Episode summary introduction:

Maddog & TC are in the studio to take you on a journey to encourage more dialogue to better manage men's mental health.  

Joining on this journey is Bob Reist,  Head Coach of our very own Valley Huskers.  The Huskers belong to the Canadian Junior Football league  and play in the British Columbia Football Conference.  Bob will share insights on the importance of recognizing mental health challenges and the vital role that communication plays in alleviating these burdens. 

Take this journey with us and make that commitment to reach out and engage in the dialogue to encourage those who are struggling to reach out for support in their time of need.

Our thought for the day”:

“When we repress our feelings , we not only hurt ourselves but the ones who love us.  Sharing really is caring, especially when it comes to our mental health”

Topics discussed in this episode:

• Startling statistics relating to men’s mental health;
• Myths associated with men's mental health;
• The importance of open dialogue surrounding emotional well-being and some of the surrounding challenges why men don’t;
• The cultural expectations that dictate a strong, silent masculinity, particularly within the context of competitive sports. Bob shares insights from his experience as a football coach, the episode illustrates the unique challenges faced by athletes who often feel pressured to conform to traditional notions of toughness. 
• Learning the signs & having “the conversation” checking in on mental health. 
• Maddog and Bob share their his personal experiences losing people close to them to suicide including a member of the Valley Husker family, Adrian Francis, a former player.
• Retiring Adrian’s jersey and meeting his family during this ceremony;
• Vulnerability is not synonymous with weakness, the discussion advocates for a collective approach to mental health, encouraging listeners to prioritize emotional well-being and extend their support to those around them.
• This episode not only informs but also inspires action, urging individuals to take steps towards creating a more supportive and understanding community for men's mental health.

Walkabout takeaways:

• It is essential for men to learn to express their feelings openly, as repression can lead to detrimental mental health consequences.
• In the pursuit of mental health awareness, it is paramount that we acknowledge the gravity of men's struggles and the importance of open dialogue.
• There are professionals you can reach out to when you find yourself struggling with your own mental health.
• A heartfelt message from Adrian’s mother, Connie:  

“...Adrian was very forgiving and wouldn't want his team mates to feel bad he would want them to succeed and to push forward and maybe this is part of it is to reach out during tough times even if one tough day gets you, go be with a buddy not to get to much into your own mind..”

• Help is available-Speak with someone today

Anywhere in Canada:  9-8-8: Suicide Crisis Helpline

• Creating a supportive environment for young men in sports is critical to encouraging them to share their feelings and seek help when necessary.

Men’s Mental Health Resources:

“Heads up Guys”

https://headsupguys.org/depression-in-men/ 

And Finally, check out this website for more information and resources:

“UBC Men’s Health Research Program”

https://menshealthresearch.ubc.ca/resources/ 

More about E-Walkabout:

To learn more about Electronic Walkabout visit us at   www.ewalkabout.ca.

If you want to read more “Thoughts of the Day” check out TC’s Book at Amazon:

“St. Mike's Fortunes”

Special thanks to:

Brittany Dueck, the Valley Huskers’ social media person, who was instrumental in putting this series together and letting people know about them through social media channels.

Steven Kelly, our technical advisor, who keeps trying to teach these old dogs new tricks when it comes to sounds and recording!!

“Remember to take advantage of the moment before the moment takes advantage of you!”

Electronic Walkabout. No one should have to walk through life alone. We share the good times, the bad times, and the best times.

Everyone needs a little direction now and again. And TC and Mad Dog are here to show you the way. A podcast where we talk about the important things in life.

Come Journey with us, the Electronic Walkabout. Good afternoon, listeners.

Mad Dog and I are in the studio to share a journey with you that is one of the most important things in life, to talk about our mental health. Join us as we begin a series into men's mental health and the importance of reaching out when we find ourselves lost in a time of need.

Now, Mad Dog, I know this topic is a serious one, but if we learn to talk about the tough stuff before a crisis happens, we will be better equipped to deal with them. Thoughts.

You mean men aren't comfortable expressing their feelings, Is that right?

Unfortunately, it is right.

It is.

It is.

The more we talk about it, the better it is.

The more we talk about it, the better it is. And really, what we're talking about is opening up that dialogue.

Now, as we take Journey, we have some guests in the studio to give their insight and thoughts on how to better manage mental health.

Not surprising, we will talk about it in the context of football as we welcome to our podcast for the second time, Bob Reese, head coach of our very own Valley Huskers. The Huskers belong to the Canadian Junior Football League and play in the British Columbia Football Conference. Thanks for joining us, Bob.

I know you have a passion for sharing the importance of awareness as it comes to mental health. How are you today?

I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on. It's always a pleasure.

Are you ready for this topic?

Am I ready to talk about mental health? It's a tough topic. Tough one for sure, but I'm always willing to take on the task.

You know, I just almost get the feeling it's like three guys in a room just kind of sitting there, not saying a word, hoping that the first one's going to break open as far as talking about men's mental health. But first, as always, a thought for the day. When we repress our feelings, we not only hurt ourselves, but the ones who love us.

Sharing really is caring, especially when it comes to our mental health. You're shaking your head. Yes, they're bad. Doctor.

I am. I'm agreeing with you.

You're agreeing. What I'm going to do right now is I'm going to just start with some statistics just to set the stage. But before I get into statistics.

I mean, they're not very good statistics by any means, but when you hear statistics, they mean anything to you at all.

I think it's maybe just a benchmark for whatever it is that's being measured. So you have a general idea as to the severity of it.

Men may exhibit different symptoms of mental health conditions than women, leading to the undiagnosis of anxiety and depression. If a mental health disorder is untreated, this can lead to a domino effect of chronic disease and issues with overall health. So just, just.

And I think it sets the stage just to let us know that the problem is bigger than we think it is. I mean, when I looked at that and read the statistics, I just couldn't believe that they were kind of read the way they were.

Yeah, it's alarming in some, in some of those, I mean, four to one, men, men, suicide rate to women. And that one jumps off the board, like that's quite a bit more. That's a pretty, pretty big number. Right? So certainly some alarming numbers there.

Well, you know, I'm going to tell you something right now and we're going to get into a little bit more. But that whole macho man, we have to be tougher than anybody because that's what the expectation. That certainly is part of the problem.

And then when we kind of add the whole dynamic of, let's say that tough sport such as football, I think that just kind of it's. And I hate to say it like this, it's like anxiety on steroids.

Yeah. Sometimes it's age or of the generation, like, I know my dad's era was not equipped at all to deal with emotion.

And hopefully as the generations go, we learn hopefully to improve that and not pass that on to our children.

Absolutely. And I hate to say this, but the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree with respect to Josh, my son.

And as you know, I was in law enforcement for 27 years and that that culture was really, really tough as far as allowing you to share your feelings when you saw some of those horrific things, and if you did, at least in your own mind, you just felt like you were weak for sure.

Would you, would it be safe to say that hopefully that's evolved since your time to current times and how they deal with that or address it?

Oh, I'm confident that it is, but I think we still got a long way to go. Not in the world of law enforcement. If we talk about men in general, we're on the right path. But again, it's like, it's like anything else.

It'll never happen to me, so why would I worry about it until it does?

Until it does, yeah.

So do you think with these numbers, do you think, like we talked about your dad's generation and things like that, are numbers getting worse or numbers getting better for men? Where do you think we're headed in that?

Yeah, if the problem are the same, but people just still can't cope with it, it might not budge at all.

It still might be that same ratio then as it is now, but there's probably a few more problems out there nowadays with social media and all that sort of influence. So it may not have changed at all.

So are you saying then, Bob, that quite possibly we just didn't have the stats before and the problem was, was.

Was on, like they say, undiagnosed and now it's starting to evolve to the point where we're starting to recognize it and, and we're starting to learn exactly how is out there.

Yeah, yeah, it's just interesting to, you know, like what were the stats before?

You know, obviously mental health and depression and suicide of things that have been happening for a long time, you know, and we're at this point now with, with numbers for men and it's just interesting to, to see, like, is it different now than it was before?

Are there more things on men now where it's our numbers are increasing in that department or are we, you know, with mental health awareness, awareness and things like that, are we taking the numbers down?

That's a really good question and I'd like to think that the numbers are coming down, but I think like I said before, we get a long way to go and I know that the professionals are doing the research. It's just those people that need to reach out for help, are they truly being made aware of where they can reach out?

And that's a big challenge for sure.

And that might be the only benefit of social media nowadays is that if I was 18 and something happened to one of my friends, I'd have to just hearsay it. Maybe at school or university where now it's all over, everybody shares it and it's immediately in your face. So better or is it worse?

Like, yeah, okay, I'm just going to say totally positive. I think we're on the right track. I think. And if we talk about, let's say the younger generation, they don't have the same challenges that we do.

They have different challenges. And I think more so as far as how to manage those emotions as a result of those challenges, it's really hard on them.

And I know that you working with the kids on the football team or young men, I should say you probably come across that almost on a daily basis when you're, when you're with that team.

Yeah, certainly. I mean we got 80 guys on the team. Coaching staff, you know, brings us up to around 100. So there, there's always something that's going on.

There are people that are struggling with, with tons of different things with day to day anxieties with, with deeper mental health anxieties, things like that. So there's lots of, of scenarios I guess that pop up throughout the season, throughout the off season that we deal with quite often.

So I'm just going to ask, why do you think men, and I will say, especially athletes find it so hard to talk about mental health? I mean, we sat here for a bit and, and actually when we started talking about it, we really didn't talk about it. We were kind of silent.

You don't know where to start.

Yeah, I mean, I think, me personally, I think society puts a lot of, a lot of constraints on, on what is acceptable, I guess, for, for men to be, you know, talking about, not in, like we shouldn't be talking about it.

And you know, there's a lot of things in days tell us that we should be talking about things like, you know, conversations like yes, we need to talk about mental health. And that's great.

But then you get put into a situation where, where that talking about that or sharing that or that emotion leads us to feeling of, of I can't do the, the, the gender specific role that I have, I guess in the man is in protecting and you know, and being the, the, the force in any sort of relationship, whether that's male, female or.

So.

I think we struggle sometimes to, to say like, yes, I know I should be talking about it, but, but talking about these things exposes me, right? And we don't want to be exposed and Sometimes can't be exposed. So I think there are a lot of constraints on.

On men, and that's probably why we tend to not share things.

Yeah, it's almost expected that we're. We're the strong leaders of our family or we're the protectors. And if we cry, that's weak. You can't do that. Like, that's not what a man does.

So I think that kind of absolutely gets lo that as well.

So, you know, you're absolutely right. I was talking to someone at the gym the other day, and he said, hey, this is what we're going to be talking about on. On my podcast.

And the comment that. That I got from him was when he was being brought up, when he cried, the response was big boys don't cry. And as we get older, bigger boys don't cry.

And it's that simple.

Yes, they do.

Well, Mad Dog, we've already talked about the house singer. Yes, that's right. Sorry. Before we get into too, too much, you have Bob about sharing awareness of men's mental health.

Now, was there one coach or something that kind of drove you to say, hey, this is something important. I can't let this slip. So each and every time I have an opportunity, I want to talk about awareness and how important this is to people.

Yeah, I mean, certainly it is important to me. It's.

It's something that I think coaching and just being involved in football around, you know, a lot of young men that are going through turbulent times in their life has just kind of taught me that it is important to make sure that we talk about this.

And when you see something going on in a kid's life, you know that you ask questions and not just, you know, are you okay today with where he can answer? Yes, I am. You know, very easy. But to ask questions that, you know, that provoke responses. Right. And then to be able to assess that.

So, yeah, there are tons of opportunities to deal with these things.

And I'm just going to kind of build on that one point that you made there, like, because everybody does it. Hey, how's it going? Well, I'm fine.

And the odd time I would actually let someone know how I was feeling, especially when I was having a bad day, but people don't want to hear that.

It's uncomfortable.

It's like, it's totally uncomfortable.

It is uncomfortable, I guess. But, I mean, I think the more and more you ask these questions and the more and more you have expectations to not.

You're not asking to hear, like, everything's great. You know, like, you know, you. If you're going to ask these questions, we should be prepared to, to, to hear answers. Right?

And, and, and when, when you hear an answer where somebody is. Is obviously not having a good day, then it's. I think that's the point of conversations, just to scratch the surface of, hey, how are you?

You know, and when you're in that type of situation, it's, it's to dig a little deeper and to make sure people around here are okay. So, going back to your question, yeah, I had lots of coaches that were super influential in me and Coach Dobie.

I played at the University of Manitoba for a long time, coached with.

With Coach Dobie there for a number of years, and he certainly taught me about people, about the importance of people and their relationships and just, you know, who, who they are. And so I think that always stuck with me and, you know, in my passion, as you say, to. To, you know, to. To make us aware of.

Of what we're going through and what other people around us are going through.

So when you're talking about Coach Dobie, we're talking about. And he doesn't coach there now, but of Manitoba Bison. And you played there for. And coached there for how many years?

And let's not kid ourselves, that man was somewhat of a legend as it came to coaching at the University of Manitoba.

Yeah, I mean, he, he coached for so many years there. He, you know, was super respected by his peers and pretty much everybody that came in contact with them.

And I think that's a testament to who he was and how he approached conversations with people. And that's always something that stuck with me, for sure.

That's one of the things that I do notice, the. That you have a natural ab. To basically talk to these young athletes and, and you can tell you care when you're, when you're talking to these.

I call them kids because, like, I'm just no man right now, but you know what I mean? But it's. It's like, I don't know how many times I've seen you have different conversations with these.

These kids just to make them feel at ease, because I know that we, we talked about it before. Some of these kids, when they, when they land here in Chilliwack, that's their first time away from home. And that in itself is.

Is not an easy feel, for sure.

Yeah. I mean, I like to think of them as, as young men, which they are.

Certainly some of their actions are childlike and we deal with those situations, but they are, they are becoming young men. Right? They are then. And 18 to 22 is such a crucial age in a young man's life.

You know, certainly that is a critical time where things go good or they go wrong for a lot of kids. And football being a positive for a lot of kids in that sense. So ye.

There's, there's a lot of, A lot of kids that come through and then certainly gives us opportunities to, to engage with that.

Well, you almost become the adopted parent at that point when they're, you're that, that figure of, of authority. So. Yes, coach. Yes, coach. And, and they just have that inherent respect, obviously coming up through the ranks.

But when they move away from home, who are they going to talk to if they're looking for somebody that, for guidance or, or mentorship? That's, that's you, right?

Yeah, no, absolutely. Like I don't have children of my own.

I have, you know, 80, 75 to 80 every year A.D. and that's something that, when I got into coaching, I didn't necessarily grasp the depths of that. Certainly I had coaches that I looked up to as father like figures. But, but when you're in that moment, yeah, you, you know, it's not X's and O's.

All the times, you know, you're getting a call at 3:00am from, from so and so who's dealing with a traumatic event, you know, who, who either doesn't have family back home or, or, you know, you are the source of family here for them. So.

Yeah, that's a role that I have certainly embraced it' with the, the family of football that we always, you know, is a word that we use in football all the time, but it is true, especially in these levels where you have kids coming from, you know, not only all over the country, but in some cases all over the world. Right. Like we have six international players that are very far away from family. So. Yeah, it's part of the, it's part of the process.

It's part of who you are as a coach and certainly part of the program.

Heavy cross the bear, though. Like, that's, that's, that's a lot, especially with those numbers.

Right.

So.

So 10 of them come to you at one time. You still gotta pay them all the same attention, so.

Exactly.

So kudos to you, kudos to your coaching staff and just building on what you're saying about the Whole family. How many times when that team breaks, do you hear family as a cheer as they walk off the field?

Yeah. I mean, family is, you know, like, it's something that we actually talk about. Like, what is family to you on the football field?

Like, it's one thing to certainly say, say yes, like, hey, family, right? And then we. We go about it. But, like, to me, it's. It's like, if I need you, like, if I need something outside of football or.

Or like, it's like, hey, like, I. I am calling because I need you. Are you gonna answer? Right? And like, and most of the guys on the team would. And, you know, if. If you need me, am I gonna answer? Right.

And if you are, then. Then we're family. Right? And then certainly we can. We can have success together.

We're going to actually revisit that later on, but I just want to switch gears just a little bit and just. Just kind of throw it out there. So why is it that these young men put so much pressure on themselves?

I mean, great question. I mean, I think a lot of them, you know, this is a stepping stone to get to where they want to get to. So the pressure to perform is always there.

When you're in a competitive situation, a competitive environment, you know, the pressure is always there in. In sports. That's why we do it. Right. Like, it's part of competition. So, you know, but. But also just in. They are in.

In their character and their development is their. Their person. Right. They're. The pressure to be successful at what they're doing, and what they're doing right now in their life is football. Right.

And so pressure is always going to be there in. In other aspects of your life. But I think pressure to perform, pressure to, you know, solidify your identity as. As a.

As a football player, I think is always there. And part of it.

It's such a light sport, you know, they don't need to be tough or.

No, no. Yeah.

That.

Talk about big. Can you imagine that? A team of. Team of 80s just standing there crying.

It happens when they lose a big game.

You know, I was going to say, you. You have to see that too. That's. You see the tears come out when there.

There's that playoff game and things don't go exactly the way that you would like them, and then it's hard to watch them cry. So you. You. You can't tell me that men don't cry. We see. We see it happen in those environments, for sure.

Yeah. I mean, I watched. I've I've been a guy crying on the field after a loss and heartbreaking games and moments, so certainly it's not about that.

We're, we're scared to share tears because I think you see it all the time in sports and big moments, big emotions. Right.

So is it always obvious when a person's suffering in one respect or depression? Is it?

Not at all.

No, not in my experience. I mean, certainly you could tell in some cases, but, but overall, no.

So is it, is it, is it fair say so you, you have a team of 80, or even for that matter, if you look at our kids, and we all know them very well, and I, I, and I would only guess that at one point, you know, your players inside are pretty good, but you notice that something's a little off. You're not quite sure what it is. But I would call that a clue in my old job.

So what, what do you do with that when you start to see those clues that something's, something's not right with that person? Maybe they're struggling with something. Son.

Yeah, well, I mean, I'm not, I'm not usually one to beat around the bush, so I, I generally just try to ask, you know, what's going on, you know, like, and if you get the generic answer, you just dig a little deeper. Hey, it's, you don't see yourself something going on outside because normally you're this guy on the football field or not seeing it.

So I ask, you know, and I, I, I, I think that goes back to what we talked about before.

Like, I'm a little, I'm blunt with it, and if people don't want to talk to you, I, I get it, but you're going to, to talk to you is my approach kind of in.

Their face, but for a very, very good reason. Yeah, yeah.

My, yeah.

What would you just give them a hug? They're mad dog. I am a hugger.

But, you know, like, my boys are very, you know, they're, they're big, burly men, but they're very sensitive. And if my oldest son, it comes out in his voice, he'll call me and I'm like, hey, bud. He's like, hey, dad. I'm like, sit down. Get ready for this.

You know what I mean?

So, but obviously that's family, so you're, you're dialed into it, it. But that times 80 would be challenging to, you know, because we're not doctors.

We, we, to your point, we try and say how, you know, is there something. And if they go no, I'm good. And take a walk. It's like, okay, there's, there's only so much you can do. Right.

But you just hope that if there is that underlying problem, that they take that opportunity to talk about it.

Well, I think that's a great point in the fact that we aren't doctors and I'm not trying to be a doctor. Right. So if I can get a snippet of what's going on, then we can maybe point you in a direction.

And I think that's an important part of the conversation. I don't have all the answers. We don't have all the answers. None of have all the answers.

But we can point you and you can help you and we can, we can get the ball moving. So.

Yeah, and I'm so glad both you made that point because I was going to bring it up that truly the whole point behind the series of these, these episodes is really to encourage the dialogue more than anything. And we are not healthcare professionals, but if we can encourage that dialogue, they're a lot closer to reaching out to those professionals.

So if we do that, that then we're going to hit the mark really. Well, thanks for that. I appreciate that. So we're told to pay attention to the signs.

But one of the things I will mention before, I kind of, kind of list a few things that are signs when someone might be having trouble is that, and again, you have to really know something before you can say, hey, well, this person's off. Because if I just mention the signs, they may or may not be a sign for one individual. So we really have to be careful with that.

Physical symptoms such as headaches, digestive problems or physical pain. Pain, that's a sign. Overuse of alcohol and, or drugs, usually that's, that's a telltale sign that something's going on there, for sure.

Anger, irritability or aggressiveness. Now imagine that aggressiveness on the football field. That's a hard one, is it not?

Yeah, I, I mean, I, I think there's a lot of things in there that are hard that, that come out on a football field that, that we celebrate in certain situations. So it's, yeah, it's tough.

Noticeable changes in behavior, move, mood, energy level or appetite. Difficulty concentrating or restlessness. Negative talk towards self. Now that one seems a little bit more obvious.

If you're always putting yourself down and you know that, hey, maybe that's a clue. Maybe we need to have a heart to heart. Not just, hey, how are you? I'm doing fine.

Okay, Have a nice day spending an excessive amount of time at work or on sports. Now, this, this last one, I. I've actually seen a couple people in the gym and I, and I, I look at them and they're there for hours and hours.

And you're saying to yourself, there'.

They're fighting some demon.

They're fighting something.

But, but again, like, I mean, when we talk about football and if that they're playing for the Huskers is going to bring them to the next level, you're going to see some of those, those young men in the gym for extensive hours, because that's part of the gig.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm going to rip the Band Aid off on this because we're dancing around this topic.

So the scarier part for me is when they seem fine and you can't see anything that's going wrong, and then they turn, take steps that they don't need to. Right. And that happened to us personally. My wife's nephew, he was, you know, great young man.

We knew he, you know, had some challenges, as everybody does, but he was with us on December 30, and, you know, we, we all hung out, everything was fine.

Next night, he, you know, went home, lived in the, the interior and went to the casino with his mom and his, his, his grandma and won money and all that sort of stuff. It was great. And then three hours later, he took his life.

And so, of course, my wife has this inherent guilt thinking I should have seen something, I should have. And it's like, no, I was there. No signs.

And I think that's part of the frustration is because, yes, if you see all those things, that's one thing, and you can help.

Yeah.

But when they take action and there's nothing that you had, it's like that you start thinking, did I miss something? Was it. Did I say something? And that, that guilt you start bearing. But it's not always as easy as something presents itself.

Sometimes I don't think it's ever easy.

And, and the suggestion is, even if you see one or two little signs whether, whether it means nothing or not, go ahead and have that frank conversation.

And, and, and if, if, Bob, you could teach more people to have those frank conversations and still that I think we're going to be on the right track for sure. But it's funny because my next question, when does it become real?

And you just mentioned it and ripping off the Band Aid, and I know that you, your coaching staff and the team have been kind of managing emotions with something very Similar in the Husker family. Adrian Francis, who. Who played for you for. For how many years?

Adrian was with us for two seasons and the start of a third. Yeah. Great kid. Yeah. I mean, yeah, like dealing with that for sure. I mean, ripped the band Aid off. Yeah.

I mean, he's a kid who, Who I gotta call this off season that he had. He had committed suicide. And that was a tough. Obviously a tough call.

But there were signs, you know, like, we're talking about these signs, and me and Adrian had talked multiple times about his mental health and how he was doing and productive things. And. And so ye can see a lot of signs. You can put in a lot of effort and. And you can think things are going great and. And they're not. But.

And they're not.

But. But that's the thing is like, you can't also hold that, you know, that. That weight of, like, it's, it's my fault. It's.

It's, you know, like, I feel, man, like there's a ton of emotions that. That go into that and having that, that phone call and knowing the effort that you did and then could you do more?

But you know, at the end of the day, like, you did put in effort.

Yeah.

With it, you know, people, whether you do or do. You don't have conversations, it can happen. So the, The. The one controllable thing that we have in that is that we can have conversations.

And so we don't know the result, you know, or. Or we can't hold ourselves for. For the result that we're always looking for. But. But we can do what we can do. Right.

We only can control so much. And it's. It's unfortunate that. And again, that's the importance of having this dialogue so that if someone is in that situation, they know who to.

Who to call, who to reach out to. And, and we don't want those stats to keep growing the way that apparently they are, for sure. But one of the things that.

And I think this is going to be so special, but your last home game, you retired Adrian's jersey. So how did that come about? How did that whole idea. And what was the thought process behind that?

Yeah, I mean, two things. Adrian was a kid who came from out of province. You know, his family was pretty far away. They live up north in Alberta.

So it was just a chance for us to a.

Recognize who Adrian meant, who he was and that character, what that means to our program and just being able to acknowledge that with the family and also for the family to Come and see his family and his home away from home.

It's just celebrating who he was and just acknowledging, you know, hey, here's a guy who meant something in the program, who the program meant to him, you know, and that was that part of it. And the second part of that was, you know, we're going to retire his number. His number was number 32.

And the message of that is that that number will always hang on our wall, you know. And what is that number for? Yes, it's, it's for Adrian Francis. He wore that number.

But it's also to remind us that, um, that we don't want to go through this again.

You know, I don't want that phone call ever again from a player in my program, you know, and so that's just a reminder for us to continuously check in whether a guy is good or not good. You know, we, we have 80 guys on the team, but, you know, you're, you're, you're close, really close knit group of people.

Again, I'm going to call 80 guys every day, but you're close knit group of people like you, you need to check second, you know, and not this year or next year, like, like as things move on. Right.

And then, so that's just a reminder to us and to the program and we'll always remind everybody coming into the program that it is important to check in on the people around you.

Did you find that the, the dynamic of the team. You said this happened in the off season.

Yeah, like his passing was in the off season. We just retired his jersey in this last home game.

Okay.

Did you. Is there more willingness for. Or do you see the players talking to each other about it or is it just because it's obviously raw?

I understand that, but you're just, I guess maybe hoping to your point that that visual reminder is maybe we should talk about something, you know.

Yeah.

So, I mean, Adrian hadn't played with us for a few years, so there were teammates of his that, that, you know, some of our older vets that had played a couple years or a year with Adrian, but there was a lot of new guys that didn't know him.

And I think that that ceremony, you know, and acknowledging what it means and, and what, you know, going back to family means to us, and we talked about that all week.

And so, so yeah, there's certainly guys that are talking about, you know, the need for, for closeness when, when it happened, when we got the phone call. I have two of my players that actually work with me and they're in the backseat of the truck when we got the call.

So it hit them, you know, just as hard. We were on speakerphone. It wasn't expected, you know, so. So it hit us all, you know, and it was family in that sense, too.

So, you know, conversations have certainly happened because of this and need to happen and will continue to happen.

That's great.

So I just. I just want to let you know, Bob, that the. The gesture about retiring Adrian's jersey meant so much to. To Connie and.

And her daughters, the Adrian's family.

And she sent me a message just saying how much she loves her son and honoring his memory by retiring his number and passing them his jersey to them was not only an amazing. They're so grateful and feel blessed of the opportunity to actually meet the Husker family. Really, really special. Really, really special.

Yeah, man, it was a tough. It was a tough night, but it. It certainly was, you know, special to them.

It was special to us because, you know, at the end of the day, wins, losses, starter, second string, you know, if you. If you wear the jersey, if you. You're. If you put it out there for the program, the. You know, you are family. And. And so it was a nice.

It was a nice ceremony and situation and obviously a tough, emotional day. An opportunity to. To share with the family and extend the. The bonds that football brings.

I think, you know, from a parent standpoint, there's got to be a sense of.

Of feel good knowing that he was involved in a great organization because, you know, you don't just do something like that for show it meant something. So that probably provided a little bit of comfort, I guess.

Yeah, we already talked about the signs, but in. In talking to Adrian's mom, one of the things she did say, and she's. She's questioning it. She's not. And we already talked.

She's probably feeling really about this, but it's. It's. The question was, why did he have to mask. So we're looking for the signs. And what Adrian did, he just hid it.

And that's an even bigger challenge if someone's kind of struggling. And. And I don't know how you overcome that, for sure.

Yeah, I mean, I think people have so many different reasons for why they. Why they mask it. And Adrian's. I'm not sure. I. I know in.

In conversations that we had and talks that he had, I think, you know, I think he took on a role that was. Maybe he felt like he couldn't. You like that.

And I don't know this is speculation and things like that, but it's, it's unfortunate when we, when we have to mask the feelings that we have and when they get to that point, like the mask has to come off at some point. Right.

Fair to say he was a quiet young man that probably didn't know how to share his feelings.

No, I agree. Yeah, No, I agree. He was quiet and, and probably didn't. Didn't know how to share feelings.

And I, and I know, Bob, you've already kind of talked about this a little bit, but do. How do you create that environment, your player, these young men that make them comfortable in sharing those feelings or when they're struggling?

How does that work? How do you kind of set that stage? I know it's a tough question, but let's go down that road because that's what we need to do.

We need to talk about how we do this.

No, for sure. I mean, I mean, I'm probably comfortable telling people what is going to help them because I myself avoid talking about my own feelings. I get it.

So when I see things in other people and I'm in a role where I, I can't just turn a blind eye or not acknowledge these things. Like, it goes with the territory.

If you're not doing these questions or trying to get this out of kids and get the most out of them in that sense too, then you're doing them a disservice. So recognition, I think, and how it's so comfortable is done a lot of things that put me in a.

Bad mental states and I've been in situations, I've lived, I've played football a long time. I had ups and downs in football, I had ups and downs in life. I'm willing to talk about things, I guess, and, or at least willing to acknowledge that.

I understand. And I think that is sometimes the biggest thing that, like, I don't understand exactly your scenario, but I understand that feeling.

No, and like, I don't have an answer, but I do understand that, that us having a conversation is a positive thing because I know that I feel positive. You feel positive. There's results there. So I guess that that's the, the why it's easy. I don't know if it is easy, but. But yeah, I have conversations.

It. It's funny how we are having a hard time having this conversation and we're not even talking about our feelings, we're talking about other people's.

But it, it's. It still feels awkward. Yeah, it still feels.

It's a.

Also, it's extremely frustrating because I don't think anybody would ever turn a blind eye to somebody if they say, this is what I'm feeling and this is what I think I'm going to do. I don't think anybody would ever not listen to that.

But when you, when there's no signs and, and everybody inherently want help, but there's also that feeling of helplessness that I didn't know I would have definitely said something. So it's. And then you throw drugs and alcohol in there.

So I've lost three or four friends that way, where they were normal, normal guys and everything was fine and they were dealing with a lot. And you add that to the mix and then, then it's just the coping mechanism there anymore.

And then that's sometimes why those decisions get made, which is unfortunate.

So the dialogue, the having the knowledge of what the signs may or may not be specific to these individuals and then continuing to check, especially in those circumstances where, you know, someone's struggling and don't, don't blow off a sign. Don't blow it off. Just make sure you take the time. I like, I like what you're saying, Bob. I really do. As far as I'm.

It's almost like you're going to make them accountable for their feelings and that's that. I think that's one way of making them manage those feelings.

Yeah. At least I'm going to try to open the door. Right. If you want to have that conversation, the door is open. And I think that is important.

You're not always going to get conversations out of it. But yeah, if, if you are willing to have a conversation that's one side.

Of it, then it's, it's interesting. You know, you can always hear about, you know, I don't have any daughters, which probably thankful for. I'm good with boys. They're.

They're probably a little bit simpler. But hear about, you know, I've got friends that have got teenage daughters and they're like, oh my God, they're roller coaster emotions.

And it's crying, laughing, crying, laughing. There's that extreme. And then you've got young men, men that are coming into manhood and they figure that, no, they can't show any of that.

So, you know, and that's a tough age range. Right. Because, you know, to come out of high school and you're supposed to. Now you're an adult, here you go.

And, you know, you might not have all the skills to cope. And then you're with, you know, 80 other guys that are big and strong and tough.

So yeah, it's not necessarily the easiest environment for these guys to open up, even though the opportunity is there.

Unfortunately, that that music is telling us that this episode is coming to an end, but this series is not because we're going to continue to encourage this dialogue about men's mental health. Somehow perhaps someone will be listening out there saying, yeah, I think I need. Or I am struggling and I can reach out to someone.

There's a couple things I do want to mention. One of them is again from Adrian's mother and he's. And she's talking about Adrian.

Well, he would know how they want the podcast and she's referring to Adrian. That was just me letting you know how I see that.

I know some may feel guilt for not reaching out or applying and that is okay as my son was forgiven and he wouldn't want his teammates to feel bad. He would want them to succeed and push forward. And maybe this is a part of it is to reach out during tough times.

Even if one tough day gets you go be with a buddy, not to get much into your own mind. I don't know. I tend to go all over the place.

And this is from Connie and we truly appreciate that Connie, because she's really saying that Adrian wouldn't want this to happen to anybody either. It's just unfortunate that it's happened to him. Any, any thoughts on. On that?

I think the only parting words that I would say is just talk. Like just start there, just talk that little baby steps. That's all you need to do.

You don't have to solve the world's problems in one sit down talking with friend. But just talk, holding it in, it does nobody any good.

Yeah, I mean I, I gotta second that. Like, and just listen too. Like be willing to listen, talk, listen, ask tough questions and expect tough answers sometimes.

And then, you know, ask light hearted questions and expect light hearted answers too. So yeah, conversation, talking, listening.

Thank you very much, Bob, for joining us on this, this podcast. It. It's. It's very important to, to everybody. Like I said, men's, Men's health is opening up.

That dialogue was always going to be a challenge, but we just have to keep pounding the streets and making sure that people are starting not only listen, but engage in conversation as well. Help is available. Speak with someone today anywhere in Canada. 988 Suicide Crisis Helpline.

Remember to take advantage of the moment before the moment takes advantage of you. To learn more about eWalkabout, please visit us@ewalkabout.com cat.