Shownotes
From Lake Tahoe on the Adjusted for Risk podcast, Ryan Nauman welcomes back Adam Patti, CEO of VistaShares, to discuss how innovation in ETFs is bringing sophisticated strategies to retail investors and reshaping portfolio construction. Patti shares VistaShares’ focus on building a small set of differentiated products, noting the firm launched its first ETF in December 2024 and has grown to over $2 billion in assets. They emphasize ETF benefits like transparency, low fees, tax efficiency, and intraday trading, while warning investors to “look under the hood” rather than rely on marketing. Patti outlines a durable, cycle-resistant portfolio approach built on diversification across equities, fixed income, commodities, real estate, and cash, and highlights three key ETF categories: growth equity, income, and downside protection. He explains VistaShares’ “bill of materials” process for Super Cycle ETFs, mapping supply chains and weighting companies by economic exposure to themes like AI, space, robotics, and defense, and previews future investor-focused ETFs tied to managers like Druckenmiller and Tepper.
Connect with Ryan Nauman:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryannauman1/
X: https://twitter.com/LkTahoeBadger
Learn more about VistaShares: https://www.vistashares.com/
00:00 Welcome and Setup
00:54 Meet Adam Patti 01:19
VistaShares Mission 02:36
Buffett and ETFs 03:57
Look Under Hood 05:35
Building Durable Portfolio
08:02 Concentration vs Diversification
11:26 Advisor Edge with ETFs
13:53 Marketing vs Philosophy
16:18 Next ETF Evolution
18:44 Staying Power Process
20:53 Bill of Materials Method
22:55 Whats Next and Wrap
Transcripts
Ryan Nauman Host Adjusted for Risk:
Hello, everyone, and welcome
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to Adjusted for Risk podcast
from the shores of Lake Tahoe.
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Investors often try to learn from
and emulate the best investors in
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the world, like Warren Buffett.
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It can be easier said than done, but
recent innovation within the ETF space
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has brought these types of investment
strategies to the retail investor.
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My next guest is an industry expert in the
ETF space and is going to shed some light
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onto the topic and talk about how ETFs
are transforming portfolio construction.
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Right, enough from me.
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I've already talked enough.
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Let's go ahead and bring
on the star of the show.
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I am very honored and excited to welcome
back for a second time Adam Patti.
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Adam is the CEO at Vista Shares.
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Adam, thank you so much
for coming on the show.
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It's an honor to have
you on for a second time.
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I'm glad I didn't scare you
away after the first one.
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Can you please tell us a little bit
more about yourself and Vista Shares?
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Adam Patti CEO VistaShares:
I'm thrilled to be here.
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Thank you very much.
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It's always a pleasure.
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Yeah, Vista Shares, we got…
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We're, we're a young company.
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We launched our first
ETF in December of 2024.
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We're already above 2 billion
in assets, so we've we've done
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quite well and very fortunate to
be involved with this initiative.
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What we're trying to do is really
just build better products.
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We- we're never gonna be
everything to everybody.
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We're never gonna have
hundreds of products.
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We're trying to really create
solutions for investors to
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improve their portfolio results.
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It's, maybe a little
old-fashioned, but that's our goal.
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And we put a lot of work into the types of
strategies we bring to the to, to market
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Ryan: And that's fantastic.
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That's great growth.
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: Yeah
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Ryan: in two years?
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That's pretty fantastic.
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Doing
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: even,
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Ryan: great things.
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares:
Like a year and a half.
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I don't know, a year and a half.
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Yeah, no, really, it's
r- really fortunate.
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And look it's about having good products.
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When you have good products, it,
you gotta get the word out, but
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it takes a long time to do that.
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But once you do, hopefully you see the
uptick, and that's what we're seeing
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Ryan: Yeah, that's fantastic.
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And I like what you said is you're not
trying to do anything, reinvent the wheel.
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You're not trying to do it…
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You're just trying to do what's
worked and bring product that
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helps the end investor build better
portfolios, investment portfolios.
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Because at the end of the day, Adam,
that's what it's all about, right?
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So I love that.
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I talked about Warren Buffett.
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People are always trying to emulate his
investment strategy, learn from him,
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and he's consistently emphasized buying
great businesses at reasonable prices
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and holding them for the long term.
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Do you think if Buffett were starting
his career today, how do you think
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he'd view the modern ETF landscape
where there's so many new ETFs?
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Some of them, sorry Adam, there's some
ETFs out there that go way over my
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head, like I don't know what's going on
here, these single stock leverage ETFs.
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he still build a portfolio stock
by stock or would ETFs be part
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of that toolkit, do you think?
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: I think
ETFs would certainly be there to provide
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exposure to sectors or themes that perhaps
he wants to gain exposure to before he
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finds his next acquisition or investment.
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But certainly Warren Buffett is known
for, being an incredibly talented
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value investor who has very severe
metrics that he follows before
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making an investment in a company.
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So I don't see that changing.
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But certainly ETFs are great
exposure vehicles for him or anybody.
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And so I think that's, And look, ETF
market is y- it's complicated, right?
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There's many different flavors
like you just mentioned.
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There's trading strategies or investment
strategies, and within each one of
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those categories there are many flavors.
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So the most important thing for investors
is to really look under the hood.
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Don't look at the name of the fund.
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Look what's in the portfolio, and that's
really why we started Vistashares.
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My partner, John McNeil who was a
former president of Tesla, he was
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trying to get exposure to AI, and he
looked at all the AI ETFs out there and
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said, "Wait a minute, this is not AI.
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This is Mag 7, or it's
consumer-facing software companies
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that may be implementing AI.
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But that's not how you
get exposure to AI."
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So that's really how
Vistashares really started.
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It's about looking under the hood
and building portfolios that actually
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represent what we're trying to achieve
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Ryan: I'm glad you brought that up,
Adam, bec- I say it a lot on this show
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and in content is you gotta look beyond
the name or even the description, the
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investment objective, and really look
into what, what's in that portfolio.
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And that's what's great about
ETFs more so than mutual funds.
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You can…
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That transparency is there, right?
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares:
Transparency is the key.
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Ryan: diligence
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares:
Yes, absolutely.
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Read the prospectus.
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Just dig in.
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Dig in.
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Do your d- do your research
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Ryan: Yeah.
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Because I feel as, especially now, and
we're gonna get into it shortly, p-
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some of these firms are very creative in
their marketing, very creative to help
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distinguish their products from others.
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So you gotta get through that
marketing and those terms to find
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out, okay what are they doing?
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Are they doing what
they say they're doing?
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And what are they holding?
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Are we really getting
exposure to AI, like you said?
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: Yeah.
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And does it fit into your long-term
plan as, in, in your portfolio?
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Because some of the products
are very hyper concentrated.
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You just gotta, again, going
back to it just do your research.
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Look under the hood
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Ryan: Yep.
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So going back to Warren Buffett, let's
say Warren came to you and Adam you
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to design a ETF portfolio for the next
decade, and it's not just outperform,
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but to withstand multiple market cycles.
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What core charac- characteristics
would that portfolio have and
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what lessons should advisors take
from that exercise, do you think?
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares:
That's a great question.
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What an honor that would
be for him to ask me.
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So that's an unlikely scenario for sure.
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But look, again, I'm old-fashioned,
so I think you gotta start with
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a well-constructed portfolio
that provides diversification
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in different market cycles.
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So you know you don't wanna
load the boat in any one theme
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or sector or equity sleeve.
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You wanna have equities, you wanna
have fixed income, you wanna have
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commodities, you wanna have real estate.
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You wanna have everything in there
to build the portfolio that's durable
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and that hopefully withstands market
corrections in certain sectors, right?
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If something's going down, hopefully
something's staying stable.
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You wanna have ballast
in your portfolio, right?
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So that's where the fixed income
is or some downside protection.
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So I, I think the start for anybody,
Warren Buffett or anybody, would
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be to put together that long-term,
well-diversified portfolio.
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And, have some cash as well to,
deploy against opportunities
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that you find along the way.
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So for a Warren Buffett, obviously he's
gonna be buying companies or investing
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in solid value-oriented companies.
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But for an average advisor or investor,
you wanna be-- you know, have a
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certain portion set aside where you
can capitalize on a theme, aI is
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an incredible growth opportunity.
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We launched today robotic space
and defense super cycle ETFs.
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All of those represent
incredible growth opportunities.
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Those are not majority
holders for your portfolio.
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Those are minority holders, right?
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So you know, you just gotta design
your portfolio for what you're
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wanting to achieve over time.
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Ryan: And that's why I
feel great about ETFs.
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Like you said, there's a…
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You can do a lot of different
thematic plays there, like you
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said, with the new ETFs you just
launched and the other you offer.
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A lot of options for different
thematic plays, whether it's
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long-term or shorter term.
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I'm really glad you brought up just
diversification and how important it is.
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I think sometimes we forget about
the importance of diversification,
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especially when are ripping higher.
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You've got the Mag Sevens.
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Like, why invest overseas or in
mid caps when you can just go
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Ma- Mag Seven or mega tech caps?
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Bill Ackman, he's built his
reputation on making high
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conviction concentrated investments.
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Most advisors, however, like you
said, are trained to broadly.
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How should advisors think about balancing
concentration versus diversification?
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And can ETFs provide an effective
way to express high conviction ideas
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without taking uncompensated risks?
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares:
That's a great question.
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First of all, diversification
benefits, run out after a certain
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amount, number of holdings, right?
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Having five hundred holdings,
across your portfolio versus having
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fifty is not necessarily helping.
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And there's been a lot of research
on that, so I'm not gonna rehash that
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'cause that's not really my expertise.
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But I think ETFs are exceptional
opportunity-- provide exceptional
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opportunities for different
exposures that, that don't
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cause the d- the concentration
risk that you're talking about.
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Look, if you have, equities, there's
nothing wrong with having, a concentrated
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equity single stock position, right?
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Having, fifteen, twenty, twenty-five
different securities that you
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have high conviction around
as part of your equity sleeve.
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But if you're looking at the AI or
electrification or robotics or whatever
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it is, certainly if you have the skill and
time and-- to do the research, which most
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pe-people don't pick some stocks, sure.
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But most people don't have that
expertise and the time to monitor it
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and really understand the companies.
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So ETFs provide, a great
way to get that exposure.
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But again, even there, you wanna look
under the hood and make sure that
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they hold the types of securities
that you're trying to get exposure to.
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Ryan: Yeah, that's a great point.
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And Adam, stock picking's really hard.
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It's really hard.
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It's hard, like you said, you have
to have time, you have to know
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what you're looking for, you wanna
know what you're investing in.
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That's why I don't hold
any individual stocks.
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I just let the pros, like you, all the
smart people, invest- pick the stocks
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and what they're good at, and I'll invest
it, in them, versus the individual.
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Because it's hard
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: It is
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Ryan: time-consuming
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: And even if
you know what stock to buy, it there's
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an entry point and an exit point.
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When I used to trade stocks, and I'm not
a stock trader at all I'm very bad at
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it I always seemed to know how to get
in, but I never knew how to get out.
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Oh, it's gonna keep…
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It's down, but it's gonna keep going.
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It's just not a game that I can play.
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Certainly, some people can.
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I prefer well-diversified portfolios
and, looking at what the experts do.
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Like you mentioned Bill Ackman.
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We're big fans of Bill Ackman, as and
Stanley Druckenmiller, and David Tepper.
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These are some of the best
stock pickers in the world.
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And when you go into a more of a
stock picker's market like we're
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in now it's, it makes sense to
try to, harness their intellect
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Ryan: Yeah, I completely agree.
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Let them do it.
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Let them do it.
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I'll pay that extra fee
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: Yeah.
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Ryan: their professional experience
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: Sure
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Ryan: S- and once you buy a stock, I
don't think people realize how hard it is.
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Like you said, that getting
out of it removing that
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position, be emotional, right?
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You'd be like I bought this one, this…"
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And do I really wanna sell it?
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares:
That's the killer.
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The emo- the best traders, investors
always talk about not having that
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emotion, but they f- you know,
they have it as well in some cases.
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Stanley Druckenmiller, there was something
on X I saw, he was talking exactly
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about that topic, about how hard it is
to divorce yourself from the emotion
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to be able to, be a great investor
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Ryan: Yep, exactly.
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So we know the wealth management
space advisor, it's very competitive
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right now, just like in the ETF space.
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Very competitive.
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Advisors, they're increasingly
expected to deliver institutional
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quality portfolios while also managing
taxes, fees, and client behavior.
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They've got a lot to manage just
on the investment management side.
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Where do you believe ETFs provide
the greatest competitive advantage in
243
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helping advisors improve client outcomes?
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares:
Look, going back to, what ETFs
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have always been great at, right?
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Low fees, transparency,
intraday trading, right?
247
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Tax efficiency, right?
248
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ETFs just have certain structural
benefits above mutual funds, which
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is why ETFs have, usurped mutual
funds as the preferred vehicle
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for most investors at this point.
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I think ETFs should be a core part
of anyone's portfolio, look, why not?
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If you're buying the
S&P 500, buy VOO, right?
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It bought, what is it,
three bips, five bips?
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I don't even know what it is now.
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It, it gives you that exposure and so in,
so inexpensively and in a tax efficient
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manner that it's silly not to build
your portfolio using these building
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blocks and then, you use other types
of ETFs to round out your exposure.
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Provide exposure to places or corners
of the market that you want e-
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exposure to again, inexpensively.
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Even 75, 95 bips, people say, "Oh,
that's expensive," but not really.
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If you're getting, y- a special
exposure or a special outcome it
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costs money to build those exposures.
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It's a lot cheaper than
mutual funds for sure.
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Ryan: Yeah, and Adam, I remember back,
dating myself here, aging myself,
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back when I started, 75 bps isn't very
expensive compared to what it was 20 years
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ago to get good investment management.
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: Absolutely.
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Yeah, and there's a lot of sophisticated
strategies out there that investors
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can now get exposure to in an ETF
structure for not much in the fee realm.
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Like our income products, right?
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These are sophisticated option strategies
run by experts actively on a daily basis.
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It's an expensive infrastructure hit
to build that type of team and to be
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able to run that kind of strategy.
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But hopefully you're paying for something
good and you're getting what you expect.
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Ryan: Yeah, exactly.
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And years ago when I started,
those strategies weren't available.
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They were only available
for the ultra-high net worth
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institutions, endowments
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: Absolutely
280
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Ryan: on.
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So let's go there for a second.
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You- there are a lot of new strategies out
there, like you said, income strategies,
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option overlay strategies, you name it.
284
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A lot of new innovation there,
a lot of great innovation.
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There are now more ETFs available than
there are publicly traded companies.
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Let that sink in.
287
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I know we've mentioned it a
lot, but that's crazy to me.
288
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Each with, like we said, very
compelling marketing stories.
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Marketing pitches are
getting very creative now.
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How should advisors distinguish between
products built around lasting investment
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philosophy and those designed primarily
just to capitalize on short-term trends?
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"Hey, this is trending.
293
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Let's go ahead and offer a product,"
versus really thinking about,
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that lasting investment philosophy
like you said at the beginning
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Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: Look,
the ETF issuers, yeah, ETF issuers are
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notoriously good marketers for sure.
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The whole industry is.
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And, you, it's hard to
differentiate yourself.
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So you kinda have to figure out a
way to get in front of people and
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build buzz around your products.
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But the key for us is education.
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00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,620
So if your ETF issuer that you're buying
products from is not providing you deep
303
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education on every one of their strategies
what it is, how it runs, how to use it,
304
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what it does to your portfolio, then
you shouldn't be buying that product.
305
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Because, the issuer of the ETF
should be spending the time and the
306
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money to build out a very robust
educational platform for advisors.
307
00:15:19,970 --> 00:15:23,220
And it's just, that's how you get
smart on the strategies, right?
308
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Do use their research, but then also
do your own just to make sure you're,
309
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again, you're getting what you expect.
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Ryan: I'm a big fan of education
and it's transparency too.
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If the ETF issuer is not willing to help
you and get into the weeds and educate
312
00:15:39,377 --> 00:15:44,727
you on some of these new, then do you
really want to, invest with that firm?
313
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Because the key is transparency also.
314
00:15:48,308 --> 00:15:48,718
Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: Absolutely.
315
00:15:48,718 --> 00:15:50,758
It's critical, absolutely critical.
316
00:15:51,148 --> 00:15:54,098
They should have people that can get on
the phone and talk about the investment
317
00:15:54,098 --> 00:15:55,968
strategy, get down into the portfolio.
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And look, most people, most
firms have that, but many don't.
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They just throw a fling.
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I call it the fling and
pray strategy, right?
321
00:16:02,748 --> 00:16:05,028
Just you fling a bunch of stuff
out and that, as an issuer and
322
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you're praying that it works.
323
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That's not our strategy.
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Never been.
325
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But, look, it works for some
what are you gonna say about it?
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Ryan: Yeah, exactly.
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You're exactly right.
328
00:16:14,799 --> 00:16:16,689
It goes back to that
marketing, I don't know.
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00:16:17,056 --> 00:16:17,426
Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: Sure, sure
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Ryan: we, the ETF space we've talked
about has evolved greatly over the years.
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We've gone from passive index f-
VO, SPDRs, very vanilla index ETFs,
332
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to smart beta, active management.
333
00:16:32,279 --> 00:16:37,039
Now, those increasingly sophisticated
ETF strategies that you've mentioned.
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What do you believe is the next major
evolution in ETFs over the next five
335
00:16:42,089 --> 00:16:47,589
years, and how should advisors prepare
their portfolios today for this evolution?
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00:16:51,238 --> 00:16:53,568
Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: Watch us
and I think the products that we're
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bringing out are really in that realm.
338
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But, the way we look
at it is pretty simple.
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If you look from an advisor's perspective,
from a portfolio construction perspective,
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00:17:02,508 --> 00:17:04,228
it really comes down to three categories.
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00:17:04,598 --> 00:17:08,028
There's growth equity, there's
income, and downside protection.
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00:17:08,268 --> 00:17:12,518
Those are the three categories that,
at least I believe, are the most
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important for portfolio construction.
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And that's where we're gonna be focusing
our time and, we'll be bringing out a s-
345
00:17:18,478 --> 00:17:22,948
again, not a lot of products, but several
products to address, make sure that
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we are firmly committed to each one of
those three leg, three legs of the stool.
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00:17:27,338 --> 00:17:30,608
Because, that's what you need in different
market cycles, particularly when the
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volatility has been like it is, right?
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00:17:32,338 --> 00:17:33,858
You can't all be in growth equity.
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You wanna have balance in your portfolio.
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You wanna have downside protection.
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00:17:36,898 --> 00:17:40,378
And, and income is no longer
a retiree's game, right?
353
00:17:40,378 --> 00:17:43,498
It's young investors looking
to stack dividends and build
354
00:17:43,508 --> 00:17:45,008
up a nest egg over time.
355
00:17:45,008 --> 00:17:49,058
So income has become very important
to a very broad set of investors and
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you need to have products that appeal
to them and that they understand
357
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Ryan: Yeah, it's fantastic.
358
00:17:54,683 --> 00:17:57,513
I'm really glad you brought
up downside protection.
359
00:17:57,983 --> 00:17:59,473
We do a lot of research here.
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I do…
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00:17:59,943 --> 00:18:04,883
i'm a firm believer in that's a true
risk of investing, is losing your money.
362
00:18:05,103 --> 00:18:07,973
Give me all the upside
volatility you want, Adam.
363
00:18:08,013 --> 00:18:11,433
Standard deviation, give
me the upside volatility.
364
00:18:11,463 --> 00:18:13,193
It's protecting the downside.
365
00:18:13,993 --> 00:18:19,033
hearing more and more products that are
focusing on limiting downside protection.
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00:18:19,043 --> 00:18:22,523
I love that you guys are doing the
same thing because at the end of
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00:18:22,533 --> 00:18:27,073
the day, to me, that's a real risk
of investing, is losing my money.
368
00:18:27,728 --> 00:18:28,318
Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: Absolutely.
369
00:18:28,768 --> 00:18:32,668
Y- and people, a lot of times they'll
lock in their gains and then, or lock
370
00:18:32,668 --> 00:18:36,208
in their losses, I'm sorry, by panic
selling, and you never can make that back.
371
00:18:36,208 --> 00:18:39,548
So it's better to have a well-diversified
portfolio and have that downside
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protection as a feature within the
portfolio to protect you, I think
373
00:18:43,701 --> 00:18:44,341
Ryan: Y- yep.
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00:18:44,381 --> 00:18:47,831
You mentioned those three
pillars that you and your team at
375
00:18:47,831 --> 00:18:49,901
Vistashare are really focusing on.
376
00:18:50,721 --> 00:18:51,471
How do you…
377
00:18:52,601 --> 00:18:54,401
we see so much innovation.
378
00:18:54,411 --> 00:18:58,811
How do you and the vet- Vistashare's
team determine what types of strategies
379
00:18:59,041 --> 00:19:04,971
have staying power are worth offering
in that ETF wrapper than just chasing
380
00:19:04,971 --> 00:19:06,841
a trend and be like, "You know what?
381
00:19:07,171 --> 00:19:07,981
Let's go here.
382
00:19:07,981 --> 00:19:09,411
That's what the industry's going."
383
00:19:09,741 --> 00:19:12,441
How do you determine
what has staying power?
384
00:19:12,482 --> 00:19:14,912
Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: We're a
little boring and old-fashioned, frankly.
385
00:19:14,912 --> 00:19:17,562
We, we talk to advisors,
we talk to investors.
386
00:19:17,562 --> 00:19:20,022
It's really n- not any
more complicated than that.
387
00:19:20,442 --> 00:19:23,102
We talk to a lot of advisors
and investors, and we try to
388
00:19:23,102 --> 00:19:26,182
understand what their needs are,
where the holes are in the market.
389
00:19:26,422 --> 00:19:29,192
What would help them get
better portfolio outcomes?
390
00:19:29,192 --> 00:19:31,902
What products out there they
are interested in but are
391
00:19:31,912 --> 00:19:33,922
n- not constructed properly.
392
00:19:34,222 --> 00:19:36,412
We're never gonna be first
to market in anything.
393
00:19:36,492 --> 00:19:37,182
And that's okay.
394
00:19:37,232 --> 00:19:40,872
In the old game in ETFs was you had to be
first to market, you get all the assets.
395
00:19:41,262 --> 00:19:42,402
We're in it for the long term.
396
00:19:42,432 --> 00:19:46,992
So look, when we launched AIS, our
first ETF, in December '24, we, we were
397
00:19:46,992 --> 00:19:49,362
probably the 23rd AI ETF out there.
398
00:19:49,362 --> 00:19:51,632
And everyone said, "What are
you doing launching an AI ETF?"
399
00:19:51,632 --> 00:19:52,262
I said, just watch.
400
00:19:52,512 --> 00:19:53,452
Ours is very different.
401
00:19:53,772 --> 00:19:54,912
It's constructed differently.
402
00:19:54,922 --> 00:19:55,812
It's managed differently.
403
00:19:55,812 --> 00:19:56,872
It performs differently.
404
00:19:57,182 --> 00:19:58,512
And it's almost $1 billion now."
405
00:19:58,522 --> 00:19:59,552
It's, that's…
406
00:19:59,552 --> 00:20:02,782
Y- and look, we, I'm not gonna say we're
gonna replicate that success across
407
00:20:02,782 --> 00:20:08,122
every product, but it succeeded because
it is di- completely differentiated
408
00:20:08,132 --> 00:20:09,612
from what is currently out there.
409
00:20:10,022 --> 00:20:13,492
And bec- the reason why it's
differentiated is because we designed
410
00:20:13,492 --> 00:20:15,472
it to the needs of investors.
411
00:20:15,762 --> 00:20:18,762
We're not just in a back room saying,
"Let's put together an index using
412
00:20:19,002 --> 00:20:21,762
SIC codes and slap it together and
call it something and bring it out."
413
00:20:22,152 --> 00:20:25,932
It's, we talk to people, we construct
something, we bring it out to people,
414
00:20:25,932 --> 00:20:29,612
we get feedback on it, we come
back, and that's a long process.
415
00:20:29,612 --> 00:20:31,302
It could take us a year
to develop a product.
416
00:20:31,302 --> 00:20:34,302
Look, the products we launched
today, space, robotics, and defense
417
00:20:34,302 --> 00:20:37,892
ETFs, three of them, none of them
are even close to first to market,
418
00:20:38,172 --> 00:20:41,602
but they all use our proprietary,
patent-pending bill of materials process.
419
00:20:41,862 --> 00:20:44,732
It's all managed by our investment
committee made up of some
420
00:20:44,732 --> 00:20:48,522
of the global luminaries in
technology and those technologies.
421
00:20:48,832 --> 00:20:51,052
And that is what we
believe differentiates.
422
00:20:52,033 --> 00:20:53,143
Ryan: Yeah, it's fantastic.
423
00:20:53,143 --> 00:20:56,263
And like you said, can you tell
us more about that strategy real
424
00:20:56,263 --> 00:21:00,013
quickly, your investment strategy
and building it you built that
425
00:21:00,033 --> 00:21:02,333
you've used across all your ETFs?
426
00:21:02,482 --> 00:21:03,362
Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares:
Yeah, so we have different…
427
00:21:03,362 --> 00:21:05,532
So what I'm referring to
is our Super Cycle ETF.
428
00:21:05,702 --> 00:21:08,742
So we use something called
our build materials process.
429
00:21:09,082 --> 00:21:14,892
So instead of creating a cap-weighted,
SIC code-driven i- index, what we're doing
430
00:21:14,892 --> 00:21:19,002
is when we attack a, what we call a super
cycle, which is a, what we believe is a
431
00:21:19,002 --> 00:21:24,582
long-term, technology-driven, fundamental
disruptive trend that's gonna last decades
432
00:21:24,992 --> 00:21:30,062
we will go into the market, we will talk
to experts in the field, and map out the
433
00:21:30,062 --> 00:21:32,732
supply chain in great exhausting detail.
434
00:21:33,062 --> 00:21:36,362
Once we map out the supply chain, then
what we do is we actually create a
435
00:21:36,362 --> 00:21:39,022
build of materials for that product.
436
00:21:39,042 --> 00:21:41,602
But using AIS, our AI ETFs.
437
00:21:41,982 --> 00:21:45,552
We're mapping out the supply chain for
AI data centers and semiconductors.
438
00:21:45,592 --> 00:21:49,192
And then what we do is we l- overlay the
bill of materials to try to determine
439
00:21:49,462 --> 00:21:53,522
how important each segment of the supply
chain is a- from an economic perspective.
440
00:21:53,522 --> 00:21:57,492
Cooling in an AI data center, how
much of a, how much of every dollar
441
00:21:57,492 --> 00:22:00,042
is going into cooling systems,
and that's how we weight them.
442
00:22:00,582 --> 00:22:03,772
Then we go in and we look at all, all
the companies, and we scrub through
443
00:22:03,772 --> 00:22:06,942
their financials to make sure that
they're getting a significant portion
444
00:22:06,942 --> 00:22:09,692
of their revenue from the actual theme.
445
00:22:10,062 --> 00:22:12,542
For cooling for instance, we don't
care about cooling companies,
446
00:22:12,542 --> 00:22:15,182
we don't care about c- cooling
companies that are in data centers.
447
00:22:15,442 --> 00:22:19,342
We only care about cooling companies
that are serving AI data centers.
448
00:22:19,352 --> 00:22:22,832
So it's an exhausting analysis.
449
00:22:23,162 --> 00:22:23,942
High value.
450
00:22:23,962 --> 00:22:26,132
Hedge funds have done stuff
like this for many years.
451
00:22:26,522 --> 00:22:28,412
Nobody in the ETF market does it.
452
00:22:28,422 --> 00:22:31,612
It's too, i- it's too
time-consuming and expensive.
453
00:22:31,952 --> 00:22:33,542
But that's how we build our products.
454
00:22:34,555 --> 00:22:37,795
Ryan: And it distinguishes your
products from others, like you said,
455
00:22:37,795 --> 00:22:39,505
which is very important in this space.
456
00:22:39,605 --> 00:22:44,105
Like you said, nobody else does it
because of the resources, but that's what
457
00:22:44,105 --> 00:22:46,015
makes you guys special in your products.
458
00:22:46,015 --> 00:22:49,375
And otherwise you don't have
that like you said, it just goes
459
00:22:49,385 --> 00:22:53,855
back to marketing probably when
getting your products out there
460
00:22:54,156 --> 00:22:54,846
Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: Yes, agree
461
00:22:55,959 --> 00:22:58,779
Ryan: Adam, the last
question here real quickly.
462
00:22:58,839 --> 00:23:01,809
Who's next on your list
after Buffett and Ackman?
463
00:23:02,184 --> 00:23:03,611
Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares:
Oh, we've got Druckenmiller.
464
00:23:03,611 --> 00:23:06,194
We've got Druckenmiller, D-R-K-Y.
465
00:23:06,624 --> 00:23:08,934
We've got Tepper, T-P-R-Y.
466
00:23:08,984 --> 00:23:12,434
We've got quite a few on the
on the shelf ready to come.
467
00:23:12,434 --> 00:23:13,414
We've covered off…
468
00:23:13,804 --> 00:23:16,604
We didn't cover off all the major
hedge fund guys or investors.
469
00:23:16,604 --> 00:23:20,684
What we do is we identify those that,
to your point earlier, take long-term,
470
00:23:20,684 --> 00:23:25,084
high-conviction, concentrated positions
and hold, long holding periods.
471
00:23:25,084 --> 00:23:29,214
So those are very suitable to
the ETF structure 'cause we don't
472
00:23:29,214 --> 00:23:30,614
want a lot of trading daily.
473
00:23:30,884 --> 00:23:33,644
We also don't want offsetting
positions in the portfolio where
474
00:23:33,674 --> 00:23:36,674
it looks like they're heavy into
security, but, they're actually hedged.
475
00:23:36,924 --> 00:23:40,944
Druckenmiller, Tepper, Ackman, of
course Buffett, and, we'll see what
476
00:23:40,944 --> 00:23:42,394
else we bring out in the future.
477
00:23:43,221 --> 00:23:45,241
Ryan: Maybe an adjusted for risk
478
00:23:45,526 --> 00:23:45,806
Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: Yeah.
479
00:23:46,196 --> 00:23:46,766
We, yeah.
480
00:23:47,096 --> 00:23:47,536
Why not?
481
00:23:47,546 --> 00:23:48,216
Let's do it.
482
00:23:48,316 --> 00:23:48,896
Let's do it
483
00:23:49,081 --> 00:23:49,601
Ryan: we go.
484
00:23:49,661 --> 00:23:50,131
Awesome.
485
00:23:50,141 --> 00:23:50,901
Sign me up.
486
00:23:51,166 --> 00:23:51,626
Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: I love it.
487
00:23:52,126 --> 00:23:52,606
Love it
488
00:23:53,341 --> 00:23:55,231
Ryan: Adam, awesome conversation.
489
00:23:55,231 --> 00:23:56,761
I knew it would be really fun.
490
00:23:56,761 --> 00:24:01,411
I love your insights into the ETF space,
what you guys are doing at Vistashares
491
00:24:02,391 --> 00:24:07,181
really exciting stuff, and just helping
financial advisors create better
492
00:24:07,181 --> 00:24:09,541
investment portfolios for their clients.
493
00:24:09,551 --> 00:24:10,441
Very important.
494
00:24:10,771 --> 00:24:14,481
So thank you so much for coming
on the show again, and it's
495
00:24:14,481 --> 00:24:16,071
always an honor and privilege.
496
00:24:16,081 --> 00:24:20,131
Where can our audience get more
information about Vistashares?
497
00:24:20,414 --> 00:24:23,094
Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: please
go to w- our website, vistashares.com.
498
00:24:23,114 --> 00:24:27,074
We have got a research section with a
ton of different research reports, really
499
00:24:27,074 --> 00:24:29,074
well done and very heavy duty stuff.
500
00:24:29,314 --> 00:24:32,324
We're upgrading our website this
summer, which is gonna have a real,
501
00:24:32,324 --> 00:24:34,404
a n- renewed emphasis on research.
502
00:24:34,644 --> 00:24:36,834
That's probably in the next month
or two we'll have that launched.
503
00:24:37,144 --> 00:24:40,504
Check us out on X,
VistasharesX is our handle.
504
00:24:40,734 --> 00:24:44,504
We try to put up real research where,
we do product marketing of course as
505
00:24:44,504 --> 00:24:48,324
well, but if you look at what we put
up, we're pretty, we're putting up some
506
00:24:48,334 --> 00:24:53,024
serious deep research on X, like six,
eight-thread type things with a lot of
507
00:24:53,024 --> 00:24:56,884
sourcing and things like that to get you
smart on some of these themes quickly
508
00:24:58,295 --> 00:24:59,575
Ryan: Yeah, that's great, Adam.
509
00:24:59,575 --> 00:25:03,405
And hey, listeners may not agree
with this, but I do actually do
510
00:25:03,405 --> 00:25:07,635
research before coming on these
calls, and you guys do a lot of great
511
00:25:07,645 --> 00:25:09,875
research education on your website.
512
00:25:09,915 --> 00:25:13,605
Kudos to you because I learned
a lot just going there too.
513
00:25:13,854 --> 00:25:14,404
Adam Patti, CEO VistaShares: Thank you
514
00:25:14,535 --> 00:25:18,045
Ryan: thank you, Adam, and thank
you everyone for listening to this
515
00:25:18,095 --> 00:25:20,325
episode of Adjusted for Risk podcast.
516
00:25:20,375 --> 00:25:23,285
You can watch all of our other
episodes on YouTube, and wherever
517
00:25:23,285 --> 00:25:25,625
else you catch your podcasts.
518
00:25:25,725 --> 00:25:29,865
Lastly, p- please be sure to like
and subscribe to those channels
519
00:25:29,865 --> 00:25:31,285
and give us a follow on LinkedIn.
520
00:25:32,225 --> 00:25:34,605
you very much and have a
great rest of your week
