I’m excited to welcome back Lisa Rabey of Nerd Girl Industries, a book distribution expert and librarian, to tackle a topic she gets asked about constantly: how to get your self-published book into libraries.

Lisa explains that while authors may worry about losing sales to free library checkouts, the real benefit is free marketing and promotion. Libraries promote books through end caps, displays, newsletters, and social media, and readers who discover you at the library often go on to buy your backlist, sign up for your newsletter, and follow you online.

Lisa also explains that books get pulled from collections based on age, popularity, and circulation numbers, and you have no control over when that happens or what happens to the book afterward. Libraries may donate, sell, recycle, or discard weeded books, and they will not contact you to return them.

She walks through the key tool for pitching: the sell sheet, which should be only one page. Crucially, only include reviews from professional sources like Publishers Weekly, Kirkus, BookPage, or local newspapers and magazines.

Check the library's online catalog for your comp authors to see if the library's community matches your book's audience. If your book spans multiple genres or niches, create two sets of comps to cover both areas.

Keep writing, keep dreaming, and keep creating. Your book is waiting to be born!

Ready to write your authority-building book? Book a Path to Publishing Discovery Call and take the next step to moving one step closer to writing and publishing your book!

Podcast Resources

Looking for support to self-publish your book? Join me in my Skool Community filled with leaders who are adding “author” to their bio.

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Disclaimer: The information in this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. The content shared by the host, guests, and any affiliates is not intended to substitute for professional legal or financial advice or any professional advice specific to your situation. Always seek the advice of a qualified professional with any questions you may have.

The opinions expressed on the show by the host or guests are those of the individuals and do not necessarily reflect the views of Unicorn Publishing Company. Unicorn Publishing Company, the host, guests, and affiliates are not responsible or liable for any decisions made by listeners or actions taken hereto based on the information discussed in this podcast. By listening to this podcast, you acknowledge and agree to release Unicorn Publishing Company, the host, affiliates, and guests from any liability.

Hey friends and future authors, it's Lynn "Elikqitie" Smargis, ghostwriter, book editor, and assistant in helping you to self-publish your book here at Write For You. Today's episode, I'm so excited because I have a fabulous guest. She's been on before and I brought her back because she just has so much information about book distribution that I constantly get questions about, but I am not a book distribution expert. My guest today, Lisa Rabey of Nerd Girl Industries, is here. We are going to talk about the biggest misconceptions authors have about distributing their books in the library. But before we jump into today's show, I want to share with you a new community I just opened up and it's called Publishing for Leaders. It's on school.com, S-K-O-O-L. So if you're looking for a place to get supportive information, advice from a professional that's been in the business, head over to school.com and jump in the community. The first 100 members are free and we're filling up fast.

So make sure to get into the school community ASAP. All right, my friends, today is gonna be such a fabulous episode. And if you don't have your pencil and notebook handy, you wanna get them out because today's topic is gonna move you one step further towards self-publishing your book. Today I'm gonna introduce my guest, Lisa. Lisa is a book distribution expert and provides amazing workshops on pretty much every aspect of self-publishing you can think of.

Thank

She's also the leader and CEO of Nerd Girl Industries. So you'll want to sign up for her newsletter. I get it myself. I love it. It has so much great industry information in it. Lisa, welcome to Self Publishing for Professionals.

I think you just blew up my ego. So thank you for that. Yeah, that's fine.

You're welcome. You can send me the check later. No, just kidding. So Lisa, I'm so super excited about this topic because last time you were on, we talked about book distribution. So if you have, for those of you listening to this, you want to go back and listen to that episode because we jumped into all sorts of misinformation that's out there about distributing your book, including you don't have to be with a traditional or hybrid publisher.

to get your books into all the big bookstores, but we're not gonna go into that today. That's the other episode we recorded before. So go back and definitely check that one out. But today we're gonna talk specifically about libraries. So Lisa, first of all, why would somebody want to put their book into a library for distribution? Because obviously the library is gonna buy some copies, but then, you know, if the library buys copies, then you can't sell it like you're not selling hundreds of copies or whatever. So why?

Why your library?

Well, because the first thing is that it's definitely going to broaden your readership and libraries will take books that are heavily circulated. So if you bring in a title and you're like, Hey, I have a Romancey title similar to Rebecca Yara, so Sarah J Maas or whatever. And the library is more than likely going to be like, Hey, that's cool. We can add it into our collection.

And then within the collection, they do promotions. So that's the end caps, that's displayed, that's in their newsletter and social media. And then readers come and they check out your book and they're like, hey, well, this person has five other books. I'm gonna go either find and see if the library has it or I'm gonna go buy them. And then they'll also, those readers will tend to follow you. So they'll go and sign up for your newsletter. They'll add your social media.

they'll interact with you in some form or fashion. A lot of, I've been heavily reading historicals, historical romances, and that is essentially what I do is that I discover a new author. I don't want to say stalk them online, but I mean, it's essentially what I'm doing. I go to their website, I sign up for their newsletter. I check out as many books as they can.

I am a librarian and I get paid squat so I can't afford to buy all the books that I want. But I definitely take advantage of the library services. So I think to bring it down, free promotion, free marketing, gain wider readership, sell, get more books into libraries means that the libraries are aware of you and then they'll start bringing you in if you're a local author.

for programming and signings and like, yeah, mean, there's, somebody actually asked this question in one of my workshops and I started laughing.

That's kind of mean for me to start laughing, but in my head I'm kind of like, it's free. It's free advertising and promotion and a bunch of wonderful things to get the word of your books out. Why wouldn't you want to do it? Right?

And that totally makes sense, when I know, yeah, that totally makes sense. And I see what you're saying. And the reason I asked that question is because I know...

Like for me as an author too, right? You're looking at like, where can I put my book that's going to sell the most, right? And so obviously you're willing to sell a few copies of the library, but I love what you brought up like you're basically getting free marketing and promotion. Speaking of that, you said, they do an end cap and a promo. Now, is there anything you want to know about going to a library before, when you pitch your book, if you want to get an end cap or promo, do you need to ask them for it? Should you not ask them for it? Cause they're like, this person's asking for an end cap. Okay.

Don't ask them for it. Yeah, there's a couple of things that people need to know. One, libraries place books where they're gonna get greater eyeballs on them. So for example, I am like the heavy romance reader at my library that I work at. So anything romance related is typically in my forte. So.

When I build the displays, I am pulling out books that are by widely read authors, local authors, new titles, so we can get them promoted more because it's an introduction to that author. And then if we have their backlist or they can go buy their backlist or what have you. But libraries are very tight on space. And so they put the books where they feel is going to do the best set of eyes are going to get on them. So can you suggest

I mean, you could, but they're not gonna listen to you. So I would not waste my breath. A question I also get asked is like, know, libraries have shelved my books under this genre, but it's actually that genre. Can I ask them to swap it? The answer is also no. Libraries use different cataloging techniques and procedures and best practices, and it goes where they decide.

where the book is gonna best circulate. There has been one book in the entirety of my career that I had to email the library on and tell them that they had it cataloged wrong because it is a biography of women from the last 900 years and it's very clear it's a nonfiction book and they had it cataloged in historical fiction.

Well, that's completely wrong.

Absolutely completely wrong. And I wouldn't have noticed this for two things. One, I'm reading a book. So I know that it's nonfiction. I mean, the author's bibliography is dozens of pages long. I mean, like it's insane the number of resources she has that she used for writing the book. And two, I process because it came from another library, I process interlibrary loans.

So that's what caught my attention. And I emailed the library directly and said, hey, this is cataloged wrong. And I think you're going to want to change this. And this is the reason why. So yeah, that big question that's asked a lot is if I can choose where it goes, both in the collection as where it's displayed. And again, the answer is no. This is very similar to when we talked about it for bookstores.

Yeah. Yeah.

Bookstores are going to place a title where they feel it's going to get the most eyeballs and therefore are going to sell. And then in libraries where it gets the most eyeballs and where it's going to circulate.

Makes sense. Okay, so speaking of circulation, if your library has different branches, what do you do? Like, do you have to just submit it to the main branch and then they distribute it?

That's an excellent question and the answer is I hate to say I don't know, but I don't know because and the reason being is that some library systems, the main library will have a central location and they'll have one or two people who make the decisions across the entire system on who's ordering what books. Other library systems will do it on a per branch basis. So my recommendation for that is to

approach the ask to speak to the library director or assistant director at the library that you're interested in at your local branch and ask just simply put you know who do I reach because I have a book that I would like to get into your collection.

Got it, okay. So the library buys my book, right, and circulates it. But when do I receive royalties? Is that just when the library buys my book? Yeah, so if they circulate it, then obviously I'm not gonna get a royalty for people, like them circulating it. only get the actual royalty for the purchase.

That is correct. That is correct.

That is correct. One caveat to that is that for ebooks and audiobooks, depending if it's, there's two primary providers for libraries. It's Libby and Hoopla. And in both cases, the library is not buying the book, they're actually leasing the book. So you are not gonna get a royalty every time the library leases the book. You would get the royalty when

the distributor buys the book.

Got it. Okay, so another question about distribution. So if I submit my book to different libraries, how do I know which libraries are carrying my book?

That is also a very good question. I recommend, so there's a couple of ways you can do this. Reason number one is that if the library has confirmed with you that they're carrying your book, you can always go online and search in their catalog. Every library has an openly available catalog. You can go ahead and search for your title and it will show, it's being carried, it'll show up. You can, the other option is to go to worldcat.org.

Again, worldcat.org. And that is a... I believe it's global, but I use it primarily for domestic use. It is a large database that has the information from public and academic libraries and their collections. So you can search through that and find out how many libraries are carrying your books.

That has a caveat as well because it's not always 100 % right. I know based upon what I've done that my, the anthology that I'm in, excuse me, is in...

Five, I can't remember the number. It's either five or 10 libraries in my state. I know this because I have cross checked the online catalog. I know it's being circulated, but when I go to WorldCat, it pulls up three libraries. So it's not 100 % effective, but if you need to know, that's one way you can check and see how many libraries are carrying your title.

So I have another question about carrying titles too that I just thought of because I have a book that's called The Guide to Traveling Gluten Free, but I'm actually gonna be, I wrote a second edition, but it's not ready for publishing yet.

And obviously I have a first edition. So if I have like a multiple book series and or I'm coming out with a multiple book series, should I wait until I have that next book finished to ask the library to carry it? Or should I just say, hey, this is the first book I'm coming out with another one and send it over anyway?

Is the second edition gonna replace the first edition? Okay, I would say once it's published, and I would contact the bookstores and the libraries that carry your first book and let them know that a second edition has come out. One question you haven't asked, but it is important, maybe you are going to ask this, so I'm going to jump the gun.

Yes.

Okay, go for it.

One question I get asked a lot is, a library carries my book, what happens if it's no longer in the collection? awesome. You don't have control of when the book gets pulled from the library's collection. The library makes a decision based upon its popularity, its age, and the number of circulations. So for example, I went through

That was my next question.

the nonfiction section looking at computers at my library. And I ended up pulling out books that were over 15 years old. One of them was how to use Facebook from 2010. And if you are a Facebook user, you know this has changed dramatically in the last, well, 16 years now. So there's a lot of different criteria that libraries look at. It's just not those two things.

So you don't have a choice on what if the book gets pulled or why it gets pulled. Another question I get that kind of follows up with that is can I get the book back? The library is not going to contact you and say, hey, we have your book. Do you want it back? They're either going to give it to their friends, or their local friends group to sell it in their bookshop. They're going to donate it.

perhaps to a local thrift store, which a lot of libraries do, or they're going to recycle it if it's recyclable, or they're going to trash it depending upon the condition. And you do not have a say in any of that. So I need to make that clear because a lot of authors kind of panic about it like, my book, you know, why is my book being removed from the collection? And why can't I get it back? And libraries don't have that kind of time.

Got it.

It's just that simple, you know?

Right. Actually, big book stores do the same thing. Like if they decide, like you send them your book and they don't sell it, they're not going to ship it. Like you have to pay to get it shipped back. So it's the same thing. Like they're not going to just give it back to you for free. Oh my gosh. That's, that's, that is good to know. All right, my friends, I just wanted to remind you again, like to jump into my school community. If you have any questions on, you know, book distribution, book marketing, you know, getting your book.

to the point where you're getting a publisher so you can send it to the library. We have a great free group coaching once a month where you can jump in and learn about self-publishing. And if you don't get your question answered at the group coaching, we also have a coffee chat once a month you can jump into, which makes it really great for especially new authors who are learning to write and self-publish their book. So if you haven't already, go over to school.com, jump into

Publishing for leaders and getting that information today. All right, so Lisa the first half of the we talked about a lot of different aspects of you know, how to get your book like the different aspects of circulation Now let's go backwards a little bit. How do you ask a library to carry your books? I know you have to have a one sheet. What do I want on that one sheet when I'm presenting it to the library?

Okay, so I refer to it as a cell sheet, because that's the way that I was introduced to it, but it's the same concept. The cell sheet should be one page, do not go more than one page. It should have, if you have a high res cover of your book, you should include that in the doc. It should include the title of the book, the formats it's in, the ISBN numbers for all the formats, your name.

Any comp'd authors? I have a nonfiction book out about my struggles with bipolar. And so I picked the comp'd authors. did Sylvia Plath because she had written about her mental illness. Susanna Keynes. And there were a couple other ones as well that I had mentioned since they were all nonfiction authors. A very brief summary. Like I'm talking two to three sentences.

I'm a big believer that if you cannot describe your book in a short elevator pitch, you have no idea what you're writing about. And I would, I would, that's super frustrating when I've worked with authors and I get like this, like page.

True, so true.

page like and my book is the best and no one else has ever written anything like this before. Yes.

Exactly, exactly. Exactly. And so also on the cell sheet includes any reviews. Again, this is one line reviews and here I'm going to stress heavily, do not include anything from Goodreads, Bookbub, BookFunnel, nothing, nothing along those lines. The reason being is that

So I'm assuming Amazon is also in that category. Okay.

Correct, so no Amazon reviews either. The reason being is that authors look at Publishers Weekly, Bookpage, and there's a couple other ones too that are escaping my brain. They have subscriptions to them, they check them out, they get recommendations, Kirkus is another one, read the reviews, and it's based upon what those reviews are coming in, since they're done by professionals.

reviewers that will make a decision on whether or not the book is coming in. Local newspapers and magazines are also okay because that again is going to be a professional reviewer and they're going to be able to provide a more solidified, like less emotional review. If you start, we have received at my library pitches from authors who include those book

you know, including Amazon, Goodreads, you know, all those, and we don't take it seriously. You just can't. I think any author worth their salt already knows that there's a lot of problems with Amazon and Goodreads. Reviews, primarily with review bombing, is a big one. So with a review through the publications I mentioned, you know that this is somebody who's taking the book seriously.

and what they're reviewing about is actually the content of the book. Whereas you can't get that guarantee from Amazon, Goodreads, you know, whatever.

Right, because there's four other platforms that you mentioned, they're actually professional book reviewers and that's what they do, right? They're not just like the general public and also they're obviously not a robot putting a review on Amazon.

That is correct. That is correct. Bye.

Correct, correct. And also just, you know, also to reiterate again, reviews done by local newspapers or magazines are also okay. Because those are things, again, it's another typically a paid reviewer, who's going to take less of the emotion and give more of the nitty gritty of the actual book itself.

Got it. Okay, cool. And then, let's talk about distribution. So there's Libby, Hoopla, and Overdrive. Can you give us an idea of what these are? Excuse me. And like, which ones do we want to distribute our book through for the library?

Well, there's actually more than that. There is for print copies and physical audiobook copies, you want to go through IngramSpark. Libraries will purchase titles through Ingram. They will, depending upon the cost, occasionally buy the print copies from Amazon. But again, it's dependent upon the cost of the book. But IngramSpark is where authors go. It used to be through Baker and Taylor.

How come?

Mmm.

yep.

no.

It was pretty much done. That is it. So yeah, for a lot of libraries and bookstores both bought through Baker and Taylor. And so that left a lot of libraries and bookstores in the lurch. So now I'm sure indie authors are very familiar with IngramSpark because that gets distribution. Libraries do purchase from there. So you want to make sure your print and physical audio copies.

We're done, good luck.

Audiobook copies are in IngramSpark. Hoopla and Libby are the ebook vendors. Libby is owned by Overdrive and Hoopla is its own independent company. You may hear Libby is the app, Overdrive is the company. Most patrons refer to it as Libby. It's pretty much us who buy the audio in ebooks who refer to it as Overdrive. Anyways.

Both through audio and video, as we briefly mentioned previously, libraries lease the titles from Libby or Hoopla. The reasoning why is because this is another point of contention for libraries, is the corporate entities that own those particular companies have decided that ebooks and digital audiobooks

are only circulated x amount of times before the library has to rebuy the lease. So even though in theory the file does not degrade over time, the companies have decided that you are only paying for the number of circulations. And this is the reason why when you check out a book from Libby, you can only get one doubt, you can only, only one person can check out that book at a time.

This is why you're unable to get multiple. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a thing. Yeah, it's, it's a huge thing. It's a huge thing. So, Libby and Hoopla both do similar things. Their business practices are slightly different. So with Libby, the library is buying into collections, existing collections, but they're also leasing books as needed for their community. As I mentioned, each book,

And it's digital, okay.

Each copy of the book is only available for one checkout at a time. So if the library has five digital copies, then five people can check it out and so forth and so on. With Hoopla, the libraries are buying into the collection. They can't make a decision on which books are being made available in that collection. The other thing with Hoopla that's a big deal is that books have unlimited checkouts. So this means that

I read the entirety of the Bridgerton series through Hoopla because it was going to take nine million years to get it through Libby because everybody was checking it out. So the nice thing was I could go in, read Bridgerton from start to finish and not have to worry about a wait time. So that's the advantage of Hoopla. But a big disadvantage is that Hoopla's collection is not as large as Libby. The next big

issue and this is one that libraries struggle with, Hoopla is incredibly expensive. Libby is not as expensive. You are... I would argue 95 % of public libraries have Libby. A lot less have Hoopla because of the expense of Hoopla. So when you decide to get your ebooks and audiobooks into either or,

it's, you know, as far as I know from last time I checked, it's free to make the submissions into it, you know, free to make the submissions to those different companies to get your books circulated. But more libraries are going to have Libby than Hoopla. So I would waste it if it does cost you to submit a book or whatever the case is, I would spend less time with Hoopla than I would with Libby.

Okay, and then what is the advantage? If Hoopla is so much more expensive, why would a library go with Hoopla instead of End or in addition to Libby? Is there some advantage to it? Because it's more expensive, does it have a different service or a different thing that makes it easier to use or anything?

That's a really good interesting question I don't have an answer for because the big the big thing is is that with Libby, here's here's another thing, if the library or if the author has a book that's available via ebook on Amazon both as a standalone or in Kindle Unlimited, libraries can't buy that. We don't have the capability to purchase books through Amazon, digital copies through Amazon. But interestingly enough,

Okay.

Libby partners with Amazon, so you check the book out through Libby, it actually comes from Amazon and you can read it on your Kindle. Hoopla does not do that, Hoopla has its excuse me standalone app. Why choose one over another? That's a good question, my only thing is going to be the cost. As far as collection development goes, my understanding is that

tends to have a lot of stuff that is older than we're talking like backlists, not to say they don't carry current titles because they do, but their backlist is supposed to be pretty expansive. But I have not had any difficulty finding books through Libby and I read pretty esoterically, so take with that what you will.

Got it, awesome. Okay, so question, I know that a lot of my authors who are listening, everyone's like, you know, published on Amazon. So if you are published on Amazon, but you want to distribute to the libraries, what do you need to do to get your book on IngramSpark? Like do people need to take their book off of Amazon to put it onto IngramSpark? Or you just open up an IngramSpark account and put your book in there.

Well, you can just understand that I haven't done this directly. But my understanding is, is that IngramSpark feeds into Amazon or is that incorrect? It does. So yeah, your best bet is to feed it directly, feed everything through directly to do the wide distribution through IngramSpark.

Yeah, that's correct, yep.

So if someone already has their book posted on Amazon, then they just need to figure out a way to like either just to add it to IngramSpark. That's something I actually need to look up for myself too, because I have an IngramSpark account, but I publish everything just directly through Amazon.

Yeah, so my understanding is that you can select what Y distribution you're choosing when you go ahead and submit your book to IngramSpark. And if you already have the book on Amazon, you can just go ahead and uncheck it as a Y distribution in IngramSpark. As the way that I have been told in the way that it works.

Got it. Awesome. And then one last question. There's a couple different specialty things that people may or may not want to consider. Large print, audiobook, and library bindings. Do you need any or all of these to be put in the library? Okay.

No.

Awesome, so if you don't have an audio book, that's fine. You can put your ebook, you can put your paperback book in the library. And our library is like a question, because I know more people read Kindle than they do paper books, but like libraries, obviously, you're a little bit different. Do libraries prefer like if you have one type of book, format of book, it's going to be like print or audio, okay.

Nope, absolutely not. Let's jump back to the first question. Libraries typically don't buy library binding books because they're super, super expensive. Libraries have practices in place to protect books to elongate the circulation. So the first thing is that no, you don't need to do a library binding. Libraries will take care of that themselves. As far as large print goes,

Mm-hmm.

There's one company that does large print that I'm aware of called Thorndyke Press and they're the ones you would need to contact to get large print made available to get it into for wide distribution. Do you need to have a large print? The answer is also no. Most people are going the Kindle route because the Kindle can read to you. So that's the big thing. As far as what was the question that you asked after that?

Got it.

I was just like, do you need to have any of those to be in the library? But you were saying, no, you don't have to have any three of those. You can just have an audio book or an error or just one format and still be able to get into the library.

Right, okay.

That's correct. Libraries do not have a preference on what format they receive. I will tell you though that if you donate a print book or if you actually have a physical audiobook, libraries will tend to take it as a donation and incorporate that into their circulation rather than buy it. So if you want to get a greater guarantee of getting your book into a library, you're going to want to

more than likely donate a copy if you have the opportunity to do so. I, that's what I did for half the libraries I got my book in was because, but I had author copies so it was easy for me to do that. For ebooks, you cannot donate an ebook. Libraries have to purchase that. Ebooks and digital audiobooks, libraries have to purchase that and they do that through Libby and Hoopla.

And I'm guessing that you would recommend people just start with their local libraries where they live and then move out from there.

Yeah. The big thing is what I tell people because we see this a lot coming into my library. You're going to want to check the library's catalog, which again is free to see if your compiled authors are in there. For example, my library caters mostly to general fiction. Mysteries and thrillers are huge.

as well as westerns. So we don't really have a wide romance collection, but that's changing since I'm there. So because of that, well, you know, because of that, when we purchase titles, we look at what our community is reading, and not every library is going to be the same. The collections are gonna be wildly different. So don't approach, so if you...

Hahaha, absolutely!

I live in an area that has a primarily Spanish speaking population and your book is in German, it's not going to circulate. So don't approach the library. So that's why the massive recommendation I always make to authors who are looking to get their books into libraries is to absolutely do the research at the library. And it's very easy to do on the library's catalog. Just search for your compiled authors, see if the library has copies of it. And then that's going to be a lot easier for you to get your book in than not.

Awesome. Then I have one other quick question, Lisa, like my book, The Guide to Traveling Gluten Free, I know no one else has a book like that. So I know what I found on Amazon anyway. So I'm probably not gonna find that type of comp, but I could find gluten free books or something similar. So what would you recommend for something like that? This kind of like, like in between different genres, like it's a combination of genres.

probably do the- there's so while there may not be books specifically like yours traveling gluten-free, there are probably going to be books about traveling with food. Like here's the best restaurants to eat in Barcelona or in you know, wherever. So I would actually do two sets of comps. I would do the comps for gluten-free cooking and see which books are being carried. And then I'd also look at the comps for travel books that have specializations in food.

Hmm.

whether it's restaurants or what have you because it kind of does both. If you are a romance writer who writes fantasy but it's not romantic, I would do the same thing.

Okay, cool. Lisa, again, this has been so amazing. Like all the information you've dropped here is just so useful for people who are listening to this for sure. So Lisa, how do people get a hold of you if they want to have a workshop like this or one of the many other awesome workshops that you offer in their like group or writer's egg or they want to consult with you?

Ha

Absolutely. So they can find me at nerdgirl.net. That's N-E-R-D-G-I-R-L.NET. If they use the code hi there, or I'm sorry, hi Lisa. I should know my own codes by now, right? If they use the code hi Lisa, H-I-L-I-S-A. They use the code hi Lisa at the shop, which is very easy.

Like H-I, not H-I-G-H, so H-I-L-I-S-A.

linked on the landing page of the website, they get 20 % off of everything. So I do offer a workshop called Circulate Getting Your Books Into Libraries and Bookstores. It goes way more in depth than what we've covered in our podcasts. And I also include resources and examples on everything we talked about. So if they're interested in the workshop, they can do that. If they want to just purchase a slide deck and they don't want to do the workshop, that's completely fine as well.

but a listing of all my workshops are also available on the website and they can book me at any time.

Awesome, sounds great. Well, Lisa, again, thank you for coming on and sharing your information today. It's been so helpful for all of my listeners. All right, friends and future authors, so if you're, again, still feeling stuck or not sure what to do or where to go with your next book or your current one,

Thank you, I love being here.

Put your book aside, if you're tired of putting your book aside and constantly having these roadblocks of self-publishing, get the support you need without spending thousands of dollars on a self-publishing course. Join me inside Publishing for Leaders today. To get an author added to your bio before the end of the year, join the new free community at school where you'll get tips, advice, and a free group coaching session every month. So jump in now while it's still free. Go to school.com, S-K-O-O-L, and search Publishing for Leaders.

Also in the show notes. Until next week my friend, Lynn "Elikqitie" Smargis, is reminding you to keep writing, keep dreaming, and keep creating. Your book is waiting to be born.