Anji Miller is Senior Partner for Academic Engagement at healthcare charity LifeArc. LifeArc help turn great research into real-world healthcare products – from bench to bedside.

Sarah and Anji talk about

1. Trusting her instincts, even when others didn't understand her career choice
2. Embracing opportunities and making the next best move
3. Why she is a passionate advocate for mentoring, EDI and STEM initiatives
4. Seeing the impact of her work on patients and the people she has supported

Find out more

1. Read the show notes and transcript on the podcast website
2. Connect with Anji on LinkedIn
3. Find out about LifeArc

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But the thing is, academia was, intellectual

challenge, academic freedom.

You do what you want, you publish, and then you've got someone

else talking to you about, okay, intellectual property, patents, you

don't disclose, and these terms that they're thinking like, what the hell?

But I never had a mentor for myself until early this year.

And it is fantastic.

I've always advocated for it, but you help others and you just end

up not having one for yourself.

So regardless of socioeconomic background, your ethnic background,

anything, gender, anything, it is where you have the opportunity to

be the best version of yourself, and you are encouraged to do that.

Hello there.

I'm Sarah McLusky and this is Research Adjacent.

Each episode I talk to amazing research adjacent professionals about what

they do and why it makes a difference.

Keep listening to find out why we think the research adjacent space

is where the real magic happens.

Hello there.

I'm your host, Sarah McLusky, and I'm delighted to introduce you

to my guest today, Anji Miller.

Anji is senior partner for Academic Engagement at Tech

Transfer Charity LifeArc.

with the wonderfully concise tagline from bench to bedside LifeArc focus

on helping turn great research into real world healthcare products.

With a PhD in gene therapy and a master's in intellectual property

law, Anji is perfectly placed for her role, which includes advising and

training researchers on things like intellectual property and patents.

Anji didn't have the smoothest start.

Careers advisors and family members were bemused by her aspirations to

become a scientist, but she persevered and found her stride at university.

This experience has made her a passionate advocate for mentoring, EDI and STEM

initiatives, meaning that the next generation will benefit from the role

models and support that she lacked.

We talk about self-belief even in the face of disappointments, making the

most of opportunities and seeing the real world impact of her work, whether

that's on patients or the researchers that she has trained and mentored.

Listen on to hear Anji's story.

Welcome along to the podcast, Anji, it is fantastic to meet you.

I wonder if we could start by telling me and our guests a little bit

about who you are and what you do.

Okay.

So I'm Anji Miller.

My role, my current role, the title is Senior Partner for

Academic Engagement at LifeArc.

LifeArc is an independent UK-based healthcare charity that's just

focused on getting great academic research from bench to bedside.

So my role has transformed over the time.

So my background is I'm trained as a scientist, so it is, and I,

for a long time I was a scientist.

And what I decided to do was use my scientific knowledge out of the lab.

So I helped get innovation from bench to bedside.

I'm that person that combines the IP aspect, the business aspect,

that goes beyond the publications.

So it is where I work at the intersection of industry, academia, but also over

time, because I like working with others and I like sharing knowledge with others

I also train others to do this as well.

So it's quite a nice, it's a nice role.

It's niche, but it, it's a nice role and it's impactful.

Yeah, I bet it is impactful that, I love that story of from bench to

bedside, that's just such a lovely kind of catchphrase encapsulates what you do.

So you say your role is academic engagement.

On a kind of day-to-day basis, what does that mean?

What sorts of things are you doing?

Who are you working with?

Yeah, it varies a lot.

A lot is working with, because I do a lot of the training and now really setting up

programmmes and that's globally to ensure that basically innovations, technology,

gets outta the lab and impacts society.

It could vary from, for example, yesterday I was on a panel talking about

STEM, talking about careers and the wide option that individuals who study

science have and this was to encourage individuals of underrepresented groups.

And, that was lovely.

But also what I do is I'll be engaging with groups and really

researchers from Sub-Sahara Africa through another fellowship.

And it will be adding that translational piece so that they understand the

business side of running their own group and their own project

to ensure it gets beyond the lab.

The currency of academia is publication.

But you need, there's another side to really ensure that it truly is impactful.

And that's that side really looking.

Can I protect anything?

Who can take it to market?

And how can they do it?

And how can I feed in?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And how do you go about finding these projects that you work on?

Do you go out and find them or do they come to you?

Most of the time it's where they come to me.

And it, it is where they may be, it may be a programmme that LifeArc is

a key player for, and it is where a key supporter of the programmme

and there's that translational piece that needs to be brought in.

So that's where they will come to our team and say, we want to ensure that

these researchers understand how they can translate their science, but also

having a look what infrastructure is required within wherever

they are that, that supports it.

So it is very much a collaborative aspect, but also a lot of the time it

could be researchers who are looking and thinking, what do I do next?

I'm here, I enjoy what I'm doing, but I want to have a look.

How can my career move along or how can I feed into doing something to

really ensure that those, those who need it, get the science that I have.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it could be talking about career paths.

It could be talking about just skills.

It could be just providing that additional voice that support, that

mentorship that's required for someone to really explore their passions.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And actually figure out, as you say, I think there's some people

get into research because they just love the research and they

love the kind of discovery of it.

But some people very definitely go into research 'cause they think I want to help,

Yes.

With this medical condition, or, actually do something

that makes a difference in the world.

But that journey can be a real mental shift, can't it?

To go from being in a university and maybe you're trying to get grants for funding

and for research and things like that, to then suddenly producing something that you

can get accredited and sell to customers.

It's a real shift, isn't it?

And I think life throws so many curve balls at you that you

do change, you transform over time.

And we live in a day and age where.

A career is not just one thing and you do that one thing until you retire.

Yeah.

You will mature and your skills will develop.

We are living in day and age where, gene therapy, which is my

background it was science fiction.

Not that long ago.

Now it's a reality, but we have to ensure that everyone can have access to it.

So I think as individuals develop their career and they mature, they

have different responsibilities.

Their drivers and their passions shift slightly, they, things that

happen and individuals impacted in different ways will really

shape what their ambitions are.

So sometimes they'll think okay, I'm really interested in this

and I'd like to combine it with.

Is that a thing?

Half are quite scared to ask the question.

Others are fearful on how everyone will perceive it.

And what I do a lot of the time is help those individuals to

realize it's not just a pipe dream.

It's something that can become a reality.

And just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Or you shouldn't pave the way for it.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely helping people to just see the possibilities, I think

so often as well, that, and just part of what this whole podcast is about is

helping people to see the possibilities.

Because particularly, you, when you're at school, it's really hard to

know what's out there in the world.

And then even when you go to university and you start to get a bit more of

a sense, but it's still you're very much shaped by the people that you

see, the role models that you see, the situations that you find yourself in.

And so it can sometimes be really hard to conceive of something

different and that's why that mentorship and advice is so valuable.

Absolutely.

And school visits are one of my favorites because children, there's no filter.

You get you get everything raw, and they are clever.

They feed in, they see every aspect.

They tap into your passions.

They can see that you are fired up when you're talking about whatever subject.

But also they will come in and they will ask you the questions that

even their colleagues didn't know that they were into this thing.

They just wanna know because they, they're learning.

This is when they absorb everything that you say.

So when I go in, I usually have a rough idea of what I'm gonna talk about, but

the minute I go in there and I start talking, I know that I'm gonna have

questions coming from every direction.

And it's fantastic because I know even from my experience, one good teacher

can really set you on a path for life.

Yeah.

And it really, or it can break you down.

And you will have so many challenges that, it's in your head that they were

told, you were told, you can never do this, or you are, that's not for you.

Yeah.

Rather than go for it.

Yeah.

And I think with young minds it's more of what you do and

what they see than what you say.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so is that your story then?

Was there a particular teacher that either encouraged you or perhaps

Oh gosh,

formed you in some other way?

I, coming from first generation British Jamaican um,

family, so I'm one, the first generation that was born in the uk.

My parents, they were very big on education and it was

where they just told me.

Do not, never set a limit on your ambitions.

So I, that was instilled in me and it was really where education is key.

That was, and I still carry that.

Education is key.

But even when they, they would ask, and you get these aunts and uncles

always asking, what do you want to do?

What do you wanna be?

And you say, scientists, you can see it clouds over where they're

thinking scientists, that's not quite doctor, it's not quite lawyer and

it, as it is with these backgrounds.

But my parents always, don't set the, don't limit yourself.

But I do remember, I, and this is why it's so important that we are very careful by

what we say to our young minds around us.

I do remember that when I mentioned that I wanted to be a scientist.

I do remember like having.

Like a careers teacher who was very dismissive about that ambition.

And it was almost as though one, now when I look back, it was that this individual

obviously didn't know anything about the career path, but also it, there was

nothing supported, nothing encouraging.

But I've spoken to so many.

Since then, and they've had the same experience and decades

younger than me, and they're still having those sort of experiences.

For me it was really where I think I'm the type of person because I've had so

many disappointments and knock backs.

It really, it does hurt.

And you do stay there nursing your wounds, but.

It does also cause something in me to rise even stronger and even more determined

to just, okay, this is what I'm going to do and I'm gonna find a way to do it.

I don't care what this person said or what they think.

I know what I want to do and I think it's best that I go down trying.

Rather than sitting there thinking, okay.

No don't go for it.

And it's always in hindsight, people say that, oh, why did you choose this path?

Why did you do these things?

Sometimes it's really where you took the opportunities that were there at the time.

It looks as though it's a carefully curated halfway, but it really was.

You were in the position that those were the best options.

Yeah.

So you made the most of them.

They turned out to be the best options, but at the time you

were really trying to navigate to whatever goal or whatever target.

Yeah.

So I would encourage anyone, when you have your dreams and

ambitions, don't hide them.

But also when someone is not supportive.

Do not take it personally, use that as the fuel to, to really carry on because

you know yourself better than anyone else.

And school, yes, you do spend most of your time there and you would hope the

individuals in charge of you see that.

But someone that you meet in a snapshot who's supposed to advise you on

something that they're ill-informed on is not gonna give you the best advice.

Yeah.

So it's really remembering that, and I think it's really.

We should always encourage each other to, to really just try.

Yeah, just go for it.

Yeah.

And I think that's the message that I try to give to others.

And I think one of the nicest things is when you see that you've spoken

to someone and they really do take it on board and you see them soaring,

you see them going from, one height to another, and they pay it forward

because they remember the generosity that, the advice that you gave them.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

And I think that leads us really nicely onto the path that you took then.

So you had this vision that maybe confused your family and the careers

advisor was a bit like, okay.

And you went and did it.

Tell us a bit about how you did it, what the steps were.

Yeah, the thing is, I loved school.

I come from a big family, so I'm used to being around individuals and I, I.

When I tell people this, they're quite surprised that I was painfully shy.

And it is sometimes I do, I talk a lot, but the thing is

sometimes I do go very quiet.

I love studying other people . But I loved being at school.

I loved learning from that early age, but also I enjoyed science.

At school, I, I enjoyed the lessons and everything, but I think

academically, when I look back the exams and how they, the exams were

set were not the easiest things.

I, when I really started to flourish was when I was at university.

And I, my first degree is in applied biology and it was a modular degree and I

remember thinking, wow, my parents were so happy 'cause I was going to university and

this is something I'd been talking about all the time on track to be a scientist.

And for them I think it was just really pleased that out of the kids, there's

only two girls and there's six boys, and it is where the, I'm going to

university and I'm gonna have a career.

I, for me, it was really where I started to come alive.

And I think it is where also I, that's when I started to have my own

voice, because you have to speak out.

There's no one else there talking for you, but I'm, I did an industrial

year, so a year in industry.

Six months in France and six months in Italy, and then working in the labs.

And I found that I had a natural ability of working in the labs.

I loved it.

Designing my experiments, having a main hypothesis that you're going

to prove and working towards that.

I did amazingly and I came back with renewed energy for my final year,

which I did very well in as well.

But I also realized that I liked the molecular side of things.

And I always, as a scientist, I wanted to, it was for me, the natural thing.

I'm gonna complete a PhD, but I was very ambitious in knowing

what I wanted it to be in.

And that was in gene therapy.

And at the time, gene therapy was very hot and you wouldn't

have PhD placements or anything.

So when I spoke to a lecturer, they did advise me and they said, this

is great that you know that you have a strength for it, but apply for a

master's as well as a backup, right?

Just in case you need more time.

And it worked out really well.

Cut a long story short, it is where I did find a lab.

We, and we applied for funding.

And I managed to do my PhD in cancer gene therapy at Imperial, but I had to take

a master's in human molecular genetics.

During the time when I was looking and sending out and turning down.

Also, at some point I did think, what was I doing?

Turning down PhD offers.

Wow.

Because I was going for the subject that I wanted to, by the

time I completed my PhD. I'd been in the lab for something like seven years.

And I knew that I did not want to stay in the lab.

I wanted to go further.

Yeah.

And it was an exposure to some of the technology that was protected in the lab

that I had, oh, what's this technology transfer innovation, what is that?

Because I knew I wanted to use what I had.

And continue building on it.

And essentially that's what I did after three Degrees, I went back and did a

Master's in intellectual property law.

Oh goodness.

And it was really one of the best things that I'd done that

everyone thought I was crazy for.

There was a laughter, there was a joke at home, the perpetual student.

But the thing is, it was really where it was amazing to, to

apply the way I approach things.

Bring in that legal aspect and ever since then it's, I haven't looked back really.

It's been working towards and roles involving, curating great translational

research to really ensure that they move further along that development

pathway to interventions that will be the next diagnostics and

therapeutics that we have today.

I can see why that combination of both the PhD in

the biological side of things.

Yes.

And then the masters in the intellectual property would make you a very

employable person in the knowledge transfer environment because certainly,

although there's another podcast series that I do called Academic

Adventures, and that's all about spin outs and startups and things like that.

And this intellectual property thing Yes.

Just comes up again and again.

Yes.

And again as one of the most challenging things about

getting things up and running.

Yeah, having that knowledge.

It's almost as though it's seen as the arch enemy to publication.

But you can have both.

If the strategy and timing is right.

Yeah.

So it, it does mean working very closely with the teams

and really gaining that trust.

Yeah.

So that they trust you, that yet they are gonna have that

publication, which they need to have.

Yeah.

But at the same time, for it to go further, you need to

really protect whatever's there, the intellectual assets within that research.

And you said, you mentioned back in the conversation when we were

initially talking about helping to inspire people on their career journey.

You spoke about the importance of mentoring.

Is that something that has personally been important to you?

This is the strange thing.

Sometimes I'll do a, I'm on a panel and we're talking about different

aspects, particularly women empowerment and things like that.

And someone said is it okay if I have coffee and you end up really informally

being a mentor for that person.

And I have formally joined like some mentoring programmmes and

one of the things I also run two fellowships, different types,

but they have the same mission of individuals with STEM backgrounds

to become innovation professionals.

And one of the big USPs is that mentoring aspect to get the mind

in the right shape and frame.

But I never had a mentor for myself until early this year.

And it is fantastic.

I've always advocated for it, but you help others and you just end

up not having one for yourself.

Yeah.

And it was just something that I said, okay, this is one of the things that

I'm gonna do for myself because I believe in lifelong learning, and I

work in the innovation space where you have to keep abreast of everything.

So one of the things I thought, okay, definitely.

I want to have this for myself.

And for me it was for a particular aspect to really feed in, in

is the strategy and plan that I have the optimal one for myself.

Yeah.

For others it will be where I'll bring in like a peer level

mentor, someone who has a lived experience and has tread that path.

And then I'll bring in someone who is an expert.

To really get that knowledge about whatever ecosystem

that person is working in.

But I do believe in doing and doing that, and I think it's something

that you can easily do within one conversation or an ongoing relationship.

Yes.

Yeah.

I think sometimes mentoring doesn't need to be a as structured or formal as

perhaps we think it might be, but yeah.

That's interesting that you've not had one yourself until this year, is it?

I know.

Was it just,

it's strange

it not finding quite the right person or,

I think it was, at first, it was something that I just didn't

even think about because I knew that to fulfill my role, this is what this

person needs, and my focus was on that.

It was only after a while thinking.

I could do with one.

And then it was the difficulty, how do you select the mentor and it, I believe

that it's not gonna be a mentor for life, although some relationships are like that.

A lot of the time it's that stage that you're in, that phase.

Or that particular need.

And I think it's different for each person.

The plan is gonna be very different for each person, but also the personalities.

For me I'm very outspoken and it is where, someone who is not going to accept

being questioned or why do you say that?

Or wanting to know more.

It's really, they're gonna feel as though I'm trying to pull things that they

probably feel uncomfortable telling me, but as a mentor, I hope that they would.

Yes.

That's what you want.

You want a little bit of, maybe not brutal honesty, but

definitely honesty from a mentor,

because when I do and also it's not that they're gonna

tell you what to do, but they're gonna open your mind so you think

Yeah.

And make your own choice.

And I think that's the important thing.

So even when I'm preparing someone for.

They're gonna have a mentor and they've never had one.

It is where I will outline and give them an idea and let them

know that this is a guide.

What you need is gonna be individual to you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you work on that relationship and you hopefully

it will work out, but if not.

Let me know and maybe that needs to be a change.

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

It sounds from the way you've been speaking, it sounds like the point

you're at now that relationships are almost more important in the work that

you do now than the actual science.

Would that be a fair thing to say?

It's not more important than, but they do go hand in hand.

And I think even to be an really, a good innovation professional, you will have

to have good relationships because you have to gain the trust of the researcher.

And in academia, there's a passion to that work that someone could be working

on that, that, that area for decades.

Why would they trust you with this, talking about this aspect

that, the structure is not quite fluid with regards to innovation.

It's changing now, but the thing is, academia was, intellectual

challenge, academic freedom.

You do what you want, you publish, and then you've got someone

else talking to you about, okay, intellectual property, patents, you

don't disclose, and these terms that they're thinking like, what the hell?

Yeah.

So you do have to have the relationship so that can happen, but

also when you're training someone to, to really be able to do this.

You have to be able to tap into who they are, so you have to be able

to communicate and also the needs.

I, I advocate a lot, whether it's for EDI or the profession, you

have to be able to communicate.

So it does change it slightly where you are not as hands-on as you were before

with being there and dealing with all the science, but you still have to

understand the science and you still have to under understand the needs.

So it, it really does start rolling in and as more things come in that

you're rolling into your role it does dilute each aspect because

it's a combination of those things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I wonder, it'd be lovely to hear about maybe one or two examples of projects

that you've worked on, in, in so much as, like you say, in intellectual

property, confidentiality in so much as you're able to say publicly.

But yeah, some things that really stand out.

There are, I've worked with amazing scientists.

Some were really well known.

Others in their sector, they are a amazing, they're the top dog,

but also amazing individuals.

And.

Those are the ones that really stand out the most because there's your job

and then that there's that extra piece.

And I, that's that relationship piece where they will say to you, Anji,

I'm thinking about blah, blah, blah.

And it's yeah, let's do it.

Let's make it happen.

I remember one of my first roles and that was at St. George's.

And it's a hospital medical school, and because it's a hospital medical school,

you get great translational research.

You've got the clinical aspect, and it is really where it's

moving away from the bench.

It's really getting to the patients, whether that's through

clinical trials or whatever.

And one of them was a really big consortium, and it was funded by some

of the top funders, but also one of the leading researchers in that area.

And I remember when I got this role, it was where they said, personally when

the director who interviewed me, she was like, it's gonna be really challenging,

are you sure you want a challenge?

And I said, yes.

Tell me about it.

Because she was really afraid that I was gonna run away from it.

It ended up being one of the most enjoyable things that I've done because

it was, I think, enjoyable because the researcher who I was working with was

such a humble person, but an amazing mind.

But what he was doing was gonna impact really, not just the global north, but

definitely the globe and everyone else in those areas that are underrepresented.

And there was a need that surpasses anything else.

And for me it meant also applying everything.

So I was negotiating agreements, working with external partners,

industry and academia, and then also really outlining, okay, this

is how we're gonna work together.

It was a massive project.

Yeah.

But it was amazing because it was the first time.

That I really could flex the combination of skills that I put together at

that time and know that it was gonna lead to something really impactful.

Yeah.

Other projects that come to mind, it's like even at LifeArc, dealing

with some of the tech because we work with and we support conditions to really

treating and addressing unmet healthcare needs in the rare disease space.

So these are populations that are not attractive because it's

a smaller market, small number.

Yeah.

A lot of the time to industry.

Where you can see and you understand the real needs, and you work with clinicians

who have clinics, so they see the patients on a daily basis, and you're moving that

technology closer to being something that's gonna be available as a treatment

That is hugely impactful because you can see the difference that you make

because for me, it's also talking about it and advocating for that disease area.

So it means if it may lead to more funding, it may highlight it so it's

more attractive for others to, to work in, but also the amazing work

that's being done by that group, that small community addressing it.

I think also it brings hope to the patient group.

Yeah, the patient voice is really important and it's something that

through my role, you get close to that.

And understanding really what it's like for a family it's, it's devastating,

but what they have to go through.

But you want them to know there's hope.

There are Yes.

Individuals working to really make sure that hopefully in, in time there will be

a treatment or may possibly a cure for whatever they're they are going through.

I think the last one in the most recent.

I say most recent is 'cause I still do it and it is, I talked about my

career journey from going from bench to using my science outside of the

bench when I just started and I started advocating for it over a decade ago.

But it is where there's no clear path for someone who wants to do

this and also it's not well known.

Yeah.

That you can, as a STEM graduate, you have plethora of roles that you can go into.

So me with my big mouth is yeah, I think we need to have something.

And luckily I was working with someone who was like, okay, let's, what we

gonna do what we gonna, and I designed the fellowship and it was the first

one of the two that I run also.

And it was for individuals with a STEM background who enjoy science

and are passionate about it.

They wanted to be scientists for a reason and regardless of how much

experience they have it is that they want to pivot and help get that technology

really to be becoming something that's gonna have real world impact.

And it means bringing in that business and legal.

Yeah.

And all those professional transferable skills that are required in that space.

And you do this through a year.

But I work with partners in the sector to deliver this programmme, and now it's

over nine years and seeing the individuals and it's one, one of them, the very

first one is open to everyone in Europe, but seeing the individuals forge their

careers and, they have, particularly in some of the spaces, it's the first

innovation office that's gonna be set up.

That's gonna address anything like that.

It is something that, you know when you're thinking Yes.

Yeah.

I wasn't crazy.

Yeah.

And sometimes, there's,

there is something that can come out of someone just saying,

okay, how is it gonna be?

How are you gonna do it?

And it does mean that you put a lot of work into it because for a long time it

was something in addition to my main role.

Yeah.

Now, luckily it's part of my main role.

It's, yes.

Yeah.

But it is something that I am hugely proud of because it will go on.

Yeah.

And individuals, the it's over, it's a hundred and something fellows on last

count, and they tap in and they feed into that programmme as peer mentors alongside

the expert mentors that I mentioned.

And it, it is something that.

When you're thinking, okay, I if this was my last day, I know that it's

something that I would look on and say, I'm very glad that I did that.

They did that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a lovely thing to be able to have in your portfolio

of things that you've done.

I do like to ask all of my guests on the podcast, if they had a

magic wand, what would change about the world that they work in.

If money and time was no object.

There's so many things.

I think because it's at the crux and from my lived experience, the

challenges that I faced in even trying to forge my own career as a black

female scientist, it's not been easy.

Particularly, you wanna step out and do something that when you're

describing the career, people looking at you, one half of them don't know

what it is and others are looking at you thinking really, they doubt it.

I think it would be that

we would live in a world where it's inclusive and rather than inclusivity

just being something that is, it's really an act that you do, it falls in

part in really as part of everyday life.

It's, yeah, really, truly it would be.

So regardless of socioeconomic background, your ethnic background,

anything, gender, anything, it is where you have the opportunity to

be the best version of yourself, and you are encouraged to do that.

And it would mean that.

You would have, you wouldn't have rare conditions.

No one is interested in it or, no one's even thinking, okay,

what about this population?

You would have individuals globally being able to become skilled and change

the world that they, they come from or they live in or they care about.

I think it would be ultimately a world where I wouldn't need the wand.

Yes.

Because it is where, or I'd use it on something else.

Yeah.

Because it would be fair.

It would be equitable.

Yeah.

And I think, in my world I see everyone.

I see the good in everyone, and I'll try and bring that out and I'll

try and really encourage them to take, to adopt that, that mentality.

And it's really where they adopt.

And when I talk to the young minds like my daughter, she knows

that I'm a staunch EDI advocate.

But the thing is also it's not just what I say, it's what I do.

Yeah.

And.

I'd like to a world where everyone just has that one thing.

And I think it would change so many things.

I think it really would, wouldn't it?

And that is an amazing vision.

I think perhaps to leave our conversation on that that world vision.

If anybody wants to find out more about the work that you do, get in touch with

you, where is the best place to find you?

Oh, they can find me on the LifeArc website.

But also LinkedIn.

Yeah.

It's, that's my Rolodex.

It's, it is where, and a lot of the time, messages and whatever,

and also to see what I do.

Yeah.

They can see for themselves.

But, yeah, hopefully I encourage someone somewhere.

Yes.

Yeah.

No, I hope so too.

I'm sure lots of people will be inspired by your story thank you

so much for taking the time to come along and tell us all about it.

It's been fantastic.

No, thank you for inviting me.

Thanks for listening to Research Adjacent.

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