In this gripping episode of the No Grey Areas podcast, host Pat McCalla interviews Dr. Dirk van Leenen, author, speaker, and Holocaust survivor. Dirk shares his incredible life story, from surviving Nazi-occupied Holland as a young boy, to his family’s courageous efforts to save hundreds of Jewish lives. His journey through the war is both harrowing and inspiring, offering listeners a firsthand account of the resilience and bravery required to endure one of history's darkest times.

In addition to sharing his personal experiences, Dirk has authored several books on the Holocaust, aiming to educate future generations about the horrors of the war and the importance of never forgetting. His dedication to preserving history through his writing is a testament to his belief that these stories must continue to be told.

This episode not only explores Dirk’s life but also reflects on the power of storytelling to keep history alive and ensure we never turn a blind eye to the atrocities of the past. Tune in to hear how Dirk’s family, without seeking recognition, risked everything to save others and how these events continue to influence him into the man he is today.

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No Grey Areas is a motivational podcast with captivating guests centered around how our choices humanize, empower, and define who we become. This podcast is inspired by the cautionary tale, No Grey Areas, written by Joseph Gagliano. Learn more about the truth behind his story involved with sports' biggest scandal at nogreyareas.com

Host

Welcome back to another episode of the No Gray Areas podcast. As we approach Veteran's Day, we want to take the time to express our gratitude to all the men and women who have served this country, fighting for the freedoms you and I have today. In this episode, we have the honor of sitting down with Doctor Dirk van Leen, an author and Holocaust survivor.

Host

We explore his one of a kind survival journey, a story that will leave you with deep reflection and offer a new perspective on life's everyday moments. Let's get started.

Pat McCalla

Dirk van Linden, welcome to the No Gray Areas podcast. I am so privileged to have you here today. As I was telling you before, we turned on the cameras in the mix. I'm a ferocious reader. I love reading all kinds of books, but especially history and primarily history around World War two and the Holocaust.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Okay.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes.

Pat McCalla

A little boy, when the. When the Holocaust begins and the war begins. You're. How old.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Two years.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

You're three years old. Okay.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Little boy. Amazingly smart.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Because when the soldiers came into our house, they. I was looking up to soldiers, their uniforms, their guns. And so they were starting to search our house. And I thought, oh, we're going to play a game of hide and seek. Maybe I can help them a little. Yeah. And my mother saw my hesitation and grabbed me and took me to another room and said, never tell the soldiers where our friends are because they're going to take him away.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

You say soldier for us. Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

The Nazi?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. Yeah. Your dad was actually part of the resistance.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

He was the head of the resistance in the city of The Hague.

Pat McCalla

So head of the resistance, meaning he's helping hide the Jewish

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

people.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

That's correct.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And moving them around?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Credibly dangerous.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Very dangerous. And it could only be done at night. And it was curfew at night. So you couldn't be on the street. And that's when you had to move people.

Pat McCalla

So you're again for our audience just watching the not being able to see it. But you gave me a couple of articles and there's a picture and this one of this little boy.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Yeah. This little four year old boy. And at that time, then

Pat McCalla

your dad is running, managing the resistance movement

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

But

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

ways.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Well, he took me with him all the time on his bicycle. And there was a reason for it. Because the resistance would create fake IDs for the Jewish people. Fake IDs were made by a little, actually, a as it were. And I, we had to deliver those. But my father was stopped at every roadblock and frisked an interrogated.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And if the interrogation weren't a little bad, he'd put his hand on his cheek. And it meant for me to create a scene. And I was very good at balling. And the Nazis. Yeah. And the Nazis would come over. Soldiers. They were fathers, too, sometimes. And a little boy crying. They came and they asked me what the. What's the matter?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And I would say I am hungry because I was always hungry. And sometimes they gave me something to eat. But meanwhile, my father was frisked and interrogated. And then they would say, get out of here with that bawling kid. Yeah. But I did. They didn't know that I was packed with all the counterfeit on my little body.

Pat McCalla

you had. So you were carrying the counterfeit IDs?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Need their frisking?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes. Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

That is incredible. At four years old.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yep.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. That was code for you to start bawling.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Start crying. Right.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

move along.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And it worked every time.

Pat McCalla

Wow. So

Pat McCalla

what year was that? Was that

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

1943?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

years?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes. Yeah. Okay.

Pat McCalla

Then

Pat McCalla

did your dad ever get caught? Did your family ever get caught?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes. At the very end. At the very end, there was a captain, a German captain who was crazy. He was walking around his office saying, I need to get that guy. I need to catch him. And he ordered trucks and soldiers to come. And they followed my father for two weeks everywhere where he went, because they wanted to catch him in the midst of a large group of Jews.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And so finally they did. And my father was arrested. 72 Jews were arrested in that location and brought to the jail. My father was tortured for five days continually. And then they came to pick up my mother, and she took me with her because I couldn't be alone. We had people in the house and they were too dangerous for me.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

So she took me with her, and I saw my father laying in a puddle of blood on the floor, and she had to clean him up, dress him up with fresh clothes. And when she was done, she said, okay, you can bring me home now. And they said, no, ma'am, you're going on the train tonight. And that's the third book, the last train to the concentration camp, one two weeks before the entire war ended.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

this captain was crazy because he thought that he would get a promotion if he could get one more trainload to a concentration camp. What he didn't even know was that the concentration camps were already closed. There was only one, and that was a holding camp. And that was a human shield for the Nazis, for their equipment. So to American bombers would not bomb that area.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And that's where we went in Bergen-Belsen in the north of Germany.

Pat McCalla

That was the last concentration

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

was, and they had already closed them down.

Pat McCalla

how old were you then? About six,

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Five. 25.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

You

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

No, no. Straight from there.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Straight from there to the train. And we were put in a train car that normally holds 20 cows, and they put 200 people in that car. We were pressed together, and the trip lasted four days and four nights.

Pat McCalla

On the

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

train.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

On the train. And we could not move our hands because we were packed together

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

and people died on that trip because they had to go to the bathroom, or they throw up and they could not have enough oxygen. Was that many people in enclosed anger? So when the train arrived in the camp, 30 dead bodies came out from among us.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

So

Pat McCalla

you're 5 or 6 years old, packed into this

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

That's right.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

That's

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

I know I have.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

To witness that at that.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And I never forget it.

Pat McCalla

Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And then in that camp, there were 60,000 people. And the Nazis did not have any food for them for the last three months. And people were dying, walking around like skeletons falling down. And the Nazis simply put them on mountains. And everywhere were mountains of dead bodies. And in my little eyes of five years old, that has made an impression is so incredible.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Unsheathed the faces of the people.

Pat McCalla

5 or 6 years old. I was waking up on Saturday mornings and watching cartoons.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

you're in a concentration camp with mountains of dead bodies.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Right. I

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

well.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

And then.

Pat McCalla

know, the other things you mentioned, you know, seeing your dad after he'd been tortured

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Oh.

Pat McCalla

did you all come back from that concentration

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

camp?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

How long

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Very old. My father became 97 years old. And my mother 103.

Pat McCalla

What? So your dad lived to 97 and your

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And they always said. This is our reward. This long life. And healthy, long life.

Pat McCalla

you were telling me you're Jewish

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

No, no they're not.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

My mother was Jewish.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Mother was Jewish.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And my father was a Gentile. And he married a Jewish girl, and she became a Christian.

Pat McCalla

an amazing story, though, Dirk, that your dad then is a Gentile. He marries a Jew and then risks his life to hide Jews.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes.

Pat McCalla

not just his life, but his family's

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

That's right. Oh, yeah.

Pat McCalla

you know,

Pat McCalla

is a very famous spokesperson said speaker said there's no greater love than this than a person lay down his life for another.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

That is one of the titles I use for my talks.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Is it really?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. No greater love, I see.

Pat McCalla

Yeah. And you witnessed that like

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. You

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

up. And in some ways, you, as a little boy did. Yeah. I

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

No,

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

others.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. Actually, I just thought it was exciting. It was like a, a big game. Yeah. And to me, as a little boy, I didn't feel the threat as much as later when I.

Pat McCalla

When? When was later? When did you start feeling the threat?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Pat McCalla

Did the anti-Semitism did was it still, alive and well after the war? Did you see that?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

No, no. In fact, the Dutch population was very, caring to the Jews very much.

Pat McCalla

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

How long were you in the concentration camp?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Only two days. Two days. Then the camp was closed. The Allied troops. The British came and closed the camp and arrested the Nazis. And then they started serving the people. They came was hundreds of trucks with loads and loads of medications and food and medic medical equipment and people, and started catering. And yet out of 60,000, 30 died,

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

30,000.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

them.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Died, though, because they had not had food. And when they gave them food, they couldn't. The inside was dead. Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Horrible.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

That's right.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

and the fake food stamps as well.

Pat McCalla

any idea the number of of people that were potentially saved

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And the whole stage was full of boxes. And I had a really good time to check out what was in it.

Pat McCalla

man,

Pat McCalla

as you grew older and became an adult, I imagine had a profound impact on you to realize because it's six years old, you don't

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

know. Yeah. No.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Pretty close to the to the beginning of the liberation. Because you couldn't buy anything yet. I needed shoes, my shoes in the picture, and my shoes were so worn out that I had to get paper in my shoes every day. And so you could not buy new shoes. The stores were empty. Our house was ransacked by the traitors over in Holland, and we had to buy material to fix it up again.

Pat McCalla

So when you were taken away to the concentration camp

Pat McCalla

the traders came in and

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

they tore out everything.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And they had warehouses full of building materials. And my father one day said just three days after we arrived, we need to go to the hardware store and get some nails. So we went to the hardware store and the men said, we have no nails and we won't have any nails, because the Nazis took the factories and the machinery and the steel, and they are not being able to make any nails, nor for the next six months.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And so I heard that, and I was only five or just six years old. And I knew, I knew we had an old claw hammer and I found it in the backyard. I put a stem on it with my little fingers, and I went to the bombed out houses in the street, and not because I always saw wood beams with nails sticking out.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And I started pulling the nails. And that first night I had a handful of nails, and I came home and I said to my dad, here are your nails. If you want more to $0.10 apiece,

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Give her a little lunch for you or. Wow. You actually

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

No, but not him. But I kept pulling nails every day, and I brought him to the hardware store, and they paid me $0.10.

Pat McCalla

That's amazing. Well, Dirk, when did it start, though, for you? I'm assuming you became an adult

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

in.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. When I went to high school, I felt that I was different than all the other kids. And I had a lot of history to think about, and they asked me about. And the teacher asked me one day to write an essay on the war, and I wrote a 40 page essay, and the teacher had never seen that before, 40 pages of an essay.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And I read the whole essay at the assembly of the school. Yeah. And then and from then on, I always felt, that I had to tell people and tell people about food. For instance, food was so scarce that from then on, I never, ever leave food on my plate at the end. And my grandchildren do. And I tell them my story and why it's so precious to eat your food.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Don't throw it away.

Pat McCalla

We take a lot of things for granted.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. Through something.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Like. Oh, absolutely.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

So, this second book you wrote, then The Americans are coming. Why that title?

Speaker 1

Hey, we hope you've enjoyed this episode so far. Be sure to like and subscribe to not miss a future podcast. Okay, let's get back to the episode.

Pat McCalla

So, this second book you wrote, then The Americans are coming. Why that

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

They came and were fighting in France and in Germany and everywhere, but not in Holland yet.

Pat McCalla

So as a little boy, you're hearing that that sigh.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Exactly what?

Pat McCalla

take us back. What was the what was it like the first time? Then you saw an American soldier. Because you're saying that

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

the

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. Correct.

Pat McCalla

What was that like when you first saw

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Well, that was exhilarating because they came with jeeps and trucks and full of people, and all the citizens would be taken on the truck driving with them. It was hilarious. But celebrating it was happy.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

The military vehicles.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Did you and the soldiers like. No, I did not. Was too young, but most mostly girls. The soldiers like, of course. And a lot of Dutch girls later married American soldiers.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Oh, yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Sad.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

The.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Well, the third book then, you reference at the last train

Pat McCalla

on the way to the concentration camp.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

created something unique in this book. I made, ten pages, black, black pages. And on the pages is the picture of a train car. That's where we were in. And we were in the dark. In the dark is of the train and the night. And so, then on those pages are some of the remarks that people made in the train, like, I can't hold it any longer.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Oh, I knew and all those kind of remarks. But also one Jewish person started singing a very famous song, very famous Jewish song. And that's in that book, too.

Pat McCalla

What was the name of the song do you remember, or the

Pat McCalla

or maybe some of the words of it?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

the words are very.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

the song is called The Unit down. If token and the. He's saying the song, he has all these pages, but he's saying this song here once in a while, a couple of sentences, but the sentences were so impactful. One of them who will live and who will die? Who in that time and who not on the time.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Who by fire or by water, or by sword or by beast, or by hunger or thirst, that was all surrounding those people. And he was singing that song.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And,

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

People joined. Yeah, people joined in.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Wow. Well, so is a little boy. That

Pat McCalla

is a little boy here in this train car? It's pitch black.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

It's pitch black. And you're.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Hearing free. Can't move.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Anymore. Yeah, they're they're on the page sometimes.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Or phrase. Yeah. Is a little six year old.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

turn the page. Day two. I can't hold it any longer. Crying if they would just stop for a bathroom break. They're stopping now. Who will live and who will die? How can the Nazis do this to us? You heard? Praying?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Wow.

Pat McCalla

We turn the page again. This is day three. Night three. We're stopping here for at least five hours.

Pat McCalla

What a cruel treatment. Crying. Cursing. Singing. Where are we? I can't bear this any longer. We're moving again. Sorry, I'm choking from the smell in here. Wow.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah, that's a picture of what really happened. Yeah,

Pat McCalla

How did this affect you later in life? You've lived, quite a number of decades now. Since then?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

since that essay in high school, when I was 14, I was totally wanting to tell people. So I started doing talks. I started writing short essays and gave it to people. And every time I was involved in letting people know up to this day, every day.

Pat McCalla

what do you think it was at 14 years and now all these years later. What was it that made you want to get this story out? To let people know.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

The lack of freedom, the lack of food, the lack of of space, lack of comfort, lack of buying anything. I have a little funny story. When I was four years old, I, no, six years old. I went to kindergarten and at Christmas at December 5th ish, one Saint Nicholas comes to Holland in third class. They call him.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And the teacher said, if the if to the kids, if you bring a little bag of sugar, I will make sugar cane for you and I my I had to get it from my mother and it was hard because you could not buy anything yet. So I brought it and one day they came. The teacher said to me, you cannot stay here.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

You need to go outside because you didn't bring your sugar. I did, I absolutely did. And so she sent me outside and I never forget that.

Pat McCalla

Wow.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

That was so mean.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know that that was a funny story. No sense. Wow. Yeah.

Pat McCalla

So,

Pat McCalla

you've spent your life sharing this? In fact, before we turned the cameras on. In the mix on. I found out that, you ended up graduating with a doctorate

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah, from.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

The University of Holland. Yeah. Horticulture, correct?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

for a couple of decades?

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yep.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

like

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

so amazing. But in all of that, you were still trying to take every opportunity you could to tell the story

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Absolutely.

Pat McCalla

What do you say to people?

Pat McCalla

Because it's so sad to me that we've had in fact, it's been going on for a few decades now

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. Some are saying, well, that never happened.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

You know.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

I had,

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

my book resistance on a bicycle in the back of my car, and I picked up two guys that wanted to go to the airport. Yeah, and they saw that book, and they say, oh, you're a Nazi. Because of the.

Pat McCalla

Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And they started harassing me, saying, oh, you're a Nazi. And don't what do you think of throw the Nazi too? I slammed on my brake. I said, get up right on the freeway. Get up. So that's my reaction.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah,

Pat McCalla

You cannot,

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

That's absolutely.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Horrible. Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And that's happening at the universities with all these rioters. And that is because they have not read my books. And, any history is hardly taught in schools anymore.

Pat McCalla

You know, Dirk, when I was in Rwanda, it's in East Africa.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. And

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

there because he was.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Oh, yeah. And

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah, too.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

they'll know.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

absolutism like

Pat McCalla

yourself who survived that

Pat McCalla

I would highly recommend our audience. I'm going to ask you to share where they could get these books to, if they like to read, to grab one of these books, read about it.

Pat McCalla

This is this is history. This really happened.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

That's right. And these

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Absolutely.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

No.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Now, he

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah,

Pat McCalla

But that's a great that's a great picture

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

That's right.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

fighting for justice.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

The best way is my phone number.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Pat McCalla

I mean, to me, what a treasure to have a signed copy

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah, they were ups. I mean, to.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

You, they were just mom and dad.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Well, they.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

You you probably came to realize they were.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Heroes. You know, they were. And they they did something that is very interesting because one day, a month after the war ended, people from the government in Holland came to our house and they interviewed my parents, and they said, you need to come to that in that address. And you're going to get a an award, a medal. My parents, at the same time in Harmony, said, absolutely not.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

We did not do this to get a medal. We don't want a medal. Then we got letters out of Jerusalem to put their name in the in the archives. They're same thing, they said. Absolutely not. Our reward is our age and our life.

Pat McCalla

Wow.

Pat McCalla

Dirk I was in that museum in Jerusalem that you're talking about. And again another like if you can walk through that museum and not break down a couple of times

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. But

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah, at this time in

Pat McCalla

history, I've walked through museums.

Pat McCalla

And then to think that your parents names

Pat McCalla

could have been on that wall in Jerusalem

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

when I walked

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

not the no,

Pat McCalla

not what we did it. But man,

Pat McCalla

you know, I along with our audience, just sit here with you and say what what an honor to meet you.

Pat McCalla

What an honor to know that your parents were heroes like that. And you, as a little boy, didn't even realize that

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

you were quite the hero, too.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

I mean,

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Play.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Of all of that. Yeah. And tell us

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

The play is professional in in Herberger Theater the whole month of, September. The play portrays the life of Anne Frank and how they were betrayed. And then at the end of the play, come on. The stage being introduced as the article, as a, Holocaust survivor. And then I tell them what they saw on the stage happened to me to.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. And then do you have a question and answering, time.

Pat McCalla

of the most interesting questions you've ever been asked?

Pat McCalla

When you do those kind of things you speak in schools,

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah, we do things.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Well. The very simple is always, why do you do this? Because I spend time, drive. I spend money. Well, I have a very good reason. Because I survived it.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

And that's why I want others to know.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Dirk I think your story too is such a reminder. I was just talking to my wife about this the other night, and I said, you know, I think we make two mistakes as humans. Either we we don't recognize the inherent good in humans. Like, there's we, you know, you walk down the street just like so many people do, so many great things, so many good things.

Pat McCalla

And we miss that. Or the other extreme is we don't realize how evil

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

humans do.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

you know,

Pat McCalla

where your parents and others and the resistance were, were willing to lay down their life for other human beings.

Pat McCalla

But then you also witnessed the, the, the, the depths of depravity of

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Human. Yes. Oh, yeah. At the.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Same time.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

At the moment, I, I really see the wastefulness of, of everything of life, of food, of buying, spending money on nonsensical stuff that is, so, so bad,

Pat McCalla

So right now, where you're at in life, one of the things that that you're looking at is just going, it just seems like a wasting so much.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes. Oh, yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Wasting time and wasting money and wasting everything.

Pat McCalla

Well, those. And that's that's where that changes your your the lens you look to for the rest of your life. Right.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Because I absolutely parents

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah,

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

That's right.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

that.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah.

Pat McCalla

Well, man, again. Thank you. Honor. You honor your parents.

Pat McCalla

I sure wish I could have met them.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah,

Pat McCalla

honor to meet them, but, I'm sitting here with a hero and, a guy that had two parents as heroes.

Pat McCalla

Again, will have the the way for people to connect with you.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yeah. I

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

they.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

Yes. Purchase a signed copy from you. Right.

Dr. Dirk van Leenan

you. So awesome.

Host

Thank you for joining us today. Let's remember the importance of honoring history and ensuring stories like Dirk's are never forgotten. Stay tuned for more inspiring stories of perseverance and courage from all of us in no gray areas. Have a safe and healthy Veteran's Day. We'll see you next time.