Overcome failure, and use the power of reading in English to build fluency feat Masha Honcharova

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Episode 29 • 24th October 2023 • The Speak English Fearlessly Podcast • Aaron Nelson

Well, hello there, and welcome to the Speak English Fearlessly podcast. This is the podcast for motivated English learners who want to speak English fearlessly and learn practical tips and strategies to conquer the CELPIP exam. I also love the feature encouraging interviews with regular people, people just like you, who are working towards becoming fluent in English, so we can learn from their experiences together.

Who am I? My name is Aaron Nelson. I've been an English teacher for over 16 years and I now work to help students prepare for the CELPIP exam through online classes.

So today I have the privilege to be talking with Masha Honcharova. Masha is an English teacher with over 20 years of experience in public and private schools in both Ukraine and Spain, and she is fluent in five languages. She is the founder of the online book club, "Read & Grow", where she combines her love for teaching English with her passion for personal development.

Through her unique approach, she helps intermediate and advanced English learners not only improve their language skills, But also experience personal and professional transformation. Masha believes in the power of non fiction books as tools for change, especially for young adults. A lover of karate, outdoor adventures, and rock music, Masha is a living testament to the transformative power of resilience, discipline, and self belief.

Masha, welcome to the show. Hello, Aaron. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you for being brave enough. It sounds like I'm a superwoman. Well, you are. Yeah, it's always a bit uncomfortable to have people read those bios about ourselves, isn't it? Now that I'm living in it, I think it's too much. No, it's good.

It's good. So, Masha, uh, aside from the bio that we read, is there something about you that you would like me and our listeners to know? Well, what can I say? Now I live in Spain. I moved to Spain, uh, 15 years ago, and I still teach English to secondary students and adults. Um, and I'm really passionate about teaching English through non fiction books.

So are you originally, you're originally not from Spain? No, I'm originally Ukrainian. Right. And 15 years ago, you decided to move to Spain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just out of curiosity, what made you want to move to Spain? I knew you were going to ask this question. Well, I met my husband, my ex.

husband, but I met him, uh, in Ukraine, fell in love. And, and then I moved to, to Spain. Yeah. And you, and you just kind of fell in love with the countries of Spain. Yeah, I fell in love first with the country and then with him because I fell in love with the language, with music, with people, because thanks to my father, who travels a lot due to his job, he explained me all these curiosities that he lived and I wanted to learn languages when I was a, when I was a kid, thanks to him.

So your father had a big influence on your. Yeah, desire and your ability to learn languages. Yes. I imagine he's go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, no. First, uh, well, my mother hated him first because I, I moved to Spain and always said, it's because of you. Our daughter is abroad. But then now she realized it's, it was a good decision to move abroad really, because I'm happy here.

Sure. Did it take you a long time to feel like you belonged? In, in Spain, assuming that you feel like you're at home now. Yeah, uh, well, I, I feel at home here, but I consider myself half Ukrainian and half Spanish now. My heart is, is divided into two parts. Yeah, it's in both places. I love both countries, yes.

Sure. It's true. And a couple of years. A couple of years because I felt this, um, necessity to see my family, to walk on the same street when I've been growing up, um, a couple of years, yes. So is your first language English? No, right? No, absolutely not. My first language is Russian and Ukrainian. Okay. Speak both of them.

Um, then I've, I've learned Spanish and English at the university in Ukraine. And then Catalan here, right? And what made you want to start learning English? My father, your father, my father has the fault. Yes. Yeah. Well, I, I love, I've loved and languages. I, my mother is a teacher of math. And my father speaks languages, so I, I hate math, so I decided to learn languages better.

Yeah, I hate math too. Actually, I think math hates me. Um, so, yeah, math has always been my worst, worst, worst subject in school. We won't even talk about that. But, um, Let's talk about your journey towards learning English, because I think that that's what our listeners are most interested in, is just that whole process of going from zero to becoming fluent like you, and uh, what would you say your journey was like?

How did you start that? It was boring. It was really, really boring because, um, it was a time when there were no apps, no internet connection. There were no possibility to travel abroad, for me at least, uh, to travel abroad and speak to native speakers and practice my English. Uh, there were only cassettes that you have to, you had to listen many times and repeat after the speaker, uh, artificial language basically.

And, um, I didn't have a native teacher available for me, you know, well, traditional methods with the textbooks, boring stuff, you know, and then, but the only thing I had is this intrinsic motivation to learn this language at any cost. So. You're saying that you spent the majority of your time listening to cassettes, hearing the language, repeating it, and you didn't have access to a lot of, like, native speakers to practice with?

Not at all. Not at all. Zero. Your classmates, were you, were you... working with other students who are also trying to learn or was it like self study? Well, yes, it was a self study. I, I forced my best friend to listen to me because I, uh, read all these grammar concepts, present simple, present continuous, all that stuff.

I tried to understand how to, um, how to use. them, uh, all the structures in, in the sentence. And I explained, I taught my best friend how to do it. And while I was teaching her, I understood better. Yeah. So you've always been teaching. Yeah, I think so. I've been teaching. She hated me, huh? Because I was, I was, I insisted too much.

Listen to me, please. Yeah. And was she able to talk with you or, or did she not? Yeah, she was, uh, she was learning, uh, she started learning English to, after so many times listening to me, she decided, well, it's easier to start learning English then, because what else can I do? And we started going to the same school together.

Did it feel like a lonely experience trying to learn a new language when there was nobody else really that you could practice with? I practice also with my father from time to time, um, and then I recorded myself a lot and then in the, during the classes, uh, I practiced too. I memorized a lot of texts, uh, stories, topics, uh, a lot of things by heart.

Well, no, it was not, it was not boring. Well, it was boring, but I didn't know another way to do it. And why did you decide to memorize? I didn't tell you I would be asking you this, but your story is I'm going to get nosy and ask you lots of questions about it because I think it's interesting how people learn.

Why did you decide to memorize text in your, in your journey to? It was not me. It was my teacher. We called her monster, really. We, we didn't like going to her classes at all because she, uh, dictated, uh, lectures on topics, on the cultural topics about Great Britain , et cetera. And then our homework was to memorize every single word by heart.

Oh my goodness. And being able to come to the class and explain it. All in English? In English, yeah. My goodness. That sounds very stressful, Masha. It was. It was. How many, about how many students were doing this? Well, all my class, all my class. Your whole class. Was it a big class, though? Yeah, 20. 20. We were 20, approximately, yeah.

And you also mentioned that you would record yourself. Would that be on, like, a tape recorder? Yeah, a tape recorder. Then I would listen to myself. I would compare with the original audio. So I, I, I did it, um, self assessment process. Right. Then we practiced a lot of dictations, by the way, really effective tool, dictations, and don't remember anything else.

And yes, we memorized dialogues by heart, and then we had to act them out too. Oh, okay. Did you enjoy those? Did you have like a favorite personal tool that you would go to all the time? Well, uh, I would repeat dictation definitely. And, uh, I like, um, I like my students acting out the dialogues. Yes, but something improvised, not structured, you know, not reading so much.

How come? Why, why do you think improv, improvisation is better than something that's, you know, planned or in the can? Because I want them to overcome this fear of, uh, suddenly talking to somebody in English. This is what happens when they are prepared. It's differently, but when they don't know it, they get nervous and I don't want them to get nervous.

So what's better idea? Make them practice it many, many times. So it's a fun activity. They enjoy it. And then it's cool. And then they are not nervous anymore. That's a great idea. All right. Um, what would you say has been maybe the hardest parts of your journey to building English fluency. Do you remember times where you were just like, I am so done with this and I don't want to keep going.

It's just not working out. I'm not making progress. All those moments that we all have, you know, when we're trying something, trying to learn something new and it's, you're just getting into that messy middle, you know, where it's just not working out. Working. Have you had those? Yes. I remember one, one moment in my, in my life when I was, uh, studying in a public school in, uh, in my class.

I was the best student in English, but it was easy to be the best because the English was taught in Ukrainian, basically not in English. Okay. Our new teacher has just graduated the university and literally, You don't believe probably, but she was painting, painting her nails in the class and she said, uh, page 20, uh, exercise one and she keep painting her nails, you know, that was.

English that I was taught in the public school. So, I was the best. I was the best in the class. Imagine the quality, yes? I loved it. I, I, I liked hearing it. I, I asked her about different questions how to use the verb to be and she couldn't explain. And then... Yeah, no, she couldn't explain. No. Uh, then I talked to my parents and asked them to, if it, if it was possible to start, uh, studying in the private school, uh, where the education was really, really good.

No. Yeah. And the first time I came to the class, I was like very empowered and I wanted to keep learning because I was the best. I loved English and that it, that was my chance when I entered the class. The teacher was talking completely in English, and I didn't understand a word. So, in a matter of 24 hours, I became, I came, I became the worst student in the class.

Oh my, I spent all the class thinking what the hell am I doing here? And, uh, is this really, uh, what I'm going to do? Well, I didn't want, I didn't like at all the feeling of being so inferior among the others. And it was such an unexpecting thing to feel like that. And then at the end of the class. Uh, the teacher called me and told me, look, maybe it's better not to waste your time here, uh, there are many other students who want to study in this school and you are maybe you occupy the place of the person who may be more worth it than you.

Oh no. Think twice, she said. And well, and I, when I, on the way home, I was really suffering thinking what my friends are going to tell me now. Yeah. Um, should I come back to the public school or not? Should I continue? But then I, I decided to continue. And I suffered a lot during the first six months, really, it was.

Uh, suffocating. Yeah. But then I finished the year with the excellent mark in English, to tell you the truth. Yes, it was difficult, really hard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I did it. I did it. It takes so hard. Yeah. Yeah. That takes a lot of perseverance to go through that, that experience of feeling well, from going from feeling like you knew what you were doing, you felt like you have made a lot of progress already.

And then all of a sudden you get sent back to the very beginning. But there is always somebody who is more fluent than you, who is better than you, richer than you. There is always somebody. So you, what's the sense of competing with somebody else, comparing you to somebody else? Compete with yourself, speak better than you did yesterday, right?

And I always repeat my students, never ever permit anybody tell you that you cannot do something. Even if it is your mom, your dad, your teacher, nobody. Even yourself, you cannot say this. That's right. You can do it. Try it. At least. Would you say that that teacher, that those words that she told you at the very beginning, like maybe this isn't the right place for you, was that, did you take that internally as a challenge to prove them wrong?

I took it as a challenge. I took it as a challenge, yeah. Because I really wanted to learn and master English. I wanted to speak it as fluent as she did. Yeah. And, and did you need to get like extra help or did you just push through on your own? I was crying a lot, many nights, many nights. Uh, I didn't, uh, hang out with my friends at all at all.

I just studied all the day. After classes, I, I keep studying at home and repeating, repeating revision. Yeah, that was going to be my next question. What were you doing to, to help yourself get through those, those first few weeks and months as you were practicing, trying to, to dig in? Do you remember the things that you would do?

I think it's a self talk. Self talk was important. When I was repeating myself, what I was telling myself was the crucial thing. Uh, I don't actually remember exactly what I was saying. Uh, at first it was like kind of frustration, um, powerless. Now the emotion that I felt, but then, um, it made me be stronger and, and, and little by little, I was focusing on studying, uh, what was on, on, on to do list today, right?

So let's study this. I wasn't focusing at the, to the end, to the end, uh, goal of the ending point. No, just what's important now. That's it. How it worked. What was the negative? Self taught pretty strong in those first two weeks of lunch? Well, when I, yeah, when I compared myself to all fluent classmates that already, they were speaking like they were born, uh, native, you know, uh, it was, uh, it was difficult.

So, and, um, but then you have to focus on yourself only. And at what point do you think you were able to feel, okay, I can do this? You know what I mean? Like, at what point did you start to understand your teacher more and that you were able to engage in what's going on in the class? Was there a time where it felt like it just, the clouds parted and you could see a brighter future?

Yeah, it was when, uh, well, we did a lot of tests, a lot of exams. It's, uh, the methodology in Ukraine is completely different. than in Spain. And, uh, all the tests at the beginning, I failed all of them, all of them. And then when I saw that I at least, uh, got satisfactory mark in at least one exam, I thought, Oh my gosh, there is progress.

There is a progress. And I was not, uh, focused on, well, understanding the teacher. I. understood her little by little because she was speaking always, always English. So there is, the same happened to me when I was learning Catalan. Uh, I've been here in Spain for two weeks only. And I started classes of Catalan.

It, it, for me, it was like, she, she's talking Chinese. I have no idea what's the language, but the teacher. I'm going. She was talking completely the language and then you get used to it. Then you brain makes connections, uh, neuronal connections, and then suddenly you start understanding what the person is saying, and it's like, oh, the light at the end of the tunnel.

Yeah. I know that feeling very well. Oh boy. So, how long would you say. Aaron, how many languages do you speak? Oh me? I'm just. Yeah, I'm, I'm, well, English is my first language, and I learned French when I was in elementary school. But the sad thing is, because I didn't use it, and actually in elementary school, it was my number one subject.

I never had to write a final exam in French because I was good at it. But because I never used it and this is a cautionary tale, I think for anyone learning another language, never stop using it because it doesn't just stay there, you know, it, it goes, it gets weaker and weaker and it can disappear if you don't use it frequently.

And that's what happened to me with French. So French, French. I understand very, very little, very little, but the only other language that I can use and I'm fluent in is Spanish, and that's only because I lived in Mexico for 16 years, so that's how I learned Spanish, so I really identify with that journey of feeling lost at the very beginning, suffering and crying and feeling like you're all by yourself and, you know, you're in an isolation.

Like a cone of isolation with nobody to talk to and then little by little like this window starts to open that you can, you know, understand and be understood and but it takes a lot of time, at least for me, it did, it did, because I don't consider myself, you know, a great, great at languages. I don't know.

Some people are like naturally gifted in that way. Like my wife, she, she has the gift of languages. I think probably it's something like you that you, you can pick up. Language is a little easier than, than the rest of us, but, uh, maybe, maybe, but maybe, but there is, uh, I think people are trying to learn and master language fast and, but this is not the point.

The thing is to enjoy, yes, to enjoy the process and it's seamless. You don't have to rush. If you take, for example, children. No, when we were young, how, how did we, uh, got fluency in our native language? Did we think about, ah, let's do it very fast. No, no, no. Until 4. 5, uh, or five years, even children do not start speaking more or less fluently.

That's right. It takes a long time, and they make lots of mistakes, just like, just like an adult would, you know? Yeah. Exactly. So... How long do you think it took you, thinking about your English, learning how, learning to be fluent in English, how long would you say it took for you to feel like you are, you are strong in English, like you're doing well?

Maybe seven, eight years, maybe. But the thing is that I'm never satisfied with my level. Never. I think. It's never accomplished and it will never be will never be so that what we can come back to the same point that you were mentioning that you cannot stop using it as well as you cannot stop keep learning and improving.

Otherwise, it, you will stuck at the same level. It happened to me twice, basically with English. When I started learning Spanish, I took for granted my fluency in English and it started to decline actually. When I realized it, Oh my God, I, I'm not so fluent as I were, I was before. And it was like a surprise for me.

Nobody tells you about it and, but you have to use it. You have to use it. Uh, as well as. Um, uh, in, when I, I'm a teacher in a secondary school, so if I only, uh, use textbooks and teach my students English, my, my English would never improve. So what. What else can I do? Maybe reading some books in original books or watching TV, um, something like that, but you need to stretch, stretch your learning all the time.

So going along with that train of thought, how would you advise someone who's maybe just getting started with their journey of learning English, or maybe they've achieved, you know, maybe a pre intermediate level of English or so, and they're just in that moment where the excitement of, of learning, I'm, I'm learning new vocabulary words, because at the very beginning, I don't know if it's, if you've experienced this.

I have for sure. It feels like, Oh, I'm learning lots of new things. You know, people are teaching you new words or you hear new words and you find out what they mean. And, and it's like, there's this little honeymoon period, you know, where you feel like everything is rainbows and unicorns and everything is going really well.

And then you hit that, that moment where It feels like somebody just slammed a giant door over your progress, and it feels like you can't make yourself grow, or you can't grow your language skills, and if there's someone listening today who struggling with that. Do you have any suggestions that could help them?

It's very simple. When you are at the beginning, of course you need somebody like a teacher or maybe language coach who has, who guides you, yes, towards the intermediate level. You use textbooks, you listen to audio, audios and do a lot of things that. Your teacher thinks are relevant for you and will bring you faster to the intermediate level.

But when you come up to this level, the role of the teacher is not so important at this level. You need to try new things, something that is interesting for you. Because maybe what teacher decides you to do is not interesting, is not relevant for you. So you will lose your motivation very, very fast. You have to know what are you interested in.

Imagine, let's say, you are a yoga coach, a trainer, yes, online. So maybe it's relevant to start watching videos of the same yoga trainers but in English or read some books about your topic in English. So you will be involved in the process. You will even... will not notice that you are learning. Yeah. And if you need some advice, of course you can ask, you can, um, work from time to time with the teacher.

It's okay. But now you decide what you want to learn.

So yeah, I absolutely, I absolutely agree with you. I mean, I love that idea of Digging into something that you already love, that you're passionate about, doing it in English, and as you do it, like you said, you won't even realize that you're, you know, doing the work of, of learning English, because hopefully you've picked something that you already love, and that motivation or that, uh, love for whatever that thing might be, you mentioned, you know, being a yoga teacher or whatever.

If you are already passionate about that topic, then, of course, you'll be way more interested in doing it in English. And I think that that's a really great idea. You mentioned reading. And I'd really, I'm really interested in digging into your love, uh, for using reading and books to help, uh, to help students to help how it helped you, uh, grow with your English skills.

So, cause that's like one of the common questions that, that come up a lot is how do I. Use reading to help my English skills grow, or what are some ideas to help me to read better? Whatever you want to talk about with your with your journey of using books and reading in your journey of learning English I'd love to hear about it

When I was a teen I hated reading I My father tried to bribe me to read the book and he couldn't Even after eating out or buying me some new clothes, um, I didn't read any books when I was a teen. But then, uh, when you have to graduate at the university, they made you read a lot of books, uh, most of them are useless.

Um, because you don't learn a lot of things, you just read them to pass exams. And then I forgot everything I read. Um, I didn't, I never, I have never found, um, interest in fiction literature because I thought it was, It's boring and I felt like I'm wasting my time reading. I could do something more active like practicing sports or doing something else.

Well, uh, how many men, how many minds know it depend on the person, but then something happened. Uh, the scene happened that I. After 11 years of marriage, I went through divorce and I had a little child to take care of. And I found myself completely alone in a foreign country with no family to rely on. And I understood that the only responsibility was on me.

And it was a difficult period in my life. And I, I saw that this life plan that I was following and my parents taught me. The best they could was not working for me was not working. So I started reading books. I started reading books and Non fiction and I had a lot of questions and tried to find answers in that kind of books and it was like a new world Really opened in front of me and then I started reading basically Spanish Authors at the beginning and then I switched to English Um, and I thought, wow, it's, it's really cool because it helps me not only learn something useful, valuable, uh, for myself to know who am I, who I am, and it helps me expand my fluency and reach my vocabulary and make me even better teacher in English, if you want.

Sure. So all the, all the while, what you're reading, you were like grabbing a hold of that interest. piece that you were talking about a while ago, a little bit ago, you were reading books to help you solve. Challenges or problems that you were experiencing in your life. So there was definitely a big interest in the books that you were choosing, right?

You weren't just randomly picking. You were on purpose going after certain books. Yeah, exactly. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off there. But that's really important to bring out that you weren't just randomly picking books. You were on purpose choosing ones that you wanted to. Exactly, exactly. But I didn't expect it.

I didn't want to. Improve my English at this moment, it was not a priority. Hmm. But I realized that it helps a lot. Yeah. And it's, uh, many, many students, when you ask them, let's read a book in English, they say, oh my gosh, what a boring. And I understand them. I understand. I, it was boring for me too. But then the, the, the only problem was that I was reading the wrong books.

Wrong for me. That's right. wrong for me, you know, uh, so maybe fiction or entertaining, uh, somebody. People like entertainment in general. They watch TVs, watch series, listen to music. They like reading books to entertain themselves. Um, I like learning. I like learning a lot. A lot. So, and the books for me are perfect source.

Do you remember what one of the first books were that really engaged you and you were, you found yourself in? Yeah. Yeah. Growing personally, which was probably your first goal. And then at the same time you realize, Oh my, I'm, I'm building my English fluency with this. I don't know if you've ever had like a dual light bulb moment like that where both things were happening for you.

Unintentionally maybe about the English part. Yeah. For example, uh, the power is within you. Um, I like this book very much, but the one that really impacted me was by Robin Sharma, the monk who sold his Ferrari. It's... Yeah. It's fabulous. I don't have words for this book because it's, uh, it resonated so much with me.

Um, it's a story about, um, about the lawyer, about the lawyer who was not satisfied with his actual life and decided to go to Himalayas to learn some so many useful.

Insights on how to to find and select priorities in your life and it makes you think a lot and question a lot of a lot in your life. This book. Yes. All right. So if someone in the audience, because I know reading is a big, it's a big topic and it's an important topic for many of our listeners, if they are listening to this and they've never started a journey, like use, like working on their own to, to build their reading skills, and they've been used to, you know, having a teacher give them books and, uh, having to do, uh, sorry, having to do classwork while reading, assigned reading.

But if they're thinking to themselves, I want to do what Masha did. I want to start using books to help me grow. I really like what what she's saying, I want to do what she is talking about. How would you, uh, invite them or tell them to get going? Or what would be your best advice? That's probably the better word that I'm looking for.

What would be your best advice for them? Okay, don't focus on Uh, improve your reading speed, I would say, because people want to start reading and be fast. And then when they are not fast, they have to re read some paragraph, they drop the book because it's not motivating. If you do not understand what are you reading about, then you probably drop the book.

And the only, the fact that you're dropping the book. Makes you feel bad about yourself. So you will never repeat again this activity because you feel bad about yourself You didn't finish. So the first step maybe is decide what is bothering you right now What you want? To know more about right now, okay Go to Amazon type the topic you want Select several books, and what's more important, you need to start reading it, at least the first page, and see if it is difficult for you, you don't have to go on, this is not your level, choose a book that is easy, quite easy for you, okay, a few words per page is okay, is okay.

Done. Do not read a book just because it is in English. It must be relevant for you. This is the key. And then you have to start building a reading routine. At least, uh, I don't know, 10 minutes a day, but every single day. Yeah. Every single day. This is crucial. Routine. So could we just circle back for a minute?

I think you're, you've made three really important points. And if we, uh, we have, we're running low on time a little bit. I want to respect your time, but you, you mentioned the first point being to make sure that it's not too difficult for you. Do you have any advice, uh, or what worked for you to do like a preliminary or a first?

Fast check on the page to see, okay, is this going to work for me or is it going to be too hard or will it be too easy? Is there something that people should keep in mind? Okay, when you read the first page and you see a new word, But these words do not interrupt the comprehension. You can still keep reading and you can still grab, grasp the general message of the book.

This is fine. Keep reading. If, if it doesn't make you feel overwhelmed, okay, this is the idea. You have to enjoy what you do. And uh, this is one point. Oh, something else? Yeah, no, no, that's what I wanted to pull out is, so there, if it's, there's too many new words for you and it's destroying or interrupting what the page is talking about and you're feeling lost, you shouldn't go for that book.

No. It's too hard. Too hard. Can it ever be the opposite where this book is too easy? You know, if your goal is to try to build your English as well, can there be a too easy book? Okay. But when, but when the topic is, Too interesting for you? Pick it up. Awesome. I like that answer. Grab it anyway. If it's interesting to you, Just grab it, yes.

Alright. Then you mentioned something really interesting. You said, don't just pick a book because it's in English. Just because it's in English. It has to be interesting for you. Could you speak about that a little bit more? Because I totally agree with you. Yeah, because sometimes people, um, want to, I don't know, show up a little bit and tell their friends and family, Wow, look, I'm reading the English book.

And maybe, uh, it's very difficult for you and you will never finish it. So do it for yourself, not for somebody else. Okay. That's a point, I think. Yeah. And make sure that you are actually interested in what the book is talking about, right? Exactly. That you don't, that you don't find it boring. That you actually want to see what's going on in the book, right?

Yes. Yeah. All right. So go ahead, go ahead. No, no, no, no. And then the last point is the routine. I mean, uh, the routine. Just shadow tiny reading moments for you. And do not buy your own excuses when you say, I am, I'm run out of time. I have to pick up my kids or whatever. No, no, no. 10 minutes a day, you must follow it and then you will get to use it and, and create this necessity to read every day.

All right. Those are wonderful tips, and I know that you use reading in how you help your students. And I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about how you use reading as you teach, or in your, in your, in your classes, or in the programs that you offer, how, how is reading used? Well, uh, actually, it's like talking to the author.

Okay, you pick up a book and it's like having a private dialogue with the author, uh, where you can ask the questions, you can write your questions for your thoughts, your opinion about different points on the, uh, of the book. And then you're working with, um, you're writing summaries, Yes, the difficult part because many students struggle to summarize what they have just read and visual, maybe visual, um, mind maps could help because I'm using it myself for every book I read, I create a mind map.

Okay, so I just pick up my my mother and then remember what was the book about. Exactly. I'm a visual learner. So to know what works for you, you need to know what kind of learner you are. And to know these things that are in agreement with that. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. And make your life and learning easier, not more difficult.

So if there's someone who is a visual learner, how, and maybe they've never tried to use a mind map before. Could you share a moment or two about how you create your own mind map as you're reading a book? Well, I'm reading the first chapter and then I pick up the key points that interest me. And I highlight only one action that I'm going to apply right away.

Only one action per chapter. Okay. Okay. And I find it super useful because there can be many useful insights in the book and you can be lost. Yeah. So it's better to pick up only one. And then I create a, I don't know, a simple mind map or nothing special. Sometimes the quote, uh, empowers me and makes me think about it.

So I write it down. Then I journal a lot. Every single day I journal a lot. So for someone who has no clue what a mind map is. Like, are you on your notepad or in your journal? Do you like write, say, say there's a quote that, like what you were saying that you really like, so would you write that quote and would you draw anything around that quote or what would you do?

I can draw a picture that is related to the concept of the, of the quote, for example, and then I will link. The most important ideas with this quote, or maybe experience that happened to me in my life. So something like that. Okay. So you're drawing like a, would you put that, that quote maybe in the middle of your page and then draw lines with.

Those connection points that you were saying about maybe something in your life that it made you remember, you might write one or two words about that and then draw a line to the quote. And then another key point from the chapter. It depends. I don't have a more concrete structure of the mind map. It depends on the book.

It depends on my mood. But for me, it's important to have some pictures. I sometimes I Google in the inter in Google. In the picture, the photos that are relevant, especially for new vocabulary or new phrases. I like learning vocabulary like that, like I do not create flashcards. I tried, but I found it, for me, it was too difficult to maintain the routine creating the grading of flashcards.

So for me, it's more easier. It's easier to have three, uh, for example, three expressions that I want to learn. And these days. I'm going to use them in any situation. I speak to myself in English a lot, because I don't have my family members, they do not speak, well, they, they cannot maintain conversation in English with me, so I speak to myself when I'm taking shower, you know, and I'm using these three expressions there.

Right. And you said something really cool. You look for, uh, you use Google, you put in that word that you're trying to learn or that expression and you pull out images. Do you print those images off and then paste them onto your mind map? Or what do you do? No, I just, uh, I'm copying past the image into the digital mind map.

It's digital. Oh, it's digital. Okay, I get you. Okay. That's a really cool idea, Masha. I like it. Thank you. Yeah, I'm a visual learner too. I like those kinds of, uh, those hacks, because they work for me. Yeah, so do you, uh, well, you just said that you do them digitally, so you're not really, are you like a doodler?

Do you know what I mean by a doodle? Yes, yes, exactly. Exactly. You can call it a doodle. Yeah. Okay. So final question, cause we're going, I don't want to go over your time. Cause I know you've got little ones that are probably going crazy, trying to get out of their room. No, no, no. Nobody is shouting at all.

It's all good. It's all good. It's all good. But honestly though, do you, do you ever get nervous when it gets really quiet? Like, what are they doing? No, no, no, no, no. They are with my mom right now. So it's like, I really trust her. So, yeah. No, when our kids get quiet, you sometimes have to wonder what they're doing.

Something strange. Or they did something dangerous or they are watching cartoons or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So last question. I am really interested in you telling us about your book club and what kind of things you're doing, and if some of our listeners are into it, how could they connect with you?

But first, talk about your book club. What are you doing there? Okay, what I'm doing. Well, actually I'm, I'm trying to combine, um, master in English with personal development, as you can guess. Yeah. And yeah, we pick up a book a month. Okay. And we are engaged in conversation. We are private telegram group with the learners.

We are talking about the book, about our reading habits, our comprehension, whatever is relevant for them 24 seven, let's say. And then we meet twice a month online and talk about the book. We have engaging discussions. So it's quite a, quite effective way if you like reading and you are in love with English.

So it's a good place. Does somebody have to have a certain level of English in order to be able to enjoy working in this way with you? Intermediate level is a requirement. Well, if you can understand our conversation, you're welcome. And are the books really big books or are they medium size like how big are we talking about?

No, no, no, no, they are not big books because it depending on, on, on the students I have, because there can be very, really small books. If you can see, you see, this is very small book and it is nonfiction. Okay, these are quotes you can, I mean, it's an excuse. It's an an excuse if you don't, if you don't want to read, you'll not read.

That's right. But there are all types of books that you can pick up and enjoy and be able to read. Yeah. And do you assign the book that everybody is working with at the same time, or how does it work? I recommend, uh, well, we decide, uh, the topic of interest. Um, then we, uh, we do brainstorming of different books and then watch the best.

And everybody is reading the same book at the same book, the same book at the same time, but everybody is reading what they want to read. I do not force them to finish the whole book in one month, even if it is possible. I don't want people to be overwhelmed and stressed with this. No, it's, it's, uh, it's a pleasure and it's learning.

So they read what they want and they discuss what they want. Right. So it's very much focused on the content. Of the book and what it's teaching or how it's landing with. with the person who is reading it. That's it. And are you doing, um, are you doing like typical English class things where you give them a list of vocabulary and drawing out the grammar and stuff?

No, no, no, no, no. Uh, I did it, uh, ten years ago. That's all in the past. That's all in the past. It was, uh, the old teaching methodology that I learned in the university. So, then, now, no, no, no, no. I don't do it anymore. No way. They decide what vocabulary they want to know. All right. And if they're feeling stuck with a vocabulary word, do they like say, Hey, Masha, what does, what does this mean?

And then you help them in that way, or how do you do it? Yeah, because we have got the Telegram group, so there we can talk about the language itself. So about vocabulary, they give, um, there is a day, uh, for example, a quote day, or word of the, of the week. Okay, so they share what they have found out in the, in the book, and then they apply what is more important.

What they have picked up, they apply in the context by, I don't know, sending me an audio message. with the new vocabulary or writing, I don't know, a reflection about it. So part of their homework is to actually do the things that they're, they're learning about. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty cool.

That's pretty cool. And do you have any like really. What's the word I'm looking for? Any examples or testimonies that you've had from some of your students who have gone through it and have had like really cool results happen in their life because of what they're doing with you? Well, uh, yes, I have, but it's, uh, the book has started a few months ago, so I don't have a lot of students.

That's why this, um, place is. Um, very cozy, cozy. I call it cozy dojo. Okay. Where you can learn language and you can take profits of these personalized feedback with me and with other learners. So, um, I have some testimonials, but not so many. Basically. People think that, um, I help them not to focus on the improving the reading speed, but to improve some other parts like comprehension or, um, learning some valuable insights for life or professional skills.

This is what is important. So is there anything else that you want, if someone's like really interested in this idea? of reading a book, talking about it, applying it in their life, seeing what happens, like an experiment, talking with you about it over telegram. Is there anything else that you think that they should know about how this program works?

Well, if they really want to know something else, I invite them to drop me a direct message and I will answer. Um, as soon as possible, and, um, I really appreciate your time and invitation to your podcast and, I don't know, happy reading. Yeah! How, if someone wants to drop you a direct message, what are the best ways that they can find you?

Where can they find you online? Instagram, Instagram, English to Freedom, uh, or on YouTube, they can also find me, the same name of the channel. Thank you! Okay, so English to freedom. to freedom, exactly. Okay, so English, the same way that you would say it, E N G L I S H, is it the number two, or spelling out?

Number, number two, freedom, freedom. Okay. And by the way, I'm going to put all the links for this in our show notes today. So if you are driving or walking or unable to write something down right now, you can totally check out the show notes and you'll be able to find Masha there. But, uh, Masha, thank you so much for visiting with us today.

I was really nervous at the very beginning because this is like the second or third interview I think that I've done with people and I always get nervous about doing those, but I felt like we were having a great time. And I enjoyed learning from you. Yeah, 📍 📍 thanks for joining us. Bye bye. Bye

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