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The Role of Physical Security in the Managed Security Service of the Future | Mark Ledlow & Patrick Kane
Episode 3317th August 2022 • The Circuit Magazine Podcast • BBA Corporate Ltd
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Often, the group that tries to be all things to all people is going to fail. So, is the managed Security Service of the future going to be more about subcontracting and strategic partnerships?

On this week’s show, we’re joined by Mark Ledlow and Patrick Kane to look at the way in which physical security/EP fits squarely in the managed security service of tomorrow. As we dig into this, we’ll be asking:

  • How has corporate security modernized over the last two years? What new offerings are we seeing?
  • Are we starting to see a greater appetite at a corporate level for protective intelligence over an executive protection program?
  • In an integrated solution with cyber colleagues, could physical security become the eyes and ears on the ground for a joint Intel group?
  • What vital skill are security managers searching for that protectors are missing from their resumes? 

About Mark:

Mark is the Founder and CEO of Ledlow Associates LLC Holding Company of Ledlow Security Group, Providing Executive Security Services and Physical Security Risk Mitigation to Companies. Mark is a Speaker and the Host of The Fearless Mindset Podcast Marine Corps Veteran Risk & Security Advisor to Corporations Family Office.

Mark also Coaches Veterans transitioning from Military into the (Private Sector) Executive Security Services Industry or Business Ownership.

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About Patrick:

Partick is a Security professional specializing in the proactive protection of personnel and assets in a dynamic global environment. Extensive experience assessing and mitigating physical security risk and developing and establishing programs to safeguard staff and company operations. On-the-ground experience in 70+ countries. International Executive MBA from Instituto de Empresa (Madrid). Certified Protection Professional (CPP), Board Certified in Security Management.

Author of the book Practical Security Training - published by Butterworth Heinemannn - 1999.

LinkedIn

More about the Circuit:

The Circuit Magazine is written and produced by volunteers, most of who are operationally active, working full time in the security industry. The magazine is a product of their combined passion and desire to give something back to the industry. By subscribing to the magazine you are helping to keep it going into the future. Find out more >

If you liked this podcast, we have an accompanying weekly newsletter called 'On the Circuit' where we take a deeper dive into the wider industry. Opt in here >

The Circuit team is:

  • Elijah Shaw
  • Jon Moss
  • Shaun West
  • Phelim Rowe

Connect with Us: 

Circuit Magazine

BBA Connect

NABA Protector

British Bodyguard Association

Transcripts

Patrick Kane:

there's a degree of specialization in these things.

Patrick Kane:

And sometimes the group that tries to be all things to all

Patrick Kane:

people, uh, is gonna fail.

Patrick Kane:

So I think a lot of it's gonna be about subcontracting and strategic partnering

Phelim:

This week for the circuit magazine podcast, we're gonna

Phelim:

try something slightly different.

Phelim:

We're going to reflect on a recent session.

Phelim:

We ran with the one and only Patrick Kane security director at Atlas air.

Phelim:

And mark led low founder of led low security group at the managed security

Phelim:

services forum, Los Angeles county.

Phelim:

Why are we doing this?

Phelim:

It was actually a really engaging session where we looked at exactly why executive

Phelim:

protection and corporate security are going to have to be at the heart of any

Phelim:

new managed security service program.

Phelim:

And at first you might think, yes, of course.

Phelim:

And we're a little biased.

Phelim:

However, because of the economies of scale that managed security service, uh,

Phelim:

providers offer, it's only natural that you're going to effectively outsource.

Phelim:

Now it doesn't mean that you have to become a hacker.

Phelim:

It just means that perhaps if your client wants a particular

Phelim:

service, you know who to call, many of you are not TSCM specialists.

Phelim:

And many of you will bring in that expertise.

Phelim:

now, it doesn't have to be anything too complex.

Phelim:

It could just be a partnership to begin with.

Phelim:

However, in the future, the managed security service that people know of.

Phelim:

Truly cyber is going to have to face up to the physical reality

Phelim:

of the world in which they live.

Phelim:

So all in all, I hope you like today's session.

Phelim:

I think it brings something slightly different to the podcast.

Phelim:

Of course, we are going to be doing the thematic interviews and exposes

Phelim:

on many, many topics that keep you the listener awake at night, but please.

Phelim:

Do let us know how this goes.

Phelim:

So let's get into it.

Phelim:

Let's talk with Patrick Kane and mark led low, and let's look at the way in which

Phelim:

physical security EP fits squarely in the managed security service of tomorrow.

Phelim:

We've delighted to welcome patrick Kane, senior director of secured at Atlas

Phelim:

air mark Ledo on Leto security group, and I hope to shed some light on the

Phelim:

modernized physical security service, the modernized corporate security service

Phelim:

and get people thinking in terms of risk management rather than, cybersecurity

Phelim:

specifically, how's it been going?

Phelim:

Patrick.

Phelim:

It's

Patrick Kane:

excellent.

Patrick Kane:

I'm always interested in having a little bit of an understanding of

Patrick Kane:

cyber, one of these things where I'm sure I won't ever be an expert at it,

Patrick Kane:

but at least having a little bit of understandings were always helpful.

Phelim:

Absolutely.

Phelim:

And, uh, and, and, and the same for you, mark, how's it been.

Mark Ledlow:

Yes.

Mark Ledlow:

You know, as eye opening, knowing where the future is in security, there's so many

Mark Ledlow:

experts that you have on your program, on the panels that it's like, oh, it's just

Mark Ledlow:

not a, it's not just a bodyguard business.

Mark Ledlow:

It's not just an ex exactly protection industry.

Mark Ledlow:

It's so much deeper that so much more intrinsic.

Mark Ledlow:

And, uh, there's so many variables that cover the word

Mark Ledlow:

security in the corporate arena.

Phelim:

And, you know, beyond the obvious the fact that, it security will need

Phelim:

some kinetic response at some time, for some reason, uh, not least if we do

Phelim:

move into the current economic climate.

Phelim:

Let's say we are not allowed to say recession.

Phelim:

Um, you know, you're going see the need to work with your physical security partners.

Phelim:

So let's paint a picture, um, and I'll start with you, mark.

Phelim:

Just to, to help our cyber colleagues see some synergy.

Phelim:

How has corporate security modernized, especially over the last two years?

Phelim:

Has there been in new offerings, especially when corporate

Phelim:

security wasn't allowed in the office, wasn't allowed to travel.

Mark Ledlow:

Yes, like night and day difference.

Mark Ledlow:

You know, I think the, the awakening for me was when I attended not to plug

Mark Ledlow:

antic for example, but I was at the conference and also following LinkedIn,

Mark Ledlow:

I'm seeing a lot of corporate, uh, roles for protective intelligence,

Mark Ledlow:

more roles in that role versus building executive protection program.

Mark Ledlow:

and I think what's happening is, is taking place is, you know, they have to

Mark Ledlow:

justify to their shareholders why they need an executive protection team or

Mark Ledlow:

protective, uh, protective security team.

Mark Ledlow:

They have to, you know, that comes out of the bottom line of that corporation.

Mark Ledlow:

And if they can do intelligence enough with data numbers and facts

Mark Ledlow:

to show proof, Hey, this is why we need to protect our CEO or C-suite

Mark Ledlow:

because these numbers, these.

Mark Ledlow:

Materials show us.

Mark Ledlow:

These are the forecasts in this industry that we're in.

Mark Ledlow:

And I think that's the.

Mark Ledlow:

The new era of security and cyber as well.

Mark Ledlow:

Cyber is right there.

Mark Ledlow:

It's, you know, we got, we have more cyber attacks internationally than we

Mark Ledlow:

do have bumps, you know, going on cause cyber, you know, you go in the dark

Mark Ledlow:

web and you could be coming anybody you want and everything's up for a price.

Mark Ledlow:

It's the dark web, you know, auctioning off for threats, whether

Mark Ledlow:

it's utility grids, whether it's water, whether it's, uh, branding

Mark Ledlow:

threats to corporation branding.

Mark Ledlow:

There's so many things.

Mark Ledlow:

The bodyguard, which world, where I come from.

Mark Ledlow:

So that's kind of what I'm seeing is protective intelligence is

Mark Ledlow:

the future of physical security.

Phelim:

Absolutely.

Phelim:

If you imagine all these executives, um, ranging from tech bros, uh, maybe there's

Phelim:

not so many crypto billionaires anymore, but you know, people who just realizing

Phelim:

that they need to protect their person.

Phelim:

And they're like, wait a minute, but I've spent all this on cyber.

Phelim:

But, but, but now I need to protect cargo.

Phelim:

I need to protect people.

Phelim:

Um, Patrick, do you think people are, are waking up to this?

Phelim:

Cause as far as I understand, Patrick, there is a big, shortage

Phelim:

of EP personnel and, and other physical security in the states.

Patrick Kane:

Yeah.

Patrick Kane:

I think in general, two of the things we've seen out of, uh,

Patrick Kane:

co of the, the whole pandemic.

Patrick Kane:

Has been, uh, in terms of opportunities.

Patrick Kane:

I think we've highlighted for our stakeholders.

Patrick Kane:

The impact a crisis is able to have.

Patrick Kane:

So I think there's.

Patrick Kane:

A kind of new appreciation of the safety and security function within

Patrick Kane:

organizations that perhaps I won't say it was absent before, but I don't think

Patrick Kane:

the impact was as clearly understood.

Patrick Kane:

But now after having a global event like we've had with the pandemic,

Patrick Kane:

I think every everybody's been impacted in some shape or form.

Patrick Kane:

So I think there's a greater stakeholder understanding.

Patrick Kane:

Of the importance of our function.

Patrick Kane:

Uh, I think in terms of challenges though, um, there are quite a few, I mean, you

Patrick Kane:

have the, the obvious ones that we've had in COVID, but there've also been

Patrick Kane:

a lot of second order ones in terms of the economic impact here in the United

Patrick Kane:

States and overseas all over the world.

Patrick Kane:

And as end result the impact, you've seen a civil unrest and protest.

Patrick Kane:

Uh, increased crime and so on.

Patrick Kane:

And to your, your, your, uh, question about EP personnel and just in

Patrick Kane:

general personnel, I think there's been a concern about capabilities.

Patrick Kane:

Um, we're clearly overall in a situation where there's a, a shortage of employees,

Patrick Kane:

uh, across a variety of separate sectors.

Patrick Kane:

So being able to find people and find quality people.

Patrick Kane:

I think it's probably more challenging than it's ever been before.

Patrick Kane:

Uh, now we have workforces which are dispersed where we

Patrick Kane:

have, uh, hybrid environments.

Patrick Kane:

We have people at home who otherwise were in the office and what's the

Patrick Kane:

responsibility of an organization now to be concerned about the individual

Patrick Kane:

safety and security and situation of each of those employees in their, in their

Patrick Kane:

separate home, home offices and so forth.

Patrick Kane:

And then as far as, as overseas as well too, I mean, understanding that we have to

Patrick Kane:

support operations overseas, what impact has this had on our, our, our providers?

Patrick Kane:

Do we need to stop back?

Patrick Kane:

And we talked about this before in other other particular forms and so forth,

Patrick Kane:

but do we need to stop back and evaluate our providers, our transportation

Patrick Kane:

security and our hotels and so forth in other areas and make sure they still

Patrick Kane:

have the capabilities that they had prior to, uh, 20, 20, early, 20, 20?

Phelim:

Yeah, absolutely.

Phelim:

Now we can be very sure there are no safe.

Phelim:

Locations, right.

Phelim:

We know what is a hot zone and we know what is not a hot zone.

Phelim:

Okay.

Phelim:

That much is clear, but truly safe.

Phelim:

When, when in the middle of the last two years, maybe a, uh, doctor

Phelim:

would not be available in a major European city that that's new.

Phelim:

You know, lots of things to think about and people might say, well, hang on.

Phelim:

Why are we talking physical security at an MSS event?

Phelim:

And what I like to always do is to say, think more broadly, MSS.

Phelim:

I know there's difference between the managed service provider who is often

Phelim:

constructed by a business person.

Phelim:

They want to provide someone's it.

Phelim:

I get it.

Phelim:

And the MSS, it's someone that's been, you know, through the ranks of cyber

Phelim:

and InfoSec and they, they they're building out a specific service, but

Phelim:

at the end of the day, it's a service.

Phelim:

It's a value added reseller.

Phelim:

So you don't necessarily do your own pen testing.

Phelim:

You farm it out to someone you don't necessarily, uh, uh,

Phelim:

install your own CCTV cameras.

Phelim:

You might work with a third party and with the advent of biometric CCTV identity act

Phelim:

identity, access management merging with a lot of physical security technology,

Phelim:

there are it managed those providers that are offering physical security solutions.

Phelim:

And there are some of the big physical security, uh, EP even

Phelim:

providers who are now offering cyber.

Phelim:

Okay.

Phelim:

So I push back on the notion that we shouldn't talk about it because

Phelim:

it's just another revenue stream.

Phelim:

It's just another string to your boat.

Phelim:

So there's no reason why you might can't partner with a cyber, uh,

Phelim:

MSS and, and, and offer that.

Phelim:

Um, there's no reason why they can't partner with you and offer your services.

Phelim:

Um, I, I I'd be interested in your thoughts for the future of that mark.

Mark Ledlow:

It's gonna be, uh, well, if I had a crystal ball, it'd be a billionaire.

Mark Ledlow:

And so I don't, but what I see happening.

Mark Ledlow:

domestically, we have the midterm elections, of course.

Mark Ledlow:

And we have a polarized country is what the media tells us.

Mark Ledlow:

The media tells us we have a polarized society, which is calling this rift, but

Mark Ledlow:

if you talk to people around the country, you know, we're more unified than ever.

Mark Ledlow:

And so it's, uh, propaganda, you know, that's a threat now propaganda machines

Mark Ledlow:

where they're coming from foreign ages.

Mark Ledlow:

We don't know, we have to talk to the CI folks over there and,

Mark Ledlow:

and, you know, NSA folks to figure out what's really going on.

Mark Ledlow:

But I think we have a false sense of what's really happening around the world.

Mark Ledlow:

And we're only told so, so much source information from our media outlets.

Mark Ledlow:

You know, that's one issue that we have, we have, you know, it's gonna

Mark Ledlow:

be a call it the summer rage from a physical standpoint, and they have

Mark Ledlow:

a lot of site security needs here.

Mark Ledlow:

Uh, as far as cyber goes, I think that's gonna be an ongoing thing.

Mark Ledlow:

We probably put that in propaganda, you know, cyber security type of thing.

Mark Ledlow:

And I think, I think the win for the industry is gonna

Mark Ledlow:

be protective intelligence.

Mark Ledlow:

I think if we can master our intelligence master.

Mark Ledlow:

Uh, the information coming across desk, we can make accurate forecast

Mark Ledlow:

on where we need to, uh, mitigate risks where those risks are, you know,

Mark Ledlow:

protests, Rio, supply chain issues.

Mark Ledlow:

I'm hearing we're gonna have food shortages in the future.

Mark Ledlow:

Because the shortage of beef is that propping yet?

Mark Ledlow:

I don't know.

Mark Ledlow:

I'm not a farmer.

Mark Ledlow:

I don't, I don't sit on the agriculture board, so I don't know, but there's

Mark Ledlow:

a lot of information being fed to us.

Mark Ledlow:

My question is, is it true information?

Mark Ledlow:

Is it real?

Mark Ledlow:

And that's why protective intelligence is so needed right now.

Mark Ledlow:

I think that's why corporations are going that direction because

Mark Ledlow:

they go, well, we see value there.

Mark Ledlow:

They'll see more value there.

Mark Ledlow:

And like Patrick said, you gotta protect, you know, the stakeholder's

Mark Ledlow:

interests in, you know, in the company and the brand protect that.

Mark Ledlow:

And so I see, um, just branding, you know, had social media issues.

Mark Ledlow:

And if you're a corporate, you know, entity and you have kids and you're,

Mark Ledlow:

you know, high net worth family, let's say you're the CEO of X, Y, Z company.

Mark Ledlow:

And your kids are all over social media.

Mark Ledlow:

And, you know, doing updates, like the Kardashians of where you're

Mark Ledlow:

going, you know, you'd create yourself a target, especially you're

Mark Ledlow:

down in Mexico where the cartel, and then not only mentioned cartel.

Mark Ledlow:

We had this thing called, you know, they're lacing the drugs.

Mark Ledlow:

And I just had a, a conversation with a buddy of mine who

Mark Ledlow:

was overseeing the hotel.

Mark Ledlow:

In this, uh, gas at the hotel overdosed on marijuana, because it was laced with

Mark Ledlow:

the stuff fentanyl from over in China.

Mark Ledlow:

And that stuff's making its way into our country right now.

Mark Ledlow:

It's going all over the place and it's, uh, it's a, it's an absolute, it's a war.

Mark Ledlow:

It's a war on drugs.

Mark Ledlow:

And, um, Michael or not.

Mark Ledlow:

Yeah, it's, uh, it's here.

Mark Ledlow:

And so we have so many things coming, you know, so many different

Mark Ledlow:

weapons being weaponized against us.

Mark Ledlow:

If you're overseas, you got, you know, you're trying to survive

Mark Ledlow:

in your Ukraine with that.

Mark Ledlow:

And Europeans are trying to figure out what's going on.

Mark Ledlow:

There's so much stuff.

Mark Ledlow:

And, uh, you know, cyber's one, but we, what, what great thing

Mark Ledlow:

about security is we, so I have so.

Mark Ledlow:

Experts in their, uh, geniuses that they know how to play this.

Mark Ledlow:

The game of protecting our infrastructure.

Mark Ledlow:

You have cyber, you have intelligence, you have, you know, bodyguards and

Mark Ledlow:

you have, you know, supply chain, I think supply chain's gonna be a

Mark Ledlow:

very big issue on the next wave of COVID, you know, in the next way.

Mark Ledlow:

The mutations gonna be a thousand mutations.

Mark Ledlow:

And I, you know, I was down with Phillip for two months.

Mark Ledlow:

And, uh, you know, whether you, you get the vaccine or do

Mark Ledlow:

you believe the vaccine works?

Mark Ledlow:

You know, there's so many parallels that were being faced in the next couple years.

Mark Ledlow:

So we live in an interesting time and, uh, security is gonna explode.

Mark Ledlow:

I think it's gonna be

Phelim:

needed.

Phelim:

And specifically you raised that, that term protective intelligence.

Phelim:

And maybe that's the synergy.

Phelim:

That's the synergy because the cyber threat Intel.

Phelim:

Is applicable to a variety of scenarios, but what if protective intelligence

Phelim:

could be integrated maybe in a, so maybe, uh, travel risk intelligence

Phelim:

may be protest intelligence, maybe, you know, uh, there's plenty of,

Phelim:

uh, fraud investigations going on.

Phelim:

Yes.

Phelim:

There's some things people can do behind a desk, but sometimes they

Phelim:

send out a private investigator.

Phelim:

And who's that

Phelim:

, Mark Ledlow: you know, it's yeah.

Phelim:

Your investigation component.

Phelim:

Yeah.

Phelim:

Yeah.

Phelim:

We just did a huge job.

Phelim:

It was about three weeks job doing surveillance up in Portland.

Phelim:

And we had four, four people on that team, 12 hour shifts,

Phelim:

and I'm like, holy cow protect.

Phelim:

Uh, detective workers is really skyrocketing.

Phelim:

Investigations is blowing up and, you know, investigations on

Phelim:

pharmaceutical supply chains going on.

Phelim:

That's gonna be a big need, I think.

Phelim:

Cause they're gonna have to ramp up, you know, medications and stuff for every.

Phelim:

And something that's not being talked about right now is the

Phelim:

shortage of medical staff and nurses, supporting people are getting sick.

Phelim:

There's a big shortage of nurses and doctors out there throughout

Phelim:

the United States, huge shortage and PE and people are just burned

Phelim:

out because of, we just have COVID.

Phelim:

And so nobody's really talking about that, that issue yet.

Phelim:

Everybody's kind of letting that kinda lie down and it's kind of being quiet.

Phelim:

No one wants to address it.

Phelim:

But, you know, the next way we have of infections and all that is gonna blow

Phelim:

the whole medical world upside down.

Phelim:

So, so sort of following up on that, um, But not with the

Phelim:

medical component so much, but, but Patrick, do you, do you think that

Phelim:

physical security is going to be a lot more in demand because maybe,

Phelim:

maybe a cyber sock will say there's an incident or we're being attacked.

Phelim:

Uh, why?

Phelim:

And, and yes, there's international state actors and we won't be able to

Phelim:

find out why, and then this nation states and that's a, a real issue.

Phelim:

But do you think that increasingly physical security will.

Phelim:

The boots on the ground, you know, like let's send them out.

Phelim:

There's, there's a protest happening.

Phelim:

Well, is there, you know, there's three people with black cards.

Patrick Kane:

I think increasingly we're seeing an overlap.

Patrick Kane:

I think it's already happening.

Patrick Kane:

I think it's gonna happen even more in the future.

Patrick Kane:

I mean, I think you, you, you hit an important aspect film when you

Patrick Kane:

mentioned about the, uh, increasing, um, Requirements, uh, of, of it knowledge

Patrick Kane:

when you look at security technology.

Patrick Kane:

So like when you're looking at camera systems and things like that, if

Patrick Kane:

you were to go back 20 years, it wasn't as much of an issue, but now

Patrick Kane:

if you're involved in that space, you need to understand the kind of

Patrick Kane:

cyber aspects of that as well, too.

Patrick Kane:

And you need to understand there's potential compromise of, of those

Patrick Kane:

systems on the cyber side as well.

Patrick Kane:

So I think for the, the practitioner in the physical space, you need

Patrick Kane:

to have an understanding of that.

Patrick Kane:

And I.

Patrick Kane:

The, um, we were speaking earlier about EP and the EP aspect of it.

Patrick Kane:

I think one of the things as we start looking at smart homes and smart

Patrick Kane:

cars, and some of these other things, there are vulnerabilities now that

Patrick Kane:

exist, that didn't exist before.

Patrick Kane:

And I think for providers who are protecting individuals who are at

Patrick Kane:

risk, either because of their income level or their public profile,

Patrick Kane:

I think we need to be concerned.

Patrick Kane:

The exploitation of those, um, smart homes and smart cars and so forth as

Patrick Kane:

a possible vector for somebody to, uh, inflict harm on that, on that person.

Patrick Kane:

Uh, as far as the security element or physical security element being,

Patrick Kane:

um, Being kind of on the ground.

Patrick Kane:

Yes.

Patrick Kane:

I mean, I think, I think there's also a lot of opportunity for a

Patrick Kane:

sharing of intelligence between the cyber and physical sides.

Patrick Kane:

And there was an organization, uh, that, um, that I was in, in

Patrick Kane:

contact with speaking with that actually has a joint Intel group.

Patrick Kane:

So there's like a physical component.

Patrick Kane:

A cyber component, but on intelligence, there's like a shared group and they,

Patrick Kane:

um, they, uh, exchange information on, on the Intel side, particularly

Patrick Kane:

for areas which are overlapping, both the cyber and physical.

Patrick Kane:

So I think this is something we're gonna see only, only increasing.

Patrick Kane:

And I think, um, That's why it's helpful for us to have

Patrick Kane:

a, an understanding of cyber.

Patrick Kane:

You know, it doesn't have to be in depth, but at least understanding

Patrick Kane:

at the 40,000 foot, uh, scale.

Patrick Kane:

And then for our cyber colleagues to have some understanding of, of our operations

Patrick Kane:

as well too, I, I had the opportunity to go speak at a cyber conference.

Patrick Kane:

In early April.

Patrick Kane:

And, uh, after I was through with the presentation, I was having a few cyber

Patrick Kane:

conversations and people were commenting on how many facets of the corporate

Patrick Kane:

side or physical side that they were not aware of or didn't understand.

Patrick Kane:

Uh, and they had more of a very, um, a very kind of, uh, uh, like

Patrick Kane:

stereotypical image, I guess, of the physical side, without understanding

Patrick Kane:

all the different, uh, aspects of it.

Phelim:

Yeah, the quote unquote knuckle drags.

Phelim:

Um, exactly which, which I think, I think, you know, the physical security

Phelim:

community has adopted endearingly about itself, but, uh, it was meant,

Phelim:

uh, maybe in a, in a different way.

Phelim:

Um, but, but I think this all makes business sense.

Phelim:

So for one, uh, it makes business sense that I can bundle physical security

Phelim:

solutions with my big Mac and fries.

Phelim:

No, with my, with my, uh, you know, with my cyber solutions,

Phelim:

it makes business sense.

Phelim:

Um, some people like in the physical security world, we, we

Phelim:

have heard anecdotally of large companies using EP as a wed.

Phelim:

To get a bigger contract for some other purpose.

Phelim:

Okay.

Phelim:

Whether that's true or not.

Phelim:

I don't know, but , it, it, it, it wouldn't be beyond the realms

Phelim:

of possibility for somebody to.

Phelim:

Use, let's say cyber pen testing to have a wider managed security

Phelim:

service through the door, which means that it's possible to go into a

Phelim:

corporation and say, do you know what?

Phelim:

Now I can have you covered from travel risk to reputational risk, to cyber

Phelim:

threat intelligence, to pen testing it.

Phelim:

And, and, and, and.

Phelim:

And, and also mark, you mentioned about propaganda but, I think you

Phelim:

will see fusion centers emerge and these fusion centers will be

Phelim:

closed and they'll be like, right.

Phelim:

So regardless of what the noise says, What's happening.

Phelim:

And then they will partner with a physical security.

Phelim:

I mean, is that happening even now?

Phelim:

Cause that, that makes business sense to me, mark.

Mark Ledlow:

Yeah, I'm hearing, that's what I'm hearing like the one stop shop.

Mark Ledlow:

I mean, that's what these fortune 100 to one fortune 500 companies

Mark Ledlow:

want, they want a one stop shop.

Mark Ledlow:

They don't wanna call three different vendors to.

Mark Ledlow:

Two different jobs to make it easier for that CSO.

Mark Ledlow:

They would rather make one phone call to that one company that could take

Mark Ledlow:

care of everything across the board.

Mark Ledlow:

And I, I don't know if companies have adjusted their technology.

Mark Ledlow:

I don't think they're there yet.

Mark Ledlow:

I think they're probably fighting it cuz they have the

Mark Ledlow:

old guard way of doing things.

Mark Ledlow:

And now, you know, we have everybody working remotely.

Mark Ledlow:

Well, there's a huge cyber crack right there.

Mark Ledlow:

If you're working remote.

Mark Ledlow:

We don't, you don't really know what that employee is doing

Mark Ledlow:

at home at the homework site.

Mark Ledlow:

You know, you can get, think they're doing everything on the corporate laptop, but

Mark Ledlow:

there's, there's chances for ESP there.

Mark Ledlow:

You know, they're working off a wifi from home.

Mark Ledlow:

How locked up is that wifi and, you know, people are, are continuing

Mark Ledlow:

to expand the home from work model.

Mark Ledlow:

And there's like, I know Jamie diamond came out and said, you're coming back to.

Mark Ledlow:

Tesla just, Hey, Hey, if you want a job, come back to work.

Mark Ledlow:

Otherwise you're, we're gonna let you go.

Mark Ledlow:

And so I think the one stop shop is the future of the industry.

Mark Ledlow:

And like Patrick was just saying, this is right now, you know, the manpower is

Mark Ledlow:

lacking cuz a people wanna go get sick.

Mark Ledlow:

Cause I was, uh, attached to be, um, support a, a certain bank

Mark Ledlow:

and we just couldn't find anybody that would, was willing to work.

Mark Ledlow:

Cause they didn't wanna get sick with.

Mark Ledlow:

And so that's gonna be an ongoing issue with the up and coming people

Mark Ledlow:

that work in the executive protection industry, they don't wanna get sick.

Mark Ledlow:

And then the other challenges, too, a lot of corporations are demanding that people

Mark Ledlow:

are vaccine, um, given that vaccine card.

Mark Ledlow:

And so a lot of people said, no, no things.

Mark Ledlow:

I don't want the vaccine.

Mark Ledlow:

So now we have the vaccine issue app, proving you have a shot.

Mark Ledlow:

They don't want the shot because they had their free choice.

Mark Ledlow:

And so that's, we're running into that for manpower.

Mark Ledlow:

And it's, uh, I think all the, you know, all the companies come choose from the

Mark Ledlow:

same pool of male and female EP agents.

Mark Ledlow:

They're all, you know, and then the, you know, the highest bidders gonna get the,

Mark Ledlow:

you know, the winning contract and then they're gonna pay the guards, what their,

Mark Ledlow:

you know, what that market value is worth.

Mark Ledlow:

But as far as going back to your original question, I think

Mark Ledlow:

is gonna be the one stop shop.

Mark Ledlow:

What, whoever that COSO can call.

Mark Ledlow:

And get services rendered for a quality price.

Mark Ledlow:

He's gonna go to them every time.

Mark Ledlow:

And I think it's gonna be up to these, you know, big companies, you know, we

Mark Ledlow:

have, I don't want any names on your program, but we know who they are.

Mark Ledlow:

Can they continue to deliver white glove service to these CSOs and youth corporate?

Mark Ledlow:

I don't know.

Mark Ledlow:

I think things will be changing, evolving, because cyber is rapidly

Mark Ledlow:

changing and we always have ongoing new risks, you know, something's happen.

Mark Ledlow:

Every day around the world.

Mark Ledlow:

So that's kind of my thoughts on that.

Phelim:

so, so we could see the one stop shop or we could see the value added

Phelim:

reseller network stop shop, where, uh, you know, and so maybe that's a good question.

Phelim:

Let's say Patrick, let's say there's a predominantly tech

Phelim:

based company that thinks, do you know what I need travel risk.

Phelim:

I need.

Phelim:

International cargo risk, you know, what should they know before approaching such

Phelim:

a provider to, to form a relationship?

Patrick Kane:

Yeah, I think there's a mix.

Patrick Kane:

I think you could argue either side of it.

Patrick Kane:

I mean, I do agree that there's value to having a one single

Patrick Kane:

point of contact, right?

Patrick Kane:

I mean, from administrative stand.

Patrick Kane:

Invoicing all sorts of other things at the same time.

Patrick Kane:

I think we can, we can also agree that there's a degree of

Patrick Kane:

specialization in these things.

Patrick Kane:

And sometimes the group that tries to be all things to all

Patrick Kane:

people, uh, is gonna fail.

Patrick Kane:

So I think a lot of it's gonna be about subcontracting and strategic

Patrick Kane:

partnering and somebody like, for example, mark, having a good

Patrick Kane:

partner on the cyber side, he can.

Patrick Kane:

When he has a client, who's got that interest.

Patrick Kane:

Right.

Patrick Kane:

So, so he doesn't have to take that on himself or try to learn that, you know,

Patrick Kane:

he and I, we both come from a background where we started off or whatever shooting

Patrick Kane:

guns, or smashing things, breaking things, but we have to know that there's

Patrick Kane:

other things out there beyond that.

Patrick Kane:

And we have to know the people we can call when the issue is an it issue.

Patrick Kane:

And I think to your, your point about the pen testing, I mean,

Patrick Kane:

I think that's one of the things the cyber world is excellent at.

Patrick Kane:

And the question I have is why does it stop there?

Patrick Kane:

I mean, why are we not looking at everything on the physical side

Patrick Kane:

as well from that adversarial, uh, aspect or perspective?

Patrick Kane:

So I think ultimately the idea is you still need to have special.

Patrick Kane:

But maybe, um, through like strategic partnerships and subcontracting

Patrick Kane:

and so forth, you can provide both a single, single contact point and

Patrick Kane:

the expertise at the same time.

Phelim:

So maybe if we, if we draw some strings from all the things

Phelim:

we've been talking about today, maybe.

Phelim:

Okay.

Phelim:

So it's often said, oh no, uh, you wouldn't start off as an

Phelim:

oncologist and then become a GP.

Phelim:

And I, and that's what I don't think using a medical analogy is a good

Phelim:

thing with security because you, you have people who, who, who have been

Phelim:

in the special forces, it's their job and security is a second job for them.

Phelim:

It's not like that's the preparation course.

Phelim:

It's the way in which people enter into the system.

Phelim:

So we're not gonna get away from that.

Phelim:

But could we rather say that eventually we will see people.

Phelim:

Progress to a risk manager, not in an actuarial sense, not like the insurers

Phelim:

that that's their, that's their spiel.

Phelim:

That that's what they do.

Phelim:

But, but do you think as much as an EPA agent might gravitate towards

Phelim:

becoming a consultant and therefore an advisor that's the real convergence,

Phelim:

because you'll find yourself as a risk manager, perhaps among people who

Phelim:

have, who used to be in cyber mark.

Phelim:

Is that a possible future?

Mark Ledlow:

Yeah, I think that's where we're heading.

Mark Ledlow:

I mean, we have to look at, I mean, our biggest employers are corporate.

Mark Ledlow:

And that special forces guy, Al military guy or gal, they need to be

Mark Ledlow:

able to blend in that corporate culture and accept the corporate culture.

Mark Ledlow:

You just can't be, uh, a special forces Navy seal, and jump in with

Mark Ledlow:

random example, let's call it Intel.

Mark Ledlow:

And all of a sudden you have a job because you're a special forces.

Mark Ledlow:

You have to be able to blend in with that corporate culture.

Mark Ledlow:

And that corporate culture may be a little bit different from the military culture.

Mark Ledlow:

And I think that's, um, that's the, the changes in the ships we're seeing

Mark Ledlow:

right now in the industry is, uh, corporations are wanting people with

Mark Ledlow:

medical training and they want people that are, you know, risk adverse.

Mark Ledlow:

How, how are you gonna save me risk?

Mark Ledlow:

Are you a good report writer on threat or threat assessment and risk assessment?

Mark Ledlow:

When I go out and do a detail overseas, I had one, uh, senior level, uh, EP manager.

Mark Ledlow:

I'm not gonna name names, but that person asked me, um, the biggest, she told me

Mark Ledlow:

the biggest concern she has is a lot.

Mark Ledlow:

These EP agents don't know how to write reports.

Mark Ledlow:

They don't know, they know the hard skills, they know the soft skills,

Mark Ledlow:

but they don't know how to write a risk assessment or threat assessment.

Mark Ledlow:

And that's just part of the game.

Mark Ledlow:

That's one component of security and we have to also be, uh, aware,

Mark Ledlow:

not only are we into security, but now we're into safety safety.

Mark Ledlow:

As in we have diseases running around, are you.

Mark Ledlow:

Are you versed in OSHA disease, compliancy, stuff like that.

Mark Ledlow:

Are you into that?

Mark Ledlow:

And I think we're so used to shooting and moving and grieving and ex

Mark Ledlow:

getting our principal off the X.

Mark Ledlow:

There's a whole different expectations that corporations

Mark Ledlow:

have for their security program.

Mark Ledlow:

Yeah.

Mark Ledlow:

They may be called a risk mitigation guy or gal, but I think that terminology

Mark Ledlow:

to be accepted by corporate cultures changing too, they just don't

Mark Ledlow:

want you to be the EP guy for gal.

Mark Ledlow:

They want you to.

Mark Ledlow:

A more broader experience on a more world view of how their corporation works.

Mark Ledlow:

Cuz when you sit down on an interview and you're a vendor, they're

Mark Ledlow:

the first thing they're ask you.

Mark Ledlow:

What do you know about my company?

Mark Ledlow:

Oh, I don't know anything about your company.

Mark Ledlow:

I'm just a, I'm just a military guy.

Mark Ledlow:

What do you know about what is our mission?

Mark Ledlow:

What do we do?

Mark Ledlow:

What do we make?

Mark Ledlow:

And if you're a vendor, if you can answer that question, you

Mark Ledlow:

need, you need to sharpen your ax.

Mark Ledlow:

You need to sharpen your pistol and go to go study, go to work and find out

Mark Ledlow:

what are you doing in this industry?

Mark Ledlow:

Yeah.

Mark Ledlow:

This industry can be very lucrative and the money can be there.

Mark Ledlow:

You need to know more about your client than just, uh, yourself.

Mark Ledlow:

You need to study your client inside and out to find out where the risks are.

Mark Ledlow:

It's a great, great question.

Phelim:

Well then hopefully that's a good note to finish on because I think the risk

Phelim:

manager of the future is more accessible.

Phelim:

Isn't it?

Phelim:

It's just better as a trusted advisor, that terminology works across cyber.

Phelim:

It works across physical and yeah.

Phelim:

Value added reseller that works across physical that works across cyber.

Phelim:

And, and it just takes the sting out of the alien nature of some other people

Phelim:

and you know, people in cyber, you need to understand that even within

Phelim:

physical security, there's different, uh, communities that don't know each other,

Phelim:

like the loss prevention community.

Phelim:

Do not talk so much to executive protection.

Phelim:

Um, the gambling, uh, security community, very, very tight knit, uh, group.

Phelim:

Uh, don't talk so much to the healthcare security group.

Phelim:

Uh, don't talk to the maritime security group.

Phelim:

You know, it, it's not, it's not like alien, group are, are, are unusual.

Phelim:

They exist everywhere.

Phelim:

So perhaps by having a risk manager, a mindset, we can.

Phelim:

Or at least that's my hope.

Phelim:

Hope

Mark Ledlow:

so

Phelim:

oh, well, well, mark and Patrick, thanks for coming on let's give you

Phelim:

a big virtual rental applause of all.

Phelim:

Thank you.

Phelim:

Thanks.