71: Your God-Given Gifts: What Charisms Are and How to Use Them to Build Up the Church

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Take the Charism Assessment

Many Parts Ministry Website

Join Mari as she welcomes Jill Simons, Executive Director of Many Parts Ministries, to discuss charisms from the Holy Spirit. Jill shares her journey from founding Pink Salt Riot to helping people discern their unique spiritual gifts for building up the Church. Learn about the importance of understanding your charisms, their outward-focused nature, and how they can transform your life and community. Jill provides insightful definitions, personal stories, and practical steps for discovering and living out your charisms. This episode is filled with inspiration and actionable advice for anyone seeking to live a Christ-centered life.

00:00 Welcome to The Ever Be Podcast

00:44 Meet Jill: Executive Director and Founder

01:13 Jill's Journey: From Pink Salt Riot to Charisms

02:49 Understanding Charisms: A Deep Dive

07:12 The Importance of Discerning Charisms

10:49 Misconceptions and Misunderstandings

14:52 Exploring Tongues, Prophecy, and Healing

18:50 How to Discern Your Charisms

20:01 The Importance of Spiritual Assessment

21:25 Understanding the Digital Assessment Tool

22:41 The Role of Charisms in Different Life Seasons

25:22 Community Feedback in Charism Discernment

27:23 Real-Life Stories of Charism Discovery

31:54 Creating a Culture of Charisms in Parishes

35:17 Encouragement for the Ordinary Listener

38:21 Conclusion and Resources

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Follow Along:

Ever Be Podcast Instagram

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Speaker: 00:00:06

Hey, I am your host, Mari Wagner,

and you're listening to The Ever Be

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: 00:00:11

Podcast where Faith Meets Lifestyle.

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: 00:00:14

I'm so excited you're here.

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: 00:00:16

Whether you're a new listener

or a longtime follower, I know

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: 00:00:19

there's something here for you.

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: 00:00:20

Pull up a chair and listen in for

insightful, real life conversations and

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: 00:00:24

actionable steps on how to claim the.

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: 00:00:26

Full life God created you for.

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: 00:00:28

If you're a woman desiring to live

a Christ-centered life in today's

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: 00:00:32

modern world, then this is for you.

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: 00:00:36

Welcome to ever be.

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: 00:00:43

mw-host150_1_10-15-2025_104337:

Hey everybody.

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: 00:00:43

Welcome back to ever be.

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: 00:00:45

Today's episode is going to be about

spiritual gifts, and it's a topic that

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: 00:00:50

I love so much and that I've learned

a little bit over the years and been

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: 00:00:55

able to experience different gifts

over the years and just have seen the

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beauty and the power of how much they

build up our own faith and the faith of

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those around us and build up the church.

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: 00:01:03

So I'm super pumped for you to listen

in on this conversation because Jill is.

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An expert and she had so

much great insight to share.

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: 00:01:11

Um, but the podcast was recorded

a couple months ago before ever be

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: 00:01:15

answers or ever be moments existed.

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: 00:01:17

So I'm just gonna pop in to do

those little segments 'cause I

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: 00:01:20

don't want you to go without 'em.

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: 00:01:21

And I actually have a great ever

be moment that I wanna share.

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: 00:01:23

So let's just kick it off with that

our ever be moment for the week.

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Mine is, um, just a beautiful new

way to approach prayer that Trey,

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learned on his silent retreat recently.

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: 00:01:35

So Trey goes on a silent retreat

every year, and when I posted about

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: 00:01:38

it on Instagram, I had some questions

about where or how you get to do that.

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: 00:01:43

I'll just share the one he does.

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: 00:01:44

It's called Cloisters on the plat.

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: 00:01:46

It's in Nebraska, but you can do silent

retreats probably in your own state.

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: 00:01:51

I'm sure there's a retreat

center that does it.

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: 00:01:53

Just, you gotta research it.

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: 00:01:55

Um, but he does this one

in Nebraska and it's.

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: 00:01:57

Really an incredible, retreat

house slash campus that they have.

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: 00:02:00

Um, and it's been so fruitful for

him to take a retreat every year.

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: 00:02:03

So anyways, he came back from that

this weekend and we had like a

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: 00:02:08

date afternoon to debrief it and

hear how God worked in his prayer

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and everything over that weekend.

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And one of his takeaways has really stuck

with me . And it's that God's love for us

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is more important than our love for God.

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: 00:02:24

Um, and when it comes to prayer, us

receiving and experiencing and pondering

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: 00:02:30

God's love is actually more important

and more fruitful than us loving God.

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Now, that doesn't mean that loving

God in prayer and desiring to

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show God your love and prayer.

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Is bad at all or not good enough, right?

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That's not what I'm saying.

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I'm just saying that like we don't have

to prove our love to God in prayer.

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That's not what prayer is for,

and I just hope that that brings

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you a sense of peace because I

feel like we often can feel like.

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We want to get to prayer.

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Yes, and we wanna make it a priority, but

there's a part of us that feels like it's

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an obligation to get to it because God

deserves it, which of course he deserves.

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But our love is never going to amount

to the love that he has for us.

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And our need for his love is so much

greater than his need for our love.

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And so looking at prayer as like,

we need to get to prayer because God

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deserves our love and we need to prove

our love to him is actually not a

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right ordered way to think about it.

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And we actually need to be

approaching prayer from the place

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of like, I need God's love so much.

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I need to be filled, and I need

to meet him in that love that he

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so deeply wants to pour over me.

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And when you're in prayer, one thing

True was talking about was how, like

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in the spiritual exercises on a silent

retreat, they use the word consider a lot.

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And it's interesting to think of

that in the context of prayer.

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Like it's not just like

reflect or like pray about.

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Consider.

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And so he would say like, when you go to

prayer, you wanna consider God's love.

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And I just think that's so interesting.

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Like you take yourself outta the

situation, you put yourself next

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to God, Hey God, like this is

the love that you have for me.

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Let's consider it together.

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Like what do you wanna

reveal to me about it?

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What does it look like?

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What does it feel like?

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How much do you love me?

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What does that love really like?

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Um, so I hope that that is

an encouragement to you.

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I think to me.

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That's my ever be moment for the week.

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Um, because it gave me so much freedom

and peace to know that like we don't

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have to strive in prayer and we

don't have to perform in our prayer.

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We literally just need to receive

and we don't need to be proving

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to God how much we love him.

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We need to be receiving God's love.

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Like that's what we need

to be doing in prayer.

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So that's my I Ruby moment.

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I hope that was helpful to you.

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I just thought it was amazing and I've

been reflecting on it all week since.

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All right.

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Let's get into the episode.

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

Welcome back to Ever Be everybody.

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I'm so excited to have

Jill on the podcast today.

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So welcome Jill.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

Thanks for having me.

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I'm so excited to be here.

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

Jill is the executive director,

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of many Parts Ministries.

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Is that right?

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: Yes.

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Mm-hmm.

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: And

you also used to, or do you still run?

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Pink Salt Riot.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

So I founded Pink Salt Riot.

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I, it was acquired

earlier this year, so I'm

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: amazing.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

with it anymore, but it is

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thriving under new leadership and

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Good.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: yes.

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

Glad to hear that.

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I love that.

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Could you just take a minute to just

share a little bit more about yourself,

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introduce yourself and maybe what you do.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

Yeah, absolutely.

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So I am a mom with four kids.

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I live in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

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My kids are 11 and under, and I

married my Benedictine sweetheart

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the way that so many people do.

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so he's chair of theology at our

Catholic diocese in high school here.

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And, I have always, since I was

like 17 years old, loved the

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idea of charisms in the church.

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These ideas that there's the Holy

Spirit really singles us out and

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spotlights us for specific things

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

wants us to do.

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: 00:06:03

And that just kind of became that like

low key obsession to have that like

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obsessive personality where when I'm

into something, it's all day every day.

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I just learned about it kind of with

no end in mind for a solid decade.

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Wouldn't shut up about it.

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When I was at Benedictine, after I

left Benedictine, and uh, just about

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three years ago, the Holy Spirit

kind of made a very clear path

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into doing this internationally.

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So now we serve people internationally

to help discern their charisms,

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understand, uh, what it is the

Holy Spirit's inviting them to do.

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So I lead a team that helps people do

that, and it's the most amazing job ever.

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

That sounds amazing.

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I love that.

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I, I am with you.

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I feel like that part of the Holy Spirit's

work in the church is so intriguing

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to me and so powerful, and just in the

times that I've been able to experience

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it myself and see those charisms, come

alive, like in others, has been so

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edifying for my faith and for the church,

which is what these charisms are for.

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So.

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Can you start out by just sharing

like what kind of sparked this in you?

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Like what started that journey of how you

became interested in charisms and then

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what actually led you to work with them as

your like day to day, you know, and start?

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Um, many ministries

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: Yeah, so

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In addition to being the obsessive type of

person, I'm also the person who one of the

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obsessions is the best way to do things.

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And so as I was getting ready to go

to college, I was very obsessed with

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like, okay, but I get one shot at

this and I wanna use it correctly

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and what is it that would be the

best expenditure of my time in

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: 00:07:36

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Mm-hmm.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

This is not exactly like your,

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your standard issue, 17 year

old's mindset, but this was very

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

I was thinking about.

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And so I think at some point I googled

literally like, what to do with your

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life Catholic or something like that.

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And you know, this is in 2007, so there's

very little like Catholic internet at this

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yep.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

I'm literally getting like, hits

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from the Vatican website, you

know, this is the point we're at.

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And, so it,

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

I love the ambition.

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I love the ambition.

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I love.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: Yes,

it was very much just like a i, I want

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to shoot this shot as well as I can.

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And so it led me to, I think it was

a Wednesday audience of John Paul.

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The second was the first

exposure talking about charisms.

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Found like in the catechism as

well, and I was like, oh, okay.

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So if for people that are familiar with

this section of the catechism, it's

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from seven 98 to 8 0 1 specifically,

those paragraphs of the catechism and

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paragraph 8 0 1 starts by being like,

in that sense, it is always necessary

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for people to discern their charisms.

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And it's really like going hard

into how important this is.

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So I'm like revved up.

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For paragraph 8 0 2, that's gonna be

like what we do next, and lo and behold,

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that's the last mention of charisms.

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In theism and I was like, wait, what?

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can't tell me that something

is so important and then

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: to do it.

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And so I explored what was

available at that time.

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There wasn't a ton, but what

there was, had to come through

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parish life and so I proposed that

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Mm-hmm.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: parish.

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They were not on board.

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Um.

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Primarily for financial reasons.

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They thought it was a good idea, but

they, there wasn't kind of the bandwidth

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for that, and that just was like a

before and after moment in my life

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where I have that so clear memory of

being a child essentially and being

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like, so you mean that my community

does not have enough money for me

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Hmm

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

understand what it is that the

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Holy Spirit wants me to do?

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And that was like a vow moment where I

was just like, never again, like this.

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: I

have any chance to make this never

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happen to another person again,

that is how I want to spend my life.

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

I love that.

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: 00:09:41

I love that fire.

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I love that passion.

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I can just, like, it's translating,

you know, through our, through our

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call here and I relate to that so much.

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Just like the things that

I'm passionate about.

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It's just like you go full force

and we need people like that in

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our world to make things happen.

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So that's.

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That's amazing.

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: 00:09:56

Um, let's just start with the basics.

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: 00:09:57

I feel like the charismatic world

is still very unfamiliar to a lot of

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Catholics, let's just like break down

for someone who might not be familiar,

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what exactly are charisms and how are

they different from just like natural

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maybe gifts that the Holy Spirit gives

you, or natural talents that God has

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: 00:10:13

maybe, you know, blessed someone with.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: Yeah,

so the definition is, is you know, stated

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in different ways in different places,

but that comes to us through the church,

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is that these are extraordinary graces

of the Holy Spirit given to the faithful

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for the building up of the church.

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So there's kind of those few key elements

that it's coming from the Holy Spirit

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Mm-hmm.

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: 00:10:32

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: to the

individual and that it's for other people.

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: 00:10:34

So that's really what we're getting to.

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With charisms, you're not gonna have a

charism that's like just for yourself or

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something that's just personally edifying.

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The Holy Spirit gives us those things too.

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: 00:10:45

But those aren't charisms.

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: 00:10:47

They're in a different

classification of things.

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: 00:10:49

That's what, like the, gifts of the Holy

Spirit that you learned about like at

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Confirmation or something like that.

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Those are for your personal edification.

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That's for you to be able to be the

Catholic that you are meant to be.

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Charisms are outward facing

and for other people.

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And so that's really

what we're looking at.

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In terms of discerning personal

charisms is where do I fit within the

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larger fabric of the body of Christ?

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How do I come together with other people

to be able to not just sustain the church,

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but actually move it in the direction that

the Holy Spirit is inviting it to move.

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

Absolutely.

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That's amazing.

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: 00:11:27

Why is it so important for people to

discern and understand what charisms are?

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

I think it's different.

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Like it's a different reason

than people might think.

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So a lot of people are like,

oh, I need to know what to do.

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And that's an element of it.

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Like, the opportunities you need

to take and the things you need to.

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Say yes to.

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But an equally important aspect

of charisms is that the aid in

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discerning what to say no to.

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So understanding the seats that are for

you and also the seats that are not for

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

Hmm mm-hmm.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: it's

really humbling how many people will be

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so diligently being that 20% of people

at a parish that do 80% of the things

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. Harming them and the community

that they are doing that.

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And that's a hard reality for

them to face because they're

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: 00:12:14

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

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: 00:12:14

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: I've

been like, I've been trying so hard.

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: 00:12:16

I've been putting so much effort.

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: 00:12:19

And that wasn't the ask like you,

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mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

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jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: supposed

to drive yourself into the ground.

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: 00:12:25

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

And we're not supposed to

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: 00:12:26

be everything to all people.

272

: 00:12:28

Like that's why we have like

multiple parts of the body of Christ.

273

: 00:12:31

Like we can't all be the hands and

the feet and the head, you know?

274

: 00:12:33

We gotta like each take our own role.

275

: 00:12:36

Um, can you share like what

are the different charisms

276

: 00:12:39

that somebody might have?

277

: 00:12:42

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: Yeah,

it's a lengthy list and I, I always

278

: 00:12:45

like to preface the list, but so we, we

help people discern 24 at many parts.

279

: 00:12:50

There's really 26 on the list.

280

: 00:12:52

That was kind of our.

281

: 00:12:53

Standardized lists that we use.

282

: 00:12:55

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Mm-hmm.

283

: 00:12:56

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: and the

two that we don't specifically speak to

284

: 00:12:59

in our resources are public tongues and

interpretation of tongues, because those

285

: 00:13:03

are just discerned in a different way.

286

: 00:13:04

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: I'm just.

287

: 00:13:05

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: but

John Paul is known for saying that,

288

: 00:13:07

that you can't really have a, like,

exhaustive list of the charisms.

289

: 00:13:11

And so there's an important

balance to strike where the, the

290

: 00:13:14

Magisterial Church has not made it.

291

: 00:13:16

Any list available to us because

they're in keeping with that.

292

: 00:13:20

Like we don't wanna limit

the Holy Spirit, et cetera.

293

: 00:13:22

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Mm-hmm.

294

: 00:13:22

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: that.

295

: 00:13:22

I'm all for not, you know,

putting the Holy Spirit in a box.

296

: 00:13:25

But at the same time, it's not

incredibly helpful to take your

297

: 00:13:28

average Sunday churchgoer and saying,

you have to figure this out and

298

: 00:13:31

we're not gonna tell you anything

299

: 00:13:33

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Right.

300

: 00:13:33

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: what

301

: 00:13:33

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

302

: 00:13:34

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: be.

303

: 00:13:35

So the 24 that we talk about.

304

: 00:13:38

things that it's like this is, this

is showing up over and over again.

305

: 00:13:41

So

306

: 00:13:42

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yes.

307

: 00:13:42

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: at

New Testament, you look at the saints,

308

: 00:13:44

you look at church, church history,

we can point like here, here, here

309

: 00:13:47

many, many times, the Holy Spirit is

giving these same things to people.

310

: 00:13:51

So this is a really great list for us to

start with and, and it also really covers.

311

: 00:13:56

The vast majority of the kinds of ways

that people would serve in the church

312

: 00:14:01

now, all of the charisms have so many

different unique expressions of them.

313

: 00:14:05

And you can have two people who

have the same, maybe even three

314

: 00:14:08

or four that they're focused

on in a certain season of life.

315

: 00:14:11

And that expression is 100%

different from each other.

316

: 00:14:14

And I think that that's really where, um.

317

: 00:14:16

The, the creativity of the Holy

Spirit lives is kind of inviting

318

: 00:14:20

us into, once we've got that big

category, what's the unique iteration

319

: 00:14:24

of it that you're meant to live?

320

: 00:14:25

So these are things that are

supernatural and impressive.

321

: 00:14:28

Things like prophecy and healing,

322

: 00:14:31

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Mm-hmm.

323

: 00:14:31

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

things that people would be

324

: 00:14:33

like, that's a spiritual gift.

325

: 00:14:34

Things like, um.

326

: 00:14:35

Financial giving and administration,

hospitality, um, helps, which is

327

: 00:14:40

essentially like being, uh, having that

unique gifting to be like a second in

328

: 00:14:45

command and kind of the behind the scenes

person that makes something really happen.

329

: 00:14:49

Um, service, mercy,

evangelism, missionary.

330

: 00:14:52

So, when you look at all of the

functions of the church, you're

331

: 00:14:55

getting something that's touching

and sustaining those different things

332

: 00:14:59

through all of the different charisms.

333

: 00:15:02

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

That's beautiful.

334

: 00:15:03

What do you feel like are some of maybe

the biggest ones that are misunderstood,

335

: 00:15:08

or what are some misconceptions that

people might have about these charisms?

336

: 00:15:14

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

So I think when you take them as a

337

: 00:15:16

whole, so there's definitely those

things about individual charisms.

338

: 00:15:19

There's, you know, like the idea that.

339

: 00:15:21

Celibacy is reserved for people with

a vocation, a religious vocation.

340

: 00:15:26

That is true.

341

: 00:15:27

You can have an, you know,

a lay individual that's

342

: 00:15:30

called to a celibate life.

343

: 00:15:31

But then there's also things that I

think would be more valuable for us

344

: 00:15:35

to spend our time on is like the, the

whole misconception, and I think one

345

: 00:15:38

of the biggest ones is when people

will kind of misquote, misunderstand.

346

: 00:15:42

Saints, especially Saint John of the

cross in terms of his disposition towards

347

: 00:15:47

spiritual gifts and whether this is

something we should discern and really

348

: 00:15:51

spend time thinking about for ourselves.

349

: 00:15:53

Um, and so there's an argument made that

prideful for you to spend a lot of time

350

: 00:16:00

sort of naval gazing, thinking about

yourself, like what are my charisms and my

351

: 00:16:05

gifts and things like that, and that, that

can become like a self-focused thing, but.

352

: 00:16:11

we apply this logic of

like, what is humility?

353

: 00:16:15

So people would say it's humility

then to not discern your gifts, then

354

: 00:16:20

really breaks apart when we look at

our number one model of humility,

355

: 00:16:23

which is of course the blessed virgin,

where it's humility for her to say yes

356

: 00:16:29

to what she's being asked to do, not

humility for her to say no, because it's

357

: 00:16:33

going to put her in a position where

358

: 00:16:35

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Totally.

359

: 00:16:36

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

are gonna know her story and hear

360

: 00:16:37

about her and things like that.

361

: 00:16:39

And so it's.

362

: 00:16:40

It's the same thing.

363

: 00:16:41

We go back to the parable of the talents

and like who gets in trouble, right?

364

: 00:16:43

As the one who doesn't do anything

with what they've been given.

365

: 00:16:46

And so I think that the.

366

: 00:16:48

Imperative there is like

we've gotta figure out how

367

: 00:16:51

to use what we've been given.

368

: 00:16:52

And if you're a person that struggles

with pride, well then that's gonna

369

: 00:16:55

be your road to virtue right there.

370

: 00:16:56

You get that opportunity to kind of

have a laboratory to work on that.

371

: 00:17:01

But just because you have that tendency

towards pride , doesn't mean you get to

372

: 00:17:05

just like skip and not even be put in a

place where pride could show up just like

373

: 00:17:11

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Right.

374

: 00:17:13

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: If

the physical aspects of a marriage are

375

: 00:17:15

challenging for you, you don't necessarily

just get called to religious life.

376

: 00:17:19

Sometimes you're called into a

marriage and you're actually called

377

: 00:17:22

to like heal and address those things.

378

: 00:17:24

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Mm-hmm.

379

: 00:17:25

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: the

same with our charisms, like there's,

380

: 00:17:27

it's gonna come up in certain places

against things that we're like,

381

: 00:17:30

gosh, I just, I feel like this is

putting me in a primarily prideful

382

: 00:17:35

position, or something like that.

383

: 00:17:36

And then that's something we

need to address in ourself.

384

: 00:17:38

That's not a reason to not do what

the Holy Spirit is asking us to do.

385

: 00:17:42

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

That's such an interesting argument.

386

: 00:17:44

I haven't heard that before, and I

feel like that's such a, you know,

387

: 00:17:48

strategic way that Evil one will use

to get us to avoid learning about

388

: 00:17:54

these charisms, owning 'em, discerning

' em, and then using 'em, right?

389

: 00:17:58

Because.

390

: 00:17:58

If the purpose of these are to build

up the church, to set the church

391

: 00:18:02

on fire, to edify our own and other

people's faiths, well of course,

392

: 00:18:06

even one's gonna be like, no, no, no.

393

: 00:18:08

Like be humble, you know,

don't explore these.

394

: 00:18:10

Keep these to yourselves.

395

: 00:18:11

Which again, I love that you tied

it into the parable of the talents.

396

: 00:18:13

That makes so much sense,

397

: 00:18:14

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: Mm-hmm.

398

: 00:18:14

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

the Holy Spirit and the Lord are

399

: 00:18:15

probably looking at you like.

400

: 00:18:17

I gave, I gave you these things,

you know, don't bury them.

401

: 00:18:21

Um, I spent some time working as a focus

missionary and we did some different

402

: 00:18:26

Holy Spirit boot camps and we didn't

fully do like one of the exams to like,

403

: 00:18:31

discern your charisms, but we saw a lot

of them come up in these, situations.

404

: 00:18:35

And I had a lot of questions from

students about, specifically I think

405

: 00:18:40

ones that are very intriguing to people.

406

: 00:18:42

Tongues and healing and

prophecy, which you mentioned.

407

: 00:18:46

And I know there's a lot of skepticism

around, especially tongues and prophecy.

408

: 00:18:52

'cause people are like, well, how

do we know you're not making it up?

409

: 00:18:55

How do, like, how do we know

you're not saying gibberish?

410

: 00:18:57

Or how do you know that God actually,

you know, put this message on your heart?

411

: 00:19:01

What would you say to those people?

412

: 00:19:03

Or how would you kind of, you

know, dive into those a little

413

: 00:19:05

bit more and explain 'em.

414

: 00:19:07

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

Yeah, so tongues is an

415

: 00:19:08

interesting and unique situation.

416

: 00:19:10

So just like we talked about in charisms

in general, there are things that the Holy

417

: 00:19:14

Spirit gives us to edify us personally,

and there's things that he gives us to

418

: 00:19:18

edify the community, and that's charisms.

419

: 00:19:20

So.

420

: 00:19:20

So public tongues.

421

: 00:19:22

So what happens right after Pentecost

when Peter goes and preaches and is

422

: 00:19:27

heard by people in their own languages

and things like that, that is an

423

: 00:19:32

expression of a charism of tongues,

which is always public tongues.

424

: 00:19:35

So it's always for other people.

425

: 00:19:37

you are a person who is involved

in , the charismatic movement or

426

: 00:19:41

something like that, and have been

given the gift to pray in tongues,

427

: 00:19:45

that is for your personal edification.

428

: 00:19:47

We also see this in the New

Testament where, Paul says, deeply

429

: 00:19:50

desire that you should prophesy

because that edifies other people.

430

: 00:19:53

But if you're praying in tongues

like that, edifies really only you.

431

: 00:19:56

So, so that's something

that's focused on yourself.

432

: 00:19:59

So again, in saying something is for you.

433

: 00:20:03

And edifies you versus a community.

434

: 00:20:05

That's not to say, so that's bad and don't

do that, and that's not a real thing.

435

: 00:20:09

It's to say that's just for you.

436

: 00:20:11

That's not for other people.

437

: 00:20:12

There's not gonna be a

benefit to other people.

438

: 00:20:14

You don't have to prove to

somebody else that you are

439

: 00:20:16

really praying in tongues like.

440

: 00:20:19

You know, and that is for

your personal edification.

441

: 00:20:23

So that's kind of all that's

necessary in that situation.

442

: 00:20:26

It's incredibly rare in the modern church

to see instances of public tongues.

443

: 00:20:31

So for instance, I've been given

the gift of personal tongues for

444

: 00:20:35

prayer, and that's something that

I use in my personal edification.

445

: 00:20:39

I would never.

446

: 00:20:40

Like assume that then

I have public tongues.

447

: 00:20:43

I've never had an experience like that.

448

: 00:20:44

I've never had anything

449

: 00:20:46

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Mm-hmm.

450

: 00:20:47

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

the Holy Spirit is inviting that

451

: 00:20:48

because public tongues will always

be edifying to the other people.

452

: 00:20:51

So it'll either be in their language

and they understand it, or there

453

: 00:20:55

will be someone with the 26th charism

interpretation of tongues who's there

454

: 00:20:59

to be able to say, this is what is.

455

: 00:21:02

Being said.

456

: 00:21:02

And so those things are not impossible,

but they're extremely rare and your

457

: 00:21:07

vast majority of people even involved

in the charismatic movement will

458

: 00:21:10

not be people that have experienced,

that I know of two stories, wasn't

459

: 00:21:14

personally present at either of them.

460

: 00:21:16

So they're, you know,

secondhand knowledge.

461

: 00:21:18

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

462

: 00:21:18

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

so it doesn't, it's not that it

463

: 00:21:19

doesn't happen, it's just very rare

you look at prophecy and healing.

464

: 00:21:24

That's where we're just looking at

really embracing the Lord's call before

465

: 00:21:28

his ascension that he says, you are

gonna do more amazing things than I did.

466

: 00:21:34

And so if you're like, oh, but we

can't heal or prophesy, then like, what

467

: 00:21:37

more amazing things are we gonna do?

468

: 00:21:39

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

Right, right.

469

: 00:21:41

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

that's kind of what he has shown us.

470

: 00:21:43

He's given us the example of that.

471

: 00:21:45

And

472

: 00:21:45

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

473

: 00:21:46

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: Not

everybody is gonna be asked to do

474

: 00:21:48

those things, but there are definitely

people who have been given that

475

: 00:21:52

ability through a specific charism,

and you always are looking at things

476

: 00:21:57

by their fruit, so by their fruits

you will know them from Matthew.

477

: 00:22:00

And it's the same with the charisms.

478

: 00:22:02

Like if you're someone who's saying,

we're gonna pray for healing, and

479

: 00:22:05

then we start invoking some name

that's not Trinitarian, well like.

480

: 00:22:09

The fruit of that is that no,

like this isn't coming from God.

481

: 00:22:13

Does it matter what we see

happen or perceive happens?

482

: 00:22:17

Um, that's a, apart from the unity

of the church, same with prophecy.

483

: 00:22:21

Someone saying, you know, I see all

these horrible things that you've done

484

: 00:22:25

and you have so much to atone for it.

485

: 00:22:26

All of those things that doesn't pass the

check of what God's voice sounds like.

486

: 00:22:31

So

487

: 00:22:31

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Right.

488

: 00:22:32

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

However, are going to be a valid

489

: 00:22:34

instance of prophecy, and so there's

discernment needed on the part of

490

: 00:22:38

the person having the charism and

then receiving healing and prophecy.

491

: 00:22:42

There's always discernment

on your own part.

492

: 00:22:44

Does this sound like the Lord does this?

493

: 00:22:48

Look like how he moves.

494

: 00:22:50

Um, even if I'm not experiencing

like healing or a supernatural

495

: 00:22:55

image, is it something that's still

allowing me to feel the love of God?

496

: 00:22:58

And that's really the litmus

test for all of the charisms.

497

: 00:23:02

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

Yeah, of course.

498

: 00:23:03

That makes sense.

499

: 00:23:04

How can someone even begin to

discern this process for themselves

500

: 00:23:08

of like, what are my charisms.

501

: 00:23:11

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: So many

people are familiar with like different

502

: 00:23:13

tests and assessments and things, and

the reason for that, and that's what we

503

: 00:23:16

lead with in a lot of cases, is because

the necessary thing is not a specific

504

: 00:23:20

assessment or test, but you have to

have objective outside perspective.

505

: 00:23:24

And that's really hard to get if you

don't use a tool like a test or something.

506

: 00:23:30

Because you just sitting in a

room and thinking about yourself

507

: 00:23:33

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: yeah.

508

: 00:23:34

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: not

gonna be accurate in a lot of situations.

509

: 00:23:36

And it's rare to have someone who knows

and understands you holistically enough

510

: 00:23:42

to be able to speak to those things.

511

: 00:23:44

And, and the holistic part really

comes in from like, I know that

512

: 00:23:47

you're married, I'm married.

513

: 00:23:48

Our spouses only see us in a,

a certain part of our lives.

514

: 00:23:52

And so when I am.

515

: 00:23:54

You know, working and

speaking and things like that.

516

: 00:23:56

My husband's not present at most of

them 'cause he is with our children.

517

: 00:23:59

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Right.

518

: 00:24:00

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: so he

is though he is, you know, looking to

519

: 00:24:02

be supportive, he's not gonna have a

full understanding of the way that I, I

520

: 00:24:05

show up in these different situations.

521

: 00:24:07

And so sometimes if you have a really

knowledgeable, good spiritual director,

522

: 00:24:11

you're able to start there if they

like really know you inside and out

523

: 00:24:14

and be able to have that conversation.

524

: 00:24:16

But if you don't have a person

like that, that's why an

525

: 00:24:18

assessment is really helpful.

526

: 00:24:19

We have an assessment that's all digital

at many parts that people can just.

527

: 00:24:23

Like pop on our website and take,

and that's a great first step because

528

: 00:24:26

then it narrows the playing field so

you're not discerning from a list of

529

: 00:24:29

26, you're discerning from a list of

like 5, 6, 7 that are actually likely.

530

: 00:24:35

And then from there you're looking

to like winnow it down and have

531

: 00:24:39

those conversations with the

Holy Spirit test things out and

532

: 00:24:43

going into those opportunities.

533

: 00:24:45

That you have to test them.

534

: 00:24:46

Just ask the Holy Spirit to really

teach you and show you if this is

535

: 00:24:51

something that he's calling you to do.

536

: 00:24:53

And there may be charisms that you

discern, you do have, but they might

537

: 00:24:57

not be the primary call of even

a specific season of your life.

538

: 00:25:02

And so the discernment goes beyond

just, do I have this at all?

539

: 00:25:06

And more into like, holy Spirit,

what do you have for me right now?

540

: 00:25:10

Because especially as people progress

spiritually grow more in intimate.

541

: 00:25:14

God, they have more charisms, but

that doesn't mean now they're meant

542

: 00:25:18

to be more things to all people.

543

: 00:25:19

There's still a nucleus of core things

that they are being called to do and they

544

: 00:25:26

are going to be able to experience, and

we all are gonna be able to experience

545

: 00:25:29

the fruits of the Holy Spirit most freely

when we are really kind of ruthless

546

: 00:25:34

about staying with that nucleus of

what it is that we've been asked to do.

547

: 00:25:38

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Mm-hmm.

548

: 00:25:39

And this assessment that you guys do.

549

: 00:25:41

is it like a written assessment?

550

: 00:25:43

What does that look like?

551

: 00:25:44

Like what kind of

questions are you asking?

552

: 00:25:46

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

Yeah, so there's a number of questions

553

: 00:25:48

around, so ours is entirely digital.

554

: 00:25:50

I think that there's written

ones available in other,

555

: 00:25:53

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Mm-hmm.

556

: 00:25:54

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: We

do an all digital one so that at the

557

: 00:25:56

end it can be automatically scored.

558

: 00:25:58

You don't have to do any math,

559

: 00:26:00

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Perfect.

560

: 00:26:00

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: you

a PDF that explains really in depth.

561

: 00:26:04

Kind of your situation, uh,

coming out of the assessment.

562

: 00:26:08

And so it's like 25 pages long,

that's just about you and what your

563

: 00:26:12

unique situation is with the charisms.

564

: 00:26:14

And the idea is to just kind of

look at what are the common things

565

: 00:26:19

we see someone has a charism?

566

: 00:26:22

So we've kind of taken people who

have it and then reverse engineered

567

: 00:26:26

what questions would get us there

568

: 00:26:27

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Hmm.

569

: 00:26:28

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: like.

570

: 00:26:29

you know, would make sense for

a person with a specific gift.

571

: 00:26:32

And so there's nothing magical, there's

nothing supernatural about the assessment.

572

: 00:26:35

It's a tool that reflects

back what you put into it.

573

: 00:26:38

So I've had someone be like, well,

I lied on all the questions and it,

574

: 00:26:42

it didn't gimme the right answer.

575

: 00:26:44

And I was like, yes.

576

: 00:26:45

Like, it's not gonna like circumvent you.

577

: 00:26:48

You know, like it's

something, it's just a tool

578

: 00:26:51

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

It's just a tool.

579

: 00:26:52

It's just a computer.

580

: 00:26:53

It's not God.

581

: 00:26:53

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: Exactly.

582

: 00:26:54

Yes.

583

: 00:26:56

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: It's

funny, um, these charisms that we're

584

: 00:26:58

gifted with do the same charisms stay

with us throughout our entire lives.

585

: 00:27:03

Um, I feel like you've mentioned here and

there like, you know, maybe in a season.

586

: 00:27:06

So it kind of sounds like it doesn't,

like it sounds like it could maybe

587

: 00:27:09

shift depending on the season we're in.

588

: 00:27:11

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

So what happens a lot is that

589

: 00:27:13

the things will shift in primacy.

590

: 00:27:15

So what is primary in my season of life?

591

: 00:27:19

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Okay.

592

: 00:27:19

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

in keeping with the, the abundance

593

: 00:27:21

of God, this isn't a, like, I need

last year's birthday gift back

594

: 00:27:24

before I can give you this year's

birthday gift kind of situation.

595

: 00:27:27

Like it's additive where people

will have received charisms and

596

: 00:27:31

then they're receiving more.

597

: 00:27:33

And it very frequently happens that

the new ones that they receive become.

598

: 00:27:37

The call in later seasons of life,

for instance, you might have someone,

599

: 00:27:41

um, it's kind of a common journey for

someone to have the charism of like

600

: 00:27:46

mercy from baptism and for them to

just have this huge heart for social

601

: 00:27:51

justice and like really care about

the marginalized and things like that.

602

: 00:27:55

And maybe that is not.

603

: 00:27:56

Perceived as a part of

their faith life at all.

604

: 00:27:59

That's something that feels like

totally separate, maybe solely

605

: 00:28:02

political, whatever the case might be.

606

: 00:28:05

then when a conversion experience

happens, there's this fire for actual

607

: 00:28:11

evangelism that takes over and though

it's still tinged with that mercy.

608

: 00:28:16

Maybe the day job isn't knocking doors

with this heart of mercy anymore.

609

: 00:28:20

It's knocking doors with this

heart of evangelism now, and it's.

610

: 00:28:23

Continuing to add to who they are.

611

: 00:28:27

I had a long period when I was running

Pink Salt Riot where, um, writing.

612

: 00:28:32

Leadership and craftsmanship

were the primary charisms in my

613

: 00:28:35

life, and I was using those very

heavily in what I was doing.

614

: 00:28:39

And in the shift between leaving Pink

Salt Riot and coming, I, I did them

615

: 00:28:44

both for a while, but once the kind of

full switch happened, I really noticed

616

: 00:28:49

a seasonal change in my charisms

were, now it's leadership knowledge

617

: 00:28:52

and prophecy that are most kind.

618

: 00:28:55

Used every day.

619

: 00:28:56

And it's funny because all of my

books have been written since the

620

: 00:29:00

shift away from writing, but it's

because it's about knowledge now.

621

: 00:29:05

So like how I write the books

is thinking about like, it's not

622

: 00:29:07

that I just need to write, it's

that I need to share what I know

623

: 00:29:11

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Mm-hmm.

624

: 00:29:11

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

this topic.

625

: 00:29:12

And so it continues to just be additive.

626

: 00:29:14

So even though now I'm like,

will not just take every writing.

627

: 00:29:19

Opportunity the way I would have before.

628

: 00:29:22

if it's an opportunity to share

the specific knowledge that I've

629

: 00:29:25

been given, kind of whatever

forum that's in, I will take

630

: 00:29:28

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

631

: 00:29:28

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: Just

kind of those shifts in how we discern

632

: 00:29:31

the individual opportunities that we have.

633

: 00:29:34

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

634

: 00:29:34

Okay.

635

: 00:29:35

That's really interesting.

636

: 00:29:36

And what about like the role of community?

637

: 00:29:39

What does, what role does community

play in helping us discover

638

: 00:29:42

and confirm those charisms.

639

: 00:29:45

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

you know, it's.

640

: 00:29:47

It's one of the only times in the

spiritual life where I feel like we

641

: 00:29:51

actually want to listen and make decisions

based on what other people are saying.

642

: 00:29:58

that can really be like

a people pleasing space

643

: 00:30:01

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Right.

644

: 00:30:02

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

what do you want me to do?

645

: 00:30:03

I'll just do

646

: 00:30:03

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

647

: 00:30:04

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: But

with our charisms, we actually have

648

: 00:30:06

to have that input from other people

because you can know if you did the

649

: 00:30:10

action of the charism, you can know that

you prayed for healing, that you tried

650

: 00:30:14

to encourage someone, that you gave

someone a financial gift, but you don't

651

: 00:30:18

actually know if that had supernatural

effectiveness and fruit unless you get.

652

: 00:30:23

The feedback on it.

653

: 00:30:25

And so that feedback is most

important during discernment.

654

: 00:30:28

Once we've moved out of discernment and

we're like, this is the job, then it's

655

: 00:30:32

important that we kind of red detach from

getting feedback on every single instance

656

: 00:30:38

of everything because we don't wanna make

it about, um, I want the warm fuzzies

657

: 00:30:42

of the person that said I'm fantastic.

658

: 00:30:45

It really is like I'm trying to be

faithful to the job description here, and

659

: 00:30:49

we notice that shift the Holy Spirit is.

660

: 00:30:51

Really generous with the feedback.

661

: 00:30:53

Typically, when you are intentionally

trying to discern and when time has come

662

: 00:30:57

where you've committed to, like, I think

it's these three in this season, this

663

: 00:31:01

is what I wanna focus on, you're moving

into kind of the rest of this season.

664

: 00:31:07

A lot of times there will be less

of those like constant warm fuzzies,

665

: 00:31:11

affirmations, et cetera, and

666

: 00:31:12

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

667

: 00:31:13

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

What happened?

668

: 00:31:14

Did I discern wrong?

669

: 00:31:15

And no, it's that we're actually

moving into like doing the work of

670

: 00:31:18

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yep.

671

: 00:31:19

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

specific gifts.

672

: 00:31:19

So we want to definitely be thinking

about that community feedback and,

673

: 00:31:23

and it definitely continues in

some cases where we're constantly

674

: 00:31:27

sharing our charisms with them.

675

: 00:31:28

We're receiving their charisms as well.

676

: 00:31:31

And when we're

677

: 00:31:31

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

678

: 00:31:32

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

this is something we can give

679

: 00:31:33

others feedback on as well.

680

: 00:31:34

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

681

: 00:31:35

Okay.

682

: 00:31:36

Yeah, that makes sense.

683

: 00:31:37

Can you share a story like.

684

: 00:31:39

This is all like, you know, has been

kind of conceptual knowledge like, but I

685

: 00:31:42

would really love to hear a story of like

someone who came alive in their faith

686

: 00:31:47

or in their parish and you're able to

kind of see this charism come to life.

687

: 00:31:52

After discovering what those were.

688

: 00:31:55

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: Yeah,

I have so many, and one of, probably one

689

: 00:31:57

of my favorites to tell is with a lot

of people will come to discerning their

690

: 00:32:01

charisms because they wanna change jobs.

691

: 00:32:04

They're like, I hate what I'm

doing right now, and I want to.

692

: 00:32:07

Something else.

693

: 00:32:08

So what are my charisms?

694

: 00:32:09

I'm gonna figure that out

to do something different.

695

: 00:32:11

So around the same time, probably seven

years ago, eight years ago, I had two

696

: 00:32:15

different RNs come to me, both like, we're

gonna quit our job prophetically, maybe

697

: 00:32:20

COVID was coming and they didn't know

698

: 00:32:22

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yes.

699

: 00:32:22

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: but

they were like, we wanna quit our

700

: 00:32:24

job, so we wanna leave healthcare.

701

: 00:32:26

Um, and we wanna figure out

what it is we're supposed to do.

702

: 00:32:28

So they

703

: 00:32:29

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

704

: 00:32:29

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

Took their assessments and went

705

: 00:32:31

through a discernment process.

706

: 00:32:32

And long story short, there was a lot

of feedback from people and clear,

707

: 00:32:37

clear words from the Holy Spirit.

708

: 00:32:38

But one of the nurses realized that

her primary charism was healing, and

709

: 00:32:44

she realized she was so exhausted

and strung out from doing this job

710

: 00:32:49

because she was literally using such

a large amount of effort to hold back.

711

: 00:32:54

The Holy Spirit all the time

because she was like, no, I'm

712

: 00:32:57

not gonna pray for healing.

713

: 00:32:58

I'm not gonna, you

714

: 00:32:58

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Hello.

715

: 00:32:59

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

this is my job.

716

: 00:33:00

This is like, you know, a secular setting,

717

: 00:33:02

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Keep it

718

: 00:33:03

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: this

719

: 00:33:03

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

professional.

720

: 00:33:03

Yeah.

721

: 00:33:04

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

right now.

722

: 00:33:05

Exactly.

723

: 00:33:06

And so she was actually

at a Catholic hospital.

724

: 00:33:09

Um, but you know, as you know.

725

: 00:33:11

The, clientele of a Catholic

726

: 00:33:13

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

727

: 00:33:13

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

the entire gamut.

728

: 00:33:14

And so she asked her supervisor

if she could pray for healing

729

: 00:33:17

for people that she saw.

730

: 00:33:19

And they were like, you can

ask, you know, if they say No,

731

: 00:33:21

don't, of course, sure, that's

732

: 00:33:23

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

733

: 00:33:23

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

Um, and so last time I talked

734

: 00:33:25

to her, no one had said no.

735

: 00:33:27

And she had started seeing not just

physical healing, but emotional

736

: 00:33:31

healing and mental healing

and all of these other things.

737

: 00:33:35

And she's like, I have the

best freaking job in the world.

738

: 00:33:37

Like this is the coolest thing ever.

739

: 00:33:40

And then the other RN.

740

: 00:33:42

Same job, same situation.

741

: 00:33:44

Healing was like in the

bottom three or something.

742

: 00:33:47

Like she didn't have healing at all

743

: 00:33:49

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

It is true.

744

: 00:33:50

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

clear top was hospitality and she

745

: 00:33:54

was an ICU nurse and was just like

I, I never thought about it that way.

746

: 00:34:00

I never thought about this being an

opportunity to make somebody feel welcome.

747

: 00:34:06

The phrase we kind of landed on is

like making people feel welcome in

748

: 00:34:09

the scariest room of their life.

749

: 00:34:11

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Um,

750

: 00:34:11

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

And she was like, that is just, that

751

: 00:34:14

just fires me up to think about that.

752

: 00:34:16

And so as soon as all of the medical

things that she did, obviously

753

: 00:34:19

she still to, to my knowledge,

like practiced the medicine of

754

: 00:34:23

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: right.

755

: 00:34:24

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

and stuff like that.

756

: 00:34:25

But her focus, her why she was in

the room, to make people feel welcome

757

: 00:34:31

in the scariest room of their life.

758

: 00:34:33

And same thing, she was like.

759

: 00:34:35

This is so great and so we see this

time and time again where like people

760

: 00:34:39

are already doing the right things,

but they don't understand why and they

761

: 00:34:43

are not experiencing any of the fruits

of the Holy Spirit that are available

762

: 00:34:48

to them in that space because they

do not understand why they are there.

763

: 00:34:52

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: I love

hearing stories like that, and that is so

764

: 00:34:55

cool to hear exactly what you just said,

like they were already in the right space,

765

: 00:34:59

but actually getting that knowledge.

766

: 00:35:02

And understanding of what are the

charisms I've been given and how can I use

767

: 00:35:07

those and apply those to my daily life?

768

: 00:35:09

I think a lot of people might, you

know, even listeners now listen

769

: 00:35:12

to this conversation and feel

like it has to be a new thing.

770

: 00:35:15

You know, when I learn these

charisms, I have to shift my life.

771

: 00:35:17

I have to change who I am.

772

: 00:35:18

I have to, you know, switch

jobs or, or join in a new

773

: 00:35:21

program to be able to use these.

774

: 00:35:23

But I love that actually.

775

: 00:35:25

Knowing more of who God made you to

be allows you to use those gifts in

776

: 00:35:30

your current day-to-day life already.

777

: 00:35:31

It doesn't have to be overly complicated.

778

: 00:35:34

And these women like came alive

in their, you know, job vocations

779

: 00:35:39

once they gained that knowledge.

780

: 00:35:42

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: Mm-hmm.

781

: 00:35:42

Yep.

782

: 00:35:43

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: And

I feel like, you know, throughout this

783

: 00:35:45

conversation you've brought up , you know,

community and sharing your charisms and

784

: 00:35:50

receiving others and giving that feedback.

785

: 00:35:52

And that's an ideal.

786

: 00:35:53

Painted picture, I feel like of what

we would want the church to look like.

787

: 00:35:57

All of us discerning our charisms,

using our charisms, sharing them.

788

: 00:36:00

Can you just kind of share like what

would a parish look like when people

789

: 00:36:05

are fully living out their charisms?

790

: 00:36:08

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: Yeah.

791

: 00:36:08

This is what

792

: 00:36:09

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: I.

793

: 00:36:10

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

our programs for parishes are really

794

: 00:36:11

built around, and it's this idea that

you actually can create a culture

795

: 00:36:16

of charisms in a parish where it's

not necessarily that everyone is

796

: 00:36:21

like the most spiritually diligent

people in the entire world and all

797

: 00:36:24

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Mm-hmm.

798

: 00:36:25

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

It's just that.

799

: 00:36:26

This is how we all talk

about these things.

800

: 00:36:29

And so when there's an open role on

the parish council, we're talking about

801

: 00:36:32

like what charisms would be ideal.

802

: 00:36:34

Like, that we're kind of missing

right now in the mix that we have.

803

: 00:36:38

Or we're looking for a new person to,

um, be in charge of VBS for the summer.

804

: 00:36:43

Like what are we looking for?

805

: 00:36:45

Um, well, I'm gonna volunteer for this

because I have this charism and it's.

806

: 00:36:49

Been made clear in the materials

that that's what they're looking for.

807

: 00:36:53

And this becomes like a shared

language, which is a huge part

808

: 00:36:56

of cohesion within a community.

809

: 00:36:58

There's a fantastic book, um, called

Cults about like language homogeny and

810

: 00:37:04

how like everything from MLMs to orange

theory to everything will use this where.

811

: 00:37:10

You all have a kind of internal

language that you're using to talk

812

: 00:37:14

about things, and we already have

this in a big way as Catholics when

813

: 00:37:16

we talk about the Eucharist and

814

: 00:37:17

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Totally.

815

: 00:37:18

Yeah.

816

: 00:37:18

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

other things that aren't a part of the

817

: 00:37:20

lexicon, but the idea and really very

much our mission, the, the mission

818

: 00:37:25

of my organization is to make it an

expected part of being a Catholic adult

819

: 00:37:29

who have discerned your charisms so

that this is something when you come

820

: 00:37:32

to a new parish, you can literally

go to your priest and be like.

821

: 00:37:35

This is what I have to bring to the table.

822

: 00:37:37

Like these are my charisms

and he knows what those are.

823

: 00:37:40

And then he's able to say,

okay, yeah, that's where this

824

: 00:37:43

would fit in, into our parish.

825

: 00:37:45

And it's not something that's, demanding,

like this level of unattainable,

826

: 00:37:50

spiritual excellence from everyone.

827

: 00:37:51

It's something where we just need to be.

828

: 00:37:53

Knowledgeable and

accurate about ourselves.

829

: 00:37:56

And that is something that's actually

an attainable goal for a parish

830

: 00:38:01

to really create this culture.

831

: 00:38:03

And it goes beyond having, like

we've had this one event about

832

: 00:38:07

charisms, which is how things have

kind of been for the last 30 years.

833

: 00:38:10

It's like we've done a one day thing

then it's all ball in your court

834

: 00:38:15

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Right.

835

: 00:38:15

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

follow up, figure it out, et cetera.

836

: 00:38:17

And we just don't believe

that that's a sustainable way.

837

: 00:38:20

Like it's a great.

838

: 00:38:21

Get your,

839

: 00:38:22

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

Great start.

840

: 00:38:23

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: the

door, but we need other structures.

841

: 00:38:25

So that's what we build for parishes, is

842

: 00:38:27

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Cool.

843

: 00:38:28

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

initial structures and then all the

844

: 00:38:29

support structures that will be forever,

that we'll actually be able to create

845

: 00:38:34

that kind of culture moving forward.

846

: 00:38:35

And we do that for both

parishes and diocese.

847

: 00:38:38

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

That sounds amazing.

848

: 00:38:38

So if somebody is listening AKA me and

it's like, I wanna bring this to my

849

: 00:38:42

parish, how do you go about doing that?

850

: 00:38:45

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

Yeah, so we have pages for interest

851

: 00:38:47

for youth ministry programs, parish

programs, diocesan programs, and

852

: 00:38:51

then we have staff that manage

all of those different programs.

853

: 00:38:55

So we always have somebody just

sign up for a 20 minute call.

854

: 00:38:58

It's not

855

: 00:38:59

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Awesome.

856

: 00:38:59

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

at the end where you have to

857

: 00:39:00

make some high pressure decision.

858

: 00:39:02

It's simply to share with you

about what it is that we have.

859

: 00:39:05

And if it's not a fit for your parish,

we don't want you to move forward.

860

: 00:39:08

Like we want you to only do the things.

861

: 00:39:10

That are going to actually be life giving

to your youth ministry program, your

862

: 00:39:14

parish, your diocese, and we can help

you understand what it is we can give you

863

: 00:39:20

so that you can understand if that's a

fit for what it is that your goals are.

864

: 00:39:24

'cause every parish is gonna

have different needs be in

865

: 00:39:26

different places, et cetera.

866

: 00:39:28

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Mm-hmm.

867

: 00:39:29

Okay.

868

: 00:39:30

Awesome.

869

: 00:39:30

So good to know.

870

: 00:39:31

I think my last question would

be for a little listener who

871

: 00:39:35

maybe just feels like ordinary.

872

: 00:39:37

You know, I know that I've,

I've encountered a lot of

873

: 00:39:40

people in the past where like.

874

: 00:39:41

Well, God gave you these gifts, but like

I just don't have these things, you know?

875

: 00:39:45

I'm just not like that.

876

: 00:39:46

So for someone who just feels

like, you know, I'm just ordinary.

877

: 00:39:49

I don't even know If I have any of these

things, I don't really have much to offer.

878

: 00:39:53

What encouragement and just words

of truth would you give them?

879

: 00:39:57

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: If I

had about three minutes with them, I

880

: 00:39:58

could tell them pretty accurately, like

what is most likely their charisms.

881

: 00:40:03

And it's probably It's simply

things that you've never ascribed

882

: 00:40:09

a spiritual value to, and it's

something that you've never mapped

883

: 00:40:13

to being your role within the church.

884

: 00:40:15

And so I'd love to share

a brief story, if I may.

885

: 00:40:18

Um.

886

: 00:40:18

I have a member of my family

who's on the spectrum.

887

: 00:40:22

He's an adult.

888

: 00:40:23

He was able to, um, on a little

later timeline than other people,

889

: 00:40:27

but eventually, like live on his own.

890

: 00:40:29

And, um, he is a hazmat trucker.

891

: 00:40:33

So, his motto is, if you

don't almost die at work every

892

: 00:40:35

day, what are you even doing?

893

: 00:40:38

and is a wonderful, like, faithful man.

894

: 00:40:42

But because of his trucking schedule

and things like that isn't always

895

: 00:40:45

at the same parish every week

896

: 00:40:47

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

897

: 00:40:47

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: you

know, he's very introverted, et cetera.

898

: 00:40:49

So he is got these specific things and

to his chagrin, I finally talked him into

899

: 00:40:55

going through this process with me, and as

we went through the pro process, it really

900

: 00:40:59

rose to the top that his primary charisms

were giving discernment and wisdom.

901

: 00:41:05

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Hmm.

902

: 00:41:06

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

he was in a very well paying job.

903

: 00:41:08

He's discerned, celibacy is

up there for him as well.

904

: 00:41:10

He's discerned that he's

supposed to be single.

905

: 00:41:12

Um, for now at least who knows

what the Holy Spirit will do,

906

: 00:41:15

and he's extremely generous with.

907

: 00:41:17

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Hmm.

908

: 00:41:18

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

What he's received and he teared up

909

: 00:41:21

and said, you mean I'm already doing

everything I'm supposed to be doing?

910

: 00:41:26

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Um.

911

: 00:41:26

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: the

weight of the shame and the embarrassment

912

: 00:41:30

that he wasn't at the same parish

every Sunday, that he wasn't, um,

913

: 00:41:34

going to a young adult's thing, that he

914

: 00:41:36

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

915

: 00:41:37

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

attending any of the like dating

916

: 00:41:39

singles, mixers, whatever was.

917

: 00:41:41

Crushing him on a daily basis.

918

: 00:41:43

And there are millions of people like

this where the, the fear and the shame

919

: 00:41:48

of what you think the ask might be

920

: 00:41:51

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355: Yeah.

921

: 00:41:52

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: And

so it's worth the little bit of time

922

: 00:41:54

to figure out what the ask actually is,

and I promise in every single situation.

923

: 00:42:01

It's that little like

flicker of like, dare.

924

: 00:42:03

I hope that that is exactly

what I was hoping for.

925

: 00:42:05

Like that is exactly what I would love.

926

: 00:42:08

And that is what happens when

your creator, your designer,

927

: 00:42:12

chooses a role for you.

928

: 00:42:14

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

Um, that is so well said.

929

: 00:42:16

And I'm sure is bringing a

lot of comfort to people.

930

: 00:42:19

I hope that that was Yeah, encouraging.

931

: 00:42:21

Thank you.

932

: 00:42:22

Thank you for sharing all your

knowledge here and all your wisdom.

933

: 00:42:26

And also just like bringing the

fire and the passion, like I said,

934

: 00:42:28

it translates so well, and yeah, it

just sounds like you, you are truly

935

: 00:42:32

in the charisms, the Lord has given

you and living those out as well.

936

: 00:42:36

So if people wanna learn more about

you, connect with your ministry,

937

: 00:42:40

where should they find more of you.

938

: 00:42:42

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355: So we

are many parts ministries everywhere.

939

: 00:42:45

You can find us at many Parts ministries

on all social media channels, on YouTube.

940

: 00:42:49

Um, our website is.

941

: 00:42:51

Parts ministries.com

942

: 00:42:53

and our podcast is called

Charisms for Catholics.

943

: 00:42:55

If you're a podcast listener, um,

it is just like all free content.

944

: 00:43:00

You can learn like hundreds of hours

at this point of things about charisms,

945

: 00:43:05

so that you just feel confident

in your own discernment, your own

946

: 00:43:08

understanding of what they are.

947

: 00:43:10

Uh, it's the podcast that I

wanted to binge when I was 17, so

948

: 00:43:14

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

I love it.

949

: 00:43:14

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

of fun to bring it to other people.

950

: 00:43:17

mari-wagner_1_09-03-2025_120355:

I will be binging that.

951

: 00:43:18

Uh, and we'll make sure to

include all that in the show

952

: 00:43:20

notes so you can find it easily.

953

: 00:43:22

And that's all we have for today.

954

: 00:43:24

But Thank you so much,

Jill, for coming on.

955

: 00:43:26

jill-simons_1_09-03-2025_130355:

Thank you for having me.

956

: 00:43:28

mw-host150_1_10-15-2025_104337:

That was such a good episode.

957

: 00:43:30

I left that conversation feeling so fired

up and feeling like I want to live life

958

: 00:43:36

more deeply in the Holy Spirit and really

opened myself to all the gifts possible,

959

: 00:43:41

um, that the Lord has in store for me.

960

: 00:43:42

So I hope that you felt the same way.

961

: 00:43:43

I love the Holy Spirit.

962

: 00:43:45

Okay, let's move into ever be

Answers our last segment of the day.

963

: 00:43:49

Today we are answering one question on

the podcast and then the rest at the

964

: 00:43:53

after party episode, which is exclusive to

our Patreon community, the Kingdom Club.

965

: 00:43:57

So if you wanna listen in on those

questions, make sure to click the

966

: 00:44:00

link in the show notes to join.

967

: 00:44:03

The three questions for today are, do

you ever have Catholic guilt when it

968

: 00:44:06

comes to not praying the rosary that day?

969

: 00:44:09

Praying the rosary is a part of my

daily prayer routine, whether it's

970

: 00:44:12

first thing in the morning during

lunch or before bed, but if I happen

971

: 00:44:15

to miss a day, the guilt seeps in.

972

: 00:44:18

Just curious if you ever get that way too.

973

: 00:44:20

Question number two, I've been praying

for the same intentions for years , and

974

: 00:44:24

sometimes the silence feels so crushing.

975

: 00:44:27

I know God hears me, but it's hard

not to wonder why nothing changes.

976

: 00:44:30

How do you keep your faith alive when

his timing feels so far from yours?

977

: 00:44:34

And number three, what is one

thing you wish you knew about

978

: 00:44:38

marriage before you got married?

979

: 00:44:40

Such good questions.

980

: 00:44:41

I'm gonna answer the first one here

on ever be answers, and then we'll

981

: 00:44:45

answer the rest at the after party.

982

: 00:44:47

So the first one, do you ever have

Catholic guilt when it comes to

983

: 00:44:50

not praying the rosary that day?

984

: 00:44:51

If it's already part of your daily

routine and you miss a day, or maybe

985

: 00:44:54

even just in general, like, you

know, that you should be praying the

986

: 00:44:58

rosary more and you don't, or maybe

it's just about prayer in general,

987

: 00:45:01

you know, and you feel that guilt.

988

: 00:45:03

But I'll answer it for this,

and I think it's, it's fitting.

989

: 00:45:06

October is the month of the rosary

and I'm praying a rosary every day.

990

: 00:45:09

And I'm encouraging people in my community

on Instagram to do the same thing.

991

: 00:45:13

And sometimes we're gonna

miss a day actually.

992

: 00:45:16

Very often we're gonna miss a day.

993

: 00:45:19

And there is, I think to an extent,

I still also feel that guilt a

994

: 00:45:24

little bit when I miss prayer, when

I miss a day, or when I feel like I'm

995

: 00:45:27

distant from prayer and not making

it my priority, but at the same time.

996

: 00:45:33

I don't let it wreck me.

997

: 00:45:36

You know what I mean?

998

: 00:45:36

Like it's not heavy enough to where I

let it completely dismantle, because

999

: 00:45:41

that's what the evil one wants to do.

: 1000

00:45:42,689 --> 00:45:48,749

He wants to let us sit in our shame and

our guilt and pull us away from the Lord.

: 1001

00:45:49,019 --> 00:45:51,479

So what matters more?

: 1002

00:45:51,929 --> 00:45:54,629

Then missing a day, which is

a hundred percent completely

: 1003

00:45:54,629 --> 00:45:55,949

okay, and not a sin at all.

: 1004

00:45:55,949 --> 00:45:57,209

I just wanna say that right now.

: 1005

00:45:57,209 --> 00:46:00,179

Like, you miss a day,

it's okay, you're human.

: 1006

00:46:00,329 --> 00:46:01,589

You just starting again the next day.

: 1007

00:46:01,649 --> 00:46:03,269

And that's actually what's most important.

: 1008

00:46:03,269 --> 00:46:05,729

What's most important in this whole

situation is how are you coming

: 1009

00:46:05,729 --> 00:46:08,229

back , and that's what you gotta

think about in your faith in general.

: 1010

00:46:08,229 --> 00:46:09,729

Like we're going to have ups and downs.

: 1011

00:46:09,729 --> 00:46:10,809

We're gonna have mountains and valleys.

: 1012

00:46:10,809 --> 00:46:15,029

We're gonna have times where we step

away because of circumstances, because

: 1013

00:46:15,029 --> 00:46:16,529

of our humanity, our brokenness.

: 1014

00:46:16,529 --> 00:46:16,799

Right?

: 1015

00:46:16,979 --> 00:46:17,849

And maybe you won't.

: 1016

00:46:17,849 --> 00:46:19,079

And gosh, praise God.

: 1017

00:46:19,079 --> 00:46:20,489

I hope that's the case

for all of us, right?

: 1018

00:46:20,819 --> 00:46:25,079

But I just know for myself, um, in

times of trial, there's times when

: 1019

00:46:25,469 --> 00:46:28,169

we fall away in our relationship

with God and that just happens.

: 1020

00:46:28,439 --> 00:46:29,819

So you gotta know that

that's gonna happen.

: 1021

00:46:29,819 --> 00:46:34,259

And what you need to do is prepare

for how to come back, right?

: 1022

00:46:34,259 --> 00:46:38,879

You need to bounce back as quickly

as possible and not delay that

: 1023

00:46:38,879 --> 00:46:41,124

running back to the Lord and that.

: 1024

00:46:41,488 --> 00:46:45,358

Running back to your habit of prayer or

praying the rosary, whatever it is that

: 1025

00:46:45,358 --> 00:46:47,338

you are really striving for right now.

: 1026

00:46:47,673 --> 00:46:52,473

And I know that in times in the past

when I've tried to maybe pray in Novena

: 1027

00:46:52,473 --> 00:46:56,313

or a 54 day rosary or a period of

time where I'm really striving to pray

: 1028

00:46:56,313 --> 00:47:01,113

the rosary every single day, , it's

one of those days when you miss, it's

: 1029

00:47:01,113 --> 00:47:02,883

almost easier to then miss again.

: 1030

00:47:03,303 --> 00:47:06,573

And if you're somebody like me, I

feel like a lot of us might have like

: 1031

00:47:06,573 --> 00:47:10,083

an all or nothing kind of mindset

with things sometimes where it's

: 1032

00:47:10,083 --> 00:47:12,723

like, well, if I missed a day, then

I basically ruin the whole thing.

: 1033

00:47:12,773 --> 00:47:15,833

So now I just shouldn't finish praying

that novena, you know what I mean?

: 1034

00:47:15,833 --> 00:47:18,743

Like, or I just like should just stop

praying the rosary every day of October.

: 1035

00:47:18,773 --> 00:47:20,333

'cause I missed a day,

so I already missed.

: 1036

00:47:20,453 --> 00:47:23,333

And once you miss once, it makes it

easier to miss again later to be like,

: 1037

00:47:23,363 --> 00:47:25,583

oh yeah, well I already missed that

one time and it's okay if I miss again.

: 1038

00:47:25,853 --> 00:47:26,483

You know what I mean?

: 1039

00:47:26,483 --> 00:47:29,126

Like you get more lenient with yourself.

: 1040

00:47:29,696 --> 00:47:33,896

So if you miss, like let that

be an encouragement to get back

: 1041

00:47:33,896 --> 00:47:39,850

on the next day and not a excuse

to continue to drop that habit.

: 1042

00:47:40,490 --> 00:47:44,350

And the other thing too, if we tie

this back into my Ever be moments and

: 1043

00:47:44,350 --> 00:47:48,550

really look at prayer as a moment to

encounter God's love, you're going to

: 1044

00:47:48,550 --> 00:47:52,240

feel less of that guilt because that

guilt may be coming from a place of

: 1045

00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:54,460

feeling like this is an obligation.

: 1046

00:47:54,805 --> 00:47:57,715

That I have to the Lord and that

this is an obligation that I

: 1047

00:47:57,715 --> 00:47:59,605

have to prove my love to him.

: 1048

00:48:00,325 --> 00:48:05,815

And if we flip that and see prayer as an

opportunity to receive his love and grace

: 1049

00:48:05,815 --> 00:48:11,245

and we, we are able to acknowledge our

immense need for his love and grace in our

: 1050

00:48:11,245 --> 00:48:14,125

lives, then missing a day isn't so much a.

: 1051

00:48:14,565 --> 00:48:17,955

, An opportunity for like self hatred

and self punishment, but actually

: 1052

00:48:17,955 --> 00:48:20,235

like, almost like a, like a sorrow.

: 1053

00:48:20,265 --> 00:48:24,165

It's actually like, oh man, like

I missed that time with God.

: 1054

00:48:24,165 --> 00:48:28,485

You know, like you actually feel a longing

for that and a, and almost a sorrow that

: 1055

00:48:28,485 --> 00:48:31,995

you missed it because you missed out on

an opportunity to receive God's love that

: 1056

00:48:31,995 --> 00:48:36,345

he had for you, rather than a guilt and

a punishment and a shame of like, wow,

: 1057

00:48:36,345 --> 00:48:38,235

you're such a bad follower of Christ.

: 1058

00:48:38,235 --> 00:48:40,005

You're such a bad Catholic 'cause

you missed a day of prayer.

: 1059

00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:40,980

You know what I mean?

: 1060

00:48:41,070 --> 00:48:42,120

So that's a distinction there.

: 1061

00:48:42,990 --> 00:48:43,350

Okay.

: 1062

00:48:43,650 --> 00:48:44,700

Hope that was helpful.

: 1063

00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,860

Um, this was good for

me to reflect on too.

: 1064

00:48:46,860 --> 00:48:49,510

So great question and we'll answer

the rest at the after party.

: 1065

00:48:49,723 --> 00:48:50,443

See you next week.

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