.
because we exhausted all avenues of
treatment for Hodgkin's lymphoma.
Um, but they said, if you're willing,
we'll look out for some clinical trials.
And I said, well, yeah,
I've got no other choice.
Some people, and I know people who
have been on a very similar journey,
they've been battered so much by this
treatment, they then said, no, I'm done.
but I said, yeah, I've got no choice, of
course, I'll sign up to anything you find.
and they said, well, hopefully
something might come along and it
was literally like that, right?
Go away, go on tour with cancer and we'll
let you know if something else turns up.
And we had regular scans because, uh,
just as soon as the tumor sort of start
picking up a lot of speed again, because
I think all the treatments sort of
did a little bit, sort of stunted it
a little bit, but then it grows again.
but then when it started picking
up speed, they said, right, we need
to really find something quick.
And, uh, the first clinical trial
I went through, that failed.
but the specialist that I had was
just unbelievably retired now.
And he was one of the sort of top
two or three oncologists in Europe.
And he was bringing back all these,
these ideas and treatments and
things from all over the world, all
these conferences used to go to.
And, uh, after this first failed
clinical trial, he said, this is
actually really interesting though.
I said, okay, you
haven't just said failed.
You've said it's interesting because
you have responded a little bit to this
clinical trial and the way clinical trials
are going is it's, um, it's more directed
to your type of Hodgkin's lymphoma.
It's not just Hodgkin's lymphoma, um, it's
to do with the proteins that exist on your
tumors and the tumors were called, um, I
think, I think it was like CD30 positive.
I don't know what that means.
Um, but this clinical trial was anti CD30.
So I was like, well, that.
Um, and so they were, that,
that's the kind of thing they
need to, um, to find for me.
And he said, that's what
we're going to try and find.
So basically that the infusion goes
all around your system, but it only
releases the treatment on the tumors
because that's where the proteins exist.
They don't exist anywhere
else in the body.
So in theory, the treatment is then
a lot stronger right on the tumor
rather than regular chemotherapy, which
literally hits everything in your body.
So again, I went back on tour.
I was touring with Seal at that time.
and literally flying all over the world.
And Seal, bless him, he could have got
someone else again, employed someone
else that could be there all the time.
Um, but on days off, that was me
flying home for, scans or treatment
or flying back again for a blood
transfusion or whatever it was.
and then eventually there was a
second clinical trial came along.
It's just got code names
before it's got a name.
Gareth: like compressors and things.
Carol: yeah, yeah, I know
it does actually, yeah.
Um, and this, this, uh, clinical
trial was happening in Perth in
Australia and in London in Hammersmith.
And there were just two of us in London
and I think three people in Perth.
That was it.
and so it just shows how, like, these
clinical trials just, it's just a
handful of people that might do it.
And I managed to get on
this clinical trial and, uh.
all they could tell me was,
uh, it's highly radioactive.
They couldn't really tell
me anything else about it.
And I was locked in a lead line
room for nine days and injected
with this highly radioactive drug.
And I've got a video on my phone,
um, because, uh, because this drug
was so radioactive, this syringe,
normal size syringe surrounded
in lead, but that had to be on a
trolley surrounded by a wall of lead.
And wheeled into my room.
It's just a tiny syringe.
So you know how lighter syringes, but
it's on a trolley surrounded by lead to
try and protect people from this drug.
And the people that wheeled it
in, connected it all up, set the
infusion going and then had to wait
outside and protect their own organs
from me behind the lead screen.
and so I was locked in this room for
nine days and a man with a Geiger
counter came to the doorway every
day, measuring my radioactivity.
Um, and I've got a video of him as well on
my phone because I just didn't believe it.
I just, I feel absolutely
fine what's going on.
and in the middle of that treatment,
I went for a nuclear scan.
and yeah, it's just, it is insane.
When I talk about it, I still think,
oh my God, this happened to me.
but yeah, I mean, eventually got
through that treatment, had a scan.
and then I went on tour with Sting for.
I like, I was meant to stay two
meters away from people for the
next couple of months because my
radioactivity is still coming down.
And I went on tour with sting and, uh,
I was like, I've got to be on stage
now and I've got to sit next to people.
So I've got to tell everyone
around me, look, this is,
Gareth: I'm slightly radioactive.
Carol: um, and people like, yeah,
and then I came out in this, it
was straight after that tour, I
started coming out on this rash.
and you've got to report every tiny
thing to specialists because it could be.
Related to this drug that
you've just been through.
Um, and this rash got more and more
intense and it sort of started on my
tummy, but then spread upwards and then
spread downwards, down my legs, all
the way down my arms and just spread
outwards and to the, to the point where
I couldn't actually see my regular skin
color anywhere on my body through this
rash, it was solid and so, so painful.
and I went into hospital one day
to say, look, I need some help.
And I lifted my t shirt
to show them this rash.
And the specialist just went, oh shit, and
I went, okay, I don't want you to do that.
tell me what it is, what's happening.
And he said, we don't know.
This is a clinical trial.
This is experimental.
And he said, I guess you're kind
of being sunburnt from the inside
outwards and I hope it gets better.
And I this is going to go or if this is
going to get worse and worse and worse.
And it eats me away.
No, we've no idea.
I hope it gets better.
And that's it.
That's what happens with experimental
drugs is you are statistics, you're,
you're what you're, what you respond
is going to go down in some data
and they'll try and improve from it.
So it's, it's literally potluck,
whether you have a clinical trial,
that's going to really, really make a
difference or you're really, really.
Um, that's what trials are for.
And then, um, another clinical
trial came along and I was like,
Well, I still, I'm still touring,
still okay, I've still got energy.
And, uh, this next clinical trial, they
said, the only statistics we've got so
far is people get sort of, um, tingling,
pins and needles in the hands and feet.
so yeah, I can cope with that.
So I signed up for this clinical
trial and I was back on tour with
And I signed up to six doses of this.
Um, this drug, and the pins and
needles in my hands and feet start to
get in sort of more and more painful.
and I've, my circulation has
never been fantastic ever since my
hands and feet, but that's fine.
but after the fourth dose, um, they wanted
me to have a scan to see how it was going.
So on a day off on tour,
thankfully, I was just in Europe.
Seal flew me home, um, had a scan
and then, uh, flew back straight
away the next morning to go
and rejoin the tour in France.
And, uh, I landed at seven o'clock, in the
morning in France, so six o'clock here.
and I got a phone call from a
specialist at six o'clock in
the morning, seven o'clock in
France saying, Carol, it's John.
You're in remission for the
first time in seven years.
Carol: I was like, what?
And this, and this is the same guy that
repeatedly for the last five years, last
five years, repeatedly told me that I
was going to die and to head around the
fact that I wasn't going to survive.
but then I knew I couldn't celebrate
because I knew that this is a
clinical trial, anything can happen.
It can grow back next week.
It could grow back today.
and then we've got to try
and find something else.
So once you get to remission, you've
got to kind of get it while it's gone
and get a bone marrow transplant.
so it had a stem cell transplant in the
past that was from my own stem cells.
Um, but this time they said we need to
find a donor, to find a better immune
system to replace your immune system.
So signed up for that as well.
So I had a month to decide whether
to go for this transplant or not.
And this is the crazy bit of a story.
so this is the crazy bit, So they
gave me a month to decide and they
said that if you leave the remission
like that, we think you'll probably
live for three years maximum.
If you go for the transplant.
And it works, you could live to
a ripe old age, but we need to
talk about the mortality rates.
It's a 30% survival
rate of this transplant.
We'll try and find a donor for you.
So, there's a month to decide.
They found two matches
out of 11 million people.
One was pregnant, so they couldn't
ask her, it was the wrong time.
And this German man, he said yes.
He was a perfect match.
So this month to decide, I literally
could have taken either decision.
I took myself right to every
possibility of each decision.
And I just decided I
don't want any regrets.
Even if I go for the live for three
years at the last little moment,
I don't want to regret having not
given the bone marrow transplant ago.
If I go for the bone marrow
transplant, it doesn't work then.
And they come and tell me, right.
Yeah, it's not worked.
You're, you're not going to survive,
you've got a day or two, I don't want
to regret having just given it a go.
So I signed up to it and I thought,
right, I'm going to give it my best shot.
And so they, you start intensive
chemo, you're shut in this, this
isolation room for, I think it was
about six weeks, just this room.
And, uh, they give you intensive
chemotherapy, which I'd had
in the past, um, so I knew how
horrific it was going to be.
On day, minus nine, day, minus eight, a
minus seven, minus six, minus five data
down to day zero and day minus nine,
my donor is over in Germany having some
injections to boost his blood count.
So he has maximum amount of cells to
donate day, minus eight, day, minus seven,
day, minus six, day zero is transplant
day where he is in hospital in Germany.
He has, and he's told me about it
because I've met him since, um,
he had a needle in one arm and.
Everything coming out in whizzing through
a machine and then everything they didn't
need went straight back in the other arm
and he went back to work that afternoon.
So, um, that's, I think that's 98%
of donating now is just like that.
Most people think it's gonna be painful
and no, no, no, that's the patient.
The patient, when you go through a bone
marrow biopsy, which I've had several
of when they drill into your hip bone.
That's the bit that hurts, but no,
the donating is, I mean, that's a
message that just people don't know.
He went back to work, these cells
go through some testing and they
go into a, an ice pack container
with a courier, a sand luggage on
a plane straight to my bedside.
And I've had intensive chemotherapy.
I feel like utter death by this point.
And before the cells arrived a team
of like, no, one's allowed into
my isolation room because it's got
to be, I've got no immune system.
So if anyone comes in with dust or
a cold or anything, it can kill me.
but this team of microbiologists
all came into my room, masked
aprons, gloves, a team of them.
And I was like, what's going on?
What is this?
And they said, we had a phone
call from the hospital in Germany.
And we're afraid that the
cells are contaminated.
And I said, what do you mean?
And they said there's a
chance of toxoplasmosis.
I said, well that's gonna kill me.
Hands down, 100% that is gonna kill me.
I'm not gonna have it.
I'm not having the infusion.
Right, I refuse, I'm
pulling out at this point.
And they said, well actually,
you've now got no immune system.
You're gonna have to have this infusion.
Because otherwise you're gonna die.
Because there's no one else.
That can save, you know, it's like,
Oh my God, and they will run some
tests when they arrive, but the tests
won't come back for two or three days.
So the cells arrived in this big syringe.
And I've got this Hickman line in
my, in my neck, coming up my chest.
And this nurse just connects it
up four o'clock that afternoon.
She slowly pushed it in.
And I'm wide awake watching this
happen, looking at the syringe,
thinking this is going to kill me.
Carol: And It was terrifying.
00:49:21,838 --> 00:49:23,908
That was the most terrifying moment.
00:49:24,488 --> 00:49:26,408
And I got, yeah, welling
up now just remembering it.
00:49:27,018 --> 00:49:30,708
Um, three days later, the
microbiologist came in and said
00:49:31,238 --> 00:49:32,408
the test came back negative.
00:49:32,468 --> 00:49:34,218
So I was like, oh my God.
00:49:34,218 --> 00:49:34,848
Oh my God.
00:49:35,548 --> 00:49:38,668
But I still had the, the
opposite, the 30% survival rate
00:49:39,013 --> 00:49:39,413
00:49:39,978 --> 00:49:43,048
Carol: hanging over me, which
lasts for about the first year
00:49:43,048 --> 00:49:46,105
because the anti-rejection drugs
and it's real touch and go.
00:49:46,565 --> 00:49:48,215
and you're very, very, very weak.
00:49:48,820 --> 00:49:49,890
For at least a year.
00:49:50,526 --> 00:49:54,820
but yeah, after six weeks, my cell
count slowly came up from zero.
00:49:54,850 --> 00:49:55,790
They could open the door.
00:49:56,246 --> 00:50:00,246
I'd lost so much weight because I mean,
the intensive chemotherapy gives you
00:50:00,276 --> 00:50:03,236
ulcers and every part of your mouth
and all the way down your throat.
00:50:03,246 --> 00:50:04,666
So you can't eat anything.
00:50:05,616 --> 00:50:06,966
Um, apart from ice cream.
00:50:06,966 --> 00:50:07,772
That was it.
00:50:07,820 --> 00:50:08,460
there are bonuses.
00:50:08,500 --> 00:50:14,870
It was chocolate, but yeah, Eventually,
two years post transplant, I was
00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:16,410
allowed to find out who my donor was.
00:50:16,703 --> 00:50:21,083
and we both swapped details and I flew my
mum over to Berlin and went and meet him.
00:50:21,233 --> 00:50:23,673
And, uh, this complete
stranger who saved my life.
00:50:24,263 --> 00:50:24,923
00:50:26,043 --> 00:50:26,583
00:50:26,673 --> 00:50:26,873
00:50:27,073 --> 00:50:27,343
00:50:27,673 --> 00:50:30,743
Gareth: even, knowing the end
of the story for a minute there.
00:50:31,688 --> 00:50:36,561
You know, I can't even imagine,
what that moment must've felt like.
00:50:36,681 --> 00:50:41,144
It, you know, it's a, certainly some
perspective for listeners who might think,
00:50:41,324 --> 00:50:43,184
I'm feeling a little uninspired today.
00:50:43,194 --> 00:50:45,164
I can't think of a melody
or something, you know,
00:50:45,366 --> 00:50:46,326
Carol: Yeah, I mean, it's,
00:50:46,831 --> 00:50:47,831
Gareth: that's something else.
00:50:47,831 --> 00:50:50,021
It's a whole different league.
00:50:50,296 --> 00:50:52,456
Carol: it was, it was
just, it was ridiculous.
00:50:52,456 --> 00:50:57,126
I remember a speech I gave over
in Croatia back in October.
00:50:57,386 --> 00:51:01,426
And, uh, when I told that bit of
a story and I said that we think
00:51:01,776 --> 00:51:03,946
the cells are contaminated, I said,
well, that's going to kill me.
00:51:04,237 --> 00:51:07,247
There was a lady that came and
spoke to me afterwards saying she
00:51:07,247 --> 00:51:09,303
said she just she couldn't breathe.
00:51:09,313 --> 00:51:10,393
She was like holding her breath.
00:51:10,953 --> 00:51:13,346
Trying to wait and find
out what the outcome was.
00:51:13,346 --> 00:51:16,006
And I said, and then, Oh,
of course you survived.
00:51:16,426 --> 00:51:16,736
00:51:16,896 --> 00:51:19,516
It's like, yeah, I am.
00:51:20,791 --> 00:51:24,691
Gareth: And so full circle back to
you releasing your EP, releasing your
00:51:24,721 --> 00:51:30,001
singles, um, and you know, talking
about celebrating the milestone of 10
00:51:30,001 --> 00:51:35,051
years in remission that now becomes
so much more meaningful, doesn't it?
00:51:35,511 --> 00:51:39,531
So I encourage everyone to go
and have a listen to what they
00:51:39,531 --> 00:51:41,291
called, uh, where can people find
00:51:41,536 --> 00:51:45,546
Carol: So, yeah, so the EP is
called, um, in my veins, it's
00:51:45,546 --> 00:51:47,016
all related to my journey.
00:51:47,016 --> 00:51:51,756
So in my veins is all about the treatment
being in my veins, the cancer being in
00:51:51,756 --> 00:51:54,576
my veins, the everything just going on.
00:51:54,636 --> 00:51:59,836
And I mean, post bone marrow transplant,
uh, I've now got my donor's DNA.
00:52:00,436 --> 00:52:03,106
And my blood type has changed
over to his blood type as well.
00:52:03,146 --> 00:52:05,346
But that's, it's full of
hope that first track.
00:52:05,536 --> 00:52:09,216
Um, and then the second track, um,
called radioactive is all about that,
00:52:09,336 --> 00:52:10,546
that clinical trial I went through.
00:52:10,856 --> 00:52:14,606
And there's some, um, sounds in that that
represent all the Geiger counter on the
00:52:15,366 --> 00:52:15,576
00:52:16,651 --> 00:52:21,511
Um, there's a track called, um, the
risk is taken, which was me signing
00:52:21,511 --> 00:52:26,181
on a dotted line for the bone marrow
transplant and knowing the mortality
00:52:26,181 --> 00:52:28,071
rates and just going, right, here we go.
00:52:28,631 --> 00:52:30,281
So there's a load of
determination in that one.
00:52:30,761 --> 00:52:36,001
Um, and there's another track called
fusion, which is about the fusion
00:52:36,041 --> 00:52:42,101
of my donors DNA and my blood type
and just fusing into who I am now.
00:52:42,621 --> 00:52:43,061
And then there's a
00:52:43,181 --> 00:52:45,801
Gareth: Which is basically one
step away from a Marvel character.
00:52:45,861 --> 00:52:47,021
Let's, let's be honest.
00:52:47,111 --> 00:52:47,951
Carol: Yeah, exactly.
00:52:49,551 --> 00:52:50,041
00:52:50,321 --> 00:52:53,161
Carol: then the, uh, the last
track is called, uh, moving on.
00:52:53,651 --> 00:53:00,131
Um, because once I got through everything
and, um, they said, it looks like you've
00:53:00,131 --> 00:53:03,131
got a future ahead of you weirdly.
00:53:03,201 --> 00:53:08,481
And this is what threw me completely was
I really couldn't cope with that mentally.
00:53:08,938 --> 00:53:14,298
I think I was kind of like, I thought
I was in denial when I was being told I
00:53:14,298 --> 00:53:19,758
was dying for such a long time, but that
psychologist, I think really did his job.
00:53:20,253 --> 00:53:24,253
And I'd got my head around the fact
that I was dying and that's why I was
00:53:24,263 --> 00:53:25,663
living at a million miles an hour.
00:53:26,573 --> 00:53:27,833
Because I didn't have much time left.
00:53:28,663 --> 00:53:33,463
Um, but then when you're told you've
got a future, psychologically,
00:53:33,573 --> 00:53:34,733
I was just in a mess.
00:53:35,213 --> 00:53:37,703
And I had about 18 months
of depression then.
00:53:37,973 --> 00:53:41,416
And, uh, actually was sent
back to the psychologist to
00:53:41,416 --> 00:53:42,906
undo everything that he'd done.
00:53:43,526 --> 00:53:46,076
And helped me not be afraid of the
future because I was terrified,
00:53:46,446 --> 00:53:48,216
literally terrified of the future.
00:53:48,803 --> 00:53:53,343
it's like being launched into outer
space and it's like, there you go.
00:53:53,963 --> 00:53:56,323
I was like, I can't cope with it.
00:53:56,803 --> 00:53:59,453
So moving on, um, it's about that.
00:53:59,913 --> 00:54:03,713
There was this one appointment with my
psychologist where he said, well, how did
00:54:03,713 --> 00:54:06,033
you live your life in the thick of this?
00:54:06,523 --> 00:54:07,663
How did you cope with it?
00:54:08,353 --> 00:54:11,173
And I said, well, I remember
in the transplant procedure.
00:54:11,753 --> 00:54:13,533
Which was the hardest moment.
00:54:14,623 --> 00:54:16,223
Um, there was a nurse came into me.
00:54:16,783 --> 00:54:18,493
They used to sit with me at
like two o'clock in the morning.
00:54:18,493 --> 00:54:20,913
I was just, everyone else was
asleep, but I'm a musician.
00:54:20,913 --> 00:54:22,513
Of course, I'm awake late.
00:54:22,533 --> 00:54:25,423
So nurses come and sit with you and chat.
00:54:25,869 --> 00:54:28,279
And she said, when it gets
really hard, just break it down
00:54:28,279 --> 00:54:31,079
to the, to a day at a time.
00:54:31,949 --> 00:54:35,376
And then she said, if that gets too
hard, break it down to an hour at a time.
00:54:36,059 --> 00:54:39,979
And if that is too difficult, just
try and get through the next minute.
00:54:40,506 --> 00:54:42,196
And I was literally doing that.
00:54:42,591 --> 00:54:47,011
I had to literally try and get through
the next minute because it was so hard.
00:54:47,578 --> 00:54:49,718
and so I had to just live
in the now and that was it.
00:54:50,468 --> 00:54:53,958
I said that to my psychologist and
he said, well, people struggle to
00:54:53,958 --> 00:54:56,428
live in the moment all their lives.
00:54:57,018 --> 00:54:59,648
So if you know how to do that,
just carry on doing that.
00:55:01,878 --> 00:55:05,061
And then everything literally just
started just coming back into place.
00:55:05,281 --> 00:55:07,717
And I think I still live in the now I do.
00:55:07,777 --> 00:55:09,874
I still don't really, I don't know.
00:55:09,974 --> 00:55:12,994
I don't know whether I've got any goals
and ambitions because I still sort of.
00:55:13,103 --> 00:55:13,693
Living in the now.
00:55:14,503 --> 00:55:14,843
00:55:15,133 --> 00:55:15,583
00:55:15,783 --> 00:55:16,883
Long may it continue.
00:55:17,196 --> 00:55:18,716
Carol, you're an amazing human being.
00:55:18,756 --> 00:55:19,466
00:55:20,111 --> 00:55:21,121
What an inspiration.
00:55:21,436 --> 00:55:22,286
Carol: a long story, sorry.
00:55:22,691 --> 00:55:23,131
00:55:23,411 --> 00:55:23,651
00:55:23,651 --> 00:55:28,038
I wasn't expecting that, but
I'm so glad that you told it.
00:55:28,128 --> 00:55:30,348
Um, yeah, quite blown away by it.
00:55:30,415 --> 00:55:33,345
I mean, there's plenty of advice
in there for, for other people.
00:55:33,681 --> 00:55:37,495
but I do ask all of my guests for
an item and a piece of advice that,
00:55:37,905 --> 00:55:41,141
may have helped them, in their, in
their own musical journeys to leave
00:55:41,141 --> 00:55:47,601
in the, uh, the music room for others
to have an item that you could leave?
00:55:47,731 --> 00:55:50,081
Carol: Uh, couldn't live without
my trombones without a doubt.
00:55:50,481 --> 00:55:50,941
00:55:52,171 --> 00:55:57,421
I think, I think making a bit of a
little recording studio for yourself, I
00:55:57,421 --> 00:56:02,521
started off with just basic little gear
that slowly upgraded it mostly off eBay.
00:56:03,181 --> 00:56:07,401
And now really decent studio and a
nice little mobile studio as well.
00:56:07,881 --> 00:56:12,691
Um, which I use for my voiceovers
and podcasts now, on the road.
00:56:12,941 --> 00:56:18,038
So I think these days the music
industry is just changing so much and
00:56:18,038 --> 00:56:22,481
moving at such fast pace that I think
everyone needs to be really versatile
00:56:22,551 --> 00:56:24,491
and have, many strings to their bow.
00:56:24,491 --> 00:56:28,191
I mean, especially things like
lockdown, I suddenly became so
00:56:28,191 --> 00:56:29,981
busy because I had all the gear.
00:56:30,681 --> 00:56:33,041
Anyone who didn't, weren't as busy at all.
00:56:33,391 --> 00:56:37,565
Gareth: So you'd say, you know,
create, a creative space for yourself.
00:56:37,575 --> 00:56:38,215
00:56:38,215 --> 00:56:38,555
00:56:38,675 --> 00:56:38,975
00:56:39,285 --> 00:56:42,425
And it's, and it's, it's just your
own little safe little space as well.
00:56:42,425 --> 00:56:43,265
You can be creative.
00:56:43,265 --> 00:56:44,265
You can be imaginative.
00:56:44,275 --> 00:56:46,375
You can do, and this is
where I've written my music.
00:56:46,425 --> 00:56:50,791
I think it's, as creatives, we need
to have a space to be creative.
00:56:51,641 --> 00:56:52,561
00:56:52,581 --> 00:56:55,691
Well, let's call it a creative space
that is going in the music room.
00:56:55,741 --> 00:56:58,841
There's a space going in the
music room for others to find.
00:56:59,011 --> 00:56:59,611
Carol: A big item.
00:57:00,021 --> 00:57:01,171
Gareth: yeah, a big item.
00:57:01,251 --> 00:57:02,591
Well, it can be as big as you want.
00:57:02,591 --> 00:57:02,861
00:57:02,901 --> 00:57:03,531
Carol: Yeah, exactly.
00:57:03,541 --> 00:57:04,571
It could be a little room if you want.
00:57:04,581 --> 00:57:06,486
Gareth: so what advice would
you like to leave in the
00:57:06,486 --> 00:57:08,166
music room for others to find?
00:57:08,620 --> 00:57:12,136
Carol: I think if it's a young
musician, it's to everything, because
00:57:12,166 --> 00:57:13,756
that's, that's stood me a good stead.
00:57:14,116 --> 00:57:17,026
And you've got to do that for several,
several years to get established.
00:57:17,686 --> 00:57:19,506
And now I know I can say the word no.
00:57:21,273 --> 00:57:26,108
I think, I think that is, Great advice,
even if it's like a gig that you're
00:57:26,128 --> 00:57:28,918
offered a big band gig and you've never
played in a big band in your life,
00:57:29,688 --> 00:57:32,138
but you're a young musician, you don't
know where life's going to take you,
00:57:32,138 --> 00:57:36,068
you don't know where that next big
break is going to go, you don't know
00:57:36,128 --> 00:57:39,518
who is going to be sat next to you
and going to offer you that next gig.
00:57:39,858 --> 00:57:40,798
So that's what I did.
00:57:40,928 --> 00:57:41,998
And it's literally.
00:57:42,603 --> 00:57:46,540
worked out really well for me, but
also, another bit of advice, which
00:57:46,540 --> 00:57:52,406
I'm trying to listen to myself now
is slow down, take time and breathe.
00:57:52,826 --> 00:57:53,786
00:57:53,816 --> 00:57:55,791
Well, that can go in
the music room for you.
00:57:56,831 --> 00:57:59,441
As I said, Carol Jarvis, you
are an amazing human being.
00:58:00,111 --> 00:58:03,961
Thank you for your story and thank
you for joining me in the music room.
00:58:04,181 --> 00:58:05,101
Carol: Thank you so much.
00:58:12,029 --> 00:58:14,459
Gareth: Thanks for listening to
the Music Room podcast today.
00:58:14,849 --> 00:58:17,789
If you'd like to know more about the
show or the community that surrounds
00:58:17,789 --> 00:58:20,053
it, head to music room.community.
00:58:20,353 --> 00:58:21,583
The link is in the show notes.