Episode Summary: today we are joined by Leah Rampy to discuss her book Earth and Soul: Reconnecting Amid Climate Chaos, a project rooted in her lifelong connection to the living world. Leah shares how her book draws from her extensive experience in understanding climate change, biodiversity loss, and leading retreats and pilgrimages that invite deeper ecological connections.  

Leah shares her journey from corporate roles to advocating for environmental stewardship through initiatives like "Save Our Soil," while addressing the dangers of "othering" and promoting a kin-centric view of nature, leading with the heart, and embracing the grief and joy of climate change. 

Highlights include: 

• The inspiration and journey behind Leah’s book Earth and Soul. 
• The grassroots movement “Save Our Soil” and its focus on local regenerative farming and habitat creation. 
• Leah’s transition from a corporate career to environmental and spiritual work. 
• The principles of somatic leadership and how they can apply to environmental advocacy. 
• Balancing grief and joy in the face of climate change and the importance of ritual and community in navigating these emotions. 
• The concept of kin-centric ecology and the practice of reweaving our relationships with the natural world. 
• The value of local pilgrimages and connecting deeply with the nearby environment. 

About Leah Rampy: Leah is the author of Earth and Soul: Reconnecting Amid Climate Chaos. Leah is a writer, retreat leader, and educator who blends ecology and spirituality through personal stories and practices to help others deepen their relationship with the natural world. With a Ph.D. in curriculum from Indiana University, Leah currently lives with her husband in a co-housing community in Shepherdstown, West Virginia. 

To connect with Leah, visit https://www.leahmoranrampy.com/.  

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Featuring Carbon Almanac Contributors Leekei Tang, Brian Tormey, and Jenn Swanson.  

Leekei is a fashion business founder, a business coach, an international development expert, and podcaster from Paris, France.  

Brian is a Real Estate Title Insurance Professional and Goat Farmer in the US.  

From Langley in British Columbia, Canada, Jenn is a Minister, Coach, Writer, and community Connector, helping people help themselves. 

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For more information on the project and to order your copy of the Carbon Almanac (one of Amazon best-selling books of the year!), visit thecarbonalmanac.org 

Want to join in the conversation? 

Visit thecarbonalmanac.org/podcasts and send us a voice message on this episode or any other climate-related ideas and perspectives. 

Don’t Take Our Word For It, Look It Up! 

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The CarbonSessions Podcast is produced and edited by Leekei Tang, Steve Heatherington and Rob Slater. 

Hi, I'm Christina.

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I'm from Prague.

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Hi, I'm Jen, and I'm from Canada.

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Hi, I'm Oladunji, and I'm from Nigeria.

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Hello, I'm Liki, and I live in Paris.

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Hi, I'm Brian, and I'm from New York.

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Welcome

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to Carbon Sessions, a podcast with

carbon conversations for every day, with

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everyone, from everywhere in the world.

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In our conversations, we share ideas,

perspectives, questions, and things we

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can actually do to make a difference.

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So don't be shy and join our Carbon

Sessions, because it's not too late.

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Hi, I'm Brian.

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Hi, I'm Liki.

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Hi, I'm Jen.

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And today we are very excited to have

Rampe, who is the author of a book

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called Earth and Soul Reconnecting.

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Amid climate chaos.

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And Leah's a writer, a retreat leader,

an educator who weaves ecology and

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spirituality, personal stories and

practices to help others deepen their

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relationship to the natural world.

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And she's got a PhD in curriculum

from Indiana University.

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And she lives with her husband in a

co housing community in, and I'm not

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going to say this right, Shepherdstown?

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Did I say that?

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You said that right.

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Yes.

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And, uh, and they have, uh, the

Rampys have two adult children.

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And so Leah, we are delighted

to welcome you to this podcast.

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And I want to start off by

asking you, um, when, when was

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this book brewing inside you?

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first of all, let me say I'm really

happy to be here because I've been

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happy to follow you all for a while.

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So it's a pleasure to, to join you

and to get to see you on the screen.

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Uh, the book, um, probably is fair to

say it's a lifetime of brewing because

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I have tried in the book to go back

and connect to some of my earlier

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experiences and to remember what it

was like to feel so deeply connected.

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To the living world.

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The sort of more pragmatic answer to

that is I've been actually doing the

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writing for a couple of years, informed

by work that I've done in trying to

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understand climate change, biodiversity

loss, species extinction, and also

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work that I've been doing, leading

retreats, pilgrimages, and so on, and

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inviting people to connect more deeply.

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with the living world.

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So that those have all shaped and formed,

um, a desire to write on this topic.

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And it's really been the last two years

that have been, okay, time to do it.

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And the book is out now

or it's just coming?

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It's out.

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It was out in February.

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Oh, fantastic.

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Fantastic.

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Great.

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All right.

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Anybody have a question

they want to jump in with?

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I'm happy to go first.

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Um, so Leah, I, you know, there's

a lot of questions I have for you.

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Um, I'm going to go first a little bit off

book topic and ask you to share a little

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bit about sort of the soil culture, the

work you're doing there in West Virginia,

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which is, which I think is its own sort of

like background context for your writing.

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To me, it seems like.

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Well, yes, it is.

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Thanks for asking that because it's

something I really enjoy talking about.

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I should be clear that this is not a

topic that I'm an expert in, uh, soil

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health, but it is one that I've read

a lot about and I'm really interested

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in and excited about when I first

moved into this co housing community.

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Of course, it was easy to connect with

people who had, uh, similar interests.

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And one of those was

around climate change.

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We talked a long time about what we might

do to help our small community and our

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region attend more to climate change.

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And we kind of took the side tour,

thanks to some of the work that we were

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doing and taking classes from Kiss the

Ground, to say, let's just focus on soil.

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And so we, we created this

little grassroots movement.

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Not very good name for soil, but

we created this volunteer group,

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I'll say, uh, called Save Our Soil.

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And our intention is to support local

regenerative farms, to encourage buying,

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eating, growing food locally, composting.

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And then we have a program called Lawns

to Life, where we encourage people to

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exchange their lawn for habitat, for the.

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Native species, and we also, of course,

there's some food for us into that

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mix as well, and we do presentations

and invite people to come to our

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community because this is something

that we practice in our own little

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spaces outside our door, but also in a

community garden and in a conservation

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area that's around our community.

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I'm curious that there's been, I've

been sort of in a number of discussions

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recently around this, this sort

of like lawns back to life kind of

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topic of planting native grasses.

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Can you I feel like we've got listeners

in all corners of the globe, but lawns are

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pretty common in many of those corners.

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Can you dig into that part a little

bit more and, and share a little

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bit like, what does that mean?

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Well, you know, we're one of, we're a

culture that seems to think that the

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more you, uh, create a grassy area in

front of your home, the more status

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or the more beauty that that creates.

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And I think for many of us, that

was kind of drilled into us that

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you had to keep the lawn nice and

neat and goodness knows it couldn't

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be more than a few inches tall.

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And certainly homeowner associations

have that as a as a rule.

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Oftentimes, and if it's not a rule,

it's kind of a standard and people

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frown upon neighbors who would let

their, their lawns go wild, takes a lot

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of water, takes a lot of fertilizer.

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Most of the grasses we grow are

non native, so they're feeding

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no one, including the soil.

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So the, the hope, the intention

is to say there are so many native

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species that are desperate for

food, why can't we help them out?

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Well, and it's, and I'll say this, our,

our local library here did this recently.

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They took sort of a, an addition, a

big space of the acreage and sort of

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intentionally took what had been lawn

and, and recreated it and it, and

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they put, they installed a walking

path in and now they, the only trim

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and mow the walking path and the rest

of it is all just native acreage.

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very much.

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Um, now newly planted native

grasses and it's just lovely.

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Like it's just this one, I grew up,

uh, you know, as a cattle rancher out

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in Oregon where that's what we had.

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We just had native grass, you know,

we just had these huge fields that as

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we rotated the cattle around, they,

you know, they left behind and then

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it grew up and then we went cattle

into what was like a big meadow and

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it was just, we didn't plant seeds.

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We didn't do it.

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It was just whatever was

growing there, right.

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Sort of natively for a long time.

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And to be able to go walk through like

sort of these like native meadow spaces

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is it's all a really lovely experience.

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Um, so thanks for helping lead that.

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Um.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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I, I may take us now like an

entirely different direction.

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Um, but one of my other questions,

you, you've got some of your own

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professional roots are in some pretty

large corporations like American Express

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and Fannie Mae and sort of like, you

Very large, I don't know what fortune

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100, probably maybe fortune 500, but

you know, very large corporation.

134

And I'm curious as you know, we're sort

of going through this place where we

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recognize that companies need to be

some of the thought leaders in making

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change patterns and supporting process

pattern changes all the way down through

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their operations in so many ways, like.

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What was, what was it like being inside

those companies and any thoughts and

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guidance to other people who are working

in large, in both big companies and

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small as, as to how they can think

about bringing some of this connectivity

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that you talk about in your book?

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Into experiences inside their company.

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Yeah, I think that's a,

that's a bit of a tricky one.

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And I want to be honest that by the time I

was really interested in what was going on

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in the world in terms of climate change,

I had moved out of the corporate world.

146

And had begun to do executive

coaching, leadership development,

147

and then eventually moved

into, uh, leading a non profit.

148

So once you're in the non profit

world, as long as your mission

149

aligns, you have a lot more freedom.

150

To be speaking in ways that are sometimes,

uh, might feel quite constrained

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if you're in the corporate world.

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I know that there are more organizations

interested in going green and, you know,

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my, my children are better examples

of this than me because they join in

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with environmental groups within the

organizations where they work and

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really appreciate that opportunity.

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But my own personal experience was.

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Not one of paying much attention

at all to what was going on in

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the world outside of my door.

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You know, it was much more the

typical, get in the, walk down the

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stairs, get in the car, open the

garage door, drive to work, park in a

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parking garage, go up to your office,

and put your head down in work.

162

And it was really, not only not was

I not paying attention to uh, climate

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change and to biodiversity loss.

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I was really not very connected

to the world around me.

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I would, I missed it and I

would love being connected.

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Um, when I could on a vacation

or a weekend or whatever, but

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there were long periods of time

that, that was not my priority.

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So I'm chagrined to say that.

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I'm not particularly proud of it, but

I also want to be honest because, has I

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lost, I lost track of what was important.

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Yeah, which can, which

can happen to all of us.

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I mean, I think it does

happen to many of us.

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Um, that's great.

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And I was wondering, um, if there are

moments when you have this trigger,

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trigger moments when you realize that

I have to leave this corporate world.

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Um, and do something else with my life.

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I spent two years trying to figure

out how I was going to leave

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and if I was going to leave.

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And it, at the time, was more

about wanting to spend more

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time with my youngest child.

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in particular.

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So that was the, that was the

genesis, but I loved my job.

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It was a good one.

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It was what I had worked hard for.

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It had the kind of trappings that, um,

no one would have been sympathetic if you

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told them that you're, you know, laboring

over whether you should leave this job.

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So those make it, um, you know,

they, they don't use the term

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golden handcuffs for nothing.

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It, You know, it's very hard

sometimes to leave, and I kept trying

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to figure out, well, what is it

I want to do if I'm leaving this?

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And I couldn't figure it out.

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So finally, I decided I just had to take

the plunge in order to even be able to

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figure out if there was a there there.

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Now, I don't know if you're interested in

this, but Um, after that, a few years, a

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colleague and I did a series of interviews

and focus groups with people who had

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left large organizations, um, after

they got to the job they had aspired to.

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And.

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It was always that first move

was so incredibly difficult.

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And then we tended to find that

once people made that move and

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sort of knew they could survive,

it was easier then for them to make

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a second or a third or a fourth.

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They weren't so deeply attached to it.

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But making that first one was a

really big, Decision and a big leap.

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I can, I can relate.

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Me too.

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I can relate too.

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I had, you said something about

not feeling connected and I, can I

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read something from your book here?

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Of course.

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I love this.

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We are made for oneness.

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Born of the stars as are all beings

we are inextricably of and within the

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holy mystery itself Whether we know it

or not whether we live into it or not.

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We cannot separate ourselves

from the shimmering web of life.

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Ah

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That's just beautiful and when when did

you feel that connection after you left

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when did you feel like you were more

connected to that shimmering web of life.

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So forests speak to me, um,

individual trees as well.

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I've taken to saying sometimes I think

because I grew up in Kansas where there

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were so few, they were so precious to me.

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But, um, So, I would say those kinds

of experiences always had the power

222

to halt my busy mind and let me drop

in more to, um, an embodied feeling.

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of being connected and being present.

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So that could happen in a, you

know, walking around the yard.

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If I could get my busy mind to

stop, it was more likely to happen

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in a place where I was surrounded

more fully by the living world.

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And then I would be really

be able to slow that down.

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But it took me, um, probably

years, maybe five years or so

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after leaving the corporate world,

because I didn't fully slow down.

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I kept doing executive coaching

and leadership development work.

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So I had more spaciousness in my schedule,

but not so much, um, a change of scene.

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in some ways.

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So it was a long process

of unwinding for me.

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I'm a slow learner when it

comes to some of these things.

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So it, it really took me a while to get

clear that that was what was important.

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When I was working, um, In the, um, in

the nonprofit world, I was executive

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director for Shalem Institute, which

is a, uh, an institute that supports

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contemplative living and leadership.

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And so I was inviting people into the

world and retreats and in pilgrimages,

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and that was such a rich gift.

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You know, what a retreat was in the

corporate world was really turned on

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its head when we're talking about the

kind of retreats that I started leading.

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It was a whole different kind

of experience for me as a leader

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and certainly for participants.

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So a lot of my, um, a lot of my

discovery has been in going with others.

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You know, kind of in an, in accompanying

others into quiet or into open

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spaces, into microscopic beauty.

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Um, I just, in accompanying, I

find it a heart opening experience.

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That's, you know, something that I've

got a few friends as teachers that

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they, you know, you ask them, how

do you handle the stress, um, You

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know, corralling 23rd graders, right?

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Like they're, you know, like all this

energy and stress and, and they're like,

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you know, the joy is like seeing their

eyes learn these things for the first time

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and like getting to keep reliving that

pure, that deep, pure joy and excitement

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is like a thing that I have a few friends

that like hearken to in that space.

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And, and the way you said that

Leah reminds me of that teacher

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mentality of like getting to.

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The joy is getting to watch someone else

come to that, that, uh, that moment the

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first time and you get to keep redoing it.

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Um, it's interesting that

you say that sort of thing.

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We.

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For our, we have a twice a year

sort of retreat for my company,

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for our, our leadership and

the, and we rotate who plans it.

264

And one of the, the team member who's

planning it this year is a lover

265

of the outdoors and has advocated

for, and with a little bit of little

266

bit of pulling everyone along has

gotten the leadership to agree to go.

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do it as an outdoor retreat as

opposed to sort of our classic, you

268

know, we all gather together, we fly

in and sit in the conference room.

269

And, you know, we might go out to

a dinner that night, but instead

270

of going out and going camping

together, um, and having our meetings.

271

So it's, it is a full new, she's

a very respected team member.

272

She's been with us 20 something years,

and she's got enough, uh, uh, chips

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with all the other managers that

she's like, this is what I'm leading.

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This is what we're doing.

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She got everyone on board.

276

So I'm excited to see if maybe.

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Maybe those conversations and strategic

things are, maybe there's, there's a

278

difference if we're doing an outdoors,

not, not in a conference room.

279

Uh, Brian, I would love to hear about

that because I really, I would be

280

curious if relationships, um, change,

you know, there, there is something,

281

there's something around a campfire,

you know, there's something about

282

starlit nights that's different.

283

Different pace.

284

Yeah.

285

Yeah.

286

No, I'm excited to see how it goes.

287

Oh, I will, I will report back to you.

288

Good.

289

Is there, I'm curious as you

witness people sort of go through

290

that transition a little bit.

291

Are there other things that you think

to encourage them now that, you know,

292

there's some of that waking up that you

then help send them down the pathway of

293

like other little, you Habits or patterns?

294

Like I tend to think about

things as like pattern change.

295

Like, are there other little changes

to their own daily patterns or habits

296

that you encourage that might help keep

nourishing that little spark or flame?

297

I love that you asked that.

298

Um, I had a teacher who reminded

us that, you know, you're

299

always practicing something.

300

So, even though we can think that

how many thousand times it will

301

take to establish a new habit,

302

but it only starts when it starts because

otherwise you're continuing to practice

303

your old habit and reinforcing that.

304

So it becomes very embodied.

305

Um, when I was doing executive coaching,

I did a fair amount of work and

306

study in the, in the somatic field.

307

And that was really helpful for me because

I had cultivated a life of the mind and

308

I think that my own experience is that

a relationship to a tree or a plant

309

or a bird or whatever is much less

likely to happen if I am only about,

310

um, understanding their biology, uh, be

sure I'm, Being sure that I could name

311

what they are, you know, identifying

sounds, whatever, if I'm coming at it

312

from a mind space, it's a different

relationship, like it would be with you.

313

You know, if my, if my entire relationship

with you was around content and problem

314

solving, that's very different than if we

see each other from more of a heart space.

315

In the natural world, I would say the

invitation is to go to our senses.

316

And, you know, and, and take

them one by one and refine them.

317

Because for me, if I keep practicing

over and over what I'm thinking about

318

and how I will speak and how I can

articulate what I want to say or write

319

or convey, I am less practicing listening

or, or taking in the smell of the pines.

320

or hearing all of the sounds in a forest.

321

There's a practice, a Celtic practice

called tuning the five stringed harp,

322

which Jen's nodding, you probably

read in the book, you know, taking

323

one at a time, each of those strings

of the harp, each of those senses.

324

And just focusing in on that and tuning

it and staying with it and sharpening it.

325

You think about our ancestors and

how generations back, they would

326

have had to know those things.

327

They wouldn't have lived if they hadn't,

you know, so they would have had to know

328

that and they would have to, you know,

it's a, it's a sensory experience, it's

329

a gut feeling, it's a heart opening.

330

It's all of those somatic

practices that I invite people to.

331

Over and over again and

slowing, always slowing.

332

I was reading something this morning

from the center, uh, for action and

333

contemplation, and it was speaking to

that, it was speaking to, you know,

334

it's not all about, um, the business

, the, the brain business and, uh,

335

and more, uh, more about the heart.

336

And, uh, and so in that, I'm, I'm

thinking you have a chapter in here,

337

uh, called Dancing with Grief and Joy.

338

And one of the questions I have is

about, uh, is about the grief around

339

what's going on with climate right now.

340

And, and how does one mitigate that?

341

How does one, I mean, how does

one accompany people through

342

that maybe is a better question.

343

Yeah.

344

Yeah.

345

Yeah.

346

I like the way you adjusted

that because I, I don't think

347

we can mitigate the grief.

348

Um, it is here.

349

Um, it's surrounding us.

350

We are not going to live long enough, any

of us, to have a future where the grief

351

is not present around the loss of so many

things in this amazing, beautiful world.

352

If you read, I don't know, I think

it's in the Washington Post and

353

may well be in the New York Times.

354

If you've read recently, I think it

was the day before yesterday, about the

355

howler monkeys in Mexico falling out of

the trees, dead or dying, because they

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are both malnourished and dehydrated.

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And it is true.

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just simply heartbreaking.

359

There is no way that we cannot

find ourselves full of grief if

360

we're paying any attention at all.

361

So rather than say, what

do we do about that?

362

How do we avoid it?

363

Could we stick our head in the sand?

364

You know, could we cover

our eyes, cover our ears?

365

Which I totally understand is so tempting.

366

I think the question is how

do we open larger, larger?

367

How do we open ourselves more and more?

368

How do we allow our hearts to break

so that we hold that grief along with.

369

The awe and the wonder and the beauty

and the joy, because it is also there.

370

And so my concern is if we deny

the grief, we numb ourselves.

371

And in numbing ourselves, then we numb

all experiences, you know, or we just

372

don't get to choose to be sort of numb.

373

And so.

374

We want to be fully alive and present to

this amazing world and to each other in

375

these edge times as difficult as they are.

376

That's the dancing.

377

It's holding, holding both and

finding the beauty that exists both

378

alongside the sadness and sometimes

the beauty that exists within.

379

that loss as well.

380

So not an easy thing for me.

381

It's the only way I see to be with.

382

What is happening?

383

For that, do you have any practical

tips to raise an open jaw?

384

Well, in a way, in a way, Leaky, they're,

they're kind of the same practices,

385

right, that you would if you were

going to experience awe and wonder.

386

And you may want to start with the

awe and wonder as your practice

387

because it's everywhere, you know.

388

Um, but it is opening the senses.

389

You know, it is opening the heart.

390

If you think about being with, um,

a good friend who is grieving and

391

maybe you don't even know why, you

just know they're in a really state

392

of, you know, a deep state of sadness

and you're sitting with them, whether

393

they say anything or not, you know,

you notice their eyes are welling up.

394

You notice that there's a way in

which they're holding their bodies.

395

You know, that's grief

and your body knows that.

396

And it responds.

397

And you feel tears welling up in your

eyes, you know, so if we're talking about

398

the for talking about being in nature

in a place where there's a lot of loss.

399

I think we don't have to try to do

anything except to simply be there.

400

Now grief is best held, um, with ritual,

you know, and we probably have to invent

401

a lot of those because we don't have

some that maybe, maybe our ancestors did.

402

So ritual.

403

And with others who are like hearted.

404

Um, Much of what we have to bear

would be very hard to bear alone.

405

So, both with other humans and with those

more than, more than humans in the world,

406

we join in, in our grief and in our joy.

407

Um, Leah, may I ask a question, um,

for our audience, can you help talk

408

through and explain somatic therapy

and sort of just explain that term

409

and what it means and sort of the body

of practice behind it a little bit?

410

You had some great commentary.

411

Yeah.

412

We're about it and it.

413

And it feels very applicable to

this conversation and your thoughts.

414

Yeah, sure.

415

So what I was, uh, what I was working on

is what was called somatic leadership,

416

which simply says you don't just

walk into a room as a leader with

417

a voice and with an action plan.

418

You walk into a room as

a fully embodied person.

419

And so we would all know that difference.

420

We would be able to see it because

people expect words and body to align.

421

And when they don't, we don't trust them.

422

So if I were to say to you, sure, Brian,

I'm, I'm very happy to help you with that.

423

With my arms folded.

424

You wouldn't feel that.

425

Right.

426

And for our audience listening,

like Leah just embodied the opposite

427

of her words in the context here.

428

Leah was definitely telling

me no with her body.

429

And in tone, we, you know, tone, Brian,

because we learn so much from tone.

430

So it's the words, the tone,

the nonverbals all aligned.

431

We think that our words matter, but

people, people read us far more from

432

our nonverbals and then our tone

and our words are kind of frosting.

433

On the cake.

434

Yeah.

435

So when I talk about somatic

practices, um, what I'm talking

436

about is a practice that invites me

to be open, present, and available.

437

That would mean to be open, present,

and available is, let's say, let's say

438

we were in a setting and I was your

boss and you came in to talk to me.

439

And I was sitting there answering emails

and picking up phone calls in the middle.

440

You would not have the sense that I was

open, present, and available to you.

441

That's one piece of it.

442

You know, the other piece is kind

of like determining our intent and

443

holding that intent, um, in a way

that we're embodying it as well.

444

It's like we are the declaration

of what we want to accomplish.

445

It's not an out there in the speech.

446

It's a fully embraced sense.

447

Yep.

448

You're doing it.

449

See, we're both doing the up and

down that nobody can see, but

450

Leah and I both just made the

same gesture of just Yeah, yeah,

451

it's hard not to because that's

what we're talking about, right?

452

We're talking about the

importance of embodying.

453

And so we're trying to

figure out, this is it.

454

This is my whole problem with my book.

455

I'm trying to write about

things that actually are.

456

don't have words, you know, and

now I'm trying to explain a concept

457

through words that I'm really

talking about is beyond words.

458

So here we go.

459

Embodiment, incarnation.

460

Oh, I was just going to ask

about, um, kith and kin, and if

461

you wouldn't mind talking about

that, explaining that to us a bit.

462

Sure.

463

Sure.

464

So, uh, indigenous scholar Enrique

Salmon speaks about kin centric ecology,

465

and the idea that for many, uh, if

not most indigenous peoples, there is

466

a sense of brotherhood and sisterhood

with the more than human world around.

467

Robin Wall Kimmerer is, um, an author

I think so highly of, and I really,

468

um, would love to just sit at her feet

for long extended periods of time.

469

She writes over and over about

kinship, that we are the younger

470

brother and sister, that when you

look at the evolution of the universe.

471

We come last, so we are

the least knowledgeable.

472

Trees, for instance, have been

here far longer than we have,

473

so they have practice, they have

a knowing that we don't have.

474

And it's, so that's one

way of thinking about it.

475

Another way of thinking about it is to,

um, not assume that our intelligence is

476

superior in every way, but to understand

that many beings have their own unique

477

intelligence, some of which we just

haven't even begun to learn about yet.

478

We started out, Brian, we

were talking about soil.

479

Well, think about, you know, what's going

on under this top layer that is amazing.

480

It's connected.

481

It's sending messages.

482

It's sending nutrients and receiving them.

483

I mean, there's this whole amazing

system that we didn't even know

484

about until fairly recently.

485

We certainly didn't know how trees were

exchanging nutrients with each other

486

underground and keeping each other alive.

487

So, so there is so much

intelligence in this world.

488

And so this is also another

way of, of honoring that.

489

So when I'm speaking of kin,

I am intentionally doing that.

490

That's a habit I am trying to establish

to break my habit of othering.

491

So anything I treat as othering.

492

Other, other than human, or other than me.

493

I begin to slip into this.

494

Um, sense that it is

something I could use.

495

It's something I could own.

496

It's something that serves me and my

wants, and that it doesn't have this

497

viability of its own, and I think

it's a slippery slope because once

498

we other, um, let's say the land

around us, then maybe I other the

499

people who are living on that land.

500

And they too are not like me.

501

And maybe they're lesser than.

502

And, um, there's a, there's a, Amitav

Ghosh in The Nutmeg's Curse talks

503

about how the words brute and savage

were cultivated to hold people as

504

other, and therefore being other, you

were allowed to do what you willed.

505

to be dominant over.

506

So that's maybe a whole lot longer

than you wanted, but that's a piece

507

of the kin, is trying to re establish

a, a more, uh, appreciative and

508

loving focus with what's around us.

509

Now kif, I just sort of

went back and grabbed that.

510

That's a historical term that was

occasionally used to mean the land.

511

Um, and then It somehow

fell in to be kith and kin.

512

It was just sort of like

one phrase all together.

513

And because I needed a word, I, I really

said, let's put kith back there with land.

514

So we have the land and the

beings on the land, the kin.

515

Um, because that was a concept

I really wanted to talk about.

516

Is that, you started your book , in

the introduction, telling the

517

story of a woman who's weeding.

518

Um, as weaving in, in Dun, um, weaving

a piece of cloth, or, I don't remember

519

exactly, but, and I was just struck

by the word weave, and weaving.

520

It just resonated with me so strongly,

like, you know, the, I mean, what is

521

lacking today is to weave us, or it's

to weave a relationship with the world.

522

Everything around us, we have this

umbering relationship with everything

523

around us, whereas I think what, I

think this is what we're trying to

524

explain, that the right attitude

is to weave our stories, our, our

525

life, our, our evolution together.

526

I mean, maybe I'm, I'm

misinterpreting the, the sense of.

527

I totally agree with you.

528

Yes.

529

Yes.

530

It's a journey, it's a

journey of reweaving.

531

I actually started out, that was the title

I was using, Reweaving Earth and Soul.

532

Actually I started Reweaving

Soul and Earth, is what I was

533

calling it, in edge times.

534

Um, those were important to me.

535

And then I had a publisher who

said, nobody's going to know

536

what you're talking about.

537

And I was like, that is

what I want to talk about.

538

Um, so yeah, so it, so it evolved,

but yes, I'm glad you picked up the

539

story of the woman weaving the world

because I think, uh, you know, it's an

540

old story and some of these rich old

stories can be interpreted in so many

541

ways, even by us, you know, tomorrow.

542

May be a, a way we interpret that's

very different than today, given

543

whatever comes our way, we keep, that's

what a good story should have, right?

544

That richness of being able to,

uh, to explore and hold it and, and

545

look at it in many different ways.

546

And, and I don't know if you want me

to say a bit about that story or, yeah.

547

So this is a story of the old woman

weaving the world who is in a cave,

548

probably not very far from where you live,

uh, but you can never find this cave.

549

And all day long, she sits and weaves

the most beautiful fabric in the world.

550

Every so often though, she has to get up

from her weaving and walk to the back of

551

this cave, this cave that, um, is very

deep because it's important that she stir

552

This big pot that is on the fire that

is full of the roots and the seeds and

553

the nuts of this living world and if she

doesn't stir it then it might burn and

554

who knows what problems that might cause.

555

So she walks very slowly to the back

of the cave and as she is stirring

556

Stirring and then very slowly

returning because she is very old.

557

There's a black dog who awakens.

558

He's been lying there

all the time at her feet.

559

And he begins to gnaw on the weaving

and pull on one thread and then another

560

and then another until pretty soon all

of the weaving is lying on the floor.

561

When she returns, then she sees all

of her beautiful work in disarray.

562

And she pauses, and she looks, and

then slowly she bends down, and she

563

picks up one of the threads, and a

new design takes place in her mind,

564

and slowly she begins to reweave a

new and even more beautiful design.

565

Can I just confess that that story struck

me so much that I actually told it.

566

At the beginning of a sermon, I'm a

minister, so at the beginning of a sermon,

567

um, because it was just so perfect.

568

That's so good.

569

I heard a friend, I had a

friend who told the story and I,

570

you're more perceptive than I.

571

The first couple of times I heard

it, I went, okay, where's that going?

572

And what an annoying thing.

573

And I've told it to people who are like,

well, why didn't she just put the dog out?

574

Because clearly this is

going to happen every time.

575

Why is she leaving the dog there?

576

And my response is, because it's a story.

577

And you know, you're going

to have to resolve that.

578

I, you know, I don't

tell you what it means.

579

So anyway, but yeah, so it took me a

while to get it, uh, in my heart, you

580

know, and, and now I love the story

and it means everything and nothing

581

and different things every time.

582

I love it.

583

There's the sort of almost the

instead of putting the dog out because

584

let's say that represents entropy,

like sort of like all this chaos

585

and all these other things, right?

586

Like Um, we know we can't, and

so if we can't, let's be at

587

peace and make something new and

beautiful out of, you know, there's

588

so many layers to that lesson.

589

I wanted to go back to, I think it was

like a minute ago, because it, it echoed

590

really strongly for me, my, many of my

friends, but especially my coworkers hear

591

me talk incessantly about what I refer to

as, as others do, it's my term, as the us.

592

them dynamic, right?

593

And sort of our, our anchoring in our

evolutionary biology around like our

594

brains are hardwired to create and draw a

distinction between two different things.

595

Right?

596

I'm holding up here on the video,

two different coffee cups of

597

different shapes and types, one's a

thermos and one's a classic ceramic.

598

Well, they're both coffee cups,

but they're two different, like

599

you can look at them and be like,

well, those are not the same thing.

600

They're very different.

601

They have different colors and shapes.

602

And attributes, but they're

both coffee cups or tea.

603

They're, at the moment,

they're both tea cups.

604

Um, and I talk a lot about how we're

wired to find those distinctions.

605

And it's like our prefrontal,

like our cognitive side that

606

needs to help us undo that.

607

That thing that naturally

just happens, right?

608

Um, and we find that challenge in

so many places in, in, in our daily

609

life, whether it's around, you know,

affinity towards political groups or

610

religious or of sexual orientation,

just all these different things.

611

And I'm curious, you know, any wisdom

that you might share with our audience

612

about how we do that, that practice,

how, how do we go back to the practice

613

of overcoming that innate, natural.

614

You know, pattern recognition

and pattern differentiation

615

function with, that is part of our

species and many other species.

616

How do we overcome that on a, on a daily

minute to minute basis in a way that

617

helps us take that us dynamic and spread

that circle to include some of the them

618

and make our circle bigger and bigger

and bigger and, and it's both throughout,

619

you know, expanded amongst us humans.

620

But then also to look at these, I was just

reading about the howler monkeys that you

621

mentioned, which I had not yet heard that

story and looking at them being like,

622

those are the size of my kids, right?

623

Like, and they're dying from

heat exhaustion from a heat wave.

624

And you know, like that's hard to

think about if you really pause and

625

reflect on like, what's happening.

626

You know, and, and that group.

627

So I, I go back to my question, I

guess, being like for tips and wisdom

628

on how we widen that us perspective

and then be more inclusive of the,

629

what otherwise might be the thems.

630

Yeah, well, um, you know, here's my hunch.

631

Um, I, as you said, our brains

are really good at that.

632

They're really good at differentiating

and, and there's certainly times

633

we need to differentiate, right?

634

So that's an important brain function.

635

My hunches go to the heart, because

the heart knows how to keep drawing

636

bigger and bigger circles, right?

637

The heart has this limitless capacity

for compassion and so in that continual

638

opening of the heart, we hold the

mind in a little bit more of a Well,

639

we let the mind stay in its place.

640

I think we're so, me, I'll stay me.

641

I'm so practiced because I

spent years of practicing.

642

Let me back up and say that I was

a female executive trying to move

643

ahead in a world full of men.

644

You do not think I was leading

with the heart, do you?

645

I mean, really.

646

you know, that was not

how the game was played.

647

Now, I was trying to be kind to people.

648

I'm not saying that, but I'm saying

I became really practiced in logical,

649

rational, um, Interactions, problem

solvings, argument and decision making.

650

So my practice has been,

needs some balance here.

651

That needs to balance out with a heart

that is more open and caring and loving.

652

There's a contemplative, uh, phrase

called the mind and heart, you know,

653

to bring your mind into your heart.

654

We also know from those who study the

heart that a lot of the information

655

comes in through the heart.

656

We just send it to the mind, and then

the mind, depending on what we're

657

letting our mind do, can take over.

658

So, that's my hunch, is that when, uh,

When we can't get out of the othering or,

659

you know, the, making the distinctions,

um, when we're so annoyed about how that

660

person, you know, took over something

that we were supposed to do and that

661

was mine and what are they doing

interfering, or I'm feeling dismissed.

662

It, it, we've got to drop, you know,

we've got to drop into that hard space if

663

we don't want that to be the place that

we are, you know, living and engaging.

664

in that moment or in all

of our moments, perhaps.

665

That make sense?

666

I have a question now about, um, what

the right response has been to the book.

667

It's been out since February and I

just wonder what conversations are you

668

having now, now that it's out there?

669

Yeah.

670

Well, conversations like

these are so, so back up.

671

I wrote the book because I said, this is

the conversation that right now, as far as

672

I can tell, this is the conversation that

I want to be in for the rest of my life.

673

Like, I feel like this is the

conversation I'm called into.

674

So here we go.

675

I've already told you, you know,

candidly about my background and I will

676

tell you occasionally or maybe more

than occasionally, I warp into this,

677

do I have enough reviews on Amazon?

678

And where I'm really trying

to live is in these absolutely

679

wonderful, enriching conversations.

680

that are so meaningful

to me and to others.

681

And so the responses that I really just.

682

You know, care about, someone wrote

on, on Goodreads something along the

683

lines of, I'm so glad I found this book.

684

It's the first time I've been

able to breathe in months.

685

I mean, that's why I wrote the book,

you know, if there are 10 people

686

who feel that way, I'm done, right?

687

I mean, really.

688

Um.

689

I'm So that would be worth two

years, two years of work, two

690

years of writing and another year

of getting it out in the world.

691

That would be worth it if, if

people could, um, see a way to hold.

692

How we will live in these

times on the edge of such loss.

693

I will say that it seems to be the

people who most resonate with the book

694

are those who are already working really

hard for this world and are feeling so

695

sad that you know, they They don't see

the difference and um, so I just, I'm

696

enjoying being a companion on the road

for people who are in that kind of space.

697

I resonate with all the viewer

on the bridge because I've just

698

started reading your book and

after the chapter I felt, wow.

699

I feel really, you know, there's a way,

there's something I can do, and uh, and

700

maybe I'm just not looking at the issue

the right way, and there's another way.

701

But at the same time, I feel that

it will take so much time and so

702

much resources and so many, all

the people need to be involved.

703

So what can we do?

704

I know.

705

I know.

706

Well, I think yes and yes.

707

Um, I mean, I want everybody

to be involved and I also don't

708

know what it's yours to do.

709

And that's what I want you to find, like,

what is that one thing that's planted deep

710

within because we can't do everything.

711

And that's not easy for some of us who

are used to trying to take on the world.

712

Your one, your one thing may be

that you bring together people to

713

have these kinds of conversation.

714

And that is not, you know, that should

in no way be considered not enough.

715

I mean, that is a huge gift to the world.

716

And so then you pour everything you

have into that, and you know that you

717

are making a difference beyond what you

can know and what you will ever know.

718

And that the difference you're making

may not even show up in your lifetime.

719

I don't know.

720

You know, I mean, we know, you

all know that so much of this

721

climate, um, chaos is baked in.

722

I mean, it's baked in.

723

If we made these drastic changes

now, dramatic changes, not drastic,

724

dramatic, not drastic in that they, we

would probably all have significantly

725

better lives than we imagine.

726

Were we to make these kind of significant

changes and be so much less involved in,

727

you know, you know, consuming and needing

and anyway, before I fall down that hole,

728

um, I mean, that's the problem, right?

729

There's so many threads we can, we can

follow here, but you know, so it's baked

730

in and we are going to be facing loss.

731

So I see, I see that we

just have to save that.

732

You know, we can't lie to ourselves

and each other and I, I don't believe

733

let's not tell people the truth because

you know, it will make them do nothing.

734

I think we tell them the truth because

they, they have a piece of this.

735

Every single person has a piece of this.

736

So I'm going to tell you that it's bad and

I'm also going to tell you that it's not.

737

That your possibility is living into

that gift you have been given and giving

738

it as fully and freely and generously

as you possibly can in reciprocity and

739

gratitude for all the world is giving you.

740

And to see those things and to lift

them up and to, yeah, all right, I'm

741

going to quit because I'm starting

to do, do Jen's sermon for her here.

742

Yeah, you did.

743

I'm just like,

744

This is wonderful.

745

Thank you, Leah.

746

Thank you.

747

Anybody have another question?

748

I'm looking at our time and I know

we've kept you quite long here.

749

Oh well, I love it.

750

We could do, you know, I'm

sorry, sorry we're not sitting

751

around the campfire, you know.

752

Well, yeah, I'm actually

curious about that.

753

Maybe we can all at some point

come, or even just virtually.

754

Yeah, we could do that one day.

755

Yeah.

756

But I'm curious about the, the

privilege of the second places in the U.

757

S.

758

and internationally that you're leading.

759

What are those places and what's

the goal and how does it feel to,

760

you know, to do this privilege?

761

Well, so, um, I've done probably, I

don't know, pilgrimages, um, and, um,

762

to really wonderful, beautiful places

from the Pacific Northwest to, uh, the

763

Isle of Iona off the coast of Scotland.

764

I'm not doing them anymore, and I'm

not doing them anymore because, um, a

765

colleague of mine, Beth Norcross, who runs

the Center for Spirituality and Nature,

766

and I, um, have been collaborating on

some different programs together, and

767

we're currently writing a book together.

768

She challenged me somewhere along the

way to create a pilgrimage close to home.

769

So, um, You know, that kind of

sunk in with me, that we shouldn't

770

have to go far in order to go deep.

771

That makes me, I think there's another

layer to that maybe that wasn't

772

intentional, which is without that

expanded travel footprint, right?

773

We, we sometimes, I was actually just

chatting with someone, um, here in the U.

774

S., it's Memorial Day weekend, a

classic sort of start of summer,

775

um, big, everyone goes somewhere

and, and has a big barbecue.

776

And they said, oh, where are you going?

777

And I said, I live in a beautiful place.

778

Why do I need to go anywhere?

779

I'm going to spend time, my family

might regret this, but I said,

780

we're just going to spend time and

like work in our backyard and just

781

be here in this beautiful place.

782

I already live.

783

I don't need to go to

some big destination.

784

And so Leah, it's interesting as you take

the idea of pilgrimage and bring it local

785

and say that, you know, there's something

local to you to find your, there's also

786

like a reduced footprint that you create.

787

As a result of making that

decision to not go to this.

788

Absolutely.

789

That's not lost on me at all, Brian,

because that, you know, that it, it,

790

it has a sense of a little, well, a

lot of dis ease to be, you know, and,

791

and I justified it for a long time

talking about what rich experiences

792

people had, which I believe are true.

793

And yet, yeah.

794

Yeah.

795

Yeah.

796

Maybe to bring this slightly full

circle, you know, I don't know, maybe,

797

you know, A year and a half ago, I

can't remember exactly, we did a podcast

798

recording with, um, uh, sort of an

innovative thinker named Joshua Spodek,

799

um, who also has a great podcast, uh,

The Sustainable Life and, and, and,

800

you know, teaches and all those things.

801

And one of the things that came out

of it for me, Josh and I then started

802

working on some other things sort of

on the side together and, and he is.

803

His reflective questioning caused me

to have a lot of, um, really looking

804

at the impact of my own life and my

work travel and all these things.

805

And, and even just all every last little

bit of my daily behaviors came into

806

reflective as I was thinking about it.

807

And actually it was the grief and

the stress from that self reflection

808

became almost overwhelming.

809

And this is something I'm

right on the podcast here.

810

You know, it really led to just a level

of overwhelming stress and, uh, which

811

then led to like not sleeping, exhaustion,

and then led to other health things, um,

812

that culminated last, um, last January

and not happy health moment for me.

813

And, uh, and a lot, some down deep,

but that was some of this like

814

wrestling with the grief of all

these things as I looked around.

815

So maybe as we.

816

Um, come back to, uh, the beginning

of this podcast, maybe share with our

817

listeners here some of the, your thoughts

and wisdom on dealing with that as, as

818

you do, as you, as you pick your head up

out of the sand and look around and absorb

819

the things happening, you, you can't help

come to the rational conclusion, Oh my

820

goodness, this is really not good stuff.

821

And, and I.

822

All of us are contributing to the not

good stuff in one fashion or another.

823

Um, so thoughts on like how to

deal with those, those big emotions

824

that can come out of that and

the sort of the stress, anxiety.

825

Well, I think to the degree possible,

you know, I said this before,

826

we want to go together, right?

827

So we want to be with others.

828

Um, you know, and we'll, we'll help, um,

not deny what we're feeling, not tell us

829

that it's wrong or that it's untrue, but

acknowledge the truth of it and be in a

830

place where they invite us into the and of

it, the joy, the beauty, the, the wisdom.

831

So that's, that's one thing.

832

Um, I don't think we can always look

at it all the time and always hold it

833

front and center that we have to go

into those places and be nourished.

834

So I can go into the woods and I can

look at, you know, so many trees that

835

are being decimated by invasive species.

836

And I can also go in there and enjoy.

837

It's shady.

838

It's beautiful.

839

The canopy is gorgeous.

840

The, you know, the amazing

network underground is doing

841

these incredible, magical things.

842

You know, I can smell

the air being cleaner.

843

There's, I can sit with that.

844

And, uh, I have to because

that's also part of our healing.

845

I think we have to keep healing ourselves

so that we can do this work so that

846

we cannot dull ourselves, you know, so

that we can hold this grief that is.

847

And I think sometimes our companions,

you know, our, um, John O'Donohue talked

848

about our anamkara, our soul friends,

soul friends that accompany us and, you

849

know, listen deeply to our feelings.

850

Our soul friends can be trees or

birds or, you know, a beautiful

851

grassy knoll or a prairie, whatever.

852

And so sometimes it's going into that

soul friend and just listening, like,

853

keep breathing in until we can let

those thoughts go and be with what is.

854

I use the, you know, I think of the

metaphor of walking along a cliff edge,

855

of being on the edge, and you know,

there's the, the wind and the waves

856

are pounding below, and part of a cliff

is carved out, and we don't know how

857

long it will last, but that doesn't

mean there aren't little flowers.

858

Growing along the edge.

859

It doesn't mean that you can't reach

out and take the hand of somebody

860

next to you and pull them back.

861

It doesn't mean that you can't help

each other over the rocks and stones.

862

It probably does mean that the path

we're going to be creating isn't clear.

863

Um, I, I don't know who,

you know, this is the thing.

864

The old woman came back and she stopped.

865

And she waited, and I think we're

on a threshold where we have to

866

wait because I don't think it's

clear how a future that leads us to

867

mutual well being is going to emerge.

868

And so I think there's some waiting

that we're also doing, which is not

869

an easy place for most of us to be.

870

It's very hard.

871

So we're doing some waiting to

see what's invited and what is,

872

what is Earth's invitation that

we can walk along with her.

873

Um, but in the meantime, you know,

there's part of this deepening our

874

gifts and our own sense of, you know,

call and invitation that we have.

875

It's not easy.

876

It's, it's definitely not.

877

Um, and, You know, we look for

all those little wonderful sparks

878

of sparks of joy and bird song.

879

The idea of waiting there, but finding

those flowers and sort of the things

880

that are flourishing there and, you know,

being a little bit with them patient with.

881

You know, the, not that they're cognizant

of the risk of being on the cliff

882

side, but just sort of being patient

with like just being where they are.

883

You know, you just provoked for

me when you said that there was a

884

favorite quote that I've had and

I'm going to have to go back up.

885

I don't know if it's Neruda.

886

I can't remember who said it.

887

A burning patience has taken us thus far.

888

If people want to, uh.

889

Find you.

890

Leah, where do they find you?

891

I, I often say I have a

very cleverly named website.

892

It's leahrampey.

893

com.

894

So, yeah, so you could go there.

895

I do occasionally put

out a little newsletter.

896

I do lead retreats and you can see

where I'm doing that on, on the website.

897

I am on Instagram at Leah Rampy.

898

I'm on LinkedIn at Leah Rampy and

I'm on Facebook at Leah Rampy Writer.

899

So, and the book's available, you

know, at the usual places and go ask

900

your local bookstore to order it.

901

Thank you so much for sharing

your wisdom with us today.

902

I'm so glad that you had me.

903

What a delightful opportunity.

904

I feel really, uh, I feel really

energized and privileged to have had the

905

chance to talk with the three of you.

906

You make a terrific trio.

907

Thank you.

908

Thank you.

909

So wonderful having you here, Leah.

910

It feels very privileged to talk with you.

911

Thank you.

912

Yeah.

913

Well, and thanks for all of the good

work you're putting in to the world.

914

You've been listening to Carbon

Sessions, a podcast with carbon

915

conversations for every day, with

everyone, from everywhere in the world.

916

We'd love you to join the Carbon Sessions.

917

So you too can share your

perspectives from wherever you are.

918

This is a great way for our community

to learn from your ideas and

919

experiences, connect and take action.

920

If you want to add your voice to the

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921

org slash podcasts and sign up

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922

This podcast is also part of

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923

For more information, to sign up

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924

and to order your copy of The Carbon

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925

org.

926

Be sure to subscribe and join

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927

we can change the world.