This episode of Spirits and Stories with Donald Dunn explores the often-unspoken realities of military service and the transition to civilian life through the story of Paul, a veteran who joined the military for practical reasons rather than idealism. He reflects on the motivations that led him to enlist, the financial decisions many young service members face, and the lessons learned through experience, mistakes, and growth.

Through candid and often humorous stories, the conversation examines how military life shapes identity, accountability, and resilience—and how those traits carry over into life after the uniform comes off. The episode also touches on the challenges of adapting to civilian roles, the pressure to appear successful despite personal struggles, and the different paths veterans take as they rebuild purpose and direction, including entrepreneurship.

At its core, this episode is about identity, adaptation, and the human side of life after service.

Takeaways

Many service members enlist for practical or financial reasons rather than patriotism alone.

Young soldiers often struggle with financial responsibility early in their careers.

Military service builds accountability and leadership, but those skills must be adapted for civilian life.

Transitioning out of the military can be challenging and disorienting.

Veterans often find new purpose by applying their experience to business, creativity, or entrepreneurship.

Links

nashvilleadventures.com

Companies mentioned

Singular

Amazon

Nashville Adventures

All right.

Hey Paul, welcome to the show, man.

Looking forward and it's great to be here, brother.

Yeah, man.

So, so why don't we dig into a little bit of your military career and, and start with what brought you to the military.

Oh, man, I tell you what got me in the military was money.

I ain't the first one to say it, but I got in six years after nine, 11.

So as you and I both know, the military is built on these six year contracts.

Everyone goes back.

A lot of folks go to Afghanistan.

A ton of people go to that big Iraq push in March of 03, and then everyone gets the out.

Well, the army was given money like it was no one's deal.

An 18 year old me who was not inherently patriotic at this time discovered that, hey, this is, this is a quick jump to the middle class and you know, let's go.

And so I enlisted as a forward observer because I remember because when I got in there, the recruiter gave you all these different jobs.

And then he goes, this is a job where you point and blows up.

And I go, that sounds cool.

That's like a million dollars.

Yeah, that's what I got in, brother.

And I tell you, I spent through that money so goddamn quick.

Just that's, you know, as you know, you went in, you were in for much longer than I was.

You have seen every year kids blow through their bonus.

You have seen it firsthand.

I was that kid.

Yeah.

You know, I remember as, as an nco, you would see these, these kids showing up in like Escalades and.

Oh yeah, and then you walk in their barracks room and they're like sitting on a milk crate with a, a 10 inch TV because their car payment takes.

And then they're in the field for like a month at a time and that thing's just collecting dust and then everyone wants a ride with you.

Yeah.

And then all of a sudden you become the chauffeur for other drunk soldiers.

And it's a recipe for disaster.

It truly is.

Yeah.

And, and then good comes from that.

And then you decide what I need a tv.

So.

So you go get that.

At that time we called it the DPP program, the dumb private program where you could get things on credit from the PX and you know, with your star card.

With your star card, Yep.

And then, then it ended up with a, an appointment with the commander because you didn't pay the bill.

And it was just an endless circle, man, you know.

Oh, Donald, I gotta ask.

So you told me you got in at 94.

Yep.

I have heard legends of the bounced check army.

Oh, yeah.

People would do.

And if you bounce the check, so especially if it was near, like on this was not my time, but around the post, they would call and someone would get their ass lit up for bouncing a check.

And that apparently was quite often.

Yes.

Oh, man.

So I had a soldier.

Yeah, I'm not going to mention his name because he's, I assume he's still alive, but he didn't die from combat.

We, we put him out of the military, but.

Failure to adapt or whatever it was.

Yeah, I mean, I, I knew he was a liar from, I don't know, 10 seconds after I met him, you know?

Yeah.

And he told me that his sister was the first Navy seal.

First female Navy seal.

GI Jane herself.

Yep.

GI Jane herself.

Which at that time, you know, women, you know, were not allowed in any.

Combat, was not a thing.

So, you know, I was like, well, that's interesting.

And then he's like 19, but he was Master ASC certified.

And I was like, wow, okay.

And so life goes on.

We continue.

You know, I just listened to this kid and, and next thing I know, you know, he, he'd said he had to go back home because his fiance had a miscarriage.

Well, we didn't look into it.

He came back and he told us that his dad was a colonel.

Come to find out, he was adopted and his dad was actually the sheriff of their community.

Never served in the military.

So I don't even know why he felt he had to lie about that, but he did.

And we know this because as the bad check started rolling in, we, we called him.

Oh, how about check books, plural?

Not even like a few checks.

No, no.

So I, I, I help him get his, his pay put into a different bank account.

So he's at least not, you know, money.

I mean, he's negative 3 or $4,000 in, in his other account.

Jesus.

And I'm working with that bank to try to help him get a budget and get all this fixed.

And so at that point, you know, my new job becomes.

I'm going to drive you around and pay your bills and watch you do it to make sure that they got paid.

So I take him to back.

This is when Singular was a, a cell company.

So it tells you it was a minute ago.

And so I take him into there to pay his cell Phone bill.

And the lady says, which, which cell phone bill are you here to pay?

And I, I looked at him, I said, how many cell phone bills do you have?

And she said, well, there's one for $175.

I said, that's the one we're here to pay.

And she said, the other one is like four, two hundred dollars.

And I was like, looked at him, I said, how the hell do you have a self.

Turns out that was his dad's account that he had put him on and he never bothered to change like locations or anything.

So every phone call was roaming.

That was when roaming was back when.

That was the thing.

Yeah, yeah.

And so, yeah, he had this huge ass bill that he stuck with his dad that his dad didn't pay.

And so, you know, I'm talking with the bank and I run out of, you know, I had him bring his checkbooks in.

I ran out of check numbers and the, the bank goes, are you ready to go to the next book?

I said, the next book?

And she said, yeah, there's like three more books of.

Is this kid next to you the entire time?

Oh, yeah, yeah, man.

He didn't care.

Like, like literally every day was just an adventure with him.

You know, he would like quit showing up for pt.

So, so we would, you know, we would run as a platoon to the barracks and stand outside.

Was he in the Bear?

Oh, so he was in the barracks too.

Oh, and I would have to go up and wake him up and, and bring him out and I mean, man.

You know, I tell you, there's, there's a lot of things I miss.

That sure.

Is that babysitting ain't one of them.

Yeah, like that is.

Oh my God.

You know, it's.

We watch all these great movies about, you know, the specialist who does incredible and all that stuff.

No one tells you how up John Q 18 year old Joe is.

Yeah, that is a, that is a TV show that needs to be happening.

Yeah.

Oh, I'm telling you, that's what.

That was the main reason why I retired.

I was like, I'm done, man.

I get it.

The kids, you know, the last kid that I put on the military, our company commander got in trouble and the battalion commander for his punishment said, hey, you're going to interview every single soldier in your, your company and then you're going to come back and tell me about them and, and explain what is this?

What this poor old captain do you.

Oh, dude, yeah, he, he ended up getting chaptered.

Yeah.

Literally.03.

Yeah, yeah, he's up during deployment.

So you were the E8 with him.

I was E6 at the time.

And.

Oh, you were all in that.

Oh, God.

So I brought this kid to him.

His name was Thompson.

And he asked the kid, he said, uh, he said, so.

So, Private Thompson, what.

What brought you to the military?

This kid did not hesitate, man.

He looked at him, he said, call of Duty, sir.

And the.

The commander said, well, I get that you probably had sign.

Sign up and.

And serve and.

And you wanted to do something for your country.

So I. I felt.

You.

You.

You felt.

Yep, the video game.

And.

And this kid had the dumbest look on his face, man.

He looked at me, and I looked at the commander.

I said, sir, I think he's talking about the video game.

And the kid goes, yes, sir.

I thought it was going to be like Call of Duty, the video game, but it's not.

Can you chapter me?

Damn.

Yeah, damn.

That's how that command.

That commander dude actually was the only.

He had a few records with me, man.

He's the only officer I ever see that got a letter of.

A general letter of reprimand from ntc.

That was interesting.

Damn.

He got a gomar from the national truck.

Holy.

Because.

Well, he was standing at our.

Because miles.

Gear wasn't perfect.

Oh, no, Even.

Even worse.

We were.

So we were in the box.

But where we were set up at, there was a highway that ran in front that was, you know, a legitimate highway.

You know, civilians are on that highway, but that's where our.

Our ECP was, was just off that road.

And so the.

The guy's sitting at the front gate, and the commander's up there, and this car is driving down.

And the commander looks at the.

The kid and he said, that car's not stopping.

What are you gonna do?

And he goes, this is.

This is natural training center at an entry control point off a highway.

Yep.

Okay.

And.

And the.

The kid looks at me, says, sir, that's just a public highway.

And he said, that car is coming towards our road.

What are you gonna do?

You.

You better light it up.

And so the kid did.

With a.50 cal that had blanks in it.

Just so happened to be the general secretary, civilian female who damn near wrecked when that 50 cal went off.

Not gonna lie to you.

This is my new favorite story.

Oh, my God, I love that.

So, yeah, he got.

So is this a GS?

Is this a civilian too?

Like a GS, like seven or whatever?

Yeah, she was a GS civilian girl.

Yep.

I mean, I. I bet you.

I bet you she pissed her pants.

No way.

Oh, I'll be.

I'd be honest.

I wouldn't blame her.

Yeah.

I mean, she's going on the ECP in her Acura and some kids.

Yeah.50 cal on the.

That M2 Browning is about trying to hurt fake feelings with his fake rounds at this poor lady.

Yeah.

And that's exactly what happened.

So.

So then we deploy after that.

And this was the old man secretary too?

Yeah, yeah.

The.

The whole post.

General commander right there.

Oh, the post.

Yeah.

Did he have a conversation directly?

Oh, yeah, three.

Were you privy to that?

I would love to know how that conversation was.

No, that was if I.

That would.

Where you'd see soldier me like, jerking off in the background.

Loving this.

I would be that guy.

Like, this is the greatest moment of my life observing this.

I would love this.

Nobody liked him.

His.

His name was.

Was like Dosh or Dorsh or something like that.

It's way too close.

Yeah, we.

We all called him Captain Douche.

I mean, that was just his name, man.

And so what.

What NCO up.

His whole relationship with the army that were.

That.

Well, I can tell you the.

That first seren I was talking about, who was with me on this show, he was the one that.

That ended up getting him relieved.

Love it.

Never Power of a pissed off ea.

That's the goddamn truth.

He made a bunch of like, sexual harassment.

Like.

Like when they were picking.

What years was this around?

So this was right there before my retirement.

Oh, no go time frame.

That ain't tolerated.

No, that.

That's.

This ain't 96 that that time frame ended.

Oh, yeah.

So they were going to Afghanistan and.

Which is where he got relieved from.

And he got relieved in theater.

In theater, yeah.

What the.

Wow.

So, like, relieve relief.

Not assistant to the assistant as in your.

Your company XO is now your company commander.

You are going to be on the next plane headed back to the States and we will.

Change of command.

No adjutant.

Walk.

Just go.

Just go.

Just go back and.

And start clearing.

Because they chaptered him.

No slow flag handoff thing.

Get out.

No.

That's incredible.

Nothing.

Nothing.

As a matter of fact, like, soldiers was like, one day he's in front of the soldiers, and the next day there's this single bar.

They're like.

So where was.

Where was this in oef?

This would have been in flag pole.

Area or far away from it.

No, this.

They were in like, Kandahar area.

So it was flagpole area.

Oh, gotcha.

So that Means that everyone can kind of like, watch him depart.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

I mean, it took no time for him.

You know, once he got on a plane, everybody knew.

And.

And when he got back, I was on Rear B because I was.

I was close to retirement, so I had all of it.

I never seen him, like, he came back.

We knew he was coming back.

He came to you stage side.

Conan.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He was supposed to work in the S3, but the, the S shops was like, just, no, just clear.

We don't even want you around here because it's just going to create problems.

And so you can work with the frg, sir.

Yeah.

And what he did was he made comments like, know we're going to combat.

We can't be taking a lot of women with us.

And, you know, like, publicly.

Publicly.

As a matter of fact, he said it to a female E7 who was also the EO.

So, I mean, I don't know how.

Dumb you had to be, but that's Darwinism, buddy.

That's Army Darwinism.

He was not.

I'm surprised he made it that far.

I'll be honest.

I am, too.

I, I, Yeah, he was, he wasn't.

Recognized earlier as an xo.

Like, this guy needs to go.

Yeah.

He came to us as a captain, and, like, even I knew it was gonna be problems, even during his chain of command inventories and because, I mean, he was just idiotic, you know?

Like, he's.

He's measuring with the screwdrivers.

Oh, this is not a number two.

This is a number one.

You can't count that.

And so, I mean, he was, like, trying to stick the old commander, which he did for, like, $30,000.

Yeah.

That poor first sergeant.

Oh, he must have hated him.

He did.

He did.

And I tell you, you've seen this as I.

There is nothing, there is no team that is more powerful than O3 and E8 in sync with one another.

Oh, my God.

That.

That is.

That is.

That is like 12 great leaders and two people.

Boom.

If you had that, there ain't nothing worse than when he, oh, three hate each other.

There is nothing worse than that.

Because even though they try to hide it, everyone fucking knows.

Oh, yeah, yeah, dude.

I mean, everyone right there before their deployments, man, this guy was like, he was just destroying morale.

You know, he would.

Every Friday, he would come out there and he would tell the soldiers, you know, hey, y' all can go NCOs.

You're going to stay.

And since you didn't want to make the soldiers clean, well, you're going to stay here and clean, you know, and.

What he already.

Like soda cans inside Humvees.

Like inside where the BII and goes.

You know, this is just.

Just to him on, like, they didn't follow through PMCs, like, is that like.

No, like to.

Like we weren't going around cleaning out the vehicles and making them spotless.

And, you know.

Well, I sent a guy out there at 11 o' clock to.

To start going through each of their vehicles, you know.

You know, and I remember, like, one day I walk.

I walked into the first sergeant's office, man, and I was in the motor pool and the platoons.

Our platoon sergeant, another E6, comes to me and he says, hey, you know we're staying again, right?

I said, the.

I am.

I. I walked into the first guard's office, I threw my hat against the wall.

I said, I'm gonna tell you something.

I said, if he holds this formation and he releases those soldiers and tells us we're gonna stay here and clean, I'm walking the out with them.

Amen.

He said, oh, really?

I said, I'm done playing these games.

Yeah.

I said, I've got guys down there, I'm doing services and working them through lunch.

We're coming in early, skipping PT and trying to get these vehicles ready for deployments.

And you're going to keep me because he hit a soda can and a Humvee.

I said, I'm done.

I tell you, that is.

That is where the E8 needs to step in.

Oh, he did lay down the law.

And if that doesn't work.

Sorry.

Hey, buddy.

Sorry.

Major, I think you need to have this conversation with the old man.

Like, that's.

That is.

Because that is.

I tell you, I hate that.

Like, it's.

I've been out for a while hearing this.

Like, it just.

I just.

There's so much unnecessary that I'm like.

The easiest guy to get along with.

Too easy.

Same here.

Same here, brother.

But I tell you, the army has a way of ruining the most fun things in the world.

And then things that you thought would be miserable.

Your love that you're doing because you just get to sit down and relax.

I knew it was time for me to get out when I hated going to the range and I loved it when I had a PowerPoint because I could sit down and zone the out.

Like, I knew then it's like, oh, I should probably get out now.

This is.

This is.

That feel.

This is like my whole metric is messed up now.

Like, whereas I got in to Go, you know, shoot guns and do cool.

Now I can't stand going to the range, and I want to sit down in a PowerPoint because I can fake taking a nap because I had the transition glasses that turned dark.

Yeah, man.

If I did everything, if I did things right, I could do this, and everyone think I was awake.

Yep.

I could relate, man.

You know, I would find myself driving to work for, for pt, and I'm like, I just wish a deer had run out in front of me.

Let me hit this deer so I have a reason not to show up for two days.

Do you remember, like, you had to get a motorcycle.

You had to think, like, this obnoxiously long class.

Yeah.

And I think.

And I think the only reason they did that is ain't no soldier gonna put a helmet on if they don't have to.

Because soldiers, especially five year, five, year six, you know, year 11, year 12, year 16, they're like, looking for an excuse.

Oh, yeah, dude, let me tell you how bad it got, right?

Every weekend, I had to call every single one of my squad leaders who had to call every single one of their soldiers every day.

So Saturday morning, Sunday morning, and say, what are you doing today?

Are you drinking today?

Do you have a plan?

Right?

And then they would have to report back to me.

I would then have to call the first art, give him my status, who then had to call this armed major for the company and say, we're good.

Everybody's got a plan, dude.

That same kid would never return phone calls.

He wouldn't answer phone calls.

Nothing, right?

So I told the squad there, I said, don't worry.

I said, I got it.

And I showed up.

Yep, I showed up at his door.

Yeah, he was off post.

He, I, I called from his.

His driveway, and when he didn't answer the phone, I walked to his door and knocked on it, right?

And I told him, I said, you're no longer going to respond to your.

Your squad leader.

I said, you're gonna deal with me now.

I said, and I'm gonna tell you something.

I said, you miss a phone call, you don't call me.

I said, you're gonna go back to E0 and his wife pregnant, right?

And her eyes got this damn big.

And so I, I said, but don't worry about it.

You're.

You're going to get to see Georgia.

You're going to see all sorts of cool.

And he's like, what do you mean?

So I would tell him, like, I would call him at, like, in the morning time Bright and early and say hey, you need to drive to the lighthouse at Tybee island, stand in front of it, take a picture of yourself, record your plan and send it to me.

And for like the next two weeks he.

He was all over Georgia.

I sent him to Brunswick island all over the place.

You know.

I re.

But I remember because the at least my memory it could have changed.

I could be thinking wrong.

But there was a time when the of the army was matched with only tolerable thing.

Was that that fun you got to do.

Like I especially when it came to Joe's.

Like I remember.

Like I remember the that occurred that you could not do anywhere else.

And that's what made it worth it.

And I remember the you could say the things you could do was just a special aspect of the job that made everything else worth it.

At least you know when you're young and dumb.

And I remember the rhetoric especially the games and ncos would play with up Joes that if I told people that they wouldn't believe me.

Like I remember there was like before and this is off color so feel free to take this off Donald if you need to.

But I remember like before the suicide craziness because we all know soldiers who have done this but there was a time where this didn't really happen.

Yeah.

And but soldiers would still sometimes you know say dumb.

You know hey first starting I'm thinking about doing this and first arm be like let me show you how to make a noose knot.

If you do it go do it in the woods and do it to where it's not a mess and that and inside of my time that completely shifted.

And I think what happened with that is that when that occurred all of a sudden the teeth of what made the NCO world special which to be honest with you was the embracement of this behind closed doors this lack of pen and paper reality enforcing doctrine that'll also and create a culture of acceptance if you're willing to tolerate which the army is And I think that's gone.

And so like stories like that.

You know I don't think you could do that now.

No.

So I think it's kind of unfortunate.

It got it got to the point man the old days where you could take that same soldier like what I was telling you about and put enough pain on him that you didn't have to ruin his career.

You didn't have to fill a full Bunch of paperwork.

Maybe you gave him a company article 15 that went away when he left.

Yeah.

That disappeared when he pieces.

Yeah.

You know, but at the end of the day, push ups and pain and you know, hazing, whatever, it would make great leaders eventually down the road or they would do their time and get out, you know.

And I am not special in this, but I remember carrying a plant because I was wasting oxygen because I would say a dumb thing.

I remember soldiers carrying a big clock because they were late.

I remember that.

I mean, this was not a unique experience.

This was a relatively common thing in my time.

I don't think that happens anymore.

I think the pin gets out of the ACUs shows my age there, but I think the pin comes out of the ACUS too quick.

Instead of NCOs just destroying a soldier for three days and then he immediately comes better versus a counseling statement with teeth on it that could be honest with you up a whole 19 year old's life.

Yeah.

And you could, you could potentially lose a, a good leader down the road, you know.

That quick.

Yeah, that quick.

And I remember the first time I got in trouble, I had a kid that just wouldn't shave.

And so I made him take a disposable razor and I drilled a hole through the, the end of it and made him wear it on his dog tags.

And then I love it, love it.

Every, every day he had to shave.

Every hour, every hour he was at work and jag.

I got in trouble because they said I was hazing.

And I was like, well, it seems like the punishment fits the crime.

I don't know about hazing.

And they were like, yeah, but you're, you're making him wear something around his neck and it's, it's, it's, it's humiliating him and, and demoralizing him and, and I'm like, so I should just write article 15s and eventually chapter this kid.

Yeah.

So I should.

Every.

I also, this is my hot take as well.

There was also a, like a humor in this, even if it was in your direction.

Like when I up and I up all the time when I, I was.

Yeah, that was me.

Yeah.

You know, like I'm wearing this clock because I'm late.

You know, like you embrace the ridicule.

Yeah.

That really is that thick skin that's going to help you get that ass chewing when you're that E6 and you basically get an ass chewing for a living.

Like, you know, people think being a Joe's hard.

People don't realize like you're getting yelled at for.

It's not even your fault.

Like, yeah, that's your life.

Oh, yeah, dude.

I remember my first NCO as a private.

My first duty station was Korea.

So you know you got juice, huh?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I remember the first time I showed up drunk.

You know, had I done that later?

Oh, my God, dude.

My career had been over.

Instead, I probably was the first drunk crab walking dude in the world.

I mean, crab walk the.

Get out of me.

You know, you could smell alcohol coming out of me, you know?

And this.

This dude smoked the hell out of me all the.

From day one.

He had one of those eyes that was like, I'm gonna check out over here while he's got one eye.

He comes day one.

Never met this guy.

He comes walking towards me and he.

He's like, why are you wearing your hat?

And I'm looking like this, like, who the is he talking to?

Did he smoke the out of me because he thought I was making fun of me?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, I missed those days, man.

That was.

Was when it was fun, you know?

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I was the guy.

I absolutely.

And I remember I would even do things that was not really bad, but I would do it to bring some humor into the room.

And I knew I'd get punished for it, you know, like, you know, I would.

Back in the day, they used to have these stupid lanyards that you could put your cack in.

Yeah.

And I would wear it.

And I.

You and every nco, like when I was a Joe was like, oh, what the is that?

Get rid of that.

You know, like, that was a whole thing.

So I would wear it all the time.

Yep.

I was never a bad soldier, but I was 19, I was 18.

And I remember, like, what the is that?

And I go, I believe that's called a lander.

Which was me just up, you know, being, you know, nothing heinous.

And that was something.

And he knew it.

I knew it.

And I love this guy.

And he's still my friend to this day.

I wish that was still in the army because when you.

In our era, there were times where you went from tradoc land to a unit and you in the war with them, like, weeks later.

And nothing efficiently builds camaraderie.

Nothing builds quicker.

A culture that you feel like you're a part of.

I hate to say it.

Then those little bit of games.

Yeah, I wish that was still around because I can't imagine going into an office environment and having that office culture in the army before I go to war.

I'm glad I did not have that.

Yeah, man, I, I had squad leaders, you know, young squad leaders.

You know, during.

After 9, 11 people got promoted fast and.

Oh, buddy, you're looking at.

I got promoted way too damn fast.

Yeah, some of these guys were really young and, and.

Yeah, ridiculous.

Should have never been the case.

I would, I would, I would have to remind them, hey, you know that guy you keep with, it won't be too much longer and he's gonna have live rounds.

I'm just, Just reminding you, you know.

And, and you and I both know there are some people who get, who get access to things and you wonder about their mental abilities to function.

Dude, it happened in our unit.

We had, we had a couple.

You know, this is Fallujah.

So this is late.

Late.

Like literally like First Battle of Fallujah.

Like.

Like we're getting ready to hand it over to the Iraqis.

You know, Iraqis were already living there and at that time was a.

The size.

You know, we.

We occupy the size of like a football field.

So it was tight.

I mean, there was no privacy anywhere.

People were living in three or four people to a room.

And these two soldiers complained that their roommate was living like a pig.

And which happens.

It does.

You know, one or two.

Yeah, the squad leader goes in there and sees that there's a bunch of MRE rappers underneath the kid's bunk and, and all that, so he decides to play around.

You know, he said he told the other two guys, hey, you guys leave?

And he made him empty that room, Clean the whole room and put it back.

Nothing different than what I would have done years ago.

I don't.

Yeah, non.

Non issue.

Yeah, he.

He walked back like a couple hours later and walked in that room to see if the guy was done.

Everything was in the room.

Kid was sitting on the bunk.

E5 walks into the door.

The kid put two rounds in him, killed him.

Jesus.

Jesus Christ.

Over just control paradigm, huh?

Yeah.

Piss poor living conditions, mental stability.

I don't know what it was.

I didn't even know the kid that did it.

It was in one of our, our line companies, so.

And I gotta tell you and I both know when I hear that story, I think of the amount of that came afterwards.

Oh, the amount of that?

The amount of.

Yeah.

God, that.

Just because someone just broke mentally.

Yeah, we had a.

How do you tell somebody, family that they were killed.

You know, by another soldier?

I mean, that's.

Yeah, we Had a.

We had a guy who didn't shower, won't say his name.

But.

And we found out you could get.

There's a DSN number for like prison powder soap.

I believe it.

Yeah.

But we've taken us out back and throw this powder soap at his ass.

And this dude was a big dude.

He.

I don't like.

He.

He must have.

He might have passed height and weight if he was 9 foot 3 or something.

But he was a big dude and it was just game on.

On him.

And we just threw all this like stuff on him and literally got a hose.

I mean, like, it was bad.

I mean, the optics of this you.

Yeah.

Bad.

But back then it's different army.

And we were far enough from the flagpole you can get away with this a little bit.

And I. I look back on that and again the stories you can't tell people.

But we also had a guy.

We've had a.

Numerous folks fake suicide.

Like putting around 5, 5, 6 round from light bulb.

I wonder how hot there's got to be for it to go off.

As he's looking at the chaplain, you know, like that kind of.

We know that existed.

And then you got to do suicide watch on that guy.

But we've also.

When we were doing right seat, left seat, the unit that was before us, guy was, you know, trying to.

Steven seagal like his M9 and shot another soldier.

And this was at the end of their deployment.

Yeah.

Like, I.

First of all, I'm not.

I'm.

I'm not for E4s and below having M nights.

That should not be unless you're in your SOF community.

Unless you got like group in your, you know.

Yeah.

Unit's name.

You don't need an M9 as an E4 and below.

And this guy was, you know, being John cool guy and shot his buddy.

And he died right there.

We had a.

A kid in the 160th that shot.

He was around with his gun.

Shot himself in the leg.

Right.

And the company.

The.

The battalion commander told him.

He.

He said.

He said, don't worry about it.

He said, you're gonna.

You're gonna lose your rank.

He said, but I'm not gonna do it until you can stand in front of me.

So he held that damn Article 15 over him for months until.

While this kid, you know, went through rehabilitation and everything, was able to stand without crutches and.

And he did.

He.

He gave him an Article 15, busted him.

I kind of like that.

Yeah.

Because he did him on money and that's already challenging enough.

I. I kind of respect that.

Yeah, yeah, that.

That whole soft community, man, it's a.

It's a whole nother world.

I really like that.

Yeah.

Whereas I was in.

You'd go on like a 18 hour fucking thing where you're in.

This was before the MRAPs and the air conditioned bullshit.

You know, you'd be in these fucking hot ass vehicles for hours and people are barely able to like function.

Like you could hear it on the radio back in the Singar era, you know, people just dying, you know, exhausted.

And you know, you get a guy and he's like an E3 who's been up for 23 hours doing like real work outside the wire.

So his heart is in his chest, his kidneys is in his ass.

I mean like those Humvees bounce enough to begin with, you throw that scare variable at him, you know, round goes off in the barrel.

Now I am all for punishing a kid for a negligent discharge.

And I was in the era where they went and they started calling it negligent discharges.

They used to call it accidental whatever the.

They used to.

Yeah.

But I do believe there's like a 0.1% where you don't.

A kid's career over.

Yeah.

And it bothered me that almost every 04 that did it got a slap on the back.

But Joey 3, who's exhausted, lets a round off and then immediately goes, sorry and fixes it real quick.

Then he finds out the next day he's like, I just rubbed me the wrong way.

Like it's.

Yeah, those gold standards are.

Yeah, it is, it is absolutely crazy.

So let's dive into a little bit about what did, what did you do when you got out?

So I was a crazy.

The army I was at, I went to the Citadel.

I don't know if you ever heard of that.

It's a drink at school.

Military problem.

I went to the Citadel.

But to be honest with you, every year I was in the army was the year I was getting out.

They just dangled new in front of me that I liked and I just stayed a little longer.

Me too.

I got out as soon as I could.

Not gonna bullshit you, I got out.

I was blessed with the opportunity to go work in the uk.

I was a UK parliamentary fellow.

That sounds really dope.

But it really.

It was kind of cool.

Happy to talk about that for a bit.

Then I did humanitarian work in the Republic of Armenia because my deployment, Afghanistan sent me in a different kind of headspace where I was A little bit like, let's try the other end of the world.

Let's go be a hippie.

So I did hippie in the Republic of Armenia for three years.

Had a great time there.

Then I had a horrible job with Amazon.

I did three years at corporate Amazon in New York City with this southern accent.

That was horrible.

Golden handcuffs, man.

That was some good money.

And then after that, started my own business.

Yeah, man.

Shell brother.

So what was your humanitarian work like?

I was a professor of English at Kavar State University.

I work with the Ministry of Education on treat your curriculum.

So a lot like, if you ever did counterinsurgency, like school building and in Afghanistan, anything like that, you notice that they beat the.

Out of students and they just kind of.

That teaching methodology is called teacher centric methodologies.

The Soviet Union was the same way.

So when the Soviet Union turned into the Russian Federation and all their former satellite countries, they still do that method of teaching.

And so our whole thing was like, switch that up.

Make it student centered, not teacher centered.

And that was when USAID was a thing.

That ain't a thing no more.

But it was in my time.

The whole thing was doing that.

And I was in Armenia, so surrounded by all these Kim Kardashians.

Living the dream, brother.

It was nice.

Yeah, man.

Is all the, you know, the.

The human trafficking and all the.

The mob type stuff, you know.

Oh, buddy.

Oh, yeah.

Around.

Oh, yeah.

That there's some die.

There's some credit card fraud in California and that's all like Armenian mafia is definitely.

It's not as big as it used to be.

Yeah, but it was a big thing in the 90s.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

But.

But Armenia, the country is super.

At least it was not as corrupt as it used to be, but was very corrupt.

Oh, yeah.

You.

I got to see some of that firsthand.

That was kind of interesting.

You really start to, you know, when you go and deploy in the army, you bring America with you.

Yeah, especially.

Especially, like when I was in Afghanistan, they literally took away all the McDonald's and everything.

But they used to be bad on post or, excuse me, on.

In the country.

When I was there, it was just green beans and, you know, defects.

But like, I remember Allah.

Saleem still had, though, in Kuwait.

But when I was over there, I was.

It was like the beginning of Borat.

I don't know if you ever saw that.

That's where I lived in.

Was basically like donkeys, you know, dragging old cars.

Like, that was exactly what it was like.

Best three years of my life, brother.

Man, I bet you ain't wrong.

The last time I left Kandahar, you can have a pizza delivered from Pizza Hut to your tent.

No kidding.

No kidding.

I remember when I first got done, where did I fly into?

I think it was Bo.

What?

Disney.

That's right.

Disney's on Bagram.

So I went over to Bagram and I went to Disney and they had a sloop post and they had a, they had a barbecue tent Tuesdays and they had surf and turf Thursdays with actual like seafood and.

Yeah, like.

And Afghanistan, as you know, that's a landlocked country.

They ain't got no.

No.

And so I was just.

I got none of that.

So I remember like, wow, this is really nice.

And they're like, nah, man, you gotta go to the Pizza Hut.

I was like, is this war sign my ass up because I'm rich as.

Because you and I, I was no wife, no kids.

I was rich as like I've never been.

I came home, I was the richest ever been and I got my bonus in country, which even though it was a sign on bonus fund listing, I still had to pay a little bit of tax on it, but I don't think it was the rate that I normally would have paid.

And it was, man, I was rich as fuck, bro.

I was the richest 20 year old that ever lived.

That was a good times, I bet, man.

I bet.

Yeah.

There's some girls who I paid for their medical school when I came home.

I'm sure of it.

I. Yeah, I mean during my military career, I'm sure I put a few strippers through college.

I'm not, I have no doubt that's.

What they told me they needed to pay for med school.

And you know what?

I'm civic minded.

I don't think, I don't think any of my strippers were in med school.

Maybe ged.

Are you saying, are you saying they might have lied to me?

I'm shocked by that.

Are you saying Bubbles was lying to me?

I'm shocked.

Bubbles and Cinnamon would never do that to me.

No, no, no.

They loved you, man.

They loved you long time be for me at least.

For me.

They love me for me.

Yeah.

It wasn't, it wasn't the dances.

It wasn't the dances.

It wasn't the chronic ATM visits with a ten dollar charge on my USAA account.

None of that.

Well, you know, let's, let's dive into your, your business, man, because I know we're getting close to top of the hour.

What?

Let's let's talk a little bit about.

How did that start?

Well, I. I'm a. I don't sound like it.

That's on this podcast, but I'm a huge history guy.

I'm arguably an historian in middle Tennessee.

So what I've done is I created a business that combines all the things I've learned and whatever I've been to.

And the big thing about that is the Army.

And this is really weird thing to say, but it's accurate.

The army gave me the gift that the worst days of my life already happened.

And I interpret that as a gift.

So, hey, man, I've already had like, nothing could be these days.

Like, everything's easy from then on.

And that's a gift as long as you choose to interpret it that way.

I see a lot of people who don't, but I. I choose to, but.

So I had to do a business of the three things I loved, man.

Love history, love public speaking, and I love making money.

That's the God's honest truth, brother.

Combine all three of those.

That's my baby.

That's Nashville Ventures for veteran owned, operated, majority staffed.

We got special forces operators working for us.

We got professors of history at LISCOM working for us.

And it is pound for pound, the best thing I've ever done with my life so far because we get 1% back to veterans nonprofits.

That's operation Standout in Nashville as well as we made a community and leadership scholarship that we're going to give two or three of those out this year.

And it combines all the things that I kind of wish existed when I got out.

Yeah.

And there's one thing I tell you, and you've done it yourself, Donald.

I love it.

You.

You're like, I want to do this, I'm gonna do it.

And you did it.

You got a kick ass podcast.

I wanted to create a place where it was the best of the army without the of the army.

You know, it's a group of dudes together.

We have one lady who was Ada Connie, and she's wonderful.

But you get us all together, we're walking HR nightmares.

You get us.

But when we are all separated, we all have a specificity, a specialization.

I'm the history whiskey guy.

I'm all that, especially for history.

Ben is ghost history.

Connie is our bachelorette whisperer.

And you got Cody, who is probably pound for pound, knows more about country music than anyone I've ever met.

And so all of us together have this great company and we've killed It Hitmaker of the year.

Tennessee general manager of the year.

Just found out we got nationals 40 under 40.

So we're killing it.

And that's only because we embrace the shit that we learned in the army.

Yeah, that's the God's honest truth, man.

Yeah.

I think, you know, that is the one part about the veterans.

I don't care when you came in, when you got out.

It.

It's if you realize that what the army taught you to do was just not give up and, you know, which is a double edged sword.

You know, that's one of the reasons why we do have the problems that we have is they don't know when to quit.

You know, it's, it's, you know, you watch these veterans dig this hole and you say, hey, are you done digging that hole?

And they're like, fucking hold my beer.

I can dig deeper.

You know, I want this to suck more.

Yeah.

And on the other side of that, that same, you know, another guy that says, hey, you know, I'm not, I don't know anything about what I'm about to do, but I'm, I'm gonna, you know, just full send it.

And businesses like yours just become amazing.

You know, podcasts like this.

Yeah.

You know, it was just about the, the too stupid to give up, you know, Amen.

And I'll give another hot take.

Especially when it comes to veterans in business.

I was blessed with the opportunity to speak at the panel at the West Point Entrepreneur Summit in Nashville and all these other events.

And I just wish there wasn't a cult around veterans, entrepreneurship and high ranking individuals.

And God bless that dude, I couldn't have done that.

That's awesome.

But I'd rather get the E4 that got out, started a plumbing business, has nine employees and kids going to school for nothing because daddy can afford it and he's got a four bedroom house that's worth a million dollars.

Yep.

Like, I wish there was a glorification in veteran entrepreneurship circles with veterans who do kick ass businesses.

Yeah, cool stuff, just not in this format.

Show me that E5 who, you know, lays down Cat 4 cable or some and just makes bank doing it.

Like that's.

I, I think we're kind of the vet community is Kind of failing itself with being able to pivot well on the reality that the military gives you a set of skills that makes you unusual, makes you special even.

But the two star who stayed in uniform since he's 18 years old at West Point don't count.

Yeah, yeah.

You take any veteran that got out with an honorable discharge and, and the one thing they're all going to have in common is they can't stand to be considered as they failed.

Yes.

You know, yes.

It literally bothers them.

And when, when I got out, I was not in a, the right place of mind, you know, I was planning and brother, I never even looked for a job.

And I, I kind of dabbled, I guess, but I couldn't find anything.

So I, I started a trucking company.

You know, I love it.

Other than knowing how to work on them, I didn't know about the transportation world, you know, and so I bought a truck, I went straight to a place and leased on hauling chemicals, bulk chemicals, you know, that's money.

Yeah.

Made great money.

I mean, stupid money.

Yeah, because you had the, you had the CDL with that special thing on.

It, Hazmat, whole nine yards, all of that.

Yeah, that's money, you know, and, and when you're hauling things like sulfuric acid and, and chemicals that people have to look like astronauts to deal with, you get paid, you know.

Yeah, stupid money.

Yeah.

And then, you know, you pick some stuff up at the port, you know, I was making 300 an hour to pick up at the port, bring it out, set it down and take an empty back in, you know.

Hey, bro.

Love it.

Insane, you know, and had I been.

Did you get those credentials in the army?

So this is the cool part, right?

I, I did not.

I, I, I got my CDL by using my military license to transfer it over.

They started that program where.

Oh, that, yeah.

That's awesome.

You, if you have your, your company commander or whoever, the, you know, I had that lieutenant that took over for our company commander sign saying that I was good.

But you take this, this format, you give them a copy of your, your military license, the commander signs this waiver form and then you take the written test.

It's two different written tests you take.

And they hand you a cdl.

No, no driving test, no nothing, Right?

Oh, shit.

And the army should have been doing that 30 fucking years ago.

Yeah, absolutely, man.

You know, and, and then the only other thing I did do because I thought I was gonna be a company driver, I wasn't planning on buying a semi truck at that point.

You're smart for doing that though.

Yeah, I. Yeah, I 100, you know, and it was just luck, man.

I was gonna drive team with another One of my NCOs that was underneath me.

And a week before we went to Schneider's school of Hell, he got a letter saying that his license had been suspended for back child support.

And so when I talked to Schneider and found out what I was going to make as a solo driver, I was like, well, I can't even live that.

It's like 500 a week, you know.

So I. I bought a truck and, and went that route and it just worked it.

I did it for six years until Covid hit.

I.

When I left, I was pulling flatbed and I was good at it, man, but I just wasn't mind space.

You're the person that should be giving these speeches, not the two star JSOC who's never filed.

Create an LLC out of nowhere and doesn't know the difference between a C Corp Escort llc.

You're the guy who's been there, done that, happened to get there by luck.

And you can give the information well and authentically about what someone on there about to send in their retirement packet doesn't know.

Yeah, you don't need to work for this person.

Do your own thing.

And if you fail, you can still go work for them.

Like that's still going to be there.

And that's.

I Army does not do a good job.

And us vets don't do a good job of broadcasting that.

Well.

Success is being on the board of Raytheon.

Success.

Yeah, done.

The thing is, is you make just as much as that guy from Raytheon, you know, like you're doing.

You're fucking killing it.

And you don't realize that.

Yeah, I.

When I.

My mom got sick and I was in Georgia when I had that trucking company and then Covid hit and things just got really, really shitty really quick.

Yeah.

So I. I closed my business and I took a job, you know, never other than the military.

I'd never worked for anybody as an adult.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah.

So I took a job in the mining industry.

Corporate America, right?

Yep.

Hated it.

And I left that job and went to another place, Corporate America.

And fucking hated it.

And.

And fate is.

Is what will always set you right.

Right.

It will put you on the path no matter how much you fight it or where you're supposed to be.

And so I got fired from that job.

They didn't like, I guess, my attitude, but jealous of your beard.

That's probably exactly what it was, you know?

You know, the.

And.

And I'm gonna say this because it really does piss me off.

Hey, brother, have you ever noticed that every CEO on their desk has a book wrote by a.

A Navy SEAL talking about leadership?

I can't it, bro.

That's my hill to die on.

I just think immediately less of that person.

Yeah, I do too.

You know, I left that mining company because the CEO handed me a book from that seal and said, you know, you should read.

You should read this book.

It'll teach you about leadership.

And I looked at him and said, I've probably done everything that that seal's done, you know?

Yeah.

So.

Yeah, absolutely, man.

So with your.

With your business, the way it works, how does a customer, you know, they come, and you're taking them on these adventures and explaining what's happening in those areas.

Is that.

Is that how it kind of works, like a touring company?

Absolutely.

Nashville Adventures does history tours, pub crawls, ghost tours, private events, corporate events, Civil war tours, everywhere in between.

We get 1% back.

That's our whole stick.

1% of revenue, not profit.

And we're doing pretty damn good.

You can see us@nashville adventures.com.

and to be honest with you, if you use Music City 15 as a promo code, veterans, if you're active duty, just message us.

We'll put you on any tour you want for nothing.

But if you want to get 15 off your whole family, Music City 15, and we'll take it off right then and there.

Especially if someone's from Fort Campbell.

Even if they're a. Rocasan will take care of them.

Even if they're rockets on them, and we'll take care of them.

Does that discount go to our.

Our new sisters in.

In the field of.

What is it?

What are they called?

Space wars or Space Force?

I don't know.

I. I don't think they.

I think that's fake, man.

I think that's.

That's.

I don't know if that's real.

Yeah, I think that's, you know, Air Force space mission is still part of the Air Force.

I don't know about that.

Yeah, of course, I've never.

I actually, it's funny.

One of my best friends from the Citadel is a major in the Space Force.

Really?

He was in the Air Force in the Space Missile Command.

Nerd stuff.

Nerd sphere.

Which.

Different military, baby.

Different military count as weapons, man.

It's crazy.

And what he shot was like a pistol.

That's the only thing he shot.

Well, you'll have to introduce us, man.

I'd love to have him on the show.

I've never had anybody from Space Force on.

Oh, he's active duty.

I don't know if.

I don't know if he'd be brave enough to do that, to be honest with you.

You might have to wait till he gets out, you know, you can't be as open like we are here when shellac is duty land.

That's true.

Bad.

Well, brother, why don't.

Why don't you tell everybody where they can find you and.

And how they can sign up for some of these tours and.

And learn some awesome stuff?

Yeah, man.

NaturalAdventures.com we look forward to hearing and seeing everybody who wants to join us.

Yeah, go to naturaladventures.com you'll see all the tours we provide, but also we can be found on tours by foot, tours by local via Tour, TripAdvisor, Expedia, any other online travel agency.

You'll find us.

We're the best of what we do.

We look forward to having everyone check us out.

All right, man.

I hope all of y', all, especially if you're in that Nashville area.

So if you're.

You're one of the artists that are on my station, man.

Go check them out and learn a little bit about the history and have a great time and unwind.

I love tours, especially ghost tours.

I took a few in Savannah, so I got kin that are living in Nashville.

So the next time I'm in that area, I'm going to hit you guys up and hit some.

Do not tempt us with a good time.

We'd love to see you, buddy.

Honest to God.

Please do.

Well, I hope all of you all had a good time.

Remember, don't let the day kick your ass.

Kick the day's ass.