Are you tired of feeling lost in the social media ocean, mimicking big accounts but never seeing real growth? Pat Miller chats with portrait photographer Jean Carlo Peñaloza to challenge the copycat mindset and reveal how you can build an authentic, thriving content brand that actually sounds like you.

Episode Highlights 🎤💡:

(06:16) - The lonely early stages of content creation and why persistence builds real connections. 

(12:41) - Why authenticity matters and how your true voice shapes your brand. 

(20:34) - How embracing mistakes helps you become a stronger, more confident creator. 

Connect with Pat Miller ⬇

LinkedIn | Website

Connect with Jean Carlo Peñaloza ⬇

LinkedIn | Website | Facebook | Instagram

Mentioned in this episode:

Imaging USA

I'm Pat Miller, and this is The Professional Photographer Podcast. Maybe this happened to you. You know what you should do? You should create content on the Internet. So what did you do? You started creating content, and you wanted your content to work, so you started following big accounts, and you found yourself sounding more and more like them. And then you wake up one day and you're not growing and you don't sound like yourself, and you want to throw the whole thing in the ocean. Sound familiar? How should we do it? How do we sound like ourselves? How do we follow a playbook that works? How do we create content? Well, our guest today is going to teach us how. Jean Carlo Penaloza is teaching a class at Imaging USA all about content creation. He's got a terrific podcast, and he's got some great thoughts on how to create content. That sounds like you. You really want to check this out if you want to be a content creator on the web. Jean Carlo, standing by. We'll talk to him next. Jean Carlo, welcome to The Professional Photographer Podcast. How are you today?

Doing great. Pat, how are you?

I'm great. Thank you for joining us on the show. I'm excited to learn about what you're going to present at Imaging USA at Nashville in January. But if someone hasn't had the pleasure of meeting you yet or hearing the show, tell them who you are and what you do.

Sure. Like many of you, I'm a fellow photographer, got certified through the PPA. That little mannequin, that little thing was definitely tricky. But, no, I do portrait photography. I tend to specialize in headshots, conceptual photos, and whenever I have the time. I love underwater portraits. Given the complexity that it takes to just try to replicate what you do in land, to do it underwater, I guess the challenge in itself is fun and serene at the same time. Along the way, thanks to Imaging. Surprisingly enough, the spark of creating a podcast came out, and The Outspoken Artist was born from the people that I met at Imaging. So, ironically enough, I met him in Nashville. That was my first Imaging. So it's like a sweet homecoming coming back to Nashville after so many years. So you can label me as a photographer, content creator, entrepreneur, dad, all of it. A lot of hats.

That's a lot of hats. And we definitely want to talk about Imaging. The class that you're going to present there. I want to share more about the show that you do, but when you talk about about all the different hats that you wear, it's a lot of different brands and a lot of ways to communicate who you are and what you do. And I know one of the things that you really believe in is building authentic brand of being real and true to who you are and what you do. So share with the folks that are watching your view on authenticity. When it comes to brand building.

Of course, I see it as the simplest solution not to complicate your life. Because with so many different brands that I have, like my photo brand, my video brand, et cetera, what I wanted to do is make sure that no matter where you see me, no matter where you interact with me, essentially you're going to get me. Whether it's talking about business, whether it's talking about personal life, I feel that whoever you present yourself to be in social media, on the Internet, you're driving the story. If you're not driving the story, then somebody else is going to drive the story. So for me, it's just easier not having to put a facade, not having to do something else. If you're dealing with me today, you're probably going to be dealing with the same version of myself, whether it's at Imaging, whether it's at an event. And I feel that it brings a sense of comfort, a sense of stability to clients, to people overall, because they're not questioning who's this person that I'm interacting with. They already know who I am.

That seems so simple. Why would it be otherwise? How come this is a concept that needs to be reminded? Because it is something that sounds refreshing and simple, and wow, we should all be doing that. We, why do we have to remember that that's how it should be done?

I feel that a lot of it has to do with the fact that we hear from so many different channels what we're supposed to be, what you're supposed to be doing. You're supposed to be posting this, you're supposed to be doing this, you're supposed to be influencing in this way. And quite frankly, I feel that, sure, that works. The data probably shows that it works. But is it really you? Is it really going to connect with the person that you're interacting with in front of you? Because one thing is to interact with people on social media, but when you're trying to make a business, when you're trying to make a living out of the art that you do or whatever it might be, fill in the blank role here, it's just easier to just be yourself and just be authentic. Sounds simple, but it's taken a lot of years to get there. It wasn't like I was always like this. There's been a lot of scaffolding that's been around me to get to the point that I'm at right now. But it really is that simple. And I strive to be the same person that you're seeing today when you meet me in person. And it's an ongoing battle because it's easy to try to revert back to, well, maybe I shouldn't. Maybe this. It's just–it's easier. That's essentially it.

Right. One of the things you'll teach on at Imaging is content creation.

Yes.

And if we are ourselves, we're truly putting ourself out there, we're being authentic, and then the numbers don't start to rack up, that can start playing mind games on you. Is that part of the scaffolding you had to let go of being yourself, no matter the impact online?

Yeah, absolutely. I feel that we–at least me, I'll speak for myself. There we go. How about that? I feel perfection paralysis is a real thing because as a photographer, as a portrait photographer, especially an off-camera flash photographer, everything has to be perfect. The lighting has to be exactly where it needs to be. Even this light that I have here gridded is exactly at the right angle so I can make sure that it looks nice. The problem that I dedicated three hours of my life–sorry, not three hours–three years of my life. Not three hours. I wish it was three hours. Three years of my life not pressing record. And I press record when it needed to happen. So you always try to go back and say, oh, if I would have just done this, then I would have been so far ahead. But you know what? It doesn't matter when you start. Just be aware that if it's taking you so long just to press a record, to your point, nobody watches in the beginning. And it does play some psychological mind games on you that you just want to quit. Because I'm putting all this effort and I'm not seeing the return. Where's the ROI in what I'm doing? And I feel that part of the journey of content creation is going through those. You're going to be alone. It's going to be a very lonely journey. Doesn't sound that exciting. But what comes after it is what's worth it. It may not be in the way that you think. It may not be in the way of like, oh, I'm going to have the biggest podcast in the world. But you may have some amazing connections you make along the way, and that in itself has value. So whether it's podcasts, whether it's content creation, whether you're doing reviews, doesn't really matter. It's going to be tough at first, but if you stick with it and you're yourself so you don't have to do extra work trying to be somebody else, it's going to pay off to some extent, whether it's in the way that you think or in a different way. At least that's what I feel.

Is that why there are so few successful content creators because so few people have the guts and the courage to keep going through those days and months and years of what it takes to get there, to having an audience that you're satisfied with?

I think–I don't know about guts. I would feel that the data shows that after five years, like almost 90% of all channels just stop. They stop posting because they're hoping to get whatever the equivalent of that dopamine is, that like, oh, my God, people are watching, people are commenting, and et cetera. And I mean that. What else are you going to do with your time? If you're going to keep spending time on something that's not giving you what you're hoping that it's going to give you, it makes sense that you're going to shift, pivot, and go do something that might be more rewarding. So I do feel that a lot of people fall within that category because they start creating content because they feel that they should, because everybody else is doing it. You have to have intention when you're creating content, because either you're entertaining people or you're educating people. It really just falls into those two buckets. And whether you're entertaining them through, let's say, a podcast and a conversation, or maybe you're utilizing a platform to educate people, and now they're learning from you. Some people try to do all of it at once because they're trying to just throw anything that works their way, and the algorithm doesn't like that. The algorithm wants you to be consistent because it is a computer at the end of the day. But if you focus on the fact that you either have to do what you're doing with an intention and for a purpose, that'll make the journey easier. If you start because you're told to start, I don't think you're going to be able to cut it out because it's rough to do this as a solo creator.

You talked about intention. There's something that I read earlier this morning I'd love to get your take on. It says that we're at a point right now where we can either be a creator or we can be a consumer, that we have so many tools for time and for production in our hands, that taking time away from being a consumer and really diving into being a creator is one of the most fertile grounds that we can go towards right now. But it is not for everyone. Is that something that you're seeing as a split in the road right now that we really could take to time away from our consumption and invest more time into the creation at this point?

I feel that if you want to create content, you do have to sacrifice somewhere, right? Whether it's consuming content or some other area in your life, you're going to have to take time from somewhere. And I think as you start to create more content, you start to consume less content because the consumption becomes intentional at that point. You start to–in my case, I look at other speakers, I look at other people's work in regards to the realm that I'm in. I'm not necessarily watching too much, I guess, entertainment as I used to before, because you're going to have to dedicate time. Content creation requires time. If you're a photographer like me, you're going to have a studio that you have to account for. If you have a family life, you have time that you have to account for. And in order to pull this off, you have to get organized. And there's no cookie cutter way of saying that if you want to create content, you have to be organized to be able to create content. Think out the content. Who's going to be engaged? Is it just you or is it going to be dealing with guests? All that stuff takes time and more time than people think. Because you have pre-production production and post-production, which is how I have my class structured in those three different categories. And each of them require a certain level of attention, a simple certain level of commitment, and a certain level of sacrifice as well. So I do think there is that crossroad of consumption and also content creation–what was the other two categories? It was consumption and creation.

And creation.

That's what it was. Yes. I do think that some people are going to have to make that choice because both of them are going to take your time.

You mentioned inspiration, and I loved what you said about it because I find that as well when I'm creating things, I go and watch other people, not because I can do what they're doing, but they may do something that makes me go, ooh, I could do this in this way because they've shown me a different way. Is that how you're finding inspiration from watching others?

Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes, I'll just listen to people because I like how they interact with other guests. In the case of podcasts, let's just use podcasts as an example, which podcasters I feel are giving the guest the attention that they deserve because, you know, the guest comes first, then you. A lot of podcasters out there have it reversed, and I don't think that's the right approach because it shouldn't be about the Jean Carlo show. It should be about the person that's dedicating their time to talk to me. Because at the end of the day, we're leaving this as a legacy. Right, Pat? We're like, we're recording this and somewhere in the future, someone may be interested in either listening about to me or listening to you, maybe well past, you know, when we're here on this earth. So intention is important, and I feel that whatever you choose to do, do it with the right intention. That's all that I can hope for.

Do you think, going back to authenticity, that people can sense when someone's being inauthentic?

I do. I do feel that that's the case. And I think in this form that we're in, in this communication of podcasting, you can also quickly see people's perception as well. Right? Like you might see, like, wait a minute. So this is a little bit different than what I've seen before online. So I think some people struggle with. Because maybe they built their business around a persona, and that's fine. There's a lot of Personas out there that are not the same. Gilbert Godfrey, you know–rest in peace–he was a particular person and he spoke in a very interesting way. And for those that may not know, he was Iago and a lot of different movies out there had a very high pitched voice, but when you meet him in person. I met him once, he was so, well, my God, he spoke so well. And I was so shocked. That was his persona. People knew him for that, but he was still himself everywhere else. So I do think that the brand of yourself, being authentic plays a key role with the intention, because then if you're not who you are, it might skew where your intentions lie.

I want to talk about how we present content, either educational or entertainment, whichever, because your show is so unique. I just love what you're doing. And if someone hasn't seen it yet, tell us about the show. But then I want to ask about your creative choice, about how you present it. So if someone hasn't seen it yet, tell us about the Outspoken Artist.

Sure. Outspoken Artist is an ever evolving personal project of mine. I think I've come to accept it as, I asked a lot of artists at Imaging, when was the last time you did a personal project? And in retrospect, as I was editing all these things, I asked myself that question, like, what is your passion project? And it was like this. This is your passion project because you enjoy it. I'm not necessarily getting paid for it right now, but I enjoy it. It's a passion for me. And for me, the Outspoken Artist is a platform where I can have artists of any genre, really, because art is subjective and understand the person. Give them a place where they can communicate, say whatever it is that they want to say in regards to their craft. And at the same time, I've realized that I'm leaving little legacies for people that join my show. I think I've spoken to 75, 76 people thus far. I know friends that have spoken in the hundreds to people and every single one of those conversation, yourself, Pat, you've talked to so many different people, hear so many different stories. No matter who you are as a person, unless you're a robot, you will absorb all this information, and some of it will actually change you. You'll start to see things differently. And that's what I hope people get from the Outspoken Artist. I don't know my metrics right now. I should, but I really don't know my metrics because I'm not doing it for the numbers. I'm not doing it for that. I'm doing it because, one, I'm trying to get better at what I do, better speaker, better interviewer, etc. But also invite people that may never think to be on a podcast because I had a few that have told me this is the first time I've ever done this. And I love that. People always told me I should, but I never took that step forward. If I can help people take that step forward or highlight someone that I think this person's phenomenal, why not? Why not? So I tend–you'll see me at expos running around, either run and gun, interviewing people with the whole setup and everything else, or I'll be sitting down interviewing people. I just try to have organic conversations with people, a normal conversation, and just go–it goes from there just to understand who they are behind the art.

And I want to talk about the unique setup because the run and gun nature of it, almost documentary style at times that we're just, hey, look where we are and this is what's happening. Does that help someone that doesn't normally express themselves through the spoken word? I create pictures. I create videos. You're just getting them in real time on the expo floor. Does that help them lower their guard and be more present with you when you start talking about them and their beliefs?

I think it helps. Also, it helps when I put the headsets, by the way, because so loud in the expo floor that it's really hard to have a conversation sometimes with people. But when you isolate the sound–I stole that totally from Joe Rogan–but when you isolate them and all you can hear for the most part is you and the person, it lends itself to have a personal conversation with someone in a very, very crowded space. And before you realize that, you're having these very interesting, deep conversations with folks in the middle of like the biggest photo expo in the country. But you don't feel that way. Because the feedback that I've gotten from people is like, I feel like I'm just having a conversation with just you. And to me that's important. So I try to replicate that wherever I go if possible, because nothing beats a great conversation. And I feel pat that people need to start having more either face to face conversations because a lot of things are being lost. We're losing stories that used to be passed down from people talking to one another. We're losing the ability to communicate verbally because we're too quickly to type and respond in that way. And there is something about people just talking. It's something that I think we shouldn't lose because we're heading in that direction where the technology is so phenomenal. But we really just need to get back to the basics and just communicate with people, talk to people.

There's a lost art of conversation, partially because of safety, that very few places can you express what you really believe without fear of someone clapping back at you for saying what you believe, even if it's not, you know, controversial. What's the famous thread on social media that I like dogs. Oh, you hate cats, Is that what it is? No, I just said I like dogs, that's all.

Yeah. So, social media is something else because you do have to be careful with what you post, right? It's forever. I tell my son, whatever you choose to do to make friends or whatever it is, just know that don't do anything dumb because probably somebody's going to record you doing it and it'll forever live on the Internet. And to your point, it's, yeah, try not to be rude. That's probably the best thing to do. Be kind to people. And as long as you're kind and you don't try to destroy the other person on the other side, I think you can have a really great conversation. As long as you don't–you listen to understand versus listen to inject your opinion.

Totally. And that is one of the lost arts of stopping your internal dialogue long enough to hear what someone says so then you can have a conversation back with them, because that's not how people work. Lost that ability. And it's very frustrating.

I'm sure. I mean, I'm sure you with all the different guests that you had, there's been more than one time where you've had this question that you want to ask this person. You're like, oh, my God, I want to ask him this question. But now you're having a normal conversation with them and you're going in this direction. You have to make the willful choice. In this case, as an interviewer, a podcaster, is my question that important to completely derail the conversation, or should I just let it flow continuously and forget about what I wanted to ask? I feel that's the same thing with conversations.

It's 100%. To do a podcast that's worth listening to, I think you have to do that. Wow. Jean Carlo said something interesting there. We're going to go this way, and, you know, my questions be damned, we're going to go find out what he has to say about that. So, yeah, you're right on about that. Tell me about your show. Is there something that ties together your favorite episodes? Is it going way off script with someone getting really personal, talking technical details? Is there something that happens on the show that you particularly enjoy?

It's maybe contrary to what I thought I would ever say. I think I always look forward to whatever mistakes I have because no matter how much I try to make the show perfect in terms of technical side of things, I'm a single person normally. Normally, it's just me running around. Unless I get help from people within the industry that are so helpful, sometimes they'll lend a hand to help me carry stuff. But for the most part, when it comes to record audio and everything else, it falls on me. So every time I see something happen in my show, let's say my microphone pops up, but now the camera focuses on the microphone. Because these cameras are so great for product showcasing that now my entire show is for the most part out of focus. Now you would say, why would you be interested and excited about that? Because people told me they appreciate the mistakes. They appreciate the fact that I show that even though I'm out there, I can still make mistakes. I'm not perfect. And I think that's where people feel that they need to be perfect to be put themselves out there. And I'm like carrying the flag of like, nope, you can make as many mistakes as you want and just keep trucking forward. Because it's just more of an example to people that no matter If I've interviewed 300 people, I can still make a mistake. It could be like the most important interview that I've ever done, whatever that is, I can still screw up. And I feel that people need to understand that we can all make mistakes. We become better artists from the mistakes that we make as long as we work on them, if we keep making them. And then you're just repeating the mistake and not learning from that. So I do look forward to the challenges that the show brings me. The conversations that I have with all these wonderful people. It's eye-opening. A lot of the times, it's therapeutic. I linked it similar to therapy with some folks, because you can ask certain questions and people will open up about things that you wouldn't expect. And then you have to give them the ability to speak because you created a safe space for them to be vulnerable with you. And at the same time, you also have to be able to reel them back in so they don't feel exposed through the entirety of it. Because you also don't want that. You don't want them to feel like they just opened up, and you made them feel like, wow, you know, I opened up and I'm completely exposed. And you never really brought me back to where we were. So there's a lot of reasons, a lot of things that my show has brought me, Pat. One of them is that and just a massive, massive community of people that are out there supporting me for it.

That's a side effect of content creation that's real, that you're creating something that you truly believe in that's actually making a connection with the guest, that you're creating a backlog of, like you say, legitimate conversations that will outlive the individuality of the project that you've done conversation after conversation that have meaningful ties and now you've got this collection of work and relationships that aren't some flimsy collection of conversations. This is real stuff that has to be really rewarding.

It is. It really is, because of the fact that I never thought I would have these conversations before. I never thought I would put myself in the spot. I was never a front of the camera guy. Never was. I was always behind the camera for 35, 36 years of my life. So it's only the last couple of years that I just said, you know what? If people like me, great. If they don't like me, okay? I mean, I'm not for everybody. There's millions of us out there. But just the conversations that I have with people, there's no set script because I'm really just interested in learning about the individual that's in front of me. I know they're an artist. Sometimes I'll be talking to someone that everybody knows. This is my first time meeting them; now I get to meet them without all that backstory and just get to know about the individual and be surprised about the things that I hear. And sometimes, they'll tell me things that nobody's ever asked them before because they're so focused on the work that they do that they never envision this individual being more than just what they present themselves to be online.

I've had that on this show where I've interviewed people that are industry luminaries. And I'm not a photographer. I'm a broadcaster, podcaster, business coach guy. So I'll ask curious questions because I literally don't know. And they don't have to be under the weight of that one big cover shoot that they did or the one thing that they're known for. I totally agree with you because I've seen that happen in real time on this show before as well, and it opens the door to interesting conversations for sure.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Let's talk about Imaging USA. First of all, before we talk about your class, are you going to be broadcasting or podcasting at Imaging?

Yeah. I'm bringing like three different types of setups, like a stationary one run and gun one. And I don't know, I try to show people that you can do this. Whether you have a camera, like a Sony, Nikon, whatever it might be, or whether you have a Pocket 3 or whatever you have in your hand, you literally could do this. I see people out there with the little DJI microphones and etc, and I find it fascinating. It's just whatever works for the scenario. I know that for the expo, I'm definitely traveling light because I want to move around to all the different spots, but I'll be there. I'll be recording interviews. I don't know how many I'll record. On average, it's about 15 different guests I tend to have. But maybe I'll do more this time.

Well, 15 is great. Can't wait to see you on the expo floor. Let's Talk about pre-con, January 10, 2 to 5. Tell us about the class and who is it for.

Okay, class. Yes, 2 to 5, January 10th. How to create video for social media even if you're not comfortable in front of the camera. I feel that this is for anybody that's just waiting for someone to tell them, go. Right? You're either being told to create video and my class is going to tell you whether you should or not, because sometimes video is not the answer. If somebody's telling you you should do something, doesn't mean you automatically should. But if you are going to do it, you got to do it with intention. So you're first–not making a lot of the mistakes that I made and spreading yourself thin. People think that you need to be everywhere. You don't need to be everywhere. Start with one platform and get really good at that platform because that platform is going to service you to get better at what you're doing. So it's like your test dummy. You're literally utilizing the start to just get better at what you do. As long as you improve 1% each time, then that progress in itself is going to help you get to the next phase of content creation. So this is for those that are also uncomfortable in front of the camera. And you may ask, how are you going to make me comfortable in front of the camera? Well, I can't guarantee you that I'll make you comfortable in front of the camera, but I can tell you that I'm putting myself a lot in front of the camera for Imaging. And I will be showcasing bloopers and everything else because we all make mistakes. I mean, I'm putting little videos out there from now until January, different types of PSAs, just having a little bit of fun with it to show you that a formula can be followed to create these kinds of contents and whatever that story might be, it depends on you. What I create is going to be different than somebody else's. But at the end of the day, there's going to be a lot of mistakes, there's going to be a lot of bloopers. This is normal. It's absolutely normal. You just have to get through it. And the more you do it, the better you become. But even if you become great, you're still going to make mistakes, and that's okay.

I love the concept of a formula or a plan for someone. It's like, hey, go make dinner. Well, there's no recipe. I don't know what to do. Go make content. Well, what should I do? So you're saying that we'll learn in that class a formula or a step by step so we can take that decision fatigue off of someone so then they can go act?

Yeah, sometimes simplicity in terms of like formulas and recipes, to your point, it helps, right? It's not the law. You shouldn't–it's not like you have to follow this every single time. It's a good path to follow just to get you through those hurdles to just creating content. Because once you start creating art, your brain will then take whatever you've learned from everywhere else and just inject its own version of whatever it is that you're learning. So there is a pattern as to, let's say you want to make a 60-second video like for this portion, do this. For this portion, do this, do the hook, and make sure you end it with a certain call of action. Nothing new, nothing revolutionary, but sometimes seeing it in application. All the videos that I'm going to post follow the same structure. You're going to see. This has this, this has that. It all comes from the pre-production, production, post-production side of things. It should be the same template. Just inject whatever it is that you want to put into those. So that's my goal with the class, is to make it super straightforward and to the point as to what you can do to start creating content for social media. What are some of my recommendations in terms of cameras? I mean, we're all photographers for the most part, so everybody should have a camera, I would hope. But if not, everybody should have a phone. And a lot of the focus on the class would be we're going to use a phone. Because if you can use this thing every single day to run your business and whatnot, you can use it to create your content. So, at least from a technical side, there's no excuse there. We can focus on the important part, which is what is it really going to take for you to create video outside of the technical side?

Sounds like a great class. I look forward to seeing you at Imaging USA in Nashville. Jean Carlo, thanks for coming on the show, man. Nice to meet you.

Thank you, Pat.

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of The Professional Photographer podcast. Before you go, do me a favor, will you? Leave us a comment. What did Jean Carlo say that made you go, huh? I never thought of it that way. Or what are you going to take away and actually act on? Put it in the comments and let us know. That way, we know what we're doing well and what we should do more of in the future. Also, of course, like and subscribe. The other thing is, if you're not yet a member of PPA, you're missing out. PPA offers truly incredible resources like equipment insurance, a top-notch community, and photographers that are ready to help you succeed. It's perfect for photographers like you who are serious about growing their business in a sustainable and profitable way. At PPA, you belong here. Discover more about membership at ppa.com. That's PPA.com. I'm Pat Miller, founder of the Small Business Owners Community and your host to the show. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you right here next time. Take care.